VvV - Am I missing something?

[Lore Denin (GL)]

I'm confused when you join VvV you don't actually join Vice or Virtue you just sort of show up and fight whoever is in the town.

I'm on origin so there hasn't been much happening.. So far fighting has consisted of following arrows and standing on an alter where someone is hiding and I can reveal and they run away or I can't. I try to engage in conversation to see A) What side they are on and B) what there intentions are for the town.

Does winning or losing a town have any meaning as far as Vice or Virtue or is this just guild points and getting silver for items. If a Town falls to the clutches of evil what does that mean? If its saved from the impeding darkness by the forces of Virtue what does that mean - Does that even have any bearing on the system? Or is this just random individuals, guilds and groups fighting each other for their own glory and to get silver to buy stuff.

Just want to make sure I am not missing what is suppose to be happening, I've always used my sword to protect Britannia, Virtue and pursue the course of Order. I would like to continue to do so.... In the new system I have no idea how I am suppose too do that?? Can I declare myself as part of Virtue and work with other good guilds and people?...Or do I have to just kill anyone that isn't in my guild or alliance because because I don't know them and that makes them bad people and worth killing?

Hopefully I am just missing something or there is more depth to be added to the system.

Concerned long time Order Guard and Faction member,

-Lore's Player

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

You obviously played factions.
Factions promoted killing and ganking and required you to kill 75% of all faction players regardless if they were good, bad or someone you knew.
What's your point?
Because it sure isn't storyline lol

 

[Tina Small]

I understand completely where Lore Denin is coming from and I am very saddened on his behalf with how things have turned out with VvV. Compared to the role playing that Lore's guild did on Great Lakes and perhaps to a lesser extent on Origin, there is really nothing in VvV to compare. Nothing at all. Kyronix himself explained the other day to someone why there is so little storyline in VvV. http://stratics.com/community/threads/pub-86-vvv-phase-i.321774/

(Goldberg, look up Minocian Partisan Resistance and you will soon find out why Lore is so disappointed. The stories are very well-done. I'm very sad, as I said, that there really is so little structure to this new system to allow a group like his to flourish once again. They are/were a dedicated bunch and I really hope they will find reasons to stick around. They haven't been around so much lately and I for one have missed them quite a bit. It was always good to know that they were still active and having fun. I am not much into role playing myself, but I really enjoyed watching them get into it and especially loved the stories.)

Lore, please hang in there at least for now.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

I understand what you are saying Tina but the flavor of his post was just all wrong imo.
If they are a longtime and dedicated role playing group that is to be commended. But questioning a new system without any real data is wrong and a mistake. As is commending the old faction system as it had degenerated for years into a hot mess that did nothing but dispense uber items and promote ganking and chest thumping.
The new system unfortunately seems to also be along the lines of pixel crack but I will wait and see awhile before I pass judgement.
What I don't understand is why would anyone's roleplaying or seemingly entire UO existence revolve around factions in the first place?
If they haven't been around much why are they so upset btw?

 

[Kyronix]

I'm confused when you join VvV you don't actually join Vice or Virtue you just sort of show up and fight whoever is in the town.

I'm on origin so there hasn't been much happening.. So far fighting has consisted of following arrows and standing on an alter where someone is hiding and I can reveal and they run away or I can't. I try to engage in conversation to see A) What side they are on and B) what there intentions are for the town.

Does winning or losing a town have any meaning as far as Vice or Virtue or is this just guild points and getting silver for items. If a Town falls to the clutches of evil what does that mean? If its saved from the impeding darkness by the forces of Virtue what does that mean - Does that even have any bearing on the system? Or is this just random individuals, guilds and groups fighting each other for their own glory and to get silver to buy stuff.

Just want to make sure I am not missing what is suppose to be happening, I've always used my sword to protect Britannia, Virtue and pursue the course of Order. I would like to continue to do so.... In the new system I have no idea how I am suppose too do that?? Can I declare myself as part of Virtue and work with other good guilds and people?...Or do I have to just kill anyone that isn't in my guild or alliance because because I don't know them and that makes them bad people and worth killing?

Hopefully I am just missing something or there is more depth to be added to the system.

Concerned long time Order Guard and Faction member,

-Lore's Player

Originally we proposed having teams of Vice vs Virtue, much in the way that Chaos and Order worked. This, however, didn't go over well as largely established guilds did not, under any circumstances, want to fight alongside their enemies. Thusly, we decided to allow players to make their own teams in the form of their already existing guilds. Right now, a player is free to return the sigil to either Vice or Virtue, without any consequence for that action. Keep in mind, this is only the first step in a long journey. Our goal was to provide a fast paced, nimble, PvP experience that was easy-in/easy-out...so regardless of whether you are sitting down for just 1 or 2 matches or are digging in for the long haul - there is a fight to be had. As we move forward you'll see some official fiction (some of which has already been posted) about how this great war between Vice vs Virtue started, as well as future tie ins to existing features within VvV to add to some depth while still maintaining the pace. We wanted to leave the role playing side of VvV, for those that wish to participate, open for customization on behalf of the guild.

 

[OREOGL]

Kyronix,, can you show us where that feedback was provided? Or was that part of the focus group. I know whe m I started testing this, there were little to no people on test center. Im confused why we based info on their lack of participation. this continued through to the end of test.

Most of us went into the development thinking this was going to have sides since we are losing factions.

It seems all we did here is take the existing guild PvP system and add arties to it. Im a little disappointed too.

 

[Kyronix]

Kyronix,, can you show us where that feedback was provided? Or was that part of the focus group. I know whe m I started testing this, there were little to no people on test center. Im confused why we based info on their lack of participation. this continued through to the end of test.

Most of us went into the development thinking this was going to have sides since we are losing factions.

It seems all we did here is take the existing guild PvP system and add arties to it. Im a little disappointed too.

You can check out the original "In Concept" thread that was posted last summer. We also received a lot of internal feedback where players were concerned with how traitors (people who join a team just to kill that team) would be dealt with. The solution for these concerns was allowing players to make their own teams in the form of guilds.

 

[Quickblade]

Kyronix,, can you show us where that feedback was provided? Or was that part of the focus group. I know whe m I started testing this, there were little to no people on test center. Im confused why we based info on their lack of participation. this continued through to the end of test.

Most of us went into the development thinking this was going to have sides since we are losing factions.

It seems all we did here is take the existing guild PvP system and add arties to it. Im a little disappointed too.

Yup thats basically what they did, current guilds pvp with a short stat timer ( I heard 2,5 minutes, i heard 5 minutes ) anyway, its guild vs guild like it always been but now, blues can heal factions (vvv) , something they couldnt before , but they will turn orange. So the VvV war winners will be the ones who have the more blues friends..

 

[OREOGL]

You can check out the original "In Concept" threto beach was posted last summer. We also received a lot of internal feedback where players were concerned with how traitors (people who join a team just to kill that team) would be dealt with. The solution for these concerns was allowing players to make their own teams in the form of guilds.

Thanks for the link. I would have just made them guard whackable andflag them as a criminal but to each their own I guess.

But again where were these people in test? though I digress.

 

[kaio]

I did login on TC1, last night,to do some testing.. And im not impressed at all.
To get the free stuff, all you have todo is create a guild, click the join VvV button, on the guild page. And your'e set to go (Very simple and easy..no more running to find some faction stone)
Then you goto Brittan West britt bank trammel, and you have 2k silver you can shop arties and other stuff for.
I got an orny, witch is the same as the original one from doom, except it has +3 mr as a bonus. The insurance cost for this item is 887gc (not so bad really)
Then i got this new wizard hat, was nice..but why on earth does it have 4 DCI, and totally useless resist !?
I did also pick a wand, with +15 magery, SC, and some arcane charges..Very nice..no DCI on it, makes is not so uber..(You can imbue on it..there are some points left)

I think that VvV gear should be like this wand, and the other none-faction gear is like. (make the wizard had have +5 dci, and people would love it..resist is still ****..lol)

Resist paralyze potions is usesless, u can use a trapbox for this..
Remove stat loss potions..is useless if statloss is 2.5min (20min statloss, and this would have been so uber)

I played around for awhile with the gear, and my new mount.
The i joined a battle at yew..
After running from Yew mg, inside the city area, the alter was pretty easy to find..nicely done with those arrows.
I found the alter stood on it, for 45 sec, and i got 1500 silver points (again for doing nothing.. )

After this Epic battle, i decided to leave VvV, and i could still use my VvV gear.

Conclusion is this.
VvV lack a higher goal. (standing on some alter, and hold it for max 20min, and for what reason other than getting gear !?)
VvV lacks scaling with shard population.
VvV the system is too exploitable, and it will be.
I could go on, but i think i stop here..
Please Devs/Mesana whomever is in charge..Give us a real PVP system..

 

[Promathia]

I know this is going to be useless to post, but its really annoying seeing the misinformation.

Some of you are totally misrepresenting the facts and the state of PvP in the past and present. Some of you clearly hardly tested this on TC, and are clearly intentionally leaving things off just to try to make your point.

I mean, OreoGL, you only joined on Sunday - So if you have been testing, why not give feedback sooner?

There is so much misinformation in Kaio's post - Clearly there is some kind of agenda.

Overall:
The Rewards are good ( For examlpe: Forged Royal Pardon, with current market rate on pardons, for someone with say 500 counts is 1b value)
Altars were made with Smaller Populations in mind (Easy enough to tell just by testing on TC)
The system is just as exploitable as doing a Champ Spawn by yourself is "exploitable"
Stat is smaller to account for the much smaller battles. Going stat for 20 minutes, in a battle thats only 20 minutes would have been insane.
Para pot/stat pot arent useless.
You don't get 1500 points for capturing an Atlar
PvP is guild centric, it has been for years. Whether its Champ Spawns, Factions or VvV.
Even Solo, you can earn points + rewards, it just might take longer (As it should being solo)

As for the RP, you already have the story starting on uo.com. As for your own personal RP, that's up to you. I know personally, in a pvp scenario, I would rather be able to forged my own story, then to be shoved onto some team (I hope someday WoW gets rid of the traditional Horde V Alliance). Of course, that's entirely subjective. Lets not act like Factions was a rich RP background in 2014. And sorry to say, but I really doubt the main audience they are going for with a pvp system is the roleplayers.

 

[OREOGL]

I gave no.mis information and I didnt have an account here to post since apparently this was the avenue they chosen. I posted to uo.com fyi but received no response ir acknowledgement so I made the account here.

 

[drcossack]

Overall:
The Rewards are good ( For examlpe: Forged Royal Pardon, with current market rate on pardons, for someone with say 500 counts is 1b value)
Altars were made with Smaller Populations in mind (Easy enough to tell just by testing on TC)
The system is just as exploitable as doing a Champ Spawn by yourself is "exploitable"
Stat is smaller to account for the much smaller battles. Going stat for 20 minutes, in a battle thats only 20 minutes would have been insane.
Para pot/stat pot arent useless.
You don't get 1500 points for capturing an Atlar
PvP is guild centric, it has been for years. Whether its Champ Spawns, Factions or VvV.
Even Solo, you can earn points + rewards, it just might take longer (As it should being solo)

Yeah they are. I like the Mana Regen on the Orny.

For anyone on Origin/Izumo (i.e. @Tina Small), is the VvV Kasa now an Antique item? I posted about it in the last Pub 86 update thread and said that it wasn't (while every other item was, which was likely a missed detail on Kyronix's part), but I don't remember if I tagged him in that post.

 

[Tina Small]

For anyone on Origin/Izumo (i.e. @Tina Small), is the VvV Kasa now an Antique item? I posted about it in the last Pub 86 update thread and said that it wasn't (while every other item was, which was likely a missed detail on Kyronix's part), but I don't remember if I tagged him in that post.

It is still not antique.

 

[Kyronix]

Fix for the Kasa is submitted for WW release, existing Kasa will have the antique property applied. Thanks for the report!

 

[FrejaSP]

I think some forget, this system is not only made for the hard core PvP'ers, it's also made to make it easier for players to start to PvP and I really love, that it do not split guilds like factions did.
Making it a part of the guild/alliance system and allow each member to join it without the whole guild have to join is something I did miss from Faction and one of the reason, my guild was not in Faction.
Sure it a new system and there may be some stuff that will need a tweak but all in all I think we will see a lot guilds give it a try.

 

[kaio]

I know this is going to be useless to post, but its really annoying seeing the misinformation.

Some of you are totally misrepresenting the facts and the state of PvP in the past and present. Some of you clearly hardly tested this on TC, and are clearly intentionally leaving things off just to try to make your point.

I mean, OreoGL, you only joined on Sunday - So if you have been testing, why not give feedback sooner?

There is so much misinformation in Kaio's post - Clearly there is some kind of agenda.

Overall:
The Rewards are good ( For examlpe: Forged Royal Pardon, with current market rate on pardons, for someone with say 500 counts is 1b value)
Altars were made with Smaller Populations in mind (Easy enough to tell just by testing on TC)
The system is just as exploitable as doing a Champ Spawn by yourself is "exploitable"
Stat is smaller to account for the much smaller battles. Going stat for 20 minutes, in a battle thats only 20 minutes would have been insane.
Para pot/stat pot arent useless.
You don't get 1500 points for capturing an Atlar
PvP is guild centric, it has been for years. Whether its Champ Spawns, Factions or VvV.
Even Solo, you can earn points + rewards, it just might take longer (As it should being solo)

As for the RP, you already have the story starting on uo.com. As for your own personal RP, that's up to you. I know personally, in a pvp scenario, I would rather be able to forged my own story, then to be shoved onto some team (I hope someday WoW gets rid of the traditional Horde V Alliance). Of course, that's entirely subjective. Lets not act like Factions was a rich RP background in 2014. And sorry to say, but I really doubt the main audience they are going for with a pvp system is the roleplayers.

What misinformation ??
This whole VvV is a joke, and it will devaluate certan items in this game.
You have VvV battles in cities, that affect a whole facet !?
If they really want this "sit on an alter" concept, why not just make a bigger areana, and people can fight in there.. (Too hard to code eh ? )
I don't see the reason to ruin the game for those who farm doom/peerless with thise new free VvV arties.

My agenda, is no secret. I want a balanced PVP system, not Free stuff.

 

[Promathia]

I don't see the reason to ruin the game for those who farm doom/peerless with thise new free VvV arties.

The arties are the SAME ones which have been practically free for years now in Factions.

 

[kaio]

The arties are the SAME ones which have been practically free for years now in Factions.

You are missing 1 importand fact.
After they put the 4 week timer on, and made the silver price scale with rank, everyone left faction.
Why do you think they changed it in the first place ??????????

 

[OREOGL]

The arties are the SAME ones which have been practically free for years now in Factions.

Uh no. I would not call farming 50k silver to have an item expire in a few weeks free. Before then it was tied to rank.

After that they tweaked points etc etc but no need to go on. Its okay you didnt play factions but dont turn around and give "misinformation" about it.

 

[drcossack]

What misinformation ??
This whole VvV is a joke, and it will devaluate certan items in this game.
You have VvV battles in cities, that affect a whole facet !?
If they really want this "sit on an alter" concept, why not just make a bigger areana, and people can fight in there.. (Too hard to code eh ? )
I don't see the reason to ruin the game for those who farm doom/peerless with thise new free VvV arties.

My agenda, is no secret. I want a balanced PVP system, not Free stuff.

Except, you know, it won't. The originals will still be used and sold - you do realize you don't have to participate in VvV, right? If you want the Faction Arties, you sign up, get your 2k reward points, and pick whichever ones you want. To keep using them, you need to stay in VvV. Just like you needed to stay in Factions (assuming, I never liked Factions giving you 20 minutes of stat loss) to use those arties.

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

Originally we proposed having teams of Vice vs Virtue, much in the way that Chaos and Order worked. This, however, didn't go over well as largely established guilds did not, under any circumstances, want to fight alongside their enemies. Thusly, we decided to allow players to make their own teams in the form of their already existing guilds. Right now, a player is free to return the sigil to either Vice or Virtue, without any consequence for that action. Keep in mind, this is only the first step in a long journey. Our goal was to provide a fast paced, nimble, PvP experience that was easy-in/easy-out...so regardless of whether you are sitting down for just 1 or 2 matches or are digging in for the long haul - there is a fight to be had. As we move forward you'll see some official fiction (some of which has already been posted) about how this great war between Vice vs Virtue started, as well as future tie ins to existing features within VvV to add to some depth while still maintaining the pace. We wanted to leave the role playing side of VvV, for those that wish to participate, open for customization on behalf of the guild.

I think the concept you have does match the system you created and you will have a nimble easy in and out pvp system. Had a few battles last night for Altars against BTH and it was fun. We have always viewed as an "evil" guild so within the individual guild context you were speaking it did create a Virtue vs Vice scenario.

I am sorry I am late to the feedback party but I have worked in Factions and Order/Chaos (before its removal) since beta and its all I do in game. I don't hunt, spawn, trade, collect or even decorate my home - I just Faction and in that context continue the Quest of Order to merge the multiverse back into the prime (Our rp concept is based on Sherry the Mouse's account of Lord British's meeting with the Timelord and the subsequent creation of the Virtue Guard later called the Order). If you haven't seen me around its simply because The True Britannians have controlled the towns on Origin for the last 2-3 years uncontested. My playing experience has been log on check sigils, move them if needed and protect them if required. All of which required me to log in prob 20 mins a week. Obviously its a system I loved BUT the fact that I could maintain control of Felucca with a few allies and guildmates for 2+ years without any effort speaks for the need for a faster paced more nimble pvp system like Vice vs. Virtue.

I was in college when I started playing and today I'm creeping up on 40 with a career, a marriage and 2 kids so its hard for me to read up on changes, test and give feedback like I once did but if you are willing to take the time and consider some of these simple measures to add not just background context such as fiction but living context to the system that won't prevent individuals and guilds from participating how they see fit.

Vice vs. Virtue Teams: Allow guilds and individuals to support Virtue or Vice.

Issue 1: My guild doesn't want to work with THEM! - Join Vice! Vice guilds hue orange to each other unless they are in the same guild or guild alliance. Vice individuals and guilds are free to attack each other without consequence. If you attack someone in your alliance or guild its up to the guild to remove them or break alliance. Attacking non VvV participants will result in the normal murder counts and consquences but has no negative standing on their participation in VvV.

Issue 2: I am afraid people who are suppose to help me are going to be betray me - Join Virtue! Virtue guilds and individuals that attack each other suffer severe penalties as Fallen Virtue members and are removed in three days and unable to join Virtue for an extended period of time.

What does it mean to be "Fallen Virtue": Fallen Virtue Characters lose all silver points, can no longer gain points, can not earn silver, can not handle a sigil, can not use any VvV items and add a traitor point to their guild (if they belong to one). A fallen Virtue Character hues orange to both Virtue and Vice and can be freely attack and be attacked by both during the 3 day quitting phase. A Fallen Virtue character can not join Virtue for 4 weeks but can instantly join vice once they are removed from Virtue.

How can I use my Red Character? Red Players can not join Virtue but can join Vice. Players who turn red while in Virtue are instantly removed from guild and enter the three day removal phase as a Fallen Virtue. Virtue players who kill another Virtue player (and are reported as a traitor - similar to the option of giving a murder counts because accidents do happen - but solely up to the wronged player to give or not to give) are instantly removed from guild and enter the three day quitting period with the title Fallen Virtue.

Fallen Virtue characters lose all silver points, can no longer gain points, can not earn silver, can not handle a sigil, can not use any VvV items and add a traitor point to their guild (if they belong to one). A fallen Virtue Character hues orange to both Virtue and Vice and can be freely attack and be attacked by both during the 3 day quitting phase. A Fallen Virtue character can not join Virtue for 4 weeks but can instantly join vice.

Virtue Guilds gain 1 traitor point (1 per character removed as Fallen) each time a guild mate is removed as a Fallen Player. If a guild acquires 4 points, the entire guild becomes a Fallen Guild and all members gain the title Fallen Virtue and enter the removal phase. Leaving the guild after the fact will not change your status or consequences. Guild Traitor points decay at a rate of 1 per week.

Issue 3: No greater context or consequences:

Towns are on a sliding scale between "Protected by Virtue and Fallen to Vice" based on how the recent battles have gone. A Virtue Win moves the scale up 1 and a Vice win bring the scale down 1.

Protected by Virtue (10)------(9)-------(8)----------------(5)-------------------(3)------(2)------(1) Fallen to Vice

Depending on how the battle has been going either more Vice or Virtue, the town will interact with players differently:

(1) Fallen to Vice: Town Healer and surrounding town area spawns Vice Healers that will only resurrect Vice players, Only Vice players can access the bank, only vice players can use/purchase things with silver, shop keepers will only interact with Vice players.

(2) In Danger of Falling to Vice: Town Healer and surrounding town area spawns Vice Healers that will only resurrect Vice players, Only Vice players can access the bank, Shop keepers will only interact with Vice players.

(3) Vice Decsending on Town: Town Healer and surrounding town area spawns Vice Healers that will only resurrect Vice players.

(4)-(7) Neutral - The town is torn between Vice and Virtue

(8) Leaning towards Virtue - Town Healers, Gate healer spawn and surrounding area healers will resurrect blue and Virtue players, (not Vice or criminal)

(9) Protected by Virtue -Town Healer and surrounding town area Healers will resurrect Virtue and non criminals (not murders or Vice), Vice and criminal players can not access the bank, Shop keepers will not interact with Vice or criminal players (including murders)

(10) Town Healer and surrounding town area spawns Virtue Healers that will resurrect Virtue and non criminals players (not murders or Vice), Virtue and non criminal players can access the bank (not Vice criminals or murders), Only Virtue players can use/purchase items with silver, shop keepers will not interact with Vice, criminals or murders.
Thanks for listening - I am not leaving or quitting or any such nonsense, just a player who enjoys fighting when there is a cause greater then myself and hoping the VvV system can create that Virtue vs Vice (good vs evil) that I enjoyed so much in previous UO pvp systems like Order/Chaos and Factions. Hopefully this ideas can spark some more conversation towards adding that type of context with in game town consequences for fighting for Vice or Virtue to a solid pvp system. (I am against player/guild buffs for success because I've seen that giving the winning side additional buffs leads to landslide battles ie they are already winning please don't give extra bonus's to players but rather focus on the meaning of Vice and Virtue and how a town might behave when controlled by one or the other).

Thank you for taking the time to look at this,

Lore's Player

 

[Promathia]

I swear...you two.

Originally, the points in factions were so out of whack, the Artifacts essentially WERE free. No one actually "earned" their rank. They merely took a few minutes to farm points, or get points from someone.

With Silver, Silver had to be "earned" and that's using the term loosely. Spending a short amount of time farming silver compared to hours farming Doom = The Faction Artifacts are essentially free. The monthly timer is attributed by most pvpers as the biggest reason a lot of the xshard pvp died off, as replacing the artifacts became a chore.

EVEN THEN, when you compare how you get the Faction version vs the regular version, yes, the Faction version was (Keyword) "Essentially" free.

The new Artifacts will have the Antique property, meaning they suffer from a greatly increased decay rate. People will have to REPLACE them, which will require earning Silver Points (Much like how you had to farm Silver to replace yours in Factions).

 

[OREOGL]

Except, you know, it won't. The originals will still be used and sold - you do realize you don't have to participate in VvV, right? If you want the Faction Arties, you sign up, get your 2k reward points, and pick whichever ones you want. To keep using them, you need to stay in VvV. Just like you needed to stay in Factions (assuming, I never liked Factions giving you 20 minutes of stat loss) to use those arties.

I think you missed that people can join vvv use the arties and never be involved with it and never go to fel.

This was a huge gripe with the original arties. Unfortunately for us, none of the devs are pvpers so they didnt know how to fix it. This is why they rely so heavily on feedback.

Dont get me wrong I like the foundation they've laid. I just hope this isnt the end of the road for it.

 

[kaio]

Except, you know, it won't. The originals will still be used and sold - you do realize you don't have to participate in VvV, right? If you want the Faction Arties, you sign up, get your 2k reward points, and pick whichever ones you want. To keep using them, you need to stay in VvV. Just like you needed to stay in Factions (assuming, I never liked Factions giving you 20 minutes of stat loss) to use those arties.

I'm aware that in order to use VvV arties, u dont have todo anything, but staying in a VvV guild.
I just rejoined my guild on TC to VvV (Took it out last night) And i got another 2k siler points..

How am i gonna sell any doom arties or crimmies, when people can get them for free ?? Every pvp'er and his grandma is gonna flood the marked with the normal version, of the arties they can get for free in VvV..

 

[Vexxed]

You are missing 1 importand fact.
After they put the 4 week timer on, and made the silver price scale with rank, everyone left faction.
Why do you think they changed it in the first place ??????????

Any PvPer I've know had ZERO issues keeping himself in Faction Arty's reguardless of Rank. Even at 50k Silver for any Orny they would go kill Silver Serps in Blighted grove for 12k silver / Hr. So 4 hours or game play basically gave them a faction Orny for 1 month. On top of that people would sell silver also so if you needed something NOW for a good fight well you had the option of spending 5 Mill for silver (aka 10k silver = 1 Mill) to get a orny or whatnot so you could up and fight instantly if you needed to. I agree with Promathia that faction arty's have been around for YEARS and thus the market for the lesser versions of those arty's was pointless.... which means nothign has changed with the continuation of the faction arty's into VvV....

LAST point... for all of you complaining. How about we wait till it goes worldwide and people ACTUALLY try it before we complain eh?

 

[Promathia]

How am i gonna sell any doom arties or crimmies, when people can get them for free ?? Every pvp'er and his grandma is gonna flood the marked with the normal version, of the arties they can get for free in VvV..

I refuse to believe you are being genuine.

To you both: If they had removed the Arties, it would have caused a massive amount of exisiting Pvpers having to completely redo suits or templates. That is NOT GOOD, for a community you are trying to rebuild. The ship has sailed on removing those artifacts long ago.

 

[OREOGL]

I swear...you two.

Originally, the points in factions were so out of whack, the Artifacts essentially WERE free. No one actually "earned" their rank. They merely took a few minutes to farm points, or get points from someone.

With Silver, Silver had to be "earned" and that's using the term loosely. Spending a short amount of time farming silver compared to hours farming Doom = The Faction Artifacts are essentially free. The monthly timer is attributed by most pvpers as the biggest reason a lot of the xshard pvp died off, as replacing the artifacts became a chore.

EVEN THEN, when you compare how you get the Faction version vs the regular version, yes, the Faction version was (Keyword) "Essentially" free.

The new Artifacts will have the Antique property, meaning they suffer from a greatly increased decay rate. People will have to REPLACE them, which will require earning Silver Points (Much like how you had to farm Silver to replace yours in Factions).

No, originally points were not out of whack until devs gave the point bonuses for killing someone.

When arties were introduced they were tied to rank. Only a couple items could be used at rank one.

Then the devs happened and it all went downhill from there.

 

[Promathia]

No, originally points were not out of whack until devs gave the point bonuses for killing someone.

When arties were introduced they were tied to rank. Only a couple items could be used at rank one.

Then the devs happened and it all went downhill from there.

The devs happened? You mean Draconi happened....

The Faction Arties were a joke from day one and should NEVER have been put into the game. It was a weak, shortsighted attempt to bring life into an old decaying system noone used.

Alas, that was too long ago now. Its too late, those artifacts are engrained into our community, and would do more harm removing than good.

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

What I don't understand is why would anyone's roleplaying or seemingly entire UO existence revolve around factions in the first place?

Lore Denin was raised on the belief that the world we live is simply a reflection of the True Univserse and that until these lands of the multivserse can be re-united with the True Univserse - The True Univserse is in danger of collapsing. Thus as a Knight of Order he seeks to merge these lands with the prime world as The Timelord asked of Lord British because if the True Univserse collapses so will this multiverse and its worlds which are its reflections. The binding force that makes this possible are the magic inherent in the land based on the Virtues and the shards which must be gathered. Factions was the war that kept Britannia free from "taint/vice" so what the quest could be completed.

VvV continues that mission now that the Faction War has ended.

-Lore's Player

 

[Vexxed]

ok.... Would anyone with some time please just give a general example of a VvV fight in the town...? I haven't had time to log on TC and give one a try but I understand there are 3 alters and that hold them gives points and that the team / guild with the most points wins the battle, but some more specifics would be appreciated.. Just a general outline of the major factors. Pretend I'm in your guild and don't read stratics.... lol Explain a VvV town battle to me ?

 

[OREOGL]

The devs happened? You mean Draconi happened....

The Faction Arties were a joke from day one and should NEVER have been put into the game. It was a weak, shortsighted attempt to bring life into an old decaying system noone used.

Alas, that was too long ago now. Its too late, those artifacts are engrained into our community, and would do more harm removing than good.

Well they had their chance with this system but they dont know how to tie incentive to actually play vvv without the arties.

I recall all the people who wanted them to stay the same when people were rolling around with millions of points.

After the wipe they didnt kniw hoe to handle it

 

[drcossack]

How am i gonna sell any doom arties or crimmies, when people can get them for free ?? Every pvp'er and his grandma is gonna flood the marked with the normal version, of the arties they can get for free in VvV..

The VvV arties are bound to the character that claims them from the reward vendor. How is it gonna flood the market? Sure, you can "sell" them, but the most you'd get for it is a song and dance routine. Or maybe turn-in points.

I think you missed that people can join vvv use the arties and never be involved with it and never go to fel.

This was a huge gripe with the original arties. Unfortunately for us, none of the devs are pvpers so they didnt know how to fix it. This is why they rely so heavily on feedback.

Dont get me wrong I like the foundation they've laid. I just hope this isnt the end of the road for it.

I believe Kyronix said you have to stay in VvV to use them. I'll look for his post.

 

[OREOGL]

Okay vex, here's the gist given the caveat that tc is very low pop.

If you're in vvv you get 2k silver just to join. Arties can be worn by anyone at around 500 a pop.

Battles randomly spawn in a city and the object is to score the most points. Every guild is there own team.

You get points for standing on an alter for 38 seconds without someone from another guild standing on it. "king of the hill" basically.

Or you can find a sigil and return. Itto a priest fir more ppoints. These spaen in set "random" locations.

Those with the most points by hitting the cap or at the end of 20 mins, wins.

 

[OREOGL]

The arties are bound to the character that claims them from the reward vendor. How is it gonna flood the market? Sure, you can "sell" them, but the most you'd get for it is a song and dance routine. Or maybe turn-in points.



I believe Kyronix said you have to stay in VvV to use them. I'll look for his post.

Its about supply and demand. Why pay 13 mil for an orny when you can get one free without leaving trammel. Thus lowering demand.

 

[Promathia]

ok.... Would anyone with some time please just give a general example of a VvV fight in the town...? I haven't had time to log on TC and give one a try but I understand there are 3 alters and that hold them gives points and that the team / guild with the most points wins the battle, but some more specifics would be appreciated.. Just a general outline of the major factors. Pretend I'm in your guild and don't read stratics.... lol Explain a VvV town battle to me ?

1. Arrows point you to an Altar when its active / enemy standing on Atlar while your capping resets the progress
2. Earn points for having the majority hold on the battle zone
3. Earn points for stealing a sigil + returning it to a priest (You need detect to find the sigil + stealing to take it)
4. Gump which opens up in Battlezone shows the top 3 guilds in the battle (Your guilds progress is at the bottom)
5. When a Sigil is spawned and ready to be found, the Ankh in the gump is lit
6. Youll get updated in GChat to which guild is controlling the battle + when new battles start
7. Time limit = 20 minutes, guild who has most points at end wins or first to fill up their point bar

 

[Promathia]

Its about supply and demand. Why pay 13 mil for an orny when you can get one free without leaving trammel. Thus lowering demand.

Which, again, already exists - And Ornies are still around 30-40m

 

[kaio]

The VvV arties are bound to the character that claims them from the reward vendor. How is it gonna flood the market? Sure, you can "sell" them, but the most you'd get for it is a song and dance routine. Or maybe turn-in points.



I believe Kyronix said you have to stay in VvV to use them. I'll look for his post.

If you have 7 chars with 7 crimsons, you sell the 7 original crimsons, and join VvV with those 7 chars, and get 7 free ones with better stats. Same goes with the others arties you would use..

 

[OREOGL]

The VvV arties are bound to the character that claims them from the reward vendor. How is it gonna flood the market? Sure, you can "sell" them, but the most you'd get for it is a song and dance routine. Or maybe turn-in points.



I believe Kyronix said you have to stay in VvV to use them. I'll look for his post.

You do man, but who cares if you'rein vvv if you get free stuff and dont have to do anything?

 

[Warpig Inc]

Now aren't theese new rewards account and character bonded? If and it should be, the royal forged pardon is account bonded then where is the profit abuse. If the right awards are character and account bonded then there is issue control. For those that are into earning silver points and buying stuff for their own gains. Then they better damn well be rotating in new and taking out rewards. Otherwise it will get old and be another DOOM or ToT tired out list.

 

[Promathia]

Now aren't theese new rewards account and character bonded? If and it should be, the royal forged pardon is account bonded then where is the profit abuse. If the right awards are character and account bonded then there is issue control. For those that are into earning silver points and buying stuff for their own gains. Then they better damn well be rotating in new and taking out rewards. Otherwise it will get old and be another DOOM or ToT tired out list.

The Royal Forged Pardon is Shard Bound
The +10 SoT is Account Bound
The Banners / Tiles are Shard Bound
Arties are Character Bound

 

[OREOGL]

Which, again, already exists - And Ornies are still around 30-40m

It Isn't the same. You have to farm 50k silver for one now. You dont farm 12k silver an hour even doing daemons.

Besides thats on searchui,, if its worth that much ill be selling mine. But I just bbought one not to long ago for 13m.

 

[kaio]

The devs happened? You mean Draconi happened....

The Faction Arties were a joke from day one and should NEVER have been put into the game. It was a weak, shortsighted attempt to bring life into an old decaying system noone used.

Alas, that was too long ago now. Its too late, those artifacts are engrained into our community, and would do more harm removing than good.

As it is now, they are giving them away for free...( no need to farm anything, or hold any alter, or even going to fel)
I think the 4 week timer on "old" faction gear was a way to go ..But those did take longer to farm, than leaving/joining a guild every 3rd day..

 

[Warpig Inc]

The Royal Forged Pardon is Shard Bound
The +10 SoT is Account Bound
The Banners / Tiles are Shard Bound
Arties are Character Bound

Doesn't shard bound pardons sound weak for something that usefull? Not sure the silver points cost. Deco shard bound sure. Something like deco & dyes will need a constant rotation to keep interest up.

 

[Warpig Inc]

As it is now, they are giving them away for free...( no need to farm anything, or hold any alter, or even going to fel)
I think the 4 week timer on "old" faction gear was a way to go ..But those did take longer to farm, than leaving/joining a guild every 3rd day..

Think I seen something about the joining ammount being reduced if rejoining again in a certain time period. Was like -500 each short join. What need's to know is if silver points are reduced to 0 after quiting. No stacking.

 

[The Old Man]

Remember you only get the 2k silver the first time you join VvV, if you leave/rejoin you get less.
So when the Antique arties wear out, you will have to be active in VvV and earn points in order to get more.

 

[Promathia]

Doesn't shard bound pardons sound weak for something that usefull? Not sure the silver points cost. Deco shard bound sure. Something like deco & dyes will need a constant rotation to keep interest up.

The max points anything costs is 10k. The pardon, SoT, banners, and tiles are all 10k Each.

There are 8 Virtue Banners , 8 Vice Banners, and 8 Vice Tiles.

The skill on the SoT you get is random.

 

[kaio]

Doesn't shard bound pardons sound weak for something that usefull? Not sure the silver points cost. Deco shard bound sure. Something like deco & dyes will need a constant rotation to keep interest up.

The royal pardon, should't be in this game, unless it was given out by the king himself during an event or something.

 

[kaio]

Think I seen something about the joining ammount being reduced if rejoining again in a certain time period. Was like -500 each short join. What need's to know is if silver points are reduced to 0 after quiting. No stacking.

I tested it earliere on TC1, as it is now...When you rejoin youre guild to VvV you get 2k silver..
Even if they clear youre points, and you only get 500 silver points pr rejoining..its still 1 free artie every 3rd day..

 

[Tina Small]

It Isn't the same. You have to farm 50k silver for one now. You dont farm 12k silver an hour even doing daemons.

Besides thats on searchui,, if its worth that much ill be selling mine. But I just bbought one not to long ago for 13m.

As far as I know, the silver coins are useless in VvV. You can only purchase items from the silver trader NPCs with silver points that you can only earn in the battle regions by doing certain things. You can't get silver points from hunting faction monsters and you don't get silver points from killing enemies outside the battle regions.