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Do you want the Old Idoc System Back the Way it was!! Lets show the Devs
- Thread starter AtlanticRealtor
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New systems changed nothing on small servers, because if will be fall some houses (and some look poorly), their army will be on richer. Army with trial accounts, usually accounts, plots, etc.
All these changes, do more harm to old idoсers (which never use any scripts).
No normal person will sit, it is so much long(need another frames, as variant 5-7 hours and it is too will be random).
More cardinal measures are necessary to remove this mafia from idocs.
1) Forbid all installation new houses in radius destructions of the idoc and after fell on 10-30 minutes.
2) Trial accounts can't be near such this house.
3) Animals can be damage (also can be killed) in radius destructions(exception, if player sit on this animal)
4) To establish a delay on lifting of things from idocs(it can be random 1-3 sec)
5) If this event, then add chance on appearance of several monsters(which can attack people and in stealth/hiding mode)
All these changes, do more harm to old idoсers (which never use any scripts).
No normal person will sit, it is so much long(need another frames, as variant 5-7 hours and it is too will be random).
More cardinal measures are necessary to remove this mafia from idocs.
1) Forbid all installation new houses in radius destructions of the idoc and after fell on 10-30 minutes.
2) Trial accounts can't be near such this house.
3) Animals can be damage (also can be killed) in radius destructions(exception, if player sit on this animal)
4) To establish a delay on lifting of things from idocs(it can be random 1-3 sec)
5) If this event, then add chance on appearance of several monsters(which can attack people and in stealth/hiding mode)
yeah ive heard about people losing alot of gold, which again, is why i dont think its worth the risk personally. not sure if it still still works or not, also not personally going to try to find out.
i know it worked 3 months ago, that was the last time someone bought about 900 mil off a vendor of mine in one shot.
Although the nature of IDOCs is not nice, as it means that a player has left the game and stopped paying the sub with the most than probable option of not coming back, it is also another part of the game and cycle for other players got get hands on stuff that people wouldn't be allegable till many years had gone by in-game. I think the old IDOC timing system has just and fair for all that bothered enough to stay awake or plan around it. Its not a bad thing for a newer player to get older stuff or make some pennies meanwhile.
Then why isn't anybody suggesting that all items simply disappear when a house falls and not go on the ground at all? Why should be all be fighting over free stuff we didn't earn? I suppose the IDOC system was originally intended to give people a chance to save stuff for somebody who lets their house fall through an oversight. But that's not what it has become, is it?
I did a lot of IDOC's in my past. All I needed was the info when it went to stage IDOC...and it was 6 hrs 52 mins to it fall...
with the IDOC stage to be random, its not predictable...i cant tell on the minute it falls - as we used to do... I think that is a good feauture.
You may disagree, you may profit on it - I was just a casual idocer that knew the terms...now its no casual with predicted fall...
If you want it - you have to wait for it...and be there...not have a alarm clock set on your comp or phone... I love that. Take it or leave it.
You don't address my question at all though, how does that unpredictability not punish noncheating player over a scripter who doesn't care about timing?
This would help the economy by actually deleting stuff. I don't know why they never did this. Biggest Gold Sink Ever, deletion of resources,items,gold from vendors ect.
I am plotting a lot more houses this way...since there is a lot less people on them.... by having 80% less people ... there is more loot and more options to plot....so you are very wrong...
And like few others has said...there IS a pattern...took few weeks to learn...
This will make all prices skyrock...
All this years of idocs i accumulated
Thousands of resources...so will b a good idea to store all...and wait ti make double the money later???
Now, is that a bank that is completely empty of anything but checks? Maybe I am just old fashion but my bank holds more than just gold.
...
Honestly, I think only the owner and co-owner(s) of a house should be able to see the decay state of the house.
Honestly, I think only the owner and co-owner(s) of a house should be able to see the decay state of the house.
Well for those of you that REALLY thinks this random idoc thwarts scripters....De-Nile ain't just a river in Egypt!
Ever heard of Idoc alarm? Its what the cheaters/scripters use to let them know when a house is going to fall. NO-I don't cheat! YES-I do research how its done because I am curious how these a-holes operate. Maybe the Dev team need to start thinking more like a cop/detective. The only ones that EVER benefit from this random bs is the scripters.
Let's randomize ore....I haven't seen Valorite in so long on my miner, yet the scriptards are sell deeds with valorite ingots
. Let's randomize colored wood-- Greeeeat I haven't seen frostwood on my jacker since, yet the scriptards are selling deeds with 10k and 60k.
I'm sorry but this is poorly thought out IMHO. My best friend/guildmate is closing all but one acct and moving to Atlantic. She plans to keep one char on Legends.
I honestly think the Devs are trying to kill UO....I can't figure out why though, cause from personal expirence unemployed SUCKS!
Ever heard of Idoc alarm? Its what the cheaters/scripters use to let them know when a house is going to fall. NO-I don't cheat! YES-I do research how its done because I am curious how these a-holes operate. Maybe the Dev team need to start thinking more like a cop/detective. The only ones that EVER benefit from this random bs is the scripters.
Let's randomize ore....I haven't seen Valorite in so long on my miner, yet the scriptards are sell deeds with valorite ingots
. Let's randomize colored wood-- Greeeeat I haven't seen frostwood on my jacker since, yet the scriptards are selling deeds with 10k and 60k.
I'm sorry but this is poorly thought out IMHO. My best friend/guildmate is closing all but one acct and moving to Atlantic. She plans to keep one char on Legends.
I honestly think the Devs are trying to kill UO....I can't figure out why though, cause from personal expirence unemployed SUCKS!
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To the 35% or so of you who want it the old way, don't try to kid anyone. The decrease in predictability of when the house is going to fall is an increase in fairness to all who put their time and effort into seeking these idocs and to those who play the game correctly.
So much for "what the people want."
I find the arguments posted here simply amusing.
Ohh and P.S., I second Tazar's notion to send the house into auto-private when it begins to decay so long as the owner, co-owners, friends and accessed people can still access the house and the owner still has time to reactivate their account or transfer the house to bring it out of decay status.
This is going to be a fun thread to watch.
So much for "what the people want."
I find the arguments posted here simply amusing.
Ohh and P.S., I second Tazar's notion to send the house into auto-private when it begins to decay so long as the owner, co-owners, friends and accessed people can still access the house and the owner still has time to reactivate their account or transfer the house to bring it out of decay status.
This is going to be a fun thread to watch.
Random times are not so random ?
Is that a bug to the way it has been intended to work which I understand should be randomized or the fact that they are not so random means that they were not intended to be randomized ?
I am confused and do not understand, anyone can explain it please ? Thanks.
Is it just me or did you just say you have the same belief as Mandrake but again don't explain how the decrease in predictability actually rewards legit players over scripters? If you all believe it so heartily then by all means explain your reasoning. Tell me why an unpredictable system where you have to sit there for hours is better for a live player over an auto looting script?
This IS getting comical.
ITT: People who don't IDOC, want to do away with IDOCS, have houses full of stuff that was once looted from an IDOC and purchase off an IDOC hunters vendor, and would raise hell about scarcity and lack of stocked vendors if they actually got their way...
I voted yes because under the old rules, even with scripters around, I could still take part in a lot more IDOCs than I will be able to under the new rules, but anyway, I think I'll just convince myself to accept it and move on with the new rules...
A few things in my mind...
Honestly, I'm still not even sure if this is really an intended change in the first place.
It looks to me that this happened as an unexpected error/bug first and it's been left unfixed for some reason and then it's suddenly announced as an intended change...
I'm worried about one thing under the new rules. On low population shards, more houses would be completely ignored and unattended when they fall and all the items in the house just decay and disappear. If it's hundreds of 1 mil checks, it would be a good gold sink, but if it's rare items or items that is no longer obtainable, it'll be a loss to community/market and the game itself because those items are precious part of the game and its history.
IDOCs are not all about being greedy, it's just fun too.
Like lining up in front of an popular restaurant, if it's only 1 or 2 hours, it's just fun waiting for something.
The old rules at least create some opportunities for players to have fun gathering and waiting around falling houses which means players can make IDOCs kind of a mini event.
A few things in my mind...
Honestly, I'm still not even sure if this is really an intended change in the first place.
It looks to me that this happened as an unexpected error/bug first and it's been left unfixed for some reason and then it's suddenly announced as an intended change...
I'm worried about one thing under the new rules. On low population shards, more houses would be completely ignored and unattended when they fall and all the items in the house just decay and disappear. If it's hundreds of 1 mil checks, it would be a good gold sink, but if it's rare items or items that is no longer obtainable, it'll be a loss to community/market and the game itself because those items are precious part of the game and its history.
IDOCs are not all about being greedy, it's just fun too.
Like lining up in front of an popular restaurant, if it's only 1 or 2 hours, it's just fun waiting for something.
The old rules at least create some opportunities for players to have fun gathering and waiting around falling houses which means players can make IDOCs kind of a mini event.
I believe it is actually just you. I don't know Mandrake nor was I following his one specific post. The points have been made clear, repeatedly throughout the thread from other members. I didn't see a need for me to beat those points into the dirt.
Posting your opinion nine times doesn't make your points any more valid.
This is a very good idea.
Quite honestly, I would rather all housing contents completely decay, than reverting back to the former housing decay system (no more greed, deal with it).
I agree, making all contaners decay would make it not possible for scripters to tag a containerto then use their scripts when the house would fall....
Though, I would imagine that scripters could still create a script that would pick all single items from the ground nearby after the House has fallen and all containers decayed, and put them in a set container in their main backpack until they get overloaded, then they would drop this container in pack animal and repeat using another container, all scripted ..... It would still be much faster then any other player could possibly do manually...
The real issue and problem in UO, IMHO, is that in this game players not using scripts are at a very big disadvantage over players using scripts. And I think this is not good for Ultima Online to have players not scripting be at so much a disadvantage in their game play as compared to players using scripts.
Think about fighting scripts, looting scripts, resources gathering scripts, stealing scripts, IDOC scripts, house placing scripts and blah blah blah....
I've seen a lot a great ideas pop up in this thread but the above is hands down the best!Ohh and P.S., I second Tazar's notion to send the house into auto-private when it begins to decay so long as the owner, co-owners, friends and accessed people can still access the house and the owner still has time to reactivate their account or transfer the house to bring it out of decay status.
This is going to be a fun thread to watch.
IDOCs can be incredibly lucrative so I'm all for making it a bit more of a challenge. Making the houses private would add the element of the unknown that bots hate.
Not only would it help level the playing field between honest players and bots but it will also give friends a chance to save some items just in case the person losing the house decides to come back.
The house I'm watching right now has at least a dozen ninja form 'rabbits' hidden in the house and strategically placed next to high end items. I say at least a dozen because that's the max amount the tracking skill will show (there's probably more). Your typical honest player doesn't stand a chance against that many bots. Granted some may be honest players but I guarantee you that at least half are bots.
Zuckuss you are correct sir. This thread is somewhat entertaining.
Most houses are private to begin with, unless they have vendors, and even then the majority of the times the doors or teleporters can't be accessed, so including this feature would only affect relatively few IDOC's.
The reason, that prices skyrocket is the borked economy. (Gold is not leaving the system). A minor part of that is by design and the major part is by scripting. So IDOCs only mitigate the symptoms if at all. Since the root cause is still here, that will happen sooner or later anyway. Maybe not skyrocketing, but increasing slowly but steadily.
I agree with you on that. IMHO the best would be, if any stage change of every condemned house would be announced server wide and town criers would announce the exact collapsing time of the next upcoming 3 IDOCs. Allow IDOCs only to collapse during a certain server peak hour time frame. -> Everybody and their grandmother would be there.
If you then also put picking up IDOC-flagged items on the ground on a 10 second timer (like taming currently works: i.e. "You start to salvage the item.")(non-interrupatble of course)(preventing others to pick up that item i.e. "Someone else is already salvaging that item") everybody and not just the scripters and fastest clickers should get something.
This here is exactly my point. The guy running all those rabbits doesn't care what time the house falls. He can just park em there when it turns IDOC and hes done. Doesn't even have to watch. If there were two houses IDOC at the same time he'd just park rabbits at both.
That is a valid point however that same guy would do and has done the exact same thing with the old 7 day timer. The difference being with the old system is he knows when it's going to fall so he can be present when / if a GM shows up.
Cheaters will cheat either way. In my opinion the new system offers more risk to them as it forces them to do it unattended. But the example I gave was simply to enforce Tazzers suggestion of making the house private. Doing so would curb the cherry picking that's going on with all the bots.
I am guessing you didn't get the results you wanted. 67.5% like the new changed and only 32.5% want it changed back. So I hope you can except that this is what the people want.
IDK where you idoc, but most houses are not private.. and you can get into houses even if the doors and teleporters can't be accessed.
For me really doesnt matter... most complains between old and new way...its about the loot... i place houses....so the new way its a lot better for me...less people trying to plot...so either way works for me...private or not private...after house is gone...the area will be opened anyway
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That's a bit too much of a generalization, being informed about things does not automatically mean the person is a cheater. That's like saying someone who knows how a politician took bribes in real life also took bribes themselves. Many people, including myself, learn things like that accidentally quite often just by talking to a lot of people for other reasons, like selling/buying stuff. Example: I go meet a friend to buy a rare, after the sale we start talking, eventually the friend says something like "oh, ya I was at an IDOC and this guy took alot of valuable stuff with a script , then told us how he did it to brag" out of automatic curiosity I say "how did he do it?" the friend answers, and we go back to whatever we were doing before the sale. Just because I now know how to do it, doesn't mean I'm going to, but if others are confused by it on a forum like this one, I'll gladly explain to them the basic information of how it was done to satisfy their curiosity, and leave out the specefics so they cannot use the information to cheat.
Situations like my example happen a lot more than people think. To me personally, it happens at least 5 times a year, so I'm sure it happens to others just as much. Even though I have had the information many times, I have never once cheated, and never will.
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Captn Norrington
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I preferred the old system, but for a different reason than most. IDOC's were always guaranteed to have at least 5-10 people at them, so I would frequently go to them just to talk with those waiting for the loot to fall, if a piece of loot fell near me of course I'd pick it up, but the conversations were more intersting to me than a few pieces of loot. When it's 3 Am and the entire shard is empty, it's nice to have people to hang out with.
Did a cpl idocs last tonight to try out the new changes. New timers = more loot bc it thins out the herd. They did kill the feluca idoc fights, seems noone wants to wait around for x amount of hrs not knowing when the thing will fall. New system or old it's all the same
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Many UO players do have a bunch of computers, I only use one and can get to 6 multi clients with no problems, and a maximum of 8 if I was willing to risk the computer crashing. Now imagine that with the really cool 6 screen setup a couple people have, 6x6=36 clients at once all on auto-pilot with scripts.
yes... indeed norry .. but being that is said.. i have seen a few players that will remain nameless put six to eight noob account on one house.
which would max a computer or so.
sure if you got six computers you could cover six houses using that math..
but still better then more players.. using same tactics. that dont have six computers. sitting on every idoc. because they know the exact time of the fall and can move over and setup again and again
it limits the amount of said player hitting all houses.
having them spend more time on this house or that. not knowing they exact time.
i also enjoy the convo .. but enjoy more not having 20 people show up a min before the fall.
which would max a computer or so.
sure if you got six computers you could cover six houses using that math..
but still better then more players.. using same tactics. that dont have six computers. sitting on every idoc. because they know the exact time of the fall and can move over and setup again and again
it limits the amount of said player hitting all houses.
having them spend more time on this house or that. not knowing they exact time.
i also enjoy the convo .. but enjoy more not having 20 people show up a min before the fall.
While we're at it, why don't we put in a 5-30 second delay between turning in BODs? Or a 20-60 minute delay between ore/wood respawn?
Any attempt at randomness only rewards scripters, who can get around timers, and hurts legitimate players.
Yeah the new random drops suck!! How on earth are you supposed to script run 5 shards and do 6-7 IDOCs a day now! It's complete BS!!
/end sarcasm
However with that being said..there needs to be some sort of timer on the house sign if the reason it's falling because you placed a new house if it's going to be random. Idoc due to non paying customer is fair game..let it drop in 1day-5days who cares they aren't paying..and for those complaining about vacations and missed payments blah blah..you have 90 freaking days..don't wait till the last second
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/end sarcasm
However with that being said..there needs to be some sort of timer on the house sign if the reason it's falling because you placed a new house if it's going to be random. Idoc due to non paying customer is fair game..let it drop in 1day-5days who cares they aren't paying..and for those complaining about vacations and missed payments blah blah..you have 90 freaking days..don't wait till the last second
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Both good ideas..hope a dev sees it!
If you can't wait 5-30 seconds to turn in a BOD there's an issue..as for the lumber who cares. 60k wood done legitimately takes day..otherwise atleast 6-8 hours constant scripting. For 100k gold..and that's due to scripters..not very time/profit effective..or we can start talking Economy 101 again..that'll be fun
And yes I understand they were random what ifs..
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The change rewards the trammy stealthers who are willing to wait 6 hours to loot a house..most of the complaints here are strictly due to the fact they can't script get a drop time recall in/ loot recall out..they have to actually play and watch and risk getting caught..but I agree it does kill the huge idoc fights over keeps/castles..or maybe it'll increase the fight because the Zerg crews won't wait till the last 8-10 minutes rush in kill and field It up and loot
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No, I like the randomness of the new system.
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Let all the old timer's cry about the changes. These are the same fools that would set the entire game back to the 1990's if they could.
I never did any IDOC's until they changed the system (atleast not successfully). I see people saying that the new system causes chaos? Hardly. The 'professional IDOCers' and scripters have been weakened and now have to deal with some randomness and don't have quite as much control as they used to. Timing the IDOC's down to the second was just stupid to begin with and we don't need that back in UO.
New houses shouldn't be able to be placed on an IDOC space for a random amount of time... more than 1 day. That will also stop this ridiculous market of people placing houses immediately after an IDOC and then gauging a more legitimate player who actually needs a house out of a chance to place in a good spot. Someone shouldn't be able to make $100M in gold because they place an 8x8 house in a spot where a Castle used to be and then demand ransom by a group trying to place there.
We need MORE changes to take power out of the hands of the old timers. VOTE NO ON BRINGING BACK THE OLD SYSTEM.
I never did any IDOC's until they changed the system (atleast not successfully). I see people saying that the new system causes chaos? Hardly. The 'professional IDOCers' and scripters have been weakened and now have to deal with some randomness and don't have quite as much control as they used to. Timing the IDOC's down to the second was just stupid to begin with and we don't need that back in UO.
New houses shouldn't be able to be placed on an IDOC space for a random amount of time... more than 1 day. That will also stop this ridiculous market of people placing houses immediately after an IDOC and then gauging a more legitimate player who actually needs a house out of a chance to place in a good spot. Someone shouldn't be able to make $100M in gold because they place an 8x8 house in a spot where a Castle used to be and then demand ransom by a group trying to place there.
We need MORE changes to take power out of the hands of the old timers. VOTE NO ON BRINGING BACK THE OLD SYSTEM.
So like so many things in the game I once loved, change everything except, stopping script intrusion. MAKES NO SENSE to me. Like have a bank acct that keeps getting hacked,you tolerate it or sort it out?if you don't sort it out you have no money (players) left. FFS. This has to be the answer, not fuc*ing over the players who remain....
Please forgive me for posting when I have left, but I left due to everything good that comes to this game gets nerfed, worsened after the cheats work out how to exploit. I Read the boards daily and I see so many posts complaining about scripts (suspected or confirmed) and exploits. An example is the unattended or stealth dragon owners in Blackthorn.
Now SURELY the people who are paid to create events, publishes etc should KNOW that people will look for ways of cheating, been doing so for 16 years. Yet they do not predict, or know anything about the game to stop this happening.
I will never get my head around it allowing people to infiltrate the game to cheat and not stop it REALLY?
Please forgive me for posting when I have left, but I left due to everything good that comes to this game gets nerfed, worsened after the cheats work out how to exploit. I Read the boards daily and I see so many posts complaining about scripts (suspected or confirmed) and exploits. An example is the unattended or stealth dragon owners in Blackthorn.
Now SURELY the people who are paid to create events, publishes etc should KNOW that people will look for ways of cheating, been doing so for 16 years. Yet they do not predict, or know anything about the game to stop this happening.
I will never get my head around it allowing people to infiltrate the game to cheat and not stop it REALLY?
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Yes, make it so the only ones who can place a house are the people who script around the clock, that's a brilliant idea... lol
New system is great nothing needs changed. The old timers you refer to is the whole population of UO so not sure where your going with that. There always will be people who always win and people who always lose no matter what they change. You just need to figure out which you are
You obviously are not on Europa. At a decent idoc there you will find plots appear nearby with the nice row of empty bags along the front at the Somewhat stage. At the same time a hidden character appears to record the stage changes.
At sometime after it turns idoc the gates appear through which appear the 'young' , rabbits, call them what you will. From that point I have no need to explain further. Not wishing you any harm but I hope they leave Europa and home into your shard. I think you might sing a different song.
*gasps*
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