VvV Comments

[The Old Man]

Maybe I'm missing something, but...

There seem to be very few comments about the VvV system.

There have in the recent past been LOTS of people saying how pvp and factions is the most important part of UO, but no one seems to want to say anything about VvV.

From what I can see VvV is the biggest change to pvp play in ages and while there is a lot of interest in the dismount changes, no interest in VvV.

There is a thread in the UO Test Center forum for VvV comments...It has 16 posts. The Trade quest thread has 197 posts.

Personally I don't care too much as I no longer pvp, but I really don't want to see all the posts when it goes live from people saying they hate the new system - people who hav'nt tested/commented.

But maybe I'm missing something and there are 100's of comments somewhere I've not looked!

The Old Man

 

[petemage]

Having to get your whole guilde into it is a total no-go for me (and maybe many more): Thus i didn't even mind checking it out once.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Having to get your whole guilde into it is a total no-go for me (and maybe many more): Thus i didn't even mind checking it out once.

VvV is a replacement for Factions. Factions is a team play activity. Therefore, like factions, it centers around guilds.
All failures in the system will be laid squarely at the feet of the pvp focus group and the devs. Pvpers don't do testing. Or so I've read frequently in the past.

 

[FrejaSP]

From what I can see VvV is the biggest change to pvp play in ages and while there is a lot of interest in the dismount changes, no interest in VvV.
The Old Man

If it's Faction, VvV or something else do not matter that much.
What do matter is, it gives blue ways to PvP without going red and it make it easier to find other PvP players.
The whole guild have to join is a no go for me too, let me as guildmaster choose side, evil or good, then my members can choose if they want to be active PvP'er or passive. I like the part where blue can join the fight and then be orange to all, should count for looting an orange too, now make it so if passive guild members choose to join the fight, they become active VvV and can's resign for x hours/days.

The balance fix to PvP is much more important, that include PvP gear from new loot too.
I also dislike, that they use towns for the fights and I dislike, that the system only work in Felucca but as long it work on whole Siege it's fine

For Siege, there are no way I will join my guild to this system as I have peaceful members too. However if they changes it so each guild member could choose PvP active or not, I would join my guild.
If our player town was under attack, the passive members then had a choice to join the fight, and help with healing and maybe fighting and then next day, go back to passive. We do still have the red vs blue system, so if someone abuse it, they could still be attacked next day

 

[FrejaSP]

VvV is a replacement for Factions. Factions is a team play activity. Therefore, like factions, it centers around guilds.
All failures in the system will be laid squarely at the feet of the pvp focus group and the devs. Pvpers don't do testing. Or so I've read frequently in the past.

Problem is, this system should not only be for the hardcore Fel PvP'ers, it should be for all guilds, who have players who would like to try out PvP.

 

[James Moriarty]

VvV is a replacement for Factions. Factions is a team play activity. Therefore, like factions, it centers around guilds.
All failures in the system will be laid squarely at the feet of the pvp focus group and the devs. Pvpers don't do testing. Or so I've read frequently in the past.

Quite a lot of experienced PvP'ers were not invited into the focus group even although they applied to be part of it. So it looks like the whole system may be put together by a lot of so called PvP'ers and not the people who are really PvPing. It looks like it may fail straight off the bat and because they made the Focus group a select group its hasn't helped.

 

[James Moriarty]

Having to get your whole guilde into it is a total no-go for me (and maybe many more): Thus i didn't even mind checking it out once.

When we played factions we invited all our PvP'ers into a faction guild and ran a separate non PvP guild for those who don't want to PvP, its not hard to create a new Faction/VvV guild for your guild mates who like to PvP

 

[Petra Fyde]

Quite a lot of experienced PvP'ers were not invited into the focus group even although they applied to be part of it. So it looks like the whole system may be put together by a lot of so called PvP'ers and not the people who are really PvPing. It looks like it may fail straight off the bat and because they made the Focus group a select group its hasn't helped.

If the regular pvpers want to have input, they merely have to get on test center and test it, then report back in the thread on test center board.

 

[FrejaSP]

When we played factions we invited all our PvP'ers into a faction guild and ran a separate non PvP guild for those who don't want to PvP, its not hard to create a new Faction/VvV guild for your guild mates who like to PvP

I tried that once, do not work for me as I can't ally the 2 guilds. I can't see why they have to force all to join, it do not make sense to me and stop a lot for taking part in it.

 

[petemage]

When we played factions we invited all our PvP'ers into a faction guild and ran a separate non PvP guild for those who don't want to PvP, its not hard to create a new Faction/VvV guild for your guild mates who like to PvP

Honestly, I would give it a chance. But leaving or splitting my guild just to try it out once, not knowing whether it will be fun or not is a bit over the top.

Why not just having two teams everybody is free to join regardless of guild? Yea i know..

I wish everybody who has no problem to enroll his whole guild into it much fun. The rest of us that don't do will find fun elsewhere, like where you don't have to ask your whole guild to do things. Or where you don't go into stat loss (just to bring another point up )

 

[James Moriarty]

If the regular pvpers want to have input, they merely have to get on test center and test it, then report back in the thread on test center board.

If their input was going to be listned to they should have been invited into the Select focus group. By making a Select focus group its like saying, these are the only people who we will listen to, everyone one else can just like it or lump it. PvP,ers don't do testing.....where have a read this before?

 

[James Moriarty]

I tried that once, do not work for me as I can't ally the 2 guilds. I can't see why they have to force all to join, it do not make sense to me and stop a lot for taking part in it.

Don't you use Ventrio/skype to communicate? PvP'ers don't type as it take far to long and as long as everyone was in vent/Skype does it really matter that they are not allied?

 

[FrejaSP]

Don't you use Ventrio/skype to communicate? PvP'ers don't type as it take far to long and as long as everyone was in vent/Skype does it really matter that they are not allied?

I'm Danish, I write English fine but voice chat do not work well for me. Several of my members do not like voice chat. My guild are not and will never be heavy PvP'ers.
I feel it wrong, that guilds need voice chat or uoam link to speak together. If some of us choose to go red, we can still be in same guild so why not with VvV?

 

[Smoot]

its only phase one. the basics of it are barely working. im sure there will be more input on it as more comes out.

 

[James Moriarty]

I'm Danish, I write English fine but voice chat do not work well for me. Several of my members do not like voice chat. My guild are not and will never be heavy PvP'ers.
I feel it wrong, that guilds need voice chat or uoam link to speak together. If some of us choose to go red, we can still be in same guild so why not with VvV?

Well 2 things stick out here, 1 you say your not heavy on PvP so it really wont be an issue for you if you don't play PvP much.

Second if you do decide to PvP you are going to die far too much stopping to type messages to each other.

 

[FrejaSP]

Well 2 things stick out here, 1 you say your not heavy on PvP so it really wont be an issue for you if you don't play PvP much.

Second if you do decide to PvP you are going to die far too much stopping to type messages to each other.

Who say I don't PvP? I was red for 10+ years on my main char. I mostly PvP in small groups or 1 vs 1. Why do you think I play Siege?

The diff is, I do not only play to PvP but I do risk PvP everywhere I go. I hope the new loot will bring back some actions. I don't really need VvV to PvP as I don't mind going red again.

 

[Tjalle]

Having to get your whole guilde into it is a total no-go for me (and maybe many more): Thus i didn't even mind checking it out once.

Hmm, the way I read the publish notes was that each guildmember can choose for themselves if they want to sign up or not. Only requirement was that the guildmaster had signed up.
So the whole guild isn´t forced to join. Only the ones that want to sign up can do so.

Am I wrong or right on this?

 

[FrejaSP]

I asked Kyronix
I have a few questions
Can a non guilded player join?
Do the whole guild have to join or can crafters stay out?
Can VvV also fight in Trammel?

His replay was:

You must be in a guild to join, even if you are the only person in that guild.
Right now it's a guild wide join like factions.
VvV cannot fight in Trammel.

 

[James Moriarty]

Who say I don't PvP? I was red for 10+ years on my main char. I mostly PvP in small groups or 1 vs 1. Why do you think I play Siege?

The diff is, I do not only play to PvP but I do risk PvP everywhere I go. I hope the new loot will bring back some actions. I don't really need VvV to PvP as I don't mind going red again.

I never said you didn't PvP, you said your guild were not heavy on PvP.

Factions was guild PvP system, this is a guild PvP system.

If you are red you can still continue to kill people and no doubt you can kill VvV players. But if you want to participate in the VvV system you need to be in a guild, just the same as factions.

So nothing is changing on that respect, if your guild was in factions there should be no reason for them not Joining VvV. If your guild was not in factions again nothing changes for you.

I would just like to add, im not a fan of this VvV system. I would rather they put in a system like the power scrolls, where anyone can fight over a boss for a game changing drop. A revamp of the scroll system would have been suffice maybe a new scroll which gave a +25 to a skill and move the skill cap to 725.

 

[FrejaSP]

Kyronix said: Right now it's a guild wide join like factions.

I read it as, that can be changed, and I hope it will.

 

[Viper09]

Kyronix said: Right now it's a guild wide join like factions.

I read it as, that can be changed, and I hope it will.

I recall from the notes on this system (not notes on the test center publish) that VvV would be each individual player, not the entire guild. I think people need to keep in mind that they also said that VvV was being released in phases on test center and not all at once. So what we see now is likely to be very different from the final release.

 

[York_Siege]

I am not sure how turning off the town guards is suppose to help players that don't want to pvp. I know its not a popular opinion but PVP is boring... it has been for years and i don't see how this change is going to make it not... PVP then and now boils down to connection speed and wallet size... nothing else... therefore it is boring and useless to those who don't wish to spend countless hours farming and selling to get a suit worth pvping in. I know that this isn't an issue on tram based shards but siege and mugan have a great deal of players that have no interest in pvp (or the hate speeches that goes along with pvp). it really does run people off. Fact is that after some discussion we have been cancelling events and other activities due to the patch. I think it's best said that if you give players a way to "grief" they will take it...
excluding the pvp changes of Vice vs Virtue, i don't see anything useful or interesting about this change.

 

[FrejaSP]

I believe one of the problems with testing it and missing comments about it is many fear to have an opinion as they risk to get smashed down in the debate and told they do not PvP, just like James Moriarty tried to do to me

 

[James Moriarty]

I believe one of the problems with testing it and missing comments about it is many fear to have an opinion as they risk to get smashed down in the debate and told they do not PvP, just like James Moriarty tried to do to me

You need to lighten up, I never tried to smash you down, YOU said your guild don't PvP much not me.

So why would a guild that doesn't PvP much want to join VvV. Your just bitter I called you bluff.

 

[cazador]

-The gump is too big and invasive
-there's no point to joining it
(No risk to reward)
-the artifacts are the exact same useless crap
-the 5 minute stat is a huge improvement

It's the exact same thing pretty much as factions without "teams and a backstory(SL,TB etc) , a real strategic objective , and the fun"

Good work!

 

[Promathia]

-The gump is too big and invasive
-there's no point to joining it
(No risk to reward)
-the artifacts are the exact same useless crap
-the 5 minute stat is a huge improvement

It's the exact same thing pretty much as factions without "teams and a backstory(SL,TB etc) , a real strategic objective , and the fun"

Good work!

Right........

I am glad we are all making judgements based on early testing on the core mechanics of the system.

 

[cazador]

Right........

I am glad we are all making judgements based on early testing on the core mechanics of the system.

It is what it is..those are my comments based on what I've seen. When they come out with Phase 2 I'll make judgements based off that..

 

[Promathia]

It is what it is..those are my comments based on what I've seen. When they come out with Phase 2 I'll make judgements based off that..

When they have even said, its early testing based on just the mechanics without the rewards and other things included.....

Yet you complain about the lack of rewards.

Ok then

 

[FrejaSP]

You need to lighten up, I never tried to smash you down, YOU said your guild don't PvP much not me.

So why would a guild that doesn't PvP much want to join VvV. Your just bitter I called you bluff.

Because we don't PvP much do not mean we do not have right to have an opinion and right to try to make this system useful for lesser PvP'ers too.
No I'm not bitter, I just hit back, when someone try to slap me

 

[cazador]

When they have even said, its early testing based on just the mechanics without the rewards and other things included.....

Yet you complain about the lack of rewards.

Ok then

Ok let me rephrase my views

- the gump is too invasive and big(for now)
- there is no risk to reward (yet)
- it's basically a glorified guild vs guild that has no rhyme or reason(yet)
-the artifacts are still crap(as of now)
-it's not really fun at all(for now)


In it's current phase of testing it's stupid (currently, but will change)

...better

 

[Promathia]

Ok let me rephrase my views

- the gump is too invasive and big(for now)
- there is no risk to reward (yet)
- it's basically a glorified guild vs guild that has no rhyme or reason(yet)
-the artifacts are still crap(as of now)
-it's not really fun at all(for now)


In it's current phase of testing it's stupid (currently, but will change)

...better

Very much so.

For anyone else, there isn't really much to test right now. We have the basic battles, the gump, and flagging. Also, getting people to pvp on TC is harder than it seems (Especially since everyone I ever attack on TC either runs into a house, or sets their ninja skill on the fly to animal form away).

 

[FrejaSP]

Very much so.
Also, getting people to pvp on TC is harder than it seems (Especially since everyone I ever attack on TC either runs into a house, or sets their ninja skill on the fly to animal form away).

Or you from Siege and can't copy your char and gear

 

[James Moriarty]

Because we don't PvP much do not mean we do not have right to have an opinion and right to try to make this system useful for lesser PvP'ers too.
No I'm not bitter, I just hit back, when someone try to slap me

If I had slapped you, you would have known. Its all in how you read it, if you think in YOUR head im being aggressive then that's how your going to read it. I find aggressive people tend to think everyone is being aggressive towards them.

If you or your guild don't PvP much then you have no right in dictating how the system should play out. That's the problem with these boards too many people want to have a say on what other people do when they themselves don't participate or don't participate very much, but still feel that they should say how others play or have fun.

 

[Viper09]

Jeeze people, lay off the freaken drama already. Take it ro PM or something, there is no need to trash a thread that actually has a good purpose...

 

[Tina Small]

I suspect more people would be interested in testing this new system if more information could be made available at this time at least hinting at things like the rewards for participating, the back story behind the changes, what is going to happen to existing faction-specific items, etc. Answering some of the questions people have already raised in other threads would also be nice too.

And it would help if the people who are apparently already in the focus group wouldn't rush so quickly to jump all over people who do express an opinion. After seeing it happen too often, people just decide to keep their opinions to themselves and may just decide to wait and see the whole system fail because they are tired of being lambasted for having and expressing opinions about something that is important to them. If you have inside information, at least have the courtesy and respect for your fellow players who do NOT have such inside information to not lord it over them by acting like your opinion is the only one that counts. Maybe act like you actually want to see feedback, in whatever shape it comes, instead of only wanting rosy, glowing comments about how awesome something is.

This is still a system that is "in the rough." Don't expect everyone to love it from day 1, especially when they feel like important information is being withheld from 99% of the playerbase.

 

[Promathia]

Some of the "Feedback" hasn't even been feedback, its been complaining and whining over nothing.

 

[Smoot]

-The gump is too big and invasive
-there's no point to joining it
(No risk to reward)
-the artifacts are the exact same useless crap
-the 5 minute stat is a huge improvement

It's the exact same thing pretty much as factions without "teams and a backstory(SL,TB etc) , a real strategic objective , and the fun"

Good work!

i agree the gump is huge. it should be alot smaller
so far, looks like its main purpose is to solve the problems associated with factions. being stated by a non faction member just because a factioner did a little damage.
I like that theres a battle for a town, i would assume there is a purpose to take a town, an incentive, or else no one will do it.

looking forward to the next phases of the system.

 

[FrejaSP]

I feel it is important, that it works with the whole shard, not split the shards in PvP'ers and non PvP'ers. That's why I like changes to how guilds join the system so the whole guild don't have to join.
People are not born PvP'ers, they start with seeing PvP going on and then they maybe want to try. That will work fine if they see guildmembers fight, maybe in a RP conflict and they then want to join to help.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

How is it possible that so many 'supposed' pvpers in this thread and the other VvV threads can keep asking what the rewards are? Who cares what the rewards are if it is good pvp?
How about you start testing and asking questions about the actual pvp mechanics before you start whining for pixel shinies?

Must be the same people that whined about how much factions sucked yet couldn't live without the easily obtained vending machine uber gear they got for doing nothing more then signing up and buying silver

How can the devs expect to get any serious or valuable input on a new (or existing) pvp system when they know that the huge majority of people commenting on it are completely biased?

*shakes head*

 

[FrejaSP]

I hope we do not see any VvV artifacts on Siege, people should join for the PvP not to get upper gear

 

[James Moriarty]

After the last faction nerf nearly everyone has made suits that do not require faction arties. It should stay that way. I don't see a need for items that ONLY people in VvV can use

 

[FrejaSP]

After the last faction nerf nearly everyone has made suits that do not require faction arties. It should stay that way. I don't see a need for items that ONLY people in VvV can use

At least here we do agree

 

[Tina Small]

How is it possible that so many 'supposed' pvpers in this thread and the other VvV threads can keep asking what the rewards are? Who cares what the rewards are if it is good pvp?
How about you start testing and asking questions about the actual pvp mechanics before you start whining for pixel shinies?

Must be the same people that whined about how much factions sucked yet couldn't live without the easily obtained vending machine uber gear they got for doing nothing more then signing up and buying silver

How can the devs expect to get any serious or valuable input on a new (or existing) pvp system when they know that the huge majority of people commenting on it are completely biased?

*shakes head*

For myself, I don't really care what the rewards are in terms of gear because if I participate, it will be with thief characters who don't need much in the way of gear. However, I know that a lot of the negative feedback around the changes to faction gear came from people who played on smaller shards who felt compelled to make characters on multiple shards in order to find PvP activity on a more frequent basis. They had become pretty reliant on the faction gear for being able to quickly and rather inexpensively provide gear to the characters they made on other shards. So if those people are still playing or are following threads like this to see if it is worth coming back, I suspect they are very much interested in finding out if this system is going to be able to provide them with usable gear on those shards where they have now-barely-dressed or very poorly dressed PvP characters. Not everyone in that situation has shard shields in order to be able to freely move stuff from shard to shard and people they once might have relied upon to help with transfers might have quit playing by now.

I really think we also need a lot more clarity around how you will eventually join this system. It isn't all that helpful to be told something works one way "for now" and be left to guess how it is going to work in the final system. With as small as the population in UO is these days, people may need more time than they needed in the past to form up new guilds or alliances, if the rules for joining and flagging are going to be significantly different than what they are today for faction guilds.

And I don't think it hurts to remind people that there is a fair amount of skepticism out there about why all of this is even being done. We were basically told that the dev team didn't want to mess with factions, with the implication being that it would be too time-consuming to figure out how to fix it. But here we are, two years after this system was first brought up, with it still being worked on. I think it's understandable that people who enjoyed the faction system are having some trouble understanding why it's necessary to trash a whole existing system just because it was "too much work to fix it" when developing the new system is taking so long. I won't say any more than that because I don't want to come off as being "too negative." However, I really think that whole situation is going to really affect how many people get involved in testing and then ultimately how many people even try the new system. I think it is very important that the dev team try their best to acknowledge what is being lost in favor of this new system because for some people, it was a very big part of their game play for quite a few years and it is very sad to see it just being swept aside with so little acknowledgement of that fact.

 

[cazador]

How is it possible that so many 'supposed' pvpers in this thread and the other VvV threads can keep asking what the rewards are? Who cares what the rewards are if it is good pvp?
How about you start testing and asking questions about the actual pvp mechanics before you start whining for pixel shinies?

Must be the same people that whined about how much factions sucked yet couldn't live without the easily obtained vending machine uber gear they got for doing nothing more then signing up and buying silver

How can the devs expect to get any serious or valuable input on a new (or existing) pvp system when they know that the huge majority of people commenting on it are completely biased?

*shakes head*

How is it whining or being biased? Right now it's you go to the town and win yay! There's nothing to fight over..there's no reason to be there other than to pvp..it's like yew gate fighting with a chest thumping result as of now..that's fine for me. The problem "IS"!! This system was supposed to revive PvP idk maybe have people come back or trammy's try out pvp..neither of which will happen for 0 reason. A COD type capture the flag mini game with no real purpose won't do any of that."THAT IS FEEDBACK" I don't care if it's phase 0 or phase 200..that's a fact! Take it for what's it worth and troll on brother..

As for uber Faction Artie's..seriously? Since reforging they are god awful useless..make artifacts worth having that can't be replicated or close to with a shame piece, or without tons of hours farming silver so
You can replace it..I want people to fight against! Not the same 3 guilds spread over 4 shards..

 

[Tina Small]

After the last faction nerf nearly everyone has made suits that do not require faction arties.

This may be true for people who continued playing. However, I don't think it is necessarily true for people who completely quit playing and who might now want to come back. Quite a few of them also may have moved their best characters to bigger shards like Atlantic and then mothballed them. I know that several of us tried hard here in UHall to offer assistance to people who were being drastically affected by the changes to faction gear a few years ago, but not everyone wanted to go through the process of changing up everything they were using and they just quit playing.

So now if those people do want to come back, I think it should be expected that they are going to have questions about whether or not this system is going to provide them with usable gear. However, if too many people here jump all over the questions about what the gear/rewards are going to be, then there is a large risk that those people who may be sitting on the sidelines waiting to see if they should try UO again will just stay away.

Is that really what people want? Wouldn't it be better to start at least passing along information so people who might want to come back or who are just barely hanging on can make some decisions? I know people are going to say just wait and everything will become clear "soon" for all the unwashed, unworthies out there. But the longer we exist with this situation of the 0.5% "in the know" people lording it over other people that they know something most everyone else doesn't know, the more alienated people become. It's pretty obvious who has the inside information these days and I don't doubt there are other people who wonder, like I do, just how well that NDA is being followed.

Oh well. I guess we'll just have to see how the chips fall and who sticks around and who decides to bother getting involved with all of this.

 

[Smoot]

A reward doesnt have to gear, it does help to be Something tho.

I like the idea that the town is just a battleground, a place a battle is likely to happen. but its also nice if theres an incentive to take a town and keep control over it. Gold, a minor buff, deco. i dunno just something.

 

[James Moriarty]

This may be true for people who continued playing. However, I don't think it is necessarily true for people who completely quit playing and who might now want to come back.

I just came back to UO to find my entire guild has quit after the last faction nerf. 8 people, I have tried to get them to come back and play UO and told them about the changes in the game. None of them will be coming back.

So while 1 or 2 people may come back, I doubt it will draw that many people back into the game. Most of them have moved on to other games and are happy

 

[The Zog historian]

Ok let me rephrase my views

- the gump is too invasive and big(for now)
- there is no risk to reward (yet)
- it's basically a glorified guild vs guild that has no rhyme or reason(yet)
-the artifacts are still crap(as of now)
-it's not really fun at all(for now)


In it's current phase of testing it's stupid (currently, but will change)

...better

Your points were just fine as previously phrased. You were offering legitimate criticism that implicitly were of how things are "for now" in the testing stage, seeking legitimate improvement . Were it a hundred balrons causing problems during a town fight, or a boss-type monster stampeding around, that would clearly be wrong. But there's no "right" or "wrong" in these subjective matters you enumerated.

What's the incentive for my guild to stop doing spawns in favor of taking over a town? I don't see it yet.

 

[Prime.]

Basically what I understand from VvV is it's going to be a flopped system with less appeal then Yew Gate/Factions/Spawn pvp that's focus team centers around ten people-two of which actually pvp.

I'll put money on VvV being active for the first few weeks because it's "new" and be just as dead as Factions are now. The issue isn't lack of interest in the current PvP systems, it's the cheats/glitches/hacks, dead servers , unbalanced/outdated skills/templates, negative behaviors from the current pvpers that's the issue.

My opinion, developers are wasting their time, instead of a VvV focus group, work on a PvP focus group with players that actually pvp.

Edit: I do appreciate the attempt to take a look at PvP and it's current systems by its devs. Hopefully I'm proven wrong and this does bring back some life to PvP. I'm just not counting on it.

 

[PJay]

How do i get started where is the faction o matic???
Been away for a few months new job keeps me busy and the glorious British weather right now