Woodland, plate (nonmedable) armor, why are they helpfull to a dexer ?

[popps]

I often hear suggestions, for dexers, to use woodland, plate and other non medable armor.

Why is that ?

I mean, it is my undestanding that being able to chain special moves, which use quite plenty of mana, is a vital necessity of a dexer.

Now, clearly non medable armor does not help with the build up of mana because being not medable.

Sure, it provides less stamina loss than medable armor but my question is, whether the trade off is an acceptable one and why....

Perhaps, with HML, LMC and MR it is possible to "make it up" for the handicap of the armor not being medable? In such a case, since one has to make a compromise among how many modifiers and up to what capacity can beon a suit, among these modifiers which is/are the most important to make it possible with mana "keep up" to chain special moves ? Hit Mana Leech ? Lower Mana cost ? Mana Regen ?

Also, in what cases should a dexer go for woodland, and in what other cases go for plate or any other non medable armor like studde, chain, ringmail or else ?

Thanks.

 

[Tuan]

Yes, chaining specials takes a lot of mana. I use 24 mana / 1.25 seconds to chain specials. I have 100% hll on my broadsword. I hit for a range from 150-200 damage. Call it an average of 175. That means that per hit, I will leech, on average .15*175 = 26.25 mana. Generally speaking, I do not need to regen mana mid fight. Sure, occasionally I will land a special, leech 0 mana, and then get hit with mana drain spell, which drops me to 20something mana, and I maybe can't do a special on 1 swing, but having regen'd an extra 1 mana in that timeframe won't matter.

The only way non-meddable armor really helps a warrior regen mana is by the 'passive meditation' which is some multiplier of med skill and intelligence. In an elf, this matters little, since med is 0 (presumably). In a human, you'll have some regen happening.

I did some testing. In med vs non-med armor, and yes, I was able to quantify a difference in regen rate, but the difference was quite small.

The tradeoff is acceptible because for a warrior leeching mana, the more often you hit, the more mana you have. See above where I demonstrate that I leech, literally, more mana than I can use. Same for HP - my hp regen rate has little to do with how much HPR I have, and much more to do with how often I hit things.

The biggest (read: only) factor in how often I hit things is how much stamina I have. Getting hit drops my stamina. I have SR on my sword, but only 34%, vs 100% hml, and a guaranteed 20% HLL from VE. I need to keep stamina up, so that I can keep HP and mana up. With only 35% HSL, I occasionally will need to toss a divine fury out there to recoup some stamina - but generally not.

I think that in ALL cases you should go for woodland, becuase you get a "free" mod from the heartwood material itself (note: reforge, POF, imbue, THEN ENHANCE).

If you want to run no HSL on your weapon, then I guess metal armor makes sense. You could swap HSL on the weapon for HLD, and then craft a helmet instead of wearing the reading glasses for instance.

I have been meaning to do so, but just haven't gotten around to it, to compare the difference in stam loss when wearing leather, vs studded, vs metal armor.

That all being said, I'm wearing a studded suit right now, because it was cheaper and easier to make. I was able to make it with what I had laying around, vs needing to go buy wood and saws to make a woodland suit.

 

[Lefty]

1. With the right set up it allows you to leech more mana than used.
2. Almost nullifies the need for Vamp form on Sampires. Thus the need for Necro. Plate, SS, Leech = God Mode
3. As like #1 gives the ability to chain Special Moves, thus offering a bigger dexer dump.

 

[Tuan]

If you run a weapon with 50% HSL, I don't see why the decreased dex loss from being hit will matter. HSL leeches an amount of stamina = to the damage done.

If I've been hit hard enough that I need to leech >153 stamina away on any given hit (my lowest AI) then that means I've taken at least 155 damage since last time I hit whatever I'm fighting, and I'm dead anyway.

 

[Obsidian]

Yes, Popps, with continuous big hits you will be able to leech more than than you would ever regen with med. The key is big HML on your weapon at max swing speed and and the biggest damage output you can produce. armor Ignore is a good way for big hits(but not the only way and in some cases some ways are better like double strike).

 

[popps]

1. With the right set up it allows you to leech more mana than used.
2. Almost nullifies the need for Vamp form on Sampires. Thus the need for Necro. Plate, SS, Leech = God Mode
3. As like #1 gives the ability to chain Special Moves, thus offering a bigger dexer dump.

SS as for Spirit Speak ? If so, why have Spirit Speak without Necromancy, what for ?

 

[popps]

Yes, Popps, with continuous big hits you will be able to leech more than than you would ever regen with med. The key is big HML on your weapon at max swing speed and and the biggest damage output you can produce. armor Ignore is a good way for big hits(but not the only way and in some cases some ways are better like double strike).

I see, thanks, as for "big" HML what do you exactly mean ?

Reason I am asking, is that even with very slow 2-handed weapons (an imbuing weight of 600...), once HLL gets reforged at 100% (which is needed to stay alive, without VE), usually HML does not get higher than 80 something....

 

[CorwinXX]

Med armor usually gives you less than 0.1 mana per second So really there is no noticeable difference in most situations. I doubt you are going to wait 5 minutes waiting for mana for a special moves so you are need some other ways to gain mana.

 

[Duncan Drake]

For me 75 hml is enough (bladed staff). But you should not go lower

 

[Tuan]

So, lets assume you're at the damage cap...
Broadsword = 13-17 damage range, speed 3.25 does AIs for 153 - 201. HML @ 100 = avg leech per hit of 26.25.
bladed staff = 14-17 damage range, speed 3.00 does AIs for 165-201. HML @ 100 avg leech per hit of 27.45, HML @ 80 = 21.96. For Duncan, with 75% HML looks like he leeches 20.5 mana per hit on average.

If each AI takes you 24 mana (like for me), then you ought to be able to do quite a few in a row before you need to not do one.

They cost me 24 mana because I don't have the 300 skill point reduction, but I DO have 55% LMC.

If you have the 300 skill point reduction, but have 40 LMC they'll cost you 24 also, if you have 45 LMC (wearing metal) they'll cost you 22, if you're in studded they'll cost you 18.

So in theory with a bladed staff at 80% HML you can chain AIs indefinitely. In practice, the RNG, mana drain, needing to cast something may have something to say about that.

Also, if you're willing to spend a few skill points into lumberjacking (or are a human and have JOAT) consider:
hatchet = 13-16 damage range, but I assume equals out to the same as the bladed staff because of the LJ damage bonus. Is speed of 2.75 meaning you only need 5 SSI @ 150 stamina to swing it at 1.25 seconds.

 

[CorwinXX]

100% HML = 0-40% mana leached
75% HML = 15% at average
165-201 damage and 75 HML = 27.45 (at average) mana per hit = enough to chain AI most of the time

 

[Tuan]

100% HML = 0-40% mana leached
75% HML = 15% at average
165-201 damage and 75 HML = 27.45 (at average) mana per hit = enough to chain AI most of the time

Yep, Corwin is correct... it is HIT LIFE LEECH that leeches between 0 and 30%... My mistake, I thought they were both capped at 30%.

That being said, it sure seems like I've gone far out of my way to reforge 100% HML broadswords for not a lot of reward... Seems like I'd be better served with 80% HML and then 45% HSL. At least on the weapon I use for UEVs.