Am I missing something (thoughts on PvP)

[Yadd of Legends]

Well, I was testing a corrupted crystal portal last night and just happened to be on my gargoyle crafter (no weapon skills, no weapon) and just happened to pick fel despise (who knows why?). Just as I landed in front of the dungeon, a red on an ethereal boura (that’s about all I had time to notice except for his name, which I won’t type here) came riding out and killed me – out of pure reflex, I imagine. Of course I died.

Now, I have very little fel experience, other than thunting and mining in fel, but I understand that killing blues is what reds do. Maybe the guy will buy one of my forged pardons to cancel out that murder count. So I can’t complain about getting attacked when taking my weak blue character into the nasty red world. But I felt pretty irritated anyway – human nature, I suppose – and it made me wish I had a PvP character I could have jumped on and gotten revenge.

Then I started wondering which of my characters I could convert to PvP the quickest or what it would take to build a viable PvP character. Then I decided I simply had too much work to do in Trammel Candyland to be bothered with it. Still, I wonder if I am missing something having never done PvP in the seven years I've played.

 

[Captn Norrington]

Personally, my experience with Atlantic PvP, is if you just want to duel friends or fight in groups almost any template will work. However, if you want to PvP solo or with a partner at popular places like champion spawns or felucca yew gate you will pretty much need a 100% dedicated PvP character with specifically made armor, weapons, skills and stats which will end up costing in the hundreds of millions usually, not sure if it is the same way on other shards or not, but on Atlantic making a PvP character is a very large expense, and requires a ton of time.

 

[Yadd of Legends]

Thanks, Captn, sort of confirms what I was thinking.

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[Gedgerez Tesherd]

What the Captn Norrington said, but don't let it discourage you. You missed an extra reason to play the game those 7 years. Get out there & use a 60s resist plain imbue suit if you can't afford more for the time being. Most shards people ignore Fel too often, & that bothers me greatly seeing minimal Fel activity across most shards. You may have fun, you may not, but won't know till you try it. Just don't take a death personal if & when it happens, remember its all in good fun. Most people avoid Fel because they're more or less afraid to apply them self, defeated before they began & what not. Don't give into fear, & keep your items insured properly, can't go wrong.

PS. avoid in game general chat while you pvp, it is a lot more pleasant not reading immaturity & propaganda.

 

[Lythos-]

The only thing Norrington said that's correct is that you need a dedicated pvp character. You CAN compete just fine in standard imbued gear.

The most important thing to pvp is finding your strength (a template you're good at) and learning your template inside and out.

 

[Winter]

... The most important thing to pvp is finding your strength (a template you're good at) and learning your template inside and out.

I have a 200ms ping most time, so I know I'll never be the fast-twitch type of person. That being said, what is the most survivable type of character to start out in PvP? It's no fun to try something new, such as PvP, and and die instantly.

 

[Picus of Napa]

PvP is the best part of the game and it would be a shame to dedicate all the effort of playing this game without trying a large portion. I'm sure that some group is willing to have you on board and it doesn't take that long to become decent with a good chance of living. Soon enough you might be able to make that red char and who knows what fun you have after that.

 

[Lythos-]

I have a 200ms ping most time, so I know I'll never be the fast-twitch type of person. That being said, what is the most survivable type of character to start out in PvP? It's no fun to try something new, such as PvP, and and die instantly.

No pvper has ever played this game without dying. You're not going to go out and be the best right off. It takes practice and patience to learn. You can make a high end character with a billion gold suit. If you don't know how to play it, you'll still die to a skilled character wearing garbage for a suit.

That being said, I have seen players across the pond keep up with me on my home coast shard.

Only you can decide what template works best for your situation. I could tell you a template and it absolutely blow for you. When I had a higher ping though, an archer worked well for me.

 

[Picus at the office]

I've never been able to play a mage so a dexxer of sorts has been my choice. That said I've seen mages who I found near impossible to kill even though they only had healing spells and pots yet I've seen many others who rolled the same and died in seconds. The same can be said for dexxers, though, I would say for a learning curve vs living a dexxer should provide a better base level. From what I saw if you have an end goal to be a mage start there but if you want to be a dexxer of sorts start there. Some of the best players I ever fought with or against stuck with one skill and tried to master those where the worst had "decent" mages and dexxers yet never mastered the base of either.

 

[Winter]

No pvper has ever played this game without dying. You're not going to go out and be the best right off. It takes practice and patience to learn. ...

I never meant to say that dying was the issue, just wanting to survive long enough to learn something about PvP. I know that I am going to suck, and I really don't care about that. Insta-dying to ganks just doesn't teach me anything, but surviving long enough to get a hit or two in might. That's all I was saying.

I've never been able to play a mage so a dexxer of sorts has been my choice. That said I've seen mages who I found near impossible to kill even though they only had healing spells and pots yet I've seen many others who rolled the same and died in seconds. The same can be said for dexxers, though, I would say for a learning curve vs living a dexxer should provide a better base level. From what I saw if you have an end goal to be a mage start there but if you want to be a dexxer of sorts start there. Some of the best players I ever fought with or against stuck with one skill and tried to master those where the worst had "decent" mages and dexxers yet never mastered the base of either.

Okay, that's much better advice for the novice (me!). I have no high-end goals at this time. I've got all the dexxer skills on stones, but just PvM suits. I think to start I might just start with a cheap blessed suit and some bandages.

 

[Viquire]

Welcome, to the real UO. It is an unfortunate side effect, that you will never again be free to roam about trammel, without wondering what you might be missing out on.

The truth is, you don't have to create that uber character with leet gear. You will need powerscrolls, yes, but you need them anyway. A team of well equipped players can become a substantial force on the field. Solo is fun, team play is addictive.

 

[Picus at the office]

Imbuing will make you a suit that all PvP'rs dreamed about just a few years ago.

 

[Lythos-]

I never meant to say that dying was the issue, just wanting to survive long enough to learn something about PvP. I know that I am going to suck, and I really don't care about that. Insta-dying to ganks just doesn't teach me anything, but surviving long enough to get a hit or two in might. That's all I was saying.



Okay, that's much better advice for the novice (me!). I have no high-end goals at this time. I've got all the dexxer skills on stones, but just PvM suits. I think to start I might just start with a cheap blessed suit and some bandages.

You can learn a lot just by watching. The majority of pvpers have the exact same routine every.single.time. They go the same route. They cast the same combo's. They do the same specials in a certain order. They lure you to the exact same spots for a gank ect ect. Once you figure the person out you can start pounding them into submission.

Like Picus said, a plain imbued suit is really good enough. Just make sure you have the caps for HC/DCI.

 

[FrejaSP]

The diff between fighting a PK vs fighting a hard monsters is, you can't just run away, hide and heal up and you never know a PK's next move.
One important thing is to heal as soon as possible, don't wait to you are half heal or less unless you want to die.
Second, focus on staying alive before you try to kill him. You need to be alive to kill someone.
I'm female and 59 years and I don't die that easy and sometimes I'm not the one who die

 

[Yadd of Legends]

Good thoughts, thanks. The gargoyle that the red killed the other night is a legendary imbuer, and my sampire and bard and thunter can farm all the materials for whatever suit I might want to make, if I don't already have them on hand, so that's no problem. Power scrolls - that's why I was thinking it would more cost effective to convert an existing character that already has most of the caps. I don't think I'm fast and clever enough to play a PvP mage and lean more toward a dexxer or archer of some kind. As I said, I do get tired of fel champ spawns being off limits to me (other than sneaking down to despise on my sampire when nobody seems to be around to stop me).

 

[Martell]

For starting out in PVP, if you don't want to die a lot and are playing solo:

Easiest Temp - Stealth Archer
-Survive using hiding/stealth/smokebombs/ninjitsu
-Easy to observe what other people doing
-Don't need a high end suit and only a few weps (Heavy xbow (dismounts), xbow or reg bow (mortal strike), and a comp bow (armor ignore and moving shot)

Something slightly harder - Fencer Archer
- Ideal temp - 120 Archery/fencing/resist, 100+ anat/healing, 90 tactics (room for ninjitsu/bushido/poison too)
- Less survivability than a stealth archer but more damage output and usually higher health (pots are a must)
- Will need a decent suit since you can't hide (ie. 70s resist, max hci/dci, high stamina, high lmc)
- Only need two weps really (war fork for disarm/bleed, comp bow for moving shot/ai)

Those are in my mind the two easiest and most effective templates for those interested in pvp. (throwers are popular too but require stam suits which can be pricey).

 

[Lythos-]

Good thoughts, thanks. The gargoyle that the red killed the other night is a legendary imbuer, and my sampire and bard and thunter can farm all the materials for whatever suit I might want to make, if I don't already have them on hand, so that's no problem. Power scrolls - that's why I was thinking it would more cost effective to convert an existing character that already has most of the caps. I don't think I'm fast and clever enough to play a PvP mage and lean more toward a dexxer or archer of some kind. As I said, I do get tired of fel champ spawns being off limits to me (other than sneaking down to despise on my sampire when nobody seems to be around to stop me).

Honestly, the only powerscroll you need Is wep skill and resist unless you're going to focus on hybrid temps like an evade bush dexxer, archer tamer or a ninja which I don't suggest doing starting out. It leaves plenty of room to play around with to make a template you'll not only be happy playing but something you can become successful playing as well.

 

[Lythos-]

For starting out in PVP, if you don't want to die a lot and are playing solo:

Easiest Temp - Stealth Archer
-Survive using hiding/stealth/smokebombs/ninjitsu
-Easy to observe what other people doing
-Don't need a high end suit and only a few weps (Heavy xbow (dismounts), xbow or reg bow (mortal strike), and a comp bow (armor ignore and moving shot)

Something slightly harder - Fencer Archer
- Ideal temp - 120 Archery/fencing/resist, 100+ anat/healing, 90 tactics (room for ninjitsu/bushido/poison too)
- Less survivability than a stealth archer but more damage output and usually higher health (pots are a must)
- Will need a decent suit since you can't hide (ie. 70s resist, max hci/dci, high stamina, high lmc)
- Only need two weps really (war fork for disarm/bleed, comp bow for moving shot/ai)

Those are in my mind the two easiest and most effective templates for those interested in pvp. (throwers are popular too but require stam suits which can be pricey).

The problem with the stealth archer is there are only 2 builds. One doesn't have resist and the other doesn't have any form of healing other than pots. Para bait characters are no fun starting out and the lack of healing could frustrate a new pvper.

Fencer archer has always been great but again, to a new player knowing when to switch weps might be a little confusing.

A straight archer I think would be best to start on. Start with a comp bow then as they learn they can advance to para bow/dismount bow then advance up to a fencer archer. As they learn they can train vollems to help with damage output.

 

[Picus at the office]

Don't play a stealther. While I have 2 that I use to play when there were more players one can become reliant on the hiding aspect and you won't win a fight hiding. The only stealther that I could advise using is a death strike guy as that can place a hurting on almost any temp, as a rule to myself I NEVER carried smoke bombs and it made me watch what I was doing closely.

If you are to play a garg make sure you change your UOA view setting to Skeleton 1, IMO it is the closest thing to running a speed hack. AND LEARN WHAT YOUR STATUS BAR SYMBOLS ARE...I'd love to add more but I don't play much so lots of ideas have left my head.

 

[Smoot]

Archer is a a very easy template. Remember you need 300 combat skill points to get you lmc bonus (you probably know that for pvm anyway) Stealth can fill that up easy, or a second weapon skill (disarm archer) Bushido is a great filler just for confindence heals.

No need for chiv unless your healing with it (protection chiv is easy heals)

You really need pots, for heals, cures, stamina, and to get your stats up. alot of pvm only players ignor pots in pvp and a severely limited because of it

Also remember the damage cap is 35, so you dont need 120 tactics. i play 100 tactics and very low damage increase on some archer templates. damage increase on most pvp templates is only for moving shot, mortal strike hits, and base hit.


Just start. youll figure out what you need, from how your attacks are working out, and from how your being killed.

 

[pacific cruiser]

Also ask around there are a lot of guilds and people who love to teach new people the art of pvp and the fun you can have. In my opinion start out with a group and as you learn and get better, you then can start soloing out on your own. and as most have said fell is a quiet place now, kinda sad once it was a thriving metropolis of activity.

 

[Martell]

And back on track, OP what you're missing out on in PVP: Getting to kill people with inflated egos (like Zog) or watching them cower and not accept your fights (like Zog will probably do).

 

[cazador]

Here's a few actual facts..

Once this thread has been locked these are the only facts that will remain.

1. We derailed the poor OP's thread
2. You will still think you're right.
3. You will still be wrong.
4. The people that actually took time to sift thru the books written will most likely still be split 50/50 on who they believe..
5. I for a "fact" know which 50% will be right.
6. When you die PvPing you'll still think it's because they cheated..and aren't better.


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[Lorax_Pacific]

Archer is a a very easy template.

<snip>

Also remember the damage cap is 35, ...<snip>


Just start. youll figure out what you need, from how your attacks are working out, and from how your being killed.

Just a technicality there is no maximum damage in pvp, but armor ignore has a maximum damage of 35.

Don't want to distract from good points and thread just wanted to clarify.

-Lorax

 

[Yadd of Legends]

Here's a few actual facts..

Once this thread has been locked these are the only facts that will remain.

1. We derailed the poor OP's thread

etc, etc etc

The OP was "am I missing something" when it comes to PvP? The thread eventually became an argument over whether there are speed hacks that can exceed the limit set by the server (I think, or something like that). I read all the posts but don't really care. I don't have the insight to even try to figure that out. My original interest was not PvP in itself but in defending any scrolls if I get attacked while working a spawn. I think I got a few good remarks on that question, thanks.
Edit: Please free to continue the argument, though.

 

[Picus of Napa]

All I can further add is kill people in UO is the best way to spend time in UO. It's so much better if you have friends to do it with but alone is fun also....

 

[cazador]

etc, etc etc

The OP was "am I missing something" when it comes to PvP? The thread eventually became an argument over whether there are speed hacks that can exceed the limit set by the server (I think, or something like that). I read all the posts but don't really care. I don't have the insight to even try to figure that out. My original interest was not PvP in itself but in defending any scrolls if I get attacked while working a spawn. I think I got a few good remarks on that question, thanks.
Edit: Please free to continue the argument, though.

Well if you aren't interested in pvp the best way to protect the scrolls if they waited till after u killed it..never go to star room..generally if the waited it's fielded up for a trap..just run an alternate route. Have a macro made and a rune book with your safe point as default and have the macro sacred journey target your book..evasion/confidence while u run away u shouldn't die..keep potions on you and disarm your weapon for a quick cure/heal/refresh if your in a jam..and if you get raided prior to the champ falling and have no friends on and no desire to fight for it..just run out and chalk up to a loss


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[Martell]

etc, etc etc

The OP was "am I missing something" when it comes to PvP? The thread eventually became an argument over whether there are speed hacks that can exceed the limit set by the server (I think, or something like that). I read all the posts but don't really care. I don't have the insight to even try to figure that out. My original interest was not PvP in itself but in defending any scrolls if I get attacked while working a spawn. I think I got a few good remarks on that question, thanks.
Edit: Please free to continue the argument, though.

If you're just trying to survive a raid make sure you're not spawning on a sampire. Spawning on any dexxer solo is stupid (you'll get caught in the spawn if raided and you have to hold your ground if you want to fight back, fielding/teleporting is pretty crucial when avoiding a raid).

If you're just trying to survive a raid and get out with your loot then I'd suggest spawning as a mystic/mage/necro (wraith form + hailstorm + ROC when spawning and just stoneform + protect + cleansing wind when running from a raid (learn to throw down fields/walls once you get some practice)).

If you actually want to fight the people raiding you, I'd go with a mystic/mage with inscribe, weaving, or nox.

Edit - if spawning as a mystic/necro/mage you will only need 60 necro so you can use wraith form. Put the other skill in nox, ninja, or med.

 

[Yadd of Legends]

Well if you aren't interested in pvp the best way to protect the scrolls if they waited till after u killed it..never go to star room..generally if the waited it's fielded up for a trap..just run an alternate route. Have a macro made and a rune book with your safe point as default and have the macro sacred journey target your book..evasion/confidence while u run away u shouldn't die..keep potions on you and disarm your weapon for a quick cure/heal/refresh if your in a jam..and if you get raided prior to the champ falling and have no friends on and no desire to fight for it..just run out and chalk up to a loss


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The star room is where you call the harrower, isn't it? I think that's a bit beyond what I'd want to try alone, or with a sampire even with a grojup. Taking Baracoon as an example, I've done it four times fairly recently on my sampire. Three times nobody showed up and I got to keep the scrolls. Once I got raided just before baracoon spawned, and, like you said, I took off and left them have it. They were more interested in grabbing the scrolls off the champ than bothering me at that point, so I just had to swallow the fact that I had just wasted an hour killing off the spawn for somebody else to take the scrolls - but I guess getting lucky three out of four times wasn't bad. I think that might be changing, though, as I've seen more reds transferring over to my shard lately just because the pickings are easier.

 

[Yadd of Legends]

If you're just trying to survive a raid make sure you're not spawning on a sampire. Spawning on any dexxer solo is stupid (you'll get caught in the spawn if raided and you have to hold your ground if you want to fight back, fielding/teleporting is pretty crucial when avoiding a raid).

If you're just trying to survive a raid and get out with your loot then I'd suggest spawning as a mystic/mage/necro (wraith form + hailstorm + ROC when spawning and just stoneform + protect + cleansing wind when running from a raid (learn to throw down fields/walls once you get some practice)).

If you actually want to fight the people raiding you, I'd go with a mystic/mage with inscribe, weaving, or nox.

Edit - if spawning as a mystic/necro/mage you will only need 60 necro so you can use wraith form. Put the other skill in nox, ninja, or med.

I suppose you're right that spawning on a sampire is stupid, but it's fun when it works and not fun when it doesn't work. But you're right, the sampire has no chance of defending any loot if raided. I have a mystic mage that's almost legendary that I've never tried a fel spawn with yet - sounds like a good idea.

 

[Widow Maker]

I solo spawned for years and years. It's a gamble. BUT..it is FAR more fun to spawn with a couple of your red friends hanging around (especially if YOU are one of the reds). Plan on buying lots of the amnesty scrolls on your blue spawner, it's impossible to not get in on the killing, once the fever hits you.

 

[cazador]

The star room is where you call the harrower, isn't it? I think that's a bit beyond what I'd want to try alone, or with a sampire even with a grojup. Taking Baracoon as an example, I've done it four times fairly recently on my sampire. Three times nobody showed up and I got to keep the scrolls. Once I got raided just before baracoon spawned, and, like you said, I took off and left them have it. They were more interested in grabbing the scrolls off the champ than bothering me at that point, so I just had to swallow the fact that I had just wasted an hour killing off the spawn for somebody else to take the scrolls - but I guess getting lucky three out of four times wasn't bad. I think that might be changing, though, as I've seen more reds transferring over to my shard lately just because the pickings are easier.

No I'm saying when u finish a spawn..to try not to go through the gate to star room..people set up traps


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[Yadd of Legends]

No I'm saying when u finish a spawn..to try not to go through the gate to star room..people set up traps


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Ok, thanks

 

[kelmo]

I have removed more than half of the posts (38) for those keeping count. I will be more than a little displeased if this excellent thread/question gets derailed again.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I will address the last sentence in your post, only: Are you missing something.

I have PvPed more actively, more avidly, and more successfully than most people (my opponents in particular) ever have found it convenient to admit. And, truth be told, more than I often like to admit or think about. I have had great defeats but also great victories, and honestly I see them as two sides of the same coin. Both are inevitable.

My answer to that question is: Apart from the mere fact of having done it, the rewards that are unique to Fel (and yes contrary to what you see on these boards they 100% do exist), and practice for PvPing for some RP purpose......Then, in my judgment, no, you're missing nothing. Or, at least, nothing good.

Whether one or more of those three reasons is enough for you to PvP is a personal decision for you.

-Galen's player

 

[cazador]

All you'd be missing is a heavily over looked part of the game..mostly at the fault of the devs for giving it nothing new for so long..it's a stale buggy part of the game..take this for perspective..it's like being a trammy in Doom, and not getting anything else added to game for 10 years except for a spawn that produces deco UO would have been even more dead than currently many moons ago if that happened..




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[Widow Maker]

If you enjoy epic successes along with the chance of some truly adrenaline pumping failures, then PvPing is for you. You will get overly excited, scared, elated hand shaking moments added to your gaming experience. How could you pay good money for a game and not experience that? I couldn't.

 

[cazador]

If you enjoy epic successes along with the chance of some truly adrenaline pumping failures, then PvPing is for you. You will get overly excited, scared, elated hand shaking moments added to your gaming experience. How could you pay good money for a game and not experience that? I couldn't.

The problem is, there's no reason to pvp..I pvp every time I log in..but find it usually becomes a quick stint as yew gate fighting isn't exactly exciting..


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[Orgional Farimir]

The problem is, there's no reason to pvp..I pvp every time I log in..but find it usually becomes a quick stint as yew gate fighting isn't exactly exciting..


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THIS!!!!!!!!!!

This is why I haven't played UO for 6 months, but for some reason I make sure my house doesn't fall. I guess it is for a slight hope that the devs might make a new reason to PvP.

 

[kelmo]

I am hopeful that the Vice and Virtue system will add some new thrills to the mix.

 

[Captn Norrington]

I truly hope I'm wrong, but based on what they've told us about virtue and vice...it really doesn't seem possible on most shards, everything they write about it makes it sound like 10+ people will be needed to make it fun, which works on Atlantic and a few other shards...but what about smaller shards, Napa for example, or Oceania.

 

[Picus of Napa]

Some of the real fun in UO PvP is the fact that it's not structured. They tried something like a team based go back with the arena's which didn't work because the fun in UO PvP is finding people to fight. People in groups(guilds) form friendships and strive to defeat other groups on the field where for a short time a winner can be had but having to find 5 people to fight another 5 people isn't that. The team just hasn't played UO PvP in a guild setting and doesn't understand or so I sadly think.

That said I have very deep and happy memories of the short lived PvP arena shard. Why that was ended I'll never understand but at the time it was great fun.

 

[Vexxed]

The problem is, there's no reason to pvp..I pvp every time I log in..but find it usually becomes a quick stint as yew gate fighting isn't exactly exciting..
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The best reason to PvP is or PvP itself. If you need some other reason to PvP then your missing the point completely. It is sadly true however that for PvP to even have a chance to begin you need a reason for the players to be in proximity in an area allowing PvP. I personally enjoy PvP more than any other thing in UO and there doesn't have to be any other perks for me to want to be involved. If my guild mate tells me there is a fight somewhere I don't need an idoc or possible spawn raid to lure me... The fight is enough. It is a given that we all do one of two things when we play uo....1) stuff we enjoy 2) all the rest that we don't. Typically if I can't find PvP I will do the boring stuff that gets me gear / gold etc.. now if that boring stuff was in fel and somewhere a fight could happen then great! 9 outta 10 though it's all in tram so blah... Make something that's WORTH doing that will drag people out of tram and you will promote PvP......

 

[FrejaSP]

I miss, when people was using the overland for traveling and was living around the player towns.
I had most fun, when hunting, lumbering, mining or just traveling was a risk for getting attacked of a lonely PK or maybe a small gank.
I also enjoyed, when our player town was raided of a red group and we all tried to fight them off and called for some anti PK guilds to come and help us.
I enjoyed to go to the road east of Brit to look for some trouble.
Later I went red and demanded gold and gems from people I found in east Brit. With a little RP, I rarely did risk trouble with the anti PK's as my victims had fun too and very little lose. If they was not minded for a fight, they could just handle me some gold or gems and stay alive or they could run to town with my arrows in their back. I would then keep them red lined but let them make it to town

I don't know what did happen, but even on Siege, no one use the overland now, I hope the global loot changes can help this but fear it is not enough.