Government System Feedback

[Nails Warstein]

First off, I remind everyone to remain civil when posting on this topic. The UO Team, EM Team, and Stratics moderators are sensitive about comments on this subject, so let's keep it as pithy and as positive as possible. If we want to see the changes we desire, we have to be diplomatic, patient, and understanding. This is an evolving concept, and as I understand, it is supposed to in theory evolve with role playing story lines to create the changes we desire with help from our citizens. The development team can only add so much to each publish, so I highly recommend we agree as governors with consensus in unison on the changes we would value most. Example would be if all Minoc governors can agree they want something on every shard that is a reasonable request, such as their own docks, then that one change might be possible in a future publish on all the shards. Let's begin.

Start with what do you like most about the system so far, try to come up with 2 - 5 responses.

Finish with what do you like least about the system so far, try to focus on 2 main responses. Again keep it pithy, straight, direct to the point, and remain calm.

 

[Nails Warstein]

PROS

Personally I enjoy the format of meeting at Blackthorn's castle at least once a month to share my thoughts in an orderly manner with my EMs direction as King Blackthorn. I think the stone system with buffs is a great start. I like being able to leave information on the bulletin. I also appreciate that citizens can donate to pay for trade buffs even though they are still expensive cost at 1 week for what they offer.

CONS

1 - Due to the low level of interest thus far, I think the governor's term in office is too short for a governor to rally their citizens to accomplish anything meaningful. I'd advocate a 6 month to 1 year term.

2 - It is my wish that each city governor from every shard can agree to ask the development team to create at least one magnificent new attraction for their city citizen's use only that would be so amazing that players would want to become a citizen of that city and vote just to enjoy this incredible attraction.

Examples I have thought up of would be additional moonglow teleporters, making the moonglow telescope useful for monitoring champion spawns, trinsic rideable dragon roost, give each city their own collection system like the Britain Library, Moonglow Zoo, and Vesper museum. Again only citizens could enjoy these attractions and by doing so make these cities relevant again.

 

[Flutter]

I've decided to retire as governor of Skara Brae.
While the love for the idea of the system lingers I don't feel we have enough player support to make it groundbreaking (on my shard).
Unless they've actually gotten a "governor" title I have found that most players on my shard have little interest. This makes the role play that I enjoy frustrating.
Also, the fact that we've only got one EM now on Catskills has brought Barnaby to a point where his real life must be piled up with requests from governors, EM duities, and general plans for events. A shard really needs two EMs no matter population. (this is my opinion through my experience of playing multiple shards). Without 2 EMs story-lines suffer, even in the sense of the governor system.
It's just not working out.

Additionally, with the changes in voting the most fun part of it all *for me*,( ie: campaigning and voting) has been sort of ruined. The best part thus far has been being able to help my friends get elected. Doesn't look like I will be able to do this next cycle. What a shame.

I also agree with Nails about making cities relevant again. Wouldn't it be great to have people actually want to use YOUR city to bank/trade in? Lots of ideas and what seems like little desire to implement them...

Please don't take my post as a criticism of the development team or the EM team. I know they work hard to keep the game fun and functional.

 

[Captn Norrington]

Pros: I like the concept of all the citizens working together to accomplish things, that the city events bring the community together, and the meetings with the king.

Cons: as nails said, a 3 month term really doesn't allow governors to accomplish much....especially when the supporters of the old governor are a bit reluctant to accept the new one, from what I've observed, the 1st month of the term is normally used giving out titles, setting trade deals, and planning things, the 2nd month is focused on doing events, and the 3rd month is focused on finishing event storylines, as well as planning the re-election campaign. If the terms were extended to 6 months or so, it would leave a good 3-4 months for events and community projects. plus there is the added bonus of people being less likely to say "oh I don't like the governor this term so I will just wait for their term to run out before doing anything with the community.

 

[Dot_Warner]

The Governor System was a neat idea, regardless of the fact it isn't what Mesanna said it would be at the 15th Anny. I think it has a lot of potential, but much of that (and a lot of good-will) is being squandered right now

I don't blame this on the EMs since I'm sure the decisions are being made at Mythic.


Like I suggested back in September, the governors need more tools.

- Communication: The message boards are nice, but only the most dedicated citizens well use them consistently.
1) I suggest that a new city channel be put in place much like party, guild and alliance chat. If you are a citizen of a city you will get the messages and have the ability to speak in the chat. Something like '/t Hi!' If you aren't a citizen of a city, you see nothing new. This would allow governors to easily make announcements without spamming the cesspool of global chat.

Before anyone suggests simply creating a chat channel in the global system, it won't work. People 1) have to know it exists and 2) have to log in which will take them out of whatever their normal channel is. People aren't going to do that just to sit in silence in the hope of city chatter.

2) City Heralds need to spam event announcements. If governors are expected/encouraged to hold events, we need a better method of announcing them in the hopes of reaching more people. Each of the nine heralds could be linked together to allow a governor to announce an event within the city system. So the Herald would bark something like: '[Britain] There will be a scavenger hunt at the Cat's Lair on 11/30 at 4pm.'

Since there are only nine governors per shard it is unlikely that one would abuse this ability. If someone does, make it grounds for immediate dismissal.


- City Requests: This is where we bang our heads against a wall. This is where all shards have to be treated equal and where rules must be uniform.

The primers are...nice...but only address the issue obliquely.

The primers read:

The purpose of the Royal Council is not to decorate the towns or place trash cans at the banks. The King is not an interior decorator, nor is he a gardener, nor a trash collector. The King does not summon monsters to attack his towns.

Governors may make *ONE* large-scale request per term, which will be considered by the King and his advisers.

ALL requests must have a role-play function or purpose. If you are requesting flowers around your bank because they look pretty, expect to be told no. If you are requesting a limited time change that fosters and supports role-play and your events as governor or adds to town interaction plots… we can talk about it.

Email a short summary of your plotline and upcoming event to the Great Lakes EMs. Leave the materials and/or deeds for your request in the EM mailbox (these will not be returned). Plan your event so it can go forward even if your request is not granted.

A great example is Atlantic’s Trade War from the first term. The plotline involved several of the cities and governors. Trinsic requested a small distillery for the duration of the plotline, which was granted. Atlantic’s Trinsic governor posted about the experience.

So deco, the most highest requested thing, is a non-starter. This has stymied a lot of governors since many players (constituents) have asked for it. The "King" may not be a gardener, but shouldn't he be able to hire someone? If the deco is provided by the players and is in good taste, why deny it? Lag could be a consideration, however, consider how many shards have permanent deco at Luna bank?

Having to have a "plotline" for every request is asking a bit much of most people. While many governors will be happy to attempt this, others won't. Not everyone has the same skillset, access resources (people, ideas), or RP ability.

One easy idea is to give the governors 50 "permanent" lockdowns in the city during their term and say 25 event-related lockdowns that have a timer of 24 hours. When the governor's term is up their lockdowns bounce into their pack or their bank, event lock downs bounce when the timer is up. Again, since there are only nine governors, policing potential abuse would be quite easy. Should a governor abuses the power, they are dismissed.


- Trade Deals: The governor-only gold sink. ~25 mil per term, or 104 mil per year. Financing the deals may be easy on Atlantic, but everywhere else it seems to be somewhat of a burden.

The Trade Deals are neat and all, but definitely not worth 2m a week since they are of no more immediate benefit than a fish pie. If there is a deal active people are happy to utilize it, but less thrilled when you ask them to chip in to support it. There needs to be a charge associated with utilizing the deal to help fund it. 40K a day would mean 50 people would need to utilize the deal once per week to fund it, however, this may be seen as a bit pricey. Drop the Trade Deal price to 1m a week, or allow the current 2M purchase to last a month...or indefinitely like the text on the stones say.

Since a trade deal is the ONLY visible means most players (non-RPers) have of seeing a governor's actions, this seems to the yardstick by which they are measured. If there isn't an active trade deal 24/7 to use it won't matter how many events a governor runs (if a player isn't online to participate, or doesn't hear about the event, it counts for nothing to them).

The Trade Deals alone could have kept this system afloat...


- Voting: From bad to worse.

While the way we could vote in the beginning was fine, some people found a way to get upset about it. While vote buying/trading DID happen the new vote system has only lessened the "problem" by lessening the whole system.

If this system is to be RP-based as the EMs have said (which must have been approved by Mesanna), then taking away a player's ability to RP when voting is dumbfounding. One account could vote once in seven of the nine cities, assuming they were loyal. Now, we can vote ONCE per shard. This hasn't eliminated vote trading/buying, just made it more selective. In the process, its taken away a good chunk of RP.

Most players aren't avid RPers, since this system is 100% RP now why would they even want to run? RP communities tend to be rather small, so they have less voting power overall. I hope the EMs don't go mental from an increase of disinterested-in-RP-only-in-it-for-the-title governors.

 

[TandaBSK]

Hello,
Governor of Minoc Great Lakes

Pros:
1. I love the role play idea of a player based Government interacting with the Shard and the Event Moderatorss. (Pat on the back for Malachi and Elizabella for all the guff they've put up with and effort they put in) We have maintained a role play High Council (player government) on shard for more than 10 years, and while political role play isn't everyone's cup of tea and it has had it's ups and downs, as I'm sure many shards have, it had a hayday that was great fun.

2. It gives one more monthly event to attempt to get people to interact and gather.

Cons:
1. Implementation of event ideas by players is difficult at best. Getting the word out is hard, face it only a finite portion of folks read any forums or boards related to the game. Only a portion use our Global Chat ability (in part because it is so prone to vile, unfriendly, profanity ridden attack based conversations), Bulletin boards help, they require effort opening and reading.

2. Interest in a role play oriented anything in Ultima online has dwindle greatly, for many this is little more than a bit more interactive first person shooter. It's all about hunting either monsters or new spawns hence the request all the time for raids on the cities. About the only RP many want is to be either the Good Guy and help beat back the evil invaders or the Bad Guy and help them kill off the defenders. One can witness this at any EM event that contains more than a few minutes of dialogue about the back story.

3.The Trade deals cost is a struggle, I am a Merchant/witch/politician in game and NOT a wealthy merchant I try to be pretty fair to down right cheap so if it were not for my partner in game funding the trade deals would really suck. I have set up vendors at my castle to try to sell to supply funds to keep them going. We've held a fundraiser hunt, trying to incorporate both aspects of this system.

4. The terms are very short, you have just 3 meetings with the King and getting things organized and staffed for any sort of event beyond and impromptu takes time. I have worked online in game auction for years (until my health has been giving me fits) what makes this event work as well as it does is it has A.) a set night and time EVERY week
B.) A gater in Luna spamming and popping gates for the public as a service and a reminder we're there (when we're short staffed and no gater numbers who attend dwindle) C.) We give away gold and or prizes for either trivia or random whatever we see fit to do and the prospect of a good deal (so there is something in it for them) D.) Large events where we give out more than 100m take month/s to plan, shop for, stage, decorate for and announce over and over again. (if your looking to server 50 to 100 players or more) The economy in game has skewed prizes.... to motivate people to come there has to be the promise of a better payout/off than they can get hunting for that time in game OR a loyalty, friendship or relationship that has been nurtured over time.

5. The voting changes still do not solve the issues at hand. It still allows for cross shard voting even if to a lesser degree. I understand the concept of 7 characters per account, multiple accounts per player being an issue too, but it makes little sense from a each character is "it's own person" role play vantage. im

Solutions:
1. I think a permanent Global Chat function/room might help but silence is deadly. The Town Criers would be a great help or other means of a shard wide system announcement limited perhaps in number of words and number of times per month any one (1) governor can utilize it.

2. You can't please everyone, strive for balance between role play (story telling) and action or hunting

3. If not a fee for service to utilize the trade deal perhaps a dedicated vendor either NPC or Player run IN each city to fund the deal. Or perhaps modified in Magincia??

4. Lengthen terms, Aid Governor's with event related temporary lock downs/items, perhaps the One major request a month could be a free for the whole shard, NON rare commemorative item (like the EM sashes) Engraved or embroidered with "Winner of" or "Participant in" We surely don't need any more multi million gold drops in the economy that are limited to a select few.

5. Voting Character age (account age) must be more than 30 (60)?days old to vote, maintain the loyalty requirement, Perhaps characters must register in some fashion to vote 30 days prior to the election? I'm just randomly searching for ideas. I'm not sure there is any grand solution that will please everyone.

 

[Queen Arya]

Wow, alot to absorb!

What I like about this system: almost everything- I'm not one who looks a gift horse in the mouth. I thank Mesanna, the Dev's, The GM's and especially the EM"s for considering any fix, new content, Listening to our constructive complaints, Their time and responses.
Can we make this better? Of course. It was my understanding it would be trail an error. I do believe they are listening.

I do not believe this governorship system is strictly role play, and here is why: Your EM's are taking the new game content and bringing it one step further by interacting with players through this governor system and aiding the game wide story arc. Believe it or not, there are newer players and returning players who need all of our support. Even a vet player can learn something from this. If your shard is waning, dont quit this system, hurry up and go a step further, by emailing Mesanna and/or your EM and have solutions along with constructive complaints. (squeaky brakes get oiled)

3 months is not long enough, but if you have a governor that isnt showing support, let the EM replace them.
Voting- its not much different than IRL. Campaign, Campaign, Campaign!
Voting stone: Give out an item with a buff or mod. Make the citizenry donate to the stone weekly to keep the coffers up and item wearable (alot like the faction gear) Boots, quiver, earrings, apron, cloak, or lantern (spell channeling) something totally whacky colored but let the player pick the mods and the governor pick the colors.
Put in a circle at every town bank that only citizens are able to get an additional small buff (IE: spell weaving circle)
If you break down the 3 months with nine towns/Governors, even with two EM's, someones not going to get a fair shake with their event ideas. ( make it quarterly)
Make a town hub during elections with a gating system that also goes active for that week only. Actually, make use of the Luna fairgrounds and have a campaign night.
Promote the use of these forums!! Many of our story arcs on Atlantic are made much more appealing due to the interactions on our shards forums. (I can read these forums from my desk at work, giving me the entire day with something to really look forward to)

Add something competitive - If the towns are competing your more likely to gain a larger populace.
The Golden Title under your toons name, now theres something each citizen could earn. They would have to do something off the charts to earn it

I cant believe how many players that are still unaware of this governorship system (I also cant believe how many people still dont know where Toad Town is) This brings me to that global chat system. Why not make a chat system that goes live during the voting process. Call it general campaign chat. Anyone who is loyal to any town can hear this along with their normal chat channel. That way we only drive them batty for the two week period.

I dont see anything wrong with wanting to fix up your town. I would love to see an open air tavern area in every town with something to offer differently each month.

Just some food for thought. I appreciate every post I read here.

Thank you Nails for another great idea!

 

[Merus]

As a governor of a slow shard here are a few of my thoughts.

First off, as governor what have I done?
1. I have made a few requests for my city... I got one, the governors office.
2. I hosted a few events... a few white net tosses and a harrower. The white net toss events seemed to draw a decent number of folks for my shard, but neither of these events were something that would have required being governor to do. For the most part these events were funded by me personally or by me and a few guild mates.
3. I funded the trade deal (+5SDI) a few times hoping to encourage some citizenship, but with no real way to announce it or track it there was no real way for me to know if it was worth anything to anyone. I certainly didn't hear anyone ask for it once I stopped funding it. The sole exception to this has been some of the Xsharders who attend EM events on my shard funding it on occasion. I have nothing against them requesting it, but it is kinda sad that people from other shards are funding the trade deals on a sporadic basis because there isn't enough interest on the shard itself.

My overall assessment is that as Governor that only real power I have to do anything as Governor is control the selection of the trade deal and pass out titles to no one (on my shard at least).

Suggestions:

Trade deals need a serious overhaul. My personal preference for the trade deals would be to make them selected by the governor and have a tiered usage fee to activate it based on city loyalty. Venerated = 5k to activate ... respected = 50k to activate. This system would make the governors choice relevant to the election while leaving the funding to those who are utilizing it and recognizing those who are more active for their town.

Citizen statistics. Governors should be able to track statistics for their towns.... how many citizens of each loyalty level, how many votes cast, how many trade deal usages, etc. I don't need to see characters names, just counts. This should be viewable from the city stone.

Communication. I would love for the governors to be able to set a system log in message for citizens of the town. Add an option for the citizen to enable or disable the system message. This should be set, enabled and disabled from the city stone.

Certainly I would love to see the governors have more power within their cities to decorate within reason and subject to review, warning and account suspension for those who abuse the ability.

 

[Tanieran]

I play Alista Laleyan, Governor of Jhelom (And running for re-election!) on Great Lakes.

Everyone has pretty much said what I feel already and given some very good ideas. Here's a few notes from me--

Pros-- I love the RP, and the potential the RP can be taken to. I love the fact that we get to sit down with our EM-run King Blackthorn once a month, and that he occasionally makes surprise appearances at Governor Events.

I actually found a Citizen of Jhelom!

I liked the idea of the Governor Offices, and submitted the materials for one for Jhelom on Great Lakes. It was put up, and fits in nicely with the theme of Jhelom.

Cons -- I am disappointed that the system was not what Messana first presented. I have seen a similar system that was purely out of character work very well on Star Wars Galaxies. It was called "The Galactic Senate" and each Senator was voted for by the players.

While the devs have given us a few tools for communication with the town citizens, and those tools are very appreciated (the Ballot Box and the Bulletin board), those tools are being under-utilized by the players. I'm sad to say, that we're still having issues communicating with the town citizens.

It's really hard to find citizens of Jhelom on Great Lakes.

It would be really neat to be able to have a steward in the Governor Offices that would be connected to the Town Stones, and work similar to the stewards and barkeeps we can place in our houses. As in, we could type in a message, and the Steward would say it when players walked in. I really like Dot's idea of being able to have something like a Town Crier to announce events for the governors as well.

Having to dish out 2 million a week for the trade agreement when players don't want to contribute but do want to use the buff is very discouraging, expensive and time consuming. I very much like the idea of charging for the use of the buff with pricing connected to Town Loyalty.

 

[MalagAste]

My character Willa of the Yew-wood has been the Mayor of Yew on GL's for years so when they announced the Governor system I was super excited. But like many others I guess I'm disillusioned. Hearing what was first proposed by Mesanna and seeing the reality of it they seem pretty far apart, IMO.

Pros- Like everyone I see so much potential! The RP aspect is GREAT but then I'm an RPer. RP is what I live for.

Love the Ballot Boxes, used mine even. Love the bulletin boards as well, however most folk don't use it. I gave out ONE title early on and since then have yet to have anyone request another. Nice concept though.

Like the Office though it lacks any real functionality.

Cons- I'm so disillusioned it's hard to know where to begin.

First off it's impossible to really get any word out to people about much of anything. People don't read Stratics hardly even they surely aren't going to read anything I post. They are interested in using the Buff and nothing else it seems.

RP wise I had high hopes that this would really encourage folk to become more involved in the Cities and such but since they honestly can't really change anything or do anything or improve the city in any way shape or form... I don't see it really drawing anyone into the community .... nor do I see it adding any bonus to any city and from what I've seen most of them are just as empty as ever.

I've always LOVED my City... Yew has always had a special place in my heart even though it's very spread out and some folk tend to get lost in it. I'm sure there are folk with a fond memory or two of every City... but one thing that always gets me is NO ONE can "live" in Jhelom... you can't even live "near" Jhelom (sure you can live on that tiny isle in a tiny house somewhere by that small farm but really no one does), or Nu'Jelm for that matter. People CAN live on Moonglow Isle. People can live in and around Yew, Britain, Cove, Vesper, Minoc and such... Hard to love a city you do nothing in.

I fail to see just what the system is supposed to be about. You know I was lost already when I had high hopes for the Banner System and actually being "recognized" as having a Player Run town. But sadly little came of that either so I suppose I should have known this would be a similar situation. I still keep hoping more will be done for Player Run towns. Maybe there just aren't enough around anymore.

And finally I like many others am going broke and getting tired of paying out the nose for a Trade Agreement that quite honestly does NOTHING for me. It's a nice concept and all but it's honestly overly expensive and gives little in return especially if you have to remember everyday to use it and have to renew the thing every week. There are 2 whole people in Yew who have said anything about what Trade Agreement should be used... and sadly they both want a different one. (I go mostly with the one that's paying the thing).

 

[DJAd]

CONS: On Atlantic all the meetings seemed to be at 8pm EST. This is a bit annoying for people living in a different timezone. Sure I could play a more local shard but I like the busy population on Atlantic and have already moved all my characters there. I don't find the election system a big enough draw to move back.

Maybe there were meetings at other times, please correct me if I'm wrong. I stopped following it after the first couple as I just could not make them.

 

[Lord Atlantic]

CONS: On Atlantic all the meetings seemed to be at 8pm EST. This is a bit annoying for people living in a different timezone. Sure I could play a more local shard but I like the busy population on Atlantic and have already moved all my characters there. I don't find the election system a big enough draw to move back.

Maybe there were meetings at other times, please correct me if I'm wrong. I stopped following it after the first couple as I just could not make them.

i believe you are correct, all meetings ive heard of were 8-9pm EST

 

[Faeryl]

CONS: On Atlantic all the meetings seemed to be at 8pm EST. This is a bit annoying for people living in a different timezone. Sure I could play a more local shard but I like the busy population on Atlantic and have already moved all my characters there. I don't find the election system a big enough draw to move back.

Maybe there were meetings at other times, please correct me if I'm wrong. I stopped following it after the first couple as I just could not make them.

I wouldn't particularily call the set time of the meetings on one specific shard a con against the system itself. As you said, people from ALL timezones play on Atlantic... And it's impossible to appease them all. The 8pm time seems to work for many though, as is evidenced by the fairly consistent turnouts.

I know I've been procrastinating on the most recent one, but for those who can't make the meetings, I do try to get a report up ASAP.

 

[Kyronix]

There's a lot of great feedback in this thread, and as we move forward will take it into consideration. Thanks for your contributions!

 

[MedeaDF]

Dear all,

as a soon-not-to-be-elected-again Gouvernor (because I didn't participate this time because my motivation for the "job" is somehow a little bit low right now) of our pretty little shard Drachenfels, I have some things (read: my personal opinion) to spit out, and I would like to post them here before its too late, thehe.

PROS

• Directly be in contact with the crown/the king/the boss of the shard, meaning to be in direct contact with the EM on the shard, and somehow a more direct route to the Developer team
• Getting contacts to the shard's "real" RP population (on our shard its a small, but dedicated population with a lot of "story" going on right now)
• Getting a special title from the titles menue :-D
• Ermm... *thinks*

CONS

• The amount of gold for the trade deal (2m/week) is still too high for us smaller shards! I know of alot of Gouvernors who spend their own money on the city trade deals of their towns instead of using their own money for themselves! Maybe it seems ridiculous for the bigger shards out there, but I'm really not interested in spending 24m (during my governing) into a town/population which is nearly inactive... only to have the trade deal up for two or four people? (While my two governing periods I only knew of two active people in my town...)
• An idea from one of our active Gouvernors on Drachenfels (not mine): It would be nice for the "Collection" towns (meaning: Britain Library, Moonglow Zoo, Vesper Museum) to donate some gold while fighting/working to the town's treasure chest - this was a request repeatedly told to the King on our shard, nothing has happend since mentioning it.
  Maybe you could bring in some options for the other towns too, otherwise it would be unfair to the none-"Collection" towns (meaning: could you use the "old" Faction system for that? Slaying Monster X makes town Z get Y amount of gold? Or similar like that?)
  Bringing gold/items to the bank/Herold is an additional effort, and not everone is really keen to do this that way.
• Castle Blackthorn is a really impressive and nice place for a meeting with the King, but please - can you put some doors on the ground floor so visitors can reach the meeting room more easily? It's really a pain to get there by foot, running around through stairs and floors (from ground to first back to the ground floor through at least three stairs!) and whatnot!
• Sometimes I really think the King is not really motivated to interact with all his Gouvernors on those meetings... sometimes it seems to me that he gives no real feedback on new ideas or even shows interest in newly presented ideas (but on the other hand, maybe that's just only me!)

PERSONAL NOTES

• It is obvious that a lot of Gouverneurs would like to have their towns "beautified". Yes, simple flowers, a bench, a rune/runebook to a special location, a new possibility to stable pets etc. Please, consider a person, an (Ex?-)EM, a Volunteer, to decorate all the shards as possible, because I think it would be a motivation for all the shards (and especially roleplaying people) to have their own place, their own special thing or story/history to have on their homeshard. Please!!
• Why is there a chaos banner in each of the Gouvernors office? Because of Lord Blackthorns regency? And his past... projectstuffthingies? Ermm... alrighty then! *slightly confused look*
• My personal conclusion: I like the Gouvernor's thing a lot, but I think there is a lot of work needed to be done, until the RP community, the EMs and even the Developers team can honestly say the program is a "successful" one.
• Don't rush, don't hurry while working on it, listen to the people, and probably this "program" will get the attention it really deserves!

Thanks for listening anyway, checking out now...

~ Medea aka
~ Thenon Tomeshk, Gouvernor of
~ the Town of Vesper, Drachenfels

 

[Dot_Warner]

Changes need to be made as to how votes are displayed:

1 - The guild name needs to display the abbreviation, since most people recognize other guilds by that first.

2 - It would be nice if votes were displayed as actual numbers, not just percentages. If percentages remain, please display to the second decimal place as current percentages rarely total 100%. (Display issues such as these get people squirmy about the system not being accurate.)

Example of "missing" votes:

.7 is missing if you add the percentages.

It would be nice if it looked like this:

 

[Dot_Warner]

Another thing that the system need is a way for governors to appoint a lieutenant governor. The only powers that they would have that may sit in the governor's chairs and choose a trade deal if there isn't one already selected. Give them the title of 'Lt. Governor of City.'

This would make it easier if "life" happens and a gov can't make it to a council meeting, at least the EMs wouldn't have to worry about a hole to fill or a delayed plot point.

 

[Nails Warstein]

Ideas I have discussed with other governors that would be helpful to promoting participation is an EM Gate from Luna to inside Castle Blackthorn just outside the council chambers only during governor meetings. Also we would advocate placing a teleporter in the castle orchard, library, or some place the developers deem satisfactory that connects to the town teleporter system.

In addition if the petitioner areas could be squelched while the governors and king discuss matters effect the realm, and unsquelched when the King gives the floor to listen to the city citizens' concerns.

 

[Dot_Warner]

A voting restriction that is needed:

Require that an account be 30 days old to be able to vote, just like for receiving gifts.

 

[SunWolf]

3 Months for a term isn't really that bad at all. It is a nice time frame for a term, but I surely won't go over 4 months, due to it will lose interest. Right now every 3 months, keeps things fresh, I think and keeps interest there. When you are governor, the time flies it seems, but you only get 3 meetings. The first one is an intderduction to the new governor's and getting comfortable, so you have the second and third to speak your thoughts, if they are not cut short or interupted with anything. Atlantics Yew's Mayor elections used to be 6 months and it was a long 6 months and we found there was problems off and on so we ended up cutting the terms to 4 months which seemed to work fine, when it was active.

The whole point behind a governor system, as with the guild I entered, was to build a community in the game. It doesn't always has to be events, but orginal ideas and to make experiances just fun. But many people's strong point is doing events, and I can agree about communication on getting the word out and protecting the event from griefers. Learned over the years what type of events you can have and can't have without help, while new governor's and such are learning the hard way. A town shouldn't be used or allowed to be used for a guild advertisment either, that defeats the purpose.

I do agree the 2 million gold is hard for some people to do, which includes me. But there is many things or reasons to do events or contests or raffles in the towns to bring gold in. The system is there just have to do what you have and work with it. I am going to try to do a 50/50 raffle this week, 50% will go on the town stone, 50% will goto the winner. As a governor, I am not going pour my own gold into the town, when you already donate so much time. But will think of whatever events to do for the town that will bring in gold from people who might have never meet before.

 

[Matthias O'Hare]

Sorry that I am just replying to this thread. I had the opportunity to be the governor of Vesper on Great Lakes during the 2nd term. The system to me is on the path to success. It's not for sure of course, but the potential is there. If they don't incorporate some of the ideas proposed by players, I think we are going to see a lot more PKC (Pending King's Choice) pop up as time goes on. Before getting into my pros and cons, I will say I did resign at the end of the 2nd term in protest against the vote changes that were announced. I did not even attempt to run this term. The reason was the voting changes nerfed my ability to play my multiple characters between Vesper and Britain. I had to choose between helping my friend be elected in the most important city in Britannia, or me coveting my position in mostly irrelevant Vesper and watch Britain be lost. I shouldn't have had to make this choice, but I was forced to. Anyway, moving on!

PROS:

Community - I can't tell you how long it has been since I've met this many people and become newly acquainted with them. Between the first election, the subsequent cry from governors for invasions, and then fighting in defense of those cities, I've made several new friends. The roleplaying community on Great Lakes has never been stronger in the past six years or better meshed to work with (not look down on) the non rp guilds on the shard. I've always thought the possibility for a small but significant revival in the shard community could happen, but it would take an outside force pushing it. People in our rp community used to call me crazy for wanting to add positions to our rp equivalent of a High Council, but the possibility for outreach to grow our community was there and the governor system has definitely provided that.

Ballot Boxes - These were a good idea and unfortunately are underused by the player base. However, I still got usually 3 to 5 votes on the questions from other citizens of Vesper which at least told me there was some other people out there that did care.


PUSH:

Blackthorn - I love being able to interact with Blackthorn, and in truth it is a privilege to be able to sit up there and interact with the King. I'm sure many of us have had our nerdout moment the first time we got to address Blackthorn. It also helps that the EM on Great Lakes does a good job of getting into the role. He does, on the rare occasion, show up at the events on the shard which helpfully draws people. However, he also sort of looks like the diddling King with the response time he gives (if he even gives one) on even the smallest of the city requests. Having worked on the Snowball Fight with a couple of the current governors, I am pretty sure the late and confusing response the King gave to the event confused a lot of people as to when the event was even happening or as to what the event was supposed to be.

Solution: Maybe some more leeway should be given to the more senior EMs. I am pretty sure the delays in response time is caused by the fact that even the ridiculously small and obviously approvable ones have to all go through Mesanna and she is being inundated with requests.


Message Boards - Another highly underutilized tool by the player base. It's great that you can leave messages for the governor or that he or others can respond to them in their due time. It is how I met NightStriker and learned what best worked for him and I believe his guildmates who use the trade deal. However, it is horrible at getting the attention of the player base for events the governor or other citizens may be throwing in the city. I witnessed during this 3rd election cycle when Dot Warner was campaigning that people were jeering her for never holding events, yet she has held the most of any governor on the shard. When informed of these events, they were angry that they didn't know about them and complained even more.

Solution: I agree with Dot on this one. You need to give the ability to the governor to somehow post a short (is almost like a tweet!) message that the city heralds could do their usual spam of for a day or two prior. If someone abuses it, it is not that hard to find them as the list is very short. If it means needing to agree to some sort of legal wording when you accept the status of governor, then so be it. The only way you are going to truly be able to inform the player base of events is if you bash them in the face with it in game as most don't read Stratics, UO Forums, or UORPC.


Trade Deals - They are a nice bonus for each city and it is easy to use. The small buff it gives is great as every little bit is helpful. However, they've also become a one person gold sink for the governor. I think the devs thought more players would be willing to donate for the trade deal when they came up with the idea rather than expect just the governor to pay for it. It has turned into a heavy burden for governors on the smaller shards and even the smaller cities on the larger shards.

Solution: A player should have to pay to use the buff. Maybe a 20k charge for the day or 100k charge for the week. These funds should be deposited directly into the treasury for the governor to use in paying for the trade deal. I'd also expand the trade deals in two ways. The first, I'd make it where you could purchase two trade deals for players to chose from for a buff and each would last a month. The second, I'd create a few different trade deals that focus on the non fighting classes such as: a fishing bonus trade deal, a crafter bonus trade deal, a resource gatherer bonus trade deal, a treasure map hunter bonus trade deal.

CONS:


Three Month Term - 3 Months is just too short of a time. The first meeting was mostly greetings and wishes of congratulations on victory, the second meeting was productive, the third was mostly a wrap of stuff from the 2nd and then a good luck towards the next election. Not much stability.

Solution: Make them four month terms? I'd rather stick with three months than move to anything more than four. A half year is too long and we all know that people burn out and disappear for weeks on time.


No Lt. Governor - The system doesn't have a way of allowing a governor to select a 2nd in command that could handle some functions if the governor can't. I travel a lot and several times was out of town when the trade deal lapsed and Vesper citizens had to wait 2 or 3 days. The EMs also, of course, schedule meetings that best fit their schedule. That doesn't always jive with the players' schedule. I had to miss the last meeting due to a birthday.

Solution: Allow a Governor to appoint a Lt. Governor. He wouldn't have any special powers, he'd just be able to sit in the city seat at Blackthorn's and the seat at the Governor's Office in the home city. You could allow him to renew the trade deal as well. I think these would be acceptable to the player base.


I look forward to seeing how the system turns out over the long term and have a few other ideas, but I'd like to flesh them out more.

 

[Pandora_CoD]

My feedback on the Governor system...

WHAT I LOVE
I love being able to introduce RP to the masses in a simple format that allows players of all kinds to participate. The direct contact and involvement with the Crown and its representatives is a very nice way for us to expand upon the RP that is at the core of this game. I have been an RP'er most of my UO gaming life and its just so nice to see them add a system that encourages more of that.

The creativity that I have seen from folks in regards to events or to general things that has sprouted from this system is GREAT! The one shard who's Governor was put on a "Wanted" list or the shard that has their Vesper Governor running a full on organized crime ring.... the one shard with Jhelom invading Minoc... some things have been amazing to see come out of this system and I love it!

The interaction with other Governors for me has been great! Most if not all have been awesome to RP with and work with! I really do love that.



WHAT I DO NOT LIKE OR WHAT WE DEFINITELY NEED

Since a trade deal is the ONLY visible means most players (non-RPers) have of seeing a governor's actions, this seems to the yardstick by which they are measured. If there isn't an active trade deal 24/7 to use it won't matter how many events a governor runs (if a player isn't online to participate, or doesn't hear about the event, it counts for nothing to them).

I am experiencing the same exact thing on my shard Catskills. RP'ers are by far the least wealthy at least the RP'ers that only RP and do little else. So it has been hard to keep this up all the time, so now I am being dragged through the mud about it. Forget anything else I've done. It just doesn't count! I asked folks to help donate to get the buff and nope... the expectation is that I am to pay for it myself or not run for Governor.

Solution: A player should have to pay to use the buff. Maybe a 20k charge for the day or 100k charge for the week. These funds should be deposited directly into the treasury for the governor to use in paying for the trade deal. I'd also expand the trade deals in two ways. The first, I'd make it where you could purchase two trade deals for players to chose from for a buff and each would last a month. The second, I'd create a few different trade deals that focus on the non fighting classes such as: a fishing bonus trade deal, a crafter bonus trade deal, a resource gatherer bonus trade deal, a treasure map hunter bonus trade deal.

That's the absolute solution to the problem. I love this idea...

Another thing that the system needs is a way for governors to appoint a lieutenant governor. The only powers that they would have that may sit in the governor's chairs and choose a trade deal if there isn't one already selected. Give them the title of 'Lt. Governor of City.'

Solution: Allow a Governor to appoint a Lt. Governor. He wouldn't have any special powers, he'd just be able to sit in the city seat at Blackthorn's and the seat at the Governor's Office in the home city. You could allow him to renew the trade deal as well. I think these would be acceptable to the player base.

I did that myself, I have a "State Secretary". Would be nice though for them to have limited powers as well. So I approve of this 100%.

City Heralds need to spam event announcements. If governors are expected/encouraged to hold events, we need a better method of announcing them in the hopes of reaching more people. Each of the nine heralds could be linked together to allow a governor to announce an event within the city system. So the Herald would bark something like: '[Britain] There will be a scavenger hunt at the Cat's Lair on 11/30 at 4pm.' Since there are only nine governors per shard it is unlikely that one would abuse this ability. If someone does, make it grounds for immediate dismissal.

This has been a HUGE complaint from me to Devs and TO ME by folks that ask me about it. The ability to FUND a City Herald announcement should be added. Much the same way we fun the Trade Deals, allow us to pay to add a message to the Heralds. OR just the ONE herald that is linked to this system that sits by the stone waiting for gold that hardly ever gets donated. (See my first complaint!)

Castle Blackthorn is a really impressive and nice place for a meeting with the King, but please - can you put some doors on the ground floor so visitors can reach the meeting room more easily?

Oh my god YESSS! And can you allow recall and/or gate spells? If there is a way to just allow recalls, sooooooo do that!!!!

Citizen statistics. Governors should be able to track statistics for their towns.... how many citizens of each loyalty level, how many votes cast, how many trade deal usages, etc. I don't need to see characters names, just counts. This should be viewable from the city stone.

Fantastic idea, make it so!

One easy idea is to give the governors 50 "permanent" lockdowns in the city during their term and say 25 event-related lockdowns that have a timer of 24 hours. When the governor's term is up their lockdowns bounce into their pack or their bank, event lock downs bounce when the timer is up. Again, since there are only nine governors, policing potential abuse would be quite easy. Should a governor abuses the power, they are dismissed.

That would be so amazing!!!!

And some of my own ideas....

a) Ballot Boxes need to allow for more than just a "YES or NO".... allow us to put multiple choices please! That way we can better gauge which trade deals to secure.
b) Governor Offices.... why o' why are we getting NEW buildings for this? Can't we use existing ones? There is soooooo many unused buildings in all the cities. Or at least allow the Governor elected to perhaps decorate a building they like, even though the formal office is the new building, for the duration of their term. Like with the 50 permanent lockdowns for the term idea!
c) Bulletin Boards should allow everyone to see them, not just citizens of that city. Maybe only citizens can post... but everyone should be able to read.
d) Allow the Governor to have a "TRADE MERCHANT" next to the city herald that allows them to sell items on it with the money going directly to the city treasury.
e) Allow monsters you kill that drop gold, to have a few coins go to your city. That would help fund the trade deals better.

As I think of more... I'll reply.

 

[Aedon Durreah]

I am just getting involved in the Governors aspect of the game, so right now my views are coming from one that is still learning some of the aspects.

What I like about it.
As others have stated, the potential for RP is astounding. There are so many things a governor of a town can do to spur interest in not only the current RP community, but also to those who merely stick their toes in the RP waters, or simply RP when they feel like it.

I can see that the buffs, though possibly of no interest to a role player, will be important and valuable. But I wish that the Governors first of all coordinated their buffs so there was no over lap and also took care to see that the sort of buff suited the history and lore of the area.

I thoroughly enjoyed the meeting in Blackthorn castle with the king. I thought it was well played out, and for the most part held my interest.

I like anything that gives attention and care to the many cities of Sosaria. And I think having an office built for a sitting governor is a great idea.

Cons

The system as it is too easily allows for the members of a large guild to spread out, and place governors over many of the towns. This is a bit unfair to others who may wish to try their hand at holding office for a while. I would like to see some sort of over sight of such things to be sure that we all have equal chance to enjoy this part of the game.

Yes, Governors should serve a wee bit longer. At least 6 months to 1 year. This will give more time for the sitting governor to plan and hold events. And also to show that they are truly up to the task.

I think there should be real elections and debates. Not just I put my name on the stone so all my friends can come out and elect me.

Other than Trinsic on Catskills (Which Lord Brittish put in the hands of (PGoH) I think there needs to be term limits. Say you can hold the office for three terms only. Although Cats seems to have some fine governors, and one that at least has not blown up Moonglow, no one person should be able to hold a monopoly on the system.

Conclusion;
This is a wonderful addition to the game, and played out right can open the way for many evenings of fascinating play. We must just take care to see that it remains open and inviting to all, and continue to build on what we have.

 

[Kyronix]

One item I would like to talk about is a change with how we handle what Governor's can request from the Crown, and a little more information on what is you should expect from the Crown.

We've gotten a number of requests through our dedicated EMs regarding requests for changes to base systems - whether it is the Governor system or another game system. These requests are outside of the scope of the Governor/King interaction and should be sent in through normal feedback channels, you can post on these forums, PM us here, or email [email protected].

With regard to removing existing parts of the world - for example, trees. Anything that alters the existing landscape is likely something we aren't going to do. Deletions from the map like this require world building and and a subsequent publish.

Large scale requests that will ultimately wind up on every shard (like the addition of a dock) are something that we will world build in, and then publish out. When a majority of shards have asked for a similar request and the players of those shards have had a chance to play through whatever requirements the Crown sets, we will world build it out. Due to the fact that this is dependent on our publish schedule, expect these requests to take some time to fulfill.

Now, aside from the items above what can a Governor do? For one thing - requests should be measured against two criteria. Firstly, does your request interface with the events that have transpired on the shard with your EM? Is there some sort of zombie invasion that has been plaguing your City and you wish to provide resources for a healing tent? Secondly, the request should do something to faciliate play and interaction amongst your citie's citizens as well as the realm at large. Is the city of Trinsic hosting a market day to facilitate trade amongst Britannia's cities?

Our intention is to begin building a library of builds that cities across all shards can utilize, and then ultimately we can use these builds in a future automated system by which the Governor can have these built a requisite number of resources.

For example, using the Trinsic Market scenario posted above:

In association with the Crown (aka the EMs) the Governor of Trinsic wishes to host a market day at the market square near the Sons of the Sea. The King sets out a requirement for the resources needed to procure some stalls and a crafting area. The request will then get dispatched and we will build a market in Trinsic that will get added to the library of available requests that other Governors of Trinsic, across all shards, can request from.

There are several benefits from handling requests like this moving forward including:
1. It allows the creativity of Governors to decide what gets built in the City while ensuring that requests add to the overall play experience.
2. Builds can get added to a centralized library that we can showcase on UO.com as well as add to a future automated system.
3. Builds are uniform amongst the Cities they are selected for and take into account the stylistic and aesthetic requirements of their location.
4. Builds can be placed on any shard, since we know they already fit!

If anyone has questions - feel free to ask. I'll be afk (aka on vacation ) for the next week so if I don't reply please don't think I'm ignoring anyone. Enjoy the rest of the weekend all!

 

[Speranza]

I'd like some clarification please. What is the difference between these two things:

Large scale requests that will ultimately wind up on every shard (like the addition of a dock) are something that we will world build in, and then publish out. When a majority of shards have asked for a similar request and the players of those shards have had a chance to play through whatever requirements the Crown sets, we will world build it out. Due to the fact that this is dependent on our publish schedule, expect these requests to take some time to fulfill.

Our intention is to begin building a library of builds that cities across all shards can utilize, and then ultimately we can use these builds in a future automated system by which the Governor can have these built a requisite number of resources.

Why can't the large scale things also be in the library of things to "turn on"? I've already set part of the coast of Minoc, Chesapeake on fire (if you want to see it go west of the Bank to The Forgery, looks cool!) as part of my quest to get my citizens some docks in Lost Hope Bay. Without factoring in developer resources (because unless I win the lottery and pay you to do it I know it will be on your time frame) why do I have to wait for another shard who may not even have a Minoc Governor to get involved?

 

[Kyronix]

I'd like some clarification please. What is the difference between these two things:



Why can't the large scale things also be in the library of things to "turn on"? I've already set part of the coast of Minoc, Chesapeake on fire (if you want to see it go west of the Bank to The Forgery, looks cool!) as part of my quest to get my citizens some docks in Lost Hope Bay. Without factoring in developer resources (because unless I win the lottery and pay you to do it I know it will be on your time frame) why do I have to wait for another shard who may not even have a Minoc Governor to get involved?

It's a matter of doing world building vs dynamic objects. World building is the static map layer and includes things like terrain, trees, foliage, and most buildings etc. World building keeps lag pretty low because it is built into the client. Dynamic objects on the other hand, are objects that exist on the server and when there are a lot of them that's why you can experience lag (like Luna). World building takes a lot more effort than adding dynamic objects, hence they differ with the size and scope of whatever it is we are building.

 

[Riyana]

When a majority of shards have asked for a similar request and the players of those shards have had a chance to play through whatever requirements the Crown sets, we will world build it out. Due to the fact that this is dependent on our publish schedule, expect these requests to take some time to fulfill.

I have to say I have mixed feelings about this. I understand the reasoning, but at the same time as Speranza points out, there are plenty of shards with no governors in some cities. There are shards where no one cares about the system at all just about. Different shard populations may have very different takes on what direction their cities should take.

I'm working with Speranza on the Minoc docks on Chesapeake, addressing in a RP, player-event way the problem that our king described. Now yes, it will be fun and add content to our shard regardless of whether Minoc ever gets a dock, but are we pretty much doomed to failure unless we coordinate with other shards? That seems silly. The governor system appears to be a community-based RP system PER SHARD, not across shards. Just as silly would be a bunch of shards that never did a single thing getting a dock because a few worked hard for it.

I mean, I get it, but ugh. That's awkward and frustrating.

In association with the Crown (aka the EMs) the Governor of Trinsic wishes to host a market day at the market square near the Sons of the Sea. The King sets out a requirement for the resources needed to procure some stalls and a crafting area. The request will then get dispatched and we will build a market in Trinsic that will get added to the library of available requests that other Governors of Trinsic, across all shards, can request from.

It's interesting that you use that as an example, because the governor of Trinsic on Chesapeake asked for that very thing. She requested that the Trammel side have the same booths that the Felucca side does. It was granted... but all the tables have timers and will expire in a few weeks. Should we expect builds to be temporary/timered like this?


Don't get me wrong; I'm enjoying the governor system a lot. I think it has a ton of potential and I hope to see more attention given to it.

One of the things I think would make the biggest impact on the governor system, though, is a better means of communicating with players about what is going on in the cities. The message boards are only readable by citizens of that city, but on most shards you can't limit your events to citizens of one city or only two or three people will show up!

Lots of great ideas in this thread!

 

[Ludes]

There needs to be a "primer" on the whole system somewhere..

When I first started taking an interest in the whole thing it was a little difficult to get familiar with it all..
I found myself into the notes all the way back to Publish 77 getting an understanding of loyalty..

Nowhere is there a tutorial that shows exactly where and how to vote.. I stumbled upon the stone at the bank in Trinsic.. Governers were a mystery till I went back to the publish notes again I think that was 81..I had to ask around in Gen Chat to find our Trade Minister.
I think some people that may not have paid attention to the system from the start may have trouble catching up.

 

[Petra Fyde]

@Ludes Does this help? http://uo2.stratics.com/essays-and-guides/in-game-systems/britannia-loyalty-councils

 

[Dot_Warner]

@Kyronix Requests are a big issue with the governor system and each shard seems to be handling them in markedly different ways, that's a bad thing. Whatever rules or expectations exist need to be uniform across all shards; the EMs on Shard A shouldn't be able to do things that the EMs on Shard B say no to. Currently, that's how the system is. Having everything be timered is also a bad thing.

A library of potential improvements sounds great, but I fear we'll lose individuality amongst the shards if everything else a governor asks for is either denied or stamped with an expiration date. I foresee an automated system becoming a crutch for the less active, or less involved, EMs.

Right now though, the biggest issue has to be the trade deals. Citizens have zero incentive to chip in for these, leaving the governors to foot the 24-26 mil price per term. Not everyone has seen the acquisition of massive amounts digital gold as a worthwhile goal in UO. This needs to be fixed asap.
Ways to help:

• Banners purchased from the city guard see the gold go into the city's coffers
• Trade Ministers send a certain amount of gold into the coffers based on what they get
• Trade Deals are halved in price to 1 mil, or lower
• Utilization of trade deals costs the citizen 10-50K in gold per use.

It also might be a good idea to double the buff strength from trade deals so they aren't just a longer lasting fish pie buff. More people will see them as worthwhile then.

 

[Ludes]

@Ludes Does this help? http://uo2.stratics.com/essays-and-guides/in-game-systems/britannia-loyalty-councils

Petra, that page does give a lot of good info.. I had already looked up everything for myself but it's a good page to steer beginners to the elections to.

 

[Matthias O'Hare]

I can't really express in words how disappointed I am that reforming the way the trade deal is paid for is not the top priority when it comes to the governor system. This is the single biggest issue. The trade deal is the only instance where the vast majority of the player base interacts with the city system. It is bankrupting players that are elected to governor. Some of the shards have it better because of the people that play there being more involved, but even on those shards, there is a constant gripe. To use the trade deal should require some sort of payment or donation. Several solutions have been offered in this thread that would be good fixes.

 

[Aurelius]

We keep making all sort of suggestions for the town funds and trade deal issues, a few of the Europa governors suggested improvaments here - http://stratics.com/community/threads/tweak-requests-suggestions.298553/page-3#post-2350292 - but a lot of people have made excellent suggestions, outlined systems and put forward changes through the past few months.... not sure if anything at all is going on at the Dev end of the system, though

 

[Pandora_CoD]

I can't really express in words how disappointed I am that reforming the way the trade deal is paid for is not the top priority when it comes to the governor system. This is the single biggest issue. The trade deal is the only instance where the vast majority of the player base interacts with the city system. It is bankrupting players that are elected to governor. Some of the shards have it better because of the people that play there being more involved, but even on those shards, there is a constant gripe. To use the trade deal should require some sort of payment or donation. Several solutions have been offered in this thread that would be good fixes.

Ditto!

The first thing that needs to be addressed is the trade deal issue. Just adding a pay-per-use, which isn't that hard to do, would alleviate a lot of shoulders.

 

[Bianca_CoD]

Could this request for a "Pay Per Use" on buffs be falling on deaf ears? I do not think that's a huge change to make and it would help SOOOOO many!

Mesanna, please weigh in here.

~ Sue.

 

[Kyronix]

Could this request for a "Pay Per Use" on buffs be falling on deaf ears? I do not think that's a huge change to make and it would help SOOOOO many!

Mesanna, please weigh in here.

~ Sue.

I do not think that a "pay per use" buff would solve the perceived issue. If a citizen is not inclined to donate money in order to keep the trade deal active, why would they willing to pay a fee for the same thing?

The impetus is on the Governor to keep the city coffers full. This does not mean that the Governor is expected to pay out of pocket for the trade deals for the entirety of their term. What this does, however, mean is that the Governor should be actively pursuing means to raise money for the trade buffs in coordination with their citizenry. There are a variety of ways to raise funds - whether via trade or just good old fashioned dungeon crawling the idea is to engage your citizens and bring them together, playing towards a common goal - whatever that may be.

If in playing towards those goals you find there are tools you, as a Governor, would like to have that could facilitate progress towards that goal let us know - being pragmatic about those types of tools really helps!

 

[Kyronix]

@Kyronix Requests are a big issue with the governor system and each shard seems to be handling them in markedly different ways, that's a bad thing. Whatever rules or expectations exist need to be uniform across all shards; the EMs on Shard A shouldn't be able to do things that the EMs on Shard B say no to. Currently, that's how the system is. Having everything be timered is also a bad thing.

A library of potential improvements sounds great, but I fear we'll lose individuality amongst the shards if everything else a governor asks for is either denied or stamped with an expiration date. I foresee an automated system becoming a crutch for the less active, or less involved, EMs.

Right now though, the biggest issue has to be the trade deals. Citizens have zero incentive to chip in for these, leaving the governors to foot the 24-26 mil price per term. Not everyone has seen the acquisition of massive amounts digital gold as a worthwhile goal in UO. This needs to be fixed asap.
Ways to help:

• Banners purchased from the city guard see the gold go into the city's coffers
• Trade Ministers send a certain amount of gold into the coffers based on what they get
• Trade Deals are halved in price to 1 mil, or lower
• Utilization of trade deals costs the citizen 10-50K in gold per use.

It also might be a good idea to double the buff strength from trade deals so they aren't just a longer lasting fish pie buff. More people will see them as worthwhile then.

We are working constantly with our Event Moderators to better the Governor system. It's still very much in its infancy, but we are making progress. If there are particular issues please let us know.

Unless something is being built on all shards (large scale stuff like docks and the like) we've run into issues in the past where something that exists exclusively on one shard causes issue with large scale plans - hence the timers. If circumstances dictate that something be built long term, we'd examine keeping those structures permanent on a case by case basis. Something like a "triumph" celebrating the victory over a lengthy invasion comes to mind in that example.

With regard to losing individuality we have to be somewhat pragmatic about it. I am all for each shard being unique, that is one of the fundamental features of UO that makes it so great. As we move beyond the beginning stages of these additions we can investigate providing a means to promote individuality with what can be done whilst still preserving aesthetic integrity within our cities. Our Event Moderators work WAY above and beyond what is required of them. Providing some automation to the system serves to ease some of what is required of them out of this, while still providing the interaction that makes it feel dynamic and real.

See my other post for the trade deals and "pay per use". Some of your other suggestions could be helpful in augmenting what I talked about in the other response, and will think about the best way to implement them.

Thanks again for the feedback!

 

[Bianca_CoD]

I do not think that a "pay per use" buff would solve the perceived issue. If a citizen is not inclined to donate money in order to keep the trade deal active, why would they willing to pay a fee for the same thing?

The impetus is on the Governor to keep the city coffers full. This does not mean that the Governor is expected to pay out of pocket for the trade deals for the entirety of their term. What this does, however, mean is that the Governor should be actively pursuing means to raise money for the trade buffs in coordination with their citizenry. There are a variety of ways to raise funds - whether via trade or just good old fashioned dungeon crawling the idea is to engage your citizens and bring them together, playing towards a common goal - whatever that may be.

If in playing towards those goals you find there are tools you, as a Governor, would like to have that could facilitate progress towards that goal let us know - being pragmatic about those types of tools really helps!

@Kyronix --- While I agree with you that the Governors should be raising the funds to do that, please consider that on some shards that are not as populated it is almost an impossibility to keep that up. The expectation that Governors are supposed to pay for these buffs is being felt throughout ALL shards. Tools to help facilitate fundage would be useful and welcomed. My GM suggested in this thread a "Governor Merchant" that's connected to the treasury directly by the city's stone would be a fantastic addition. Dot's idea of the City Banners being connected to the stone was also a really good idea.

 

[Dot_Warner]

I do not think that a "pay per use" buff would solve the perceived issue. If a citizen is not inclined to donate money in order to keep the trade deal active, why would they willing to pay a fee for the same thing?

On most shards, people are getting the buff for FREE. So you're right, why spend gold on something that's only a few clicks away. But you're right for the wrong reason. Like electricity, human nature is to follow path of least resistance. If we can get something for free, even if a donation is "asked for," most people won't donate. Right now, the city buffs are like samples in a grocery store; there for everyone to take without anything in return. That's not a viable concept in a game.

The impetus is on the Governor to keep the city coffers full. This does not mean that the Governor is expected to pay out of pocket for the trade deals for the entirety of their term. What this does, however, mean is that the Governor should be actively pursuing means to raise money for the trade buffs in coordination with their citizenry. There are a variety of ways to raise funds - whether via trade or just good old fashioned dungeon crawling the idea is to engage your citizens and bring them together, playing towards a common goal - whatever that may be.

While your intention may not be for the governors to pay out of pocket for the buffs, that's certainly not the reality for the past 9 months. If people don't donate, the governor is expected to pick up the tab. As long as the buff is free, the system is screwed. In Britain on GL, a few people donate gold and I greatly appreciate them for it. The majority however don't because the buff is free.

Two million a week is a lot of dungeon crawling, its 6.6 champ spawns a week if all the gold is picked up. Far more of a time commitment than any governor should be expected to devote. (A governor's player needs to have fun too!) Say you run a dungeon crawl or champ spawn to collect gold... Whats to stop most people from collecting it and then just recalling away? How do you get them to donate it? You can't. Unless you personally know everyone on your shard, you can't hold people accountable for not following along. A passive system such as this will fail due to human nature.

The buffs require an in game method of "forced donation" for this to be a viable system. It's perfectly reasonable for a city to expect payment for a special service.

The flip side to this is that governors are expected to run events. To do this, they have to spend more of their own gold on prizes and the like since unless they just want one or two people to show, they have to give away tens of millions of gold for a decent turn out. We can't compete with the instant windfalls of cash that the EM events can provide, nor have we been given the tools to run plotlines more "exciting" than a normal player.

 

[Kyronix]

nor have we been given the tools to run plotlines more "exciting" than a normal player.

What kind of tools would you find useful?

 

[Andrasta]

A tool that allows you to lock down an item with a timer so we can finally have events without losing all our setup.

 

[Dot_Warner]

What kind of tools would you find useful?

The ability to announce things through the City Heralds would be a big help, just getting out the fact there is an event can be a tremendous amount of effort. Books get trashed without being read, or inscribed over by RMT sellers, and runes get scooped up and marked over.

@MalagAste had the idea of the bulletin boards changing hues if there were a new post. Since the boards are depressingly under read, this may help lure people to them.

Beyond that, we get nearer to an EM's powers.

The ability to lock things down in the city ourselves, plot items, books, etc. Its hard to use our own cities as most of them have the virtually no decor, and whatever we place gets taken by griefers within minutes. Maybe even placing a barkeeper so they can be used like oracles.

Since the EMs won't/can't spawn things for us, the ability to spawn predefined groups of monsters. Orc, demons, etc. Maybe a select few bigger things as a boss. Limit the locations and the number of times this can be done per week to curtail potential abuses. This could also be something activated on the city stone where the Gov chooses a monster type and they invade the city in manageable clumps at random times (away from main banks and newb spawn points). People like invasions.


Dropping the Trade Deal cost would be a good thing too

 

[TandaBSK]

I can do little more than echo a lot of this, the population on many shards is low, attendance for example since in addition to being Governor, I am staff at the longest running player auction on great lakes had steadily dropped. We get good turn out for holiday especially Christmas but we give away over 500 million gold in prizes and Santa bags. We accumulate gold through a 5% fee on items sold and through donations from a loyal group of patrons.

Role play is a wonderful feature in this game, but plot line, dialogue based events such don't draw a crowd. If there is NOT a big payoff of some sort most players go on about their normal routine in game. I have set up vendors at my personal home in Minoc and try to use sales of looted items to fun the trade deal, and I'll tell you the donations to the city stone in a town on Great Lakes with about maybe 10 characters (NOTE Not players) is hard. Every spare cent I gather from hunting, etc goes into the stone.

I don't know if an NPC vendor rental attached to a city much like New Magincia (but not in a fenced in pen) *frowns* is viable? Perhaps if citizens could vend through a city vendor and a portion of that went into the coffers say perhaps 2-3% of sales. They could say purchase a vendor (a portion again going to the city stone) perhaps more costly than a regulation vendor, can place it near an existing city building, term of rental would be perhaps weekly. So no storing huge amounts of excess gold or bods.

Basic prep for events like tables, chairs, plants or deco would aid in atmosphere or a temporary "house" placement like was done for Rare's fest.

 

[Speranza]

@Kyronix My Wishlist:

• City Loyalty used to pay for buffs
• Governor lock down inside the guard zone
  • These could be on a timer, or unlocked each term
• Communication tools that goes BEYOND citizens
  • Town Criers for player events (all cities not just your city)
    
  • Communication Crystals
  • In Game Boards
• Benefits for being an "ally or enemy" with another city on a political level
• A bigger wish list!

 

[Riyana]

I really like the city herald and lock down ideas. I know there are always griefing concerns, but its a pretty small list of governors per shard and abusers can easily be booted by the EMs.

The thing about city herald/town criers, though, is that they need to be accessible by as many people as possible to get messages and event news out. Limiting such a system to individual towns will present the same problem that the woefully underused message boards have: only a few people will ever see it.

I'm thinking that each town INCLUDING non-loyalty towns could have an embassy of sorts, where players could check in and get news from town crier type "ambassadors" and utilize message boards. Basically a centralized information hub. Each loyalty town could have its own in-town crier, and all the towns' messages would be transmitted to the embassy crier. Or something like that.

I agree that the trade deal cost is burdensome to governors, especially as we often (and should) hold other events and spend lots of money on those too. Most people don't donate. End of story. It doesn't seem to matter how many events you hold or how good they are or how much money people make there, they don't donate because they assume someone else will. That 'someone else', in practice, is almost invariably the governor him/herself. It's EXPENSIVE to be a governor, and it really should be accessible to anyone, not just wealthier players.

However, I think that communication is even more important an issue for the success of the governor system than the trade deal cost. A trade deal is just a perk; what will really make a city is what goes on there. There are still a lot of people who don't even know there IS a governor system. It's hard getting word out on anything in UO.

 

[MalagAste]

I've found the entire system to be largely disappointing.

From the sounds of it at the beginning I had high hopes of it not only promoting RP and helping to build community but to it being able to improve the Cities in ways you DEV's might not have realized player want.

Things like the Stable that was added to Vesper. A LONG needed oversite that has now been corrected.

Yet Yew and Minoc are still without a proper dock. Not that I want Yew added to the Fishmonger system or anything "BIG" like that but I had always hoped Yew would get a "real" dock... a place to launch and dock your ship from.... there are plenty of great area's where this could be placed.... There is one right near the Flour Mill. A perfect cove there that would hold a nice size dock.

Can't understand why Tokuno can get a Dock.... and other bonus's..... Vesper can get a long needed Stable... but Yew and Minoc are told to fly a kite about getting a useful dock.

Fact of the matter is many "Governors" are compassionate about their city. Yew was a place I called home since I began playing UO some 13 to 15 years ago... It's been my home ever since and I've loved it... The swamp was something that effected my characters everyday life. RP wise my Yew characters spent YEARS researching a "cure" to this blight... When it was finally cured my characters rejoiced...

This is just something that I know I'm not alone in. I know many folk are very passionate about their city. Another thing is the far farm in Yew was always meant to have a bridge... the road ends on the mainland and begins again on the far side of the bay.... this was meant to have a bridge. Heck we'd be happy with a teleport.... or a ferry system like Skara Brae.... but yet we are rejected in that appeal..... which was done in a VERY RP manner with RP reasoning's and RP needs.

As for the Trade Deals... My character doesn't even fight... she don't hunt and she would NEVER hurt anything... so "hunting' for gold is NOT something she'd ever do..... She's a healer by nature... which doesn't pay the bills and it certainly doesn't fund any trade deal.... yet I'm expected to come up with 2 mill out of my pocket week after week... Why????? I don't use any trade deal.... IMO the trade deal should be a buff that a loyal member of the city can get for maybe 50k a week..... and the Citizen NOT ME ought to be able to choose what they get. Why would someone who wants a 5% SSI fund a deal that isn't something they need? Why would they be loyal to my town if X person pays for a trade deal..... but Y person would like to but can't afford it why should they not be able to choose the deal? Never made sense to me.

Just like it don't make sense to me to give bonus's only to players who declare loyalty to "one" town.... my other char is a Knight of Virtue..... the last thing he would EVER do would be to choose one virtue over another to be "loyal' to..... But the system doesn't reward you for being loyal to all of them.... How is that benefiting the community?

What exactly is the purpose of running for governor if it is not to better your city and such? If I'm just a figurehead I could have stayed as Mayor and never needed you to put a label of "governor" over my head. Because quite frankly almost no one cares except the select few who RP.

Just my opinion.

 

[Riyana]

Speaking of the trade deals, though, I've always thought citizens of a city with an active trade deal should be able to choose their own buff. For example: say the Vesper stone has 2M gold in it and the governor activates the trade deal. The deal should be with all the guilds, not just one. (I mean, seriously, from a RP standpoint the trade guilds are extorting the hell out the cities! 2M/week for a single guild!) So a citizen of Vesper could choose SDI or MR or SSI or whatever floats their boat.

Why? Because having different buffs tied to different cities makes players loyal to the trade guilds rather than to the cities. Get a different governor in who changes the deal and suddenly half the citizens jump ship. Or someone really needs a certain buff but the city they love has a different one. This seems antithetical to the supposed RP spirit of the system.

It seems like what was sold to us as a RP system is and was intended to double as a gold sink. That's not going to work. RPers are typically not the ones swimming in gold.

 

[Dot_Warner]

I wholeheartedly agree with changing the way the Trade Deal system works. (Heck, the gump that pops up when you accept the governorship outright LIES to you about trade deals..."Indefinitely" it say...)

Allowing the citizen to choose their own buff from the list _ and then pay for it themselves _ is an excellent idea! (Trade Deals as a goal sink is a failure) Trade Deals as a community event is a losing proposition as well. Getting things for free makes people lazy. People don't donate because they get the deal for free. Its expected of a governor to provide a deal, especially in the more "popular" cities. If Britain goes without one for more then a few hours, my ICQ goes crazy and people whine in gen chat instead of donating to get what they want.

Award a substantial amount of loyalty for donating and give us alternative (read: forced) methods of funding them. Tax gold (say 10%) on mobs in a city's anti-virtue dungeon, use Blackthorn's for Britain since Despise is vacant 99.99% of the time and tax shipping (pirate/merchant ships) for Vesper. Set the Underworld/Abyss to rotate through the cities every day for fairness. Add in taxes from some of the other ideas: in-city player vendors, banner purchases, etc. Then have the Crown "match" the funds. Having to pay a fee to use the deal should still be part of it too, call it a license, make it 5K a pop. Presto, a self-sustaining system that takes the burden off the Governors. It worked for factions, it can work for governors.

The adage "There is no such thing as a free lunch..." applies here.

 

[Flutter]

I personally don't mind funding the trade deals. I feel like I am actually helping people and I enjoy that aspect.
I do think that people who pay for those titles "Baron of Moonglow" for example, that gold should go directly to the stone.
That way, they still have their gold sink, and those less than rich governors can afford to keep the buffs up longer.

Also, since almost everyone enjoys deco for their houses, or to sell for profit, perhaps a random donation to the stone gives a random decorative item that appears in that particular city. I personally think this idea is awesome. Rank it similar to the deco that pops up at the primevil lich spawn. The more the person donates the better and fancier the item they get. Nothing game breaking, nothing with mods. Just deco that items that they may find in the city they are donating to. Sort of like the rubble of Magincia. I know this idea is really way out there, but it is an amazing way to get gold onto the stone (devs read: out of the game) and assist the governors in keeping up their trade deals. @Kyronix is this something that is possible?

 

[Flutter]

@Kyronix My Wishlist:

• City Loyalty used to pay for buffs
• Governor lock down inside the guard zone
  • These could be on a timer, or unlocked each term
• Communication tools that goes BEYOND citizens
  • Town Criers for player events (all cities not just your city)
    
  • Communication Crystals
  • In Game Boards
• Benefits for being an "ally or enemy" with another city on a political level
• A bigger wish list!

I love all the ideas except for the Town Criers. There's just too much room for abuse. It's bad enough I see all the other smack talk spam while trying to communicate in chat....