Governor Election Vote Griefing

[Matthias O'Hare]

I loved being a governor, I also hated it too. I really wonder with all the grief that gets thrown at them from the cheap seats why anyone would bother.

Was out on Great Lakes tonight... I did my tour of the seven cities I could potentially cast a vote in when I find this wonderful treat in Britain.

Really, the lowest of lows. Also a clear violation of the terms of service, but most of us that have been on the end of harassment really know how unlikely they are to be enforced. I ICQd Dot about it, she said she was aware and trying to work on it. HOPEFULLY this gets resolved.

Dot Warner (of City-State of Britain) has been the governor of Britain since Manx's schedule changed after the first term. She has put in a TON of time on events as well as bankrolling many events and much of the trade deal. During the third election, a large guild known for griefing tried to win the city. They threatened players during this election that there would be future griefing if they were not allowed to have Britain. GL banded together and beat them. Now it looks like we are getting to deal with that future threat of grief and harassment. Someone has created a fake Dot Warner and created a fake guild called City-State of Britannia to be as close to her real one.

Broadsword is really getting a lot of volunteer work from many of the players that work hard across the shards as governors. Volunteer work that goes into encouraging other players to enjoy the game, have a good time, and keep playing UO. These volunteers running for governor should be able to do it unmolested and with knowledge that Broadsword is going to protect them from the harassment of griefers.

 

[Voodoo Bad Mojo]

while i dont like their tactics who are we to say how people play?
some people like to manipulate and play underhanded, thats where they get their joy.
they are paying subscribers just like me and you, so who are we to tell them they cant do stuff like this when the game allows it?
this is the same kinda stuff that historically has happened in factions over the years.
last time you guys rallied the troops and won the day, i find it hard to believe you couldn't do it once more.

 

[Matthias O'Hare]

It's in the Rules of Conduct that we each agreed to that you can't target someone for harassment nor can you impersonate them.

 

[Matthias O'Hare]

last time you guys rallied the troops and won the day, i find it hard to believe you couldn't do it once more.

I have a life. Dot Warner has a life. Most of the people playing this game have lives. The only way to rally the troops against this would be to swear off our lives to sit by the stone 24/7 and painstakingly make sure every person that had wanted to vote for her knows which one is really her and doesn't get confused when they go to vote.

 

[The Zog historian]

It's in the Rules of Conduct that we each agreed to that you can't target someone for harassment nor can you impersonate them.

The Rules of Conduct actually state, "You may not impersonate any Ultima Online Customer Support representative or other employee of Electronic Arts, past or present." It doesn't say anything about other players. Note that I'm not defending this low "tactic" -- heaven knows I got more than angry when a couple of friends got scammed out of artifacts way back when by impersonators -- but it's difficult for a GM to act as a referee here.

Frankly, I'm surprised this hasn't been done before. I'm reminded of the movie "The Distinguished Gentleman" in which Eddie Murphy's character capitalizes on having a similar name to a recently deceased politician.

 

[Uriah Heep]

Common sense and decency should play a part in gameplay. Not everything that can possibly ever ever be done wrong needs to be in writing fer cryin out loud...I really don't see the need for a 1000 page legal document naming every sin you cannot commit just for a game. sheeesh

But then, until Broadsword gets some people online to actually control this crap, it will get worse and worse. I suspect that if these people got 72'd a few times, they might learn something.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

If nothing is done about this I guess I'll have to live with it -- going back a long time one of this game's oddest traditions is giving a freer ranger of action to other players in hurting each other than it probably should. (I've had multiple times where I was the victim of in-game harassment clearer than in this case, and nothing was done. And I've been impersonated on several occasions.)

The naming policy is located here. Whether or not it prohibits this may be ambiguous. (Though in deciding my own conduct I'd definitely interpret the policy to prohibit it; I'd say it's too close to Section 4.)

But what's not ambiguous is that we as players should, at minimum, universally not defend it in the slightest.

The real issue here to me is people who would either defend this, or defend the right to do it, or really anything close to that.

It's the fact that we as players will tolerate it that ensures it'll go on. No one should defend this as a playstyle or a choice. And, I argue, there's a nicely contiguous line between stuff like this and the mentality that recently caused someone to brag about his ability to "crush" me "IRL" (and other behavior I've witnessed that I've neither space nor inclination to discuss at the moment). There is no chance of stopping stuff like this until the agreement that it's not acceptable socially is as close to universal as possible. (I fully recognize that achieving this at minimum is problematic.)

Anyone who defends this or defends the right to do it, please do yourself and us the honor of admitting, if only privately, that you would be outraged if this were someone you liked it was happening to. Because you would be, whether you admit it or not.

People do this, in part, because they know the condemnation from their fellow players will be both light and, even more importantly, far from universal. We've had only one person defend it explicitly so far (frankly I'd expected more already and am quite pleased to be wrong), but that person won't be the last.

I'm not saying this will stop if we all condemn it.

I'm saying that, unless we all condemn it, it can not fail to continue.

I, for one, condemn it, and so should all of you. Whether one likes Dot or wants her to win is not terribly relevant.

-Galen's player

 

[The Zog historian]

If GMs can be intelligent and attentive about inferring intent, then there shouldn't be a problem. That's my only problem with enforcing a policy that you should see technically doesn't apply here. This impersonation doesn't qualify as "hateful," "defamatory" or "derogatory," and the intent is to steal an election, not harass. So the naming policy will have to be changed, unless UO's higher powers (above GMs) can employ broad, unwritten discretion and later change the policy, which they've done from time to time. Old, old vets may remember what happened to the entire infamous MDK guild. At the time there weren't so many rules about naming characters, but what MDK said in the game, and on public forums, on top of exploiting, was pure garbage.

What intelligence and attentiveness can any given GM be assumed to have with broad "You can't have that name" powers? Will there be an avenue of appeal? Or do we ignore most incidents as having negligible harm, and go to Mesanna about elections? That's what I think should happen here. A GM might not even understand what's going on, or take the time. What if the impersonator made it onto the ballot first, and the GM assumed the second character was the impersonation?

What if my friends and I make characters of the same name, and a similar guild title? I was once accused of impersonating not another player, but impersonating a guild (rubbish considering my similar abbreviation was for a completely different name, and GMs properly took no action). I've had friends paged on because they made new PK characters with the same name as a well-known noob. In both cases, there was hardly an attempt at impersonation. It was pretty clear to victims when a bunch of red names showed up and started killing them.

Mind that I'm not defending this impersonator, but always consider consequences. It will need to be something specific to prevent heavy-handed or mistaken enforcement, e.g. "You may not create a character with the same name as another for purposes of getting election votes." But again, I'd prefer someone like Mesanna be in charge of determining who's the impersonator, lest a GM not take care to look at creation date (I'm assuming that's within their abilities).

 

[Dot_Warner]

*sighs*

I was actually trying to keep this below the radar and handle it quietly behind the scenes, though since the cat is out of the bag....

This is clearly harassment, any excuses to the contrary are just that, excuses. Someone had to deliberately create a doppelganger of me for their attempt to defraud the election to have any chance to work.

This is what the ToS's RoC says about impersonation:
"Impersonate another person (including celebrities), indicate falsely that you are an EA employee or a representative of EA, or attempt to mislead users by indicating that you represent EA or any of EA's partners or affiliates."

Impersonation is left intentionally vague, not just defined as pretending to be a representative of EA.

Willful, malicious impersonation IS harassment. This person isn't just harassing me, but the whole shard of Great Lakes.

 

[Lord Lew]

Dot, we will monitor your stone, if the impersonator somehow moves ahaid, be assured that we will gather the votes needed to block it.

 

[Dot_Warner]

Dot, we will monitor your stone, if the impersonator somehow moves ahaid, be assured that we will gather the votes needed to block it.

Thank you Lew Currently the impersonator (City-State of Britannia) is ahead by 65%, though that couldn't be more than 10 votes or so.

 

[Lord Lew]

Did not realize voting was active!! Thought it started tomorrow.. I'll be home later today and I'll check it, will gather the required votes to nullify the I posters votes as needed.

 

[The Zog historian]

*sighs*

I was actually trying to keep this below the radar and handle it quietly behind the scenes, though since the cat is out of the bag....

This is clearly harassment, any excuses to the contrary are just that, excuses. Someone had to deliberately create a doppelganger of me for their attempt to defraud the election to have any chance to work.

This is what the ToS's RoC says about impersonation:
"Impersonate another person (including celebrities), indicate falsely that you are an EA employee or a representative of EA, or attempt to mislead users by indicating that you represent EA or any of EA's partners or affiliates."

Impersonation is left intentionally vague, not just defined as pretending to be a representative of EA.

Willful, malicious impersonation IS harassment. This person isn't just harassing me, but the whole shard of Great Lakes.

http://www.ea.com/terms-of-service

That's "may violate," since otherwise "Impersonate another person" might be construed by a heavy-handed GM to apply to PKs that some of us have made, named after various presidents and celebrities (though those clearly wouldn't be the actual people). But in the spirit of the elections, it seems pretty obvious. Have you e-mailed Mesanna?

 

[Dot_Warner]

Mesanna has been made aware.

 

[Uriah Heep]

I believe its the intent that has to be considered. My name is a celebrity name, one of the greatest rock groups ever. And they gimped it from a Dickens novel. The same is true with a lot of names, we all have someone famous or a movie char we name as. But, we are not using those names to promote ourselves as those people, nor or we using a name to trick the playerbase into thinking we are some other player ingame.

A case like this should have absolutely no problem being found to be intentional, I mean, come on, once again common sense should rule the day.

 

[Matthias O'Hare]

*sighs*

I was actually trying to keep this below the radar and handle it quietly behind the scenes, though since the cat is out of the bag....

Sorry, I should have asked before posting this. I know you said you were working on it and left it vague, but I just couldn't believe this was going on when I saw it. I do hope this gets resolved for you as this is just plain ridiculous.

 

[onlinegamerstone]

I am fairly certain when any rule is wrote about impersonation for the terms of service it has specifically two avenues.
One do not impersonate a Game Master or representative of Ultima Online
Two to not impersonate someones real life identity for use as fraud,

I would like to point out neither is intended as a problem for copying someones virtual identity.

Playing for years I have run into this problem into a dozen cases, this might be the first here but I could name them all day and ill save you the time by not doing it.
Let me remind you there never was an issue with this before.

And yes I will defend your free speech too including the right for you too talk trash back to me on how you hate free speech.

 

[onlinegamerstone]

I would also like to talk about how no one is mentioning the big scandal about a certain player who said they had access to 100 accounts f0r votes and was spamming they were selling them on Atlantic.

This same player claims to have sold them to Dot during this period, a period where he had a MASSIVE increase in votes.

I don't claim to know the whole story here but I am more than pretty sure there is a whole lot more than is being told here.

 

[Dot_Warner]

Let me be crystal clear on this 300mil topic.

Were I to have three hundred million gold to casually fritter away, you can be damned sure it wouldn’t be on the likes of Superspot (the competition last cycle).

At no time did I, or any of my campaigners, pay for votes.

I daresay that Dragon Clan need look no further than their reputation when considering that defeat. Loudly spouting crap and hoping it sticks isn't going to win you any friends.

 

[Matthias O'Hare]

This same player claims to have sold them to Dot during this period, a period where he had a MASSIVE increase in votes.

This is a lie. This same person does not claim to have sold them to Dot. I know said person and know that they were working in real life and was unable to vote for Dot.

The griefer guild has been perpetuating this story to explain why they lost in some sort of attempt to save face after all the bluster they made and then lost.

 

[onlinegamerstone]

This is a lie. This same person does not claim to have sold them to Dot. I know said person and know that they were working in real life and was unable to vote for Dot.

The griefer guild has been perpetuating this story to explain why they lost in some sort of attempt to save face after all the bluster they made and then lost.

If that is the case then someone was impersonating them the whole time while they were voting for dot?

But that type of impersonation is ok?
I think you only care for the rules when they suit you guys.

 

[onlinegamerstone]

I would also like to point out for the whole community on any shard that this player in question claims to have 120 accounts active to Ultima Online.

Now I really don't wish to get in the how this is accomplished but more to the why.
Let me tell you I would investigate this immediately, but I would also like to say this isn't news to the dev team.

 

[Mithryl Elves]

I thought it was hilarious when DC members ICQ'd me non stop begging me to come vote for them last election in Britain. I was offered 2 million gold PER VOTE by them. Not needing gold because I already have more than most everyone in game I hurriedly went to Great Lakes, Logged on all of my accounts, God friends to log on too and we voted Dot so that other scumbags couldn't get it.

Now, clearly the Dev Team needs to evaluate this even more and goto ONE VOTE per account. I'm tired of people from other servers spamming the one I play on paying for votes. Dot got my votes last election solely because of the people who spammed my server paying for votes. I would recommend that anyone who see's this go and vote against the person buying votes. I doubt that this is the way this was all intended.

 

[Murdok]

Being part of this so called "griefer guild" for the last couple years I can say without a doubt that because our play style does not match yours you consider this an unfair advantage.

I have only been in one other guild in the past 15+ years that I could compare DC too and that group left many years ago because they would not change with the changes.

Not only does DC care for their members in game, we have become an extended family. Our problems IRL becomes others!

I know for a fact that the leaders have bought game time for members that could not afford it due to rl reasons. I can also say that if I ever needed something in game, I could ask for it and it be there the next time I logged in!

So before you come here and start throwing rocks at others maybe you should move out of your glass house?

As far as the "fake" dot warner char.... there is nothing in the TOS that says a player can not make a char and name it something that already exist. If this was the case they would have to blacklist every name once it is used on the server.

As always if you feel free to challenge me or my way of thinking knock your socks off!

Murdok

 

[Dot_Warner]

I care not how many other "Dot Warners" there are in UO.

What I care about is when someone creates one JUST to cause trouble, as is clearly the case here. There is no reason to run another Dot with a guild name 4 letters different than mine AND dressed almost identically, aside to confuse voters in an attempt to win the election. That's clearly impersonation designed to cause harm to my character.

 

[Aran]

"Impersonate another person (including celebrities)

Interesting... Hm...

You may not select as your User ID the name of another person (unless it is also your name), or a name which violates any third party's trademark right, copyright, or other proprietary right

So like... Dot Warner?

Or do we only care about the ToS when it's our friends?

 

[onlinegamerstone]

I thought it was hilarious when DC members ICQ'd me non stop begging me to come vote for them last election in Britain. I was offered 2 million gold PER VOTE by them. Not needing gold because I already have more than most everyone in game I hurriedly went to Great Lakes, Logged on all of my accounts, God friends to log on too and we voted Dot so that other scumbags couldn't get it.

Now, clearly the Dev Team needs to evaluate this even more and goto ONE VOTE per account. I'm tired of people from other servers spamming the one I play on paying for votes. Dot got my votes last election solely because of the people who spammed my server paying for votes. I would recommend that anyone who see's this go and vote against the person buying votes. I doubt that this is the way this was all intended.

First off I really appreciate you coming forward so I didn't have to point a finger directly at someone.
But usually people who think they could never be caught never mind being identified.

Although your story is news to me, which has been your reputation as of late, I can say I have a few icqs you sent regarding this guild in association to something you were selling on Atlantic via vendor.

I really didn't appreciate the raw vulgarity you had to say for DC, and let me tell you when someone sends me such trash I save it for late for everyone to see.
Being as such, I can happily send it as evidence of your character, and disappointment as usual in you.

I am reminded why you sent me this? Because someone stopped you from selling something that would have potentially gotten you banned?
No joke you were trying to royally screw someone over and were caught and removed the item quickly and sent icqs to everyone I know of the most vulgar trash man could read.

You say your quitting, lets hope so, as the game cant but improve in your absence.

 

[kelmo]

*smiles*... Sometimes sneaking, misrepresentation and out right lying are the only things some crews have going for them. I have weathered such attacks. Stay true to yerself and yer friends. Ye will be all right.

 

[Dot_Warner]

Or do we only care about the ToS when it's our friends?

Nice try at sophistry, however, that is a cartoon character, not a real person or celebrity. A cartoon character too few even know of at that. About as close as I get to that character is name and hair color. I don't go around being cute, don't say hello nurse, don't have wacky brothers, or say my full name is Princess Angelina Contessa Louisa Francesca Banana Fanna Bo Besca the Third.

The other Dot IS claiming to be ME.

Ways to KNOW its me:
I have the "Governor of Britain" title on at all times.
I have my guild name and guild title up at all times.
My armor isn't crap.

 

[Lady Michelle]

Interesting... Hm...



So like... Dot Warner?


Or do we only care about the ToS when it's our friends?

Applies to real life celebs not toons or or their tv characters.
example I can't create a character named Misha Collins then go personating him. I can create a character named Castiel

 

[Aran]

Nice try at sophistry, however, that is a cartoon character, not a real person or celebrity. About as close as I get to that character is name

You may not select as your User ID the name of another person (unless it is also your name), or a name which violates any third party's trademark right, copyright, or other proprietary right

 

[Viper09]

I believe Aran was purposefully being sarcastic there, lol.

 

[Mithryl Elves]

First off I really appreciate you coming forward so I didn't have to point a finger directly at someone.
But usually people who think they could never be caught never mind being identified.

Although your story is news to me, which has been your reputation as of late, I can say I have a few icqs you sent regarding this guild in association to something you were selling on Atlantic via vendor.

I really didn't appreciate the raw vulgarity you had to say for DC, and let me tell you when someone sends me such trash I save it for late for everyone to see.
Being as such, I can happily send it as evidence of your character, and disappointment as usual in you.

I am reminded why you sent me this? Because someone stopped you from selling something that would have potentially gotten you banned?
No joke you were trying to royally screw someone over and were caught and removed the item quickly and sent icqs to everyone I know of the most vulgar trash man could read.

You say your quitting, lets hope so, as the game cant but improve in your absence.

My reputation? There has never been anything wrong with my reputation. So what I placed ALL of my items on a vendor. That book was an HTML old school book. I dont know if its illegal to sell. I admitted that it doesnt give a luck bonus. You are clearly upset that you thought it did and planned a suit around it lol.

Now really, stop crying because not one person in your guild is on my lvl pvping and i've been showing their broke asses that for years. And really, stop spamming and paying for votes. Its REALLY annoying.

 

[virtualhabitat]

I don't impersonate Justin Bieber. I am Justin Bieber.

 

[Aran]

I don't impersonate Justin Bieber. I am Justin Bieber.

Gross

 

[kelmo]

This conversation is getting off target. Impersonating another player to gain advantage is a pathetic move.

 

[Murdok]

This conversation is getting off target. Impersonating another player to gain advantage is a pathetic move.

More pathetic then buying votes last election cycle?

 

[Viper09]

More pathetic then buying votes last election cycle?

IMO, yes. Depending on who you ask, buying votes is nothing new to the political process

Sarcasm aside, there is nothing wrong with greasing the wheels, especially if it's a part of your RP style. Impersonating, as already demonstrated, is against the ROC.

 

[Murdok]

IMO, yes. Depending on who you ask, buying votes is nothing new to the political process

Sarcasm aside, there is nothing wrong with greasing the wheels, especially if it's a part of your RP style. Impersonating, as already demonstrated, is against the ROC.

Show me where in the TOC/ROC it states its against the rules to make a char with a name of someone elses char name?

If this said rule was indeed in there they ea/uo/whomever is in charge of the game now will need to ban a ton of players. There is no such rule....

 

[Viper09]

Show me where in the TOC/ROC it states its against the rules to make a char with a name of someone elses char name?

If this said rule was indeed in there they ea/uo/whomever is in charge of the game now will need to ban a ton of players. There is no such rule....

First off, we are talking about someone impersonating another. If you are unfamiliar with this topic and the content of this thread, you should go back and read as a number of people already discussed this (and already answered your question).

Second, if you cannot make the distinction between making a character with the same name as someone else and an individual purposefully impersonating another (which, again, is the topic here), then perhaps this discussion isn't for you.

 

[onlinegamerstone]

My reputation? There has never been anything wrong with my reputation. So what I placed ALL of my items on a vendor. That book was an HTML old school book. I dont know if its illegal to sell. I admitted that it doesnt give a luck bonus. You are clearly upset that you thought it did and planned a suit around it lol.

Now really, stop crying because not one person in your guild is on my lvl pvping and i've been showing their broke asses that for years. And really, stop spamming and paying for votes. Its REALLY annoying.

I enjoy you calling yourself a pvpr, I am confused what your "level" is. You have refused to duel every person I have ever met. And a few of your ex guildies tend not to have high opinions of you.
I have never worried about your presence ever sorry. It never really mattered that much.

However how you have accumulated your wealth has bothered me. It tends to give all pvprs a reputation associated with you. This being said is untrue and if anyone actually paid attention to your skill level
they could clearly see no amount of money will make you good.

 

[Matthias O'Hare]

If that is the case then someone was impersonating them the whole time while they were voting for dot?

But that type of impersonation is ok?
I think you only care for the rules when they suit you guys.

You are still confused.

Here is what happened:

1. Someone who has 100+ accounts on Atlantic tried to sell their votes for 300+ million.
2. Griefer Guild tried to buy these votes.
3. Having mutual friends, we all told him it would be a bummer if he voted against Dot.
4. He said he wouldn't and scuttled the idea of voting against Dot, and actually agreed if he got off work early enough and Dot was losing he would vote for Dot.
5. Mithyrl Elves in the mean time was voting for Dot since griefer guild was trying to buy votes on Atlantic.
6. While their deal for the 100 votes unraveled, griefer guild confused it with us buying the votes instead because Mithyrl Elves said their guild was dumping almost 100 votes on the stone for Dot.
7. In the end griefer guild lost without the guy on Atlantic with 100+ accounts having ever cast a vote.

No one impersonated anyone. Griefer guild created all of this in their mind. Griefer guild was trying to buy the votes so they naturally assumed we had to have bought them when their deal unraveled and the election turned against them.

Also, what is wrong with a guy having 100 votes? He pays for 100 accounts. Is that extreme to me? Yeah, I'd never put that kinda change out for UO, but that is his prerogative.

None of are surprised that this rumor would be griefer guild's excuse. Griefers always have an excuse ready to try and use as their 'sound' reasoning for doing what they do. They spammed this ad nausea in general chat for days after the election was over trying to discredit Dot. No one else on the shard actually believes it because they've seen Dot help countless people, not just the ones in her guild. They also know she is perennially broke from paying for events and the trade deal.

Dot shouldn't have to deal with this outright harassment. It is unacceptable in a gaming community that wants to grow, not decline.

 

[onlinegamerstone]

You want people to believe anyone in DC would do business with Mythryl Elves?

I lolled at that one

 

[MalagAste]

Bottom line is it's a violation of the ToS ...... but like everything else it will NOT be upheld.

Once again Griefers win and the shard loses... Meanwhile we are continually harassed and our EM events are trashed by trash talking griefers.

Don't believe me? Come to one of our EM events.. won't be hard to spot the griefers they will be piled 10 high ontop of my character in whatever form they feel might just annoy me.

Sadly for them I have each and every one of them on ignore and fortunately for me my client allows me to block their constant spell spam... If you do come I HIGHLY recommend you use the EC so you can filter out the garbage, otherwise attending the event will be completely useless as you will not be able to follow what's going on thru all the trash talk and spell spam.

But that's beside the point... point is Nice people have lots of friends... who voted for Dot on many occasions and will continue to Vote for the REAL Dot.

And if the fake Dot wins I highly doubt the EM's will tolerate the behavior they usually bring at the Governors meetings. But I also highly doubt they will even bother attending a Governors meeting and it's more than well known that the guild in question does NOTHING for the community of GL's beyond be rude, vulgar and grief. They will NOT nor have they EVER put on an event for the benefit of the shard. They have NEVER done anything beneficial for the community and I highly doubt they ever will.

I could go on and list 100's of things the guild will do but that would be against the ToS of Stratics. But lets just say that the guild is extremely famous for numerous violations to the ToS... Yet nothing is ever done.

So I suppose this latest atrocity should come as no surprise.

All I can say is this is one more example of why every other gaming company is 10x better than EA and always will be. And it's one more chink in the armor plating that has kept me playing UO for so long.... however that armor is worn so thin now I hardly care to log in... UO has become one disappointment after another of late and honestly I'm reaching the point that I just want to say you know what..... Let the griefers have this game..... **** on it... Not worth the stress anymore.

If it weren't for the nice folk in the community like Dot I would have quit years ago... Crap like this just further drives folk away from EM events, the Governors program and everything else.

So go ahead DEV's go ahead EA and GM's do nothing that's what your best at.

 

[Tjalle]

Sad people make sad moves. That´s pretty much all there is to it.

I´m gonna vote for the real Dot with my accounts and hope that helps a little...

 

[Matthias O'Hare]

You want people to believe anyone in DC would do business with Mythryl Elves?

I lolled at that one

Mythryl Elves wasn't the one selling votes. Did you not read what I said? Mythryl voted because griefer guild was trying to buy votes on Atlantic. It was an entirely different person that was selling votes. That person never voted on GL. Griefer guild got confused because Mythryl said (while not playing a character named Mythryl Elves) that they were plowing almost 100 votes onto the stone while standing at the Britain stone. Griefer guild just assumed this was the person selling votes.

I don't find how this confusion the griefer guild has over who was selling votes and who voted has anything to do with the obvious griefing that is being targeted at Dot Warner. I vaguely am starting to believe you are just trying to derail the thread out of worry this is going to get noticed and might get someone in said griefer guild in trouble. I hope that is not the case and you see this for the targeted griefing that it is.

 

[kelmo]

People are buying and selling votes across the shards. One man is Commander of all factions on Siege. While this is not the Governor race... These systems can be worked.

 

[onlinegamerstone]

Mythryl Elves wasn't the one selling votes. Did you not read what I said? Mythryl voted because griefer guild was trying to buy votes on Atlantic. It was an entirely different person that was selling votes. That person never voted on GL. Griefer guild got confused because Mythryl said (while not playing a character named Mythryl Elves) that they were plowing almost 100 votes onto the stone while standing at the Britain stone. Griefer guild just assumed this was the person selling votes.

I don't find how this confusion the griefer guild has over who was selling votes and who voted has anything to do with the obvious griefing that is being targeted at Dot Warner. I vaguely am starting to believe you are just trying to derail the thread out of worry this is going to get noticed and might get someone in said griefer guild in trouble. I hope that is not the case and you see this for the targeted griefing that it is.

You claim of some sort of vote buying then instantly Mythryl comes and posts how they were buying votes from him.
Gee why would anyone get the impression it was him selling votes?

How is someone running with a similar name griefing? I would appreciate a explanation of how competition is griefing?
Furthermore what rule was violated?

In 1998 there were like 47 people on Great Lakes with the name Merlin. If you didn't know the person personally you would never find the same one twice.
This is not a new problem just isolated to Ultima Online.

 

[Matthias O'Hare]

You claim of some sort of vote buying then instantly Mythryl comes and posts how they were buying votes from him.
Gee why would anyone get the impression it was him selling votes?

Where did Mythryl say votes were paid for? I see where Mythryl posted that they voted against griefer guild because griefer guild was trying to buy votes on Atlantic. However, I don't see where Mythryl said votes were paid for.

How is someone running with a similar name griefing? I would appreciate a explanation of how competition is griefing?
Furthermore what rule was violated?

In 1998 there were like 47 people on Great Lakes with the name Merlin. If you didn't know the person personally you would never find the same one twice.
This is not a new problem just isolated to Ultima Online.

It is in the Rules of Conduct that every player agrees to when they play this game. And it isn't a similar name, it is an exact replica and the guild name is certainly made to represent as if it is the incumbent Dot Warner. There is nothing wrong with there being a thousand Dot Warners. There is a problem when one of them seeks to convince others that they are another Dot Warner in order to harm that person, much less the personal gain they are seeking to get by harming that person. That is harassment, no ifs or buts about it.

 

[Murdok]

It is in the Rules of Conduct that every player agrees to when they play this game. And it isn't a similar name, it is an exact replica and the guild name is certainly made to represent as if it is the incumbent Dot Warner. There is nothing wrong with there being a thousand Dot Warners. There is a problem when one of them seeks to convince others that they are another Dot Warner in order to harm that person, much less the personal gain they are seeking to get by harming that person. That is harassment, no ifs or buts about it.

Mind you I have not been on much today... but I have yet to see anyone by the char dot warner trying to harm you?? Let alone making others think that they are you...

There were a few at wbb earlier which I got a chuckle out of but none were doing anything other then bank sitting!