Random Warrior/Dexxer Combat Suggesions

[GalenKnighthawke]

Have an effective Wrestling of half of your highest weapon skill when disarmed.
It's a tad ridiculous that we have no good defense when disarmed. According to my reading basically all good RL historical weapons training had an unarmed component. Not everyone would've been great when disarmed but they all would've known more about how to defend themselves unarmed than our characters seem to. Have this work, maybe, only when none of the mage skills are on a template; make it a specifically warrior thing. (So no Magery, Mysticism, Spellweaving, etc. Specifically warrior support skills, such as Chivalry, Ninjitsu, and Bushido, would have to be OK or there's really no point.)

Have Consecrate Weapon work with bare hands.
Goes with the above. Also Lightning Strike works with bare hands, or at least it did the last time I tested it, so why not Consecrate? Would a Holy Mage with Wrestling really be all that overpowering?

-Galen's player

 

[Warpig Inc]

Having Parry after a disarm.
Parry bonus based off skill level while disarmed. Would have to look at Parry Mage/Necro getting the bonus while holding a book.

Gloves with weapon mods for wrestlers. Dragon Slayer gloves for pimp slapping a GD. Lightning for a little taser action.

 

[Gedgerez Tesherd]

I also found it rather insufficient for 120 points of a primary weapon template to completely ignore passive defense other than 20 point jack of all trades & 'defense chance increase' while disarmed. Instead of making things vastly complex, Mythic could simply yield a bonus that 120 Archery, Fencing, Macing, Magery, and Swords all gain the equivalence of 100 points of Wrestling passive melee defenses while disarmed with no ability to actually use wrestling specials without having the wrestling primary & secondary special attack requirements. As for having Wrestling points, the ability to stun punch & disarm are adequate enough to not tag on additional benefits since bare fist cannot be disarmed itself.

 

[Merus]

Mage gets Anat + Eval = Defensive ability.... Why not Anat + Tactics = Same

 

[Cetric]

Have an effective Wrestling of half of your highest weapon skill when disarmed.
It's a tad ridiculous that we have no good defense when disarmed. According to my reading basically all good RL historical weapons training had an unarmed component. Not everyone would've been great when disarmed but they all would've known more about how to defend themselves unarmed than our characters seem to. Have this work, maybe, only when none of the mage skills are on a template; make it a specifically warrior thing. (So no Magery, Mysticism, Spellweaving, etc. Specifically warrior support skills, such as Chivalry, Ninjitsu, and Bushido, would have to be OK or there's really no point.)

Have Consecrate Weapon work with bare hands.
Goes with the above. Also Lightning Strike works with bare hands, or at least it did the last time I tested it, so why not Consecrate? Would a Holy Mage with Wrestling really be all that overpowering?

-Galen's player

I always liked the idea of utilizing anatomy. Since the base defense is already built in for Anat+Eval=220=120defense ability, then you could substitute the eval skills with your weap skill or tactics, to give the same defense. Makes it so a more pure or invested dexer has that defense when disarmed, but a more spread out dexer (low tactics, low/no anat) would be at a lesser advantage.


Whoops, just saw the above comment lol

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Have an effective Wrestling of half of your highest weapon skill when disarmed.
It's a tad ridiculous that we have no good defense when disarmed. According to my reading basically all good RL historical weapons training had an unarmed component. Not everyone would've been great when disarmed but they all would've known more about how to defend themselves unarmed than our characters seem to. Have this work, maybe, only when none of the mage skills are on a template; make it a specifically warrior thing. (So no Magery, Mysticism, Spellweaving, etc. Specifically warrior support skills, such as Chivalry, Ninjitsu, and Bushido, would have to be OK or there's really no point.)

Have Consecrate Weapon work with bare hands.
Goes with the above. Also Lightning Strike works with bare hands, or at least it did the last time I tested it, so why not Consecrate? Would a Holy Mage with Wrestling really be all that overpowering?

-Galen's player

What did your reading say about those people in history that use to control dragons, or humans that would create fireballs and bolts of electricity? This is a game not RL.

Additionally, since its Anat+ Eval + 20 / 2. If you have 100 anat, you would get 60 wrestle defense which is half of your highest combat skill. So it's already in game. You're welcome.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

What did your reading say about those people in history that use to control dragons, or humans that would create fireballs and bolts of electricity? This is a game not RL.

Additionally, since its Anat+ Eval + 20 / 2. If you have 100 anat, you would get 60 wrestle defense which is half of your highest combat skill. So it's already in game. You're welcome.

There's an Italian concept, applied to their operas, called "verismo." Though if memory serves this literally means "realism," I have to assume that they knew people didn't go around singing all the time in real life, so I have to assume they meant the appearance or feel of realism.

It should be obvious how this concept applies to this discussion. And I suspect it'll be obvious to most readers, but likely not for you.

There were 4 replies before you. No flamers, until you. I think that's telling. I'm sure you think it says something awesome about you though.

-Galen's player

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Bring up what happened in history in the past and trying to apply it to a game where things are far from real is apples and oranges.

Also I noticed you didn't thank me for pointing out what you think should be in game is already in game. I suspect it's obvious why you didn't as you feel foolish. This is what happens when people don't know game mechanics and start suggesting things. But maybe you could tell us all more history and how it applies to greater dragons and those that can cast spells, so we can relate it to a possible change that you want to push for.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Bring up what happened in history in the past and trying to apply it to a game where things are far from real is apples and oranges.

Again, read my reply to you, though I do appreciate that what I wrote might've been quite far above you.

Also I noticed you didn't thank me for pointing out what you think should be in game is already in game. I suspect it's obvious why you didn't as you feel foolish. This is what happens when people don't know game mechanics and start suggesting things. But maybe you could tell us all more history and how it applies to greater dragons and those that can cast spells, so we can relate it to a possible change that you want to push for.

What I wrote about was something different, and I found it telling that no one else described the mechanic in the same way that you did. They seemed aware of the Eval Int/Anatomy relationship, which I will freely admit I was not, but no one confirmed your formula. UO Guide didn't either and if Stratics did then I couldn't find it. (Granted I wasn't confident I located the more-recent versions of the correct pages.)

I didn't directly contradict you simply because I admit that I just don't know. Based upon your postings, and your very telling screen name, I don't think you'd admit such a thing.

*chuckles and shrugs*

Oh well.

Some of us are actually deliberating, and some of us, such as yourself, are interested in leveling insults. Maybe the basis of that insult is right, maybe it isn't, but nothing about you suggests you'd care. The point is the insult itself.

-Galen's player

 

[weins201]

As for having skill just because you are a trained Weapon Warrior who got disarmed? Sorry you are disarmed, yes you anatomy might help you, but not in the way you are thinking. You have been disarmed, therefore your training becomes usless, as it should be. Now if oyu have Ninja, Bushido or any other training they should perhaps protect you PERHAPS, from another weapon physical attack. Wait they are already figured in on the attackers hit chance etc. sorry but no, want to be able to fight disarmed learn wrestling

As for a wrestle being able to use consecrate or lightning or other types of attacks, sure but they need to be specific to a wrestler True there should be something for beings a Nija (Bushido) wrestler that give you something like that. But again need to be something to do with wrestling. Perhaps add something to Bracer, gloves, sleeves and such. I kinda like this idea

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

As for having skill just because you are a trained Weapon Warrior who got disarmed? Sorry you are disarmed, yes you anatomy might help you, but not in the way you are thinking. You have been disarmed, therefore your training becomes usless, as it should be. Now if oyu have Ninja, Bushido or any other training they should perhaps protect you PERHAPS, from another weapon physical attack. Wait they are already figured in on the attackers hit chance etc. sorry but no, want to be able to fight disarmed learn wrestling

As for a wrestle being able to use consecrate or lightning or other types of attacks, sure but they need to be specific to a wrestler True there should be something for beings a Nija (Bushido) wrestler that give you something like that. But again need to be something to do with wrestling. Perhaps add something to Bracer, gloves, sleeves and such. I kinda like this idea

Nothing I've ever read or seen in various documentaries suggests that weapons users were helpless when disarmed. Indeed, in both Western and Eastern styles, they were trained how to fight when disarmed. It makes sense that fighters in UO would be trained similarly. I'm not the only one whose proposed similar things, indeed look at this thread and you'll see people making proposals reflecting concerns similar to mine.

I understand, though, why people want to focus on me and ignore the more liked, more respected posters. I'm an easier target.

*shrugs*

Oh well. I brought this discussion to the wrong place, I guess. Too much logic for how Stratics works. I doubt it'll happen again. We shall see.

-Galen's player

 

[Thrakkar]

It's a tad ridiculous that we have no good defense when disarmed.

Isn't the whole intention of a disarm about lowering the defenses of the opponent in UO? (As well as not being able to attack, though.)

And please no RL references. As far as I remember, 99% of the fights were over, as soon as one got disarmed (except for movies). Also weapons fell to the ground and not back into the backpack So yeah, that's my take on RL here...

 

[CovenantX]

Nothing I've ever read or seen in various documentaries suggests that weapons users were helpless when disarmed.

-Galen's player

Maybe they were skilled wrestlers, as well as a weapon-master.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Isn't the whole intention of a disarm about lowering the defenses of the opponent in UO? (As well as not being able to attack, though.)

And please no RL references. As far as I remember, 99% of the fights were over, as soon as one got disarmed (except for movies). Also weapons fell to the ground and not back into the backpack So yeah, that's my take on RL here...

I've seen no other references to 99%, or any other %, of the fights being over when someone was disarmed, save what you just made up and posted.

*shrugs*

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Maybe they were skilled wrestlers, as well as a weapon-master.

Yes.

In translating this to a game context, however, it seemed best to translate it as "you have more of a defense than you do currently."

Again, though, I realize that I likely erred in attempting to be too thoughtful about all this on Stratics. Wrong crowd for it.

-Galen's player

 

[Leira of Asrai]

Indeed, in both Western and Eastern styles, they were trained how to fight when disarmed. It makes sense that fighters in UO would be trained similarly.

You answered (contradicted) your own argument with that statement... Real life soldiers are trained in hand to hand combat... Both with the use of a weapon and un-armed...

The game mechanics currently work this way in UO too... You can be proficient with a weapon, but that does not mean you are proficient without it too. Your character will have to train to defend himself whilst un-armed. (wrestling skill)

Keeping to your argument, then it would be logical to believe that a pro-boxer would inherently be competent in an MMA fight after being taken to the ground... But not true. They also need to train in the art of ground fighting to be competitive.

The Eval Int + Anatomy defense ability is already in the game.... Either train your character with Eval Int or Wrestling, but I don't think you should be given passive defense while un-armed, just because your character has trained sufficiently with a weapon.

 

[Eärendil]

I like the idea of improving wrestling mages very much!

 

[kaio]

I think you got it all wrong.
Disarm needs a buff, so it disarms people for 45 sec, and adds a evil omen alike effect. So, you will be guarenteed the highest poison level with youre next infectious strike.
It should also give mana reduction to moving shot, while people are disarmed.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Again, read my reply to you, though I do appreciate that what I wrote might've been quite far above you.




What I wrote about was something different, and I found it telling that no one else described the mechanic in the same way that you did. They seemed aware of the Eval Int/Anatomy relationship, which I will freely admit I was not, but no one confirmed your formula. UO Guide didn't either and if Stratics did then I couldn't find it. (Granted I wasn't confident I located the more-recent versions of the correct pages.)



-Galen's player

You speak of things high above me, yet when you you tell me that you've search many sites high and low I question your mental capacity.
After doing some investigating I found it in about 30 seconds.

http://www.uoguide.com/Evaluate_Intelligence

Under the heading "Defensive Ability" which is located just under "Spell Damage" you will find what I told you previously.



My problem is that many people, yourself included, have no concept of game mechanics. Then horrible changes get proposed when you have no idea what you're talking about. Many of the Devs are the same way- they have no clue about the game mechanics in the very game that they create. Because of this so many horrible changes have gone in and caused people to leave in masses.