Use and abuse your player base

[cazador]

..let's face it, in today's day in age we have hundreds of people who are extremely talented in many different aspects of game. Maybe not in coding or anything like that, but alone myself I can create art, music, armor sets, bug test amongst other things. Why not take advantage of people like me, and the countless more talented ones. Ask us for art,music,content..you don't have to pay anyone or even give mention. Most people will do it for free...for example Pinco for so many years. Take advantage of people who are willing to contribute..and let's the dev team focus on polishing those assets, and pump out interesting content/gameplay.

What do you think?


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[Dol'Gorath]

..let's face it, in today's day in age we have hundreds of people who are extremely talented in many different aspects of game. Maybe not in coding or anything like that, but alone myself I can create art, music, armor sets, bug test amongst other things. Why not take advantage of people like me, and the countless more talented ones. Ask us for art,music,content..you don't have to pay anyone or even give mention. Most people will do it for free...for example Pinco for so many years. Take advantage of people who are willing to contribute..and let's the dev team focus on polishing those assets, and pump out interesting content/gameplay.

What do you think?


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That would be nice. Too bad OTHER companies are way ahead of UO in this regards. Such, https://www.everquest2.com/player-studio Also in EQ1].
Basically Player Studio is a program where Sony gives creative players tools to create in-game items that can be sold on the marketplace, and the creators get a small cut of the profit on every sale.

 

[Lord Frodo]

..let's face it, in today's day in age we have hundreds of people who are extremely talented in many different aspects of game. Maybe not in coding or anything like that, but alone myself I can create art, music, armor sets, bug test amongst other things. Why not take advantage of people like me, and the countless more talented ones. Ask us for art,music,content..you don't have to pay anyone or even give mention. Most people will do it for free...for example Pinco for so many years. Take advantage of people who are willing to contribute..and let's the dev team focus on polishing those assets, and pump out interesting content/gameplay.

What do you think?


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Probably because EA/UO does not want to get sued like they were before.

 

[cazador]

Well I'm sure the 6 Figure lawyers can figure out a simple form to remove any issues with people and copyright infringements. The issue is there is little to no care for their oldest MMO...fact


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[kelmo]

Interesting... keep it clean.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Well I'm sure the 6 Figure lawyers can figure out a simple form to remove any issues with people and copyright infringements. The issue is there is little to no care for their oldest MMO...fact


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Sorry if you took my post wrong, I did not say it was a bad idea, I just stated a possible reason why UO/EA would not want to go down this road again. UO had a volunteer program and a few of them sued UO/EA and won so all those programs were stopped. You basically may not enhance the UO environment with out compensation, IE some form of pay. You mention Pinco but no where do you see UO supporting it or using it in the EC. It was made for the EC for the players by a player and is some what supported by UOStratics and to my knowledge UOStratics does not host it anywhere but allows us to discuss it use and how to use it. A while back a DEV/UO Producer stated that there would be no support for any kind of a Volunteer Program in any form and what you are suggesting is a Volunteer Program. Sad as it may be UO/EA got burned once and I do not think they will put themselves in any position to be burned again. In the state of Calif. no matter what papers you sign legally you can never sign your right away to sue. You can have all the 6 figure lawyers you want but the law is the law.

 

[Dol'Gorath]

Sorry if you took my post wrong, I did not say it was a bad idea, I just stated a possible reason why UO/EA would not want to go down this road again. UO had a volunteer program and a few of them sued UO/EA and won so all those programs were stopped. You basically may not enhance the UO environment with out compensation, IE some form of pay. You mention Pinco but no where do you see UO supporting it or using it in the EC. It was made for the EC for the players by a player and is some what supported by UOStratics and to my knowledge UOStratics does not host it anywhere but allows us to discuss it use and how to use it. A while back a DEV/UO Producer stated that there would be no support for any kind of a Volunteer Program in any form and what you are suggesting is a Volunteer Program. Sad as it may be UO/EA got burned once and I do not think they will put themselves in any position to be burned again. In the state of Calif. no matter what papers you sign legally you can never sign your right away to sue. You can have all the 6 figure lawyers you want but the law is the law.

If Sony can figure how to do it for their line of MMO's, EA can do it too. It's a matter of willingness to put resources into their products, which EA doesn't seem willing to do. As I posted above, Sony has a way for players to contribute content to their games, and even receive some compensation in return. How much do UO players pay for pixel junk off the UO Code Shop? Why not allow creative players to also submit art assets for UO to be used in future content, and also pay them a small royalty on each sale?

Even after all these years, Sony still maintains volunteer programs for EQ1, EQ2, and recently they even expanded to Vanguard. Their Guide Program, is essentially the same thing EM's are to UO, quest makers. But they are volunteers. This is years after the lawsuits that AOL and EA went through, and SOE functions out of California, probably the most lawsuit happy state in the US, and there have been no problems, at all.

I am sure if someone at EA was willing to talk to their counterpart at SOE, a solution could be found. But it all boils down once again to a willingness to do so. Which I don't see EA ever taking the time for UO anymore.

 

[Lord Frodo]

If Sony can figure how to do it for their line of MMO's, EA can do it too. It's a matter of willingness to put resources into their products, which EA doesn't seem willing to do. As I posted above, Sony has a way for players to contribute content to their games, and even receive some compensation in return. How much do UO players pay for pixel junk off the UO Code Shop? Why not allow creative players to also submit art assets for UO to be used in future content, and also pay them a small royalty on each sale?

Even after all these years, Sony still maintains volunteer programs for EQ1, EQ2, and recently they even expanded to Vanguard. Their Guide Program, is essentially the same thing EM's are to UO, quest makers. But they are volunteers. This is years after the lawsuits that AOL and EA went through, and SOE functions out of California, probably the most lawsuit happy state in the US, and there have been no problems, at all.

I am sure if someone at EA was willing to talk to their counterpart at SOE, a solution could be found. But it all boils down once again to a willingness to do so. Which I don't see EA ever taking the time for UO anymore.

LOL Sony is home based out of Japan not the US or Calif. Good try.

Sony Corporation, commonly referred to as Sony, is a Japanese multinational conglomerate corporation headquartered in Kōnan Minato, Tokyo, Japan

Electronic Arts, Inc. is a multinational developer, marketer, publisher and distributor of video games headquartered in Redwood City, California

 

[Dol'Gorath]

LOL Sony is home based out of Japan not the US or Calif. Good try.

the US subsidiary, SOE operates out of California and is bound by US laws, or don't you know how subsidiaries work? Guess what, Playstation in the US isn't run by SOJ, It's run by Sony of America. Japan may call the shot, but it's foreign subsidiaries, located outside of Japan, are not bound by Japanese law.

Now can we actually post something constructive instead of mindlessness?

 

[Lord Frodo]

the US subsidiary, SOE operates out of California and is bound by US laws, or don't you know how subsidiaries work? Guess what, Playstation in the US isn't run by SOJ, It's run by Sony of America. Japan may call the shot, but it's foreign subsidiaries, located outside of Japan, are not bound by Japanese law.

Now can we actually post something constructive instead of mindlessness?

Another good try but guess what, those players are getting compensation for being a Guide. Try again. Are you a Guide? Did you sign an agreement with Sony or SOE?

UO/EA did not compensate its Volunteers and got slammed for it. UO/EA has already stated they will not do it again. Write an apology and another TROLL comes out of the wood works. Were you even around the time of the Volunteer program? UO/EA is not going to do this or compensate anybody for Volunteer work again.

And you can come up with all the what if or so and so does it, they are not EA. Does EA have any kind of Volunteer program? Now come up with your mindless little drivel.

 

[Dol'Gorath]

Another good try but guess what, those players are getting compensation for being a Guide. Try again. Are you a Guide? Did you sign an agreement with Sony or SOE?

UO/EA did not compensate its Volunteers and got slammed for it. UO/EA has already stated they will not do it again. Write an apology and another TROLL comes out of the wood works. Were you even around the time of the Volunteer program? UO/EA is not going to do this or compensate anybody for Volunteer work again.

And you can come up with all the what if or so and so does it, they are not EA. Does EA have any kind of Volunteer program? Now come up with your mindless little drivel.

I know EA has stated they won't do again, but that doesn't mean other companies will follow the same path. And yes I was around when EA had volunteer programs thank you very much. I served on the Companion program.
Sony's guides themselves have admitted to "free labor" on youtube videos they published nearly 2 years ago to promote the guide program.

Anyway, to get BACK on track since we all know volunteers aren't ever going to happen again in UO, there are other ways they can take contributions without being on a voluntary basis

 

[Uvtha]

..let's face it, in today's day in age we have hundreds of people who are extremely talented in many different aspects of game. Maybe not in coding or anything like that, but alone myself I can create art, music, armor sets, bug test amongst other things. Why not take advantage of people like me, and the countless more talented ones. Ask us for art,music,content..you don't have to pay anyone or even give mention. Most people will do it for free...for example Pinco for so many years. Take advantage of people who are willing to contribute..and let's the dev team focus on polishing those assets, and pump out interesting content/gameplay.

What do you think?


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2 issues:

1) If you just do contests... what if only 2 people entered and they both sucked? Do we just put sucky stuff into the game? I won a bank deco contest, but really my design kinda sucks, and I sorta cringe every time I go to the brit bank, and many others are also not so great IMO.

2) If not contests then you need some kind of actual system to be developed. I (and others I am sure) floated the idea of a "dungeon" designer some time ago, where you get some space on a server, and are given tools to design (ala house design) and place spawns, and traps whatever... and you would have to maintain it with "dungeon points", and said points would only come from people visiting your dungeon, or by buying them from the UO store.
Would be fun, but it would also require far more development than would ever happen.

Player involvement in content creation is a great idea, I just don't know how feasible it is for UO at this point.

 

[cazador]

2 issues:

1) If you just do contests... what if only 2 people entered and they both sucked? Do we just put sucky stuff into the game? I won a bank deco contest, but really my design kinda sucks, and I sorta cringe every time I go to the brit bank, and many others are also not so great IMO.

2) If not contests then you need some kind of actual system to be developed. I (and others I am sure) floated the idea of a "dungeon" designer some time ago, where you get some space on a server, and are given tools to design (ala house design) and place spawns, and traps whatever... and you would have to maintain it with "dungeon points", and said points would only come from people visiting your dungeon, or by buying them from the UO store.
Would be fun, but it would also require far more development than would ever happen.

Player involvement in content creation is a great idea, I just don't know how feasible it is for UO at this point.

Well I mean it wouldn't be a "contest" technically..it would be Mesannas posting a producers letter.

We are in need of a 12 Piece housing tile set..these are your guidelines, this is the template how ever many pixels by pixels..this is the theme. Etc etc..and if just so happens they do not like the submissions they simply don't have to use them. As for suing a company after signing an agreement like this.

I endorse Electronic Arts and other company affiliated with them at any time to use my work for whatever purposes they desire without ever a chance of any type of compensation or reward. X_______ sign here..

Now I'm no lawyer, and I also am aware of past transgressions of the past, but with strides games and crowd sourcing has overcame in the last 10 years alone I can't see this as being a nun foreseeable service that can't be offered in some form to involve all gaming communities..look how the SOTA development is coming along granted if your art or scene is accepted you are compensated in some form..but hey they could always throw in a free month service or anything from the origin store which is valued at a monetary value, and can be considered compensation.


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[Uvtha]

Well I mean it wouldn't be a "contest" technically..it would be Mesannas posting a producers letter.

We are in need of a 12 Piece housing tile set..these are your guidelines, this is the template how ever many pixels by pixels..this is the theme. Etc etc..and if just so happens they do not like the submissions they simply don't have to use them. As for suing a company after signing an agreement like this.

I endorse Electronic Arts and other company affiliated with them at any time to use my work for whatever purposes they desire without ever a chance of any type of compensation or reward. X_______ sign here..

Now I'm no lawyer, and I also am aware of past transgressions of the past, but with strides games and crowd sourcing has overcame in the last 10 years alone I can't see this as being a nun foreseeable service that can't be offered in some form to involve all gaming communities..look how the SOTA development is coming along granted if your art or scene is accepted you are compensated in some form..but hey they could always throw in a free month service or anything from the origin store which is valued at a monetary value, and can be considered compensation.


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I think you would get a really muddled and unprofessional look with art by committee. The odds that more than even a few people around here can produce professional level art, music, whatever is slim at best. Even so, as I say, it would look piecemeal because that's what it would be.

And I am pretty sure that volunteers signed something saying "I recognize this is an unpayed volunteer position..." etc, and sued anyway. And I think the odds that they would invest the money required to go over the laws thoroughly and write up required documents would not be invested.

I really think the only kind of player made content would have to be systematic which would make it part of game play, or a modified store system like EQ.

 

[The Zog historian]

And I am pretty sure that volunteers signed something saying "I recognize this is an unpayed volunteer position..." etc, and sued anyway. And I think the odds that they would invest the money required to go over the laws thoroughly and write up required documents would not be invested.

Indeed. They knew exactly what they were getting into. How long were some of them "working" without a paycheck before they decided to sue? How long would any of us have gone to a real job and stuck around without pay?

 

[cazador]

Indeed. They knew exactly what they were getting into. How long were some of them "working" without a paycheck before they decided to sue? How long would any of us have gone to a real job and stuck around without pay?

Right...I was under the impression "volunteer" was just that..volunteer work. Never really considered this a "real job" considered volunteer means to agree to do something without getting paid..but I guess it's apple to apple...


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[Dermott of LS]

...

For Shroud of the Avatar, since the game is using Unity, the devs there have opened up for the playerbase who have experience in creating 3d artwork or even "scenes" within the Unity progrm to create these items and submit them. The SotA devs then tweak the artwork and provide feedback before greenlighting it for the program. The submitter is then compensated for their work and the work is put up on the Unity store as well for futrther compensation in the marketplace.

Earlier this year, the team held a "Scene Jam" competition to create certain scenes (a "scene" in SotA is a 3d area that is equivalent to a Hex on the overworld map) with the top three in each "Jam" being shown via online video and the top prize getting a pretty nice package.

Since SotA is being done by an independent company, they don't have to deal with the Corporate structure of an EA which allows them to follow this design. Unfortunately, outside of UI Modding in the EC, I don't see this happening for UO at any time, and even with UI Modding in the EC, it is very well known that UI mods are NOT connected to Bioware/UO Devs, but to the individual author(s).