Remove Soul Stones from Clean up.

[Cyrah]

I have saved them from idocs for many, many moons. Gave a bazillion to A&A on LS. Waited for anyone returning on 4 shards to ask for theirs.

How many did? None. I will gladly, with glee and happiness, turn them in. If anyone happens to return after I did this, I will do my best to help them get a new token.

So either continue to save them or turn them in. There is a choice.

 

[Lord Lew]

Yet another attempt to pacify the I want it now squeaky wheel children of UO. They have no sense of community, no care for history, and no concern about anyone outside themselves. The product of this self centered society that is like a Virus spreading everywhere. I'm sick and tired of The Devs giving into every demand that has this selfish mentality attached with it. From soulstones to vet rewards to... well the list is endless. they cave every time this self centered majority cries on these boards. I can't wait for Shoud of the Avatar to go into beta, I pray that Richards vision of where he wanted Ultima to be us fulfilled, and it enraptures me as UO once did. At that point I will be able to turn the lights out on this travesty that UO has become.

 

[yars]

Yet another attempt to pacify the I want it now squeaky wheel children of UO. They have no sense of community, no care for history, and no concern about anyone outside themselves. The product of this self centered society that is like a Virus spreading everywhere. I'm sick and tired of The Devs giving into every demand that has this selfish mentality attached with it. From soulstones to vet rewards to... well the list is endless. they cave every time this self centered majority cries on these boards. I can't wait for Shoud of the Avatar to go into beta, I pray that Richards vision of where he wanted Ultima to be us fulfilled, and it enraptures me as UO once did. At that point I will be able to turn the lights out on this travesty that UO has become.

Can I have your soulstones?

 

[Mervyn]

 

[Xanthril of LA]

Here is a good solution in my opinion. But it will likely never be implemented. Let folks turn soulstones in for points. When they are turned in UO creates a log of them and who the owner is. Folks who return and lost soulstones can go to the collection reward person and if any of their stones have been turned in then they can see them as a reward. They claim the "reward" for hopefully 0 points. It would even be cool if there was some sort of notation or statement telling the person who turned in the stone. Of course, the system would have to go through its normal check to connect rightful owner to turned in soulstones. All players would win with this system. And it would probably still help by reducing the graphics associated with keeping the soulstones. Anyway, there is my two cents.

 

[THP]

This has to be the ultimate grief. Don't like someone? Toss their soul stone that you find in the trash. It could come from an IDOC or a "friend" or "co-owner's" or even a bag left hidden at an inn. THESE things should be totally exempt from being trashed!!!!

This as already fell on the Devs deaf ears..they seem blighted to get rid of old soulstones...at least they cant be traded direct 10 old for one new = as people had hoped for other real soustones......just more clean up points to add to the millios peeps alrady have ..and nothing worth trading the points we have for....LOL!!!!........

THERE IS A GOD!!! muahhahahuahahauuahauauhaaa

 

[Winker]

I can't wait for Shoud of the Avatar to go into beta, I pray that Richards vision of where he wanted Ultima to be us fulfilled, and it enraptures me as UO once did. At that point I will be able to turn the lights out on this travesty that UO has become.

You don't have to play UO if it upsets you that much

 

[Lord Lew]

Can I have your soulstones?

Sure, when I do throw in the towel, I will invite you to my skill cleaning ceremony where I will pull every last skill to the stone and then dump them, after that you may have the stones..

 

[Wenchkin]

Soulstones being worth 0, 1, 15000 or 15 billion points still has no bearing on a house's decay.

Of course not, but I didn't claim that it did.

Notwithstanding the suggestions that the most valuable things should be kept in the bank, I've yet to hear of anyone who couldn't get an account restored within 90 days.

If tamers often log out with pets, rather than spend the extra time stabling, I doubt many players take time to bank their soulstones when sharing them between characters on the same account. Players like quick conveniences these days, they think houses are a safe place. A player who has lots of characters and accounts may well store stones at home in a central place just so they don't need to check which character has a particular stone. Some players don't read these forums to realise there's even a problem with the account management or Origin. I could point the finger at players and insist they should know better and reactivate sooner, but anyone can make those mistakes. We can all say "I'd never be that stupid" but it's much easier said than done

Regardless of who is or isn't to blame, I don't want to see full stones being trashed by anyone except their owner, and only with an "are you sure" warning beforehand so nobody accidentally deletes one. This is a change which only benefits IDOCers and thieves. I find it disgusting that players are rewarded for flushing away such valuable items and the skill inside them... all for the sake of some stupid points. Reward players for returning a soulstone to its owner, but not for trashing it. There are many items you can turn in for points. I don't see any valid justification for giving turn-in points in this instance.

Wenchy

 

[Lord Lew]

You don't have to play UO if it upsets you that much

I don't play UO for any other reason than the community that I wish would return and the friendships that I have made and kept over the decade and a half I have played.

I stay out of principle, but that is getting eroded with each publish that Is geared to the cry babies on these forums, the me me, pixel crack addicted, I want it now generation. I should have walked away after AOS, a lot of my friends did, hell I went mostly dormant for 8 years and only came back due to some gentle nudges from a dear friend. I'm glad I did for a spell, but the sickness that was rearing its head with AOS us in full bloom now, and no matter what carrot they dangle, it seems that the demands of the vocal minority still win the day and true community is long dead.

To remove soulstones in this manner is like cutting a vital organ from ones body. Each stone is a memory, a history, the essence of a player that might come back one day. There are keepers of stones on every shard, holding on to the hope that these lost souls of UO might one day return. They sacrifice lockdowns on the belief that a good deed is better than points or free pixels. They do not horde them in greed, but hold them in love, In the true spirit of what UO used to be. Now the Devs have decided to put a monetary value on the stones, further crushing the spirit and community of the game. When will it end I ask you, when will it end..

You can say what you will of me, opinions do not move me. My actions speak louder than my words, and I live by a code that drives me in both worlds. I am passionate about things I love, and I do not hold back to be PC as the current times say we should be.

Anyway I stay in hope but in the back of my mind know I am delusional. Time will tell my direction, not an anonymous user blathering to the wind.

 

[The Zog historian]

Of course not, but I didn't claim that it did.

Nor did I claim you said it. The point is that whether soulstones have zero, some or a lot of points value, any player should still presume them and everything else are lost once the house decays. Lots of soulstones get junked anyway.

If tamers often log out with pets, rather than spend the extra time stabling, I doubt many players take time to bank their soulstones when sharing them between characters on the same account. Players like quick conveniences these days, they think houses are a safe place. A player who has lots of characters and accounts may well store stones at home in a central place just so they don't need to check which character has a particular stone. Some players don't read these forums to realise there's even a problem with the account management or Origin. I could point the finger at players and insist they should know better and reactivate sooner, but anyone can make those mistakes. We can all say "I'd never be that stupid" but it's much easier said than done

You're still sore about that thread, I see. That was not about "log out with pets," if you would recall, but players keeping their vollems out past the server down message, which would also apply to a server crash, and the failure of promised game mechanics.

Now, I shall return us to the topic at hand. Houses are indeed safe -- at least they're supposed to be. Like most people, I trust the game enough to keep soulstones in my houses, and I make sure to keep my accounts active. Again, I've yet to hear of someone whose account failed to renew and which account couldn't be reactivated within 90 days. So if you're truly concerned about people losing items because they're unable to return within 90 days, then why aren't you clamoring for an extension of house decay?

Regardless of who is or isn't to blame, I don't want to see full stones being trashed by anyone except their owner, and only with an "are you sure" warning beforehand so nobody accidentally deletes one. This is a change which only benefits IDOCers and thieves. I find it disgusting that players are rewarded for flushing away such valuable items and the skill inside them... all for the sake of some stupid points. Reward players for returning a soulstone to its owner, but not for trashing it. There are many items you can turn in for points. I don't see any valid justification for giving turn-in points in this instance.

If they're such valuable items, then why did the player not come back in three months? It's the player's own fault for not returning in time. There's no expectation of things being entrusted to others.

This is part of the effort to clean up items that some people have kept, primarily for decoration. I've picked up a bunch over the years, and most are so old that they don't have names. BTW, you're invited to my Luna Bank soulstone compost party once the publish goes live.

 

[Viper09]

Saving them is definitely an admirable goal, and it's not like anyone is being forced to stop doing it. But it's really a futile endeavor. With exception of Siege, soulstones aren't exactly a big deal. Skills (with very few exceptions) aren't hard to train. People have been junking soulstones for a long time already. It was only until the recent years did a few people really start collecting and saving them in hopes of returning them to their owners. But I can't think of any shard that has had a lot of success in returning soulstones to returning players who managed to lose them. Maybe 1 or 2.

Many players who quit are simply not going to come back, at all. This is a fact that needs to be faced sooner or later. I am not trying to discourage people from saving them, but simply saying that if someone starts tossing soulstones (like many already have been doing for years), it is very likely no one is going to miss it.

 

[Spiritless]

Putting aside the stupidity of the OP's transfer method, I am of the opinion that there should be a mechanism in-game to allow you to find/reclaim lost, account-bound items such as soulstones if they've decayed or are no longer under your control. I lost my original pre-order gift soulstone due to some house issue but of course it couldn't be replaced. Meh.

 

[The Zog historian]

Saving soulstones in case the players return has all the efficacy of waiting all day at a little-used crosswalk to assist elderly ladies across. It happens, certainly, but it's rare.

 

[The Zog historian]

Tiffany, what "house issue" happened to you?

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Saving them is definitely an admirable goal,

But I can't think of any shard that has had a lot of success in returning soulstones to returning players who managed to lose them. Maybe 1 or 2.

Many players who quit are simply not going to come back, at all. This is a fact that needs to be faced sooner or later. I am not trying to discourage people from saving them, but simply saying that if someone starts tossing soulstones (like many already have been doing for years), it is very likely no one is going to miss it.

Agreed. I have yet to run across anyone who is upset and ticked off that they lost their soulstones that had skill on them. Most of the returning vets I have come across are ones who left prior to them even existing. Now granted it could be a year or two before the impact hits for the ones who actually lost skill this way... Once folks "leave" the Ultima world they seem to be sucked back in after 3-5 year mark of so.

 

[Aran]

Tiffany, what "house issue" happened to you?

Her keep was deleted by Draconi for duping.

 

[The Mule]

Ill gladly sell my found soulstones to one of youts that want so badly to keep them around, say 2m each....

 

[Lord Lew]

Ill gladly sell my found soulstones to one of youts that want so badly to keep them around, say 2m each....

Validation for everything I have said thus far, good job

 

[Veldrane]

I don't think that adding the soulstones to the clean up was simply caving in to the "greedy players". There are tons of these things on ever server that aren't being used and unlike regular surplus items, soulstones have extra database entries that they have to keep track of (owner, skill stored, etc). So I'm sure it has less to do with greedy players and more to do with cleaning up the bloated soulstone database tables.

 

[Wenchkin]

Nor did I claim you said it. The point is that whether soulstones have zero, some or a lot of points value, any player should still presume them and everything else are lost once the house decays. Lots of soulstones get junked anyway.

Yes, lots of stones are lost and few IDOCers will try tracking down the owners. However that still doesn't justify giving them point value to any IDOCers or thieves who get hold of them. All you do is just encourage players to trash them before they even consider tracking down the owner. I don't see anything good in this change or in soulstones falling with houses in the first place *shrugs*

You're still sore about that thread, I see. That was not about "log out with pets," if you would recall, but players keeping their vollems out past the server down message, which would also apply to a server crash, and the failure of promised game mechanics.

Don't flatter yourself, I used pets as an example of players often avoiding securing an item in town when they could just log out with it at home. In both cases using a more convenient if less secure option. Players want to do what's quickest and easiest, not always what is safest. That was the point.

Now, I shall return us to the topic at hand. Houses are indeed safe -- at least they're supposed to be. Like most people, I trust the game enough to keep soulstones in my houses, and I make sure to keep my accounts active. Again, I've yet to hear of someone whose account failed to renew and which account couldn't be reactivated within 90 days. So if you're truly concerned about people losing items because they're unable to return within 90 days, then why aren't you clamoring for an extension of house decay?

I'm not asking for extending house delay. I'm talking about soulstones specifically. And their inclusion in the turn in list. House decay is part of the game, I just find it distasteful that others are now going to benefit more by trashing these soulstones than if they returned them. I would prefer a system where turning the stones in meant they would be stored for the player to recover at a later date.

If they're such valuable items, then why did the player not come back in three months? It's the player's own fault for not returning in time. There's no expectation of things being entrusted to others.

Yet again, blame the player. You are just as human and able to make mistakes as the next person. You are not immune from RL issues pulling you out of game and giving you very little time to renew an account. Nobody is.

This is part of the effort to clean up items that some people have kept, primarily for decoration. I've picked up a bunch over the years, and most are so old that they don't have names. BTW, you're invited to my Luna Bank soulstone compost party once the publish goes live.

Nobody needs points in order to clean up. You have your storage limits, you choose how to use them. If you store or throw out stones, that is your business. But I'm never going to agree that they should be on that turn-in menu for points. I think that's unfortunate and distasteful. You want a party over those stones? That doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

Wenchy

 

[The Zog historian]

Yes, lots of stones are lost and few IDOCers will try tracking down the owners. However that still doesn't justify giving them point value to any IDOCers or thieves who get hold of them. All you do is just encourage players to trash them before they even consider tracking down the owner. I don't see anything good in this change or in soulstones falling with houses in the first place *shrugs*

Why not? They're no different than other items people left behind, like old magic items like jewelry and weapons, which can be kept or junked. I'm not some stranger's keeper that I'll bother collecting things that nobody may ever claim.

If someone really wanted the stones (or the house or anything else in it), then the person should not have left the account lapse for a few months.

Don't flatter yourself, I used pets as an example of players often avoiding securing an item in town when they could just log out with it at home. In both cases using a more convenient if less secure option. Players want to do what's quickest and easiest, not always what is safest. That was the point.

I'm not flattering myself. It's actually a point I'm glad you're making, that players should be able to trust promised game mechanics, like pet vollems being saved at server down, or house storage being reliable.

I'm not asking for extending house delay. I'm talking about soulstones specifically. And their inclusion in the turn in list. House decay is part of the game, I just find it distasteful that others are now going to benefit more by trashing these soulstones than if they returned them. I would prefer a system where turning the stones in meant they would be stored for the player to recover at a later date.

Of course you haven't called for an extension to 90 days. But why are you so concerned about things people purposely left behind? If the people really wanted to come back, they would have.

After all, you are the one who's said, "these items are pixels."

Yet again, blame the player. You are just as human and able to make mistakes as the next person. You are not immune from RL issues pulling you out of game and giving you very little time to renew an account. Nobody is.

I'm in fact not blaming players, so it would be appreciated that you don't say I am. These are items purposely left behind for more than 90 days. I myself personally paid for a few friends' accounts for a while, in the hope they'd return. In my will I actually have instructions to hand over my UO info.

We're no longer in the days of refreshing a house no longer than every 10 days, but before automatic refreshing, my friends and I would take care of each others' houses when someone went on vacation. My cable service was once out for an entire long holiday weekend, and I didn't remember the last time I'd visited any, so I called up a friend to refresh my houses just in case.

So once more, show me someone whose account lapsed for any reason, despite the person's efforts to renew it and come back to the game -- and I'm not talking about the occasional Stratics poster desperately trying to save an IDOC because he reactivated at the last minute. Hospitalization? Military deployment? I'd even accept those.

Nobody needs points in order to clean up. You have your storage limits, you choose how to use them. If you store or throw out stones, that is your business. But I'm never going to agree that they should be on that turn-in menu for points. I think that's unfortunate and distasteful. You want a party over those stones? That doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

Then it's simple: the players shouldn't let their accounts lapse, should they.

Be sure to save the date! You of all people I'd love to see there.

"Some of us just understand that UO is a game, these items are pixels and we don't get beat up because another player stole from us."

And you said that about a player's deliberate negative actions toward another. Why does that not apply toward things left behind by someone who didn't care to come back?

 

[Wenchkin]

Why not? They're no different than other items people left behind, like old magic items like jewelry and weapons, which can be kept or junked. I'm not some stranger's keeper that I'll bother collecting things that nobody may ever claim.

So don't collect things you don't want to keep. Simple.

If someone really wanted the stones (or the house or anything else in it), then the person should not have left the account lapse for a few months.

If you want to believe it's so cut and dry, what can I say? Enjoy the denial.

I'm not flattering myself. It's actually a point I'm glad you're making, that players should be able to trust promised game mechanics, like pet vollems being saved at server down, or house storage being reliable.

Try reading and replying to what I said in the context of this thread and you'll find it has nothing to do with game mechanics or vollems.

Of course you haven't called for an extension to 90 days. But why are you so concerned about things people purposely left behind? If the people really wanted to come back, they would have.

Again, read what I said. It's not difficult to understand. I didn't call for an extension to the 90 days. I don't agree full soulstones should be on this list and turned in for points. As I explained earlier.

After all, you are the one who's said, "these items are pixels."

For someone who thinks I was sore about a previous thread, it's kinda funny that you are the one who keeps bringing those old thread discussions up.

I'm in fact not blaming players, so it would be appreciated that you don't say I am. These are items purposely left behind for more than 90 days. I myself personally paid for a few friends' accounts for a while, in the hope they'd return. In my will I actually have instructions to hand over my UO info.

How on earth can you tell the circumstances behind every IDOC you find in UO? You can't. In the real world people have lives, they get sick, they get called up for work on short notice, they are simply human enough to forget things at times. Everyone including you is susceptible to real life. And to issues with Origin and account management. To state that these items were left behind on purpose is just rediculous. You are placing responsibility for IDOCs quite firmly at the feet of their owners when you say they left soulstones behind purposely.

We're no longer in the days of refreshing a house no longer than every 10 days, but before automatic refreshing, my friends and I would take care of each others' houses when someone went on vacation. My cable service was once out for an entire long holiday weekend, and I didn't remember the last time I'd visited any, so I called up a friend to refresh my houses just in case.

And you've never ever heard of a player having a RL issue that took longer than a few months to resolve. Or that they just had a busy time at work and forgot to renew after a UO break... left it a bit late and lost a house? Or they had trouble with customer service and account management/Origin. I would love to live in your world where all my UO friends have managed everything just fine. Where RL stayed out the way so they could pay their accounts and keep everything fine. But that's not how the world is.

So once more, show me someone whose account lapsed for any reason, despite the person's efforts to renew it and come back to the game -- and I'm not talking about the occasional Stratics poster desperately trying to save an IDOC because he reactivated at the last minute. Hospitalization? Military deployment? I'd even accept those.

I'm not showing you anyone, or their details. Other players are entitled to their privacy, I'm not passing on even rough details of what happened just to satisfy your curiosity. But if you can come up with 2 examples by yourself you don't need me telling you more.

Then it's simple: the players shouldn't let their accounts lapse, should they.

Still not baming the owners huh?

"Some of us just understand that UO is a game, these items are pixels and we don't get beat up because another player stole from us."

And you said that about a player's deliberate negative actions toward another. Why does that not apply toward things left behind by someone who didn't care to come back?

Wow, searching back in old threads for quotes.... If it wasn't so funny it would be creepy.
Again, you have no idea if a player intended to come back or not. If you can't get that idea into your head, I don't think there's much point in me explaining anything beyond it.

Wenchy

 

[Viper09]

you have no idea if a player intended to come back or not.

And neither do you...

 

[DJAd]

I can't wait to bin all the stone I have found and collect all those juicy cleanup points!

 

[Wenchkin]

And neither do you...

I didn't claim otherwise though

Wenchy

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

This has to be the ultimate grief. Don't like someone? Toss their soul stone that you find in the trash. It could come from an IDOC or a "friend" or "co-owner's" or even a bag left hidden at an inn. THESE things should be totally exempt from being trashed!!!!

Huh? makes no sense at all.

If you don't like someone and you somehow find or steal their soulstone(your scenarios)why wouldn't you just get rid of them anyways now?

Are you trying to say that *******s that have a grudge with someone are not currently doing that because they don't get points for them? That's completely ridiculous.

And as stated elsewhere, IDOC's happen for good reason. You lose what you deserve to lose when you stop paying your account and your house goes poof. Anyone that values their soulstones can most certainly use them then bank them for safe keeping.

And anyone that innocently finds someone else's soulstones can still hold onto them and try to get them back to their owner.

You regularly leave items of immense value unprotected under a wall and now you are upset with the devs because they are trying to clean up the game? That's too funny.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Yet another attempt to pacify the I want it now squeaky wheel children of UO. They have no sense of community, no care for history, and no concern about anyone outside themselves. The product of this self centered society that is like a Virus spreading everywhere. I'm sick and tired of The Devs giving into every demand that has this selfish mentality attached with it. From soulstones to vet rewards to... well the list is endless. they cave every time this self centered majority cries on these boards. I can't wait for Shoud of the Avatar to go into beta, I pray that Richards vision of where he wanted Ultima to be us fulfilled, and it enraptures me as UO once did. At that point I will be able to turn the lights out on this travesty that UO has become.

Whoa!

"pacify children, self centered society, Virus, selfish, self centered majority, pray, vision, enraptures, travesty"

Someone using the Lord's name in vain seems to have a truckload of issues, ouch!

 

[The Zog historian]

So don't collect things you don't want to keep. Simple.

That's actually my side of the argument. Thanks for proving my point: since players didn't come back, they didn't care enough to keep the houses and items inside.

If you want to believe it's so cut and dry, what can I say? Enjoy the denial.

I've come to expect such non-answer answers from you. What can I say? One more time: if a player doesn't want to lose a house and soulstones, then the person needs to keep the account active. It is very cut-and-dry.

Try reading and replying to what I said in the context of this thread and you'll find it has nothing to do with game mechanics or vollems.

How ironic for you to say that when you brought up a thread you still seem to be sore about. But game mechanics are relevant in this thread: a house goes poof a few months after the account goes unpaid. It's a promise any UO player can bank on. In the U.S., if someone doesn't pay for a storage unit, most companies then have the right to auction off the contents. While UO treats contents differently, of course, the principle is still the same: pay up or lose it.

Again, read what I said. It's not difficult to understand. I didn't call for an extension to the 90 days. I don't agree full soulstones should be on this list and turned in for points. As I explained earlier.

I have read what you write. You haven't read what I write. Whether or not soulstones are worth points, the house went poof because the person didn't care enough. Why should it matter to you what happens to the soulstones?

For someone who thinks I was sore about a previous thread, it's kinda funny that you are the one who keeps bringing those old thread discussions up.

You were the one to bring up an old thread, so don't complain when I do the same. Besides, I'm renowned for an excellent memory, and it's a point you refuse to address. You said these are just pixels. Well, are you still maintaining that? You can't have it both ways.

How on earth can you tell the circumstances behind every IDOC you find in UO? You can't. In the real world people have lives, they get sick, they get called up for work on short notice, they are simply human enough to forget things at times. Everyone including you is susceptible to real life. And to issues with Origin and account management. To state that these items were left behind on purpose is just rediculous. You are placing responsibility for IDOCs quite firmly at the feet of their owners when you say they left soulstones behind purposely.

That last sentence is exactly what I'm saying. Someone's IDOC means the player didn't care enough. That isn't to say the player cared zero, but that it wasn't important enough to maintain the account. I knew someone for whom UO was so important that she kept her account active for years and got a better PC, meanwhile lamenting in the game how she couldn't afford new shoes for her daughter. It's all about people's priorities, and an IDOC demonstrates that UO was no longer a priority for someone.

And you've never ever heard of a player having a RL issue that took longer than a few months to resolve. Or that they just had a busy time at work and forgot to renew after a UO break... left it a bit late and lost a house? Or they had trouble with customer service and account management/Origin. I would love to live in your world where all my UO friends have managed everything just fine. Where RL stayed out the way so they could pay their accounts and keep everything fine. But that's not how the world is.

If someone got busy at work and let an account lapse, then clearly the game was not that important. Years ago when subscriptions were only per-month, and I had only one credit card, I bought a game time code. It's especially easy now to keep accounts alive when a game can be set to renew every six months. After a number of exploits ruined PvP, I spent over a few years not playing UO, doing little more than logging in every several weeks, yet my accounts remained active because I cared enough to pay somewhere around $1000 in the chance I'd return. When a credit card expired, I made sure to log in and put in the date of the new one.

I'm not showing you anyone, or their details. Other players are entitled to their privacy, I'm not passing on even rough details of what happened just to satisfy your curiosity. But if you can come up with 2 examples by yourself you don't need me telling you more.

In other words, you can't defend your claim and don't even know, but will stay in your typical fashion of a non-answer answer. There simply haven't been any such people. If someone hasn't come back in 90 days, then everything in the house is fair game for others. That's it. It doesn't matter to the original owner if the soulstones are junked, left to decay at the IDOC, or put in a museum where the original owner may never find them. After all, you said these are only "pixels." As I call them, they're representations of time, but even then, at some point they no longer had enough value for the person to care. Yet you lament that people will have an incentive to throw soulstones that are no different than any IDOC loot, namely that the owner didn't consider it important enough to keep the account open. As "history" they're as valuable as the knowledge of my lunch yesterday: important to those with me, but not enough for everyday people to care.

Still not baming the owners huh?

Thanks for not reading my posts. I am not "baming" owners (is that Queen's I've never heard?), but in the end they're responsible. They controlled their UO destinies, but they didn't care enough to keep the accounts active and preserve their houses and what-not, or at least put soulstones in the bank. They're lucky the Devs haven't implemented something like a character wipe for unpaid accounts, say, after 2 or maybe 5 years.

Wow, searching back in old threads for quotes.... If it wasn't so funny it would be creepy.

I didn't have to search very hard, because I remembered distinctly the point you kept hammering about things being "pixels." The lesson for you is to be consistent in what you say.

"Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong." - Ayn Rand

Again, you have no idea if a player intended to come back or not. If you can't get that idea into your head, I don't think there's much point in me explaining anything beyond it.

If a player "intended," he/she clearly didn't have much desire. It's established that after 90 days, a house goes poof, so there is no sympathy deserved for someone who fails to heed the warning. There's an old joke about two economists. Both were looking inside the window of a Ferrari dealership at the new model. One said, "I really wish I had one." The other looked at him and said, "No, you don't."

When you understand the punch line, you'll understand that if a person really wants to preserve his accounts, he'll do what it takes to keep them open. I can't believe you've extended this thread over a simple bottom line.

 

[The Zog historian]

For those rare occasion where people are locked out due to EA's account management stuff and the house falls... those are the ones I do feel bad for, but I am willing to bet the number of soulstones which come from that scenario are miniscule when compared to the others.

All excellent points. As I've said to the other person, show me a single instance where someone spent 90 days trying to reactivate an account but couldn't. I will flatly say that it's never happened. If someone lets an account lapse for 90 days and then can't reactivate before the house falls, that's the price for letting it go, and I can't feel very sad. Yet even that is rare. At least one person posted on UHall "OMG I just reactivated but my house is still IDOC, MESSANNA PLZ HELP!" And she did!

 

[Wenchkin]

That's actually my side of the argument. Thanks for proving my point: since players didn't come back, they didn't care enough to keep the houses and items inside.

LOL. You're reaching a wee bit there if you think your point was proven there heh

I've come to expect such non-answer answers from you. What can I say? One more time: if a player doesn't want to lose a house and soulstones, then the person needs to keep the account active. It is very cut-and-dry.

It's cut and dry if you pretend real life doesn't have an effect on players continuing their accounts. If you pretend that Origin and the account management are flawless, that customer support is fast and super efficient. Oh and if you also pretend that players are not humans and thus are perfect and never ever make a mistake.

How ironic for you to say that when you brought up a thread you still seem to be sore about. But game mechanics are relevant in this thread: a house goes poof a few months after the account goes unpaid. It's a promise any UO player can bank on. In the U.S., if someone doesn't pay for a storage unit, most companies then have the right to auction off the contents. While UO treats contents differently, of course, the principle is still the same: pay up or lose it.

You, and only you referred back to previous threads. Now you are repeating your assertion that I referred to a previous thread as if repeating it will make it so. It's obvious to everyone here (but you) that YOU made that reference. YOU continued it and YOU are continuing it now. And the more you continue it the crazier you look.

I have read what you write. You haven't read what I write. Whether or not soulstones are worth points, the house went poof because the person didn't care enough. Why should it matter to you what happens to the soulstones?

Because "the person didn't care enough" is rubbish. It doesn't apply to everyone and it never will.

You were the one to bring up an old thread, so don't complain when I do the same. Besides, I'm renowned for an excellent memory, and it's a point you refuse to address. You said these are just pixels. Well, are you still maintaining that? You can't have it both ways.

If you can't understand that players don't all mean to let stuff decay, you aren't ready for more sophisticated discussion. I haven't the time or patience to begin trying to explain it to you.

That last sentence is exactly what I'm saying. Someone's IDOC means the player didn't care enough. That isn't to say the player cared zero, but that it wasn't important enough to maintain the account. I knew someone for whom UO was so important that she kept her account active for years and got a better PC, meanwhile lamenting in the game how she couldn't afford new shoes for her daughter. It's all about people's priorities, and an IDOC demonstrates that UO was no longer a priority for someone.

You don't know every player in UO, you have no way of knowing what circumstances caused every house to drop. It's not difficult to understand that circumstances can get in the way for a few months and leave a player short of time to activate their account again.

If someone got busy at work and let an account lapse, then clearly the game was not that important. Years ago when subscriptions were only per-month, and I had only one credit card, I bought a game time code. It's especially easy now to keep accounts alive when a game can be set to renew every six months. After a number of exploits ruined PvP, I spent over a few years not playing UO, doing little more than logging in every several weeks, yet my accounts remained active because I cared enough to pay somewhere around $1000 in the chance I'd return. When a credit card expired, I made sure to log in and put in the date of the new one.

Your situation is not mirrored for everyone else. When some crises occur the player is lucky if they can even think straight about basic matters. Or they simply don't have time or a straight head to sit down and pay attention to game accounts. Not to mention having the funds. If a player has a huge bill that requires them to quit UO for a while, they aren't in a position to pay it for 6 months. Crises often happen in groups. There isn't some giant safety net that says "ok, they've suffered enough, I'll give them a few months peace." Life doesn't happen that way.

In other words, you can't defend your claim and don't even know, but will stay in your typical fashion of a non-answer answer. There simply haven't been any such people.

I could write pages about those players I know, but their lives are none of your business. Denying that these people existed is just hilarious. And sad at the same time.

I can't believe you've extended this thread over a simple bottom line.

LOL. Funny, I think some posters here are thinking the same thing about you. I'm one of them.

Wenchy

 

[Viper09]

I didn't claim otherwise though

Wenchy

Not directly. But you are attempting to argue that we shouldn't discard and trash soulstones for points because we should save them for the owners if they come back. Defintely sounds like you intend to believe that the owners do intend to come back. And yet it's wrong to assume they won't because we don't know their intentions? You're doing the exact same thing, assuming to know their intentions.

 

[Uvtha]

Wow... of all the things to have a 2 page argument about... the CHOICE to turn in SS for clean up points.

Ignoring the obvious point that if you are hoarding soul stones you are probably doing it for others, not yourself, and would thus probably not be interested in trashing them... what kind of player leaves their souls stones in their house when their account goes inactive? The kind with no plans to return.

Like someone else said, how often do you see people come back looking for their soulstones from a house they let IDOC? Practically never, and the few I have run into had a very "yeah, oh well, I didn't expect anyone to have them" attitude about it. And thats on siege where it matters much more.

This change is a non issue. Any outrate will be forgotten within 30 days.

 

[Uvtha]

I don't play UO for any other reason than the community that I wish would return and the friendships that I have made and kept over the decade and a half I have played.

Unrelated to the topic... In my opinion, if that is the case you should really just move on, for your own sake. It's just a game, there isn't any virtue to lovelessly shackling yourself to something for the sake of maintaining nostalgia. It only serves to sully the good memories.

There are literally thousands of other communities out there IRL and on the web looking for active participants. I'm not trying to be flip or anything, but the past is the past, and what UO was 13+ years ago is never coming back, no matter what changes are made. The world was simply different, and online gaming was a novel experience.

 

[Wenchkin]

Not directly. But you are attempting to argue that we shouldn't discard and trash soulstones for points because we should save them for the owners if they come back. Defintely sounds like you intend to believe that the owners do intend to come back. And yet it's wrong to assume they won't because we don't know their intentions? You're doing the exact same thing, assuming to know their intentions.

If I didn't say it directly then I didn't mean it. I know some players do fully intend to quit. I live with one If he's playing he's spending hours in UO, catching up on Stratics info and fully immersed in the game. Then as soon as he's had his fix that's him quit with no intention to come back. Last quit period lasted for years, then suddenly he activated when I did. I have other friends who quit and never looked back. Others come and go as I do. I know players over the full spectrum and I know how we can all be adamant that we quit and the right publish leads to a collective scrambling to re-activate.

I don't think it's a bad thing if soulstones are more secure and players can reclaim them if they return. Or if we had the warnings and restrictions I suggested before - the stone has to be empty first, there's a warning gump, full soulstones can't be turned in unless you're the owner, that kinda thing. If you weren't the owner there could be some system for you to hand them in to an NPC and get a reward that way instead. But rather than get points for deleting someone else's soulstone, you'd get them for doing something positive. When you've just claimed points on the rest of their IDOC inventory, securing their soulstone is not asking too much IMHO There are options which could satisfy both sides.

Wenchy

 

[The Zog historian]

LOL. You're reaching a wee bit there if you think your point was proven there heh

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean my point isn't proven. Must I repeat myself for your impaired comprehension?

You wrote: "So don't collect things you don't want to keep. Simple."

And that is exactly my point. Players collected soulstones and whatever else, and letting a house decay clearly means they didn't want enough to keep them.

It's cut and dry if you pretend real life doesn't have an effect on players continuing their accounts. If you pretend that Origin and the account management are flawless, that customer support is fast and super efficient. Oh and if you also pretend that players are not humans and thus are perfect and never ever make a mistake.

A player has 90 days to get things right. There has never been anyone who posted on Stratics that an account lapsed . Show me if I'm incorrect.

You, and only you referred back to previous threads. Now you are repeating your assertion that I referred to a previous thread as if repeating it will make it so. It's obvious to everyone here (but you) that YOU made that reference. YOU continued it and YOU are continuing it now. And the more you continue it the crazier you look.

So your notion of "crazy" is that when you bring up an old thread first, I'm the only one making a reference?

Fact: you wrote "If tamers often log out with pets, rather than spend the extra time stabling" in your first reply to me. If you're still so hurt over you still being so flat-out wrong all that time ago, well, I still can't really say I'm sorry.

Because "the person didn't care enough" is rubbish. It doesn't apply to everyone and it never will.

It does indeed apply to everyone. If someone wanted a UO account but other things took priority, then by definition the person did not care enough about UO.

If you can't understand that players don't all mean to let stuff decay, you aren't ready for more sophisticated discussion. I haven't the time or patience to begin trying to explain it to you.

It's nice that you feel empowered to take such snide and insulting tone. The simple fact is that if a person really didn't want a house or soulstones to decay, then the person would have done something about it. I actually seem to have the time and patience to keep explaining these simple economic or philosophical concepts to you.

You don't know every player in UO, you have no way of knowing what circumstances caused every house to drop. It's not difficult to understand that circumstances can get in the way for a few months and leave a player short of time to activate their account again.

Then show me one person who couldn't reactivate for 90 days and lost a house with soulstones and whatever else. You can't, because it's never happened.

Your situation is not mirrored for everyone else. When some crises occur the player is lucky if they can even think straight about basic matters. Or they simply don't have time or a straight head to sit down and pay attention to game accounts. Not to mention having the funds. If a player has a huge bill that requires them to quit UO for a while, they aren't in a position to pay it for 6 months. Crises often happen in groups. There isn't some giant safety net that says "ok, they've suffered enough, I'll give them a few months peace." Life doesn't happen that way.

If someone can't afford $13 to keep an account open one more month, I have no sympathy. Accounts don't lapse overnight, and friends could save things from the house. Even better, friends can pitch in to save the account for one more month and save the items. It sounds like you've never had such good UO friends as I've had, or as I've been.

My situation shows that I cared enough to do something despite extreme family circumstances. When my father died, I had to disappear for two weeks, came home, then had to go for another two weeks to settle the estate. Having no laptop, I asked friends to refresh my houses daily to ensure they wouldn't decay. Today it's even easier with six-month billing. There is no excuse if someone lets an account lapse. The person just didn't care enough.

If another player can't be bothered to keep an account active for whatever reason, then realize within 90 days of an account lapse that he needs to reactivate it, then UO was just not important enough, and I have no sympathy if the person cries over lost items. It's really so simple, so why is it so hard for you to comprehend? Are you that confused over the concept of "zero importance" and "not important enough relative to something else"?

I could write pages about those players I know, but their lives are none of your business. Denying that these people existed is just hilarious. And sad at the same time.

Please, entertain us with some of your fiction.

LOL. Funny, I think some posters here are thinking the same thing about you. I'm one of them.

I'm not the one belaboring the point. If someone really cared enough about a UO account, then he'd better do the easy steps to keep it active. You want to keep the soulstones? Then pay for the account. Ninety days grace is a lot more than what utility companies and financial institutions give.

And all this time you've claimed these are just pixels. Go contradict yourself some more. Maybe I'll tell you another joke you can't understand?

 

[Uvtha]

When you've just claimed points on the rest of their IDOC inventory, securing their soulstone is not asking too much IMHO There are options which could satisfy both sides.

But... you don't HAVE to turn them in, and they clearly aren't going to develop a whole new system to preserve soul stones for people careless or apathetic enough to not only have their accounts closed for so long that their houses collapse, but also leave such a valuable account bound item inside to rot. Nor should they develop such a system. ZERO development time should be devoted to people who aren't even playing the game.

If you deactivate your account I would think that you would realize that you are forfeiting the items you leave behind. I don't think anyone who would have done that has the right to come back to the game months/years later expecting their valuable items that they chose to not put in their bank box for safe keeping, are permanently gone.

Honestly though, if you care, don't trash them. If you care offer to buy them for the value of the turn in points. There is a reason people have boxes with 100 soul stones in their homes or that a massive field needs to be set up by EM's to display them all... these people in general are not coming back or if they are they expected, as they should have, that anything in their house is long gone.

 

[The Zog historian]

If I didn't say it directly then I didn't mean it. I know some players do fully intend to quit. I live with one If he's playing he's spending hours in UO, catching up on Stratics info and fully immersed in the game. Then as soon as he's had his fix that's him quit with no intention to come back. Last quit period lasted for years, then suddenly he activated when I did. I have other friends who quit and never looked back. Others come and go as I do. I know players over the full spectrum and I know how we can all be adamant that we quit and the right publish leads to a collective scrambling to re-activate.

And when any of your associations quit, did they let any houses decay? If they did, don't you suppose it means they didn't care enough to keep the accounts?

One more time: the subtlety is "care enough," not that they cared zero. Of course anyone would like to leave UO yet with houses and contents remaining intact, but nothing in this world is free. The monthly subscription puts people at a certain point where other things can take more or less priority.

I don't think it's a bad thing if soulstones are more secure and players can reclaim them if they return. Or if we had the warnings and restrictions I suggested before - the stone has to be empty first, there's a warning gump, full soulstones can't be turned in unless you're the owner, that kinda thing. If you weren't the owner there could be some system for you to hand them in to an NPC and get a reward that way instead. But rather than get points for deleting someone else's soulstone, you'd get them for doing something positive. When you've just claimed points on the rest of their IDOC inventory, securing their soulstone is not asking too much IMHO There are options which could satisfy both sides.

So you want the Devs to spend time for code that would apply to such a tiny fraction of UO players we'd only need one hand to count them, notwithstanding they have a lot of other work to do?

Then you write the code. It's easy for anyone to propose belling the cat without giving details. I've actually offered my help to the Devs -- where's yours?

 

[The Zog historian]

If you deactivate your account I would think that you would realize that you are forfeiting the items you leave behind. I don't think anyone who would have done that has the right to come back to the game months/years later expecting their valuable items that they chose to not put in their bank box for safe keeping, are permanently gone.

Exactly right. I fail to comprehend why she's so defensive about people who clearly didn't care enough about the game to preserve items, spreading this mythology about these myriad UO players who have trouble reactivating accounts.

I refuse to watch such shows, but there's the one about auctioned-off abandoned storage units. For whatever reason, the contents were clearly not important enough for the owners to do something.

 

[Smoot]

Exactly right. I fail to comprehend why she's so defensive about people who clearly didn't care enough about the game to preserve items, spreading this mythology about these myriad UO players who have trouble reactivating accounts.

I refuse to watch such shows, but there's the one about auctioned-off abandoned storage units. For whatever reason, the contents were clearly not important enough for the owners to do something.

I get this, if you care about your account you will keep it up to date and payed for. But there are circumstances. I was away for a year WITH NO ACCESS TO INTERNET. i left my account open and payed for with auto renewels tho. my house didnt fall, everything was fine and was waiting for me when i got back to "civilization". BUT about 2 months after i got back auto-renew failed for one reason or another. the card WAS NOT expired.
So, just saying things do happen. The billing system sucks and the player base shouldnt have to EXPECT it to fail to preserve their accounts posessions.
If my house had fallen, the skills on soulstones (not the stones themselves) would have at least been a small concession if i were to find them in the atlantic soulstone repository.

Again its not the end of the world if soulstones are trashed, but its very understandable why players are divided on this one.

 

[The Zog historian]

I get this, if you care about your account you will keep it up to date and payed for. But there are circumstances. I was away for a year WITH NO ACCESS TO INTERNET. i left my account open and payed for with auto renewels tho. my house didnt fall, everything was fine and was waiting for me when i got back to "civilization". BUT about 2 months after i got back auto-renew failed for one reason or another. the card WAS NOT expired.
So, just saying things do happen. The billing system sucks and the player base shouldnt have to EXPECT it to fail to preserve their accounts posessions.
If my house had fallen, the skills on soulstones (not the stones themselves) would have at least been a small concession if i were to find them in the atlantic soulstone repository.

Again its not the end of the world if soulstones are trashed, but its very understandable why players are divided on this one.

Despite your extreme situation, you were still able to keep your account open. I've detailed my efforts to ensure my accounts stay active, even putting my UO info in my will. That's how much I care about my accounts. Now, glitches can certainly happen with account management, but players today have 90 days plus time remaining to fix things.

Quite a number of years ago when houses had to be refreshed, and pets stayed stabled only one week, someone posted on Stratics that his castle had decayed, though he thought he had refreshed it. He might have done it shortly before a server revert. It was really a shame and not his fault, and I don't agree with someone's statement that he must not have cared about his account to be logging in so infrequently. But today we do have it incredibly easy. Someone who lets an account lapse clearly has other priorities, not to say the person doesn't care at all, but that the person cared more about other things.

 

[The Mule]

What about that (insert uber item here) from (insert hard to reach only top level groups can attain creature here) that was in a chest that was looked down in a house that went idoc. Do I hold onto that item in a chest with the soul stone and if ever said player returns I give him all items back?

Full soul stones can be easily attained and those skills stored can be retrained in a couple hours to a few days. The off chance 1 player is deciding to return or not being based on if he could find his soul sones from 5 years ago lost in an idoc is absurd. Turn in the stones, sell off some items from the rewards buy some fragments and help returning players that way.

 

[Uvtha]

I get this, if you care about your account you will keep it up to date and payed for. But there are circumstances. I was away for a year WITH NO ACCESS TO INTERNET. i left my account open and payed for with auto renewels tho. my house didnt fall, everything was fine and was waiting for me when i got back to "civilization". BUT about 2 months after i got back auto-renew failed for one reason or another. the card WAS NOT expired.
So, just saying things do happen. The billing system sucks and the player base shouldnt have to EXPECT it to fail to preserve their accounts posessions.
If my house had fallen, the skills on soulstones (not the stones themselves) would have at least been a small concession if i were to find them in the atlantic soulstone repository.

Again its not the end of the world if soulstones are trashed, but its very understandable why players are divided on this one.

Exactly why my SS never leave my bank box unless I am going to use them right then. I don't have 40 ss of course, but if I did, they would still never leave my bank box or my character.

And if I had more than 1 character, I would put them in a box, and have that character keep them until they were needed again.

 

[Lord Nabin]

Blah!

How about we put this into one of those voting systems so I can see where we are at.

This is wayyyyy to much drama. I get both sides and have been storing these for years. Rarely if ever do I get someone looking for their stones. I have a ton of old vets contacting me on their way back in.

 

[Wenchkin]

And when any of your associations quit, did they let any houses decay? If they did, don't you suppose it means they didn't care enough to keep the accounts?

Some players let stuff decay. Some destroyed unwanted homes and passed belongings to friends. Well, usually me because I had a RP village so usually had storage space lol. Others did things differently. Some didn't care at the time then have a sudden change of heart when their house started decaying. People do not all behave the same or feel the same. Sometimes you think that's it, you're quitting and a few months later a publish changes the game and lures you back.

One more time: the subtlety is "care enough," not that they cared zero. Of course anyone would like to leave UO yet with houses and contents remaining intact, but nothing in this world is free. The monthly subscription puts people at a certain point where other things can take more or less priority.

Of course the world isn't free, I'm not asking that it be made free when I ask for some changes to one item in UO lol! And you certainly don't need to explain about financial priorities to me. But if circumstances are beyond your control that priority setting isn't your choice, you don't stop caring about UO because you have to pay for food instead. That's nonsense! It's just easier on the conscience if you can say "they didn't care about this stuff" as you trash it. I get that. It soothes the conscience a bit. But it's still crap.

No IDOCer is going to have their game ruined because one item doesn't give them points. And they certainly wouldn't he harmed if they turned that soulstone in to an NPC rather than the trash can and got those same points elsewhere. Unless their desire was to actually delete the soulstone and ensure the owner couldn't get it back again. In which case I'm sure those players will find some other way to get their jollies at another's expense. Nobody would be harmed if soulstones become a safer thing to own.

So you want the Devs to spend time for code that would apply to such a tiny fraction of UO players we'd only need one hand to count them, notwithstanding they have a lot of other work to do?

Then you write the code. It's easy for anyone to propose belling the cat without giving details. I've actually offered my help to the Devs -- where's yours?

Ahh, so because I want something that you don't I should go program it. LMAO. All they need to do is take the full soulstones off the list.That's it. They should have known better than put them on there to begin with.

If the soulstone had been securely linked to the account from day one I doubt we'd even have this discussion.. Had the devs asked players "would you like soulstones to be secured so you can't lose them?" I bet there would be yes votes. But instead a change is made to suit IDOCers and thieves rather than the player who paid for that soulstone. Some players are more interested in getting points in the short term than caring about much else. The usual UO feeding frenzy, flash something shiny at players and everyone shouts gimmie gimmie! Good to see greed is live and well in UO

Wenchy

 

[MalagAste]

@Wenchy

I hate to break this to you but people have been throwing them away since the beginning points or no... Adding points to them won't change that or make it worse. There are 100's of things that need to be purged from the game to cut the bloat. Without some way for the Soulstones to get back to the player it's stupid to save them. I have a chest full of them..... WTF am I supposed to do? Ask in Gen Chat everyday if someone just returned and wants to check if I have their stones?? No one is going to do that. I wouldn't. One shard had a good idea and the EM set them in a field but if no one is tending it and you can't get yours back out of there or use it from there then that too is totally useless. Do you waste and bog down the server just in the off chance one of the owners might come back for one or two out of a field of 100's??? That's insane.

Listen it's a nice sentiment really that you want to save soulstones for returning players... but honestly 99% of the people playing don't have the space to save all the stones that are hogging memory space on the servers. Having just one chest full of the suckers I can say it's clogging my space in keeping them. Most of them I honestly don't know who they ever might have belonged to at any time since they are from WAY before they acquired a name on them. And the off chance someone would come to game and I'd actually have their stones or they would remember them is so slim it's honestly not really worth it. Now Skills like Taming/Poisoning/Begging are a pain to rework this I totally understand... But resisting spells, magery, and really any spell type skill or melee skill is a snap to work back up so I wouldn't lose any sleep over someone losing those skills. And since getting a new one is cheaper than a month of game time I am not going to lose sleep over that either.

I've actually only saved them for a long time in the hope that one day I would be able to turn them in and get one "I" could use. Or if I KNOW who's they are they are labled in a bag with the persons name on it... I will be keeping those.... but the rest I see little reason to keep them since there is honestly nothing better to do with them because I"m not going to pay to keep them on a vendor nor is there any way for anyone who might have lost them to either know I might have them or be able to check them without me granting them access to my house. There is no way to return them to the rightful owners without it causing further congestion on the servers. Now being in the cloud I'm having enough lag.

 

[Wenchkin]

But... you don't HAVE to turn them in, and they clearly aren't going to develop a whole new system to preserve soul stones for people careless or apathetic enough to not only have their accounts closed for so long that their houses collapse, but also leave such a valuable account bound item inside to rot. Nor should they develop such a system. ZERO development time should be devoted to people who aren't even playing the game.

They don't have to develop a whole system, simply take the stones off the list.

If you deactivate your account I would think that you would realize that you are forfeiting the items you leave behind. I don't think anyone who would have done that has the right to come back to the game months/years later expecting their valuable items that they chose to not put in their bank box for safe keeping, are permanently gone.

Players are human, they can make mistakes, you included. I'm not sure how it would harm you if your soulstones were harder to lose *shrugs* One day you might find you are human and you do make that mistake. If you did, I doubt you'd celebrate if you found a full soulstone was missing. I think you would prefer being able to get that stone back safely. The bottom line is life and humans are not perfect, a bit of extra security won't hurt you. It certainly won't hurt you if another player comes back, finds his stuff gone but at least recovers his skills and stones.

Honestly though, if you care, don't trash them. If you care offer to buy them for the value of the turn in points. There is a reason people have boxes with 100 soul stones in their homes or that a massive field needs to be set up by EM's to display them all... these people in general are not coming back or if they are they expected, as they should have, that anything in their house is long gone.

I love this whole idea of "well you don't have to trash them" I mean that makes it all better, doesn't it? Leave it in the hands of a few players who aren't going to turn in the stones, who couldn't secure even a fraction of the stones on their shard, so the greedy can turn in all the others. Then just hope you are all perfect and never forget a soulstone is at home when you deactivate an account. You might think that's a solution, but I don't.

Wenchy

 

[Wenchkin]

@Wenchy

I hate to break this to you but people have been throwing them away since the beginning points or no... Adding points to them won't change that or make it worse. There are 100's of things that need to be purged from the game to cut the bloat. Without some way for the Soulstones to get back to the player it's stupid to save them. I have a chest full of them..... WTF am I supposed to do? Ask in Gen Chat everyday if someone just returned and wants to check if I have their stones?? No one is going to do that. I wouldn't. One shard had a good idea and the EM set them in a field but if no one is tending it and you can't get yours back out of there or use it from there then that too is totally useless. Do you waste and bog down the server just in the off chance one of the owners might come back for one or two out of a field of 100's??? That's insane.

I know players have thrown away soulstones, I also know players have a limit on how much they can store and the ability to prioritise what they keep or throw. If you kept soulstones and don't want them, give them to someone else or throw them out. I haven't suggested bogging down any servers, if there needs to be a time when the soulstones are deemed unwanted and then deleted, that's fair enough. If the devs don't want to spend time changing things, they can simply take the full soulstone off the points list. Players can then decide what to do with any soulstones they have stored.

Listen it's a nice sentiment really that you want to save soulstones for returning players... but honestly 99% of the people playing don't have the space to save all the stones that are hogging memory space on the servers. Having just one chest full of the suckers I can say it's clogging my space in keeping them. Most of them I honestly don't know who they ever might have belonged to at any time since they are from WAY before they acquired a name on them. And the off chance someone would come to game and I'd actually have their stones or they would remember them is so slim it's honestly not really worth it. Now Skills like Taming/Poisoning/Begging are a pain to rework this I totally understand... But resisting spells, magery, and really any spell type skill or melee skill is a snap to work back up so I wouldn't lose any sleep over someone losing those skills. And since getting a new one is cheaper than a month of game time I am not going to lose sleep over that either.

On my shard there are acres of empty places where nobody is placing a house. You could easily accommodate a lot of soulstones on most shards. Even if you just stored the ones with skill on them. Or it had to be a short term option only. It doesn't have to be some mammoth storage project. If the devs come here and say well we can't do anything about them, fine. But they still don't need to be worth points. The whole act of getting a reward for flushing someone else's skill just seems pretty nasty to me. That's all. I would like to see other options explored. If players trash stones because they aren't worth points that's entirely their choice. I'm not going to stand there telling them not to. But I do object to players actually being rewarded for it.

I've actually only saved them for a long time in the hope that one day I would be able to turn them in and get one "I" could use. Or if I KNOW who's they are they are labled in a bag with the persons name on it... I will be keeping those.... but the rest I see little reason to keep them since there is honestly nothing better to do with them because I"m not going to pay to keep them on a vendor nor is there any way for anyone who might have lost them to either know I might have them or be able to check them without me granting them access to my house. There is no way to return them to the rightful owners without it causing further congestion on the servers. Now being in the cloud I'm having enough lag.

I realise the current system is far from ideal, I got lucky tracking down friends of those whose houses I found, others didn't have stones or someone else looted them. I would be happy if they could just store details on the account management system that x account had a soulstone with x skill on it then a player could pull them back that way and we didn't have to store anything. But again it requires coding. Pffffft! *thwacks head on desk a few times*

Wenchy

 

[The Zog historian]

Some players let stuff decay. Some destroyed unwanted homes and passed belongings to friends. Well, usually me because I had a RP village so usually had storage space lol. Others did things differently. Some didn't care at the time then have a sudden change of heart when their house started decaying. People do not all behave the same or feel the same. Sometimes you think that's it, you're quitting and a few months later a publish changes the game and lures you back.

A person deserves no sympathy at all for letting something decay, then deciding later to return. At the least, the most valuable items could have been banked. It was perfectly within the player's control, and he/she let it slip.

As I said, I spent a few years keeping my accounts accounts though I wasn't playing. At some points I was certain I'd never do more than check houses every couple of months, yet the 99.9999% certainty did not outweigh $60 per month. I went to no extreme circumstances that the average person couldn't have done.

Of course the world isn't free, I'm not asking that it be made free when I ask for some changes to one item in UO lol! And you certainly don't need to explain about financial priorities to me.

Then you still don't understand, because I wasn't talking about UO being made free. Let's start simple, and if you pay attention you might learn something. Everyone would like everything desired to be free, of course. However, the real world and its flow of goods and services functions on things costing money, and life is ultimately a series of choices, specifically choices about trade-offs. At certain points, players who quit may have liked to keep their accounts open, but they decided they no longer cared enough about UO. The money was better spent elsewhere, and their time was too valuable to work more to get extra income for playing UO. Someone who lets an account lapse but says, "I wanted nothing more in the world," is completely incorrect.

But if circumstances are beyond your control that priority setting isn't your choice, you don't stop caring about UO because you have to pay for food instead. That's nonsense! It's just easier on the conscience if you can say "they didn't care about this stuff" as you trash it. I get that. It soothes the conscience a bit. But it's still crap.

Wrong again. It's not that "they didn't care about this stuff," but "they didn't care enough about this stuff" to keep the account alive. See the difference?

If someone's house decays, I'm not going to concern myself over why. It's fair game to assume the person isn't coming back, because short of the Second Coming, it's well within any person's power to keep an account alive. He/she could have flipped burgers for a weekend or mopped some floors if the account were really that important, gone to friends for help, or simply asked someone to take over an account. A true friend wouldn't hesitate. Look at Storm and her 50-odd accounts.

No IDOCer is going to have their game ruined because one item doesn't give them points. And they certainly wouldn't he harmed if they turned that soulstone in to an NPC rather than the trash can and got those same points elsewhere. Unless their desire was to actually delete the soulstone and ensure the owner couldn't get it back again. In which case I'm sure those players will find some other way to get their jollies at another's expense. Nobody would be harmed if soulstones become a safer thing to own.

I'd otherwise call this a strawman, but it's not that you're presenting something false, it's that you don't know the reason behind soulstones being added. It's not about the effect on an individual player's game, but the removal of items that are helping to cause server load.

If soulstones were left to decay at an IDOC, or were brought home by an IDOCer and junked, it makes zero difference to the original player. Really, why are you so concerned? You ascribe a malicious motive that simply doesn't exist, because junking someone's IDOC soulstone in almost every case won't hurt the original owner at all. The person who left it just behind didn't care enough.

Ahh, so because I want something that you don't I should go program it. LMAO. All they need to do is take the full soulstones off the list.That's it. They should have known better than put them on there to begin with.

I'd tell you "Don't backtrack now," except that you do tend to contradict yourself. This isn't at all true about what you proposed, not just in your previous post but your previous paragraph here. You aren't just talking about keeping soulstones off the list. You want a system to have them stored and returned, and the Devs don't have time for such nonsense.

If a player thinks he'll return and really wants the soulstones or anything else valuable, the items can easily be stored in the bank. That's it. I don't understand why it's a concept so difficult for you.

If the soulstone had been securely linked to the account from day one I doubt we'd even have this discussion.. Had the devs asked players "would you like soulstones to be secured so you can't lose them?" I bet there would be yes votes. But instead a change is made to suit IDOCers and thieves rather than the player who paid for that soulstone. Some players are more interested in getting points in the short term than caring about much else. The usual UO feeding frenzy, flash something shiny at players and everyone shouts gimmie gimmie! Good to see greed is live and well in UO

Again, you can go ahead and program a system that would be used less often than the Felucca Ocllo bank on Lake Austin. The Devs have better things to do. Adding soulstones to the cleanup list, however, is not a difficult implementation, with the very quantifiable benefit of reducing server item count. These are things belonging to people who may never come back, and if they wanted, they had it within their power to save them.

Thieves are not affected here. What makes you think they are, or are you calling someone a "thief" for picking up items someone left behind? That isn't thieving.

Nice ignoring the rest of my reply, as is your fashion. So are you finally conceding that you brought up a previous thread first? Don't open doors when you know there's fire behind. And where's your fiction of all these people who couldn't reactivate in 90 days?

 

[The Zog historian]

They don't have to develop a whole system, simply take the stones off the list.

Notwithstanding you have proposed an entire system of salvage and return, lots of IDOCers already junk the stones anyway. Thus it makes zero difference to the original owner, in the low chance he/she would return anyway, whether a soulstone is junked for zero points or a billion.

Players are human, they can make mistakes, you included. I'm not sure how it would harm you if your soulstones were harder to lose *shrugs* One day you might find you are human and you do make that mistake. If you did, I doubt you'd celebrate if you found a full soulstone was missing. I think you would prefer being able to get that stone back safely. The bottom line is life and humans are not perfect, a bit of extra security won't hurt you. It certainly won't hurt you if another player comes back, finds his stuff gone but at least recovers his skills and stones.

If someone makes the "mistake" of letting an account lapse and not reactivating within 90 days, then the person deserved to have the house go. The purpose of life is not to give others a pass for their stupidity.

I love this whole idea of "well you don't have to trash them" I mean that makes it all better, doesn't it? Leave it in the hands of a few players who aren't going to turn in the stones, who couldn't secure even a fraction of the stones on their shard, so the greedy can turn in all the others. Then just hope you are all perfect and never forget a soulstone is at home when you deactivate an account. You might think that's a solution, but I don't.

So now you're not just talking about someone failing to renew an account, but someone purposely deactivating an account and not being careful. Someone that moronic doesn't deserve the same air the rest of us breathe.