Armor Ignore (1h) vs Double Strike (2h)

[Duncan Drake]

Ok testing some things right now.

I always wondered if AI is the nonplusultra regarding single target damage. I think its not: Right now I fight peerless and champs with a combination of broadswords and / or double axes (with CW).

Sure AI ignores armor. But you only do 70 % damage. Double strike does one thing. it hits twice. And this does more damage to most enemies. There are few exceptions that have no weak points.

So... using a double axe i have:
- Increased Damage
- Better Life and Mana leech
- Increased Parry chance
- Enemy goes down faster.

Here are some pictures:

Fighting Dreadhorn


Down in 7 minutes:

 

[Duncan Drake]

Here I went for Paroxysmus with a double axe. Even Putrefyers no real problem_:


Paroxy


Paroxy down

 

[CorwinXX]

So... using a double axe i have:
- Increased Damage
- Better Life and Mana leech
- Increased Parry chance
- Enemy goes down faster.

Add here:
- Ability to WW without switching weapon
- 4% DI from JOAT for humans

 

[NuSair]

Ok testing some things right now.

I always wondered if AI is the nonplusultra regarding single target damage. I think its not: Right now I fight peerless and champs with a combination of broadswords and / or double axes (with CW).

Sure AI ignores armor. But you only do 70 % damage. Double strike does one thing. it hits twice. And this does more damage to most enemies. There are few exceptions that have no weak points.

Unless I missed a nerf, I thought AI was 90%

 

[CorwinXX]

Yes, I have read this number (90%) as well. But it's definitely reduced before the multiplier cap calculation and since you usually have multiplier over 3 you do full 3x damage (there is no difference between 100% and 90% if you have super slayer + eoo or honor + eoo or super slayer + honor).

 

[Duncan Drake]

Hmm yes 90% my mistake. Dunno how i came to 70

 

[Vexxed]

Hmm yes 90% my mistake. Dunno how i came to 70

It's simple Math.....

Double Strike if your Targeted Resist < 55% (because of the 90% of Base Dmg from AI)
AI if your Targeted Resist > 55%

The benefits of 2 hits (Faster perfection / More leech chances) can definitely make up for SOME loss of damage output, but how much just depends on your suit / char / situation etc..

 

[CorwinXX]

The really math is slightly more complicated.
If you have 84 chivalry you do DMG * 3 * 0.9 with EOO + SuperSlayer (where DMG is the damage in you stats window).
If you have 95(?)+ chivalry you do full damage: DMG * 3 with EOO + SuperSlayer.

You could think that Double Strike doubles your damage but really it is not. You can miss with the second hit. For example, if your Hit Chance is 50% (equal combat skill, you have 0 HCI/HLD and your target has DCI/HLA) and you don't miss with the first swing about 40%(?) of times you hit only once. But if you have 45 HCI and some HLD and your target haven't DCI/HLA Double Strike gives 95% to damage (Hit Chance for the second hit).

So if a mob has 50% resist, your hit chance is high and you have 95+ chivalry (or honor+slayer+eoo):
with AI you do DMG * 3
with DS you do DMG * 2.925
The difference even more if your hit chance is not very high or mob has 55% resist.


P.S. (?) means that I'm too lazy to calculate exactly number.

 

[Vexxed]

Hmm.. Quick question...

Publish 81.. Double Strike.

Double Strike/Double Shot, now have a 15% hit chance increase on the second hit attempt

Anyone know how it functioned before? I could read that statement 2 different ways..

1) Assume your character has 45% HCI ... and that they are now adding 15% HCI on TOP of that for effectively 60% HCI on the 2nd hit.
2) I guess Double Strike might not have had ANY HCI applied to the 2nd swing & now it's got 15% ??

Which do you think it is?? or is there a 3rd option someone sees?

 

[Duncan Drake]

Hmm i think it increases your hit chance. From my fighting peerless i can say that the 2nd blow hits very often.

The really math is slightly more complicated.
If you have 84 chivalry you do DMG * 3 * 0.9 with EOO + SuperSlayer (where DMG is the damage in you stats window).
If you have 95(?)+ chivalry you do full damage: DMG * 3 with EOO + SuperSlayer.

You could think that Double Strike doubles your damage but really it is not. You can miss with the second hit. For example, if your Hit Chance is 50% (equal combat skill, you have 0 HCI/HLD and your target has DCI/HLA) and you don't miss with the first swing about 40%(?) of times you hit only once. But if you have 45 HCI and some HLD and your target haven't DCI/HLA Double Strike gives 95% to damage (Hit Chance for the second hit).

So if a mob has 50% resist, your hit chance is high and you have 95+ chivalry (or honor+slayer+eoo):
with AI you do DMG * 3
with DS you do DMG * 2.925
The difference even more if your hit chance is not very high or mob has 55% resist.


P.S. (?) means that I'm too lazy to calculate exactly number.

Yea this might be true but one thing to mention. Double strike i can usally spam very often while with ai i often am out of mana.

 

[CorwinXX]

Hmm.. Quick question...

Publish 81.. Double Strike.

Double Strike/Double Shot, now have a 15% hit chance increase on the second hit attempt

Anyone know how it functioned before? I could read that statement 2 different ways..

1) Assume your character has 45% HCI ... and that they are now adding 15% HCI on TOP of that for effectively 60% HCI on the 2nd hit.
2) I guess Double Strike might not have had ANY HCI applied to the 2nd swing & now it's got 15% ??

Which do you think it is?? or is there a 3rd option someone sees?

As I understand now you get additional 15 HCI bonus for the second hit. So if you hit chance is high enough (45 HCI + HLD in PvM) you may count you have 95% hit chance for the second hit (95% is cap for hit chance).

 

[CorwinXX]

Yea this might be true but one thing to mention. Double strike i can usally spam very often while with ai i often am out of mana.

Non boss mobs usually have 10-30 in their lowest resist. So you do about 50% more damage with DS.

 

[Duncan Drake]

Yea with ww anyway.

 

[Obsidian]

Are you using any weapons other than a double axe for your testing?

 

[Duncan Drake]

So far i only compared d-axe with broadsword because they both have swingspeed 3,25.

 

[CorwinXX]

If you want I can give you a Bladed Staff and a Daisho for tests. They have almost the same damage.
13-16 Daisho
13-17 Broad Sword
14-17 Bladed Staff

 

[Duncan Drake]

Well there wont be much differenc they swing at max speed. Double axe is just a bit stronger with 15-18