Just incase u dont read bug reports be warned

[Darkman]

Yesterday i baught 2 vollems not easy to get on europa anymore.

So i start training em spend all day and night to gm there skills , Come server down they allmost finished so i figure k i stand here and log back in when server up and finish it off,

Big mistake , i log back on and poof vollems are gone allthough there bonded to me and i was there with em at server down. When i log back in there gone not answering to summons and not in stables, So once again thats 2 pets vansihed for no other reason than that they can it seems ,

This is the second time i lost pets in uo and tbh its getting old fast , Devs need to sort this crap out and fast. Im out of pocket and to make stuff worse nobody on europa is selling anymore,

So just a heads up if u want to train pets be very carefull,Cause u dont know when ultima will steal em and offcourse now i wait 4 days for a gm and prob end up being told we sorry nothing we can do Great customer support eh​

 

[Darkman]

Lol gm came to see me, This was the response

next time log out somewhere safe so this dosent happen agan? I mean wtf i got to log out so a bug dosent destroy my items? really nice customer support,

When i told him this is the second time its happend with pets due to various bugs last one being house placement bug that perma kills a pet. His replie was we can not refund the money or the item as they can be traded.

So basically instead of checking a log to see what happend he called me a liar and accused me of tradeing my pets away.

Thxs again uo great customer support not, Now instead of crappy addons like kings collection how about u focus on fixing bugs .
Signed one unhappy customer.
P,s its 2013 not 1998 if runescape and free games can get it right why cant a game thats been going 15 yrs + do the same pathetic and lazy

 

[Skunk]

Why didn't you just stable them?

 

[Darkman]

Cause i was training them and didnt want to move, besides the point though shoudnt have to stable a pet to stop the game deleteing it. Atleast i dont see it was 2 much to ask for a monthly sub that my items dont get perma deleted due to bugs lol.

 

[startle]

Everything you've said is probably true... But I have to say, that if it were me and the vollems were that hard to come by on my shard and they meant a lot to me - then I'd have stable'd them... Sorry for your loss, Darkman - and you have every right to be pissed - but you should have stabled them... I think I have one on Pac if you can manage to get somebody here to get it...

 

[Gedgerez Tesherd]

Sorry to hear of your loss. I have played since beta & found many bizarre instancing of circumstancing leading to the start of server down message & morning shard relaunch. Let me share with you one story I tucked away for safe keeping.

It began as such, on a misty night, around the beginning days of The Lost Lands discovery, and conflicts were arising all around the lands. Players of all type, sharpened their weapons & filled their reagent pounch, then suited up to gather in death zone's to their liking. My favorite area of conflict outside of the head on head guild battles in dungeons were usually graveyards, with a touch of seldom moongate interaction over weekends. We stood at the ready, weapons gripped tightly & spells precasted & waiting. All was in the clear, not a person budged, then all of the sudden came roaring through, 6 war decorated heros came galloping through on their Nightmares. They began thrashing through the huddles of players with their flamestrikes, & beasts at their side. I was just as confused as the next person, as to why the fighting & mayhem began 1 minute before the Server Down message occurred. Over 30+ people stood frozen in stillness, dying with bitter remorse & confusion. As the server message finally came, everyone silently spoke of the outcome, "what was to happen next?"

The story came to an end with a tragic outcome. The 6 players that started PKing 1 minute before Server Down, ended up with 30+ murder counts each after the shard came up. Everyone banded together & wiped out all 6 reds putting each one into statloss after Server Up, and each one of those players were never heard from again. Even 1 minute prior to the message alerted everyone of the possible risks involved with Server Wars. Nobody since then started the Server War carnage before that message struck unless they came on their already formed red character.

Involved Risks to avoid moments before Server Down:
Buying from vendors
Clicking & dragging any item
Demolishing, Placing, or Resizing a home
Fighting spawn clusters (champ spawns, & other massively gathered/lured areas)
Pets Not Stabled
Pvp Interaction
Releasing & Locking down any item in a house

I have seen countless occasions involving the above list that ended badly with unwanted murder counts, loss of housing housing, loss of items, and lost pets over the years. Moral of the story is if your not willing to accept the consequences involved with 'risk' then you should avoid the situation. I never trusted risking ANYTHING tied to the moments before Server Down after witnessing the story above so long ago.

 

[Bobar]

Sorry for your loss. A lot of people will be aware that you should stable pets at server down as it can cause problems It was only on June 9th last that the following post was made -

http://stratics.com/community/threads/beware-just-lost-4-vollems.300439/

Same scenario - same problem - same result.

Seems to me we should all take the server going down warning much more seriously - Me included.

 

[Picus at the office]

Tough luck, everyone knows that you turn "it" off before the server goes down.

 

[Lady Storm]

Sorry for his loss???? He was Stupid. Period.
Look you knew it was close to server and saw the warning.. this was not your first time in this move. You deserved the loss if you didn't stable them.
You knew there was a bug with server down... that was the first mistake.
Not stableing your animals is your fault. Not the GM's.
That warning is put there fir a reason... from day 1 it meant you needed to secure things and log in a safe spot.
Not stand there and keep going.
I am not trying to be mean but you knew better and ignored a reasonable rule.

 

[startle]

Lady Storm is known to be more direct than diplomatic, but she is right... Besides, she has pet issues to deal with - and sore toes...

 

[The Zog historian]

Sorry for his loss???? He was Stupid. Period.
Look you knew it was close to server and saw the warning.. this was not your first time in this move. You deserved the loss if you didn't stable them.
You knew there was a bug with server down... that was the first mistake.
Not stableing your animals is your fault. Not the GM's.
That warning is put there fir a reason... from day 1 it meant you needed to secure things and log in a safe spot.
Not stand there and keep going.
I am not trying to be mean but you knew better and ignored a reasonable rule.

Storm, he and others relied on the truthfulness of the Publish 81 notes. If this were anytime before, well, having pets out near server maintenance is not wise.

However, Publish 81 gave us a promised pet safeguard that turned out to be untrue, at least with vollems, and the Devs should admit that.

Pets will now be “rescued” if a server reverts to a backup during which the pet was out in the world
During server maintenance, these pets will be teleported to a safe location
This prevents the pets from being killed, or losing loyalty and going wild
When their owners log in:
The rescued pets will teleport to the player, if the player has control slots available
Otherwise, the pets will go to the owner’s stables for later retrieval

Darkman doesn't appear to have seen the thread from four weeks ago, nor should he have to keep up with UHall for the latest bug reports/problems, when the publish notes should have instead read:

So we're telling you that pets will now be “rescued” if a server reverts to a backup during which the pet was out in the world
Officially, after the backup is restored, you can log in and find your pets were teleported to a safe location, or put in the stables
But this is only what we're telling you. In practice, yeah, you're going to lose your pets

What if AoS debuted with an insurance bug, through which he lost rare items? Would you be so critical, telling him he shouldn't have taken things out of the bank that he wasn't willing to lose?

Those who've played a very long time may remember a test client from 1999, which we were encouraged to try. It was responsible for forcing an instant res and destroying my 5x (nearly 7x) mage, back when a 4x character was godly and Eval Int took months to GM (because gain slowed as more people were using a skill). The particular Dev never did apologize to me, but they quietly removed the instant res option.

 

[The Zog historian]

The story came to an end with a tragic outcome. The 6 players that started PKing 1 minute before Server Down, ended up with 30+ murder counts each after the shard came up. Everyone banded together & wiped out all 6 reds putting each one into statloss after Server Up, and each one of those players were never heard from again. Even 1 minute prior to the message alerted everyone of the possible risks involved with Server Wars. Nobody since then started the Server War carnage before that message struck unless they came on their already formed red character.

That's quite a story. It's like when Sonoma crashed one night and didn't need the next morning's maintenance. Apparently a big bunch got into a fight in Deceit and racked up so many counts on their blue mains that they deleted the chars and started over.

I had awakened a little after the server down message would have gone out. Thinking to get in some action before going to work, and remembering that Sonoma already had maintenance several hours before, I asked a friend via ICQ if the message had gone out. He was pretty sure but didn't see the message, only hearing it from others that Sonoma was going down. Fortunately I decided not to attack first, and the only valuables I lost were a vanq mace and teleport ring.

I've already said my peace about server down and pets.

 

[MalagAste]

Sorry for your loss... I only have this to say.... it's getting old hearing folk get upset over losing pets. Something needs to be done.

I am VERY glad that I have yet to even break one of my vollems out..... they still remain as they were when I got them. Likely I'll never use them should this sort of thing continue... sure don't give me much desire to ever use them.

 

[Faeryl]

However, Publish 81 gave us a promised pet safeguard that turned out to be untrue, at least with vollems, and the Devs should admit that.

You know, there's one thing here that makes me wonder. The OP specifically said he logged out at server down, yes? Well, that little blurb you posted:

Pets will now be “rescued” if a server reverts to a backup during which the pet was out in the world
During server maintenance, these pets will be teleported to a safe location
This prevents the pets from being killed, or losing loyalty and going wild
When their owners log in:
The rescued pets will teleport to the player, if the player has control slots available
Otherwise, the pets will go to the owner’s stables for later retrieval

I do believe that server down and a server revert are two separate things. Perhaps the pet will be "rescued" if the shard crashes, but not if, as the OP admitted doing, the pet is left out in the open AFTER the normal server maintenance message is announced.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Not wanting to move is a ridiculous excuse for not doing the smart thing and stabling them.

It truly sux but you kinda deserved what you got imo.

Does everyone left playing the game seriously need a babysitter?

 

[The Zog historian]

You know, there's one thing here that makes me wonder. The OP specifically said he logged out at server down, yes? Well, that little blurb you posted:

I do believe that server down and a server revert are two separate things. Perhaps the pet will be "rescued" if the shard crashes, but not if, as the OP admitted doing, the pet is left out in the open AFTER the normal server maintenance message is announced.

"Revert" is not just when a shard crashes. As part of daily maintenance, a server always reverts to the point of last backup. The OP had logged out while the server was making the backup but was still online, and according to Publish 81, his pets should have been rescued. So I say again: the Devs should admit this.

You are correct about the two terms being different, but not in the way you intended. "Server down" is the time-honored term for when the server stops saving, because it's making a backup. At one point in 1999 it was up to 90 minutes. "Revert" is the other part of maintenance.

 

[Aroma]

Only failure is he should have consulted an old experienced Tamer, before attempted training.
1. Never leave pets training unattended.
2. Always stable/stall pets before logging out/server down.
3. Never TRUST game mechanics to perform these task.

Follow these and you will keep your pets forever.

 

[S_S]

Only failure is he should have consulted an old experienced Tamer, before attempted training.
1. Never leave pets training unattended.
2. Always stable/stall pets before logging out/server down.
3. Never TRUST game mechanics to perform these task.

Follow these and you will keep your pets forever.

/signed

 

[The Zog historian]

Only failure is he should have consulted an old experienced Tamer, before attempted training.
1. Never leave pets training unattended.
2. Always stable/stall pets before logging out/server down.
3. Never TRUST game mechanics to perform these task.

Follow these and you will keep your pets forever.

One more time: I'm disgusted that part of a publish specifically protected pets in the OP's circumstances, and it's not working. If we can't trust it, fine, but the Devs should admit so.

By your logic, I shouldn't trust item insurance or the blessed property, or that my houses will auto-refresh. Every so often someone posts that a boat decayed much faster than it should have.

 

[Faeryl]

One more time: I'm disgusted that part of a publish specifically protected pets in the OP's circumstances, and it's not working. If we can't trust it, fine, but the Devs should admit so.

By your logic, I shouldn't trust item insurance or the blessed property, or that my houses will auto-refresh. Every so often someone posts that a boat decayed much faster than it should have.

Perhaps your right in response to my earlier post, but I still believe there's a different between a crash and revert, and a scheduled maintenance.

And besides that, the pets are supposed to be protected in the event the shard unexpectedly goes down and doesn't come back up for an extended period, not because the tamer simply couldn't be bothered to take two seconds to stable them when he KNEW the shard was going down. If the vollems are that hard to find and were important, he should have put them away or logged in a safe spot. Simple as that.

 

[The Zog historian]

Perhaps your right in response to my earlier post, but I still believe there's a different between a crash and revert, and a scheduled maintenance.

And besides that, the pets are supposed to be protected in the event the shard unexpectedly goes down and doesn't come back up for an extended period, not because the tamer simply couldn't be bothered to take two seconds to stable them when he KNEW the shard was going down. If the vollems are that hard to find and were important, he should have put them away or logged in a safe spot. Simple as that.

There is no "perhaps." I am correct. The use of "revert" encompasses the two circumstances under which a shard will be restored, i.e. reverted, to its last backup: after any crash, and every day as part of normal maintenance.

Therefore, the alleged protection for pets is not just for when a shard crashes, but when someone's playing and the server goes down. What if someone loses track of time? Doesn't the game get that fun for you that suddenly an hour's flown by? With Publish 81, watching the clock should not matter anymore. We were told that pets now had protection, which is a promise we can't rely on.

You have yet to address the point that I brought up with someone else. What about auto-refreshed houses? If the game mechanics don't work, would you say that the person shouldn't have counted on game mechanics and routinely checked the house, and kept valuable items in the bank anyway? If someone's ship decayed after just a few days, would you tell the person it should have been kept dry-docked?

What if AoS debuted with an insurance bug, through which he lost rare items? Would you be so critical, telling him he shouldn't have taken things out of the bank that he wasn't willing to lose?

 

[MalagAste]

Well I'll say this too first off.... I haven't even used my grizzled mare statue because the last one I had vanished into thin air and has never been seen since. So I don't feel like losing another so haven't used it.

Secondly you reap what you sow... Hanging around at server down with rare expensive pets is just asking for trouble.

 

[The Zog historian]

Well I'll say this too first off.... I haven't even used my grizzled mare statue because the last one I had vanished into thin air and has never been seen since. So I don't feel like losing another so haven't used it.

Secondly you reap what you sow... Hanging around at server down with rare expensive pets is just asking for trouble.

OK, so you're saying that players should not be surprised if things disappear or are lost, despite officially posted game mechanics and publish notes. Gotcha. You'd have been a perfect, as in useless, GM.

 

[MalagAste]

Nope saying if your are AFK scripting and server goes down cause you fell asleep at the wheel or whatever then it shouldn't be a surprise to you that things go bad. That's what I'm saying. Don't do things you shouldn't and it probably wouldn't happen especially since there have been at least 10 others posting about losing Vollems in the last 6 months or so.

Again this is why mine are still in their original form and I've never actually claimed any to use because people keep posting about losing them. Don't care to risk it. Not saying it's right or wrong or that it ought not be fixed just saying that had to know it has been happening since people have been going on and on about it for months crying over it... so therefore should have known better.

 

[The Zog historian]

Nope saying if your are AFK scripting and server goes down cause you fell asleep at the wheel or whatever then it shouldn't be a surprise to you that things go bad. That's what I'm saying. Don't do things you shouldn't and it probably wouldn't happen especially since there have been at least 10 others posting about losing Vollems in the last 6 months or so.

Again this is why mine are still in their original form and I've never actually claimed any to use because people keep posting about losing them. Don't care to risk it. Not saying it's right or wrong or that it ought not be fixed just saying that had to know it has been happening since people have been going on and on about it for months crying over it... so therefore should have known better.

Don't be so dense. He wasn't "AFK scripting." He was playing within the established rules of the game. Why is it his fault that the game mechanics are not working as promised?

Some people don't keep up with UHall, and others don't notice all the threads. I remembered just the one thread that began a month ago, and a search of Stratics doesn't show anything about "at least 10 others posting about losing Vollems in the last 6 months or so." So tell us why missing one thread out of many on an unofficial forum is his fault, and when it should be the Devs' responsibility to put up a warning in the patch window? It would be nothing new. They've used that for many years to notify players about houses, skills, items and so on.

If you're too afraid to lose yours, then do you know what is their worth? Less than the empty promise in Publish 81.

Pets will now be “rescued” if a server reverts to a backup during which the pet was out in the world
During server maintenance, these pets will be teleported to a safe location
This prevents the pets from being killed, or losing loyalty and going wild
When their owners log in:
The rescued pets will teleport to the player, if the player has control slots available
Otherwise, the pets will go to the owner’s stables for later retrieval

Server maintenance -- you know, the daily thing.

 

[Viper09]

Sucks that we should see another person losing a pet due to the servers going down. Regardless of what the patch notes say, however, people still need to be cautious instead of playing a game of chance with the servers. If one sees the announcement that the servers are about to go down for maintenance and you have a special pet out, don't risk it, stable it. Same with moving stuff around in a house. I would rather play it safe than end up here sporting a new tale of server down woes.

 

[Wenchkin]

Just because something appears in the publish notes saying it's "fixed" does not mean you should throw caution to the wind with some rare pets and test the code out though. The devs can do their best, but sometimes it takes a few attempts to patch up a problem. Auto stable is not reliable, it never has been.

If you re-log after maintenance and pets are in a fight without you healing them, you'll be lucky they aren't dead.So I can't understand why anyone would train a pet all day and night as the OP says, then stay logged in as the server goes down. Even if the code had been reliable, one or both pets could have been dead with a loss of skill. That seems quite a strange risk to take when you're actually training them up. Why risk a dead pet when you could just take a quick break? If you've been attended training those pets all day and night, surely you need a break. Doesn't make sense.

I kinda wonder if there's more to this story than the OP is saying.

Wenchy

 

[The Zog historian]

Just because something appears in the publish notes saying it's "fixed" does not mean you should throw caution to the wind with some rare pets and test the code out though. The devs can do their best, but sometimes it takes a few attempts to patch up a problem. Auto stable is not reliable, it never has been.

If you re-log after maintenance and pets are in a fight without you healing them, you'll be lucky they aren't dead.So I can't understand why anyone would train a pet all day and night as the OP says, then stay logged in as the server goes down. Even if the code had been reliable, one or both pets could have been dead with a loss of skill. That seems quite a strange risk to take when you're actually training them up. Why risk a dead pet when you could just take a quick break? If you've been attended training those pets all day and night, surely you need a break. Doesn't make sense.

I kinda wonder if there's more to this story than the OP is saying.

That's a nice back-handed way of saying he isn't telling the truth. Between him and the other person, I have no need to doubt his veracity. Pet skill loss on death is not that much, particularly at lower levels. You actually lose more by logging 10-15 minutes before server down, instead of getting a few gains but losing a tenth across skills.

Look, the Devs gave us a fix, it seems to have worked for the most part, but they still won't admit a bug in their code, and the other person ran into the typically useless GM. Having related my own story from 1999, you can see I'm personally experienced in a Dev refusing to take responsibility.

 

[Wenchkin]

That's a nice back-handed way of saying he isn't telling the truth. Between him and the other person, I have no need to doubt his veracity. Pet skill loss on death is not that much, particularly at lower levels. You actually lose more by logging 10-15 minutes before server down, instead of getting a few gains but losing a tenth across skills.

If the OPs pets were nearly trained they were at the level where those gains were slowing down. I'm not fussed if pets have max skill or lose some on death, but I still wouldn't let a pet get killed because I just wanted those extra few gains. That's silly when I can just stable them, make a coffee and have a stretch. If I'd been playing all day and night I'd take the break for my own health too. I wouldn't rely on auto stable or server maintenance code when I could easily hop to the stables and be certain my pets were safe. If my pets vanished then I'm having to spend time both selecting AND retraining that pet. Vollems are too rare to take that chance with.

Look, the Devs gave us a fix, it seems to have worked for the most part, but they still won't admit a bug in their code, and the other person ran into the typically useless GM. Having related my own story from 1999, you can see I'm personally experienced in a Dev refusing to take responsibility.

It would be great if the devs said "yes, it's still bugged" and took responsibility then fixed the code. But we have stables now, we should try to use them when we can, and only use the auto stable code when it's an emergency or the shard goes pop. It doesn't take long to swing past the stables and log out there after a session. I don't think I could ever trust a fix to this particular bit of code, I tend to auto pilot back to the stables if I see the server messages.

Wenchy

 

[The Zog historian]

If the OPs pets were nearly trained they were at the level where those gains were slowing down. I'm not fussed if pets have max skill or lose some on death, but I still wouldn't let a pet get killed because I just wanted those extra few gains. That's silly when I can just stable them, make a coffee and have a stretch. If I'd been playing all day and night I'd take the break for my own health too. I wouldn't rely on auto stable or server maintenance code when I could easily hop to the stables and be certain my pets were safe. If my pets vanished then I'm having to spend time both selecting AND retraining that pet. Vollems are too rare to take that chance with.

He said they were "almost finished." Gains will slow but wouldn't exactly have been .1 an hour, and maybe he was having fun. All that is still irrelevant. The game didn't work as designed. The game didn't work as we were told through official channels.

"So i start training em spend all day and night" is his own damn business. In fact, that mattered so little to me that I didn't even notice his marathon play until you pointed it out.

It would be great if the devs said "yes, it's still bugged" and took responsibility then fixed the code. But we have stables now, we should try to use them when we can, and only use the auto stable code when it's an emergency or the shard goes pop. It doesn't take long to swing past the stables and log out there after a session. I don't think I could ever trust a fix to this particular bit of code, I tend to auto pilot back to the stables if I see the server messages.

By your logic, if AoS had been released with an item insurance bug, or in 2005 when there was an exploit (never acknowledged but I saw it) to uninsure other players' items, and the Devs supposed fixed things but didn't, then you'd have said, "But we have bank boxes and houses, we should try to use them when we can, and only use item insurance on things we don't want to risk losing."

When will you start replying in "My boat decayed" threads to tell the people that they should have kept them dry-docked?

It's absurd that you and others blame a person who had played perfectly within the rules, even criticizing how and for how long he plays. You should be more concerned that part of the game isn't working, instead of being a Dev apologist.

 

[Wenchkin]

"So i start training em spend all day and night" is his own damn business. In fact, that mattered so little to me that I didn't even notice his marathon play until you pointed it out.

Of course it's his business how long he plays. I just said that if I'd played many hours of the day, I'd be glad of a break during maintenance. I don't say that because I'm some busy body in everyone else's business. I say it because those RSI type injuries are best avoided by taking regular breaks.

By your logic, if AoS had been released with an item insurance bug, or in 2005 when there was an exploit (never acknowledged but I saw it) to uninsure other players' items, and the Devs supposed fixed things but didn't, then you'd have said, "But we have bank boxes and houses, we should try to use them when we can, and only use item insurance on things we don't want to risk losing."

Let's stick to the issue at hand and not try dragging this thread elsewhere. We have stabling which we know is secure and this code which has just been patched. I will continue to recommend that players stable pets and avoid this code until the lost pet pet reports stop and I'm satisfied it has been successfully fixed. Because it is the safest way to protect pets at this time and I don't want anyone losing their pets.

Wenchy

 

[The Zog historian]

Of course it's his business how long he plays. I just said that if I'd played many hours of the day, I'd be glad of a break during maintenance. I don't say that because I'm some busy body in everyone else's business. I say it because those RSI type injuries are best avoided by taking regular breaks.

If it's his business, then why do you keep bringing it up? He doesn't need your concern about his physical condition. But he does need others' concern that there's a bad failure of game mechanics.

Let's stick to the issue at hand and not try dragging this thread elsewhere. We have stabling which we know is secure and this code which has just been patched. I will continue to recommend that players stable pets and avoid this code until the lost pet pet reports stop and I'm satisfied it has been successfully fixed. Because it is the safest way to protect pets at this time and I don't want anyone losing their pets.

It is in fact quite germane. Don't accuse me of a tangent when you can't address my points, and when you have created a tangent by talking about how long he was playing. So would you have said to players who lost items by bugs and exploits, "We have bank boxes and houses which we know are secure"? It's the same principle, relying on promised game functionality but getting screwed by buggy code.

"this code which has just been patched" -- strictly speaking, it was new code, so it was published, not patched, not to mention that it was server-side rather than client-side. Putting that aside, the new code simply isn't working. I'll take the last thing you said as admitting there's a bug, which the Devs have failed to acknowledge. The playerbase neither asked for nor needs you "to recommend" anything. It's the OP and Endrik whose unfortunate experiences showed there's a bad bug. You nor I had any idea there was a problem until they posted.

It's absurd that you and others blame a person who had played perfectly within the rules, even criticizing how and for how long he plays. You should be more concerned that part of the game isn't working, instead of being a Dev apologist.

 

[pumpkin_escobar]

Only failure is he should have consulted an old experienced Tamer, before attempted training.
1. Never leave pets training unattended.
2. Always stable/stall pets before logging out/server down.
3. Never TRUST game mechanics to perform these task.

Follow these and you will keep your pets forever.

At the least this game should replace lost pets

 

[Wenchkin]

If it's his business, then why do you keep bringing it up? He doesn't need your concern about his physical condition. But he does need others' concern that there's a bad failure of game mechanics.

I mentioned it once, then you made a comment about what I posted, so I replied to you. Try to keep up.

It is in fact quite germane. Don't accuse me of a tangent when you can't address my points, and when you have created a tangent by talking about how long he was playing. So would you have said to players who lost items by bugs and exploits, "We have bank boxes and houses which we know are secure"? It's the same principle, relying on promised game functionality but getting screwed by buggy code.

I am not following you round a whole host of comparable situations just to feed your desire for attention. You don't like my reply? Tough.

Wenchy

 

[The Zog historian]

I mentioned it once, then you made a comment about what I posted, so I replied to you. Try to keep up.

Your tactic of insulting me and goading me into a ban is not going to work.

"If I'd been playing all day and night I'd take the break for my own health too." You were the one who brought up his long play. It is irrelevant, it is a slur on his playstyle, and it is a tangent when you falsely and erroneously accused me of making one.

Try to keep up with your own words next time.

I am not following you round a whole host of comparable situations just to feed your desire for attention. You don't like my reply? Tough.

Same old thing. You can't refute a thing I say, but I will fish your every last syllable. If applying your principle of "blame the player" to other situations is too challenging for you to comprehend, I cannot feel the least bit sorry.

Until you refute this, I will keep repeating it. It's absurd that you and others blame a person who had played perfectly within the rules, even criticizing how and for how long he plays. You should be more concerned that part of the game isn't working, instead of being a Dev apologist.

 

[Wenchkin]

Your tactic of insulting me and goading me into a ban is not going to work.

I refused to play along with you, nothing more. I know you don't like it, but I don't see any constructive discussion coming from replying to you in greater detail. We've been down this path before. I've said what I wanted to say. You have continued to try drawing the conversation out further and it's not going to happen.

Same old thing. You can't refute a thing I say, but I will fish your every last syllable. If applying your principle of "blame the player" to other situations is too challenging for you to comprehend, I cannot feel the least bit sorry.

Until you refute this, I will keep repeating it.

You can repeat and fish all you like. You won't catch much though.

Wenchy

 

[The Zog historian]

I refused to play along with you, nothing more. I know you don't like it, but I don't see any constructive discussion coming from replying to you in greater detail. We've been down this path before. I've said what I wanted to say. You have continued to try drawing the conversation out further and it's not going to happen.

You can repeat and fish all you like. You won't catch much though.

If you don't want to "play along," then don't say a thing, particularly when you should know I fisk anyone's last syllable. It's nothing personal (unless you wish to make it so) that I do not tolerate people's post with illogical arguments, or applying higher standards to others. It's really very simple. You got caught irrelevantly criticizing Darkman's playstyle, when you'd rather have everyone believe I brought things on a tangent.

I have been discussing the issue constructively, with far more compassion and logic than you have. The Devs failed in their promise, and it wasn't the guy's fault in the least, but you insist on being a Dev apologist, and you refuse to accept the absurdity of your position when it's applied to other situations. We're talking about Darkman, Endrik and others being massively let down by game mechanics that the Devs won't even acknowledge aren't working. So do you in fact have anything constructive to add, or are you just goading me?

 

[S_S]

Fact: He know the server was going down.
Fact: He made the CHOICE to not stable them.
Fact: He lost them.
Fact: GM's do NOT replace lost or stolen items. (99.9% of the time)
The game is not perfect, Live and Learn.

 

[The Zog historian]

Fact: He know the server was going down.
Fact: He made the CHOICE to not stable them.
Fact: He lost them.
Fact: GM's do NOT replace lost or stolen items. (99.9% of the time)
The game is not perfect, Live and Learn.

Fact: Publish 81 told us that pets would be teleported to a safe spot, or stabled. Prior to Publish 81, I'd have said losing pets was unfortunate but should be expected.
Fact: Players are supposed to rely on game mechanics, but it was a flaw in game mechanics that caused them to disappear.
Fact: GMs have been inept since 1997, so don't presume any competence on their part. Today they don't know the difference between a paragon and the paralyze spell, on top of a predominant laziness.

So when this or any other game screws up, we're just supposed to accept it? No way.

 

[S_S]

Fact: Publish 81 told us that pets would be teleported to a safe spot, or stabled. Prior to Publish 81, I'd have said losing pets was unfortunate but should be expected.
Fact: Players are supposed to rely on game mechanics, but it was a flaw in game mechanics that caused them to disappear.
Fact: GMs have been inept since 1997, so don't presume any competence on their part. Today they don't know the difference between a paragon and the paralyze spell, on top of a predominant laziness.

So when this or any other game screws up, we're just supposed to accept it? No way.

Fact (IMO at least!): You care more about trying to bash the DEV's and GM's then you care about this player losing pets.

 

[The Zog historian]

Fact (IMO at least!): You care more about trying to bash the DEV's and GM's then you care about this player losing pets.

You can stop with your fiction, thank you very much. "IMO" or not, that does not entitle you to put words in my mouth.

 

[Wenchkin]

If you don't want to "play along," then don't say a thing, particularly when you should know I fisk anyone's last syllable. It's nothing personal (unless you wish to make it so) that I do not tolerate people's post with illogical arguments, or applying higher standards to others. It's really very simple. You got caught irrelevantly criticizing Darkman's playstyle, when you'd rather have everyone believe I brought things on a tangent.

Sorry, but you don't set the rules for how people interact with you on the forums.

I have been discussing the issue constructively, with far more compassion and logic than you have. The Devs failed in their promise, and it wasn't the guy's fault in the least, but you insist on being a Dev apologist, and you refuse to accept the absurdity of your position when it's applied to other situations. We're talking about Darkman, Endrik and others being massively let down by game mechanics that the Devs won't even acknowledge aren't working. So do you in fact have anything constructive to add, or are you just goading me?

You may be constructive elsewhere, but certainly not in the continuing of this particular discussion, which you swiftly derailed by yourself. You are still apparently frustrated that I'm not diligently replying to you as you instruct. Once someone starts repeating bits of their post to try getting a reply, the discussion is certainly not constructive. It's finished.

Wenchy

 

[The Zog historian]

Sorry, but you don't set the rules for how people interact with you on the forums.

You may be constructive elsewhere, but certainly not in the continuing of this particular discussion, which you swiftly derailed by yourself. You are still apparently frustrated that I'm not diligently replying to you as you instruct. Once someone starts repeating bits of their post to try getting a reply, the discussion is certainly not constructive. It's finished.

You're almost correct. You're trying to finish it by not answering. There's nothing I've "derailed" since I have been the one keeping it on topic, instead of your silliness in bringing up the irrelevancy of how long the OP had played. There's no frustration on my part, since I expect your replies to boil down to "I don't have to answer that." You, on the other hand, are frustrated that I won't let you get away with it. Just admit you're trying to goad me. We both know what you're trying to do.

Nobody's talking about "rules" or "requirements" for interaction. All I want is a logical argument to why you're blaming someone for losing his pets, though he had played within the rules of the game and had the promise of game mechanics, and why you're such a Dev apologist.

Pets will now be “rescued” if a server reverts to a backup during which the pet was out in the world​

During server maintenance, these pets will be teleported to a safe location​

This prevents the pets from being killed, or losing loyalty and going wild​

When their owners log in:​

The rescued pets will teleport to the player, if the player has control slots available​

Otherwise, the pets will go to the owner’s stables for later retrieval​

 

[Shamus Turlough]

Zog, please step off. You are coming across as obsessive and harassing and this is not even your thread. Back off please. This is a nice request.

 

[The Zog historian]

And all along I've been very nice. This thread or elsewhere, I simply ask for a logical counterpoint, and there's absolutely nothing personal, except by someone who's goaded me in the past. Of course it's not my thread, but having been personally screwed by game mechanics that didn't work, having known the two guys' pain at losing valuable items, I want to see the Devs acknowledge this. I want a logical answer as to why it's their fault. Please tell me if that's unreasonable.

I have four vollems saved from the SA upgrades, which I never got around to releasing, never having read before that they're pretty good. Now I'm more than a little hesitant. Does anyone else realize that if a shard crashes and reverts, then vollems could be lost as if during regular maintenance?

The only way to get bugs fixed is to be vocal. How else did we get pet healing restored to the way it was, except by hammering the issue?

 

[Gospel]

Wow, Stratics staff at its finest. Nevermind Lady Storm's useless troll post that is CLEARLY against the ROC, lets all gang up on the only dude making sense.

Wenchkin, the reason he is "repeating bits of his post" is because they are valid arguments and you are failing to address them. That's debate fail on your part, not his. Perhaps you should consider running for public office.

These threads get better every year, as more and more of the good mods leave, and the remaining ones continue to convince themselves they've got all the answers and the rules dont apply to them or their friends.

"Safe Travels"

 

[kelmo]

What part of the server down message was not understood?

 

[Shakkara]

Since when is it acceptable that a server going down in an online game may permanently destroy supposedly indestructable items?

Players shouldn't be the ones working around a game's bugs, the devs should put work into fixing them instead.

 

[Shamus Turlough]

Since when is it acceptable that a server going down in an online game may permanently destroy supposedly indestructable items?

Players shouldn't be the ones working around a game's bugs, the devs should put work into fixing them instead.

That is a completely unfair statement. The current dev team is devoting hours upon days upon weeks entirely to fixing bugs. There was even an entire publish devoted to nothing but bug fixes a while back. They are fixing bugs in code that no one who wrote it is around to help. What part of that is not enough?

Wow, Stratics staff at its finest. ......

These threads get better every year, as more and more of the good mods leave, and the remaining ones continue to convince themselves they've got all the answers and the rules dont apply to them or their friends.

"Safe Travels"

The only mods posting in this thread have been around for many years. Sorry we aren't good enough for your personal taste. I think we do pretty good for unpaid volunteer labor...

 

[The Zog historian]

But kelmo, that brings us back to square one. What of the Publish 81 protection for pets? If it's not working, I'd appreciate the Devs telling us, so that other players don't depend on it and lose their pets. There should be a warning on the patch page: "The Publish 81 protection for pets does not for vollems, as we have discovered. We apologize and are currently working on a fix. In the meantime, please stable vollems before server maintenance to ensure they will not be lost."

As I was telling someone, having mulled over what could be wrong, I wonder if the new code doesn't see vollems as pets. Maybe I'll get my hands on squirrels in crystals to see how those are treated, but I'm rarely awake before daily maintenance.