Upcoming "PvP-In-Trammel Toggle" As Replacement to Factions?

[Tina Small]

Earlier this week, Hoffs was kind enough to report that Mesanna stopped by several times on Siege to ask people to start sending her feedback via e-mail regarding a replacement for factions. Apparently she will be visiting other shards at some point with the same request.

I've lifted from Hoffs' post on the Siege forum the only details it sounds like Mesanna has publicly given out about what's under consideration:

a) She/The Devs view the whole faction system as being too broken to fix. They are in favour of going back to something like the Chaos/Order system.

b) This is not Siege-specific. She is visiting various shards and any changes would be across UO; there will be no changes/systems especially for this shard.

c) The proposed new system would not be guild-specific along the current lines; each person could opt-in as they wish so that some members of a guild may be in the system and others not.

d) They can't use the old Chaos/Order name for the new system. They are looking for alternative names.

e) She would like to get feedback from people about this whole issue and what should be in the new system.

Because she said the new system would not be guild-specific and would use an individual character opt-in, it seems to me that the new system is actually just a "PvP toggle." Without knowing anything more than that really, it doesn't even sound to me like this new arrangement is even going to be complex enough to warrant calling it a "system."

With that being said, here are some questions I've come up with so far to potentially send to Mesanna:

• How will you put your character into this arrangement?
• How will you take characters out of this arrangement and how long will it take to leave? How long will it take to re-join?
• How will you know who else is enrolled in this new arrangement?
• Will there be any kind of structure to this arrangement so that individual characters are perceived as being part of a team? If yes, what does that structure look like? I'm especially puzzled on this because of the statement that they can't call this Order/Chaos and are looking for a different name.
• If there is no structure to this arrangement and you fight any and all other members of this arrangement on an individual basis, what incentives will people have for participating in it other than presumably just being able to PvP anywhere in the game?
• Does this mean there's absolutely no hope of ever again seeing a MyUO type of search feature on the UO website?
• Will it still be possible to set up guilds to war each other once this arrangement is added? If yes, will membership in this new arrangement affect how "guild war" kills are counted, i.e., which arrangement/system will take precedence in counting a kill that involves two characters in opposing guilds who also happen to belong to this arrangement?
• Will "young" characters be able to join this arrangement?
• If there are any "teams" to this arrangement, will all your characters on an account on the same shard have to join the same side or stay neutral, or can you have characters on the same account on different "teams" on the same shard?
• Will there be anything similar to faction strongholds or bases, or just sign-up/quit stone(s)?
• While you're in this arrangement, can other characters in this arrangement heal or rez your character or your pet? Can your guildmates or alliance mates heal or rez your character or pet?
• Can you steal from a character who also belongs to this arrangement while both are outside of Felucca?
• Will there be anything like the faction 20-minute skill loss period after your character dies to another character that is in this arrangement?
• Will a character under this arrangement be able to participate in the Trammel and Siege town election system, including taking advantage of town buffs?
• Are all kills made by members of this arrangement of other members of this arrangement considered "legal" and not reportable as murders?
• Will you be able to use traps outside Felucca to kill/injure other members of this arrangement? Will you be able to remove such traps?
• Will this new arrangement add any new kinds of craftables?
• What will be the consequences for non-members of this arrangement who assist in kills or kill-attempts made by members of this arrangement?
• Will there be any kind of ranking system, shard-wide leaders of any type, voting periods, etc.?
• Will there be a leaderboard of any sort to keep track of who has made the most kills?
• Will joining this arrangement grant you any sort of special abilities or access to special items?
• Are there plans for the designers/developers and the EMs to create special events built around this arrangement?
• What will happen to the faction strongholds, sigil posts and town stones?
• Will there be any kind of replacement for faction vendors, especially of the reagent and bottle type?
• Will the team make sure that NPC pricing in faction towns is not left at an artificially high or low level after the faction system is disabled?
• What will happen to existing faction war horses? Will there be any point in trying to keep them if you won't be able to actually ride them anymore or be able to rez them with bandages without vet skill?
• Will faction silver continue to have a use? What about faction trap deeds, faction trap removal kits, faction robes, faction-hued clothing and weapons, faction artifacts, faction consumables? Will these get stuck in containers and backpacks or on paperdolls and mannequins after the faction system is turned off?

What else do you think we should be asking Mesanna about this new arrangement at this point? At this point, I feel like I don't know enough about what she's proposing to even make suggestions. All I have are questions. More information on what is being planned would go a long, long way towards being able to actually provide feedback, in my opinion. All I can do at this point, really, is just send her a long laundry list of questions. If we can keep this discussion civil , it would sure be nice if Kyronix, Mesanna, or Bleak could pop in and start providing more info and answering some questions and give us more explanation for why they want to go in this direction versus something else that sounds more organized.

 

[Orgional Farimir]

If the do this PvP toggle switch thing I pray that it is only for Tram and they keep Fel the way it is.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I would not call that a PvP "toggle." I think most people think of a PvP toggle as a system similar to that which existed in Star Wars Galaxies and I'm told existed in Everquest, where a player could challenge you and you could fight on a spontaneous, ad hoc basis.

Based on the language you've reported Hoff's reported Mesanna as using, it sounds to me more like an individual "sign-up" as opposed to a guild or alliance "sign-up."

I would urge the team to seek feedback not only on the mechanics but on the system. The fact that Factions' fiction made a certain amount of sense (power vacuum in Fel; fight to control it politically while gangs fight to control it in effect) was one of the reasons it survived so long despite adverse circumstances.

Assuming I'm right, I would hate to see this post start rumors; look at Farimir's reply, for example. We now already have in the air the suggestion that PvP in Fel would be altered to suit a "toggle" system. Something which strikes me as extremely unlikely.

-Galen's player

 

[Tina Small]

I would not call that a PvP "toggle." I think most people think of a PvP toggle as a system similar to that which existed in Star Wars Galaxies and I'm told existed in Everquest, where a player could challenge you and you could fight on a spontaneous, ad hoc basis.

Based on the language you've reported Hoff's reported Mesanna as using, it sounds to me more like an individual "sign-up" as opposed to a guild or alliance "sign-up."

I would urge the team to seek feedback not only on the mechanics but on the system. The fact that Factions' fiction made a certain amount of sense (power vacuum in Fel; fight to control it politically while gangs fight to control it in effect) was one of the reasons it survived so long despite adverse circumstances.

Assuming I'm right, I would hate to see this post start rumors; look at Farimir's reply, for example. We now already have in the air the suggestion that PvP in Fel would be altered to suit a "toggle" system. Something which strikes me as extremely unlikely.

-Galen's player

I'm not trying to start rumors, Galen. Just trying to toss this out for discussion and hoping someone from the dev team might find it worthwhile to provide a little more information to give people something to work with if they decide to send Mesanna their suggestions. I'm sorry that the term "PvP toggle" doesn't sound right to you. I simply don't know what else to call this "arrangement" that characters would opt into. We've been hearing for about a year now, I think, that factions will be replaced by Order/Chaos. But Mesanna says they can't call it that now. And then she says that you can't join whatever it is as a guild, you do it individually. So, what does that mean? Order/Chaos sounded like it was just a mechanism to be able to fight anywhere on the shard, but you joined it as a guild and you could make/get shields you couldn't otherwise get. Is that all this is going to amount to, with just some new fiction to explain it?

More information on what the new thing, whatever it is, would be helpful. It would also be nice to know what's going to happen to all the faction-related structures and items after factions is turned off and whether there will be any kind of replacement for things like the faction vendors. I'm sure that a lot of people, whether or not they ever participated in factions, have come to rely on those after all these years as a way to buy cheap reagents and bottles. And some people are mighty attached to their faction war horses and/or like being able to rez their own mount without the need for veterinary skill.

Whether or not we like the answers to some of the questions around this situation, I think it would be good to start seeing some information and answers, instead of just plodding along not knowing what's happening or just giving up and leaving because you're tired of waiting "for the other shoe to drop." I don't know nearly enough about what's being proposed to even start to provide constructive feedback or suggestions. And if the team really does want feedback at this point to make sure whatever they're going to do has some sort of broad-based appeal, I would think they would welcome the opportunity to have some public discussion about it. If, instead, they want to do everything behind closed doors and just make it look like they want feedback by telling us to mail in suggestions, then I have my doubts that whatever the outcome turns out to be will be welcomed, or at least accepted, any better than the last publish was.

 

[Winker]

If the do this PvP toggle switch thing I pray that it is only for Tram and they keep Fel the way it is.

I would close every account down i had if they did this to Fel

 

[Tina Small]

I changed the title of the thread to refer to a "PvP-in-Trammel Toggle," rather than just "PvP Toggle."

 

[Orgional Farimir]

I changed the title of the thread to refer to a "PvP-in-Trammel Toggle," rather than just "PvP Toggle."

Sorry didn't want to "hijack" the thread, but I really wasn't sure if it was just tram or Fel too. Why would she be asking a all Fel shard if it wouldn't apply to Fel.

 

[Viper09]

I have to agree with Galen, what you have just reported does not sound at all like a PvP toggle of any type, rather an individual sign up for a faction-like system. I know you're not wanting to start rumors, however the mention of a pvp-toggle in this thread is enough to get people talking as if it were going to happen (since we all know that some people only rread the title of the thread before responding).

 

[Petra Fyde]

We might be more productively focused in trying to help find a name for this new system.
Not Order/Chaos

 

[Victim of Siege]

We might be more productively focused in trying to help find a name for this new system.
Not Order/Chaos

I vote the "Zombies vs. Aliens" system

 

[Petra Fyde]

hehe I was thinking maybe of something from Heraldry. Maybe Lions and Eagles?

 

[Hoffs]

Let me just jump in here and say that Mesanna came back to the shard to assure everyone that nothing is set in stone, they are just looking for some feedback on the whole thing. And given all the other things that they have on their wish-list this year, don't expect it any time soon.

And as Galen was saying, I think that that "PvP toggle" is perhaps a bit of a misnomer, it is more a "faction toggle" (or rather whatever might actually replace factions). It means that instead of the community being divided into faction and non-faction guilds, the two could mix together. So you may be in a guild and some of the members could be a part of the "faction" system and be attackable anywhere by other such people. There would presumably have to be some sort of flag that would prevent non-faction types from performing beneficial acts upon anyone engaged in faction combat, but otherwise you may be able to interact normally with your faction guildmates. But Fel would still be Fel in that anyone could potentially be attacked there just as it is now.

 

[Tina Small]

We might be more productively focused in trying to help find a name for this new system.
Not Order/Chaos

What "system"??? The details that have been provided so far are almost meaningless, Petra. How do you name something when you know nothing about it except that the devs don't want to call it Order/Chaos and you opt into it individually? What else is in this "system" that you can base a name on? Is it going to be part of the town loyalty system? Is it two-sided? Is it 8-sided? Or is it just a big free-for-all?

I don't know why I even tried to start a discussion. UO has just become a waste of time and money anymore. It seems like we never get solid details about anything anymore until the bulk of the programming is already done and the small team that we have left doesn't have the ability to make any significant changes in reaction to constructive feedback. Here we have an opportunity to actually provide some feedback before stuff is programmed and you're basically shutting it down. Does that mean the programming is already done and this is going to go live with the next publish and all that's needed at this point is a name for it? If so, why doesn't Mesanna say so instead of saying things so vaguely as to make people think that there's actually any hope that the team is going to listen to our feedback this time around before it's too late?

I'm pretty disgusted right now. But I suppose it doesn't matter. I'm sure the people who are "in the know" about all of this, whether they are dev team members, EMs, or secret focus group participants know everything and the rest of us are just the mushrooms who kick in the dollars to help keep this whole mess afloat. What we think about stuff, ideas we have, and support we could provide just don't count anymore.

 

[Viper09]

secret people in the know? Where did that come from? Think you're getting too worked up here. No one is trying to shut down this discussion, rather proposed that we find a better name than a pvp-toggle. As Hoff said too, this isn't coming out any time soon, at all. This is only an idea stage.

 

[Lady Storm]

Sorry Petra I was thinking that sounds more footballish then pvp....
And its pretty hard to go back to chaos and order considering we got the head of chaos on the order throne...
Demonic Order v Knights of the Crown might be better. but what's in a name if the players are not in it...
Mesanna was asking for ideas... not trouble.. so don't start some with the threats of closing down your accounts if yadda yadda happens...
You now have a voice in what is done you bunch of ninnys............. USE IT!
don't make me pull out the diapers and formula for a bunch of whinie baby's who want their own way or old toy back...
I would have preferred Chaos and Order back but I do see where it might not float right now given our populations on some shards.
Factions was a bad idea right out of the damn gate and I told that to the Dev when we test ran it.... but that's is hind sight now.
So
Get your thinking caps on and stop thinking for yourself and think it out as if it was for EVERYONE.

 

[Hoffs]

And let me jump in again and say that the impression I got from Mesanna was that nothing had been decided as of yet. She was just garnering feedback and specifically asked for those with opinions to contact her and I thought I made that quite clear on both my posts on the Siege and Factions forum.

She said that she would prefer to go back to something like Chaos/Order of old, although it would need a new name if they did that. And I don't see why any of this would really have an affect on people or game systems other than those who are already in the faction system - it is just an alternative to that whole thing.

I think any discussion on this may be best made in my Faction forum thread post.

 

[popps]

I do not think that an individual "opt-in" toggle to PvP in Trammel is a good idea at all.

Actually, I think is a VERY but VERY bad idea.

Why ?

Because of BUGS.

Since the existance of software with it started showing up software bugs.

Now imagine, lots of players NOT WANTING to PvP, not prepared to PvP in trammel at all being attacked and killed and perhaps even looted if their gear was not insured or they did not have gold in bank and so forth because of nasty bugs showing up.

Result ?

More upset players quitting Ultima Online thus really seriously risking the end of the show for everyone because the player base becomes too thin to keep going with.

No, sorry, this is too high a risk to my liking.

At least with Factions, a player not wanting to PvP just would not join them althougether but with a toggle I am too afraid that because of bugs nasty things might happen hurting UO rather than helping it.

So no thanks, I am all against an "opt-in" individual toggle for PvP in Trammel.

 

[Tina Small]

Sorry Petra I was thinking that sounds more footballish then pvp....
And its pretty hard to go back to chaos and order considering we got the head of chaos on the order throne...
Demonic Order v Knights of the Crown might be better. but what's in a name if the players are not in it...
Mesanna was asking for ideas... not trouble.. so don't start some with the threats of closing down your accounts if yadda yadda happens...
You now have a voice in what is done you bunch of ninnys............. USE IT!
don't make me pull out the diapers and formula for a bunch of whinie baby's who want their own way or old toy back...
I would have preferred Chaos and Order back but I do see where it might not float right now given our populations on some shards.
Factions was a bad idea right out of the damn gate and I told that to the Dev when we test ran it.... but that's is hind sight now.
So
Get your thinking caps on and stop thinking for yourself and think it out as if it was for EVERYONE.

Oh just stop with the "listen to your mother" nonsense, please. Who said I was going to close accounts over this? And keep the diapers for someone else. I have been very civil in this thread. I haven't cried or whined about losing stuff or not getting my way or getting an old toy back. Just stop with that BS.

And no, we can't give ideas about what we want to see the system look like. According to Petra and according to Viper, whom I believe doesn't even play UO anymore, all we can do at this point is suggest a name for something about which we know next to nothing.

It's just ludicrous anymore how bad the communication about important things in UO has gotten to be. Absolutely ludicrous. How Mesanna or anyone else expects people to want to continue to support the dev team when announcements about something as important as PvP are made in such a way is really mind-boggling. You just can't go out and try to spread the word ACCURATELY through little discussions with pockets of people here and there and then expect someone like Petra to patrol the resulting chaotic results and buffer you from the "bad stuff" and the "ugly stuff" that people say. It's just darned unprofessional.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Mesanna has undertaken a fact finding mission. At current time even she isn't 'in the know', so how the heck can anyone else be?
How about we cut out the conspiracy theories and just wait and see?

 

[Tina Small]

And let me jump in again and say that the impression I got from Mesanna was that nothing had been decided as of yet. She was just garnering feedback and specifically asked for those with opinions to contact her and I thought I made that quite clear on both my posts on the Siege and Factions forum.

She said that she would prefer to go back to something like Chaos/Order of old, although it would need a new name if they did that. And I don't see why any of this would really have an affect on people or game systems other than those who are already in the faction system - it is just an alternative to that whole thing.

I think any discussion on this may be best made in my Faction forum thread post.

How do you give her an opinion when she has provided so little information?

And yes, it will affect other people than those who are already in the faction system, Hoffs. Order and Chaos extended into Trammel, so something similar to it that comes back to Trammel affects everyone who plays there, whether they are in the system or not. Just for one example, your guildmate is in the system and you're not. You go out hunting together and all of a sudden he's attacked out of nowhere by an "orange." What does that do to your hunting expedition? Is he in skill-loss? Does he need to go seek revenge? Are more people coming and there's now no hope of continuing what you thought you were going to do because your guildmate is occupied with something else now?

There are also a lot of people who used to be in factions who've dropped out of it. There are also plenty of people who have quit playing because of what happened with factions over the years. Just because they aren't in factions now doesn't mean they aren't interested in hearing what's coming along to replace it.

 

[Tina Small]

Mesanna has undertaken a fact finding mission. At current time even she isn't 'in the know', so how the heck can anyone else be?
How about we cut out the conspiracy theories and just wait and see?

How does she get facts from people when she doesn't give them enough information to even form an opinion and talk back to her intelligently?? How is that so difficult for people to understand? She needs to give MORE information. That's all. Why is that concept so difficult for people to grasp?

 

[Tina Small]

Petra, just lock the thread. This is so stupid. If you don't want to bother patrolling this discussion today because you think it's going to get ugly, lock it. Do the maintenance on Stratics and just shut things down for the weekend so you and the mods can go enjoy your weekend.

 

[Viper09]

You're silly Tina. All I said was avoid using the term pvp-toggle. That was ALL I said. Didn't say we can't discuss anything at all. I think popps' is evidence enough for avoiding this term. What I can say, however, is that you need to calm down.

 

[Hoffs]

I might argue that anyone who is afraid of being attacked by another faction person in Trammel should not be a part of the system. But who said anything about all this extending to Trammel anyway? Nobody, certainly not Mesanna, because presumably there ARE no firm plans at the moment.

But if you feel that way, email Mesanna and make it clear that you don't think any new system should undermine the sanctity of the Trammel facet. These are presumably the things they are wanting feedback about.

 

[popps]

Petra, just lock the thread. This is so stupid. If you don't want to bother patrolling this discussion today because you think it's going to get ugly, lock it. Do the maintenance on Stratics and just shut things down for the weekend so you and the mods can go enjoy your weekend.

Locking the thread is not the solution, IMHO.

"What if" the developers' choice for game change is NOT what the players would want ??

It would only result in more subscriptions lost and the risk for shutting down Ultima Online for good...

Better discuss whether the risk for more players' getting upset is too high to risk such a change then let the developers just do whatever change they may like whether non PvPers may like it or not.......

 

[Petra Fyde]

I just think, take a step back. This thing is still in the 'brain storming' stage. You can't get solid details, because there are none yet.
Mesanna's not yet looking for 'opinions', she's looking for ideas.
My mom would have said 'don't cross your bridges until you come to them'.

 

[atinycow]

I don't know why I even tried to start a discussion. UO has just become a waste of time and money anymore. It seems like we never get solid details about anything anymore until the bulk of the programming is already done and the small team that we have left doesn't have the ability to make any significant changes in reaction to constructive feedback.

They were pretty good about changing some things early in the Publish 81 discussion. Then they rammed Refinement down the throats of an unwilling playerbase and burned a lot of credibility.

 

[popps]

They were pretty good about changing some things early in the Publish 81 discussion. Then they rammed Refinement down the throats of an unwilling playerbase and burned a lot of credibility.

Well, on the other hand, not necessarily the developers should always listen to players for their changes to the game...

I mean, there are changes and changes....

If a change would be a major one, one that could potentially put the whole game knock out, well then yes, I think players' fears, wills, opinions, desires should be heard well and listened to.

But for other changes which would not be that big of a threat to the game (like refinements for example...) then I do not think the developers should necessarily have to inform the players of their intentions to change the game one way or the other.

I like seeing some surprise added to the game with publishes !

Besides, I am actually in favour for the refinements addition........

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

The name of the new system should reflect whatever the fiction is. As, for that matter, should the mechanics.

I do not think anything ever again will be as beautifully and horrifyingly all-encompassing Factions was at its best and worst. I suspect whatever comes out will be based more on straight-up fighting; direct confrontation PvP. The constant callbacks to Order/Chaos is yet another indication of such.

The most-obvious thing that suggests itself is something town-based. Fanatics form gangs and go to attack folks from the other towns. If such a system is implemented, and has rewards attached (aside from the most-obvious: loyalty points), then there should also be some mechanism to get the rewards from other means, just have it take longer. (Fanatical devotion to one's home city has its rewards; promoting unity has its rewards also but they are longer-term. If the rewards are artifacts, for example, both should be brittle, but the non-loyalty combat ones should have, say, 15% higher durability.)

Such a system could be both Fel and Tram.

Such a system could even allow Factions to continue in Felucca, and who knows, maybe with enough tweaks the system may well become viable again in the future.

Either way, for the new system, the fiction should come first.

I don't have the impression they've thought of the fiction yet. That needs to come first.

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

The name of the new system should reflect whatever the fiction is. As, for that matter, should the mechanics.

I do not think anything ever again will be as beautifully and horrifyingly all-encompassing Factions was at its best and worst. I suspect whatever comes out will be based more on straight-up fighting; direct confrontation PvP. The constant callbacks to Order/Chaos is yet another indication of such.

The most-obvious thing that suggests itself is something town-based. Fanatics form gangs and go to attack folks from the other towns. If such a system is implemented, and has rewards attached (aside from the most-obvious: loyalty points), then there should also be some mechanism to get the rewards from other means, just have it take longer. (Fanatical devotion to one's home city has its rewards; promoting unity has its rewards also but they are longer-term. If the rewards are artifacts, for example, both should be brittle, but the non-loyalty combat ones should have, say, 15% higher durability.)

Such a system could be both Fel and Tram.

Such a system could even allow Factions to continue in Felucca, and who knows, maybe with enough tweaks the system may well become viable again in the future.

Either way, for the new system, the fiction should come first.

I don't have the impression they've thought of the fiction yet. That needs to come first.

-Galen's player

Additional point: If whatever they do involves Trammel then they need to find some way of making it not disrupt EM events.

 

[kelmo]

Well heroes and villains has already been used (really like that though)... basically it boils down to good vs evil though. *thinks*

 

[Merus]

What about something like Order of the Serpent and Order of the Knights Crest? (symbols on the order and chaos shields)

 

[kelmo]

“And this is the forbidden truth, the unspeakable taboo - that evil is not always repellent but frequently attractive; that it has the power to make of us not simply victims, as nature and accident do, but active accomplices.”
― Joyce Carol Oates

 

[Winter]

Well heroes and villains has already been used (really like that though)... basically it boils down to good vs evil though. *thinks*

Here's a good reason NOT to use Heroes and Villans

 

[Victim of Siege]

Malice and Intent...

 

[Winter]

How about "Wars of Sosaria"?

That is Lord British versus Lord Blackthorne and their followers, in the world of Sosaria. It would be easy to theme both sides and is consistent with UO history.

 

[kelmo]

I love that song!

 

[kelmo]

See we are losing some history... or at least things change. None of the faction history makes sense anymore.

 

[Winter]

See we are losing some history... or at least things change. None of the faction history makes sense anymore.

I agree... that is why I'm suggesting going back to the roots, sticking with existing history. Mondain, Lord Blackthorne, Minax (though that was done in Factions), the Avatar, Warriors of Destiny... all in UO's history.

 

[kelmo]

British is gone... Blackthorne is a good guy now? Minax? I dunno.

 

[Shakkara]

How do you give her an opinion when she has provided so little information?

This is not about giving an opinion on something that has been written, we're no where near that stage yet.

From what I gather from your excellent initial post, they're in the very first stage of the development. They analyzed what is wrong with the current systems and came to the conclusion that they will not try to fix it, but instead build a new system. That's one of the few things that they have decided on at this point. The rest, they don't know, because they are in the first stage. They're kicking ideas around. They likely haven't even had a brainstorm session about the exact implementation of this system. They're gathering ideas and material and all that first, and then they're going to draft a rough concept with goals that they want the new system to meet and the general direction things will go in. If they're still interested in player involvement, they'll give us more concrete information and ask our feedback, then they go back to their lair and draft up a design document. Then they come out with very detailled information and ask feedback again. And then they're going to begin build it. Then there's testing, and adjustments are made and polishing is done. We're at least a year down the road before we're at that stage.

So again, the reason they provided so little info is because there is no info. There is no design document or anything put on paper yet.

And no, we can't give ideas about what we want to see the system look like.

Why not? We can write an entire design doc with all the details we want in there! Don't you see what's happening? They're asking us to contribute to the design process. Not too surprised, as they don't have any hardcore game/systems designer on the team anymore. Luckily there are some in the audience though.

The canvas is blank, and they're asking us to draw scetches on it!

 

[Lord Frodo]

1. Why is Mesanna even doing this on SP? There should be a notice on the log-in page to UO and UO.com directing people where to go to talk about this. Do not leave it up to the player base to spread the word. Totally unsat.
2. There are 7 posts total today on UOStratics and now we are asked to decide the fate of UO, NO TY.
3. This type of thread will and must be MODed with a very heavy hand. Keep the attacks out of it.
4. If this is going to be allowed in Tram then all of UO needs to go to a Tram Set and use this as PvP.
5. This will hurt EM events if allowed in Tram.
6. One person has already stated that if they put a toggle in Fel that they will quit, well guess what, how many people do you think will quit if they do it to Tram? How many people quit because of Fel only or when Tram opened up left Fel and never looked back. Keep it in Fel only or make all lands the same.
7. UO is already on thin ice and the Devs need everyone in this talk or you may not have a UO to do this in.

Just my $.02 and sorry if you do not like it but we are all allowed to state our wishes.

 

[CovenantX]

As long as players that are "Toggled" pvp, can't move through other players that are also toggled for pvp. (push-through of fel needs to remain) not sure how hard it would be, but the Arena is set up like that, it works fine.

I do wonder why factions is believed to be broken beyond repair though?

1) Cap faction kill points at 100 per player, no longer any issues with kill points being duped/exploited.
Maybe kill-points, since rank is no longer required, can be used like Life Force, just as it is on Siege/Mugen perhaps?

2) Change the Decay of faction artifacts to only decay during playing time, instead of the items starting to decay the moment you purchase them, and 4 weeks later they poof regardless if you play or not.
(With DCI no longer being able to Over-cap to gain benefit, these items aren't nearly as useful as they once were, the devalue of non-faction artifacts would be minimal)

3) Allow Factions to be freely attack-able by other enemy faction players in ALL facets.

4) Players that attack & kill their own faction members share stat-loss timer with the player killed.
A penalty in-place for those who kill their own faction members to help an opposing faction. there use to be KP-penalties to this if I remember correctly.


It would be nice to have an actual reason for owning a town via factions though, other then to place horse vendors. but I guess it wouldn't matter if O/C is going to replace factions altogether.

 

[kelmo]

Not sure where this is a Trammel issue came from. Speculation I suppose.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Not sure where this is a Trammel issue came from. Speculation I suppose.

Gee I wounder where I got the idea from? "Upcoming "PvP-In-Trammel Toggle" As Replacement to Factions?" How about it is the Title to this thread.

 

[atinycow]

(Fanatical devotion to one's home city has its rewards; promoting unity has its rewards also but they are longer-term. If the rewards are artifacts, for example, both should be brittle, but the non-loyalty combat ones should have, say, 15% higher durability.)

Please no more temporary artifacts that we're expected to grind to replace for all eternity. They keep trying that and it keeps failing. Nobody wanted moonbound faction gear, nobody wanted ephemeral artifacts, nobody wanted that ephemeral junk from Despise, etc. etc. etc.

 

[kelmo]

Again... much speculation.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Please no more temporary artifacts that we're expected to grind to replace for all eternity. They keep trying that and it keeps failing. Nobody wanted moonbound faction gear, nobody wanted ephemeral artifacts, nobody wanted that ephemeral junk from Despise, etc. etc. etc.

Brittle does not mean ephemeral.

Brittle means unable to be PoFed. Some say it also wears out a little faster but my own experiences are mixed.

Mana phasing orbs are brittle yet also are in wide use.

Imbued items are also unable to be PoFed, and yet are still in wide use.

So if it makes you feel better, replace "brittle" with non-PoF-able.

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Not sure where this is a Trammel issue came from. Speculation I suppose.

Hmm.

You're right; I'd focused on the toggle and didn't realize that the post she quoted didn't seem to mention Tram either!

Wow.

-Galen's player

 

[cazador]

Why not something simple like town vs town..a towns uprising against the crown will give you good vs evil the north vs south aura and that's what alot seem to want..a "reason" to fight not a fight or don't an actual solid reason to strap up and combatant each other.

Bucs den is refusing to pay taxes to the crown and lord blackthorne is upset over it and has started a war..