[Archery] ABC or Necro or Both?

[Gb8719]

Hey all. Currently beginning to work on a character to play with my brother who is also currently working on leveling and gearing up a Sampire. I would like to play a class to a consistent supply of heavy damage from a distance as well as possibly throwing the occasional heal. I really don't like gargoyles, so the option of a Sammy or a throwing out of the question for me. Our goal is to be able to handle most Peerless and most Champ spawns.
Someone recommended an ABC archer so I've been doing a lot of reading on them.
Another person recommended taking Necro to help with wraith form [I'm fairly new to this so unfamiliar how Necro's function] for mana maintenance.

As of right now, I'm shooting for:
100 Archery [120 with headdress]
120 Tactics
120 Anatomy
100 Healing [don't want to have to rely on enhanced bandages]
70 Chiv
90 Meditation [resist soulstoned]

What are your thoughts on this build? Is this optimal for a good deal of support damage and lasting a long time during a fight? Should I maybe try to add Necro/SS into the mix in place of something like Meditation?
Still considering whether to go Elf or stay Human for the JoaT buff. Guess it would depend on which direction I take the spec.

Thanks!

 

[Podolak]

Changes:

Minimum 84 chiv (there are plenty of posts as to why this is a minimum)

Ditch med, pickup spirit speak. If you are human you don't need necro. If you are an elf you need 20 necro to maintain wraith form. Use jewelry to help you get into wraith form. So a possible exact template?

100 Archery (120 w/HH)
120 Tact
120 Anat
120 Bushido
100 Healing
84 Chiv
60 SS

That leaves 16 points, put them where you want.

You can stand behind the samp and heal him if you are fighting something that he isn't leeching enough life from. You'll have great damage out put and between HML on weapon and wraith form you should be able to AI pretty consistently.

Stay human for JOAT buff is my opinion but its easier to make an elf suit.

 

[Gb8719]

Changes:

Minimum 84 chiv (there are plenty of posts as to why this is a minimum)

Ditch med, pickup spirit speak. If you are human you don't need necro. If you are an elf you need 20 necro to maintain wraith form. Use jewelry to help you get into wraith form. So a possible exact template?

100 Archery (120 w/HH)
120 Tact
120 Anat
120 Bushido
100 Healing
84 Chiv
60 SS

That leaves 16 points, put them where you want.

You can stand behind the samp and heal him if you are fighting something that he isn't leeching enough life from. You'll have great damage out put and between HML on weapon and wraith form you should be able to AI pretty consistently.

Stay human for JOAT buff is my opinion but its easier to make an elf suit.

Thanks for the awesome advice.
That's an interesting concept to just take Spirit Speak and rely on the JoaT for a minimum of 20 necro. Is there any extra benefit to put the 16 points somewhere else rather than putting them into Necro [to get it even higher] or to even Spirit Speak?
If I go the Elf route, which I'd really like to do because the suits are much easier/cheaper to make, is it worth putting the 20 points into Necro and taking a few out of Spirit Speak rather than having Necro mandatory on jewelry?

Thanks again for the help. Very much appreciated.

 

[Podolak]

You are going to want 60 as a minimum to spirit speak so I wouldn't take it from there. If you go elf you are lacking 4 points so you could always toss it on jewelry. After HCI/DCI/DI/Stat etc a bracelet can only have a little room left and a touch of +skill often fits nicely.

Another way to make up that +4 points is by using a Despicable Quiver. It gives you +5 archery. If you use that you end up with 21 points extra which is enough for necro.

 

[Gb8719]

Also, related but unrelated:

How important would it be to have 120 tactics on this character and on a Sampire? I've seen some templates with less than 120 [100 or 115] there but not sure if that was because 120 Tactics scrolls are crazy expensive or if it's for efficiency.

 

[Podolak]

It depends on if you are trying to maximize damage. You can do just fine with 100 Tactics. 90 Tactics is the minimum for special moves. At 100 tactics there is a DI bonus and of course 120 is the cap. I like to shoot for 120 tactics but it won't break you. However, if you are deciding against 120 tactics and 100 anatomy or 120 anatomy and 100 tactics I would take the 120 tactics/100 anatomy. Tactics gives more of a damage bonus.

 

[Gb8719]

I've been reading as much as I can and it seems that this Necro/SS is not a very common addition to the ABC Archer template. A lot of other people seem to be opting for Resist or for Meditation. Although Resist seems like a waste of points [since I'll be having a tank and should not be taking that much direct damage], do you feel that going Wraith form is better for mana mitigation than 60 points spent in Meditation?

Sorry for the questions, but I've never played or explored the Necro abilities before.

 

[Podolak]

There are some bosses that have small mana pools and that is where the 60 Meditation would serve you better but for a great many you will see more benefit in leeching mana than in regenerating it.

On the mage side of things for example when I PvM with my mystic mage I soulstone 120 spirit speak on and fight in wraith form, I end up with a lot more mana back than if I were relying on meditation and suite MR.

PvP you definitely would take meditation over SS though you probably wouldn't fit meditation into a PvP template. As you guest it, Resist Spells is only worthwhile if you are being targeted. One thing that is a waste on an archer is Vampiric Embrace, they made it so you leech a lot less life (not that you are trying to leech life but anyway) than you do with melee weapons (or throwing weapons for now).

 

[Gb8719]

There are some bosses that have small mana pools and that is where the 60 Meditation would serve you better but for a great many you will see more benefit in leeching mana than in regenerating it.

On the mage side of things for example when I PvM with my mystic mage I soulstone 120 spirit speak on and fight in wraith form, I end up with a lot more mana back than if I were relying on meditation and suite MR.

PvP you definitely would take meditation over SS though you probably wouldn't fit meditation into a PvP template. As you guest it, Resist Spells is only worthwhile if you are being targeted. One thing that is a waste on an archer is Vampiric Embrace, they made it so you leech a lot less life (not that you are trying to leech life but anyway) than you do with melee weapons (or throwing weapons for now).

PvP would be out of the question on this guy. Working on an assassin character for that as soon as this guy is done.

I guess you're right about most fights it being more worthwhile to use Mana Leech. I guess if I really wanted I could soulstone Meditation and use it on fights when the bosses didn't have large mana pools.

Still throwing around the idea of a Spellweaving Archer instead of a pure ABC Archer with Wraith form. Some people swear by it but I don't think it will have to single target damage that an ABC archer will be able to dish out.

 

[Podolak]

I like Spellweaving archer for PvP, going with 60 spellweaving. For PvM you just don't have the SDI or mana pool to be as effective. If you are human you can still use JOAT spellweaving for renewal which is useful if being targeted. It seems that might not be as necessary for how you plan on playing.

 

[Obsidian]

With the upcoming adjustment to composite bow damage and speed, I think I would go wraith archer. Your friend is the tank; you are a ranged attacker and healer. Sounds like a powerful duo. Try this template:

120 Archery
120 Tactics
120 Anatomy
100 Bushido
100 Healing
60 Chivalry
60 SS
40 Necro

You may need to raise Chiv by either jewelry or by lowering tactics and/or anatomy. AI is your primary attack.

 

[Gb8719]

With the upcoming adjustment to composite bow damage and speed, I think I would go wraith archer. Your friend is the tank; you are a ranged attacker and healer. Sounds like a powerful duo. Try this template:

120 Archery
120 Tactics
120 Anatomy
100 Bushido
100 Healing
60 Chivalry
60 SS
40 Necro

You may need to raise Chiv by either jewelry or by lowering tactics and/or anatomy. AI is your primary attack.

I haven't read too much about Composite bow changes, to be honest.
I like the sounds of this template. I'm going to leave Archery at 100 [hunter's headdress] so that should help me save room for Chivalry. I was shooting for the 84 that Podolak recommended so I'll try to get another 4 on some Jewelry, which shouldn't be too difficult.

Wish I read this prior to purchasing a 120 Bushido scroll for 5 mil and then spending the time to raise it up already...
What would be more beneficial: having anatomy at 120 or having Bushido at 120? I've always read to take Bushido to the max for optimal damage. I would really, really like to justify the huge expense with the scroll and the massive amount of time spent raising Bushido...
Definitely going to take tactics to 120. Ate that scroll already too and that one cost me almost double that. Maybe I'll consider leaving it at 100 and using jewelry to bump it up.

 

[Podolak]

Here is a post on some benefits of Bushido:

I could be wrong but you don't need 120 Bushido to get the max damage bonus. I believe you can initiate perfection at 50 and that will give you the 100% damage bonus assuming you reach max perfection. Skill level does affect luck though. To reach MAX perfection luck you need max Bushido.

My PvM archer has 80 bushido so 120 Archery + 80 Bushido = 200 points towards the first tear of weapons special LMC.

 

[Gb8719]

Here is a post on some benefits of Bushido:

I could be wrong but you don't need 120 Bushido to get the max damage bonus. I believe you can initiate perfection at 50 and that will give you the 100% damage bonus assuming you reach max perfection. Skill level does affect luck though. To reach MAX perfection luck you need max Bushido.

My PvM archer has 80 bushido so 120 Archery + 80 Bushido = 200 points towards the first tear of weapons special LMC.

Having max perfection luck might be worth having Bushido to the max then if we're fighting some high end content for high end loot. If what I've read is true, the luck check will go into affect if I loot the corpse and not my brother... correct? That would mean that to get the benefit of the higher luck I'd need to trigger the corpse first?

 

[Podolak]

I am fuzzy on the luck check trigger hopefully someone who has better info on this can chime in. If you both run 120 Bushido I suppose it would not matter. If he runs 120 Bushido and you can get him to trigger the luck check then you technically wouldn't need it.

 

[Gb8719]

He won't be doing 120 Bushido. Doesn't fit with his Sampire build. Trying to save the points to make sure he'll be able to run with 120 Parry on most encounters [except when he might need to swap it for resist or healing].

 

[Obsidian]

I think perfection scales from 50 to 100. After 100, you can hit perfection with fewer swings but the damage bonus does not go any higher. This is why I use 100 bush on several templates. You do have increased damage output with Tactics and Anatomy to 120 which is why I proposed the template I did.

 

[Podolak]

I think perfection scales from 50 to 100. After 100, you can hit perfection with fewer swings but the damage bonus does not go any higher. This is why I use 100 bush on several templates. You do have increased damage output with Tactics and Anatomy to 120 which is why I proposed the template I did.

Because this is something I was always curious about, to hit max damage bonus from perfection you need 100 bushido?

 

[Gb8719]

So I started playing around with this build and realized that every time I went into wraith form that I was lowering my karma and that my chiv spells [EoO, etc.] were dependant on having high karma to work properly.

Is it worth giving up a benefit to extra damage from those Chivalry abilities by being in Wraith form and having low Karma?

 

[Podolak]

You only lose karma when you enter wraith form. You don't lose karma for maintaining it. How much karma do you have? Once you hit 20k there is no added benefit. I usually easily maintain 24-27k karma on my chiv characters so casting wraith from is rarely noticed.

 

[Gb8719]

I probably should have asked this before I started accumulating pieces of gear...

If I'm going for the template without meditation/focus and relying on Wraith form and Mana Leach on my bows... do I need strictly meddable armor? My suit right now is either all "mage armor" or is leather pieces. Is this a waste of time to look for pieces like this? I'm also an Elf that does not have JoaT so don't have the passive 20 med and 20 focus.

 

[Podolak]

My wraith form dexxer suits are non-medable. My garg suite has a piece of plate, my elf suite is woodland, etc.

 

[Obsidian]

You do not need medable armor for this character. You will leech regardless of your armor. In fact, with the proposed LMC benefits of metal armor, I could see many of us using an Artie of choice for the headgear and 5 pieces of imbued/enhanced metal for the 15 LMC bonus.

 

[Gb8719]

Good points. Kinda wish I read more into the patch notes before I bought myself a few pieces of higher end meddable gear.
Oh well. At least I have a stealthing character that they'll work nicely on.

I think I'm gonna roll with these for now and then evaluate how it's looking with the new gear setup.

So I guess a piece of armor like Jackal's Collar might actually be useful then, right?

 

[NuSair]

So I guess a piece of armor like Jackal's Collar might actually be useful then, right?

no

 

[Kelly Daze]

So if you are human and use JOAT for wraith form, why not raise Spirit Speak to 100 with the extra 40 skill points? What way you will leech 20% of your damage that you do to the target.

 

[Obsidian]

So if you are human and use JOAT for wraith form, why not raise Spirit Speak to 100 with the extra 40 skill points? What way you will leech 20% of your damage that you do to the target.

That would work as a human if you are only using wraith form for mana leech. Most wraith throwers (or archers) use 40 Necro for casting curse weapon. This gives you 50% of your damage output back as hit points. The duration of curse weapon scales with your spirit speak.

 

[RaistlinNowhere]

I like Spellweaving archer for PvP, going with 60 spellweaving. For PvM you just don't have the SDI or mana pool to be as effective. If you are human you can still use JOAT spellweaving for renewal which is useful if being targeted. It seems that might not be as necessary for how you plan on playing.

Just to say about spellweaving :

• It doesnt use SDI, it use the focus cristal from circles as SDI+
• It doesnt use any reg, so no need of LRC
• Use wraith form for any mana pool problem ( and HML of course on weapon).
• Can invoke monster to aid you.
• Can switch to WoD at 20% so you can max your damage
• Can be useful for renewal or resurrect after dead
• And as far as i know, you dont need mage weapon for casting Spellweaving spells

For all these reasons, i prefer spellweaving archers than ABC right now

Template im training now (using +15 skill in jewelry) :

120 archery
120 tactics
120 anatomy
120 spellweaving
90 heal
85 chival
60 Spirit Speak
20 necro

And of course, ill run a 5 studded armor parts for the 55% lmc total i could have .

 

[Podolak]

It doesnt use SDI, it use the focus cristal from circles as SDI

I was under the impression the SDI property helped with WoD? Is this not true? I thought greater item based SDI = more WoD damage? Can anyone verify its been a while since I've used WoD.

Use wraith form for any mana pool problem ( and HSL of course on weapon).

I presume you mean HML not HSL

Can invoke monster to aid you.

This is why I go with 60, all you need for pixies!

Can be useful for renewal or resurrect after dead

Absolutely though if all you care about is Gift of Renewal JOAT will be sufficient.

And as far as i know, you dont need mage weapon for casting Spellweaving spells

This is accurate.

For all these reasons, i prefer spellweaving archers than ABC right now

Template im training now (using +15 skill in jewelry) :

120 archery
120 tactics
120 anatomy
120 spellweaving
90 heal
85 chival
60 Spirit Speak
20 necro

The biggest issue I see with the above template is you don't have enough skill points in combat related skills to hit the first or second tier of weapon special mana reduction. That is why I usually run like archer and 80 bushido or ninjitsu to at least hit 2oo points and get the first bonus. Also these are just my comments and everyone is welcome to build their characters as they wish. Spellweaving archers have always been a fascination of mine even though I don't currently play one!

 

[RaistlinNowhere]

haha i was editing some mistakes i did on my post, so yes i meant HML instead of HSL, and no WoD dont use SDI, i asked it at the spellcasters forum.

About the mana i run with these stats :

• 120 life
• 170 stam
• 100 mana

About the mana, i thought about it already, but i think with wraith form and HML i wont have any problem

This is a char that ill use for events, or high end hunting like peers and those. It doesnt suit champions or hunting like that.

 

[Podolak]

I am VERY curious to know how you do with mana consumption. I recently made a 55 LMC suit for my archer and was considering fitting in 120 SW so I could WoD. The SDI was my holdup so if that is a non-issue then I may be in business. My template would be:

100 Arch (+15 from ring and +5 from quiver)
120 Tact
120 Anat
100 Healing
80 Bushido
20 Necro
60 SS
120 SW

Suit has these stats:

150 HP
181 Stam
103 Int

And is studded for 55 LMC.

 

[Obsidian]

I thought SDI affected WOD damage too. I am not sure the info you received was correct.

 

[RaistlinNowhere]

ok , have read my post at spellcaster forum again , and i have to apologice , SDI affect Wod, is slayer properties that doesnt.
But the SDI isnt a problem at all, only need to change my jewelry at the 20% and change my bow with a Scrapper and that would do around 50 SDI for finishing the mob ( again is a char that i will use for events, peerless, doom etc, not champion spawns )

50 SDI = 3 x 50 = 150 extra damage for WoD ( much more you would do with the bow for finishing the mob)

With all these ill hit around 450-500 damage per Wod, so far better than using a bow, even with AI. ( and mana wont be an issue because of wraith form at this moment)

 

[NuSair]

Hmmm, depends on your swing speed vs WoD casting time.

Example- on like Melisande I find that I do more damage chaining flame strike than I do casting WoD because of the casting time.

 

[krilov]

YE Nusair got the point; u might be able to do more dmg with an ending wod but keep in mind :
a) wod does chaos dmg...and works good on mobs with low res in general. Let's condider a noob expl. like hiryus; they got a really low cold res...but an avarage 80+ fr; if your wod dmg will hit as fire dmg...u'll have wasted lots of mana for nothing or almost so.
b) even if u got fc/fcr cap, casting a wod is still quite slow...and according to your stami/ ssi and bow-type shouldn't be an easy win for WOD at all.
But, ofc the better circle u get, stronger the sw-spells will be and then, soon or later as an archer u will run a bit far/hiding/bandaging, healing...well,here precasting a wod...sounds usefull. true...the point is...have u got enough mana and enough time to do it? i hope so

ACtually i'm having fun with this pvm templ:

Archery 120 (real)
Tattics 120
Bushido 115 (working on the 120)
Anatomy 100
Healing 90
Chiva 80
Spellweaving 65
Meditation 50

ResSpell stoned.

Main bow used is a yumi (actually yumiS XD); time to time a compo, a crossbow and even an elven longbow but...basicly just for the fun of it.
Main pet used any ethereal; i neither got a swampy; i'm an archer not a tanker right? i should try to stay away from the mobs I got a beetle and then a lesser hyriu that i use as a tank in certain situations. (again, here too more for having fun than for a real utility)

About the necro/ss part, regardless how u get them, they work but i do not really like them; i think that solution work best on an archer tamer.
If u use it for going wraith and leeching mana...ok it works decently enough but: u'll move not mounted and then u'll move/be slow. too slow. and i dont like it at all.
The template of mine is built for doing dmg; that's why i want to use dbl shot that means Yumis, that means bushido that means being mounted.
If u use it for curse weap, ok here again it works, it gets your stats on...but u know what...losing karma pisses me off.
I neither consider using vampi embrac here... u'll be immune to lots of poison too...uhmm cool...u know what..i was able to save my @ss a bilions of time just cuz i were poisoned right before a paralyze

But hey that's me...so it's subjective...
Archery 120 becouse i like to use mace& shld for HLD and well they got nice stats/res too.
Tattics 120 cuz i want dmg
Bushido could be much lower too...but it wouldn't fit my temp.I wanted a lesser. i like them and i got one of them xD. Seriously, since i use yumis and i 'm going to spam dbl shot, whenever i'll be in mana probs i can still count on an high % for a gg critic dmg done with LS.
Moreover i like momentum strike, hittin more enemies at 1 time...does the job faster u know...then confidence...that's just an extra way of healing...without talking about luck bonus once achieved perfection..and ofc the possibility to cap hci with ls (if u ever need it)
Healing 90 talks for itself.
Anat 100; not really interested in 120 cuz the dmg bonus wont be that great and i wanted to spend points elsewere for a better benefit.
Sw 65; for the pixies...it's crazy how they are crazy; use them in the right situations, against the right mobs and they grants u more than a decent bonus dmg. Moreover they are commonly used as a diversion (as well as furys) U can cast them really fast and well u can get 4th of them while mounted...it gets some time before they die all / got dispelled. Then...u can use attunement, gift of renew....crazy skills for so few points...

Medit is there just as extra mana reg. Tbh mana isn't a prob at all..go get a gg yumi with some gg mana leech prop on it....
u feel the lack of res spell but nothing dramatic really [got it soulstoned so..whenever i want i cand switch but i dont think i'll do it anytime soon ] .....just use the brain and be sure u'll have fun

 

[Gb8719]

So you're using 65 SW just for the pixies or are you using other spells as well?

I like my Necro/SS on my Archer [60 SS, 40 Necro] but I find that I don't bother using it during solo fights. I don't like being non-mounted for a ranged character and I don't really have an issue with mana [perfection & mana leech are pretty helpfu] so I stay out of Wraith Form. I don't really use Curse Weapon all that much because of the Karma loss and it seems to be hurting my Chivalry buffs.
I'm not opposed to dropping the 100 points and finding a better place to put them.

 

[krilov]

Well i use all the spells i can use with the 65 points; so...attunement, gift of ren.,gift of life, time to time even ethy voyage and thunderstom, then furys, pixies;Wildfire could be interesting too but it would fail too much at 66; quite cool is arcane emp. spell but u feel it more once u got a gg cirlce.I could save my lesser casting that spell right before g.o.r on him for some power healing over time or casting a couple of "enchanted" close wounds.
As far as i know arcane emp. makes summons harder to dispell too..but tbh i never felt it and i didn't really care of it.
About stats, running 180s+ stami sounds cool but i preferred to pump int and hp especially cuz i use lots of special /spells and having no res spell..even 2 additional hit points can make the difference; so i run with 150+stami

About tali, probably the majority of people would say something like trinket..but i do not like it. I mean, i like it ofc...but i want to be indipendent from the tali as much as possible...and the trinket is my secondary choice; i like to have the possibilty to use "slayer" tali (against certain mobs - bird, bovine..) or the so called " mob killer -tali " like a yamandon % killer; thinks of it...rept.slayer bow + 100% yama killer tali, di capped, tattics 120 and that's some dmg
So basicly, things like lmc/hci/di are all capped without considering the talisman.

ps. if your bro got a disco tanker could be interesting thinking of using alchemy on ya archer

 

[RaistlinNowhere]

Hmmm, depends on your swing speed vs WoD casting time.

Example- on like Melisande I find that I do more damage chaining flame strike than I do casting WoD because of the casting time.

But we are talking about an archer , not a mage, so magery + eval is out of question

And about casting time, like is said i change jewels + scrapper for wod, the jewels have fc + fcr + sdi, so i have :

2 FC
6 FCR
52 sdi ( 12 ring + 15 brac + 25 scrapper)

I could also use the midnight bracers and a mana phasing orb for a total 68 sdi but im ok with what i have.

 

[NuSair]

But we are talking about an archer , not a mage, so magery + eval is out of question

And about casting time, like is said i change jewels + scrapper for wod, the jewels have fc + fcr + sdi, so i have :

2 FC
6 FCR
52 sdi ( 12 ring + 15 brac + 25 scrapper)

I could also use the midnight bracers and a mana phasing orb for a total 68 sdi but im ok with what i have.

Just a plain archer? Even an ABC, you can fit Magery + Eval on the template.

120 Archery
120 Tactics
105 Anatomy
120 Chivalry
100 Bushido
120 Magery
120 Evaluate Intelligence
________________

805 Skill points - Hunter's Headress (20), Magery Talisman (5), Ring (30), Bracelet (30)

And really, if you wanted to use reforging, you can get all the HCI on the armor (woodland) and get more skill points on your jewelry. With 90 skill points off jewelry- you are looking at 835 skill points. And really, if you are swapping out jewelry to start doing WoD or other spells- you can play around with the skills more.

 

[RaistlinNowhere]

And with that template you will not have enough stats for all, you cant have enough stam and life and mana at all. With that template you dont have any mana reg , only the one you could have from your suit and thats not enough. It isnt only a matter of math fitting skills, its a matter of sinergy between your skills. And an archer with spellweaving + necro for wraith and SS have almost the same sinergy as a sampire have.

 

[NuSair]

Stats won't be an issue. I regularly run 150 str / 150 dex and have like 80-90 mana on my sampires, so an archer wouldn't be any different.

Yes, would have to cut back on some of the skills... but, I think it's doable if the work and effort is put into it. If I wasn't so wrapped up between all my various sampires and fishing atm, I'd work it out.

 

[RaistlinNowhere]

lets see, a mage archer like you said isnt really playable at all, or at least for high end like an archer-weaver. Why? :

1) 90 mana with no mana reg, not practical at all.
2) 120 magery + 120 eval ( 240 skill points) VERSUS 120 spellweaving
3) need to imbue mage weapon on bow. Oh wait, it cant be done... You dont need it with spellweaving
4) magery need lrc or reagents, spellweaving not
5) spellweaving have a lot of sinergy with archery, more than magery
6) you only need a scrapper book instead of each type of slayer spellbooks like you would need with magery for doing a nice damage
7) WoD with 49 sdi + 6th focus + 2/6 + infinite mana (wraith form) its better than magery each way you look at it

With all these, i dont say that an archer-weaver is the best archer template , of course not. I only want to make the difference with the mage archer you said.

Is the mage archer template can be done? sure
does magery have sinergy with archery in the way we are talking? not at all
Is it a practical template? im afraid not, at least for this thread is all about, high end pvm hunting.

 

[NuSair]

lets see, a mage archer like you said isnt really playable at all, or at least for high end like an archer-weaver. Why? :

1) 90 mana with no mana reg, not practical at all.

who said no mana regen?

2) 120 magery + 120 eval ( 240 skill points) VERSUS 120 spellweaving

that is very true

3) need to imbue mage weapon on bow. Oh wait, it cant be done... You dont need it with spellweaving

ummm... and this needs to be done why? (ie- useless point)

4) magery need lrc or reagents, spellweaving not

yes. But on the flip side, magery requires significantly less mana than spellweaving

5) spellweaving have a lot of sinergy with archery, more than magery

I guess... (it's synergy btw)...
Gift of Renewal- no synergy with archery, just a decent HoT spell
Immolating Weapon- no use
Attunement- no synergy with archery, another good utility spell
Thunderstorm- no synergy
Nature's Fury- decent summon spell with 6th circle- ok for additional damage
Summon Fey- best part is that you summon up to 6 at a time. Other than that, they die quick
Summon Fiend- see Summon Fey
Reaper Form- probably one of two I'd say that has synergy with Archery. Only because of the SSI addition
Wildfire- Good AoE/DoT spell. Maybe synergy if you are kiting creatures through the flames
Essence of Wind- good for killing off low level spawn- no synergy
Dryad Allure- Charm a tank- solid- except in high end PVM, that creature will probably die off pretty quick without Magery to heal them.
Ethereal Voyage- Monster Ignore- no synergy with Archery- good utility spell
Word of Death- very good damage dealer at the end of a fight. Can't say that it has synergy with Archery.
Gift of Life- similar to word of death- good utility spell, no synergy
Arcane Empowerment- no synergy.

If you were talking about an Archer/Tamer, I could see where you would bring up the synergy aspect. But really- Magery has just as many (and honestly more) spells that are useful.

6) you only need a scrapper book instead of each type of slayer spellbooks like you would need with magery for doing a nice damage

Maybe... and this is a hard maybe. If you had 4/6 casting (which you can use with spellweaving), I'd be more inclined to agree with you. But, if you are AI'ing for 250+ @ 1.25....
So--- is it even worth it to change over?

7) WoD with 49 sdi + 6th focus + 2/6 + infinite mana (wraith form) its better than magery each way you look at it

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Wraith form is not infinite mana. Not even close. If the target has no mana, you don't leach anything. And to be fair, magery would have access to the same mana, because both are in wraith form.

With all these, i dont say that an archer-weaver is the best archer template , of course not. I only want to make the difference with the mage archer you said.

Is the mage archer template can be done? sure
does magery have sinergy with archery in the way we are talking? not at all
Is it a practical template? im afraid not, at least for this thread is all about, high end pvm hunting.

Each has nice utility spells which can enhance the playability of the template. I completely disagree that spellweaving has more synergy than magery in relation to archery. It just doesn't exist.

For high level PvM hunting- you are better off tossing necro with 100 SS on an ABC and just ignoring SW and Magery all together.

 

[RaistlinNowhere]

who said no mana regen?

If you put mr on suit, you will need those imbuing points for anything else, so finally you wont have a complete or high end suit ( and with mage archer you will need it, because you have to mix the warrior world with the magic world)
And you dont have enough room for a mana reg skill like focus or med.

ummm... and this needs to be done why? (ie- useless point)

Well, if you cast a magery spell or necro spell, your weapon will go to the backpack everytime and there isnt that problem with spellweaving ( and dont tell me to re - equip everytime XD )

yes. But on the flip side, magery requires significantly less mana than spellweaving

we can call a tie here.

I guess... (it's synergy btw)...
Gift of Renewal- no synergy with archery, just a decent HoT spell
Immolating Weapon- no use
Attunement- no synergy with archery, another good utility spell
Thunderstorm- no synergy
Nature's Fury- decent summon spell with 6th circle- ok for additional damage
Summon Fey- best part is that you summon up to 6 at a time. Other than that, they die quick
Summon Fiend- see Summon Fey
Reaper Form- probably one of two I'd say that has synergy with Archery. Only because of the SSI addition
Wildfire- Good AoE/DoT spell. Maybe synergy if you are kiting creatures through the flames
Essence of Wind- good for killing off low level spawn- no synergy
Dryad Allure- Charm a tank- solid- except in high end PVM, that creature will probably die off pretty quick without Magery to heal them.
Ethereal Voyage- Monster Ignore- no synergy with Archery- good utility spell
Word of Death- very good damage dealer at the end of a fight. Can't say that it has synergy with Archery.
Gift of Life- similar to word of death- good utility spell, no synergy
Arcane Empowerment- no synergy.

first sinergy doesnt mean that each spell if made for archery, sinergy means they complement each one very well, or better than them alone

And about Thunderstorm, its awesome for archery because archery lack of aoe damage, so we can use it here ( like wither but a bit less powerful)

About WoD, with 49 sdi = 150 damage + plus 6th focus = 500 damage and more. And didnt know about the 4/6 works on spellweaving, i thought it was only for chival.
And if the high end monster doesnt have mana (90% of them have), you can transform into the reaper form and use that extra ssi.

And the best sinergy of all is that you can use archery without the problem of going your weapon at the backpack on each casting.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Wraith form is not infinite mana. Not even close. If the target has no mana, you don't leach anything. And to be fair, magery would have access to the same mana, because both are in wraith form.

I know how it works, and like i said before, if the target doesnt have mana so you cant leech, transform on reaper

For high level PvM hunting- you are better off tossing necro with 100 SS on an ABC and just ignoring SW and Magery all together.

The opening post was asking about abc archer, necro or other template , that is why we are discussing this hehe

 

[Gb8719]

Just an update, since I ended up taking 60 SS and 40 Necro on the template...

The template is pretty solid with standard solo PvM hunting. My armor is subpar so I haven't attempted to solo any overly difficult content other than some mini-champ spawns and some easier mobs in Shame. I find that I hardly go into Wraith form unless I'm with a group running a peerless boss. When I am in wraith form and without having any focus or meditation and less than 45 LMC on my armor, I'm still able to chain AI on the target and hit for about 200ish damage every hit.

Pretty awesome build.

I'm wondering what types of harder bosses [Miasma, etc.] I'd be able to solo if I upgraded my gear a bit.
I've tried staying in Wraith form when soloing some creatures but find that being able to make a break for it if my health gets too low while mounted is much, much more useful. Currently only using Confidence heals through Bushido and 90 healing. Pots rarely if I'm able to unequip my bow in time. Haven't tried looking into any leeching heals with Necro yet though.

 

[CorwinXX]

To be short I suggest you to go with 80 Bushido and 95-120 Chivalry.

Read this for details:
http://stratics.com/community/threads/chivalry-vs-bushido.261287/

 

[Gb8719]

To be short I suggest you to go with 80 Bushido and 95-120 Chivalry.

Read this for details:
http://stratics.com/community/threads/chivalry-vs-bushido.261287/

Interesting post. A lot of great points you made.
Would you recommend running Necro/SS in addition to 120 Chivalry?

What type of content would this template excel at? I'd like to get into being able to help assist at Champion Spawns or Peerless bosses, as well as being able to possibly solo some content of my own eventually when I get superior gear.

 

[CorwinXX]

Would you recommend running Necro/SS in addition to 120 Chivalry?

I've never tried it myself. It seems you will not be able to chain AI without wraith form. But as I know you can't use this form while riding.

IMHO an archer need:
120 archery
100 tactics
80 bushido
95 chivalry
120 resisting spells

Without FC/FCR he also need 90 anatomy and healing for a serious fight and needn't more chivalry.
With FC/FCR he'd better get 120 chivalry and can do well without healing. But... it's difficult to get 4/6 with other stats capped.

What type of content would this template excel at?

You can solo any minispawn and some spawns althogh are not very comfortable vs big crouds.
With healing/anatomy I'd tried Slasher.

 

[RaistlinNowhere]

if you want to run an abc archer with necro then use this template :


archery 120
anatomy 90
tactics 100
heal 90
chival 90
bushido 120
necro 40
SS 70

Thats 720 skills, and you cover all the ABC archer can do + wraith form.

 

[Gb8719]

Two questions:

Is there any math done (or any way to interpret) on the new changes for heavy armor and the LMC associated with them? Only reason that I'm asking is that I'm running 90 meditation right now with Leather armor and considering bumping myself up to something heavier for the base LMC bonuses involved and dropping meditation for Focus. Can't seem to do the math and figure out what would be more beneficial.

Also: armor pierce vs armor ignore? Trying to decide on a Composite Bow or a Yumi for my main bow to use. Anyone have any math done on which is more effective?

Thanks!