Please fix/tweak pet instalog in fel

[Wenchkin]

They will die by default if i die and im not there to heal them and they have to fight on without me. Stop skirting around that fact!

Skirting around it? Hardly. Pet's don't always die when you are off screen from them, and you can also use summon balls to pull them to safety when you rez. So no, they don't always die. Mine don't and they're nothing special. I rarely even use a GD or cu, so if my squishy pets are still ok after a quick rez, I think it's a bit dramatic to describe pet death as a "default".

Yes they did intend you logging out to save your pet disapearing to a well known bug at the time, and as its been pointed out, that Bug was never skwished was it.

Exactly which bug is this and where has a dev specifically said we should use tactical log outs? I'm pretty certain they didn't say "log out to avoid your pets ever dying," I'm sure I'd remember that one heh. Also, even if they did suggest players log out to prevent a bug, that is not the same as saying logging out is intended during normal gameplay to prevent your pets from dying.

I suspect even without a bug, you'd support logging out to save pets from skill loss though

Wenchy

 

[Winker]

Skirting around it? Hardly. Pet's don't always die when you are off screen from them, and you can also use summon balls to pull them to safety when you rez. So no, they don't always die. Mine don't and they're nothing special. I rarely even use a GD or cu, so if my squishy pets are still ok after a quick rez, I think it's a bit dramatic to describe pet death as a "default".

There go you go Skirting again. Just cant admit the change your asking for can you?

They may not Die now,

but they will if you get the devs to change the game so when you die, get that part, >>when you die << the pet stays in the game even if you log out. You cant use pet balls, and you cant command a pet when your dead and if the pet stays in the game it will die cause get this part >>>You are dead<< and cant heal it. So that = pet death by default once you as the tamer dies.

What part of being dead and not being able to heal your pet dont you understand? Please share with me how you use a pet ball when your dead, i know i cant. But im willing to learn if you want to teach me.


Exactly which bug is this and where has a dev specifically said we should use tactical log outs? I'm pretty certain they didn't say "log out to avoid your pets ever dying," I'm sure I'd remember that one heh. Also, even if they did suggest players log out to prevent a bug, that is not the same as saying logging out is intended during normal gameplay to prevent your pets from dying.

Hummmm just off the top of my head, Dread Horn, I do recall lossing 2 good dragons there myself. Just disapearing after my death.

I suspect even without a bug, you'd support logging out to save pets from skill loss though

Yup I sure would, I don't think your death should = the death of a pet who loses some of its strength each time it dies. Thats just as good as saying a warriors weapon should lose some durabilty each time he dies

Wenchy

 

[Wenchkin]

There go you go Skirting again. Just cant admit the change your asking for can you?

They may not Die now,

but they will if you get the devs to change the game so when you die, get that part, >>when you die << the pet stays in the game even if you log out. You cant use pet balls, and you cant command a pet when your dead and if the pet stays in the game it will die cause get this part >>>You are dead<< and cant heal it. So that = pet death by default once you as the tamer dies.

What part of being dead and not being able to heal your pet dont you understand? Please share with me how you use a pet ball when your dead, i know i cant. But im willing to learn if you want to teach me.

I know what happens when a pet can't log out while I'm dead, I stay logged in. I actually go to the healers and run back after a rez a lot of the time. I had tamers when pet bonding didn't exist and my pets were left in game if I crashed too. I logged back in as quick as I could and sometimes they were alive, sometimes they weren't. Sometimes we were both dead. I know how it works, I lived without bonding and still kept pets alive after death and crashes. 28k dialup gave me plenty of practice lol.

What will happen with this change is that sometimes I will have to rez my pet and I'll have a bit of skill loss. Whooptie-doo. That is no different to when I have to run to a healers and run back to my pets and face the exact same consequence.

So no, again, pet death is not a default. You can sometimes return and find pets are alive, because I do it all the time. I don't carry pet balls routinely so 9 times out of 10 I rely on running back from the healers in time. My pets do not always die before I rez and return to them, your pets won't always die under the same circumstances. Simple.

Hummmm just off the top of my head, Dread Horn, I do recall lossing 2 good dragons there myself. Just disapearing after my death.

Ok, that bug isn't fixed. But you don't need to log out to keep a pet away from that bug. I could avoid it simply by not going to dread horn. Not ideal, but if you take out logging out as an option, that is what you would do to avoid that problem. And if that bug is fixed then there is even less reason to hold on to this auto stabling thing.

Yup I sure would, I don't think your death should = the death of a pet who loses some of its strength each time it dies. Thats just as good as saying a warriors weapon should lose some durabilty each time he dies

Well your warrior's weapons only work while he is alive and on screen swinging them. Your pet can fight independently of you. So a pet is not really comparable to a sword. Besides, it's not some law that every skill must be exactly the same as every other. I don't see why every change to taming has to also ripple out to other skills, just as I don't think a change to a warrior needs to be mirrored for tamers.

Wenchy

 

[Lord Frodo]

Publish 33

From UOGuide

​

The following is a list of changes deployed as Publish 33 on June 21, 2005.
Changes

• Addressed an issue with followers being lost at logout.
  • When a player logs out, followers (pets, hired NPCs) will be auto-stabled, returning to the player upon login.

So this is the bug that you all want to play with just because some PvPer didn't get to kill a pet. This is the work around that UO Devs put in because they never found the bug causing people to lose their pets for a number of different reasons, this bug hit all players alike. Yes there have been some more bugs that have happened from 2005 til now and with pets and those look like they might be area/boss related. Please do not mess with the pet auto-stable just to appease the whine of a PvPer that can't grief a dead PvP Tamer.

And if you don't think he is whining then go here http://stratics.com/community/threa...fix-pet-insta-log-in-fel.285788/#post-2185157 just another thread that I guess he didn't get enough attention. Please stop BEGGING the DEVs for this.

 

[Wenchkin]

The following is a list of changes deployed as Publish 33 on June 21, 2005.
Changes

* Addressed an issue with followers being lost at logout.

- * When a player logs out, followers (pets, hired NPCs) will be auto-stabled, returning to the player upon login.

So this is the bug that you all want to play with just because some PvPer didn't get to kill a pet. This is the work around that UO Devs put in because they never found the bug causing people to lose their pets for a number of different reasons, this bug hit all players alike. Yes there have been some more bugs that have happened from 2005 til now and with pets and those look like they might be area/boss related. Please do not mess with the pet auto-stable just to appease the whine of a PvPer that can't grief a dead PvP Tamer.

We can't ring fence bits of code from improvement simply because bad stuff might happen if it breaks. All we need here is a check - is the pet in combat, if so, wait x time then continue to log the pet out. Otherwise proceed as you would normally.

Doesn't sound terrifying to me...

As for this being all about PvP it isn't. It happens anywhere tamers find themselves in trouble. Ooh, my pet's going to die! *logout* Sometimes they die anyway, but it's an awful nice crutch for tamers to lean on. Let's not pretend otherwise, because we wouldn't have non PvP tamers arguing about this if they weren't seeking to keep something valuable. I know how often I see tactical logouts in Tram, that's why I watch other folks pet bars - early warning system "My pet won't die if I log out in time" is quite a nice deal for any tamer.

It also isn't about griefing if pets die in PvP. if your pet is chewing someone when you die, it's perfectly acceptable to kill the pet. You took it there, you set it on that player, they're under no obligation to back off. A PvPer knows that players can pop back to life instantly, if their pet is still alive and ready to go, they're back in business chewing your rear. If you kill the pet, it takes longer before they can return to fight - they're effectively disarmed till the pet is rezzed. It makes perfect sense tactically to do this. Especially when so few PvP tamers have vet. I still curse when it happens, but I lost a good WW through a player's gate once, that was much much worse than being PKd today.

Wenchy

 

[Winker]

Publish 33

From UOGuide

​

The following is a list of changes deployed as Publish 33 on June 21, 2005.
Changes

• Addressed an issue with followers being lost at logout.
  • When a player logs out, followers (pets, hired NPCs) will be auto-stabled, returning to the player upon login.

So this is the bug that you all want to play with just because some PvPer didn't get to kill a pet. This is the work around that UO Devs put in because they never found the bug causing people to lose their pets for a number of different reasons, this bug hit all players alike. Yes there have been some more bugs that have happened from 2005 til now and with pets and those look like they might be area/boss related. Please do not mess with the pet auto-stable just to appease the whine of a PvPer that can't grief a dead PvP Tamer.


And if you don't think he is whining then go here http://stratics.com/community/threa...fix-pet-insta-log-in-fel.285788/#post-2185157 just another thread that I guess he didn't get enough attention. Please stop BEGGING the DEVs for this.

Nice one Frodo, I was too tired last night to do the leg work and dig this out.

So thre you have it folks Auto log works as intended, Like it or not thats how its meant to work. I remember way back in the day, I lost 2 extreamly good Dragons that were both bonded.

@Wenchy Shh now, you know not what your talking about

 

[swroberts]

As long as it is only GD's...Leave Swampies and horses out of it...

And kill that stupid Pet Rez timer while you are at it

 

[Warpig Inc]

If a GD wasn't stupid and easy kill once the tamer was out of the way. Why kill the tamer first?

PVP and PVM both abuse the feature.

Pets run to the four winds after the tamers death. Then they are to stupid to walk around trees, rocks and corners to return to the tamer once they are rezed. Same obstacles they went around to get where they are. A pet that does not have line of sight with it's owner after 1 min should auto stable. Not auto log. Keep that stealth then auto log creature to fav dark corner hunter spot hunting. There is a reason a pet summoning ball not suppose to work in some areas.

Would have to agree with the OP as soon as pets AI keeps them from getting hung up on trees and house corners. As soon as a pet with no line of sight of owner movees the same speed as a mounted player. As soon as pets are modded like a suit to have their mana regn and HCI type mods capped out to hang with a players abilities. Yes pets are stupid after after the tamer is dead by the OP own combat tactics.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

We can't ring fence bits of code from improvement simply because bad stuff might happen if it breaks. All we need here is a check - is the pet in combat, if so, wait x time then continue to log the pet out. Otherwise proceed as you would normally.

Doesn't sound terrifying to me...

As for this being all about PvP it isn't. It happens anywhere tamers find themselves in trouble. Ooh, my pet's going to die! *logout* Sometimes they die anyway, but it's an awful nice crutch for tamers to lean on. Let's not pretend otherwise, because we wouldn't have non PvP tamers arguing about this if they weren't seeking to keep something valuable. I know how often I see tactical logouts in Tram, that's why I watch other folks pet bars - early warning system "My pet won't die if I log out in time" is quite a nice deal for any tamer.

It also isn't about griefing if pets die in PvP. if your pet is chewing someone when you die, it's perfectly acceptable to kill the pet. You took it there, you set it on that player, they're under no obligation to back off. A PvPer knows that players can pop back to life instantly, if their pet is still alive and ready to go, they're back in business chewing your rear. If you kill the pet, it takes longer before they can return to fight - they're effectively disarmed till the pet is rezzed. It makes perfect sense tactically to do this. Especially when so few PvP tamers have vet. I still curse when it happens, but I lost a good WW through a player's gate once, that was much much worse than being PKd today.

Wenchy

Its ok Wenchy

If you mess with peoples 'easy mode' things will always tend to get a bit weird lol.

It makes perfect sense that you should quite easily run to wherever you want and then just log out/in so that your pet is standing next to you. Didnt someone in this very thread complain about having pets follow you slowly and/or get stuck?
It also makes perfect sense that you command your 950 hit point greater dragon to attack and kill someone but if things go bad you can delete him from the fight just by logging out.
And why shouldnt tamers be able to abuse a template and not have vet because of the all mighty logout?

I wonder how many times an hour a tamer logs in and out during his normal game play? 5 or 6?
After listening to all the counter arguments in this thread I am beginning to see the light. I think that just saving the pet is not enough. I think that when you log out/in to save your pet it should also come back full health. That way maybe we can get the amount of logouts up to approx 15 times per hour.

At least everyone involved recognized that this was a pvp issue and wasnt just concerned with their own personal 'easy mode' on a different facet.

 

[Warpig Inc]

Doesn't have to be a GD. Say all kill and target a pack of frenzy on a player at yew gate. First thing they do is run around a house to scrape them off. Then they come after the tamer. Tamer has 5 petballs on a hotkey and they wish they stopped to cast a heal.

There is a lomg list of tactics in PVP that doesn't involve the gank. Untill how much is spent on a suit is no longer higher on the list then skills worked PVP will remain a YAWN. A tamer can spend 220 - 360 skill on their trade. Untill the pets skills and AI reflects that, tamers will still lean to being a cute addition to the PVP fields. Maybe if a pets shared the same mods as their owner they will be fun. Fighter or mage tweeked pets. Still have to deal with critters can be outrun and are to dumb to go around many trees.

OOH. New ideal for event. Packy drag footrace through the Trinsic jungle. Fastest player to drag their pet from the southwestern sandy beach to Trinsics front gate.

 

[Lord Frodo]

I just love how people think it is so easy to code things or fix bugs, I guess they should be DEVs on UO and fire all our current DEVs. If it was so easy then UO would not have any bugs at all. This has nothing to do with "easy mode" or fixing a non-game breaking bug or what ever you want to call it and every thing to do with bring back a very big game changing bug that the DEVs could never find.

There are 2 funny parts to this WHINE

1. A big bad PvPer whining that he can't kill a NERFED GD when other PvPers have already said kill the GD first and still whines and BEGS the devs to fix this
2. A Tamer *cough* *cough* Wenchkin *cough* *cough* that taught me how to do this with fresh tamed/non-bonded pets.

 

[Cetric]

EVERYONE, not just pvpers, abuses this game mechanic FYI.


Do you think the devs, back in 2005, thought they were putting in a feature when they added this? A feature that could pull yopur pet from wherever it is in game to your location, by logging out and back in? A feature that saved your pet if you died and couldn't heal it anymore? No. It was an intended fix to people who got disconnected, whether on the game end or their internet went out, so they didn't lose their pets.

If they thought it was a feature, they could of just put a button on the paperdoll to "auto-stable pet"


The act of even logging out and back in to pull your pet to a location, say a non pet-ball usage location, is a pure abuse of a game mechanic. all of this is an abuse of a mechanic, no different then bugs and things people have abused in the past.

But i don't care, whatever, i'm used to it and could really care less if people want to logout to save their pets. The only time it bugs me is when you take a tamer down in an area where he wouldn't be able to res the pet, and he resses and relogs his pet in. For that reason, i like to try to get the player dismounted and hold him there until his pet is dead.

 

[Lord Frodo]

EVERYONE, not just pvpers, abuses this game mechanic FYI.


Do you think the devs, back in 2005, thought they were putting in a feature when they added this? A feature that could pull yopur pet from wherever it is in game to your location, by logging out and back in? A feature that saved your pet if you died and couldn't heal it anymore? No. It was an intended fix to people who got disconnected, whether on the game end or their internet went out, so they didn't lose their pets.

If they thought it was a feature, they could of jsut put a button on the paperdoll to "auto-stable pet"


The act of even logging out and back in to pull your pet to a location, say a non pet-ball usage location, is a pure abuse of a game mechanic. all of this is an abuse of a mechanic, no different then bugs and things people have abused in the past.

I agree that a lot of people use this feature and some for the wrong reason. I do on fresh tamed pet all the time and I have used it after my PET is dead and I am dead because I was right there with my PET trying to heal it with aids and greater heal spells. Run and find a healer, get rezed, dress, recall to Luna and get more aids, log out/log-in, rez and heal pet. WOW I am so bad. Funny how these features were taugh to me by a Tamer that is now screaming her head off about it. Is this a game breaking feature, NO. Could messing with a work around fix on a bug that the DEVs never found be a game breaker, YES. This bug didn't just happen if you got disconnected, I was hit with it a few times while collecting BODs, log-in get BODs (1 of each) log out, 6 hrs later log-in to get BOD and WTF I am no longer riding my beetle, WOW, I was one of the lucky ones and only lost blue beetles. There were reports of people losing entire stables, people losing dead pets after crossing server lines, people getting rezes and recalling to bank to get aids and recalling back and to find thier follower slots empty. PLEASE DO NOT MESS WITH OLD CODE OR WORK-AROUNDS, WE ALL KNOW HOW WELL THAT HAS WORKED IN THE PAST.

 

[Picus at the office]

It's a clear abuse of the game mechanics that we all use. I'm not sure if they can adjust it to be cleared off the code in Fel, I'd be shocked. All said though it's a bug that should be squashed as a combat engaged player or player controled pet should not be able to log out.

 

[Lord Frodo]

 

[Picus at the office]

Why troll on something that should have no impact upon anyones gameplay except those who abuse the mechanics? If one could leave the tram side to what it currently is I think no one would care, the fel side should really not have instant log out if combat flagged.

 

[Wenchkin]

I just love how people think it is so easy to code things or fix bugs, I guess they should be DEVs on UO and fire all our current DEVs. If it was so easy then UO would not have any bugs at all. This has nothing to do with "easy mode" or fixing a non-game breaking bug or what ever you want to call it and every thing to do with bring back a very big game changing bug that the DEVs could never find.

There are 2 funny parts to this WHINE

1. A big bad PvPer whining that he can't kill a NERFED GD when other PvPers have already said kill the GD first and still whines and BEGS the devs to fix this
2. A Tamer *cough* *cough* Wenchkin *cough* *cough* that taught me how to do this with fresh tamed/non-bonded pets.

I just love how people think it is so easy to code things or fix bugs, I guess they should be DEVs on UO and fire all our current DEVs. If it was so easy then UO would not have any bugs at all. This has nothing to do with "easy mode" or fixing a non-game breaking bug or what ever you want to call it and every thing to do with bring back a very big game changing bug that the DEVs could never find.

I never said it was easy to fix. However I do think the devs are capable of working with their own code and after several years, tackling an improvement to that code. I wouldn't insult them by acting like they can't handle their own jobs.

As for the bug itself, we need to be a lot better at reporting bugs and helping the devs reproduce and squish them, not working around them or avoiding them entirely. We also need players to actually say a bit more than "my gd just went poof" so we can ensure no human error bugs are being counted with the real ones. A lot of human error is initially called a bug till we get the details, this bug is no different.

And y'know, I'm a tamer with lots of pets I'd be really upset to lose. So I'm hardly the sort who wouldn't care if a bug crept in. The devs don't have a special Wenchy guard lmao.

1. A Tamer *cough* *cough* Wenchkin *cough* *cough* that taught me how to do this with fresh tamed/non-bonded pets.

Your fresh tamed pet isn't in combat by the time you get to a safe location to bring it to you. Therefore it wouldn't be affected by a combat timer.

Now, as for me giving you advice - well I am mod on the Tamer forum, I'm supposed to help you I've suggested tamers use skill items and PS too, it doesn't mean I agree with them being in game. But it would be unhelpful and silly for me to pretend certain options don't exist because I don't like them. Especially when some tamers don't have enough magery to gate, gate doesn't work everywhere, pet balls are useless for fresh tames and pets don't spawn in nice places. I would love to see a more elegant solution in place of logging out, but it's not here yet.

Or would you prefer I didn't tell you about it, suggested you walked out, only for you to lose a 5.0 pet because you didn't realise you could get it home safely? LOL.

Wenchy

 

[Lord Frodo]

As for the bug itself, we need to be a lot better at reporting bugs and helping the devs reproduce and squish them, not working around them or avoiding them entirely. We also need players to actually say a bit more than "my gd just went poof" so we can ensure no human error bugs are being counted with the real ones. A lot of human error is initially called a bug till we get the details, this bug is no different.

The bug most people are worried about was fixed in 2005 with the Auto-Stable. There was no patteren to this bug. I myself lost only a couple of Blue Beetles and none of my pets from my Tamer, I got damn lucky. I would log on and collect BODs (Luna top floor, one of each) while mounted on Beetle. Walk back over to where you could log out and log out, at no time did I dismount. I would do this with 12 chars and repeat every 6 hours 3x a day. I logged in one time adn one of my Smith/Tailors bug is gone so I report it. Not really much to say or why this happened. This happened to me a couple of times so I stabled all my beetles until the fix. I still took out pets with my Tamer but none that I would be heart broken if I lost it. People also reported losing entire stables from this bug. People would cross server lines with pets alive/and dead and lose pets but not everybody lost pets this way. People would leave dead pets to go get aids and come back to empty follower slots but not all the time. This bug was totally random of how/when/where it would happen. Now people are asking the DEVs to mess with the Auto-Stable feature to stop Tamers from using it to save pets and the only way to do that is to go in and mess with the work around they put in to fix a totally random bug. If we lose one pet from them doing this it is to high of a cost to fix a non-game breaking feature/bug or what ever you want to call it. I don't know how you could even test this except do it and hope for the very best. Is it really worth the cost/damage this fix some of you are asking for worth it. IMHO it is not and this is just gonna have to be one of those things that non-PvPers get to tell the PvPers this time "DEAL WITH IT".

 

[Tjalle]

I happen to share a different view from yours and I don't think its fair to have your pet destined to die at any spawn just because your dead and cant heal it any longer, and it loose stats along the way.

Not fair?

If a pet attacks a mob/spawn that is stronger than itself, of course it´s fair if it dies when no one is healing it.
Solution: don´t fight mobs/spawns that it can´t handle by itself if no one heals it.

 

[budman23]

Pet mechanics have been broken for many many years.
Particularly the flagging rules and how a green pet goes blue, or how people take murder counts when attacking greys with pets.

These problems have been around for YEARS and are 10x as significant as the whining bs everyone here is doing.

Nothing has ever been done to fix these problems, and if we cant fix something that significant, why should i care less about this?

 

[EDA_GL]

Pet mechanics have been broken for many many years.
Particularly the flagging rules and how a green pet goes blue, or how people take murder counts when attacking greys with pets.

These problems have been around for YEARS and are 10x as significant as the whining bs everyone here is doing.

Nothing has ever been done to fix these problems, and if we cant fix something that significant, why should i care less about this?

I agree about the pet flagging/murder count issue.

The pet/summon has its own 2 minute timer. As long as the tamer/caster keeps their thing re-flagging within the 2 minute window, all is good.
The problem arrives when their intended target can evade the pet/summon for a period of time over the 2 minute window, then the pet/summon re-flags...causing a new flag timer to be started.
If said target dies, murder count given.

 

[Wenchkin]

The bug most people are worried about was fixed in 2005 with the Auto-Stable. There was no patteren to this bug. I myself lost only a couple of Blue Beetles and none of my pets from my Tamer, I got damn lucky. I would log on and collect BODs (Luna top floor, one of each) while mounted on Beetle. Walk back over to where you could log out and log out, at no time did I dismount. I would do this with 12 chars and repeat every 6 hours 3x a day. I logged in one time adn one of my Smith/Tailors bug is gone so I report it. Not really much to say or why this happened. This happened to me a couple of times so I stabled all my beetles until the fix. I still took out pets with my Tamer but none that I would be heart broken if I lost it. People also reported losing entire stables from this bug. People would cross server lines with pets alive/and dead and lose pets but not everybody lost pets this way. People would leave dead pets to go get aids and come back to empty follower slots but not all the time. This bug was totally random of how/when/where it would happen. Now people are asking the DEVs to mess with the Auto-Stable feature to stop Tamers from using it to save pets and the only way to do that is to go in and mess with the work around they put in to fix a totally random bug. If we lose one pet from them doing this it is to high of a cost to fix a non-game breaking feature/bug or what ever you want to call it. I don't know how you could even test this except do it and hope for the very best. Is it really worth the cost/damage this fix some of you are asking for worth it. IMHO it is not and this is just gonna have to be one of those things that non-PvPers get to tell the PvPers this time "DEAL WITH IT".

Well as I said before, I've got a lot of pets I'm fond of so I'm no less at risk of any problems than you or any other tamer. I was on tamers forum for years before I was a mod there so I remember the discussions about pet bugs too. I also know some issues are still present. Zero followers still happens, you have to search the area you were in for your pet. Pets sometimes just run as far as they can in one direction. Had it happen to me in Tokuno champ area where the hiryu spawn. Petra found my dragon way away from where it had been. I'd just died and he scarpered by the time I got to my body lol. Shows the faith my dragons have in me But such incidents have happened quite recently and relogging and pet balls don't seem to help, you have to look for the pet and find it manually. I suspect this also accounts for a few of the "my pet went poof" incidents because they are so fast you would think they did vanish. So that is still at large.

The server line thing I'm not sure about, it was being abused by some PvPers to lure pets and kill them so I would guess the devs may have fixed that separately. An entire stable vanishing and not being due to another person accessing the account - that was a truly exceptionally rare occurrence. I wasn't giving folk the 3rd degree when they mentioned a bug back then so I'm not sure how many were bugs, 3rd parties or just an error where data about a particular pet got deleted. Or it was one of the old evil stablemasters returning - they used to poof with all the pets they stored if they respawned. Something like that. Back when you needed to remember exactly which stablemaster had your pets lol.

Now, as to the problem you describe, I've had it happen since 2005 a few times. On crafters with bugs. Lost a really well trained bug to it, main tailor lost a couple too. I noticed immediately that there was a pattern of what I was doing which likely caused them to go wild. I was logging out in shops - and you stay in game for a while when you do that. All the time your pet is losing a teeny bit of loyalty anyway, especially if you aren't commanding the pet successfully to get it wonderfully happy. My crafters weren't loaded with food like my tamers, so back then I wasn't feeding them like I should have been. I didn't set pet command macros for those pets either, so where my tamers regularly tell pets to do stuff, my crafters could go for weeks without commanding their bugs. And they both logged out in places where they wouldn't have immediately logged out. Boats, shops etc. My house often had spawn round it so there would be pets vanishing from my house at times too. So you build up enough time in game and sat logged out with a pet that isn't being fed or commanded very regularly and they will get fed up and go wild. As far as I'm aware you can still lose a pet this way, I don't think auto stable can fix it. Luna is a busy town, folks have lost GDs there plenty of times since auto stable. I realised what was happening when I started logging out at home instead and found occasionally a pet was wild in the room with me. Even one of my tamers had that happen. She'd been fighting, ran home and logged out. I suspect her kits got bored and decided to have a house party. Just as well I always hide before I log out, because I was met by 2 very angry kitsune

Basically you can't rely on autostable as the primary carer for pets, which is why I always tell players to stable a pet not log out with it in Luna. Or at least do it in a house with secure doors. Then if it goes wild it's contained safely. Back in my newbie days if you logged out beyond the confines of an inn or your home, you either used camping skill or your character stayed in game longer before it vanished. I believe it was an intended feature that's stayed with us until today. Like when you try to change char on the same account and the first char stays in game. That is the bit of code I would point the finger at here.

Something tells me I'm going to be making a tamer bugs thread on the tamer board to see if we can gather data about these things and encourage more folk to send in bug reports.

Wenchy

 

[budman23]

Hailstorm should work regardless if im blue casting on a blue pet
Because im blue casting on a blue pet the spell does 0 damage
If i cast hailstorm on a blue person and im blue it attacks the person
If i cast hailstrom on a tile where a blue is hidden and im blue it attacks the person
Since hailstorm is all cold damage it is the best attack spell vs a dragon.
Having spells not work because a blue casted it is dumb.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Pet mechanics have been broken for many many years.
Particularly the flagging rules and how a green pet goes blue, or how people take murder counts when attacking greys with pets.

These problems have been around for YEARS and are 10x as significant as the whining bs everyone here is doing.

Nothing has ever been done to fix these problems, and if we cant fix something that significant, why should i care less about this?

Have to admit that is a good point. People have been using pet bugs to abuse the flagging system for too long

 

[Lord Frodo]

Something tells me I'm going to be making a tamer bugs thread on the tamer board to see if we can gather data about these things and encourage more folk to send in bug reports.Wenchy

This has to happen long b4 any attempt at trying to change auto-stable. Running 2 BOD accounts you do not want to wait for any timer so BOD Runners always log-out at an inn so they may log thier next collector. This is where I lost my bugs while mounted and nobody could ever explain why. UOs main program is using a code that IMHO our current DEVs have no clue about programming in it. This is not putting our DEV team down because in programming this happens all the time. I went from punch cards all the way to 64bit machines (70s-90s). Hell, the first Data Modem I worked on was SN# XN1(1970s lol) and took up as much room as 2 frigs and now look at them, 1 card. Auto-stable is a patch program and not a rewright of the old code. So we have old-old code (UO main) plus old code (patch program, auto-stable) that they were able to get to work with and over ride the old-old code, are there any DEVs around from 8 years ago that worked on this? So the fix they may have to do is make is a patch program that works with and over rides the old patch program that works with and over rides the old-old code, WOW.

Here are some things I do not understand.

1. Why are you (OP) killing the Tamer b4 you kill the pet?
2. Why do you (OP) have a need to kill a pet after you kill a Tamer? You get nothing from the pet. You have already gotten your Ins money and count, so IMHO the only reason to kill the pet is to grief the Tamer and make thier pet lose skill and stat points that have to be retrained, there is no 20 min timer for this.
   • IMHO this is what this thread started out as and nothing more. A whine about not being able to grief a PvP Tamer. Go read his past threads/posts and you will understand that this is what the OP is all about.
3. Why don't pets (alive or dead, mostly dead) walk through MOBs when you (alive or dead, we do) give the "follow/come command"? This is when PvM Tamers have to use the auto-stable feature in order to get pets that are stuck.
4. When was the last time the DEVs did anything PvP template/pet that did not affect PvM template/pet? Here I will answer that, NEVER. This PvP Pet Timer request will carry over to PvM, you watch. Sorry NO TY.

 

[SlobberKnocker]

1. this situation on pet vs tamer depends on the pvp situation. in a gate fight you will target the tamer first. get him down, get out of line of sight via invise or off screen and the pet has been neutralized. in situation two say a grinder set up on the bridge in despise or at a harry, the pet would be targeted before the tamer as in most cases the pet is being used to push the grinder. a good tamer will utilize a pet ball here and pull the pet back if he's getting low and hence heal it up and push again.

2. killing the pet after killing the tamer. in gate fighting this is sort of a cherry on top of the sundae feature. in a spawn fight this is good tactics. the tamer now has to not only rez hiimself up but also rez up his pet. nothing wrong with this. sort of a win win. of course greifing does occur but there is a strategy to killing the pet.

3. dead toons dont walk through everything either. they still get stuck on house edges and trees in the jungle. dont pet balls work in this regard.

4. i respect the pvm / pvp interaction but were only talking about 1/10 point loss in stats. a pvm guy will gain this back quite quickly pvming. pvp'rs are really at a disadvantage here given the fact that the pets purpose is burst damage on an opponent rather than where a pvm'r would spend an hour fighting mobs and hence gains the stats back in no time at all.

discuss

 

[Elden of Baja]

• Why are you (OP) killing the Tamer b4 you kill the pet?
• Why do you (OP) have a need to kill a pet after you kill a Tamer? You get nothing from the pet. You have already gotten your Ins money and count, so IMHO the only reason to kill the pet is to grief the Tamer and make thier pet lose skill and stat points that have to be retrained, there is no 20 min timer for this.
  • IMHO this is what this thread started out as and nothing more. A whine about not being able to grief a PvP Tamer. Go read his past threads/posts and you will understand that this is what the OP is all about.
• Why don't pets (alive or dead, mostly dead) walk through MOBs when you (alive or dead, we do) give the "follow/come command"? This is when PvM Tamers have to use the auto-stable feature in order to get pets that are stuck.
• When was the last time the DEVs did anything PvP template/pet that did not affect PvM template/pet? Here I will answer that, NEVER. This PvP Pet Timer request will carry over to PvM, you watch. Sorry NO TY.

1. 
   1. In PVP You kill the Weakest link of a team FIRST. 950 HP pet VS 150 HP Player. Guess which one you should Target first??? Basic Strategy in the Majority of Video games.

1. 1. 
      2. Do you think it is Griefing when your Pet dies in PVM and Loses Stats? Why would PvP Be Any different. Its a Risk you take if you bring your pet to a boss, why shouldn't it be a risk when you bring it to the PvP Field to try and kill another Player?

1. 1. 
      3. Irrelevant. The Change they were asking for was to be based on Combat timers. You might have to wait an extra 2 Minutes in those instances to get your Pet.

1. 
   4. Its an Abused Mechanic in the game that players are using in a way that wasn't Originally intended. Blame the PvP Tamers who can't handle their pets dying.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

This has to happen long b4 any attempt at trying to change auto-stable. Running 2 BOD accounts you do not want to wait for any timer so BOD Runners always log-out at an inn so they may log thier next collector. This is where I lost my bugs while mounted and nobody could ever explain why. UOs main program is using a code that IMHO our current DEVs have no clue about programming in it. This is not putting our DEV team down because in programming this happens all the time. I went from punch cards all the way to 64bit machines (70s-90s). Hell, the first Data Modem I worked on was SN# XN1(1970s lol) and took up as much room as 2 frigs and now look at them, 1 card. Auto-stable is a patch program and not a rewright of the old code. So we have old-old code (UO main) plus old code (patch program, auto-stable) that they were able to get to work with and over ride the old-old code, are there any DEVs around from 8 years ago that worked on this? So the fix they may have to do is make is a patch program that works with and over rides the old patch program that works with and over rides the old-old code, WOW.

Here are some things I do not understand.

1. Why are you (OP) killing the Tamer b4 you kill the pet?
2. Why do you (OP) have a need to kill a pet after you kill a Tamer? You get nothing from the pet. You have already gotten your Ins money and count, so IMHO the only reason to kill the pet is to grief the Tamer and make thier pet lose skill and stat points that have to be retrained, there is no 20 min timer for this.
   • IMHO this is what this thread started out as and nothing more. A whine about not being able to grief a PvP Tamer. Go read his past threads/posts and you will understand that this is what the OP is all about.
3. Why don't pets (alive or dead, mostly dead) walk through MOBs when you (alive or dead, we do) give the "follow/come command"? This is when PvM Tamers have to use the auto-stable feature in order to get pets that are stuck.
4. When was the last time the DEVs did anything PvP template/pet that did not affect PvM template/pet? Here I will answer that, NEVER. This PvP Pet Timer request will carry over to PvM, you watch. Sorry NO TY.

I lost a Paroxy Swampy to a pet bug and have posted/commented about it on these forums multiple times.

I understand what it feels like to lose a pet but that still doesnt mean that at some point I dont want the devs to take a look at and try to fix the pvp instalog issue.

Its not about who is stronger or what the pet can or cannot do alone. It is simply a common sense issue that should be addressed. You should not be able to command a powerful pet to attack at will and then be able to instantly remove it from the fight just by logging out. And it doesnt make a difference that I can kill a greater dragon by itself 99% of the time 1 vs 1. There are other pvp situations involved that are being abused with instalog

I would be more then happy to even just hear a dev come here and say they understand the issue but it cannot be changed due to other issues beyond control bla, bla, bla.
Instead of just wondering if it has not been addressed because nobody has been complaining or they just dont have the time to spend on it.

 

[Picus at the office]

Why are you (OP) killing the Tamer b4 you kill the pet?

1. Why do you (OP) have a need to kill a pet after you kill a Tamer? You get nothing from the pet. You have already gotten your Ins money and count, so IMHO the only reason to kill the pet is to grief the Tamer and make thier pet lose skill and stat points that have to be retrained, there is no 20 min timer for this.
   • IMHO this is what this thread started out as and nothing more. A whine about not being able to grief a PvP Tamer. Go read his past threads/posts and you will understand that this is what the OP is all about.
2. Why don't pets (alive or dead, mostly dead) walk through MOBs when you (alive or dead, we do) give the "follow/come command"? This is when PvM Tamers have to use the auto-stable feature in order to get pets that are stuck.
3. When was the last time the DEVs did anything PvP template/pet that did not affect PvM template/pet? Here I will answer that, NEVER. This PvP Pet Timer request will carry over to PvM, you watch. Sorry NO TY.

Do you really have to ask why you would kill the person commanding the pet first? Really?

1. For a varity of reasons but mostly to reduce the skill points that the pet has. I have no problems killing some persons dragon 50 times in a night if given the chance. They brought the crutch to the fight so it needs to die, simple.

2. I don't know and it really doesn't matter. Most tamers run with magery so it isn't hard to say "all follow me" cast an invis and repeat till your pet is free.

3. Never but that isn't part of the OP's initial question.

 

[SevenFaith]

I've read through roughly half of the posts in this thread and it seems that people are not connecting with the OP... All this talk about PvMers not wanting stat loss in PvM scenarios is completely off topic.

Give pets used in Fel the flagging system as stated by several posters. If you used your pet to flag someone in the battlefield, they will be in the heat of battle until sufficient time has passed to say otherwise. Keep it to Player Flagging only. This way tamers can still hunt in Fel and can still abuse insta-logging if they are the ones flagged while hunting.

 

[Wenchkin]

Well, the reason some of us keep mentioning Tram and PvM is because the fix is required everywhere. There is no point in only fixing half of the problem when you can fix the whole thing in one go. PvP does actually happen in Tram too btw. And if Order/Chaos etc came back into Tram, I think some of you would regret saying this is just a Fel issue So let's fix it and do a decent job. It also makes it easier if pets behave in a consistent way over all facets. This saves the casual Fel visitor from unexpected nasty surprises.

Players simply need to adapt to staying logged in while they play and not trying to abuse the system to keep pets alive.

Wenchy

 

[DrVenkman]

Once again pvpers are trying to get rid of tamers in pvp, but heres the thing...Ill fight anyone straight up in a duel and if i lose so what, but if you come at me trying to gank me than yeah im gonna use my tamer and even the odds so whats so wrong with that? The problem with pvp in general is ussually there is like one or two guys in a guild thats really good and than the rest are a bunch of clowns that cant pvp out of a wet paper bag. And than they try to gank you all the time but yet instalogging pets is such a big deal?
Btw im not talking about anyone in particular im just talking about it in a general sense from my perspective i dont really see a problem with it.
Its not an abuse of the game mechanics either, its not like your cheating your just getting your pets back if you die, honestly i havent even had to use it in a long time but i dont see a problem with it. What do you want everyone running around pvping on ethys? Lol because that kind of change will effect everyone not just tamers, from faction horses to swamp dragons ect.

 

[Lord Frodo]

I've read through roughly half of the posts in this thread and it seems that people are not connecting with the OP... All this talk about PvMers not wanting stat loss in PvM scenarios is completely off topic.

Give pets used in Fel the flagging system as stated by several posters. If you used your pet to flag someone in the battlefield, they will be in the heat of battle until sufficient time has passed to say otherwise. Keep it to Player Flagging only. This way tamers can still hunt in Fel and can still abuse insta-logging if they are the ones flagged while hunting.

When was the last time UO did a "fix" for PvP that did not affect PvM, NEVER. This will happen to all of UO, not just PvP.

 

[SevenFaith]

You can res your own faction horse so it won't affect those at all.

I also do not understand the ethy argument. You can get a tamer to res your swamp/whatever. That's part of what a tamer's kit offers, right? Start making friends with tamers, start building back the pet ressing community.

For the PvP in tram argument, implement player flagging rules across the whole game for your pet. Heat of battle on the pet? Pet won't auto stable while you log off until the heat from the player flagged has gone.

When was the last time UO did a "fix" for PvP that did not affect PvM, NEVER. This will happen to all of UO, not just PvP.

These changes are proposed to only affect PvP. Stop living in the past and try to move forward and SOLVE problems instead of reaching a conclusion of close-mindedness. By definition, the proposed PLAYER FLAGGING ONLY change would in no way disturb PvM. PLAYER and MONSTER are two different things. If you didn't flag the player, you have no problem. If you're the one who flagged the player then you brought it upon yourself to commit to the fight, win or lose, including your pet's life.

 

[kaio]

Greifing a dead tamers pet?
And then people are wondering why there arent comming new people to felluca...
.....

 

[Lord Frodo]

These changes are proposed to only affect PvP. Stop living in the past and try to move forward and SOLVE problems instead of reaching a conclusion of close-mindedness. By definition, the proposed PLAYER FLAGGING ONLY change would in no way disturb PvM. PLAYER and MONSTER are two different things. If you didn't flag the player, you have no problem. If you're the one who flagged the player then you brought it upon yourself to commit to the fight, win or lose, including your pet's life.

LOL EVERY PvP change has always affected PvM and you think that this is the MAGIC ONE that will not.

 

[Picus at the office]

Greifing a dead tamers pet?
And then people are wondering why there arent comming new people to felluca...
.....

I don't think people who are posting here play the PvP game. Yes the pet dies, it has to. You want to bring the thing to the fight where the downside is it might die and lose some minor skill points. The only thing that I can do it kill the pet and wait for you to res and attempt to bola or dismount me. It's not a hard concept to understand and it's part of the game. If the pet is still agro'd it will still kill my char be a dead tamer or not so the only solution is to take it out of the picture.

Stop trolling this thread just to annoy the PvP crowd people, you are just making yourself look like fools and you know it.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Greifing a dead tamers pet?
And then people are wondering why there arent comming new people to felluca...
.....

Griefing?

So at a large spawn/group fight everybody and everything should be able to be killed except tamed pets? The tamer just logs out/in and grabs a quick rezz and his pet is back in the fight full force instantly? Lol at that logic.

How about the reality should be that if I kill a tamer and his pet and then loot the tamers bandages he is rightfully screwed until he finds more bandages to rezz his dead pet. My warrior surely needs bandages after he is killed/looted.
But this isnt even a correct scenario possibility as we all know that pvp tamers are abusing their template by not even having the need for vet/bandages simply for no other reason then they are constantly logging in/out.

 

[SevenFaith]

LOL EVERY PvP change has always affected PvM and you think that this is the MAGIC ONE that will not.

It's like talking to a brick wall... None of your posts offer any sort of constructiveness so I'll just disregard them from now on. I don't think you're even reading past the first word of any posts, if even that far.

 

[LordDrago]

I see no reason why instalog of pets could not be removed, as long as it did not result in the lost pet bug returning.​

​

The instalog was a "bug fix" for a very devastating bug to the tamer (and really any pet owner) community. Something needed to be done and instalog was what was done. Working with the archaic and built upon (and built upon, and built upon, etc.) UO code, I am not certain what a different answer could have been, which would have resolved the lost pet bug issue without giving pet owners the ability to instalog their pets to save them from death.​

 

[Lord Frodo]

It's like talking to a brick wall... None of your posts offer any sort of constructiveness so I'll just disregard them from now on. I don't think you're even reading past the first word of any posts, if even that far.

And you are totally clueless that this will not affect PvM so get over yourself.

 

[Orgional Farimir]

The lesson in this thread is if it is a "bug" that is used/abused often then it isn't a "real bug" and it doesn't need fixed.

 

[Herman]

Pet mechanics have been broken for many many years.
Particularly the flagging rules and how a green pet goes blue,

I was told this was put in to prevent tamers from farming afk so it work like intended but i agree it sucks

 

[Herman]

I m not sure a timer would be the best way or even fair to the tamers

what will happen is people will lead away the pet to make sure the tamer can not come back to the spot and res or find his pet and continue fighting he have to wait out the timer before he can get back fighting
So this is just a stat loss for tamers and we all know that everybody like stat loss do we

And all tamers have some way of healing themselves so after death they are in the same situation like warriors or mages

and to say tamers have to have vet is not a valid argument either vet = support skill

tamers taming/ animal lore
mages magery/eval
warrior sword/tactics

So in my opinion if I only want to make it fair for all pets need to auto stable the moment the tamer dies and loose skill over time warriors can not fight after death and theire wep loose durability
But i have a feeling that would not sit well with the OP after all it is the pet he realy want to kill


Other than that i think making things too fair or similar can only make this game boring

 

[Orgional Farimir]

So in my opinion if I only want to make it fair for all pets need to auto stable the moment the tamer dies and loose skill over time warriors can not fight after death and theire wep loose durability

This could be interesting. A pet's skill decreases as it gets older. Seems logical.

 

[Lord Frodo]

The lesson in this thread is if it is a "bug" that is used/abused often then it isn't a "real bug" and it doesn't need fixed.

Auto-Stable is not a BUG it is a fix to a real bug from 2005 that could never be found by the DEVs

 

[Wenchkin]

I m not sure a timer would be the best way or even fair to the tamers

In UO players can die and so can pets. Both can be resurrected. If players were able to abuse logging out so they didn't die, it would be fixed by now. It is not fair that players can effectively exploit logging out so their pet doesn't die. I think it's perfectly fair to stay logged in and accept the consequences if I take on too much for my pets to handle. Before tamers figured out about the log out exploit, they just got on with it. It's only more recently that some have grown used to keeping this exploit at their disposal. And feel entitled to keep it. They're not. Sorry, but pets have no right to be immune to death, just as players don't. Devs didn't code pet bonding and skill loss with the intention that you skipped it all with a log out. Those were intended consequences.

what will happen is people will lead away the pet to make sure the tamer can not come back to the spot and res or find his pet and continue fighting he have to wait out the timer before he can get back fighting
So this is just a stat loss for tamers and we all know that everybody like stat loss do we

This is one of the tactics a tamer MUST just accept when they fight with pets in Fel. It is as old as taming itself. We simply can't pad tamers into cotton wool so their Fel experience is more comfortable than everyone else's.

As has been pointed out before, your pet will turn passive after a bit and if you haven't found them, you can play log out again and get them back. So all you are being asked to do is spend a few minutes looking for your pet first. You can lure away non tamer's swampies if it makes you feel better

All I do when I die is get a rez, find my body then find my pets. If there are PvPers still around then I do that carefully, but there's a limit to how far a player can take your pet. Not like ye old days when a gate would land before it and you never saw it again.

and to say tamers have to have vet is not a valid argument either vet = support skill

Nobody is forcing you to have vet. But if you choose to remove it, then you need to accept that it will inconvenience you if a pet dies. Your choice. I've had plenty of tamers give me looks because I stuck with keeping vet skill while they used logging out and magery instead. Logging out shouldn't be part of your template. If you think it's fair to replace a skill with logging out, I may have bad news for you.

tamers taming/ animal lore
mages magery/eval
warrior sword/tactics

The day I meet a deadly 2 skill mage or warrior, I'll listen to your logic. Truth is, warriors and mages have full templates and use a lot more than 2 skills Also, there is not a law that says taming must be the same as any other class in any way.

So in my opinion if I only want to make it fair for all pets need to auto stable the moment the tamer dies and loose skill over time warriors can not fight after death and theire wep loose durability
But i have a feeling that would not sit well with the OP after all it is the pet he realy want to kill


Other than that i think making things too fair or similar can only make this game boring

No. All that needs to change is fixing with is quite obviously an exploit which has been active for far far too long. If anyone whisks my pets into a stable the minute I die I am going to want to castrate them without anaesthetic. Twice! Keep that carebear crap out of the game, never mind out of Fel. No messing about coding pets to lose skill over time, just fix this exploit. Tamers just need to accept life without cotton wool.

And that fix must apply to Tram as well as Fel. Logging out to stop a pet dying is an exploit, and it needs to be treated as such regardless of facet/situation. Yes, I have used the E word because the more this thread has gone on, the more obvious it has been that this needs to be taken seriously and fixed. I knew it was happening, but wow. No wonder I can't solo stuff as easily as my fellow tamer, I'm not logging out enough!!! LMAO.

I'm sorry if some of you think oh Wenchy's being evil to her fellow tamers, but I play the same as I have for many years, logged in. I'm getting sick and tired of players thinking they are entitled to exploit logging out because they're tamers. You are not any more important or special than other classes. You are not victims of griefers when your pets die in PvP and it's time you at least tried to stay in game for a whole fight. Then you may be taken a bit more seriously in game and in PvP. Until then, it's no wonder PvPers don't think much of you. I'm kinda disappointed myself.

Wenchy

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Auto-Stable is not a BUG it is a fix to a real bug from 2005 that could never be found by the DEVs

Auto-Stable is currently an extremely flawed and widely abused game mechanic.

Doing nothing other then correcting people for not stating it correctly is petty semantics and adds nothing to the thread imo

 

[kaio]

Griefing?

So at a large spawn/group fight everybody and everything should be able to be killed except tamed pets? The tamer just logs out/in and grabs a quick rezz and his pet is back in the fight full force instantly? Lol at that logic.

How about the reality should be that if I kill a tamer and his pet and then loot the tamers bandages he is rightfully screwed until he finds more bandages to rezz his dead pet. My warrior surely needs bandages after he is killed/looted.
But this isnt even a correct scenario possibility as we all know that pvp tamers are abusing their template by not even having the need for vet/bandages simply for no other reason then they are constantly logging in/out.

Keep it on track m8.. (Your'e words dosen't mean more because you LOL this or that, it makes you look like a fool,keep it clean..)
Noone talked about a large spawn group or anything.. (You are misleading people...stop that)
The subject was/is about, if you killed the tamer, you should be able to kill his pet. And that the tamer should't be able to autostable his pet.
Taking a tamers bandies after you kill him, and his pet, is not really intresting in this context.

As others have stated, when the tamer is dead, his pet is defenceless, due to the way the AI work.
It _is_ greifing using this "bad" AI design.

So i still say that my statement holds true..

 

[Picus of Napa]

Keep it on track m8.. (Your'e words dosen't mean more because you LOL this or that, it makes you look like a fool,keep it clean..)
Noone talked about a large spawn group or anything.. (You are misleading people...stop that)
The subject was/is about, if you killed the tamer, you should be able to kill his pet. And that the tamer should't be able to autostable his pet.
Taking a tamers bandies after you kill him, and his pet, is not really intresting in this context.

As others have stated, when the tamer is dead, his pet is defenceless, due to the way the AI work.
It _is_ greifing using this "bad" AI design.

So i still say that my statement holds true..

I'm sure that everyone who has fought at the gate can recall a few times where either themselves or a guild member has died to a pet after the tamer died first. There are lots of times when you can see the tamer watching their pet's life and timing the log out, it happens all the time.