DCI CAP CLARIFICATION PATCH 81

[KLOMP]

Yes and No.

Look, Bleak, I'm a hardcore forum nerd. I'm the guy who sat down and did the math by hand to figure out the actual change in the probability of being hit at 95 DCI versus 45 because the Stratics calculator wouldn't go that high, then figured out the odds of being hit twice in a row at each DCI level, and the percentage difference between each. I like this kind of stuff, and you are losing me. If you are losing me and Cetric, the hardcore forum nerd math types, then you are losing the audience period.

There is a line beyond which things become too complicated and you guys have been ROCKETING OVER IT BY MILES from the start of this debacle.

 

[Quickblade]

PVM is going to be very interesting with this change. At 95% DCI it would seem almost like god mode. Even if jacking up my dci drops my resists from the armor down to zero I'm still going to be unstoppable pvm wise. I would just jack my resist to 120 and get the 40 resists from that (not sure if that's accurate please correct if wrong). Then just spam feint. Even if the critter would hit me for 200 points naked I'd still only be hit for 60 HP. Up my HP to about 130 and that allows me take 2 hits in a row. What are the chances of my sampire getting hit 3 times in a row without me leeching life from it at 95% DCI?

not sure what you mean on your resists part but they said it was going to drop Max resist thats the cap from 70 to ?? they didnt give numbers about the drop of max resist for armor refinements.

 

[Bleak]

Thank you for the walkthrough and examples. If you eliminate over capping of DCI, you will always get Case #2. Player A will be superior to Player B, regarding HLD. It makes sense and should be that way. Player A refined his armor at the cost of an unknow value of resists. HLD will always have some effect. Please keep Case #2.

As it stands now, we have many Player Bs from Case #1. HLD has no effect on them. There should be no way to eliminate an ability, only ways to reduce its effects. Please get rid of Case #1.

Stayin Alive,

BG

In order to remove Case#1 HLD would have to affect both the Max DCI cap and DCI.
Player A with 45 Max DCI and 70 DCI would be reduced to 25 Max DCI cap and 45 DCI.
Player A with 45 Max DCI and 0 DCI would be reduced to 25 Max DCI cap and -25 DCI.

 

[KLOMP]

We're stuck in this loop where some of us think they're raising the DCI cap to compensate for the altered HLD, and some of us think they changed HLD to compensate for the increased DCI cap. But if you step back and look at the entire mess as a whole, it's not at all clear WTF the point was in the first place. Everyone sitting around at 70/45 DCI stays the same as they are, but if you go get some Refinements you can fart around making yourself mage-bait and being even worse off once someone slaps you with HLD.

What is the development objective here?

 

[Merus]

I think the proposed changes are fine. Those those that do not use any refinements the system for DCI and HLD work exactly as they do now. For those that choose to up their DCI cap gain a benefit against those who do not use HLD, but have to compensate with additional DCI if they want to maintain their advantage against someone who uses HLD. Seems find to me.

I do think there should be something to ensure that HLD remains relevant to PvM, but think the proposed change would be fine for PvP... if you dont like the change just dont raies your DCI cap and you can continue to be HLD proof at 70 DCI.

 

[Quickblade]

I think overall , Bleak's formula isnt bad, but armor refinements should not only provide a bonus to DCI cap but also to actual DCI. Because I mean having 95% dci on a suit need alot of sacrifice and the formula is penalizing too much as we can see. So lets say if you refine your armor to get to 95% dci cap it should provide a 25% bonus to dci also. They said there was how many level of armor refinement 7? Well provide a bonus % to dci scaling on each level of refinement as well with a boost to dci cap !

So what I suggest for the Armor revamp Phase 2 (Armor refinement) is :
All the same as actual but add a bonus to dci scaling on each level as follow and it stacks :
-level 1 refinement : + 1 dci
-level 2 refinement : + 2 dci
-level 3 refinement : + 3 dci
-level 4 refinement : + 4 dci
-level 5 refinement : + 4 dci
-level 6 refinement : + 5 dci
-level 7 refinement : + 6 dci
for a total of ...........+25 dci if your ''invulnerability'' refined on your armor. ITs already very hard to hit 70 DCI on a suit so that +25 DCI will help to reach the full DCI cap without sacrificing too much on the suit. Dont forget the armor refinement to increase dci cap will lower the cap for resistances and they didnt give numbers about that yet.

 

[Fridgster]

not sure what you mean on your resists part but they said it was going to drop Max resist thats the cap from 70 to ?? they didnt give numbers about the drop of max resist for armor refinements.

Ah ok the cap is adjusted, not the actual armor resist numbers. I thought that resisting spells gave you 40 resist points minimum across the board. But if its the cap that is adjusted then that wont (or shouldn't) come into play. For PVM you would have to drop that resist cap awful low.

 

[chise2]

They just will NOT stop overreaching. Look devs, here is all you actually need to do:

* Keep the thing where nonmed armor reduces stamina loss.

* Give nonmed armor a bonus to max imbuing weight.

* Give dragon armor real resists.

* Make the slowest weapons 3.5s and scale down from there, damage balanced accordingly.

* Two-handers do more damage and have much higher max imbuing weight.

* If you want to make HLD more important, make it decrease DCI by 25 points or 50%, whichever is greater. Then it's still good in PVM. If you're not trying to buff the importance of HLD then LEAVE IT ALONE.

Bam done. Finished. Complete. People wear nonmed again sometimes, dragon armor becomes useful, slow weapons become useful, two-handers become useful, and nobody needs to become a mathematician. Why are you making this so much more complex than it needs to be???

Yeah this makes much more sense! Though to be honest I am hoping they keep the lmc thing and just let it go over cap. Mainly because increasing max imbuing weight on armor does nothing for me *and I guess anyone else who doesn;t max out their suits to save money or whatever* unless they let it have another property which I donlt think would be a good idea balance wise. I think the refinement idea could maybe work but it needs some serious work and as it is right now they should just drop the whole raise your dci cap thing. The whole raise your resist cap could work but I need to know more about how that will work first.

 

[KLOMP]

I think the proposed changes are fine. Those those that do not use any refinements the system for DCI and HLD work exactly as they do now. For those that choose to up their DCI cap gain a benefit against those who do not use HLD, but have to compensate with additional DCI if they want to maintain their advantage against someone who uses HLD. Seems find to me.

Dexers who don't use HLD don't exist. You basically just wrote: "Those that choose to up their DCI cap gain a benefit against ABSOLUTELY NO ONE, but have to compensate with additional DCI if they want to maintain their advantage against ANYONE. Seems find to me."

 

[Orgional Farimir]

Yes and No.

Pub 81 Case 1:
Player A has 75 Max DCI from Armor Refinement and has 75 DCI.
Player B has 45 Max DCI and has 75 DCI.
Both players have equal skill and HCI.

Player B if hit with HLD will remain at 45 DCI due to over cap while Player A will be reduced to 34DCI.
Player B by over capping wins in this case versus HLD but Player A benefits from the fact that they are able to reach 70% DCI.
Player A while not under the effects of HLD is receiving a 9% defense increase over Player B.(Total Hit Chance)

Pub 81 Case 2:
Player A has 75 Max DCI from Armor Refinement and has 75 DCI.
Player B has 45 Max DCI and has 45 DCI.
Both players have equal skill and HCI.

Player B if hit with HLD will be reduced to 20 DCI while Player A will be reduced to 34DCI.
Since there is no over capping Player A is the clear winner: 20 DCI vs 34DCI
Player A while not under the effects of HLD is still is receiving a 9% defense increase over Player B.(Total Hit Chance)
Player A while under the effects of HLD is still is receiving a 6% defense increase over Player B.(Total Hit Chance)

Now what happens to DCI if I made the armor with a half moon out at 1:24 AM, while standing on one foot, and PvPing with a fever of 102.4 and listening to country music?

 

[Quickblade]

I think the proposed changes are fine. Those those that do not use any refinements the system for DCI and HLD work exactly as they do now. For those that choose to up their DCI cap gain a benefit against those who do not use HLD, but have to compensate with additional DCI if they want to maintain their advantage against someone who uses HLD. Seems find to me.

I do think there should be something to ensure that HLD remains relevant to PvM, but think the proposed change would be fine for PvP... if you dont like the change just dont raies your DCI cap and you can continue to be HLD proof at 70 DCI.

Raising the dci cap with armor refinement already involve a penalty which is lowering max resistances cap, not sure if they were talking about 1 resist being dropped its cap or all( if bleak could come give us some number about that would be awesome).
Also you have to meet the dci cap which is another kind of penalty because you have to sacrifice other mods. And now the more dci cap you add on your character the more dci they want us to loose with HLD that everyone use in pvp, this is called 'increasing bad returns'' instead of 'diminushing returns'' ? (lol)
I repeat if Bleak can see this, the amor refinement for dci cap need also a bonus of 25% to actual dci scaling on the seven levels + the boost to the cap.

 

[KLOMP]

Yeah this makes much more sense! Though to be honest I am hoping they keep the lmc thing and just let it go over cap. Mainly because increasing max imbuing weight on armor does nothing for me *and I guess anyone else who doesn;t max out their suits to save money or whatever* unless they let it have another property which I donlt think would be a good idea balance wise. I think the refinement idea could maybe work but it needs some serious work and as it is right now they should just drop the whole raise your dci cap thing. The whole raise your resist cap could work but I need to know more about how that will work first.

Thank you for your feedback on Klomp's Alternate Universe Non-Insane Patch notes. As a result of your feedback, rather than giving nonmed a straight imbuing bonus, we are considering adding a new system called Armor Refinements. There will be two types.

One type will allow a piece of nonmed armor to have +100 imbuing weight.
The other type will allow a piece of nonmed armor to have +1 imbued property.

However, an item will only be able to have one of these Refinements, never both. Therefore you will have to choose between being able to take properties higher, or having one more property but needing to stretch your imbuing points very thin.

We eagerly await further feedback, and especially appreciate the part where no one said "Why are you doing this to us?" or "This is confusing garbage!"

 

[Merus]

Dexers who don't use HLD don't exist. You basically just wrote: "Those that choose to up their DCI cap gain a benefit against ABSOLUTELY NO ONE, but have to compensate with additional DCI if they want to maintain their advantage against ANYONE. Seems find to me."

I have seen plenty of dexxers who run around without HLD because most people run around with 70 DCI... they have chosen not to waste a property on something that provided no benefit.

 

[chise2]

Thank you for your feedback on Klomp's Alternate Universe Non-Insane Patch notes. As a result of your feedback, rather than giving nonmed a straight imbuing bonus, we are considering adding a new system called Armor Refinements. There will be two types.

One type will allow a piece of nonmed armor to have +100 imbuing weight.
The other type will allow a piece of nonmed armor to have +1 imbued property.

However, an item will only be able to have one of these Refinements, never both. Therefore you will have to choose between being able to take properties higher, or having one more property but needing to stretch your imbuing points very thin.

We eagerly await further feedback, and especially appreciate the part where no one said "Why are you doing this to us?" or "This is confusing garbage!"

lol! yeah I seriously hope they listen to reason though. Hopefully at the very least we can get through to them that this dci cap/hld change is crap.

 

[Merus]

Who cares? They'll all be using it now.

So? Keep your 45 cap and 70 dci and you will be the same as always.

 

[Cetric]

I think id rather deal with no stam pots than have to understand the refinements... or have to teach them to someone else that doesn't stare at stratics for 2 hours figuring it out themselves.

I'd rather see refinements in armor do things like woodland enhancing does, or like KLOMP suggests where nonmed armor could have 600 imbuing cap. Altering caps and such is going to get overly confusing and something i'd hate to even bother with. The next publish people would be demanding for a way to raise your HCI cap at a cost to resist to compensate for the people with overcapped dci, and it will turn into a big fricken mess. Sure that guy with 55dci might be hurt if he isn't heavily overcapped and gets hit with hld... but what about before he gets hit with HLD. I'm looking at my parry mage thinking god, if he had 55dci...wow. Dexers complain about parry now, just wait until you run across that guy that is heavily overcapped and has parry with 55dci lol. Atleast parry is a skill, don't make the mod have even more boost potential.


Bring on the better damage to speed ratios of heavy and two handed weapons though... please..

 

[KLOMP]

So? Keep your 45 cap and 70 dci and you will be the same as always.

So what was the point then? Now we've got this horrible system where you stack 70 or 80 or 95 DCI onto a suit, but don't you dare think of raising your cap high enough to "use" all of it. The purpose of DCI is no longer to make you get hit less, but to cheat the system by keeping your cap low and stacking over it.

Also, unless the resist penalty is tiny, nobody is going to even touch this system in PVP because mages will blow them away. But if the resist penalty is tiny, every PVM sampire is just going to crank their DCI through the roof and laugh as they become uber.

 

[chise2]

I think id rather deal with no stam pots than have to understand the refinements... or have to teach them to someone else that doesn't stare at stratics for 2 hours figuring it out themselves.

I'd rather see refinements in armor do things like woodland enhancing does, or like KLOMP suggests where nonmed armor could have 600 imbuing cap. Altering caps and such is going to get overly confusing and something i'd hate to even bother with. The next publish people would be demanding for a way to raise your HCI cap at a cost to resist to compensate for the people with overcapped dci, and it will turn into a big fricken mess. Sure that guy with 55dci might be hurt if he isn't heavily overcapped and gets hit with hld... but what about before he gets hit with HLD. I'm looking at my parry mage thinking god, if he had 55dci...wow. Dexers complain about parry now, just wait until you run across that guy that is heavily overcapped and has parry with 55dci lol. Atleast parry is a skill, don't make the mod have even more boost potential.


Bring on the better damage to speed ratios of heavy and two handed weapons though... please..

Yeah I thought refinements were going to be more like what you suggested. Or maybe something like allowing us to add certain properties on armor that I think you can only get from loot now. Like hci on armor I think that is loot only though I could be wrong.

 

[KLOMP]

Man I like my system more the more I look at it. Notice how there's no real incentive to imbue Mage Armor onto nonmed armor. I mean you can do it if you really want to, and it'll work, and more power to you, but you're just giving up imbuing space for stamina protection that doesn't even matter much to a caster.

Thus there is no need to go "Mage Armor counts as leather now, whoops we just nerfed every dexer artifact with Mage Armor listed on it!" like they're doing now with the current proposal.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

Yes and No.

Pub 81 Case 1:
Player A has 75 Max DCI from Armor Refinement and has 75 DCI.
Player B has 45 Max DCI and has 75 DCI.
Both players have equal skill and HCI.

Player B if hit with HLD will remain at 45 DCI due to over cap while Player A will be reduced to 34DCI.
Player B by over capping wins in this case versus HLD but Player A benefits from the fact that they are able to reach 70% DCI.
Player A while not under the effects of HLD is receiving a 9% defense increase over Player B.(Total Hit Chance)

Pub 81 Case 2:
Player A has 75 Max DCI from Armor Refinement and has 75 DCI.
Player B has 45 Max DCI and has 45 DCI.
Both players have equal skill and HCI.

Player B if hit with HLD will be reduced to 20 DCI while Player A will be reduced to 34DCI.
Since there is no over capping Player A is the clear winner: 20 DCI vs 34DCI
Player A while not under the effects of HLD is still is receiving a 9% defense increase over Player B.(Total Hit Chance)
Player A while under the effects of HLD is still is receiving a 6% defense increase over Player B.(Total Hit Chance)

Now I understand completely why I play a caster. This example doesn't make any bloody sense at all. In your Case 1, how does the ability to reach 70% DCI come out of having 75 Max and sitting at 75 DCI at the start, prior to HLD?

I'm a fan of complexity, but complexity that actually makes sense.

 

[Merus]

So what was the point then? Now we've got this horrible system where you stack 70 or 80 or 95 DCI onto a suit, but don't you dare think of raising your cap high enough to "use" all of it. The purpose of DCI is no longer to make you get hit less, but to cheat the system by keeping your cap low and stacking over it.

Also, unless the resist penalty is tiny, nobody is going to even touch this system in PVP because mages will blow them away. But if the resist penalty is tiny, every PVM sampire is just going to crank their DCI through the roof and laugh as they become uber.

IMO the point is, if they are going to provide a way to raise your DCI cap, there needs to be a way to counter it. With a flat number that it simply not possible. Can you imagine if they allowed a way to boost your DCI cap and left the HLD at a flat 25 points? GL hitting anyone with parry running 95 DCI even with your HLD.

Personally, I am not in favor of most of this patch. I say make all the top end armors equal in base resists (Barbed, Frostwood, Valorite) and give each something special to enhance with like wood does now. Then get ride of the med penatly all together. All armor will be equal with a small bonus based on the matierial you enhance with to boost over the imbuing cap. Easy, Balanced, Done!

 

[Kage]

You people are all crazy. No good pvper runs 70 DCI now we all run 45 DCI so if this change does go through my DCI will actually increase by .5

But yes It's a great change!!!

 

[Barry Gibb]

In order to remove Case#1 HLD would have to affect both the Max DCI cap and DCI.
Player A with 45 Max DCI and 70 DCI would be reduced to 25 Max DCI cap and 45 DCI.
Player A with 45 Max DCI and 0 DCI would be reduced to 25 Max DCI cap and -25 DCI.

Why not make HLD work just off the target's effective DCI, upto but not beyond their Max DCI cap? It does not have to affect the Max DCI cap, just ignore DCI values above the player Max DCI cap and treat them as the same value as the cap.

Bear with me, as I don't know how fractions are treated in the calculations.

Player C with 45 Max DCI and 35 DCI would be reduced to 19.25 DCI (=35*0.45), (Actual DCI < Max Cap).
Player C with 45 Max DCI and 45 DCI would be reduced to 24.75 DCI (=45*0.45), (Actual DCI = Max Cap).
Player C with 70 Max DCI and 70 DCI would be reduced to 38.50 DCI (=70*0.45), (Actual DCI = Max Cap).
Player C with 45 Max DCI and 70 DCI would be reduced to 24.75 DCI, (=45*0.45), (Actual DCI > Max Cap).

The HLD effect will always have an effect, since it cannot be negated through over-capping (this is an easy way to boost weapons for the revamp).

This will always award the player that traded off their resists for increased DCI. There will never be a scenario, such as Case #1, which gives greater benefit to those who have less. This is the sticking point for me. This scenario is counter intuitive and adds unnecessary complexity. It allows a player to bypass the trade-off for the new armor reinforcements. A player will need to use armor reinforcements AND DCI properties to raise their Max Cap AND actual DCI to 80 (80*0.45=44.00), in order to maintain the same 45 DCI through HLD provided by overcapping and not using armor enhancements. The player using armor reinforcements will also incur resist penalties, where as the over-capped player would not, which further reinforces the case in which which gives greater benefit to those who have less.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[KLOMP]

I'm sure they don't want to nerf peoples existing DCI setups, which makes me wonder why they're bothering at all.

 

[DJAd]

 

[DJAd]

Personally, I am not in favor of most of this patch. I say make all the top end armors equal in base resists (Barbed, Frostwood, Valorite) and give each something special to enhance with like wood does now. Then get ride of the med penatly all together. All armor will be equal with a small bonus based on the matierial you enhance with to boost over the imbuing cap. Easy, Balanced, Done!

Word!

 

[puni666]

We will see when it comes to test center. The 95 DCI for HLD is just to much. That totally nerfs the need for HLD. As if the rng wasn't enough of a problem.

Now I agree that mages in PvP should have a better way to defend vs dexers in the field, but this should come with the addition of skills on top of the current system.
The removal of tactics for special moves which would give mages more options such as better disarm and counters with the addition if applied Parry would be preferable over a itme based system. This way at least they invest skill points. I would even forgo the 80 dex requirement than the 95 DCI.

This is the answer...

Weapon Special Move Mana Cost Changes

• Bladeweave mana cost decreased from 30 to 15.

BALANCE AQUIRED!

 

[puni666]

Yes and No.

Pub 81 Case 1:
Player A has 75 Max DCI from Armor Refinement and has 75 DCI.
Player B has 45 Max DCI and has 75 DCI.
Both players have equal skill and HCI.

Player B if hit with HLD will remain at 45 DCI due to over cap while Player A will be reduced to 34DCI.
Player B by over capping wins in this case versus HLD but Player A benefits from the fact that they are able to reach 70% DCI.
Player A while not under the effects of HLD is receiving a 9% defense increase over Player B.(Total Hit Chance)

Pub 81 Case 2:
Player A has 75 Max DCI from Armor Refinement and has 75 DCI.
Player B has 45 Max DCI and has 45 DCI.
Both players have equal skill and HCI.

Player B if hit with HLD will be reduced to 20 DCI while Player A will be reduced to 34DCI.
Since there is no over capping Player A is the clear winner: 20 DCI vs 34DCI
Player A while not under the effects of HLD is still is receiving a 9% defense increase over Player B.(Total Hit Chance)
Player A while under the effects of HLD is still is receiving a 6% defense increase over Player B.(Total Hit Chance)

You expect to attract new players with this complex logic how? DCI works like this one way or this way with refinement. Mortal Strike works like this, but you can't chain it unless you wait 3.4 seconds UNLESS they use an apple then you immediately reapply or it bugs out and you have to wait 30 seconds. Your animal went wild because when the server crashed you dismounted it for a second and you waited till server down to log back in to make it happy. How much miscellaneous nonsense that isn't definitively described in the game itself can you throw at us?!?

 

[Sauteed Onion]

I hate to detract from this thread with something completely abstract to the issues expressed here, but this appears to be becoming one of the various systems pertaining to 1 thing type situations. Let me explain in Trammel "loot" grinder logic.

If you go and kill Medusa most of the stuff that you probably sought her out for pop into your back pack. Medusa is a Peerless Boss Encounter.
If you go and kill Melisande most of the stuff that you probably sought her out for pops in HER loot window. Melisande is a Peerless Boss Encounter.
If you go and kill Doom Gauntlet Monsters the things you probably sought them out for are on a roulette system and when you finally score it's supposed to pop in your back pack. They are Neglected uh Boss Encounters.

Implementing the proposed armor refinement situations in the manner that it appears to be tossed in and saying

Here is the current implementation:

You will see no change from Pub 80 to Pub 81 if you wish to not use Armor Refinement.
Hope this answers your question.

is what pisses people off alot with UO. Things are just done haphazardly with the lowest common denominator in mind and specifically catered to (meaning the broadest possible audience in a game that is without broad audience), and hoping it draws in a broad audience and makes the people who are still playing the game enthralled even more with it's magic spell is ludicrous. If "You will see no change from Pub 80 to Pub 81 if you wish to not use Armor Refinement." is true, WHAT ARE YOU EVEN PUTTING IT IN THE GAME FOR? Yes, some things and some stuff needs to be done with "gear" in general. But is this the answer? Mindless abstract most likely meaningless adjustments made to cater to the lowest common denominator that do nothing but to further confuse and push this game into anarchistic states of inner complexity that no sane individual could hope to comprehend? For no reason? Devoid of benefit? I call b.s. Want some doritos and mountain dew?

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

This is a bad idea.

Think about it. The system right now is pretty complex. But basically everything, more of the property offers more benefit, until you get to a cap, or until the property maxxes out totally. 100% LRC, for example. Or, as an example of something with a cap, LMC caps out at 40%. DCI, nothing past 45 matters unless you get hit with Hit Lower Defense.

But either way the principle is the same: More is, to a point, better.

What happens under this new DCI/HLD system, and even under the new LMC system as well, is that there's times when more is less. And that, frankly, is just too much to ask of us, and I don't mean that to insult us.

In short: You over-reached. I have every confidence you will realize this and listen and modify accordingly. Various proposals have been advanced in this thread and the other.

-Galen's player

 

[Madrid]

I agree with much of the sentiment on the board that all this stuff is a bit too much and over the top.

The words "Cease and Desist" are the first words that come to my mind when I read about these changes.

With the exception of the Composite Bow mirroring the Soul Glaive I wish the entire publish 81 would just disappear forever.

 

[Cetric]

What happens under this new DCI/HLD system, and is that there's times when more is less. And that, frankly, is just too much to ask of us, and I don't mean that to insult us.

In short: You over-reached. I have every confidence you will realize this and listen and modify accordingly. Various proposals have been advanced in this thread and the other.

-Galen's player

​

 

[chise2]

This is a bad idea.

Think about it. The system right now is pretty complex. But basically everything, more of the property offers more benefit, until you get to a cap, or until the property maxxes out totally. 100% LRC, for example. Or, as an example of something with a cap, LMC caps out at 40%. DCI, nothing past 45 matters unless you get hit with Hit Lower Defense.

But either way the principle is the same: More is, to a point, better.

What happens under this new DCI/HLD system, and is that there's times when more is less. And that, frankly, is just too much to ask of us, and I don't mean that to insult us.

In short: You over-reached. I have every confidence you will realize this and listen and modify accordingly. Various proposals have been advanced in this thread and the other.

-Galen's player

Yeah I hope much like they listened to some other playerfeed they will listen this time too. There are much better proposals as you have indicated.

 

[KLOMP]

We really should have been having this conversation ages ago before anyone coded anything. They could have saved themselves so much work.

 

[chise2]

We really should have been having this conversation ages ago before anyone coded anything. They could have saved themselves so much work.

I agree they need to communicate major changes like this before they even start coding. Alot of them we could tell are bad ideas before it even hits test center lol!

 

[CovenantX]

What is the development objective here?

Maybe to make these useful...



....

Nope, NM Fey leggings are already better than them.

 

[virem]

This has to be the stupidest thing I have ever seen in 15 years of playing this game. There is no reason for any of this, the DCI cap should be FORTY FIVE, no matter what. God I hate this game so much.

 

[virem]

Hey Bleak, please bring back unkillable beserker suits and WOD archers -- at least I understood that stuff.

 

[spoonyd]

Yeah cut Virem a break already. He spends hrs in the laboratory making crazy suits. Lets not add more hrs to the required planning needed for good suits. The refinement is a cool idea but keep it simple. There are plenty of good ideas from ppl like Cetric for adding bonuses to current unused armor.

 

[DJAd]

Well whatever they do lets hope they make it all nice and clear and easy to understand so even a new player can figure it out.

I'd like to actually know what the dev's think is wrong themselves with regards to balancing weapons and armour etc.

If they told us before "We think XYZ needs changing, what do you the players think" I can understand.

It seems they decided to change things and not explain why they are being changed. This is what I don't understand.

 

[Barry Gibb]

We really should have been having this conversation ages ago before anyone coded anything. They could have saved themselves so much work.

I disagree. I have always found it is easier to come to the table with something to start the discussion, rather than start with "a blank sheet of paper". It is an easier/faster method of getting meaningful feedback, since it shows initiative and gives you discussion points to work from (less "spinning your wheels"). This is especially evident with complex/involved topics such as this. It eliminates alot of redundant work by people who have similar ideas (generally the majority).

I applaud the developers for starting this discussion. In the past, it never would have been done. Now to get back to the discussion.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Otis Leroy Funk]

I just want a discussion with devs as to why they thought we the players would embrace this overly complicated unasked for change to dci?!! Please do tell?!?

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I just want a discussion with devs as to why they thought we the players would embrace this overly complicated unasked for change to dci?!! Please do tell?!?

Nah, let's just explain it's not fun, let them change it, and move on.

-Galen's player

 

[TBH]

Bleak, I think the developers need to stop what they are doing with this armor/weapon patch and go PVP hardcore for 2 months. You and other developers admitted to me at the UO birthday party back in September that you do not seriously pvp, that needs to change ASAP. Put together a raiding crew and a spawning crew and visit various shards like Atlantic, Chesapeake, and the other shards that still have pvp. That way you can get a feel for how several different groups pvp and not just one small sample. Pop a few harrowers, do several fel dungeon spawns during prime time, do the primeval lich spawn 4 or 5 times in a row and learn how to pvm and pvp in real time etc. Try some spawns as regular players and then when that gets too easy, label yourselves as developers and challenge the shards to stop you. Then you can come back to the table with changes that improve PVP as opposed to changes that look good code wise.

I understand you may not have the time to play this game as much as you would like to but these types of changes demand you have a thorough understanding of how PVP works from a player's perspective and not only how it should work from a developer's perspective.

 

[Doubleplay]

This is getting crazy. I propose that in pvp areas, everyone should be able to design their suits around whatever the design scenario is for the month, day, year FOR FREE (no imbuing regs required and etc) . Since no one will be able to figure out all the possible combinations, pvp will still be exciting as different combos cycle thru the system. When somone finally finds the uber combination and becomes the king of pvp, the devs can change all the parameters for a new round of calculating nirvana. In non pvp areas, for gosh sakes, keep it simple and costly (so crafting, hunting and etc has a purpose). I venture to say that the majority of players do not have the inclination or time to spend dealing with the proposed complexity. I don't know what side most siege players would come down on, but suspect they would keep things the way they are.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Bleak, I think the developers need to stop what they are doing with this armor/weapon patch and go PVP hardcore for 2 months. Then you can come back to the table with changes that improve PVP instead of changes that "look good." You and other devs admitted to me at the UO Bday party back in September that you do not really pvp, that needs to change ASAP.

If it was known that the UO team PvPed imagine the whining whenever someone lost a fight. Imagine the rumors about how the team members were helping some guilds or that the team members were in those guilds. Indeed those rumors used to happen on LS all the time when I was an active PvPer on that shard, even as folks also said the team didn't PvP.

There was even at one point a semi-serious rumor that the shard had been reverted because a prominent PK guild had lost a Harrower. Most who said that were joking, but not all were.

Further, when there were team members who actively PvPed, people didn't believe them anyway. It was creepy, when the team member named Serado won a PvP competition, how many people claimed it had to have been rigged, even though no one who was actually at the competition thought this.

There is further no reasonable support for this odd narrative that it's "PvPers vs. these changes."

One of the most prominent critics of these changes, Klomp, is a self-described care bear. And I deliberately have avoided Fel and PvP in general for some months now and hope I continue to.

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I should also like to point out to everyone: These DCI/HLD are bad changes yes. But keep in mind how many, including prominent PvPers, supported them in principle until actual numbers were released. To me this means there's not universal agreement that the system shouldn't be touched at all. That's an important distinction to make.

And further: Yes, these are bad changes, but when we exaggerate how bad they are, as many are doing, we contribute to an atmosphere wherein making fine distinctions is difficult, and that hurts us, and the game, long-term. Not every bad idea is equally bad. There's game-breaking ideas (the initial draft of the stamina and armor changes), and there's ideas that are bad, there's ideas that hurt specific templates or playstyles that may not be bad objectively, there's ideas that are not bad per se but are just too much, etc. This stuff is just a bad idea. Not catastrophic. Just bad.

There's categories, there's levels, there's distinctions. Let's not flip the **** out over everything. Let's not cry the sky is falling when it's merely raining hard. Let's say the sky is falling when the sky is falling, and when it's just raining hard say it's raining hard.

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Talk about flipping out, 2 replies to my post? Wow, all I am asking for is self admitted non pvping developers to gain some perspective before they ram unnecessary changes down our throats, chill winston!

btw I was editing my original post while you were ranting Galen, please re-read.

There was nothing ranty about either of my posts. Further only one of my posts was a reply to you. The other was more-general.

Quite the ego to think both were directed at you. *chuckles* Very telling.

-Galen's player

 

[Lord Crowen]

Yes and No.

Pub 81 Case 1:
Player A has 75 Max DCI from Armor Refinement and has 75 DCI.
Player B has 45 Max DCI and has 75 DCI.
Both players have equal skill and HCI.

Player B if hit with HLD will remain at 45 DCI due to over cap while Player A will be reduced to 34DCI.
Player B by over capping wins in this case versus HLD but Player A benefits from the fact that they are able to reach 70% DCI.
Player A while not under the effects of HLD is receiving a 9% defense increase over Player B.(Total Hit Chance)

Pub 81 Case 2:
Player A has 75 Max DCI from Armor Refinement and has 75 DCI.
Player B has 45 Max DCI and has 45 DCI.
Both players have equal skill and HCI.

Player B if hit with HLD will be reduced to 20 DCI while Player A will be reduced to 34DCI.
Since there is no over capping Player A is the clear winner: 20 DCI vs 34DCI
Player A while not under the effects of HLD is still is receiving a 9% defense increase over Player B.(Total Hit Chance)
Player A while under the effects of HLD is still is receiving a 6% defense increase over Player B.(Total Hit Chance)

Bleak, you should ask yourself: "Do I program that stuff for me and others with a degree in math or programming, or do I program for the majority of the playerbase, for the majority of the paying customers, the guys who pay my salary?"

English isn't my first language, not even my second, so I'll leave the eloquent speaking and elaborate replys to the others, you got already enough text to read. Many thanks to posters like Klomp, you sum up my feelings nicely with your thought-out posts.

However, after spending about a day to read through all that posts related to that publish, I'm a bit sad. Sad about a missed opportunity after Cal left. I think our current dev team is so far apart from the game and its playerbase, I could cry. (To the board warriors: Keep your jokes about cheese and wine for yourself). That you even considered something like the mana phase and ssi debuff stuff... *shakes head*.

You're trying to keep us busy with quantity, not with quality. Your so-called bugsprint (sp?) was another prime example: An impressing number of glitches and bugs fixed, great! Its just... most of them are really unimportant. No one cares if The Redeemer can be used to skin animals, or if vendors can equip Faction Morph Earrings. Where is the fix for that age-old trade window bug who crashes us CC users nearly every time we dare to do a trade at a bank? Where is the fix for targeting (target next hostile)? Where is the fix for the not updating monster healthbars? After years you finally confirm that "bermuda-triangle-for-pets" bug, great! But, why did it years to do so? Hundreds of pages, bug reports, lost pets...

Where is a new "new player experience"? Have you ever played through that new player stuff? Get a friend, a relative, someone who never played UO or played it in its early years and let him go through the (useless) tutorial, watch him trying to get into the game. Record his moves. Discuss that with the team. Revamp the whole thing! And no, just giving them a check over 1mil isn't a good solution. A good and easy start would be disabling of the F1 Key. That "playguide" who pops up is a joke. Undo that Despise minigame. Don't add more useless mods like ephemeral.

Really, I wish you guys would fix that really annoying stuff before you mess with new things. And if you have to mess with new things, please make it easier, not more complicated. Yes, I'm all for making plate more useful. Actually, my sampires wear plate already, and they are doing great and looking great. So, why not just raise the imbuing cap on plate/studded/bone as others have suggested? Is that to easy for you? Where is the reason behind that complicated formulas? You don't have to impress us with your programming skills, you know We're already in awe that you are able to maintain that age old code, really. Personally, I wouldn't touch that code with a ten foot stick. That's your job.

But keeping in touch with the playerbase AND playing that game is your job too. And here you have a ballooning deficit. You guys do a lot, really a lot. But - is that what you're doing good for the game? Does it enhance our gameplay? Sometimes I think you have a quota to fill: Add x new things per month, whether they are good or needed is secondary.

Please, do a bit less. Add a bit less new stuff, BUT make sure its tested and needed/wanted! Fix a bit less bugs, BUT fix the really annoying ones! Make that complicated stuff a bit easier. Don't add a few new pages to my already big spreadsheets. I'm getting older, ya know!

In short, do more quality, not more quantity! You have a very loyal (and sometimes very passionate) playerbase to work with. Use it!

I wish you, Bleak, and the rest of your crew all the best and I hope i did not sound to harsh. I'm just trying to express my feelings in a foreign language, not always an easy thing to do.

Safe travels always,
Crowen

PS: And leave my maces alone! If you dare to touch the black staff or the war axe, I'll take a few days off work, book a flight and come to visit you at your office! With my trusted old black staff!

 

[Sauteed Onion]

Bleak, you should ask yourself: "Do I program that stuff for me and others with a degree in math or programming, or do I program for the majority of the playerbase, for the majority of the paying customers, the guys who pay my salary?"



You're trying to keep us busy with quantity, not with quality. Your so-called bugsprint (sp?) was another prime example: An impressing number of glitches and bugs fixed, great! Its just... most of them are really unimportant. No one cares if The Redeemer can be used to skin animals, or if vendors can equip Faction Morph Earrings. Where is the fix for that age-old trade window bug who crashes us CC users nearly every time we dare to do a trade at a bank? Where is the fix for targeting (target next hostile)? Where is the fix for the not updating monster healthbars? After years you finally confirm that "bermuda-triangle-for-pets" bug, great! But, why did it years to do so? Hundreds of pages, bug reports, lost pets...

Don't add more useless mods like ephemeral.


But keeping in touch with the playerbase AND playing that game is your job too. And here you have a ballooning deficit. You guys do a lot, really a lot. But - is that what you're doing good for the game? Does it enhance our gameplay?

Please, do a bit less. Add a bit less new stuff, BUT make sure its tested and needed/wanted! Fix a bit less bugs, BUT fix the really annoying ones! Make that complicated stuff a bit easier. Don't add a few new pages to my already big spreadsheets. I'm getting older, ya know!

In short, do more quality, not more quantity! You have a very loyal (and sometimes very passionate) playerbase to work with. Use it!