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PUBLISH 81.0 [WILL THIS PUBLISH RUIN PVP] POLL

WILL PUBLISH 81.0 RUIN PVP


  • Total voters
    100
  • Poll closed .

RaDian FlGith

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Whine are you friggin nuts, have you even bothered reading results, have you even taken your Warrior with thier current gear and tested this? WOW Just friggin WOW? There are no tweeks/adjustments to this, it is a throw away and start over PUB. And please show me where I threatened to quit over this. I think it is time to take your POM POMs and go cheerlead somewhere else. What you and Goodman working together to get this done so you can make loads of gold and $$$ replacing suits.
I guess I'm talking to a wall... if I were to take my warrior to Test Center, I WOULDN'T EXPECT TO USE THE SAME ARMOR.

I didn't say YOU said you were quitting, I said that the whole quitting over this pub stuff that was arising was stupid.

And yeah... seriously... I'm a pompom waver. Yep. Historically, I've never been anything but on the Dev Team's side. That's me. Clearly. *rolls eyes* How about instead of being a rude cuss and whining about change (yes, WHINING), you actually test to see what the game systems will become. Change is not bad. Whining over it is.
 

Lord Frodo

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
I guess I'm talking to a wall... if I were to take my warrior to Test Center, I WOULDN'T EXPECT TO USE THE SAME ARMOR.

I didn't say YOU said you were quitting, I said that the whole quitting over this pub stuff that was arising was stupid.

And yeah... seriously... I'm a pompom waver. Yep. Historically, I've never been anything but on the Dev Team's side. That's me. Clearly. *rolls eyes* How about instead of being a rude cuss and whining about change (yes, WHINING), you actually test to see what the game systems will become. Change is not bad. Whining over it is.
So you do not bother testing anything, you just come on here waving your POM POMs. Here are some clues on how bad this PUB is.
Mage Armor no matter what it is made of is treated like leather.
so
A Spellbinder casting spells on you will do MAX STAMINA DAMAGE.
2 Mud Pies doing very little to no damage will do MAX STAMINA DAMAGE

How about you stop being such a POM POM Cheerleading what ever you go test all your Warriors with thier current gear and see how much you have to replace. But to you it wouldn't matter because you will just get out your POM POMs and lead us all in a cheer.
 

KLOMP

Sage
Stratics Veteran
But it doesn't really throw out all of the current suits.
1) Make or copy a character to Test Center.

2) Put on any medable or tailor-crafted items you want.

3) Disarm and attack a couple of magpies or something.

4) Watch your stamina plummet as they peck you for 1 damage.

Players all across the UO spectrum, from PVPers wearing Mace & Shields and Gladiator Collars, to PVM dexers using leather suits and leafblades, to roleplayers wearing studded or bone, will find themselves rendered completely worthless until they throw all of their equipment away and start over from scratch. The most badass elite leather sampire suit in UO will become unsuitable for anything tougher than farming ettins.

Yeah leather caster suits might survive, but everything else will become clean-up points. I've been to Test Center, I've played with the publish, people aren't overreacting, and it really is a disaster. People who have invested heavily in their suits will be wiped out as thoroughly if someone hacked them and cleaned them out.

People wanted to be given a CHOICE. This publish doesn't do that, it just arbitrarily changes the monopoly from A to B and forces everyone to build completely new suits just to tread water. Imagine going into a restaurant.

Customer: "Waiter, your steak is great but your chicken sucks. I wish I could come in here and order chicken."
Waiter: "Gotcha, lemme just poison the steak. There, now you can order chicken."
Customer: "That's insane! Plus I already paid for this steak!"
Waiter: "Jeez did you want to see changes or not?"
Customer: "You know your clientele might just start staying home and ordering pizza instead."
Waiter: "God what babies."
 
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Lythos-

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Has anyone tried to farm essences on TC to see if it can even be done now?
 

RaDian FlGith

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Oy vey.

Clearly talking in circles here. In no specific order:

1) I wouldn't test my WARRIOR in meddable suits given the new rules.

2) If there is an issue with too much stamina being taken from things like birds and mongbats, PROVIDE THAT IN FEEDBACK. This isn't the final version of the publish. Give feedback that doesn't include the words "Fix this or I quit," or "Just scrub the whole idea." Is giving constructive feedback that damned difficult?

3) Obviously armor dynamics are going to change. That's the point of an armor revamp, isn't it?

4) Call me cheerleader all you want. At least I'm not providing useless, whiney feedback.
 
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Picus of Napa

Certifiable
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Oy vey.

Clearly talking in circles here. In no specific order:

1) I wouldn't test my WARRIOR in meddable suits given the new rules.

2) If there is an issue with too much stamina being taken from things like birds and mongbats, PROVIDE THAT IN FEEDBACK. This isn't the final version of the publish. Give feedback that doesn't include the words "Fix this or I quit," or "Just scrub the whole idea." Is giving constructive feedback that damned difficult?

3) Obviously armor dynamics are going to change. That's the point of an armor revamp, isn't it?

4) Call me cheerleader all you want. At least I'm not providing useless, whiney feedback.
The issue isn't so much testing stuff in new armor but the stuff we have is not up to the task anymore. I don't know what your suits look like but mine are/were end game stuff that I spent lots of time and effort getting which I'm not to keen upon losing. I did test my current armor and it does not work nearly to the same degree that it did before. No one should be punished for working inside the box only to have, without (IMO) need, the box change for unclear reasoning.

If the team could provide us with some context that this all makes sense I would still be flipping out but at least they have a side but as it stands it seems, again, like they don't have a clue what 90% of the player base is doing and why. Why screw with the feint when it provided such a clear in game use after 7+ years? The only logical answer I can come up with is they just don't have any idea what and how we play.

Again I'd love to see them play the game with the rest of us. Have you ever watched the video of the team "promoting" the game, it was shocking to say the least.
 

Lord Frodo

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
1) I wouldn't test my WARRIOR in meddable suits given the new rules.
Could you please show me where is says if it is meddable that it will be treated like leather armor?
Armor Revamp part 1

Player’s stamina loss will now be based on the type of armor as well as the amount of armor that is equipped*. Each piece of armor up to five pieces will reduce the amount of stamina lost when taking damage. The stamina loss protection provided is ranked as follows where 1 provides the best protection:
  • Blacksmith crafted armor (platemail, ringmail, chainmail, and dragon armor).
  • Carpentry crafted armor (woodland and stone armor).
  • Tailor crafted studded leather, hide, and bone armor.
  • Cloth, leather, and jewelry armor.
*Human racial ability Tough now provides a bonus to stamina loss protection.
Anything with the Mage Armor tag gives the same as if it is made of leather. TESTED AND PROVEN.
 

Lord Frodo

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
The issue isn't so much testing stuff in new armor but the stuff we have is not up to the task anymore.
Again I'd love to see them play the game with the rest of us. Have you ever watched the video of the team "promoting" the game, it was shocking to say the least.
QFT
 

KLOMP

Sage
Stratics Veteran
blah blah blah
Bottom line, people want non-med armor buffed into a viable choice, not medable armor stricken with catastrophic nerfs so that every dexer in UO has to throw out everything he owns. The latter was always going to ignite a ****storm.
 
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DJAd

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
A bad craftsman blames his tools. A bad warrior blames his armour.
 

TBH

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Those of you who say "suck it up" or " it won't make pvp worse, just adapt" do not understand how fragile the PVP community is. The decision to play UO and pvp is not in a vacuum, there are several other games that are aggressively chipping away at the player base.

In PvM as it stands, with the exception of Exodus, all content can be solo'd or dual cliented. Therefore if YOU decide to not log into UO because you are playing a different game, reading a book, watching tv, socializing in real life, etc., your guild or group of friends in game will not be prevented from accomplishing their goals that evening. It may take them a bit longer and they may not key up for an additional boss but the action packed night of PvM is not lost.

In the realm of PVP things are completely different. If there is not pvp to be had when players log into vent, they drift off into other games and activities. If your friends within the group or guild aren't playing, chances are you will look for something else to do too, you might start working on a new suit or weapon, you may go trammy for a while and farm or you might log off for the night. When PvP does eventually happen, out of boredom someone pops a harrower or there is a good fel idoc, the guild icq's everyone to get them back in the game to fight and all of a sudden its 2 am. Maybe 30% log back in. Over time people are noticing that they just don't pvp as much anymore because there is no pvp on their home shard and they don't feel like investing 300-400 million gold to remake their character on Atlantic "where the pvp is" so they eventually quit the game or go dormant for an extended period of time. Thanks to the factions being nuked, pvp has gone from several shards with active groups to a few skirmishes here and there and a few zergs on ATL depending on who is on. Lately with every change to pvp it seems we lose a few more players to "better things to do."

Like it or not, PvP is the engine that keeps UO going. Pvp'ers will spare no expense to make a suit or buy a house they want thereby rewarding those who farm materials and sell weapons and gear that is used in PVP. If you get a slither during your PvM outings you know you just made 150+ million because a PVPer WILL pay for it. On shards where pvp is dead the vendors are usually bare also. That is another reason why pvp guilds are moving to Atlantic, there is a thriving economy and 99% of the items needed to pvp are available on vendors there.

Changes to PVP need to take this into consideration and find ways to combat not only balancing issues but bring back vitality to PVP, give us something new worth fighting over.
 
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MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
So Humans get another bonus....

Elves are screwed again....

And Gargoyles already have extra advantages ......

Joy....
 

KLOMP

Sage
Stratics Veteran
So Humans get another bonus....

Elves are screwed again....
What on earth are you talking about? Look we all know you play an elf/archer and that you're just here to campaign for your own character, but will you please come back to reality a little? Humans totally suck next to elves. It's one thing when you're calling for throwers to be nerfed, because they need it, but this is getting ridiculous.
 
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RuSini Neb

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Attn: Doomsayers.

The publish on TC is NOT how the weapons or armor changes will go through. The make some of the changes in Phase 1, test them for a while to see how they work, then add phase 2 to the stuff on TC, test them, and so on, and only when all the phases are tested, and tested together, do they go into a publish.

You always complain about stuff not getting tested properly, and when stuff is attempted to be tested, you scream that the test versions will destroy UO.

NOT EVERYTHING THAT GOES TO TEST MAKES IT OFF TEST - or have I been simply overlooking the proficiency system for the last 5 years?

*************

Personally, if I was going to do something to balance PvP and PvM I'd do the following

1. IF you have a Necromancy buff (including shapechanges that are self-only, not corpse skin or Evil Omen) active
-Casting a Chivalry spell causes Direct HP damage equal to the spell base mana cost, that lowers the character's Max HP for 10 seconds by that amount
-Casting a Bushido spell causes Stamina damage (points lost, and max stamina lowered that much) equal to the spell base mana cost
-Casting a Ninjitsu spell causes Mana damage (treated as stamina damage above)

2. If a Chivalry buff is active
-Casting a Necromancy spell causes Direct HP damage as above
-Casting a Bushido spell causes Mana damage
-Casting a Ninjitsu spell causes Stamina damage

3. If a Bushido buff is active
-Casting a Necromancy spell causes Direct HP damage as above
-Casting a Chivalry spell causes Stamina damage
-Casting a Ninjitsu spell causes Mana damage

4. If a Ninjitsu buff/shapechange is active
-Casting a Necromancy spell causes Direct HP damage as above
-Casting a Chivalry spell causes Mana damage
-Casting a Bushido spell causes Stamina damage


UO's biggest problem isn't PvP balance - it's that Sampires have existed for 8 years, almost totally unchecked. One former UO chief didn't even know they EXISTED.

lol so one system didn't make it off test in 15 years and now every thing is golden... Maybe we should translate your posts into jarjar binks speak because that's about as 'too severe' as you sound spouting the same drivel in every thread. People are concerned and they have every right to be, quit trying to censor people, and let them give 'Their feedback' /sigh...


anytime you try to give validity to these devs I am going to bring up this:
Remember about a year ago the devs added some new artifacts to the game, but they forgot to change any of the item properties up, from the list they copied and pasted from Doom ? I mean seriously, it took the player base saying WE ALREADY HAVE THESE ITEMS IN GAME !?!?!?!?

Jarjar binks:


da publish on tc is no howa da weapons or armor changein ganna goin through.da make one da da changein in phase 1,test them for a while to see howa thesa jobbin,then add phase 2 toda stuff on tc,test them,and so on,and on whena all da phases is test,and test together,doin thesa goin into a publish. yousa always complain about stuff no gett test proper,and whena stuff is attempt to be test,yousa scream da da test versions ganna destroy uo. no everyth da goes to test makes it off test - or my been simp overlook da proficiency system for da last 5 years?"
 
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RuSini Neb

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
*runs screaming through the thread* AHHHHHH! THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!

Can I ask how extensively you've tested this new publish on TC? Or are you just presuming that you can read the patch notes and understand the dynamics of everything involved without taking the opportunity to see if the patch actually meets your expectations.

And if you have tested, have you provided constructive feedback, or are you just running around with your hair on fire screaming for water?
I don't know about him, but if my hair was in fact on fire as you say, I would be looking for water, or maybe even that stop drop and roll biz.
I would not be standing around while my hair and flesh smolder, trying to give feedback to a group of people who don't listen to it ever, and i mean EVER..
(UO dev mentality:) we had 1 less person complain this patch so we good PUSH IT THROUGH NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but sir its not even done !
NEOWWWWWW!!!!!!
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
What on earth are you talking about? Look we all know you play an elf/archer and that you're just here to campaign for your own character, but will you please come back to reality a little? Humans totally suck next to elves. It's one thing when you're calling for throwers to be nerfed, because they need it, but this is getting ridiculous.
Since when?


I don't get free anything except night sight but big whoop you put on a pair of earrings and you've got every advantage I have.....

I am sure that extra 5% I get in defense to Energy puts me over the top..... don't mind the fact you get free regen.... you get free use of about 4 or 5 Spellweaving spells that are decent too I might add.... and don't mind the fact that you have way more str that I do.

The piddly little bit we get in Mana is NOTHING. And since I"m not "gathering" resources as an archer and getting better goods (Which by the way is BS and hasn't worked since day ONE)...... I don't want to hear it.
 

puni666

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
It's on the right track to great improvement. You would be simple to think otherwise.
 

ShadowTrauma

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Give me an option that says, I am patiently waiting until all the feedback has been reviewed and the next set of publish ideas have been proposed, before making a rational decision on how I "feel" about this publish. :D

Otherwise none of the poll choices are feasible options for me.

We are all entitled to our opinions, I just choose to believe that this Dev team is actualy listening to the player feedback, and will have a revised publish proposal for us in the near future. I have seen a few of the developers (Bleak especially) lurking late in the night reading the myriad of forum threads from us passionate posters. Will everything be different? Most likely not, but there has been some very vocal and just opposition to several key changes, followed by some great counter suggestions from the playerbase. I doubt everyone will be thrilled, but only time will tell at this point.
 
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KLOMP

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Since when?


I don't get free anything except night sight but big whoop you put on a pair of earrings and you've got every advantage I have.....

I am sure that extra 5% I get in defense to Energy puts me over the top..... don't mind the fact you get free regen.... you get free use of about 4 or 5 Spellweaving spells that are decent too I might add.... and don't mind the fact that you have way more str that I do.

The piddly little bit we get in Mana is NOTHING. And since I"m not "gathering" resources as an archer and getting better goods (Which by the way is BS and hasn't worked since day ONE)...... I don't want to hear it.
Haha, what? Free +20 mana is HUGE. That's like three free imbues, or a free racial +20 stat scroll. Remember how wild people went just when they thought they wouldn't be able to get an extra 5 if they missed the Exodus event? You think that's "nothing" next to garbage like an infinitesimal amount of regen, or being able to cast weak unskilled versions of the lowest Spellweaving spells at a 50% fizzle rate? Elves crap on humans so hard it's silly.

It USED to be balanced when the Jack of All Trades racial counted toward making special moves cost less, but they nerfed that.
 

Viper09

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
looks like the poll is turning out to be a great publish
Given that the poll is obviously biased in giving only one positive option, that is not quite accurate. It really is approximately 60% negative and 40% positive.

But then again, it is only polling those who actually have stratics accounts and are active in coming here...
 

Goodmann

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
53 negative votes to 35 positive votes. The votes disagree.
The voting is a little skewed. There is only one "positive option" and the rest being negative.
There not just gonna scrap this pub. Changes are coming but to what degree?
 

chise2

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Give me an option that says, I am patiently waiting until all the feedback has been reviewed and the next set of publish ideas have been proposed, before making a rational decision on how I "feel" about this publish. :D

Otherwise none of the poll choices are feasible options for me.

We are all entitled to our opinions, I just choose to believe that this Dev team is actualy listening to the player feedback, and will have a revised publish proposal for us in the near future. I have seen a few of the developers (Bleak especially) lurking late in the night reading the myriad of forum threads from us passionate posters. Will everything be different? Most likely not, but there has been some very vocal and just opposition to several key changes, followed by some great counter suggestions from the playerbase. I doubt everyone will be thrilled, but only time will tell at this point.
I agree with your poll option lol! Its too early to tell. Yes I dislike the publish as it currently stands but they have reassured us multiple times they are listening Mesanna even wrote a little letter reassuring us of this! So I am fairly confident that yes we will see changes. Now I am still a little worried about things. I really need to see what changes they have decided to make. Hopefully they address most of the issues but until we see them we can;t know. Then even if they get part 1 right for all we know they could show us part 2 and we could be throwing our hands up in the air again and going oh no what did you do now!!? But yeah I have seen them lurking on the forums *the devs* not to mention liking certain well done feedback posts so its not like the claims of we are reading your feedback are a bunch of bs.

Ultimately yeah I doubt they will be able to make everyone happy. In something as big as an armor and weapon revamp there is always going to be someone disappointed. I just hope they manage to come up with something that makes the majority fairly happy at least.
 

Lythos-

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Ultimately yeah I doubt they will be able to make everyone happy. In something as big as an armor and weapon revamp there is always going to be someone disappointed. I just hope they manage to come up with something that makes the majority fairly happy at least.
No change will make everyone happy, period. There's so much variety in templates and playstyles it's impossible to please everyone.

That being said, the stam change being tied to armor is a little much. I personally know of close to a dozen players that have dropped half a billion gold into making the perfect reforged mage suit. Since 3/4 of those players are mystics that only run focus, they'll probably want to redo their suit to metal.

Not saying a SMALL change to stam would be a decent change but not tied into armor. I still stand firm that all armor should be made medable with base resists being adjusted for each type maybe something else to make all armor attractive. Variety is what most people crave to be able to make their character stand out. All the customization in UO simply doesn't apply to suits.

Not trying to play sunday afternoon developer but in terms of logic, i think that:
-people that wear heavy plate should swing slower but take far less damage (enhancing gives crafted plate a dci bump or hp regin?)
-people that wear cloth and light leather should be faster but take more damage (enhanced stam increase?)
-people that wear wood should be in a happy medium (somewhere in between)
-put the dragon scale/bone somewhere near the top too since it takes far more effort to craft
 

Aroma

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
This is the worse idea since someone put mayo in my pb&j!!! This will effectively kill pvm and make pvp so tedious that it wont be worth the effort. Want a better idea? Fix the damn bank bug, open bank then trade bammm client crash this has been in the game for like forever man.. Want to balance pvp get rid of the cheaters/hackers! There should be no way a player on foot can out run a mounted player!!
 

Lord Frodo

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Just a heads up the stamina issues will be addressed with the next publish to TC. Leather armor will be restored to its current state in production. I want to thank everyone who has submitted feedback so far and look forward to reading more of your posts.
 

Varrius

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The voting is a little skewed. There is only one "positive option" and the rest being negative.
There not just gonna scrap this pub. Changes are coming but to what degree?
Yea, the poll is definitely bad.
 

Revan123

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
There needs to be nerfs imo, but the stamina nerf is a little hard on the armor from what I've seen. I don't think dexxers/stealthers/throwers should easily have 100% stamina all the time, but that doesn't mean they should have to struggle to keep it from "bottoming out" all the time. I think Throwers are the one class that need to be nerfed hard. Most throwers that I know use leather armor and this publish isn't going to hurt them at all. They have a tremendous damage output, between the amount of damage they do, and the speed at which they do it, it easily tops a mage output and that's excluding mana and disruptions. To top it all off, (excluding pots and heal stones) Mages need to cast to heal. While they're casting heal spells they're not doing damage, where as throwers can heal with bandages at super fast rates and do a tremendous amount of damage at the same time AND disrupt mages limiting their heal/damage output even further. To top it all off, Throwers can heal with bandages while they run too, where as a mage has to stop and cast. Yes, they both have pots, but bandages + pots on the move is impossible to kill. Ask any good thrower. On the plus side Mages have more versatility (fields, teleports, x-heals, etc). Now I don't think Throwers should have the same damage output as a mage. Obviously in their versatility mages have several advantages, so throwers should have some kind of advantage to balance it out; and yes I agree that a thrower *should* have a higher damage output then a mage. But the way it is right now is just way over the top. I see good mages die to bad players just because they're playing a thrower all the time. It's too easy of a class to play to be as powerful as it is. And this publish as it stands is only going to help them imo. Sure stam pots won't be total refresh anymore, they're soul glaives will do 2 min and 2 max less damage, and they'll be capped at 45 hci instead of 50. But most throwers that I know use leather for the extra mana regen, so the gear nerf is mostly just going to hurt dexxers/sampires/stealthers. Also, HLD will actually be more effective against all of those mages with stacked DCI (which is almost everyone out there). Sure, people with lower DCI will be slightly harder to hit after HLD pops, but it's not like they're hard to hit to begin with.

Also, Lower Mana Cost on Non-medable gear? Wtf? Hey lets take a property already in the game (lmc) and let's make it inherently on heavy gear... just because... we're trying to balance the game? That's just stupid. Even though the classes (sampires/stealthers/dexxers) that use the heavier gear (and as I said, NOT throwers) don't really need nerfing... If you're going to make the stamina hits harder on lets say platemail gear (which does make sense to me), why not at least allow it to give a higher resist cap? Lets say for each piece of platemail the resist cap raises a point, and a full set will give you +10 raising it to 80. Or even just physical resist. If the gear causes higher stam hits because it's heavy, shouldn't it also provide a little bit extra resist for being so heavy? As I said, it's not the gear that needs nerfing so much as the thrower class. This change, would at least make people consider using the gear, because even with the stam hits, it would at least create the potential for a "tank" class, like the one's you might find in other games. You could also, instead of making the player take larger stam hits, just cause the heavy armor to reduce their overall dexterity, reducing their swing speed and stamina effectively, while providing much higher resists.
 
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