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Basara
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A few thoughts:
1. How is the housing server going to play into this? IDOCs frozen? Houses that got dropped in favor of a house on another shard suddenly back - and who owns them? There's a lot more complex issues than some of the "fix it, already!" types can comprehend, and it's not just transfers of characters.
2. RowanElizabeth is dead on about HD recovery. Consider that a 1 TB HD, if you only get back 99%, you're still losing 10 Gigs of data! And, most HD recoveries are closer to 75% than 99%.
Consider Stratics' own brush with death by revert in 2008. Our 3rd party "backup service", according to reports at the time, had continued taking payments but had stopped actually MAKING backups over a year prior. So, we were left twisting in the wind when the server host started formatting OUR machine instead of another customer's. We never did get most of the posts from 2002-2007 back, and there were a lot of important ones lost (shard historical stuff, 5 releases worth of Dev posts with critical info that were the basis for numerous FAQs, etc.) complicated further by the change in forum software.
3. Another simple, but time consuming, thing that MIGHT be going on is going through backups to determine who is eligible for the gifts and/or free time. This would require going to a backup prior to the patch that activated the gifts, seeing who had logged in their accounts on Atlantic in the few weeks prior (after the anniversary gifts stopped dropping), and using that as the basis for who gets compensation. Otherwise, all the cross-shard gifters might get comps.
1. How is the housing server going to play into this? IDOCs frozen? Houses that got dropped in favor of a house on another shard suddenly back - and who owns them? There's a lot more complex issues than some of the "fix it, already!" types can comprehend, and it's not just transfers of characters.
2. RowanElizabeth is dead on about HD recovery. Consider that a 1 TB HD, if you only get back 99%, you're still losing 10 Gigs of data! And, most HD recoveries are closer to 75% than 99%.
Consider Stratics' own brush with death by revert in 2008. Our 3rd party "backup service", according to reports at the time, had continued taking payments but had stopped actually MAKING backups over a year prior. So, we were left twisting in the wind when the server host started formatting OUR machine instead of another customer's. We never did get most of the posts from 2002-2007 back, and there were a lot of important ones lost (shard historical stuff, 5 releases worth of Dev posts with critical info that were the basis for numerous FAQs, etc.) complicated further by the change in forum software.
3. Another simple, but time consuming, thing that MIGHT be going on is going through backups to determine who is eligible for the gifts and/or free time. This would require going to a backup prior to the patch that activated the gifts, seeing who had logged in their accounts on Atlantic in the few weeks prior (after the anniversary gifts stopped dropping), and using that as the basis for who gets compensation. Otherwise, all the cross-shard gifters might get comps.
Giggles
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I demand compensation from everyone who posted in this thread for the massive headache I now have after reading this thread in its entirety. I Didn't sign up for this, and I deserve restitution!
Thank you and have a nice day.
Thank you and have a nice day.
Breath and let it go.
Yeah where do I go for my 30 free days? You're going to have to give them away to anyone who wants them, since you have no way of knowing who did or did not have what on Atlantic. That means this was literally a screwup worth tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Wow... actually... EA won't take kindly to that. Wonder who's getting fired.
Wow... actually... EA won't take kindly to that. Wonder who's getting fired.
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Lord Nabin
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I thought you were in my guild....cheating on me I see.
OH YES......were do i sign up for the free 30 dayer...i lost some stuff.........
Please read my post again. It said SOME people. And if you read SOME of the posts in this thread there are definitely people who have been selfish and callous in their postings to those who have lost a lot of stuff. Nowhere did I say ANYONE who didn't want a total revert was being selfish. That is just YOUR interpretation of what I said, and it is incorrect.
people talking about real money values of what they lost are confused. Your items are worthless in RL unless they were bought from the codestore, and those are gonna be replaced. Kinda funny to watch the people crying that they deserve 89cents per million lost cuz thats what illegal sites and sellers sell it for.
You lost gametime from the revert, nothing more, so what do you get to make it right? a free month of gametime to make up for the 12 days you lost. If you lost a serverbirth rare or something truly irreplaceable then ya you can complain since you cant get that item back (unless ya spend your free month making the gold to buy a duped copy since nothing in UO is a One of a kind anymore)
now back to your scheduled thread of people exaggerating their loses and screaming for everyone to be punished for atl's hardware issue
You lost gametime from the revert, nothing more, so what do you get to make it right? a free month of gametime to make up for the 12 days you lost. If you lost a serverbirth rare or something truly irreplaceable then ya you can complain since you cant get that item back (unless ya spend your free month making the gold to buy a duped copy since nothing in UO is a One of a kind anymore)
now back to your scheduled thread of people exaggerating their loses and screaming for everyone to be punished for atl's hardware issue
Just to throw in my 2 cents...I hear and see a lot of people complaining about supposed Xfers *TO* Atl that disappeared.
Well, I had 4 different shard transfer *TO* Atl since Dec 5th...different accounts each time, from different shards, on different dates... All 4 transfered characters were waiting for me with their transfer crate as i logged in to atl 10mins after shard came up last night. No items lost, or anything of the sort.
So i'm kinda of curious about people claiming that they lost a lot of stuff on shard transfers.
Well, I had 4 different shard transfer *TO* Atl since Dec 5th...different accounts each time, from different shards, on different dates... All 4 transfered characters were waiting for me with their transfer crate as i logged in to atl 10mins after shard came up last night. No items lost, or anything of the sort.
So i'm kinda of curious about people claiming that they lost a lot of stuff on shard transfers.
Raf, Some people's transfers went through fine. But I know a couple of very honest people saying theirs didn't. It looks like people that deleted a character on the destination shard to do a transfer are the ones that lost their stuff. The deleted characters are back and the transfer characters are gone. at least that is what I am hearing.
I'm sure a lot of people are not making this stuff up, but I would not be shocked if some people are.
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This is exactly what happened! I wanted to go there but my shard shield gump said I needed to delete a char there first, so I did. I transfered and everything was fine until after the revert yesterday. My char is just MIA. I'm almost to the point I don't care about the items I lost on that char, but damned If I want to rework all those skills again on something I had nothing to do with messing up. Something from the dev team stating we are aware, we are trying, we do care would sure go a LONG way to me (and me alone) and deciding if I want to continue throwing my money at a broken communication system.
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Incorrect.
A full shard revert was possible, and not as you say never feasible. We have all logged on before to find we have reverted 10 minutes or 30 minutes etc on every shard.
A full shard revert became impossible and not feasible ONCE they ONLY reverted Atlantic and not the other shards. Up until that position was taken and implemented it was entirely feasible. That decision instantly created an 'Us and Them' situation which is very clear by the posts on this thread, where those who have LOST stuff (not just Atlantic players) and those who have NOT lost stuff now argue the merits of a full shard revert. It instantly created the fall out problem of every transfer conducted over 12 days becoming a major issue, dupes of items/characters, lost characters as well as for those on Atlantic the loss of 12 days play. (Hence a seriously bad decision, made after a corrupted data base was discovered).
Had we all woken up yesterday morning, and I mean ALL, every shard, to find we were missing 12 days, and the announcement had been:
"Due to issues beyond our control, I am sorry to have to inform PLAYERS that we had to revert to a Dec 5, 2012 7:00 am EST back up. We have tried to retrieve a more current back up but we have been unable to do so due to corruption issues. Each active account will receive- "A blessed pair of boots with 'I survived the 2012 time warp' +2 MR, 140 luck, 10% LMC 5% SSI" as some small means of compensation for this unfortunate rollback."
No one would have been any the wiser and it would have been a shock to all and everyone would be in the same boat, and everyone would have had to support each other and assist each other to get stuff back. Everyone would have lost 12 days, that would have to be 'redone'. The issues of characters disappearing, hundreds of items that players worked hard to get, some over many years, just going poof would not have happened. Instead we have this mess where some players have to carry the whole burden of losses while others say 'I have my stuff, why should I lose it now'.
If they are able to replace items that people lost then that will just open another HUGE can of worms as if they can now 'find' lost items & characters then any who have lost before will have a justifiable claim to recover lost things prior to this collapse.
Everyone keeps saying this just affected Atlantic players, in fact even in their announcement the Devs single out the problem as being solely to Atlantic players. Sheesh they even only offer to compensate Atlantic players. What about all the players affected from other shards? What about them?
Atlantic is the main hub shard for pretty much the majority of transfers, it is like the super market for all shards. People are coming and going from other shards daily to trade. Since the advent of the shard shields the amount of stuff moving across shards on any given day is huge. There is a whole economy out there using shard shields as a monthly run around with goods being carted to and from by players on all shards. Just on my shard we have 3 players who I KNOW of (there could be a lot more) who offer transfer services of items every month. The person who moved my stuff also moved stuff for 3 others. That is 4 Oceania players affected just by ONE transfer from Oceania to Atlantic. So just because their may only be a couple of hundred transfers it doesn't mean only a couple of hundred people are affected. It could be a thousand. You don't know.
I guess Petra, it IS ok, as long as you're not one of the couple of hundred, as you put it. Sucks if you are tho, you just became the scapegoats for the 2012 Time Warp, but that's ok as long as the majority lost nothing. The other couple of hundred (or thousand) are expendable and don't deserve equal protection as players? Sheesh, they get a months game play (along with a hundreds of others who lost nothing but just happen to have logged onto Atlantic in whatever period they are going to use).
The devs have caused this 'us and them' situation, it was a very knee jerk reaction to a big problem and has now created even more of a problem and worse, a divisive UO, singling out some players to lose while others go about their merry way.
They slapped the horse on the bum when they just reverted Atlantic, so now it is impossible to do what should have been done to start with.
Miss Echo you are spot on!
If they had announced from day 1 we are reverting all shard due to a major dupe everyone would be up in arms but soon forgive and forget. The fact that it became a hardware issue even though it affects all shards somehow now it's not okay to revert all shards. If it hasnt't affected other shards then where is my stuff on Europa if it isn't on Atlantic?
I fall into this category. I had to delete chars on Atlantic to make room for the transfer from Europa.
If they had announced from day 1 we are reverting all shard due to a major dupe everyone would be up in arms but soon forgive and forget. The fact that it became a hardware issue even though it affects all shards somehow now it's not okay to revert all shards. If it hasnt't affected other shards then where is my stuff on Europa if it isn't on Atlantic?
I fall into this category. I had to delete chars on Atlantic to make room for the transfer from Europa.
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So you wanted them to LIE and screw EVERYONE unnecessarily when the problem was with ATLANTIC? Nice. Every selfish post like this I see makes me less and less sympathetic...
People aren't seeing the big picture that due to transfer tokens shards aren't independent of one another anymore. If the problem was only with Atlantic where *Bleep* is my stuff on Europa?
Someone please explain to me where people who transfered to or play on Atlantics stuff is more important then anyone elses ...All I see is we lost stuff now to get back some of our stuff everyone who was not affected should lose their 12 days of items aquired , chars trained , pets tamed and so forth
Welp another day gone by with nothing from the team. Who knows they might come out and fix the issue but it seems less certain.
I am sticking this out. I lost a lot and for all we know more loss is to come but I will not let someones mistakes take away a world I have loved for 13 years. I would appreciate some communication as to what our immediate future looks like and until them I don't plan on doing much but long term this is OUR world. I don't care what the TOS says, I don't care who's name is on the "deed". This game belongs to every single player and just because some gigantic corporation is giving it a place to stay for a while doesn't make it theirs. We the players make this game what it is and its time to show the world who is really in charge.
UO players unite!
UO players unite!
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No YOU aren't seeing the big picture. Trillions of gold has changed hands in the past 2 weeks on servers not named Atlantic. Hundreds of houses placed, traded, or decorated. Countless characters created or skills gained. People returning and working hard to get on their feet again. You want it all wiped out of existence because it happened to you.
I am not going to do much in UO until I hear the "no we are not reverting all the shards".
It is a shame they do not say anything, it seems cowardly not to, but maybe they're ok with this.
It is a shame they do not say anything, it seems cowardly not to, but maybe they're ok with this.
I do feel bad for those who lost so much, but I feel less inclined to feel bad for those who want everyone else to be set back.
But like I said, go ahead and revert everyone, see how many players you have left.
I freely admit I won't be as forgiving.
They may have created the fuel - but the spark and the oxygen and buckets and buckets of gasoline from those who insist that it would "only be fair" if "everyone else was forced to lose stuff and time too" (e.g. a full revert) created the fire. And those who continue to insist that everyone must suffer just keeps fanning it.
Not when the cost of that "protection" is untold damage to the vast majority unaffected by the Atlantic revert. It's cold, but reality sometime is.
And those who think that an ongoing disaster for every player would soon be forgotten and forgiven - you're fooling yourselves.
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I had the same experience as I posted in the rares trading thread yesterday. The character was there and all items in the transfer crate.
Read the post again, I states it is impossible to do a full shard revert now and highlights the reasons why. Show me where the demand for a revert is.
Please actually READ what is written.
If a revert happens now, then I actually LOSE on Oceania shard, a whole character created with a mythic token and all the days taken to train it to full gm, plus heaps of other stuff done there so not only all the work and items lost on Atlantic but also those on Oceania would go.
Still doesn't mean it is fair that a proportion of players have to wear the brunt of it. And if it was possible for a revert then I would lose a lot more than I have now. I don't consider it to be selfish to actually support those who are wearing the cost of this just so I can keep my stuff.
MY point was that had they done a full revert instead of just Atlantic, we wouldn't even be having this 'us and them' conversation. That is a fact.
My point was there wouldn't even be this situation, no one would have known any different. The fact they did it this way has CAUSED this. Also a fact.
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that doesn't mean those who do not support the full shard revert to be selfish either. How much more should I lose to make someone else feel better? It's already at 200M, name the price.
Why should they have burned down the rest of the village because one home had a fire ... Why would the person who lost feel the only way to feel better is to be joined by other people losing ...
Sad it happened but lets not drag down the rest of the servers because something happened to it as well some who transfered
There are far more people who dont play Atlantic or even use the transfer service for that matter
I suspect many people aren't telling the truth about what they have lost in order to get something out of this.
either way they can keep their 30 days of free play, it's insulting.
either way they can keep their 30 days of free play, it's insulting.
when I first logged in I had no transfered chars thats when I posted but when I got home acouple hours later after work and logged in again I found all my transfered chars and their stuff waiting for me in various towns on ATL , so I got lucky
^^ this is what happened to me
Please read and try to understand context of the post. Had they done a full revert, I wouldn't have known any different, neither would you or anyone else, we wouldn't be having this 'us and them' conversation. That was the thrust of the message.
If they had done a full revert, I would have lost on two shards, both Atlantic and Oceania as I play both equally, 2-3 hrs avg per day on Atlantic and 3-6 hrs per day on Oce. In fact I would be SCREWED as you put it 'twice over' so yeah, wouldn't that be selfish on MY part to want that?
Screwing MYSELF on two shards for 12 days each rather than just one is in your opinion me being selfish because I believe the way this has been handled is discriminatory for those players that lost out? Yep, sucks for the few but just 'screw them' ..... I am alright Jack. Great attitude.
I know who I think the selfish people are.
Now if the Devs would actually give people an update on what was going on, perhaps the playerbase would have something to go on. I already stated in a previous thread that my major losses on a transfer were lucky to have been caught in the 'transfer limbo' so the mass losses I logged into didn't happen as once the person doing the transfer did log in they were honest and told me they still had my stuff. I still lost 12 days of work and effort, and millions off my vendors that has to be redone, and have lost out on a lot of purchasing I had done that is now undone, but that is minor compared to the value of the transfer which equated to 6 months work. I just hope others find their transfers in Limbo like I did.
I am seriously hoping all those that transferred get their stuff back as transfer logs are kept somewhere, and that characters lost could be 'reborn' without the need for a revert. In that case the losses by those few unlucky hundred will not be taken. It would be nice if the Dev's actually made a comment so that this divisiveness in the UO player base could be put to rest. If they can restore from transfer logs, come out and flipping SAY SO, if they can restore players characters, come out and flipping SAY SO.
Stop with the wall of silence.
Do I want a full shard revert, not particularly given losing 12 days off two shards would hurt. Would I accept it if that was the decision so that hundreds of my fellow gamers did not lose millions in transfers, their characters, rares and irreplaceable items, in some cases their whole UO life given they were moving shards and had all their worldly possessions with them, YES, because I know how utterly sick and distraught I was when I thought my own transfer was lost. But that is me obviously being selfish.
Anyways, pretty much done with this until such time as the devs front up with more info.
All I wish to know now is actually HOW those who have lost out on 12 days actually claim that mythical 30 day gametime since no information has been forthcoming.
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luck has nothing to do with it.
from what i can gleam the devs are going through by hand and correcting the issue - just what i have gleamed from some people.
ok, im sorry but if the phrase 'Drama Llama's" is not copyrighted then im so gonna start using that!
thats just a stellar phrase!
and if anyone can make a smiley for that id be in heaven!
I beleive that anystuff you had before Dec 5th you will still have.
is it possible to try deleting the same character and see what happens?
I'm sure by now most of us missing chars have re-deleted the char and nothing happened as of yet.
I think the fact we havent herd any news is good news, the longer we hear nothing the more options that are beeing looked into and assessed and work on. Like when theres a disaster on the news there very little info for ages then it slowely starts getting more into depth and 1 month later the full picture emerges. I bet if they posted every hour "we working on it" youd then be moaning you want more detail, come on be honest you would!
give them time its only been 30 hours, how much work do you think it takes a team to find analyse asses situate test implement, such a HUGE thing like this with such and old system? Think when you have a power cut or your phone line stops working [there usually updated anually UO is 15 years old] how long does it take a MASSIVE multi billion £ company like british telecome to fix it? some times couple hours like when we get a minor problem sometines 1-2 days and they have resources on tap millions of man hours billions of £ and then think of the resources and man hours UO's dedicated team have???
By the sounds of it there working very hard as people are finding like i did there chars are reappering intact. PLUS giving out to much information at a critical time like this could alow the people with the know how to make a right mess of it, for instance if they said we are looking into the trasfer server to retreve all your chars dont you think some clever sod is gona go looking for that server to hack it while its wide open??
Thunderz
give them time its only been 30 hours, how much work do you think it takes a team to find analyse asses situate test implement, such a HUGE thing like this with such and old system? Think when you have a power cut or your phone line stops working [there usually updated anually UO is 15 years old] how long does it take a MASSIVE multi billion £ company like british telecome to fix it? some times couple hours like when we get a minor problem sometines 1-2 days and they have resources on tap millions of man hours billions of £ and then think of the resources and man hours UO's dedicated team have???
By the sounds of it there working very hard as people are finding like i did there chars are reappering intact. PLUS giving out to much information at a critical time like this could alow the people with the know how to make a right mess of it, for instance if they said we are looking into the trasfer server to retreve all your chars dont you think some clever sod is gona go looking for that server to hack it while its wide open??
Thunderz
Tried it, didnt work
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I did. I wanted to go from Sonoma to Atl using my shard shield token. When I tried, gump popped up saying first I needed to delete a char there due to my list being full, so I did. I tried transferring again and everything went fine. Then after the revert yesterday my char is not listed on either shard and the deleted char was back in the list, which I promptly deleted again. Yet my char has not returned to either shard list as of right now.
Simple: there were not enough affected people for The Powers That Be to think restoring you and the relatively few others was justified. That's not to say you didn't suffer, but this time is unprecedented in the number of players, and the efforts will also be unprecedented to prevent cancelled accounts. If Mesanna is restoring piecemeal, she's probably combing through corrupted backups by hand. It's never been so bad. UO had reverts seemingly once a week for the first few years, but the worst was only a three-day revert in 1999. The old "Lost in UO" comic joked about the timewarps.
Back in 1999, I worked a mage up to 5 GM skills, an extremely elite character for the time. GM Eval was the most difficult to train (gains slowed the more players were using a skill), and maintaining the skills became possible only once skill locks were introduced (Nov. 1999). Well, there was a beta client offered to players, introducing effects like dark nights. It had a bug, however: it turned off my "Always stay a ghost upon death," and after a monster killed me, I clicked to stay a ghost but was nonetheless ressed with the 8% penalties to all skills. I got screwed out of months of hard training. There was no power hour, no 8x8, just repeated skill use to get back. Meditation wasn't so easy to train, since at the time it gained only when you actively used it.
If only the support team had been more helpful over the years. Other Sonoma old-timers might remember our original Harlequin, a 7x mage even before skill locks (!), who was similarly screwed as I was. He lagged out in a duel and was killed, then logged back in to find himself ressed with penalties. It was because of us, and a few other unknowns hit by this res bug, that resurrecting with penalties was eventually removed.
Well, Harl never felt the same about the game and soon quit. I received no satisfaction from the developer responsible for the client (I forget his name). He simply said they couldn't reproduce what happened, that his new programming shouldn't have turned off the ghost/res option. Duh, that's why in software development we call it a bug. "Well, we can't restore items or skills anyway." You can imagine that I begged them to look at the shard's most recent backups: why would I res such a powerful character to destroy the skills, what benefit would that give me? But I persisted on over the years because of friends I didn't want to give up playing with.
Please do as many have asked why is a server revert necessary
Interesting. How did the skill loss work back in the day? I did not know that existed. I know the no skill locks and walking into someone making a camp and get screwed, but not about the rez penalty. How did you avoid getting penalized?
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