So we get a Fast response to Bag Balls and Exodus how about Andros and Archers on the %&^*%*( Ledge?

[weins201]

How about we get so you cannot seen from the ledge in Despise and target Andros. There are Two ***** in there now who conscript at low level train up on the way and sit on the ledge not doing a thin to kill him - Pathetic

 

[Picus at the office]

How is this a issue? It's not like anyone is exploiting something but it seems like it's just an annoyance to you. If the game terrain is such that this can happen it is clearly by design.

 

[weins201]

If you are damaging a critter and it has NO way of fighting back it is an Exploit - this has been covered IN DEPTH before. I am not going to hunt for the posts and responses, but it is EXPLOITING.

 

[Picus at the office]

Sorry I've never bothered to do this boss however...Are they using these pets to kill him? Are they just stopping you from killing him? Are they using these things to tank him while plinking arrows from a far?

 

[mspossi]

Sorry I've never bothered to do this boss however...Are they using these pets to kill him? Are they just stopping you from killing him? Are they using these things to tank him while plinking arrows from a far?

he has a nasty habit of killing the tamer, something that makes the pet a minimum useless

 

[Winker]

i made a thread about this a while back and it looks like no one gave a flying frack.

 

[Merus]

If you are damaging a critter and it has NO way of fighting back it is an Exploit - this has been covered IN DEPTH before. I am not going to hunt for the posts and responses, but it is EXPLOITING.

Using terrain to players advantage is not an exploit, and it has been done as long as UO has been here. I never saw anyone get banned shooting or casting on a skeleton over a graveyard fence. If players purposely create obsticals to block creatures THAT is an exploit, which is what was happening at Exodus.

 

[weins201]

What's wrong with dual clienting? We pay for the accounts and we are attending to both clients. On most shards you have to dual or triple client just to experience some of the content due to lack of players.

Uh nothing was said about dual clients

 

[Bobar]

Using terrain to players advantage is not an exploit, and it has been done as long as UO has been here. I never saw anyone get banned shooting or casting on a skeleton over a graveyard fence. If players purposely create obsticals to block creatures THAT is an exploit, which is what was happening at Exodus.

Now let me see, shooting a skeleton over a graveyard fence would not be an issue simply because it happens to be a skeleton and if you are using an archer, it does not matter if there is a fence or not. If the creature on the other side is a caster it can cast back as freely as you can fire at it. Therefore as you say nobody is ,or was, likely to be banned.

Now the case of Andros is a little different, This is a new Boss and he is located in an existing dungeon. The placement of Andros makes it fairly obvious that the conflict is supposed to take place on the island which used to house the Ogre Lords. Here the terrain is not being used to gain an advantage, it is being used to establish total control. The players lure Andros in front of the ledge on which they place their pet archers and then go and have dinner if they wish while their pets kill Andros because Andros is locked in front of the ledge with no method of fighting back and simply stands there till he dies. The players can then collect their drops, rinse, repeat, with no risk whatsoever. It is certain that this has been overlooked when it comes to this Boss encounter and as far as I can see is much more of an exploit than the balls, at least there the players still had to do something.

 

[Merus]

Now let me see, shooting a skeleton over a graveyard fence would not be an issue simply because it happens to be a skeleton and if you are using an archer, it does not matter if there is a fence or not. If the creature on the other side is a caster it can cast back as freely as you can fire at it. Therefore as you say nobody is ,or was, likely to be banned.

Now the case of Andros is a little different, This is a new Boss and he is located in an existing dungeon. The placement of Andros makes it fairly obvious that the conflict is supposed to take place on the island which used to house the Ogre Lords. Here the terrain is not being used to gain an advantage, it is being used to establish total control. The players lure Andros in front of the ledge on which they place their pet archers and then go and have dinner if they wish while their pets kill Andros because Andros is locked in front of the ledge with no method of fighting back and simply stands there till he dies. The players can then collect their drops, rinse, repeat, with no risk whatsoever. It is certain that this has been overlooked when it comes to this Boss encounter and as far as I can see is much more of an exploit than the balls, at least there the players still had to do something.

A skeleton can not range attack nor does it have the AI needed to open the graveyard gate to attack you. It will simply stand there agressive to its attacker until it is dead. The fence does in fact matter, without a range attack you cannot hit the skeleton either. Using a range attack over a graveyard fence is using existing terrain in a manner which prevents the intended target from fighting back.

Andros is NO different. The only things that are different is the terrain (ledge vs a fence) and the number of hitpoints the intended target has. Players did not create the obstacle as in the case of Exodus, which is and always has been considered an exploit. Players using archers from the ledge in no way prevents or interferes with anyone elses ability to attack the boss. If you wish to engage Andros you are free to do so at any point in the battle, including getting to him first and engaging him on the island and therefore excluding the use of the ledge for the archers by virtue of range. If the archers beat you there and take up stance on the ledge you are still equally able to engage the boss with your pet, just as if the archers were not even there.

Assuming someone is AFK is a completely different issue than complaining because someone is using a range attack as a range attack.

 

[Uriah Heep]

A skeleton can not range attack nor does it have the AI needed to open the graveyard gate to attack you.

They could open em during Halloween...havent tried em lately tho

 

[Uvtha]

A skeleton can not range attack nor does it have the AI needed to open the graveyard gate to attack you. It will simply stand there agressive to its attacker until it is dead. The fence does in fact matter, without a range attack you cannot hit the skeleton either. Using a range attack over a graveyard fence is using existing terrain in a manner which prevents the intended target from fighting back.

Andros is NO different. The only things that are different is the terrain (ledge vs a fence) and the number of hitpoints the intended target has. Players did not create the obstacle as in the case of Exodus, which is and always has been considered an exploit. Players using archers from the ledge in no way prevents or interferes with anyone elses ability to attack the boss. If you wish to engage Andros you are free to do so at any point in the battle, including getting to him first and engaging him on the island and therefore excluding the use of the ledge for the archers by virtue of range. If the archers beat you there and take up stance on the ledge you are still equally able to engage the boss with your pet, just as if the archers were not even there.

Assuming someone is AFK is a completely different issue than complaining because someone is using a range attack as a range attack.

OR they didn't think it/test it out properly. You should not have 100% protection from a BOSS just be going up a cliff. Exploit or no, it should be changed.

 

[Merus]

They could open em during Halloween...havent tried em lately tho

The named ones were bone or skeletal knights I believe, and yes those could open the doors, but for the most part still lacked the AI to go find the gate unless they were reasonably close to it.

 

[Merus]

OR they didn't think it/test it out properly. You should not have 100% protection from a BOSS just be going up a cliff. Exploit or no, it should be changed.

If someone elses pet is tanking the boss the archers work exactly the same way as they do up on the ledge. IMO any type of change they make to counter act the range attack of the archers also nerfs them in general. Personally I would rather leave them as is, which IMO does not negatively impact anyone than nerf the archers making them usless because some people dont like how other people play them.

 

[Viper09]

Uh nothing was said about dual clients

Some had mentioned dual-clienting earlier, Winker I think. However it was edited out.

 

[weins201]

If someone elses pet is tanking the boss the archers work exactly the same way as they do up on the ledge. IMO any type of change they make to counter act the range attack of the archers also nerfs them in general. Personally I would rather leave them as is, which IMO does not negatively impact anyone than nerf the archers making them usless because some people dont like how other people play them.

all that needs to happen i place a row o rocks along the edge where the archers sit, or make a path straight up there not 4 screens east. nothing needs to be done with the archers just the land

they did it in shame when copper eles where being shot over the rocks, in the lost lands near ophids when the grass island was stood on and knight errants were trapped below.

major issue here is it is a Champ not a Chump

the archer temp is not the issue, just the tactic

 

[Tjalle]

Wasn´t there a similar issue with the ladder at Lady Mel where archers could shoot at her while she couldn´t touch them?

The devs fixed that so they might fix this too.

 

[Uvtha]

If someone elses pet is tanking the boss the archers work exactly the same way as they do up on the ledge. IMO any type of change they make to counter act the range attack of the archers also nerfs them in general. Personally I would rather leave them as is, which IMO does not negatively impact anyone than nerf the archers making them usless because some people dont like how other people play them.

But in that scenario the boss is actually involved in the combat. It requires player tactics and cooperation to maneuver a monster in a certain way that ranged attackers do their job while tanks keeps the boss occupied. That's playing the game the way it was meant to be played. Going to a spot where the boss sits and does nothing... is not what was intended, and it should be addressed.

It's not a nerf to not allow players to do something unintended that allows 100% safety from a boss.

As for negative impact, if you can farm a boss in complete safety its rewards will be distributed far far far more often than they should be. It not only ruins the market for those items, it also devalues the rewards for all other encounters of a similar level.

 

[Winker]

Some had mentioned dual-clienting earlier, Winker I think. However it was edited out.

I dont want this thread going in the wrong direction, so i removed that line, so that the conversation didnt end up in a fight about whats leagal and whats not when using one or more clients. I seen from the thread i started that it ended up about dual clienting rather than Andros being soloed from a ledge