Does SP need Crafters?

[Hattori Hanzo]

In another thread, Freja mentioned the need for old school crafters. Assuming this is true, what do people want to see? Is there a need for imbued suits/weapons? Other items?

 

[Rumpy]

I would say yes, but most people want stuff imbued to their spec...

 

[Donal Mor]

my $0.02 , wandering around and watching who stocks what and so forth, my observation is that there is a shortage of gatherers of primary raw materials. Ingots, ingots, ingots, boards, cloth, leather, yarn, feathers, etc...

Good merchants who can keep a one stop shops supplied must have reliable gatherers who sell at reasonable prices. The prices need to be reasonable because the cost will be passed on in the final products, or the final products simply will not be made.

To help with that end... if you have a house near mountains, please make it public, put a forge out front and lock your doors. Finding a place to smelt is difficult.

 

[Uvtha]

my $0.02 , wandering around and watching who stocks what and so forth, my observation is that there is a shortage of gatherers of primary raw materials. Ingots, ingots, ingots, boards, cloth, leather, yarn, feathers, etc...

Good merchants who can keep a one stop shops supplied must have reliable gatherers who sell at reasonable prices. The prices need to be reasonable because the cost will be passed on in the final products, or the final products simply will not be made.

To help with that end... if you have a house near mountains, please make it public, put a forge out front and lock your doors. Finding a place to smelt is difficult.

Fire Beetle?

 

[FrejaSP]

my $0.02 , wandering around and watching who stocks what and so forth, my observation is that there is a shortage of gatherers of primary raw materials. Ingots, ingots, ingots, boards, cloth, leather, yarn, feathers, etc...

Also imbuing resources like essences from Abyss can be hard to find, I wish Devs would increase the drop of imbuing resources on Siege, so the price could drop to half.
After new Shame loot, Relic become cheaper but alot other resources are still expensive.

With cheaper resources on vendors, suit and weapon would be cheaper too and more will be willing to risk a nice suit in PvP.

More gatheres would help too but they too need cheap suits.

 

[Nico666]

In another thread, Freja mentioned the need for old school crafters. Assuming this is true, what do people want to see? Is there a need for imbued suits/weapons? Other items?

Yes, i need imbued suits.

 

[Hattori Hanzo]

Special order suits are a doable market, but it would be easier to put up bags of a generic style. When embueing first began I made tons of suits for guild members and a few opponents I knew well. However, there needs to be a way to serve the greater community IMHO.

 

[Tjalle]

What I think that Siege needs the most on the crafting scene is one or more dedicated shard imbuers.

Someone who is more than willing to take imbuing orders from the public, especially if the costumer can provide the materials.
Many of the imbuers we have atm are usually doing stuff for themselves and their guilds so not many wants to put in more time doing public imbuing requests.

 

[Hattori Hanzo]

What I think that Siege needs the most on the crafting scene is one or more dedicated shard imbuers.

I am thinking of doing just that since I have access to a fully skilled crafter. I will post further soon.

 

[Tanivar]

Resource gatherers are badly needed. The Demand for resources is there, the supply is not.

The basic craftables sell off & on on Siege, you can make a living at it, but the real money is in selling supplies to others at the bazaar.

 

[Hattori Hanzo]

I have to learn the bazaar.

 

[Bo Bo]

ya know what siege needs less of pvp tamers!

 

[Hattori Hanzo]

So, am I welcome to come back and craft? Is that safe enough for Bo?

 

[kelmo]

ya know what siege needs less of pvp tamers!

How does this add to this conversation?

 

[Hattori Hanzo]

So someone give me an idea what they need in a leather imbued suit.

 

[Tjalle]

Basic suits seem to be:

1. 100% LRC
2. All 70s, 100% LRC
3. All 70s, 100% LRC, 6 mana regen

Not sure what a basic dex suit would look like. All 70s, 42 stam inc, 6 mana regen?

More complex suits than that and you should take individual orders imo.

 

[Hattori Hanzo]

Thanks Tjalle. I can make those easy. However, many people want to run at least one artie. For example, if they run a Kasa, it leaves lots of room for mods. I would like to package the whole suit, minus any special item that is not craft-able, per basic often used templates.

 

[Bo Bo]

How does this add to this conversation?

he asked what sp needed. Bo felt it better to point out what sp doesnt need.

 

[Hattori Hanzo]

he asked what sp needed. Bo felt it better to point out what sp doesnt need.

Rumpy had a good comment, in another thread, regarding playing SP with your big boy pants on :

Welcome To Siege. Where you die and get looted. If you don't like it -> Tram.

Thats nothing to do with community, its called playing the game.

Now back to the topic. Do you need armor Bo?

 

[Tanivar]

I have to learn the bazaar.

I go through the vendors every month or so. Being a Crafter and not being into mega-hp grind kills, I don't play the ML or SA dungeons, just SE on back. So the vendors I usually sell to are D-5, C-2, I-3, H-3, & H-2. If you hunt the ML & SA dungeons you can make even more gold.

The high point to crafting on Siege is stuff sells here.

 

[Victim of Siege]

just going to give my .02 here, but Siege needs a little of everything. Crafters, PvPr's, PvMr's, Rpr's,.. you get my drift, because ultimately, if there are not more people coming to the shard, it does not matter if we have more Crafters or not. There will just be a shard of few diehards endlessly selling and buying to each other. Don't get the idea that i am going all "skyz fallin'" I'm just saying at this point i don't care what you do with your character, just being here is a good thing

 

[FrejaSP]

First you need the SA pack and the Rustic or Gothic pack as you will need access to Abyss to get the new resources and to run the Bazaar vendors, you will need one of the 2 deco pack. You don't need them to sell to the vendors.

Crafting is more complicated now, in the past you only needed clothes, leather, wood ingots and regs and runic tools.

Now you need:

•Bolts of cloth - 350 - 500gp
•Regular - 25 - 30gp
•Spined - 40 - 50gp
•Horned - 60 - 100gp
•Barbed - 290 - 300gp
•Wood, not sure about the demand here
•Regs, mostly mageregs
•Magic Residue: 25 - 50gp
•Enchanted Essence: 200 - 500gp
•Relic Fragments: 4k - 6k, this 3 comes from unrawing of magic stuff with imbuing skill, they are basic need for imbuing
•Abyssal Cloth (mage armor): 5k
•Archaic Rune Stone (mage): 10k-15k
•Boura Pelts (resists): 1 - 3K
•Chaga Mushroom (luck): 500 - 1k
•Crushed Glass (enhance potions): 10k-15k
•Crystal Shards (DI): 10k-15k
•Crystaline Blackrock (plus skill): 10k
•Delicate Scales (use best weapon skill): 5k
•Elven Fletching (lower requirements): 5k
•Fairy Dust (LCR): 5k-10k
•Goblin Blood (respond slayer): 1k
•Ichor (nightsight): 5k - 10k
•Luminescent Fungi: 1k
•Parasitic Plant: 2k
•Powdered Iron (durabiliy): 15k-20k
•Raptor Teeth (hit area effects): 1k
•Seed of Renewal (stat regen): 20k, from Abyss and from growing plants
•Silver Snake Skin (spell channeling): 5k - 10k
•Slith tongue (hit dispel): 1k
•Undying Flesh (undead slayer): 1k
•Vial of Vitriol (elemental slayer): 5k - 10k
•Void Orbs (hit leeches): 1k
•Wolf eye (reflect physical): 1k
•Essence of: ◦Achievment: 10k - 15k
◦Balance: 10k - 15k
◦Control: 10k - 15k
◦Diligence: 10k - 15k
◦Direction: 10k - 15k
◦Feeling: 10k - 15k
◦Order: 10k - 15k
◦Precision: 10k - 15k
◦Singularity: 10k - 15k
BOD Rewards
•Clothing Bless Deed: 500k
•Powder of Fortification: 50k

Plant Dyes
•Normal plants: 5k - 10k
•Mutant & Naturalist plants: 20 - 30k
•Mixed Pigments: 40k - 50k

You will see alot buying, some are willing to pay a high price, as gathering take alot of a crafters time or of a PvP'ers time, if he make his own gear.
If we get more gatheres, prices may drop a little for the resources but so will the price for a new suit

 

[FrejaSP]

just going to give my .02 here, but Siege needs a little of everything. Crafters, PvPr's, PvMr's, Rpr's,.. you get my drift, because ultimately, if there are not more people coming to the shard, it does not matter if we have more Crafters or not. There will just be a shard of few diehards endlessly selling and buying to each other. Don't get the idea that i am going all "skyz fallin'" I'm just saying at this point i don't care what you do with your character, just being here is a good thing

Agree, it's like with the food chain, without small fisk, the large one will die.

Siege need alot of sheeps for the wolves and some shepherds and shepherd dogs to defend them vs the wolves.

If to many wolves and to few sheeps, the shard will die.

 

[Hattori Hanzo]

Thanks for the comprehensive ingredient list Freja.

 

[Tanivar]

Agree, it's like with the food chain, without small fisk, the large one will die.

Siege need alot of sheeps for the wolves and some shepherds and shepherd dogs to defend them vs the wolves.

If to many wolves and to few sheeps, the shard will die.

The shards survival is up to the wolves, if they drive out to many sheep by slaughtering to many to often, the sheep will gather in flocks elsewhere. The sheep want to have some fun too some of the time, a concept many wolves can't seem to get a real grip on.

Me? I just took up Stealthing and watch the Reds ride buy.

 

[FrejaSP]

Thanks for the comprehensive ingredient list Freja.

I just borrowed it from Petra's list in the top of the forum

 

[Baby Doll]

Agree, it's like with the food chain, without small fisk, the large one will die.

Siege need alot of sheeps for the wolves and some shepherds and shepherd dogs to defend them vs the wolves.

If to many wolves and to few sheeps, the shard will die.

I know this , in the great state of Wisconsin, we have a wolf hunting season and shoot to killl, in order thin the pack, for a healthy wildlife control.:gun:

 

[Tanivar]

I know this , in the great state of Wisconsin, we have a wolf hunting season and shoot to killl, in order thin the pack, for a healthy wildlife control.:gun:

Can we do it often enough the worst of the sheep hunters aren't having enough fun and they decide to go elsewhere as the sheep who are not having enough fun do?

 

[Lyconis]

I use dragon barding deeds quite a bit. Bought 20+ from my last supplier, will need to restock soon. Iron is probably the best, as its cheap. Those who use the barding deeds tend to like Shadow too. I take then for whatever I can get, I have been getting them from 15k to 35k.

 

[Hattori Hanzo]

I was hoping some players would post a list of armor they would buy regularly to supplement the artys/jewels they always wear, i.e., barbed leather five piece (no Hat) with 80 LRC, 70 resists (50 energy), as much MR and HP as possible. That now looks unlikely, which brings me back to what I suspected. Imbued suits will be by special order.

 

[Nico666]

I was hoping some players would post a list of armor they would buy regularly to supplement the artys/jewels they always wear, i.e., barbed leather five piece (no Hat) with 80 LRC, 70 resists (50 energy), as much MR and HP as possible. That now looks unlikely, which brings me back to what I suspected. Imbued suits will be by special order.

Yes, imbued anything should be on special order.

 

[Hattori Hanzo]

Thanks Nico. It was worth the experiment of this thread to validate what we already knew.

 

[Rumpy]

I was hoping some players would post a list of armor they would buy regularly to supplement the artys/jewels they always wear, i.e., barbed leather five piece (no Hat) with 80 LRC, 70 resists (50 energy), as much MR and HP as possible. That now looks unlikely, which brings me back to what I suspected. Imbued suits will be by special order.

There are a few exceptions to this list. You can offer the following pretty much all the time:

High End Mage Suit: 70s Resist, 40 LMC, 100% LRC, Mana Regen 6
Basic Mage Suit: 70s Resist, 100% LRC, Mana Regen 6

These are common to be used by people. The dexxer suits are the ones that are so specific. Though if you made dexxer suits with + Stam/Mana and LMC/Mana Regen, I am sure they would sell fairly well. Nozomi on here use to do the Mage Suits, and she would sell quite regular. There is also a MAJOR MAJOR!!! lack of gargoyle armor available in the high end category. IMHO - Garg Suits are easier to make due to the high resist pieces.

Weapons are always going to be "Made To Order".

It all just depends on what you wanna do. I personally worked imbuing and no other crafting skill. I just have chests full of GM Crafted Barbed Armor and make my suits that way.

 

[Hattori Hanzo]

Thanks Rumpy. Any idea how much they are worth? Also, what about if I just sold individual items and let people piece suits together like we did forever on Atlantic.

 

[Luka Melehan]

if your interested in special order, perhaps conduct business on the forums and do orders of 5 suits or more. I like the basic 100 LRC, 70 Resists and MR, but like to be specific on armor peices. Training jewels would be awesome too.

 

[UncleSham]

(this got a little long but bear with me its good info)

at the zento gate shop i sell human lrc suits for 15 k . these are normal old style leather armor that anyone (male or female elf or human ) can wear . i make them out of barbed leather for best resists and i put 18 lrc on each piece . now some people only put 17 as thats all you need if you run all 6 pieces . but like you said , someone may want to run a kasa or something , so with 5 18s and a 10 point orb(or spellbook) you can swap out that one piece and still have 100% .

its going to be near imposable to predict what they will want to swap out so keep the reseists neutral.
(on these basic suits its whatever resists the random number generator gives, usually low 60s which is fine for a noob or training suit)

if im going to build an all 70s suit , i take the above basic suits and imbue them to 70 70 70 70 75 and sell those for 75k .

if i want suits that are all 70s and then some, ill add annother 15 phisical to cover protection . then ill add annother 10 fire to cover lich form or corpseskin and sell those for 100 k .

occasionally i will take that and add one mana regen each piece (2 would require seeds , but 1 each piece can be done with normal gems.) then maybe some increase mana 7 (again 8 would be special ingredients) maybe a point or 2 in hit point regen and sell those for 150k or so depending on whats on it. (maybe 200k if all of it)

i always keep a couple basic suits on there and one special suit. when a better suits sells ill try annother random better suit . in my experience the 75 k suits sell just as fast as the 150k suits so i just rotate different specials each time.

garish suits are hard for me to make as im not gargoyle and cant just put it on to see the resists . that and you have to bust out tinkering to do the jewelery so its more of a pain in the butt to make so i charge 25k for the basic garish lrc (same barbed 18lrc and i make the jewelery with valorite for best resists)
i always include the wing armor , it doesnt help the suits resists , but people seem to like using it and might as well include it so the name matches (that seems to matter to people too) ill keep sandals on the side for the human suits as well at 500gp . sometimes they sell if people want matching names.

something else ive heard from more than one person is how ugly the leather caps are . hats made from cloth dont give as good resists tho . (you dont get the bonus from the leather type) but to some people they are just too ugly to be worth the resists , so off to the side i keep a bag of various cloth lrc hats at 2500 each, and yes some do sell.

i generally dont sell dexer suits as they get really profile specific , but i do put one up occasionally with full resists and maybe some mr1 hpr1 and sr2 (sr3 would be special ing.) randomly tossed in.
(lmc is nice but remember any lmc is going to cost relic frags and max lmc is frags pluss a special)

people also seem to like the high dex suits , stamina increase 7 on each . maybe some hit point increase . keep it under the max stats to avoid special ingredients and you can make some nice dex suits , but dont go to fancy . top end suits get extremely specific. i can always take orders for those .

i generally dont powder the basic suits . they typically dont last long enough to wear out . however i may use a charge or 2 on the better suits or if i make something by request.

(this part is for everyone in general)
i generally dont mind taking orders unless someone wants godly items . first of all i dont want to equip just anyone in one of my god suits (max lmc and 2s on the regens) that would be like handing an enemy a powerfull weapon to kill me with.

and secondly, making a god suit takes alot more effort than most people realize, gathering the special ingredients takes days , sometimes weeks of hunting . high weight items have a high failure rate and then having the skill and patience to figure out exactly how much needs to go where can be some stressful thinking .

i do listen to general chat and i do try to respond when someone calls for an imbuer , (unless im deep im a dungeon or something) i actually enjoy making random stuff for new people and generally a well said thank you is all the payment i require. just think about what your asking for and keep it simple. im not going to just give noobies top end items . its best to learn by working your way up.

also when asking for top end items iether suply the special ingredients or give your crafter time to gather them and dont whine when they want to be properly compensated . remember if someone has the skills to gather these ingredients , they can probably farm something else for good gold per hour . dont expect them to spend their time imbuing for you and not make equal gold per hour.

but to many of us its not even about the gold . its about handing your enemy a loaded gun . do i really want to do this ? hmmm here have a god suit . have fun killing my friends. (i dont think so)

remember that next time you pk a crafter , he may do more than throw his shovel at you . he may remember.

 

[Hattori Hanzo]

Thanks US, for taking the time to share that. I definitely understand the thinking part. When I was imbuing regularly, I made some costly mistakes and know how easy that is to do. It usually happened when I was tired and ready to quit, but acquiesced to someone who really had to have some super item or set ASAP.

 

[FrejaSP]

A little help is found at http://www.knuckleheads.dk/imbuecalc.php

 

[Rumpy]

Thanks Rumpy. Any idea how much they are worth? Also, what about if I just sold individual items and let people piece suits together like we did forever on Atlantic.

The LMC/MR/LRC Suits are worth around 200k in my opinion. As it only takes 22 relic frags and the rest is small gems. Not too many fails either. Maybe 250k, but not much more. The lower end suits, do them at around 50k. Don't just sells suits with base resists, people don't want that garbage less your training. Sell stuff at 70s resists and do it right if your going to do it at all.

Jumping on some what Unclesham said, don't use leather caps. I always use Dear/Bear Mask as it looks cooler and nifty when dyed. Some people use Kasa's or a Straw hat as well. Keep it unisex and tasteful in style.

Don't bother powdering anything either. They don't last that long.

I can't stress again the need for gargoyle stuff. I don't play garg, but I have many guildies who do and others who would like to just quick pick a good suit.

To touch on dexxer suits, all the dexxer suits I make are:

Are like 65-70s resists, +42 Mana, +42 Stamina, MR 6, LMC 40.

That is ideal for PvP for most people. A smart dexxer uses divine fury or refresh pots for stamina. I know suits like this would sell alot to guildies or even dummy it down a little, but no less than 30 LMC. You can mix it up and add some +HP too.

 

[Rumpy]

Sorry if there is typos - My stratics is extreme lag with this snow and is insane to try and type.

 

[Tjalle]

Hattori, get a mailbox where people can drop books with orders and contact info in. That way they can easily describe exactly what they need even if they can´t get a hold of you at the moment.

 

[Adrianas]

I have to learn the bazaar.

Just a quick comment on this, Hattori - if you use the bazaar, be very careful. I know that some people must (somehow) be making money by using the bazaar. I tried it once and never could get the hang of it. I don't know if I will have time today, but someone should start a separate thread that talks just about the bazaar and asks the question - just how *are* they making it cost effective?

 

[FrejaSP]

Just a quick comment on this, Hattori - if you use the bazaar, be very careful. I know that some people must (somehow) be making money by using the bazaar. I tried it once and never could get the hang of it. I don't know if I will have time today, but someone should start a separate thread that talks just about the bazaar and asks the question - just how *are* they making it cost effective?

I think the ones making most money from the bazaar vendors are the one selling to them. It's very hard to make money from running them as they take to high fee for reselling and they not always buy, what you need most.
It would be for nice for people to have an options to only show buy or sell list.

About prices for suits, remember time is money too, and a 5x70 suit with some other mods are not made in few min. Look at other vendors to see what they sell and their price. Choose a few kind of suits and people will come again next time they need a new suit.

 

[Donal Mor]

Just a quick comment on this, Hattori - if you use the bazaar, be very careful. I know that some people must (somehow) be making money by using the bazaar. I tried it once and never could get the hang of it. I don't know if I will have time today, but someone should start a separate thread that talks just about the bazaar and asks the question - just how *are* they making it cost effective?

My impression of the bazaar is that of a bunch of people begging others to sell them resources. I don't see a lot of resources being offered for sale, just a lot of buyers. The prices aren't that attractive either. Now the one thing that I do like about the bazaar is that it has enabled tamers to sell pets with the use of a vendor.

I suspect the success of the bazaar is very dependent on overall population.

 

[Rumpy]

My impression of the bazaar is that of a bunch of people begging others to sell them resources. I don't see a lot of resources being offered for sale, just a lot of buyers. The prices aren't that attractive either. Now the one thing that I do like about the bazaar is that it has enabled tamers to sell pets with the use of a vendor.

I suspect the success of the bazaar is very dependent on overall population.

The ones who do end up selling, are also buying. Its a "I will pay this for X; then sell X for this". Granted, its not a big profit gain, but its still some. Its a good way for newbies to make some money. I think the tamer is the best option there. I actually may end up doing a tamer once and chock it full of beetles just for new players. Sadly, I have not seen anyone new come to Siege lately. About 2 months back, I got 5 beetles in 1 day for new people.

 

[FrejaSP]

My impression of the bazaar is that of a bunch of people begging others to sell them resources. I don't see a lot of resources being offered for sale, just a lot of buyers. The prices aren't that attractive either. Now the one thing that I do like about the bazaar is that it has enabled tamers to sell pets with the use of a vendor.

I suspect the success of the bazaar is very dependent on overall population.

The problem with selling items on a bazaar vendor is the fee at 5% a week

Lets say, I buy relic at 5k each, the vendor will 250gp from the money before I got them in my bank, so I get 4,750gp
Now I want to resell it for 6k. The vendor fee will be 300gp a week, no matter if I sell it or not.

My profit, if I sell it in the first week will be: 6000 -5000-250-300=700gp

That's not bad if I sell in a week, but each week I don't sell, it will cost me 300gp.

The vendors are nice if I need resources but can be a pain if I get alot more than I need as it will drain my bank very fast and I will end up with a stock, I really don't need.

Also you can only have one vendor so the list of items get very long and it's hard to tell the buyers what you sell

 

[fra Abronsius]

I think the ones making most money from the bazaar vendors are the one selling to them. It's very hard to make money from running them as they take to high fee for reselling and they not always buy, what you need most.

How true. You pay the spot, the selling, the buying, and the rent, which is based on the total amount of the stuff you're selling. It doesn't entice vendors to stock large amounts of resources that might be sitting there for weeks, eating the already small profits in fees. At some point these taxes are even worse than some RL ones.

Test bazaars on TC before opening one. People will very quickly take advantages of your mistakes before you even understand how it all works.

 

[Rumpy]

How true. You pay the spot, the selling, the buying, and the rent, which is based on the total amount of the stuff you're selling. It doesn't entice vendors to stock large amounts of resources that might be sitting there for weeks, eating the already small profits in fees. At some point these taxes are even worse than some RL ones.

Test bazaars on TC before opening one. People will very quickly take advantages of your mistakes before you even understand how it all works.

A guildie mispriced something on his vendor.. He got took for alot of gold.

 

[Hattori Hanzo]

I don't yet see the value of the bazaar.

 

[Baby Doll]

I don't yet see the value of the bazaar.

Well I found having a bazzar buyer was/is an extreme help when I get into heavy boding. Otherwise I have ask or post BUYING ?????? Now I could get into the wild and take the time (which seems like a year) collect all the wood, ingots, leathers, etc. that I use up. Could ask in chat or post and get no response, or yep I have like 129 peieces of plain for ya , and OCCASSIONLLY someone has a bigger bulk. But I place a bazzar vendor buying items that will be used continully at prices worthy of people bringing to me, the items will/are in better stock.

For community well those who have a lil this and a lil that can earn some gold coin. No, Is any one wanna buy my 6 whatever things? Well when will she/he be on again? Well how much would people pay. Go look!

I do not believe Sprago really makes any off those stall vendors, but the turn around of buying and selling is good for those to swap items for gold. Making the gathers and crafters easier to trade for a minimal cost. I believe he (and others in family) keeps these up because we view this as good for community.

Every one has only so much time to give to the game. I would rather buy and enjoy doing other things then log in and mine, lumberjack, or kill enough whatevers and hope to get 10 of anything. Then do that long enough to make a suit.

I have no problems with any of those skills, I have been there done that, not my thing. Now useing those things up making runics to burn, and sale, well thats my thing. Others in family think boding is lame as hell. They enjoy the results in suits designed for pvp or pvm =PVE.

So I say 2 thumbs up for Bazzar.

Baby Doll I4NI (COM)