The Murder system

[Berethrain]

It's been so long since this system has been touched, so here's a few things I'd like to see change/evolve.

Being red should remove the criminal status being able to loot anyone in fel or get attack a blue and get rezed immediately after. Of course they are criminals, t hey are red. So when they die they can also immediately be ressurected by a red healer. They are red too, of course.

Allow the title "The Murderer" in the title system. I.e. in my paperdoll or as a scroll over on my character it would say Berethrain The Murderer.

There has never been any use for short term and long term counts. The amount of hours required to burn both sets off is rediculous.

Get rid of short term and long term and just make them "Murder Counts".

1 count should make you red. If you do the crime you do the time. It shouldn't be that you can kill 4 people and only spend 2 minutes as a criminal. This is widely abused.

Helping someone kill another player is still considered a murder count.

Make each murder count decay rate time 12 hours in game or make them decay in 24 hrs without being logged into the game. There is no reason for the absurd amount of time for a murder count to be decayed.

Forged pardons should remove more murder counts. 10 would per pardon would be better. These are already 1 million each. This might even go up in cost giving treasure hunters a little added bonus.

Being Red, your insurance costs should go up. Each count should be a multple of the insurance base. Got 50 murder counts? Your insurance just went up 50x per piece. This is not really this much because most items are 10gp to 600 gp. Want to kill 50 people, you're going to pay more. I'm guessing more people would want to go take a crack at the insurance.

It may be worth looking at allowing Reds into other facets. No pvp there, but allow them to integrate with the rest of the player base. NPCs still won't sell to them, and if they die to an npc they should become lootable in trammel etc. Minus what they have insured.

Just a few ideas for now.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

There has never been any use for short term and long term counts.

Short-term murder counts used to determine stat loss.

Source, aside from my having played for long before AoS:

Murder Counts - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia

-Galen's player

 

[Assia Penryn]

I'm not sure I agree with your ideas, BUT I'd like to add my own idea to the list.

They have a system in place that gives loot credit to healers. Make it so those who heal a red whom receives a count within x amount of time receives one also. Yes, I know they get flagged, but I think it should be more severe.

 

[Merus]

Truthfully the only change I think we need to the murder count system is a token in the UO store to wipe all counts. The restriction should be that it can only be used on a specific character once (or once every two or three years).

The role of murder counts and the playstyle has changed drastically over the last 15 years. Some of us have characters we are very attached to and would no sooner delete them than quit playing all together... But they have more counts from 1998-2002 than we will reasonably ever get rid of with playtime or pardons. Give those that are happy playing reds under the current system the option to stay red, give those of us who are willing to pay a one time $ to get back to blue the chance. If those characters go red again they can use playtime and pardons on a realistic number of counts taken under the current conditions, but its time to stop penalizing those who played a red a very long time ago when this game was very different.

 

[Berethrain]

Truthfully the only change I think we need to the murder count system is a token in the UO store to wipe all counts. The restriction should be that it can only be used on a specific character once (or once every two or three years).

The role of murder counts and the playstyle has changed drastically over the last 15 years. Some of us have characters we are very attached to and would no sooner delete them than quit playing all together... But they have more counts from 1998-2002 than we will reasonably ever get rid of with playtime or pardons. Give those that are happy playing reds under the current system the option to stay red, give those of us who are willing to pay a one time $ to get back to blue the chance. If those characters go red again they can use playtime and pardons on a realistic number of counts taken under the current conditions, but its time to stop penalizing those who played a red a very long time ago when this game was very different.

Red is red, whether you turned back then or recently. Actually the character I used this screename for is red with 100s of counts.

Short term/Longer term are now pointless other than the length of time it takes to burn counts since red stat loss didn't take place but for a few years if i remember correctly.

There's no reason for the murder gump upon death, it should just assign the count.

Forged pardons are ok but I'm not about to pay 1m for 1 count to be wiped off. Makes them pretty pointless unless you're already blue trying to stay that way.

 

[Berethrain]

I'm not sure I agree with your ideas, BUT I'd like to add my own idea to the list.

They have a system in place that gives loot credit to healers. Make it so those who heal a red whom receives a count within x amount of time receives one also. Yes, I know they get flagged, but I think it should be more severe.

Or increase the length of time being a criminal. But yeah, I agree it's not severe enough.

 

[Merus]

Red is red, whether you turned back then or recently. Actually the character I used this screename for is red with 100s of counts.

Short term/Longer term are now pointless other than the length of time it takes to burn counts since red stat loss didn't take place but for a few years if i remember correctly.

There's no reason for the murder gump upon death, it should just assign the count.

Forged pardons are ok but I'm not about to pay 1m for 1 count to be wiped off. Makes them pretty pointless unless you're already blue trying to stay that way.

You are right, red is red... But no one has paid attention to short term counts for what 10 years? Could it be changed? Sure, but IMO it isn't broken, just outdated. I am ok with current counts requiring a pardon or game time to burn off. If you are actively taking more counts than you can afford then you are still playing the role of a pk, which is fine and you should be red. But if you have a character that is red because you played that role 10 years ago then I think you should have a realistic means to reset those counts. I agree that pardons are not realist, nor is gametime.

I guess I think that if you are still playing a pk it should be just as hard/expensive to stay blue as it currently is.

 

[claudia-fjp]

Forged pardons screwed up the murder system and completely removed accountablity from it. You used to have to make descisions about when to murder someone if you wanted to stay blue. Now most people who previously would be red run around murdering on blues and just eat pardons. If anything I think pardons should ONLY work if you are already red and take you to a minimum of 5 long term counts making you burn off at least 1 count.

 

[cazador]

Forged pardons screwed up the murder system and completely removed accountablity from it. You used to have to make descisions about when to murder someone if you wanted to stay blue. Now most people who previously would be red run around murdering on blues and just eat pardons. If anything I think pardons should ONLY work if you are already red and take you to a minimum of 5 long term counts making you burn off at least 1 count.

One night of being reckless and helping your guild on a blue can set you back 10-15 counts easily which is going to cost you either countless hours of farming pardons or paying close to 20mil to remove them..pick your poison I say let me spend the gold it helps out the t-hunters

 

[Berethrain]

Forged pardons screwed up the murder system and completely removed accountablity from it. You used to have to make descisions about when to murder someone if you wanted to stay blue. Now most people who previously would be red run around murdering on blues and just eat pardons. If anything I think pardons should ONLY work if you are already red and take you to a minimum of 5 long term counts making you burn off at least 1 count.

This isn't true because pardons cost 1m+ already.

I see what you are saying but if you want to eat gold I say let them. But 1 count should make you red because there is little accountability up til 5 murder counts anyways. OTherwise you're a criminal for a few minutes and back to being blue.

 

[Merus]

I am with Caz on the addition of pardons. People still weight the cost of a count if they are blue and want to stay blue. That cost is just measured differently, and with the current dynamics of UO I think it is fairly balanced. 1 count means paying a t-hunter for his treasure or building a t-hunter and doing maps themselves. If you think pardons are too cheap, take that up with those selling them, they set the price not EA.

 

[Lady Storm]

Sorry for your dislike of the system.... but I say do nothing to it. My reason is simple. When it works dont fix it! Dev get their little paws in stuff we end up ......well.... Screwed.
Look its been this way from almost day 1 and I see little change as it works just fine. Now I cant see any harm in the title bit, but other then that I dont see a need for the Dev to open this can of worms.

 

[claudia-fjp]

One night of being reckless and helping your guild on a blue can set you back 10-15 counts easily which is going to cost you either countless hours of farming pardons or paying close to 20mil to remove them..pick your poison I say let me spend the gold it helps out the t-hunters

That's might point exactly, PARDONS RUINED THE SYSTEM. If you spend a night on your blue killing 15 people you should be RED end of story. No get out of jail free card. The system as it was originally worked, if you wanted to kill people with impunity you were red. When they added pardons it screwed up the system royally.

I bet if the people who originally came up with the system were told about pardons and how now instead of a morality/gameplay system its now just a murder tax and after it came out most reds and red guilds all of the sudden were blue they'd agree it got ruined.

 

[Viper09]

That's might point exactly, PARDONS RUINED THE SYSTEM. If you spend a night on your blue killing 15 people you should be RED end of story. No get out of jail free card. The system as it was originally worked, if you wanted to kill people with impunity you were red. When they added pardons it screwed up the system royally.

I bet if the people who originally came up with the system were told about pardons and how now instead of a morality/gameplay system its now just a murder tax and after it came out most reds and red guilds all of the sudden were blue they'd agree it got ruined.

You mean even if fighting was consensual? Spawn raiding involves both red and blue players. Defending a spawn can lead to characters accumulating numerous murder counts, this scenario has been mentioned several times. That doesn't sound fair to me at all nor can it be comparable to a player who runs around killing innocent players. You can't paint this all in one color and say that all murder counts are the result of killing innocent players.

With that said, I do agree the murder system needs to be revisited. Short term/long term counts should be combined. I like the idea of increasing the insurance costs for pks. Burning off counts while logged off, not sure on that one.

 

[Don't Tread on Me]

That's might point exactly, PARDONS RUINED THE SYSTEM. If you spend a night on your blue killing 15 people you should be RED end of story. No get out of jail free card. The system as it was originally worked, if you wanted to kill people with impunity you were red. When they added pardons it screwed up the system royally.

I bet if the people who originally came up with the system were told about pardons and how now instead of a morality/gameplay system its now just a murder tax and after it came out most reds and red guilds all of the sudden were blue they'd agree it got ruined.

I'm not sure if you spend much time in fel pvping, but your view, imo, is a little skewed. Guilds fight all the time against each other with smatterings of reds and blues in the mix. There are many occations that it happens, but the most pvp-centric is when two pvp guilds in the same faction get in a fight. Factions, for multiple reasons, generally run with both blues and reds depending on the mission at hand. When they get in a fight, murder counts reign for two reasons. 1) pvpers tend to kill each other a lot and 2) when you're in the same faction, there's no stat loss. That's just one scenario that blues get counts while NOT PKing (in the murdering innocent blues definition of the word).

Cazador was right on up there talking about getting counts then paying for them with pardons. It's a win win win all around. You don't get 10 counts in a night PKing anyone who isn't fighting back nowdays. 10 counts = 400 hours = 16 2/3 days of constant being online with that character. Or, 10-15 mil in forged pardons. That's a fair deal. Being red doesn't make you evil. Being red just means that you're red. It's not like 1998 anymore. Though, don't think that red won't attack you, cause he probably will......

I also think that one murder count should make you red. Why not? That'll make the gate trash think twice about doing what they do.

 

[claudia-fjp]

I'm not sure if you spend much time in fel pvping, but your view, imo, is a little skewed. Guilds fight all the time against each other with smatterings of reds and blues in the mix. There are many occations that it happens, but the most pvp-centric is when two pvp guilds in the same faction get in a fight. Factions, for multiple reasons, generally run with both blues and reds depending on the mission at hand. When they get in a fight, murder counts reign for two reasons. 1) pvpers tend to kill each other a lot and 2) when you're in the same faction, there's no stat loss. That's just one scenario that blues get counts while NOT PKing (in the murdering innocent blues definition of the word).

Cazador was right on up there talking about getting counts then paying for them with pardons. It's a win win win all around. You don't get 10 counts in a night PKing anyone who isn't fighting back nowdays. 10 counts = 400 hours = 16 2/3 days of constant being online with that character. Or, 10-15 mil in forged pardons. That's a fair deal. Being red doesn't make you evil. Being red just means that you're red. It's not like 1998 anymore. Though, don't think that red won't attack you, cause he probably will......

I also think that one murder count should make you red. Why not? That'll make the gate trash think twice about doing what they do.

Last I checked when a blue heals a red or attacks you they go grey and you can kill them without a count. It's all part of the flagging system. It's not like its new and back when I did fight along side guilds instead of solo sure I got an occasional count but it was nothing knowing you could attack and kill as many as you want because there was no penalty. Gold cost of pardons is so negligable I wouldn't call it a penalty. I've played Red murders, Red (Evil) system on Siege, Blues. You can't tell me pardons didn't screw up the system. There used to be entire RED GUILDS with 1 or 2 blues. Now its the opposite and it ruined the system in my opinion.

I know I know, people love playing what once would be their reds in trammel for events and such. They like being able to use the virtues etc. All the benefits but none of the drawbacks there once was, but that's exactly why I think a once great system got imbalanced.

 

[Uvtha]

Truthfully the only change I think we need to the murder count system is a token in the UO store to wipe all counts. The restriction should be that it can only be used on a specific character once (or once every two or three years).

Meh... I see no reason to restrict it. If they wanna pay let um. Murder counts don't even matter in any way any more because players in fel already know they can be attacked freely, we dont need a warning system.

Anyway, I think its pretty rare the reds don't WANT to be red. They like being red. Seems like the main reason for wanting to wipe murder counts is if you wanna sell an account. Peeps have alts for any tram stuff...

 

[LordDrago]

Sorry for your dislike of the system.... but I say do nothing to it. My reason is simple. When it works dont fix it! Dev get their little paws in stuff we end up ......well.... Screwed.
Look its been this way from almost day 1 and I see little change as it works just fine. Now I cant see any harm in the title bit, but other then that I dont see a need for the Dev to open this can of worms.

This. In case you were born yesterday and have not noticed, many times when the devs strive to "fix" something, it becomes more broken than the Buffalo Bills Superbowl ring hopes.

Bestial suits...fixed so well, they went from making one invinicible to making one actually easier to kill
Faction points...fixed so well, that, well, ask any of the 5 players still in factions.

If the devs try to fix murder counts, don't be surprised that if you go red, the very trees, mountains, squirrels, and moongates themselves attack red players on sight.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!!!!!

 

[Berethrain]

This. In case you were born yesterday and have not noticed, many times when the devs strive to "fix" something, it becomes more broken than the Buffalo Bills Superbowl ring hopes.

Bestial suits...fixed so well, they went from making one invinicible to making one actually easier to kill
Faction points...fixed so well, that, well, ask any of the 5 players still in factions.

If the devs try to fix murder counts, don't be surprised that if you go red, the very trees, mountains, squirrels, and moongates themselves attack red players on sight.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!!!!!

In case you were born yesterday, PVP isn't what it used to be.

But you're right, lets just eat more of the same crap they've been feeding us for years.

Yes I'll have some more useless pixel crack too please. Thanks.

 

[Muck]

But they have more counts from 1998-2002 than we will reasonably ever get rid of with playtime or pardons.

Didnt they wipe all Murder Counts with the introduction of the 3rd Age? (Malas)

 

[LordDrago]

In case you were born yesterday, PVP isn't what it used to be.

But you're right, lets just eat more of the same crap they've been feeding us for years.

Yes I'll have some more useless pixel crack too please. Thanks.

So you like the "fix" that the devs made to the faction point system? OK, I guess you have a right to your opinion.....

My point was, just be careful of what you wish for...the devs seem to have a tendency to go a bit overboard when they "fix" things. Thats my point, no need to read more into it.

have a nice day.

 

[Don't Tread on Me]

Last I checked when a blue heals a red or attacks you they go grey and you can kill them without a count. It's all part of the flagging system. It's not like its new

True. But I don't see the relevance to what I was saying. Faction blues are set up to pvp and kill other OJs. Sometimes they wind up getting masses of murder counts in concentual pvp. Poo happens.

knowing you could attack and kill as many as you want because there was no penalty. Gold cost of pardons is so negligable I wouldn't call it a penalty.

I don't know about most people, but 1 mil of gold is a lot for me and not negligable. I don't have much gold income and, well, I spend most of my game time pvping and supporting me and my bro imbuing style. Also, I see blue PvPers worried ALL THE TIME about getting counts. Even with pardons, they worry about their count.

I know I know, people love playing what once would be their reds in trammel for events and such. They like being able to use the virtues etc. All the benefits but none of the drawbacks there once was, but that's exactly why I think a once great system got imbalanced.

I dunno about that. Maybe some like to get their reds to tram, but 1) it's not worth it to most people, and 2) most reds are reds for a reason and have a gazillion counts and don't care about getting more. It's the blues who go red who live on the line between blue and red that use the most pardons, etc. Again, like I said before, the people that I see abusing the pardon system are not the real PvPers, but rather the blue gate trash who pretend to be all "virtuous" but really are just blue PKers and guard whackers.

 

[Merus]

Didnt they wipe all Murder Counts with the introduction of the 3rd Age? (Malas)

I personally have no recollection of a wipe or how it was applied. I played from 1998 - 2002. The first character I made in UO was red with 100s of counts. When I came back in 2010 he was still red. When I left I had no idea I would be back or that my accounts would endure. I was thrilled to have the accounts back, even it it was naked characters with empty bank boxes. The game is very different now than the game I left in 2002 and so is my play style. Back then all I did was pvp, now days I play all the different facets of the game, but rarely get the chance to play my original character. I would love a chance to turn him blue again, but will never delete him.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I personally have no recollection of a wipe or how it was applied. I played from 1998 - 2002. The first character I made in UO was red with 100s of counts. When I came back in 2010 he was still red. When I left I had no idea I would be back or that my accounts would endure. I was thrilled to have the accounts back, even it it was naked characters with empty bank boxes. The game is very different now than the game I left in 2002 and so is my play style. Back then all I did was pvp, now days I play all the different facets of the game, but rarely get the chance to play my original character. I would love a chance to turn him blue again, but will never delete him.

The only wipe I'm aware of was after the Harrower first spawned.

He gave out murder counts so they wiped all counts, then fixed the bug.

People who played reds were then actually quite upset. They liked their counts, they liked being red. As I suspect they will be if they wipe counts now. Historically-speaking we can be quite-assured that a counter-argument will not emerge until after it happens, but that won't change the fact that people will be upset.

Fortunately I doubt such a thing will occur.

My own counter-argument to a murder count wipe, while most who actually play the game would likely agree, will not be well-received on these boards.

-Galen's player

 

[Merus]

I would not favor an all out wipe. What I would like us the option. I can by tokens to change my name, chane my race, change my gender, or change my shard... Give me the option to by a code to change my reputation. Limit the number of times it can be used on a character and let me pay for it. Don't want to wipe your counts then don't buy one. Been a good player and never been red, it doesn't cost you anything.

 

[Lady Storm]

Lord Drago forgive the young, they no not know what they are asking for.
We on the other hand know full well the cost of "DEV PAWS IN THE WORKS" will do.
Its how the whole imbalance in skills started in the bloody first place.
I am a anchinet player, I admit to being adicted to UO.
So in saying that beleave me when I tell you DO NOT ask the dev to "FIX" the murder system!!!
It works fine.
If you dont like the way it works then dont pk/pvp to that point.
I have a red so dont hand me I have no clue of what you need. There are not enough pardons produced from the first one till now to get my guy out of being a red. So lets not go there. You get attacked for being a red for a reason. Your choice was to become a criminal which is what a red is. To remove any of hte punishments for the crimes is asking for it to be looked on as something petty. Murder is not petty. Even in a game. The system is working fine.

 

[Berethrain]

Lord Drago forgive the young, they no not know what they are asking for.
We on the other hand know full well the cost of "DEV PAWS IN THE WORKS" will do.
Its how the whole imbalance in skills started in the bloody first place.
I am a anchinet player, I admit to being adicted to UO.
So in saying that beleave me when I tell you DO NOT ask the dev to "FIX" the murder system!!!
It works fine.
If you dont like the way it works then dont pk/pvp to that point.
I have a red so dont hand me I have no clue of what you need. There are not enough pardons produced from the first one till now to get my guy out of being a red. So lets not go there. You get attacked for being a red for a reason. Your choice was to become a criminal which is what a red is. To remove any of hte punishments for the crimes is asking for it to be looked on as something petty. Murder is not petty. Even in a game. The system is working fine.

How arrogant and conceited of you, even for an "ancient" player.

I'm not asking for a fix. I'm asking for an update.

The system is functioning but so is the factions system. It seems however, and sadly, the only real talent the devs have is for trammel grinds for pixel crack.

It's disappointing, so when anyone asks for a pvp update on ANYTHING it gets shot down because people are satisfied with the status quo.

I, on the other hand, am not. Because I still pvp, i don't haul a dragon around saying all kill pretending to.

 

[SlobberKnocker]

This. In case you were born yesterday and have not noticed, many times when the devs strive to "fix" something, it becomes more broken than the Buffalo Bills Superbowl ring hopes.

good discussion. my hopes lie in a possible faction fix that takes the idea of being a red into account. there probably needs to be more of a consequence of being a red. however there also should be a fix to the system in regards to gz hugging blues.

 

[LordDrago]

Another alternative to a "murder count wipe token":

Buy, select from vet rewards, etc, 6-7 soulstones. Stone off the skills. Put stones in house or another characters bankbox, along with all other possessions. Delete character. Create new character with same names (set str, int, dex as best you can). Stone on skills to new character. Work attributes up to needed levels.

Done.

Not the best solution, but one that is...available now, and currently nuch faster than waiting for the "murder count wipe token".

 

[Elden of Baja]

I think everyone is looking at this the Wrong Way.

1. Fel is PvP Territory.
I don't care what anyone says about having their crafter in fel, or living in fel, or whatever nubs usually say about fel not being a PvP Zone. If you went to a forum for a different game and saw someone "crying" because they are getting Pk'ed on a PvP Server.... They would be told to make a toon on a PvE server, End of Story... This is no Different. I'm not saying remove Guard Zones, I'm just Pointing out that Fel is PvP Territory.

2. Stop Thinking The True "Reds" Actually Care about Counts
Anyone who thinks "True" PvP'ing Reds actually care that they are receiving counts is "insane".
Insane: Doing the Same thing over and over again, and expecting Different Results.
"HAHA I COUNTED HIM AGAIN, THAT WILL TEACH HIM. WAIT... WHY ARE YOU STILL ATTACKING ME, AREN"T YOU AFRAID OF THE COUNTS!!!!!!!!! NOOOO!!!!! GUARDS HALP!!!! OOoOoOooo...." A Dedicated PvPer has at least 1 Backup Toon for Stat Loss, or for when they just feel like Changing it up, and that toon is also Red. Oh, and 99% of the PvPer's Would never use their template for PvM, Because they have Characters Specifically designed for Those Jobs, Just like they Carefully Design their PvPing Templates/Gear.

3. Just Leave Everything Exactly the way it is, but let Reds come to Tram.
The only person who is actually Hindered by Reds not Coming to Tram, is Trammy's who don't have multiple Trained Toons. Everyone needs to get this Silly notion out of their heads that this punishment effects the reds that exist in any way shape or form. This "Punishment" is Killing the one of the Greatest Parts of this Game, PvP, by Preventing people who Spent hours Training and suiting their Toons from Doing the Majority of PvE, because they went to a PvP Zone and did some PvP'ing. Like going to a mine and Mining. Da Fuq?

4. Stop the Hate and Participate.
I think if More Dubs weren't so afraid of Going Red and not being able to visit Trammy Land, we would have a little less Guard Zone Hugging, Kiddy Pool Splashing, Cryfests, and actually see some action in Fel.

Oh, but the Cheaters and the Gimp Templates, and the Hackers and the Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.

There are Cheats, Mods, Hax, and Templates that trump other Templates in every PvP Game that has ever Existed, and Trust me when I say the Hax, mods, and Scripts that are out there now, are nothing compared to the Old "Real" Speedhacks and Gimp Templates of the past.

Talk to PvP'ers, Try and figure out what templates they play, look at their suits, watch their playstyle, ask what Supplies they always carry on them, Hell, Ask them about legitimate game mechanics in PvP like Swing speed, DCI, Block Chance, Poison, Bandage Slipping, how Bola's Work, the Delay between Mortalling/Para Blows, how the damage from a nerve Strike works, UOAssist Macros, In game macros, what locations you can teleport to and from, good choke points, and the list goes ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON.

 

[Lady Storm]

Berethrain Sweety.........
Its not arrogance but the simple knowlage of what will happen that I tell you no.
To ask even for that simple little thing of updating the system wil infact open it to so much trouble that you will seriously regret asking weeks after they change it.
The first bugs happened here:
Pvp players couldnt handle mages power and cryed so much and so loud that the dev at the time dabbled in the balance of the system that was set in stone. Bugs and the start of trouble insued.... each change more unbalanced the skill sets as they tried to reput the different classes back in balance...To this day it is still so messed up many throw up their hands and quit.

I remind you the old code is a delacate thing and is very very tempermental. Yes I can say with a pat hand that if the dev do touch it.... we all will regret it.
Look at the simple reinstatement of the tents in the spawns... sounds soooo simple. Just add in the old tents with the original spawns they came with back in the 97 era..... right..... WRONG!
Those simple codeing of tents wiped out alot of players items, rares and years of work. And they still cant find out why. Simple........ is very hard kiddo.
I dont expect you to agree with me.... your dead set to get your way. And I doubt you will listen to years of reason by the likes of any of us vets who have seen it all.
(why do they send me the hard heads??)
Let me make this perfectly clear. IF the dev do touch the murder system we all will pay for it in some way, shape or form.... this is UO. I have history to back me up.

 

[Winker]

Once upon a time there were three little pigs and the time came for them to leave home and seek their fortunes.

Before they left, their mother told them " Whatever you do , do it the best that you can because that's the way to get along in the world.


The first little pig built his house out of straw because it was the easiest thing to do.
The second little pig built his house out of sticks. This was a little bit stronger than a straw house.
The third little pig built his house out of bricks.
One night the big bad wolf, who dearly loved to eat fat little piggies, came along and saw the first little pig in his house of straw. He said "Let me in, Let me in, little pig or I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your house in!" "Not by the hair of my chinny chin chin", said the little pig. But of course the wolf did blow the house in and ate the first little pig.

The wolf then came to the house of sticks.

"Let me in ,Let me in little pig or I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your house in" "Not by the hair of my chinny chin chin", said the little pig. But the wolf blew that house in too, and ate the second little pig. The wolf then came to the house of bricks. " Let me in , let me in" cried the wolf "Or I'll huff and I'll puff till I blow your house in" "Not by the hair of my chinny chin chin" said the pigs. Well, the wolf huffed and puffed but he could not blow down that brick house. But the wolf was a sly old wolf and he climbed up on the roof to look for a way into the brick house.


The little pig saw the wolf climb up on the roof and lit a roaring fire in the fireplace and placed on it a large kettle of water. When the wolf finally found the hole in the chimney he crawled down and KERSPLASH right into that kettle of water and that was the end of his troubles with the big bad wolf.

The next day the little pig invited his mother over . She said "You see it is just as I told you. The way to get along in the world is to do things as well as you can." Fortunately for that little pig, he learned that lesson. And he just lived happily ever after!

 

[Berethrain]

Berethrain Sweety.........
Its not arrogance but the simple knowlage of what will happen that I tell you no.
To ask even for that simple little thing of updating the system wil infact open it to so much trouble that you will seriously regret asking weeks after they change it.
The first bugs happened here:
Pvp players couldnt handle mages power and cryed so much and so loud that the dev at the time dabbled in the balance of the system that was set in stone. Bugs and the start of trouble insued.... each change more unbalanced the skill sets as they tried to reput the different classes back in balance...To this day it is still so messed up many throw up their hands and quit.

I remind you the old code is a delacate thing and is very very tempermental. Yes I can say with a pat hand that if the dev do touch it.... we all will regret it.
Look at the simple reinstatement of the tents in the spawns... sounds soooo simple. Just add in the old tents with the original spawns they came with back in the 97 era..... right..... WRONG!
Those simple codeing of tents wiped out alot of players items, rares and years of work. And they still cant find out why. Simple........ is very hard kiddo.
I dont expect you to agree with me.... your dead set to get your way. And I doubt you will listen to years of reason by the likes of any of us vets who have seen it all.
(why do they send me the hard heads??)
Let me make this perfectly clear. IF the dev do touch the murder system we all will pay for it in some way, shape or form.... this is UO. I have history to back me up.

I would rather have them take the chance of updating something and fail, than have them do nothing at all.

I am unsure why you assume I'm newer the game. I've been playing since 99' so "us vets" may not always share the same opinion.

I don't care if you disagree, and you might even be correct, but quit being condescending. I don't care how old you are or think you are.

 

[Lady Storm]

You still dont get it.
I am from Beta, and a 55 year old, and sometimes i feel a few billion years old. I own and pay for all 53 UO accounts and have a hell of alot more to loose then your tail jr if it goes wrong. I can only imagine the bugs that it will have. You might be right that nothing will, but I for one am not willing to bet the farm on it. That damn code is old, its moody at best when they touch it. I have seen and had alot of the past boooboo's the dev team have done to the game effect my accounts.... do i want more? Hell no. They can mess with your end of the game but leave mine alone! Petra and the stratics team would have a fit if I listed off all the times the different Dev team's have "fixed" the game for the better and had it go so wrong. History has a way of repeating itself, and thats more evident in UO then anywhere else. I am not being "down" on any changes its just I see a potential of very bad things happening if it goes wrong. Just think what the Murder system entails...... could you see some poor guy who goes out and kills ...oh say a friend training combat that once was ok... but now due to the "new system" he is a red on the first blow..... I see trouble with it so dont go telling me I am a downer to your idea. I worry your idea will make the game a mess and we loose more people... buggs tend to sent players away so fast its not funny.

 

[Berethrain]

You still dont get it.
I am from Beta, and a 55 year old, and sometimes i feel a few billion years old. I own and pay for all 53 UO accounts and have a hell of alot more to loose then your tail jr if it goes wrong. I can only imagine the bugs that it will have. You might be right that nothing will, but I for one am not willing to bet the farm on it. That damn code is old, its moody at best when they touch it. I have seen and had alot of the past boooboo's the dev team have done to the game effect my accounts.... do i want more? Hell no. They can mess with your end of the game but leave mine alone! Petra and the stratics team would have a fit if I listed off all the times the different Dev team's have "fixed" the game for the better and had it go so wrong. History has a way of repeating itself, and thats more evident in UO then anywhere else. I am not being "down" on any changes its just I see a potential of very bad things happening if it goes wrong. Just think what the Murder system entails...... could you see some poor guy who goes out and kills ...oh say a friend training combat that once was ok... but now due to the "new system" he is a red on the first blow..... I see trouble with it so dont go telling me I am a downer to your idea. I worry your idea will make the game a mess and we loose more people... buggs tend to sent players away so fast its not funny.

You will have to forgive me if i disbelieve that you are paying almost $700 a month for 53 accounts, let alone all being affected by the murder system tweaks mentioned before.

Either way, this is where we end our disagreement. For whatever reason, you are reluctant for change because it might lose players due to a bug.

Me, I say that aspect of the system is going down just as fast for not receiving any attention at all.

Take care.

 

[Lady Storm]

Ask any of my friends here how many I have... oh I do plan to cut out a handfull again for the umphteenth time.... so if you know anyone on chessy who wants to buy 2 keeps let me know the tower there I'll just take down and the one on GL is a simple drop.... sorry I forget you dont beleave me... 10 castles on Origin alone and add in 2 luna homes, Napa has 3 castles 3 keeps and a smattering of others, Baja.... oh hell just say I have something like 66 or more homes over 14 shards. and yes virginia I do play and pay. Oh and as for knowing what will happen to that code........ I use to write in it way back when the dino's roamed Los Angeles!
It's not the change sugar.... change to that code unless its complete replacement will cause more headaches then you can imagine.
Every time they have tried to change parts of that code for a fact it will do something to some other feature in the game.
I do understand what you and others wish... but each time the original has been messed with the game dies a bit more.... Being a red has to have its down side.

 

[Berethrain]

That's ok, I'm not concerned with how many accounts you own nor did I really believe any change would occur. Just a pipe dream I guess.

It is truely disappointing when devs will address a thread on this forum about a steering wheel, or what have you, within minutes of being posted. Yet you get dozens of posts about pvp and there's not a peep.

Oh well, I guess I know what I'm paying for now and what I will not be paying for again soon.

 

[Muck]

I personally have no recollection of a wipe or how it was applied. I played from 1998 - 2002. The first character I made in UO was red with 100s of counts. When I came back in 2010 he was still red. When I left I had no idea I would be back or that my accounts would endure. I was thrilled to have the accounts back, even it it was naked characters with empty bank boxes. The game is very different now than the game I left in 2002 and so is my play style. Back then all I did was pvp, now days I play all the different facets of the game, but rarely get the chance to play my original character. I would love a chance to turn him blue again, but will never delete him.

I finally found it! You all had your chances to remove the Murder Counts in July 2002


A Royal Pardon for All! // Jul 26 2002 9:34AM CST (GMT -06:00)

“Hear ye! Hear ye! The honorable high court of Britannia does hereby decree that, in light of the recent waves of monstrous entities and their champions rampaging throughout the lands, that all current outstanding murder warrants shall be dismissed, and all persons shall once again have equal opportunity to bear arms against the Evil that threatens our civilization.”

As the age of the Harrower dawned, we found that he was evil - far more evil than we’d ever imagined. This evil ripped into the very framework of Britannia, causing fear, confusion, dissent – and at times, extra murder counts for players who lost their loves in the dungeons and Lost Lands.

To fix this wrong, we debated on the best course of action – whether to revert, or to level the playing field by giving all characters a one-time-only reprieve of all murder counts. The decision was made to issue a reprieve, and it was done. This reprieve is granted to each character as they enter Britannia—as each character logs into UO, all of that characters short- and long-term murder counts will set to zero. This reprieve will only happen once per character.

Once this decree was made, we concluded it was best to not make a formal announcement until the reprieve was activated on all shards, for fear of unscrupulous people taking this opportunity to enter killing frenzies on multiple shards, anticipating that at the end of the day their murders would essentially have zero repercussions.

We apologize for any inconveniences suffered in the development of any character, and hope that this reprieve helps bring everyone’s characters back on track.

 

[Winker]

I finally found it! You all had your chances to remove the Murder Counts in July 2002


A Royal Pardon for All! // Jul 26 2002 9:34AM CST (GMT -06:00)

“Hear ye! Hear ye! The honorable high court of Britannia does hereby decree that, in light of the recent waves of monstrous entities and their champions rampaging throughout the lands, that all current outstanding murder warrants shall be dismissed, and all persons shall once again have equal opportunity to bear arms against the Evil that threatens our civilization.”

As the age of the Harrower dawned, we found that he was evil - far more evil than we’d ever imagined. This evil ripped into the very framework of Britannia, causing fear, confusion, dissent – and at times, extra murder counts for players who lost their loves in the dungeons and Lost Lands.

To fix this wrong, we debated on the best course of action – whether to revert, or to level the playing field by giving all characters a one-time-only reprieve of all murder counts. The decision was made to issue a reprieve, and it was done. This reprieve is granted to each character as they enter Britannia—as each character logs into UO, all of that characters short- and long-term murder counts will set to zero. This reprieve will only happen once per character.

Once this decree was made, we concluded it was best to not make a formal announcement until the reprieve was activated on all shards, for fear of unscrupulous people taking this opportunity to enter killing frenzies on multiple shards, anticipating that at the end of the day their murders would essentially have zero repercussions.

We apologize for any inconveniences suffered in the development of any character, and hope that this reprieve helps bring everyone’s characters back on track.

Yes i remember this. It was one time only shot. Back in those days there was a ping pong system. If you went red five times there was no way of ever going blue again. So if you pinged back and forth between red and blue you could only do it 5 times than you were red forever. This decree gave those characters a chance at being blue again. I think it was at this point they took out the bit about ping ponging back and forth and you could go red to blue as much as you wanted as it is today

 

[Merus]

I finally found it! You all had your chances to remove the Murder Counts in July 2002


A Royal Pardon for All! // Jul 26 2002 9:34AM CST (GMT -06:00)

“Hear ye! Hear ye! The honorable high court of Britannia does hereby decree that, in light of the recent waves of monstrous entities and their champions rampaging throughout the lands, that all current outstanding murder warrants shall be dismissed, and all persons shall once again have equal opportunity to bear arms against the Evil that threatens our civilization.”

As the age of the Harrower dawned, we found that he was evil - far more evil than we’d ever imagined. This evil ripped into the very framework of Britannia, causing fear, confusion, dissent – and at times, extra murder counts for players who lost their loves in the dungeons and Lost Lands.

To fix this wrong, we debated on the best course of action – whether to revert, or to level the playing field by giving all characters a one-time-only reprieve of all murder counts. The decision was made to issue a reprieve, and it was done. This reprieve is granted to each character as they enter Britannia—as each character logs into UO, all of that characters short- and long-term murder counts will set to zero. This reprieve will only happen once per character.

Once this decree was made, we concluded it was best to not make a formal announcement until the reprieve was activated on all shards, for fear of unscrupulous people taking this opportunity to enter killing frenzies on multiple shards, anticipating that at the end of the day their murders would essentially have zero repercussions.

We apologize for any inconveniences suffered in the development of any character, and hope that this reprieve helps bring everyone’s characters back on track.

Still more than 10 years ago, and a very different game nowdays....