Collecting Exodus Keys

[MissEcho]

Hi folks

Having looked at the crafting of keys, the need for Taint, Abyssal Cloth, Crushed Glass, large gems, blackrock etc is just too much of a pain to bother with. Not to mention, taint is probably the most difficult item to get and to require 5 per deed when each party member needs a deed is ludicrous. NO idea who thought that idea was good. They obviously have limited knowledge of the drop rate of taint nor the other uses it has for basic items like scrapper's so that it was always in short supply even prior to this.

I have legendary and gm skills in every required trade, but the amount of hassle/cost of resources just isn't worth the time, and is certainly not the slightest bit 'enjoyable' given the messing about required for each item if you take in the initial gathering time.

So given the above, I am wondering what template is the most effective at gathering the required keys via the exodus dungeon.

So if you have the time, and want to assist me in working out the best method of gathering, go to the exodus dungeon, play normally for ONE (1) hour and record the total loot gain and what template you used. The time limit for the test is so we compare apples with apples

I didn't actually 'kill' anything with the following template so am interested to know if those who kill find any decent items on the corpses.

Class: Rogue

Template: Stealing 120, Hide 100, Stealth 75, Lockpicking GM, Detect Hidden 52 (training still), magery, med, eval.

Play Style: Detecting and looting chests, stealing from zealots.

Loot after 1 hour:
Keys: 2 Robes of Rite, 3 Exodus Sacrificial Daggers
Gold: 55,738 gps
Gems: 61,396 gps worth (65 ruby, 84 sapphire, 73 tourmaline, 82 diamond, 79 amythyst, 74 star sapphire, 88 emerald, 89 citrine).
Essence: 8 Order, 4 Feeling, 2 Passion, 2 Achievement, 3 Precision
Other: 17 Potions of Invisibility, 17 Parasitic Potions, 73 smoke bombs

Deaths: None

 

[Petra Fyde]

I've done a couple of runs but I'm afraid I don't really do timed data collection.
The fastest way to collect keys is, I believe, with a bard. However I have a lot of fun with a rogue and would do that even when I don't want keys for the other items you can get.
I would use crafting not so much for making full sets of keys but for filling in 'gaps' when you're getting more of some keys than others.
So far our stock of taint has gone up by just 2, stolen from zealots.
Crushed glass however isn't too hard, and can be done entirely by crafting, just takes rather a lot of time.
Mine sand, make glass swords, grind them into crushed glass.

 

[MissEcho]

I guess you make my point, .......... "mine sand, make glass swords, grind them into crushed glass, just takes rather a lot of time" ..... just to obtain crushed glass for ONE part of the ingredients needed to make ONE item.
People want to go and fight the boss, they don't want a whole production just to get the stuff to do that. So ok, collect keys, but all this messing around is just plain silly and not the slightest bit enjoyable if it takes too long.

Afraid I am going to find this 'boss' the same as the high seas pirates. I waited forever to get the expansion due to UO store issues, finally got it, then found to fire a flipping cannon I had to spend hour after hour collecting crap and making crap and switching from this craft to that craft and in the end I have still to actually 'get' all the stuff needed to actually fire the things. Right now all my cannons are sitting in a chest unfired as about 3/4 of the way through I totally lost interest. On a small shard like mine, you can't 'find' any vendor selling anything so basically have to do everything from scratch. Because I got High Seas so late, pretty much the rest of the shard was 'over it' and no one has the slightest interest in messing about with keeping stock and crafting all the inane paraphernalia required to just fire a canon. Disappointed to the max. Still want to hunt pirates, just don't want to craft all that crap to do it. I suppose with the exodus keys you at least have the option to collect the completed keys, unlike anywhere in high seas to collect the cannon firing stuff.

However, to me the requirements needed to craft the 'keys' are just another sample of making what should be a fun thing, a royal pain in the you know what. Perhaps if you only required ONE set of keys per party, the trade off to be able to craft them rather than hunt for them is a 'viable' alternative. It is expensive and painful but at least you only need one 'set' per turn, the way it is now, even if you only use 'crafted ones' to top up, my experience so far on collecting is I have 10 daggers, 6 Robes, 2 Alters and so far only ONE of the Exodus Summoning rite. So for a party of say 6 to go in I would need to use 25 taint to just make the 5 additional summoning rites. Priced taint lately?

I understand someone somewhere thinks we need to ensure that all craft skills have a use, but they went totally overboard on the stuff required for cannon firing, and have now done the same for this. I have absolutely NO idea what someone on a small shard does who does NOT have every craft covered in their cast of characters. Having to craft item 1 before you can craft item 2 to be used to craft item 3 is TEDIOUS. Especially when item 1 is only one item of 4 needed to make item 2 etc. There is no need to nest items multiple times within the directions for crafting ONE thing.

Anyways, still interested in what others are doing.

PS my Rogue has stolen off every zealot in the dungeon at least in 3-4 whole hours of stealthing around it, and as yet I have not got ONE item off a zealot other than gold even though 99% of stealing attempts have been successful. If you got 2 taint I suggest you were pretty lucky.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Each to his own I guess. I'm actually enjoying going after the keys, my biggest worry is actually finding the opportunity to use them before they run out.Although that's proved groundless so far.
General chat and trading might solve your imbalance on quantities. They have a whole week timer, there's no real urgency.

 

[MissEcho]

Each to his own I guess. I'm actually enjoying going after the keys, my biggest worry is actually finding the opportunity to use them before they run out.Although that's proved groundless so far.
General chat and trading might solve your imbalance on quantities. They have a whole week timer, there's no real urgency.

I don't have a problem collecting the keys, just the set up for the crafting of them and the amount and type of ingredients required.

Although I will have problem with collecting them if it appears there is a disparity in the quantity of each 'type' of key that drops, ie 20 daggers/robes : 3 summoning rites etc. So far my sample after 4 hours of collecting is extremely unbalanced, however the sample size is still small, and of course the short supply is the taint ingredient one. Some bright spark may of coded the drop with a rarity level depending on type. Have to wait and see.

Wish others would post on their collections so we can actually see if there is a pattern on key drops.

 

[Frarc]

I stole plenty of taint from Zealots in the last days. I geuss i know what i should start selling on the next auction.

Keys can be traded.

There is plenty of time to collect keys by fighting,stealing and crafting. There is no need to go every day. Organise a event 1 time a week and you get the best result.

 

[Miri of Sonoma]

I have only gone a couples of times to collect keys and I don't know if it is my usual bad RNG luck but I don't seem to get keys very fast (only 1 after about 90 minutes). I am a paladin fencer reluctantly turned archer. Is this another one of those..."don't-bring-a-warrior" things I wonder??

 

[BeaIank]

I have actually collected keys faster with my chiv macer there than with my mages or my sampire.
100% cold weapons work wonders, but sometimes you find yourself dealing with a juggernaut, three or four sentinels, a minion lord, a golem and a few zealots or controllers, so you have to know how to pick your fights there or how to joust and run when things get a bit hairy.

 

[Uriah Heep]

I use an archer, not with any special equipment other than a hit lightning bow. Avg probably 2-4 drops per hour, depending on how good the RNG Gods' coffee was this morning. Plus the three new guys have the new loot on them, I have pulled some pretty good stuff (IMO) off the corpses too. Nice gold as well, having grown up when 3 gps was worth fighting over (hey, that was one more reg I could buy!) you can bet I loot it. Power crystals are worth 100 turnin points.

I'm happy with this go around, for sure. Just l0ok past the immediate need for keys, and go for the whole picture.

And if you can stand to be in there, general chat is good usually to trade your extras for something you need. As far as I can tell, the system favors no one key over the others...I come out with daggers galore, my hunting partner is always loaded with robes and rites. *shrugs*

 

[Merus]

My tactic varies based on the number of other hunters in the dungeon. With only a few folks I have better luck with my bard, though I guess that is just because he can manage larger herds at once. For straight killing speed is my thrower with a hit lightning weapon. So far it appears to me that luck does influence the drop rate... I get far more drops when I honor the mobs. I am getting 8-10 per hour (on average).

 

[Warpig Inc]

Puff Puff Pass "Oh wooowww maybe we should of used that boura fur stufffff."

 

[Gospel]

Keys farming is trivial on a bard, I get 10-15 an hour and a ton of stuff to unravel as well. And to address the bard complaints in the other thread; I use masteries and spells to heal pets during the Exodus fight and I get a drop roughly 80% of the time.

 

[Merus]

Keys farming is trivial on a bard, I get 10-15 an hour and a ton of stuff to unravel as well. And to address the bard complaints in the other thread; I use masteries and spells to heal pets during the Exodus fight and I get a drop roughly 80% of the time.

And what do you do when the group is 4 mystics standing out of range casting rc to get a drop... Nothing to heal... Were you successful getting a drop with the disco mastery alone... I doubt it.

 

[Lorddog]

add spellweaving with word of death then perhaps.

my gar cannot hold the dagger - is it necessary to hold the dagger to get into boss area?

 

[Warpig Inc]

I got a drop when I discoed and healed a fighter having a hard time with a juggy. Not damage delt.

Great balance with theese keys is the crafting. When the RNG is bending you over on one item then craft it. Problem is the brainack that chose something like taint. Put rainbows and unicorn watcher's paycheck on hold till they collect enough taint to take a party of five friends on the hunt. Then they might think not so good a choice. After that I know a vendor that sells and fast restocks ingots. Like to hold that paycheck again till they honest mine that many ingots also. Just to end the scripting issue. Sell a damn token already that lets a miner afk mine and be done with it. Double your earning with a jacking token. Triple fishing/trapping.

LORDDOG the NPC outside the old garg city enterance alters the dagger for you dropping it on him

 

[Miri of Sonoma]

Oh no! I was afraid of this...the RNG Gods STILL hate me Maybe I need to learn to sing

 

[Gorbs]

And what do you do when the group is 4 mystics standing out of range casting rc to get a drop... Nothing to heal... Were you successful getting a drop with the disco mastery alone... I doubt it.

Get a group that's not four mystics spamming rc?

 

[MrMightySmith]

""I stole plenty of taint from Zealots in the last days. I geuss i know what i should start selling on the next auction."" Id it actually taint? or is this a typo

 

[Coldren]

I often wondered for things like this... Rare crafting ingredients and whatnot.. Why isn't there a ridiculously high gold sink option to buy them from an NPC somewhere? Maybe with this new city loyalty, they could have merachnts who have a stock (Limited, long refresh) of some of these rare ingredients, but will only sell them to declared citizens for a sizable profit.. Million each or more for the most rare, maybe no less than 500k for others, and the cost goes up as they sell, and there is a cap to how many they will sell you. Could even RP it as selling limited quantities to loyal citizens to help the rebuilding effort and fund the new guard under King Blackthorn. Maybe even put a citizenship rank on it depending on the material.

Maybe it's just me, but I find making 1 million gold with my playstyle to be a sizable challenge, but even then, it's value as a gold sink could be pretty substantial.

 

[ShadowTrauma]

Sorry for taking so long to respond here MissEcho. I just don't have the in depth data points you want (yet), however if its helpful I can tell you myself that I have stolen only 3 Taint (2 in one steal), 2 Parasitic plants, a few gems, 2 Exodus key parts, and lots and lots of gold after 6+ hours in the dungeon. I also have encountered what you call unbalanced key drops in the caches and have gone on some impressive streaks, like 8 rites in a row, or even better 6 alters in a row... trading has been a large part in completing sets on runs like those. Thankfully there is a dedicated bunch on Legends that is always willing to help, honestly my issue now is I have 8+ sets (a small group of friends with extremely different play times) and some of the sets are on the way out fast.

 

[Frarc]

""I stole plenty of taint from Zealots in the last days. I geuss i know what i should start selling on the next auction."" Id it actually taint? or is this a typo

No Typo, i stole many ML reagents since the publish, and taint is one of them.

 

[ShadowTrauma]

Wow 12! *Sulks back to corner with my 3*

Hehehe someone here has magic fingers...

 

[Gospel]

And what do you do when the group is 4 mystics standing out of range casting rc to get a drop... Nothing to heal... Were you successful getting a drop with the disco mastery alone... I doubt it.

Umm, the obvious answer is I don't go with a bunch of mystics (duh?), but in case your math skills are failing you, all 4 bard skills only add up to 480. Do you think maybe 240 skill points could maybe do some damage? Ever heard of a mystic bard? Or a spellweaving bard? Or a tamer bard? Come on man don't make me do all your thinking for you.

 

[MrMightySmith]

I just wanted to make sure.... maybe ill throw stealing back on my char now lol

 

[Merus]

Umm, the obvious answer is I don't go with a bunch of mystics (duh?), but in case your math skills are failing you, all 4 bard skills only add up to 480. Do you think maybe 240 skill points could maybe do some damage? Ever heard of a mystic bard? Or a spellweaving bard? Or a tamer bard? Come on man don't make me do all your thinking for you.

You miss the point completely, but that's ok. On most of the smaller population shards (especially during off peak hours) you party with whoever else is willing to go. Second, the fact that you can use other skills to get looting rights is no justification to preventing bards from using the primary ability of their template. I promise you I can take a newly created character straight out of haven, give him a set of keys and get a drop, that does not make it ok to eliminate the ability of anyone else to use their skills.

 

[Quickblade]

You miss the point completely, but that's ok. On most of the smaller population shards (especially during off peak hours) you party with whoever else is willing to go. Second, the fact that you can use other skills to get looting rights is no justification to preventing bards from using the primary ability of their template. I promise you I can take a newly created character straight out of haven, give him a set of keys and get a drop, that does not make it ok to eliminate the ability of anyone else to use their skills.

Merus I told you the other day, they cant make Exodus directly bardable right now because his STATS & SKILLS would drop too much even if only discorded at 14% debuff. His wrestling would drop under 100, so what with 45 DCI and hit lower attack Exodus would have 20% chance to hit me and I dont count my parry 40%? He would be too easy...

I told you, to make it bardable they would need to re-up his stats and skills so that would end up the same as right now...

 

[Merus]

Merus I told you the other day, they cant make Exodus directly bardable right now because his STATS & SKILLS would drop too much even if only discorded at 14% debuff. His wrestling would drop under 100, so what with 45 DCI and hit lower attack Exodus would have 20% chance to hit me and I dont count my parry 40%? He would be too easy...

I told you, to make it bardable they would need to re-up his stats and skills so that would end up the same as right now...

I hear your argument, but I disagree. IMO Exodus is not any less powerful than Lady M, Dreadhorn, Cora, etc all of which can be discorded. If anything I think Exodus is more powerful in his natural form than virtually all other bosses except maybe Slasher.

 

[Gospel]

You miss the point completely, but that's ok. On most of the smaller population shards (especially during off peak hours) you party with whoever else is willing to go. Second, the fact that you can use other skills to get looting rights is no justification to preventing bards from using the primary ability of their template. I promise you I can take a newly created character straight out of haven, give him a set of keys and get a drop, that does not make it ok to eliminate the ability of anyone else to use their skills.

Oh I didn't miss your point, you're just wrong. Even if you refuse to acknowledge Quickblade's argument (which is absolutely correct), you still don't have a leg to stand on. Should I bring my cooking mage to Exodus and be mad that I can't damage him by using bread dough and an oven to make pointed pretzels to poke at his kneecaps? There's lots of skills that are useless against him. It's time to either adapt your template/playstyle or resolve not to go. Neither solution requires you to cry on the forums that life isn't fair.

 

[Merus]

Oh I didn't miss your point, you're just wrong. Even if you refuse to acknowledge Quickblade's argument (which is absolutely correct), you still don't have a leg to stand on. Should I bring my cooking mage to Exodus and be mad that I can't damage him by using bread dough and an oven to make pointed pretzels to poke at his kneecaps? There's lots of skills that are useless against him. It's time to either adapt your template/playstyle or resolve not to go. Neither solution requires you to cry on the forums that life isn't fair.

I certainly am not wrong. Cooking works the same at Exodus as it does anywhere else, discordance does not. I have not ask that bards get some special ability for Exodus than they do anywhere else... just that it work the same as anywhere else. Do you honestly think that if throwers got the message "you can not target that" when they attacked they would not ask for an explaination? Do you think that if mages got the message "you can not target that" they would just roll on home and do something else? If you do I think you are dreaming! Exodus is far stonger and a far tougher fight than all of the ML peerless, but you can discord them, so arguing that Exodus is already too easy to be discoable is not a valid argument.

As far as "either adapt your template/playstyle" I have already done that. My thrower is a far supieror template against Exodus than my bard, what on earth does that have to do with anything? No class, mages/warriors/bards, should be prevented from working regardless of how effective it would be. Based on the likes in the other thread I would wager there are alot more on these boards that agree with my view than oppose it.

 

[LordDrago]

Each to his own I guess.

This.

I am very glad that in this case, the devs have seen to include several paths to reach a goal.

I hope that this idea is used in many more instances.

Also, a lot of arguments on the boards and game would be defused if people would remember this a bit more.

 

[Frarc]

Wow 12! *Sulks back to corner with my 3*

Hehehe someone here has magic fingers...

Just lucky!

 

[Gospel]

I certainly am not wrong. Cooking works the same at Exodus as it does anywhere else, discordance does not. I have not ask that bards get some special ability for Exodus than they do anywhere else... just that it work the same as anywhere else. Do you honestly think that if throwers got the message "you can not target that" when they attacked they would not ask for an explaination? Do you think that if mages got the message "you can not target that" they would just roll on home and do something else? If you do I think you are dreaming! Exodus is far stonger and a far tougher fight than all of the ML peerless, but you can discord them, so arguing that Exodus is already too easy to be discoable is not a valid argument.

As far as "either adapt your template/playstyle" I have already done that. My thrower is a far supieror template against Exodus than my bard, what on earth does that have to do with anything? No class, mages/warriors/bards, should be prevented from working regardless of how effective it would be. Based on the likes in the other thread I would wager there are alot more on these boards that agree with my view than oppose it.

Sigh. There are lots of mobs that are not bardable. There are lots of creatures specifically designed to make sampire templates useless. There are lots of mobs that do reactive damage to ranged attackers making spellcasting difficult. Would you prefer all bosses were the same? That would get boring. I'm a bard too, I would love to be able to discord everything of course. But Exodus being immune hasn't put my panties in a wad. So maybe your issue is less about the game mechanics and more about your attitude.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Use the character that works best? I have a tamer, but I don't take her because she's a peace tamer who uses vet and doesn't have eval or enough mana to magery heal her pet. She can't go because of the area effect.
I have used a bard and got a drop. I used inspire, and made sure I stood within range of at least some of the party, casting EVs as my mana allowed.

Bards most certainly have a role in Exodus, but it's a support role. They are significantly good at getting the keys.

 

[Eärendil]

Yea! Provo-Stealth-Mystic. Awesome!

 

[Lady Laurel]

Okay this might be a stupid question, but I have just recently put detect hidden on my thief, and I am wondering if you have to go around the dungeon using the Detect Hidden skill every few tiles all over the place or just walking around and you will get some message or something? I tried both, though I will admit I only did the active Detect Hidden in a few rooms and all I got was that I didn't detect anything hidden. Now, my skill is only about 52 (just like the OP) and I was wondering how high I need to get it to work and how do I do it?

Thank you in advance

 

[Frarc]

If your Detect Hidden skill is high enough you will see a message when you walk around. After you seen that message just use your skill and it should reveal the chest in the area.

 

[Lady Laurel]

If your Detect Hidden skill is high enough you will see a message when you walk around. After you seen that message just use your skill and it should reveal the chest in the area.

Thank you

 

[Lady Laurel]

Template: Stealing 120, Hide 100, Stealth 75, Lockpicking GM, Detect Hidden 52 (training still), magery, med, eval.

Play Style: Detecting and looting chests, stealing from zealots.

I am hoping someone can please help me. I am not sure if I am just REALLY unlucky or if I am still doing something wrong. I worked my Detect Hidden up a little (okay, VERY little, it is now 55 lol) and went back to see if I could locate any of the chests. I stealthed around completely, I walked one line, then went down 3 spaces, walked back, down 3, rinse and repeat, through the entire dungeon. I did not get any messages or anything. The OP says she was 52 when she was able to locate the chests, so what in the world am I doing wrong?

 

[LordDrago]

I am hoping someone can please help me. I am not sure if I am just REALLY unlucky or if I am still doing something wrong. I worked my Detect Hidden up a little (okay, VERY little, it is now 55 lol) and went back to see if I could locate any of the chests. I stealthed around completely, I walked one line, then went down 3 spaces, walked back, down 3, rinse and repeat, through the entire dungeon. I did not get any messages or anything. The OP says she was 52 when she was able to locate the chests, so what in the world am I doing wrong?

What I do, is when I see the message that I have detected something hiiden, I start using detect idden actively. I also use the crystal ball of knowledge(?) that tells me when my use is easy, optimal, challenging, etc. With this, I go from optimal and gio space by space (moving) until I find where it becomes easy. This means I am getting closer, when it goes from optimal to nothing, I am moving away from the chest. It woeks kind of like the "you are getting warmer/you are getting colder game when we were kids)

My problem is that I have yet to find a key in any chest....do the traps have to be removed to get a key, or will telekinesis work without destroying they keys inside the chest?

 

[MissEcho]

do you have your journal on , you should see 'system' messages that say 'your keen senses, sense something nearby' or words to that effect. Once you get that message you need to detect hidden until a box pops up.
at 50 skill you should be sensing boxes, i was at low 40's.

 

[MissEcho]

My problem is that I have yet to find a key in any chest....do the traps have to be removed to get a key, or will telekinesis work without destroying they keys inside the chest?

You can go an hour or more and not get a key in a box, or go an hour and 5-6 or more. Seems totally random. Telekinesis works fine to remove traps, or just take the hit from the the traps, is up to you. there are 2 traps per chest, a poison trap that needs mage arch cure to get rid of, and a dart trap that stings like a bee but doesn't do much dmg.

 

[LordDrago]

You can go an hour or more and not get a key in a box, or go an hour and 5-6 or more. Seems totally random. Telekinesis works fine to remove traps, or just take the hit from the the traps, is up to you. there are 2 traps per chest, a poison trap that needs mage arch cure to get rid of, and a dart trap that stings like a bee but doesn't do much dmg.

Damn...I knew the RNG hated me, but now I think it is taking this way too far!!!!

 

[Lady Laurel]

What I do, is when I see the message that I have detected something hiiden, I start using detect idden actively. I also use the crystal ball of knowledge(?) that tells me when my use is easy, optimal, challenging, etc. With this, I go from optimal and gio space by space (moving) until I find where it becomes easy. This means I am getting closer, when it goes from optimal to nothing, I am moving away from the chest. It woeks kind of like the "you are getting warmer/you are getting colder game when we were kids)

My problem is that I have yet to find a key in any chest....do the traps have to be removed to get a key, or will telekinesis work without destroying they keys inside the chest?

do you have your journal on , you should see 'system' messages that say 'your keen senses, sense something nearby' or words to that effect. Once you get that message you need to detect hidden until a box pops up.
at 50 skill you should be sensing boxes, i was at low 40's.

The problem is, I am not getting any form of message at all (I am now 58 with no messages). It doesn't matter what time it is, I thought maybe I was just unlucky and people had already gotten to the chests, but I have tried it now multiple times.

I do play in the EC with Pinco's (with my eyesight and monitor the CC is WAY too small, and if I change the resolution on my monitor it becomes way too blurry), could that be a problem, do you not see the messages in the EC or maybe with Pinco's?

 

[Mr. Smither1]

I bet Pinco's is filtering it or something. I have only went down there one time and gotten a full set of keys from the boxes and that took almost 2 hours. I use stone form and double click the boxes and when the dart trap reveals me I just hide or smokebomb. I have to date gotten 12 alters, 6 rites, 4 daggers and 1 robe. I am pretty sure I didn't see the message if I was flying or mounted.

 

[Lady Laurel]

I bet Pinco's is filtering it or something. . . . . . . . . I am pretty sure I didn't see the message if I was flying or mounted.

I will check through Pinco's and see if there is a setting or something I have missed. Also, I have not been mounted, but will I still see the message if I am stealthed?

 

[weins201]

I have seen the message Stealthed and While riding on an Etht. Dont know about pincos settings but that is deffinatly a possibility.

 

[Lady Laurel]

Well, I checked Pinco's and I did not have the system messages disabled, but just in case since I wasn't really going to be fighting anything I decided to try the CC and see if that helped. I opened my journal, put it off to the side and spent 45 minutes in there and still no messages about anything hidden. I think my rogue is doomed

 

[Anvira]

Well, I checked Pinco's and I did not have the system messages disabled, but just in case since I wasn't really going to be fighting anything I decided to try the CC and see if that helped. I opened my journal, put it off to the side and spent 45 minutes in there and still no messages about anything hidden. I think my rogue is doomed

I use Pinco's and I see the message, not sure why you aren't

 

[Kojak]

you know you need detect hidden, right?

 

[Lady Laurel]

you know you need detect hidden, right?

I have 59 detect hidden now, and still no messages