PVP rewards

[Berethrain]

As stated, and as I believe you know, the only thing that my "not bothering" pertains to is my not bothering to be fair and argue for Fel-specific and/or PvP-specific rewards. Such deliberative and reasonable efforts on my part tend to be rebuffed, so I'm just plowing forward with an unfair and imbalanced argument. Same as Fellies have always done except my playstyle doesn't involve personal attacks on a message board or insults in-game or on message boards or ruining someone else's gameplay or any of the other lovely things the Fel lifestyle unabashedly involves.

In terms of the debate not pertaining to me, this is incorrect. First of all if you make an item I want that I can't get unless I participate in your lifestyle, that impacts me by definition.

Secondly, I have on occasion, as I've stated elsewhere and repeatedly participated in Fel things myself and may well go back to it one day if conditions improve. Said conditions do not include new rewards. If I was willing to put up with the conditions, the current level of reward would be more than sufficient for me.

A third reason, though valid, might be taken the wrong way, so I'll leave it off.

-Galen's player

You're really just repeating yourself now. You have your own biased agenda because you fail to see what you said in your second "paragraph" in both views.

As far as if "conditions improve", I don't know even know what to say to this. You're against any conditions that would improve it because of your go for broke attitude. Instead it goes to what I've already said previously, you among many others who do not pvp think its not fair because you'd have to go to fel for the same pixel crack.


So I'm just going to take this as you really have nothing of value to contribute and will carry on my way so we do not lock this thread and see another 5 spring up in place of it.

 

[Picus at the office]

So because they took away your "goodies" you quit.
PvP for the sake of PvP is DEAD.

OMG troll.

If you actually played in the PVP area you would understand that the day before the faction nerf there were piles of people playing and the day after everyone was in shock due to the destruction of thier suits. A week later some people rebuilt suits only to find that they could not run the same mutli-shard action that they could have the week before. A week after that we, the pvping people, noticed that 60% of the players just gave up and left.

If you weren't there and have nothing to add don't bother.

 

[Corpin]

The rewards are more than sufficient, you all have chosen to ignore what you have, to the point of pretending that content that is there is not there.

If nothing dropped in tram but boomsticks and totem of the voids which are both outdated and do not sell, you would be upset. The rewards we have are equivalent.

No, it's not the issue. A monster can kill me as well but the monster doesn't go onto global chat or message boards to launch into personal attacks that I will not repeat.

Nor, even more importantly, does a monster when it loses a fight seek to find ways that it didn't "really" lose. It doesn't care that I had 4/6 Chiv, or that I had Mysticism. It either lives or it dies.

PvM is about overcoming objective obstacles. You succeed or you fail. In Fel, truth is both negotiable and bully-able and there's always message board PvP. Message board PvM doesn't exist.

If you can complete one encounter of PvM you can complete it every time. PvP changes that, and makes it unpredictable. PvPers by nature enjoy competition, so they are not sensitive or upset by trash talk whenever it occurs. Maybe the issue is how society has grown... cuddly.

Someone who will come back because of smack talk would likely have come back regardless.

Most of the smack talk directed at me has clearly been

Incorrect, again. This new age of PvPers gives up easily for the time being when beaten. Smack talk makes them want to kill you, thus making them come back with a vengeance.

If you feel you have been a victim of griefing, page. There is an option for that.

Again, what you say contradicts itself. If you do Trammie things you're kind of a Trammie too by definition and you just do not wish to admit it.

I have very little interest in deco and sell what deco items I find. This does not make me a Fellie.

As a related side issue, I note with despair that the emphasis Fellies have on monetary wealth extends to RL which has led to many bizarre discussions I've seen in Fel, about how so and so only works for 2 hours a week but makes $500k a year, etc.

Tell me where can I get that slither in fel and by your definition I assure you I will no longer be a trammy. It is a requirment for me to participate in your chosen content to get an item I want, its painfully obvious you should participate in my content to get something you may want.

No they were quite effective on the field, they just didn't know the game as well as I did. If you want another example note how few Fellies can properly spell "Felucca." To me that's by definition not knowing the game.

There is one group then, pick any talented PvP guild on your shard and compare them to anyone you encounter in tram on general encounters and fighting or any other game mechanics.

I hear frequently about how predictable so and so a person is. How so and so "can only" use this move or that move.

You have this tendency to label opinion as "simple truth" as though the label itself makes it accurate.

Some templates are quite predictable to an extent. Melee PvPers are going to try and hit you. Mage PvPers are going to try to cast spells. You are confusing the smack talk in gen chat with truth.

You label me for my "biased" opinion even though I fully support trammel content. I am thankful I have trammies I can buy things from that I don't want to do in game. That is part of it.

You are biased because you do not want to have to buy things you don't want to do, not can't do.

I am fighting for balance of what you have, and you are fighting to keep the balance swayed firmly in your direction. I want BALANCE, you want absolute trammel power. Before you say it, The rewards achieved in Fel are obsolete in modern day UO.

 

[Corpin]

And again, the difference is that people PvM because they want to, hence more people do it, hence more of the content is offered to it in order to keep most of the paying customers paying.

PvP most people have to be forced to do. Also PvM is, as I've stated previously, about overcoming objective obstacles. PvP by contrast is a subjective world where winning on the message boards or messing up someone else's gameplay.

Trammel is a playstyle. PvP is a lifestyle. PvP and Fel in particular extends to message boards, to post-fight and pre-fight chat that extends to IRL. ("Duel me IRL" is a particularly scary phrase I used to hear a lot.)

*shrugs*

-Galen's player

Trammel being more popular obviously holds the weight you say it does, with that I will not argue. However that should not make PvPers conform or leave, it should still be balanced. If you are familiar with champ spawns as you say you are then go to some of the more obscure altars. If someone actually shows up to raid you I will personally transfer a character to your shard and protect your spawn.

Aside from that, PvM is something I am forced to do or not take part in. The same holds true with you over PvP. For the millionth time, if updated PvP rewards were implemented, YOU ARE NOT FORCED TO PARTICIPATE. Buy them, like I buy your trammel items.

 

[Corpin]

It does not matter what I say, you will keep using the same sayings that hold no grounds in the discussion, I'm done with the quoting. I'm fighting for balance, you are fighting for Trammel.

Take care.

 

[Corpin]

See my other reply. You can buy Slithers as easily as I can buy power scrolls.

Haven't done the grand tour of altars in some time now.

-Galen's player

Thank you for proving my point. You can buy the Fel based items if they are implemented in the future. Your points are now moot.

Again, take care.

 

[popps]

You can buy the Fel based items if they are implemented in the future.

There is a difference though, IMHO, and quite one. For players of the Felucca ruleset it is easier to go to Trammel ruleset and get what they want. They can buy it, if they want to, but they can also save up their gold and go get them on their own if they wish so.

For players of the Trammel ruleset, instead, it does not work the same way since for them it is way more difficult to go to Felucca and get what they want/need spawning there. So, chances are that it is considerably more likely that a Felucca player will go to Trammel and get what they need on their own rather than the other way around, i.e. Trammel players going to Felucca and getting on their own what they need/want, spawning there.

This said, I do not have a problem with items spawning exclusively on Felucca ruleset areas as long as they do not contribute in making characters more powerfull be it with skills, stats, gear or weaponry.

And there is a reason for this.

If PvP is harder than PvM since it means fighting against a human opponent rather than a computer controlled one, to be competitive, a player needs to be fitted in skills, stats, gear and weapons before they adventure into felucca. This means, as I see it, that all that makes a character better fit at PvP, should be obtainable in Trammel ruleset areas so that once the character is fitted to a competitive level, they can be more confident to then adventure into Felucca ruleset areas.

 

[SlobberKnocker]

the title of this thread is pvp rewards. hence i would say this is a discussion amongst the fel crowd about how to get more activity there. i find it amusing that Galen and Frodo have taken to put forth the argument that fel get nothing.

once again i think this thread should be re directed as to how to get more activity in fel in a way that doesnt detract from trammel, hence creating a win/win for all.

 

[Lady Michelle]

Like I've said everyone has the right to play UO the way they want to I play the way I want to. Like I said I don't PVP or PK, but others do its their play style. I like to think I'm above the trammy vs fel issues I know that at times I'm not, and that is the time I think gees what a &^%*# then that is the time to take a break. I use to think it was a waste of time to put items in fel because it would not get more of the player base to go there. Its not about bringing the current player base to fel we know that won't happen. Its more about keeping the fel current player base we have now, some to come back, or new customers who would want to pvp. So lets work together on keeping UO around for another 15 years or more.
I say put more content in fel for the fel players.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Remember, I was relating things Fellies had said.

No need for the personal attacks.

The argument about cross-shard PvP appears odd. Without Faction Artifacts you could of course just use regular equipment and cross-shard it. If these items are important enough to be critical to cross-shard PvP, then they are much more powerful than you are admitting in your other words.

The personal attack of saying I'm "off my rocker" does not change the fact that your argument is inconsistent with itself.

-Galen's player

If you think an expression is a personal attack..

By the way I like how you had nothing to say with regards to fel free shard pvp and the restaurant example.

They are important because it was a way to save money, not because it has 3 MR on an ornament, or a few extra resists on the fey leggings. Anyone that claimed they died because the other person was closer to the cap on diminishing returns on MR is just upset they died. This is typically what the bad players do. They claim someone beat them because their suit is better, the other person is hacking, or scripting. It's never that maybe the other person is indeed better.

Why should I be punished by them breaking a system? I already took the time to get scrolls for a lot of characters and then transfer them to all the US shards. I took the time to farm silver to get the gear that EVERYONE is able to get.

No, they aren't super powerful as you are trying to paint this picture. They are items that were built into a suit that could save you money. Having something important and powerful and two different things. You're acting as if players with faction artifacts are unkillable. If that was the case then you wouldn't have people complaining about a 20 minute stat timer. Why? because if they were unkillable stat wouldn't matter even if the timer was 4 hours. Also it's not cross shard pvp, I'm not transferring from shard to shard. I just sent characters to each shard to stay forever.

I realize you don't know what you're talking about in terms of pvp and that's fine, I think you're better off talking about plate armor and roll player things like that instead of factions and shards you don't actively participate in.

*shurgs*

 

[Corpin]

Your argument largely depends on my being able to buy power scrolls yet you somehow cannot buy Slithers.

If one is true, the other is.

-Galen's player

I can get virtually unneeded powerscrolls and Prim Lich Deco in fel. You can get everything else in tram. 1m A pop vs 150m+. If one is true, the other is imbalanced.

 

[CovenantX]

the title of this thread is pvp rewards. hence i would say this is a discussion amongst the fel crowd about how to get more activity there. i find it amusing that Galen and Frodo have taken to put forth the argument that fel get nothing.

once again i think this thread should be re directed as to how to get more activity in fel in a way that doesnt detract from trammel, hence creating a win/win for all.

Exactly. There's almost no activity in fel, because Almost everything you can get in Fel, you can get in Trammel EASIER. Power-scrolls, Primeval lich & Abyssal infernal are the ONLY exceptions. note that Primeval lich is 90+% Deco items, & Battle Mage tunic (LT sash comes from numerous champs). Doing anything in fel, other than PvP, makes it Harder on yourself, with NO added benefit or differences...

The way it should be IMHO would be to have Exclusive Content in Every facet (incase you hadn't noticed, This would mean Trammel As well!!), It's not that I don't want to go to trammel, and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with allowing me to bring my red characters there....

although you know, now that I think about the whole "red" character thing, You remember those... Ranger's Cloaks of Augmentation? (Tram only) how about it? no longer obtainable.... but tram only..

 

[Corpin]

Exactly. There's almost no activity in fel, because Almost everything you can get in Fel, you can get in Trammel EASIER. Power-scrolls, Primeval lich & Abyssal infernal are the ONLY exceptions. note that Primeval lich is 90+% Deco items, & Battle Mage tunic (LT sash comes from numerous champs). Doing anything in fel, other than PvP, makes it Harder on yourself, with NO added benefit or differences...

The way it should be IMHO would be to have Exclusive Content in Every facet (incase you hadn't noticed, This would mean Trammel As well!!), It's not that I don't want to go to trammel, and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with allowing me to bring my red characters there....

although you know, now that I think about the whole "red" character thing, You remember those... Ranger's Cloaks of Augmentation? (Tram only) how about it? no longer obtainable.... but tram only..

Ban this poster, too much common sense in one thread.

 

[SlobberKnocker]

le sigh.

it is clear to me that this is galen's tactic due to his interference in most of the threads that have been opened to try to get an engaging discusssion on the state of pvp and fel in uo in recent days.

 

[Picus at the office]

Speaking is dead on correct. The faction arti's had everything to do with building a cheap(er) suit after factoring in the cost obtaining a transfer token, scrolls(both stat and skill), other equipment, consumables and plain gold to then send the char off to a new shard. It was a hugely expensive process for those of us that did it on more than one shard let alone 5 or 10. Rarely was it one guy but more often it was a small guild sending guys all over the place and more often than not the first transfer was followed up with others as the fights got better.

Were we foolish to think that the team had a good handle on the game such that we sent partial suits off, yes we(those that sent guys) were. In hindsight I wish I had sent non-faction players off but I, personally, enjoyed the faction warfare. I never liked the idea of playing a straight red after factions became popular again as, IMO, stat was some indicator of a win or loss.

 

[Good Grief]

PvPers by nature enjoy competition.

-Severely outnumbering their opponents... aka.. ganking
-Gimpy, FotM templates (for example - AI/WoD archers, NS mages and dexxers, EO + Para, etc)
-Speeder programs and all the various scripts

If PvPers really wanted fair competition then why are all of the above the norm in PvP?

Sorry, I've been playing UO and PvPing for 12 years and all of my experiences point to the fact that the vast majority of PvPers only care about crushing their fellow players using any means neccesary, including cheating.

 

[SlobberKnocker]

stat loss won fights. i also gained respect for the guilds that continued the good fight while in stat.

i believe the faction nerf is to a large degree why you see the huge amount of fel activity going on in
atlantic at the moment. there were roughly 40 blues at the gate alone during primetime last nite.

making suits without artifacts across all the shards is just cost prohibitive without the use of faction arties.

our guild moved a crew to atl and found more fights there in an hour than we have seen on chessy
in 3 weeks.

funny thing is i saw a thread a few weeks back regarding the gold inflation on atl. Easy to believe as
i've heard a good amount of banter in guild and around that many are buying 100's of mllions in gold
on atl for the moment.

i would love to see if the Dev's could tell how much gold exists on any one shard at the moment.

 

[Corpin]

-Severely outnumbering their opponents... aka.. ganking
-Gimpy, FotM templates (for example - AI/WoD archers, NS mages and dexxers, EO + Para, etc)
-Speeder programs and all the various scripts

If PvPers really wanted fair competition then why are all of the above the norm in PvP?

Sorry, I've been playing UO and PvPing for 12 years and all of my experiences point to the fact that the vast majority of PvPers only care about crushing their fellow players using any means neccesary, including cheating.

I agree 100%, however that is a balance issue. I pvp solo 99% of the time because I do not want to belong to a zerg or gimplates.. and frankly, the inability to rely on another player makes you better. Granted, I cannot mess with grinders, harry fights etc.. but I am open to playing with those outnumbered since I have no allegiances and am generally accepted against a smaller group versus a zerg.

Stoneform protection grinders are OP and NEED attention. Just wanted to throw that in there.

Honestly, I play UO for mage duels. It is true skill vs skill. Poisoned mucked that up, but still... arch cure. The problem is the ability to find like minded pvpers which is the main reason I remain solo the majority of the time.

If you take the risk of losing out, you take the fun out.

 

[cazador]

I go by the fact that Fel is under-populated now, or we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. Further, why the need for Publish 16 to balance out server loads if people were so happy with Trammel that they didn't leave. Why need incentives or rewards at all. People would play that way because they enjoyed the lifestyle. They don't, and thus need incentives.

I go by things I've read from various dev team members in the past, that people were leaving for EQ and most people went to Trammel and never look back. Someone used to post the links pretty consistently, I never saved them, and honestly when they were posted you all ignored them anyway. (I used to document everything much better than I do now; but then I learned that no amount of documentation can counter ardent faith in the Fel lifestyle. So I stopped bothering.)

I go by the fact that Draconi stated the two least populated shards are Siege and Mugen, which are Fel-rules. (Post long ago deleted, conveniently enough.)

I go by the fact that games more-resembling Trammel are more popular than UO. (EQ; WO.) And the games resmebling Felucca are dead (Shadowbane) or have not lived up to expectations (Darkfall).

I go by the fact that some years back I did some extensive research on free shards and discovered that the populations of the pre-Trammel free shards are greatly exaggerated, and the numbers of pre-Trammel free shards relative to post-Trammel ones are, likewise exaggerated.

I go by the fact that the MMO Chart data, which some take to show a decline post-Trammel, actually show a peak after AoS, which was years after Trammel.

Most importantly, I go by the fact that they made Trammel and the game is still here a dozen years later. If there were this groundswell of support for the PvP lifestyle, Shadowbane would be alive, and UO dead, instead of the reverse.

*shrugs*

No amount of fact can counter faith. In some instances faith is admirable and in some it is not.

-Galen's player

I'm for all out pvp and I played shadowbane and honestly Galen to say it failed because of the open pvp format it failed your wrong 100% it failed because the game was super laggy more buggy that UO..I kno imagine and it just outright sucked..that's why it failed

 

[Speaking the Truth]

-Severely outnumbering their opponents... aka.. ganking
-Gimpy, FotM templates (for example - AI/WoD archers, NS mages and dexxers, EO + Para, etc)
-Speeder programs and all the various scripts

If PvPers really wanted fair competition then why are all of the above the norm in PvP?

Sorry, I've been playing UO and PvPing for 12 years and all of my experiences point to the fact that the vast majority of PvPers only care about crushing their fellow players using any means neccesary, including cheating.

What about those who fight outnumbered?

There hasn't been something that one hit kills in a long long time. Also eo/para? Yes that was a good way to kill someone 7 years ago.

A lot of bad players always blame it on cheats scripts blah blah blah. Someone has to be better than everyone, you think the top person maybe is just more skilled? Or that is just not possible?

That really isn't the norm, and typically the less skilled players are the ones zerging.

This is my experience as I have been around since Sept of 97'.

 

[Good Grief]

A lot of bad players always blame it on cheats scripts blah blah blah. Someone has to be better than everyone, you think the top person maybe is just more skilled? Or that is just not possible?

Am I saying that someone who PvPs all the time is not skilled......nope. But I am saying that there are alot of speeder programs and scripts being used in PvP. And don't try to BS me by saying they don't help because clearly they do otherwise people would not use them.

If you really have been around since 97, then you should know better than anybody that speed makes all the difference in PvP, which is why speeder programs are so widely used. Being able to outrun your opponent in either pursue or fleeing makes or breaks alot of fights. To be honest I care less about scripts because someone who practices and has good reflexes can duplicate anything a script will do. But speeder programs are the bain of my UO PvP existance and create a large divide in who wins and who loses. If everyone actually ran at the same speed, things would be very different than they are today.

In my experience the amount of players who are able to legally reach the speed cap by having a good computer and connection is very small. If you'd like to debate why there are so many speedy players running around Fel and how the speed cap actually works, please let me know because the answer is very simple......in order to reach the cap, most players are cheating.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Again, bad players use scripts, and its funny because they don't understand why they don't improve. It's not the top tier using scripts. Scripts aren't good for pvp because they will use an action timer because they can't decided whats important as they don't have situational awareness.

Its very hypocritical to say rant about them then say you don't care, its one or the other heh. Theres always going to be someone faster and always someone complaining. I remember being on t-3 when people were on dial up. The best you can do is speculate.

 

[Good Grief]

Its very hypocritical to say rant about them then say you don't care, its one or the other heh.

It's not hyprocritcal one bit to say that scripting in pvp is a problem, but way less of a problem compared to speeder programs. A RL comparision would be to say that yes burglary is bad, but nothing when compared to **** or murder.

Theres always going to be someone faster and always someone complaining. I remember being on t-3 when people were on dial up. The best you can do is speculate.

I don't remember many people being on dial up in 2010. Unless some other nerd wants to correct me, but from what I know most T-3's were commercially available until 2009 or later? Even if T-3's were common in 2005 most people I know got off dial up around 2000. Let me guess though, you work for NASA and have been on a T-1000 since 1982.

As someone else said, cheaters will lie, lie and then lie some more. Frankly I've been around long enough to see right through all your BS and know for a fact that many so called great pvpers are cheaters. I'll never forget the thread many years ago about a pvp tourney held on Atl where after the top ten were announced some guy, who's name escapes me, posted screenies of over half the top ten players with 2 well known cheat programs running. All of the screenies were from the cheaters own posts on other guild forums. Of course the thread was locked and removed, but I still have several of those shots saved.

I've also been in tons of guild's vent/ts servers and have heard it from the players themselves. I've also witness many players who for years claimed they were just awesome and everyone else sucked, then after they quit they make a point to come back 6 months-year and post about how they were in fact cheating. Of course the irony is some of those people are back playing today and posting on these forums almost daily (a certain past archer lover, now throwing fanboy comes to mind).

I don't know what you're selling, but I aint buyin. Maybe go back to arguing that UBWS is the same as -mage weapons and consider changing your name from Speaks the Truth to Full of Crap

 

[Speaking the Truth]

It's not hyprocritcal one bit to say that scripting in pvp is a problem, but way less of a problem compared to speeder programs. A RL comparision would be to say that yes burglary is bad, but nothing when compared to **** or murder.



I don't remember many people being on dial up in 2010. Unless some other nerd wants to correct me, but from what I know most T-3's were commercially available until 2009 or later? Even if T-3's were common in 2005 most people I know got off dial up around 2000. Let me guess though, you work for NASA and have been on a T-1000 since 1982.

As someone else said, cheaters will lie, lie and then lie some more. Frankly I've been around long enough to see right through all your BS and know for a fact that many so called great pvpers are cheaters. I'll never forget the thread many years ago about a pvp tourney held on Atl where after the top ten were announced some guy, who's name escapes me, posted screenies of over half the top ten players with 2 well known cheat programs running. All of the screenies were from the cheaters own posts on other guild forums. Of course the thread was locked and removed, but I still have several of those shots saved.

I've also been in tons of guild's vent/ts servers and have heard it from the players themselves. I've also witness many players who for years claimed they were just awesome and everyone else sucked, then after they quit they make a point to come back 6 months-year and post about how they were in fact cheating. Of course the irony is some of those people are back playing today and posting on these forums almost daily (a certain past archer lover, now throwing fanboy comes to mind).

I don't know what you're selling, but I aint buyin. Maybe go back to arguing that UBWS is the same as -mage weapons and consider changing your name from Speaks the Truth to Full of Crap

That's a terrible example, you complained about scripting, then said you didn't care in your next post. So your analogy makes no sense.

Did I put a date on there? Or did I say when everyone else was on dial up? You lack comprehension skills, and probably pvp skills also judging by what you said.

Losers always have an excuse for why they got beat, it's that simple.

If you can argue and tell me how they both don't use one skill to get an equivalent. Oh they both do? Fancy that.

I can tell your reading comprehension skills are lacking when you can't even write my name on this board correctly and it would have been in the quoted part of the HTML. Boy your lack of intelligence is difficult to deal with, good grief! [See I got it right and used it in two different ways]

Also your argument really didn't address that someone will always be faster than you, just like someone will always be better at pvp. I guess it's easier to make up reasons why you lost and you're bad though. Best of luck to you!

 

[Petra Fyde]

Closed, pending removal of multiple personal attacks.

 

[Tazar]

The thread has been reviewed and cleaned by multiple moderators and is now being reopened.

If the violations of the Stratics "Rules of Conduct" restart - the thread will be locked, removed, and infractions will be issued to the instigators - whether they are trammies or fellies.

 

[SixUnder]

There are no OLD SKOOL TRUE PvPers left in UO.
PvP for the sake of PvP is DEAD.
PvP in UO today is all about "Show Me the Money" as a reason to PvP.
So SAD.

It does not get any older than I sir, im old as dirt UO wise, and im still here. i kill cause i can, and i still enjoy it.

 

[SixUnder]

I have been playing on OSI/EA shards for 13 years now, 12 of those PvPing. I would like to think i am Old Skool. But since they fracked us over in the last Faction update, i find im PvPing on player run shards with many, many other people. The idea that fel is dead and no one wants to play it is far from wrong. Its more of a case of EA/OSI shards are dead and no one wants to play on them.

felluca is not dead, EA has removed the need for people to go there. everything blues or wannabe pks need is in one of the other facets.

 

[Good Grief]

EA has removed the need for people to go there.

Shouldn't the thrill and excitement of fighting other people, not AI, be enough?

Unlike some people I've always been of the opinion that people should not be forced to play a playstyle they don't enjoy. Everything should be reasonably available through different means. The problem with the attitude of forcing people into PvP that don't want to PvP is there are far to many other options out there and if given the choice to be someone's punching bag or go play a different game..... not to hard a choice.

And yes this goes both ways, people should be able to earn items through PvP if they're not fond of PvM. Or at least earn those items through PvM in a PvP enabled land. But the items should be equal, with no side given items with better stats. Faction artis with better mods than the normal ones were and still are a mistake, but that is probably another conversation.

 

[Winker]

felluca is not dead, EA has removed the need for people to go there. everything blues or wannabe pks need is in one of the other facets.

No my friend, Felucca is dead. The people who were playing in felucca have not logged in for a long time now. They still have there accounts, you can see that there houses are still standing. But they dont even play in Tram, some do but the majority of the people who enjoyed PvP have just gave up and they are off doing something else in the hope they will fix the PvP and they can come back.

 

[MalagAste]

It's not that no one wants to play in Fel.

What no one wants is to try to compete with people who speed hack, use cheat programs to move thru objects, be berated by someone with the mentality of a Kindergartner, be scammed by people who use hack programs designed to take everything from you despite your insurance, be rez killed over and over and over again... etc.... etc.... etc...

There is a reason no one goes back to Fel... sure many do try it... but after coming face to face with the above type of players over and over and NOTHING being done about it by DEV's or GM's... people QUIT going to fel... Fel became labeled as a place where all that will happen to you and more. It was filled with the worst sort of Jholes on the planet... So no one cares about Fel anymore because they want a much more civil and mature playing experience. Now you can argue my point all you want but you can not deny that I am right. Infact it's quite a bit of the above that has gone on so very long in UO that is a great reason why many folk turned to games like WoW.

Many games don't cater to cheaters. Many games actually have customer service that believes it's clients and helps them get stuff back after being hacked or scammed. They prosecute the scammers and hackers. They don't just tell you that you are an idiot and obviously a cheater because the only way someone could hack your account is if YOU were doing something illegal like downloading a 3rd party program etc.... etc..... which isn't really the truth.... EA makes the player out to be some sort of corporate scammer and treats them like a lying sack.... When it honestly doesn't cost them one dime to help someone... and return what was taken.... Infact it costs them loyal customers to treat their customers like they do... Another reason Blizzard has FAR more customers than EA.

Most people PLAY MMO's for the chance to get away and relax... not be stressed, frazzled, mistreated and berated. They play to escape and have fun. Now if your definition of fun is to berate, mistreat and generally be a Jhole then perhaps you have a MUCH larger problem. The problem with some of that is that some folk have an incredibly large anti-social disorder. When you were in school they called it being a bully... out of school and into adulthood they call it Gangster.... and you go to jail for it.

Now in-game why should having an anti-socialistic behavior be rewarded???


As for rewards and incentives to PvP..... I draw mine from RP... There are many RP reasons to PvP... many of them fun... However and I'll say this getting ganked is not fun... being on a gank squad where you always win and never lose and may or may not actually get to hit the target is not something I consider fun... that's boring may as well go kill bunnies has the same "thrill"..... being in fair combat win or lose can be fun.

You can't reward anti-social behavior because of the above. Most those that use anti-social behavior also have little to no conscience and have no problem finding ways to cheat and bilk the system... as seen time and time again with the days of old.... How many times did someone REALLY kill and return a head for bounty that WASN'T one of the murderous louts friends??????? I'm willing to bet it wasn't all that often once word got out that you could actually DO that sort of thing. The problem with trying to find some way to reward killing is that it will and can be easily abused.

Another thing that has RUINED all of UO and driven many folk away is the fact that UO remains in the "Dark Ages" of Games.... it still has 1990 based graphics... Many newer and younger players also have no loyalty at all they play a game for only a few weeks at a time until something new comes along... They work that way too and they treat others that way even relationships.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

It's not that no one wants to play in Fel.

What no one wants is to try to compete with people who speed hack, use cheat programs to move thru objects, be berated by someone with the mentality of a Kindergartner, be scammed by people who use hack programs designed to take everything from you despite your insurance, be rez killed over and over and over again... etc.... etc.... etc...

There is a reason no one goes back to Fel... sure many do try it... but after coming face to face with the above type of players over and over and NOTHING being done about it by DEV's or GM's... people QUIT going to fel... Fel became labeled as a place where all that will happen to you and more. It was filled with the worst sort of Jholes on the planet... So no one cares about Fel anymore because they want a much more civil and mature playing experience. Now you can argue my point all you want but you can not deny that I am right. Infact it's quite a bit of the above that has gone on so very long in UO that is a great reason why many folk turned to games like WoW.

Many games don't cater to cheaters. Many games actually have customer service that believes it's clients and helps them get stuff back after being hacked or scammed. They prosecute the scammers and hackers. They don't just tell you that you are an idiot and obviously a cheater because the only way someone could hack your account is if YOU were doing something illegal like downloading a 3rd party program etc.... etc..... which isn't really the truth.... EA makes the player out to be some sort of corporate scammer and treats them like a lying sack.... When it honestly doesn't cost them one dime to help someone... and return what was taken.... Infact it costs them loyal customers to treat their customers like they do... Another reason Blizzard has FAR more customers than EA.

Most people PLAY MMO's for the chance to get away and relax... not be stressed, frazzled, mistreated and berated. They play to escape and have fun. Now if your definition of fun is to berate, mistreat and generally be a Jhole then perhaps you have a MUCH larger problem. The problem with some of that is that some folk have an incredibly large anti-social disorder. When you were in school they called it being a bully... out of school and into adulthood they call it Gangster.... and you go to jail for it.

Now in-game why should having an anti-socialistic behavior be rewarded???


As for rewards and incentives to PvP..... I draw mine from RP... There are many RP reasons to PvP... many of them fun... However and I'll say this getting ganked is not fun... being on a gank squad where you always win and never lose and may or may not actually get to hit the target is not something I consider fun... that's boring may as well go kill bunnies has the same "thrill"..... being in fair combat win or lose can be fun.

You can't reward anti-social behavior because of the above. Most those that use anti-social behavior also have little to no conscience and have no problem finding ways to cheat and bilk the system... as seen time and time again with the days of old.... How many times did someone REALLY kill and return a head for bounty that WASN'T one of the murderous louts friends??????? I'm willing to bet it wasn't all that often once word got out that you could actually DO that sort of thing. The problem with trying to find some way to reward killing is that it will and can be easily abused.

Another thing that has RUINED all of UO and driven many folk away is the fact that UO remains in the "Dark Ages" of Games.... it still has 1990 based graphics... Many newer and younger players also have no loyalty at all they play a game for only a few weeks at a time until something new comes along... They work that way too and they treat others that way even relationships.

I disagree with most of what you said.

Also scammers never get punished because it's not illegal for someone to be tricked.

Also there is nothing someone can do to make you "drop" anything unless you're running a 3rd party program and accepted a script. In which case thats on said players fault for being an idiot.

Did you ever stop to think a big part of why people aren't getting banned is perhaps they aren't doing anything wrong? So many players are under the impression the only way things can be done is with some kind of super mega hack script. I honestly feel like they have no idea how uoa works, or also have the EC works for running through things and is really fast ect.

It seems like the things you have the biggest problem with is the customer service, which players can't control, and people not patting you on the back and saying good job. A lot of people will say things in an attempt to get under your skin so that you come back and want to get revenge.

You're bully gangster example is not very good. There is a huge difference between actually picking on someone, and telling someones character after they have been bested something you don't approve. If you don't want to hear people talk, turn off general and ignore players. If that's not enough the only advice I can give you is sticks and stones...

 

[kaio]

I disagree with most of what you said.

Also scammers never get punished because it's not illegal for someone to be tricked.

Also there is nothing someone can do to make you "drop" anything unless you're running a 3rd party program and accepted a script. In which case thats on said players fault for being an idiot.

Did you ever stop to think a big part of why people aren't getting banned is perhaps they aren't doing anything wrong? So many players are under the impression the only way things can be done is with some kind of super mega hack script. I honestly feel like they have no idea how uoa works, or also have the EC works for running through things and is really fast ect.

It seems like the things you have the biggest problem with is the customer service, which players can't control, and people not patting you on the back and saying good job. A lot of people will say things in an attempt to get under your skin so that you come back and want to get revenge.

You're bully gangster example is not very good. There is a huge difference between actually picking on someone, and telling someones character after they have been bested something you don't approve. If you don't want to hear people talk, turn off general and ignore players. If that's not enough the only advice I can give you is sticks and stones...

Let me ask you this.
Do you also believe that the search engines you use to find the pixel crack you want to buy, is obtained by legal means ?
Do you also believe that the 60k iron deeds, that is for sale using the above method to search for items, is obtained by legal means ?

Reason why i ask, is because your'e the one who get it wrong...
I think Malagaste hit the nail with the hammer pretty well..

The real question we need to ask is, how do we get the cheaters/smacktalkers to actually care about the game, so they will behave, and make uo a better place to be in And stop all the rampant speeding/cheating...Its a sad fact by now, that EA dosen't give a flying f***, if anyone cheats/speeds/smacktalk..

 

[MalagAste]

Let me ask you this.
Do you also believe that the search engines you use to find the pixel crack you want to buy, is obtained by legal means ?
Do you also believe that the 60k iron deeds, that is for sale using the above method to search for items, is obtained by legal means ?

Reason why i ask, is because your'e the one who get it wrong...
I think Malagaste hit the nail with the hammer pretty well..

The real question we need to ask is, how do we get the cheaters/smacktalkers to actually care about the game, so they will behave, and make uo a better place to be in And stop all the rampant speeding/cheating...Its a sad fact by now, that EA dosen't give a flying f***, if anyone cheats/speeds/smacktalk..

Exactly. And if you want to know WHY no one is around and WHY no one is in Fel then you only need look in a mirror. Because it's the PLAYERS that drove them away.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Exactly. And if you want to know WHY no one is around and WHY no one is in Fel then you only need look in a mirror. Because it's the PLAYERS that drove them away.

Actually its as I stated with things in pvp being changed for the worst, and also people getting bored especially when templates ect are very limited.

I'm sorry that people hurt your feelings when you die, but honestly sticks and stones can break your bones, but words will never hurt you.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Let me ask you this.
Do you also believe that the search engines you use to find the pixel crack you want to buy, is obtained by legal means ?
Do you also believe that the 60k iron deeds, that is for sale using the above method to search for items, is obtained by legal means ?

Reason why i ask, is because your'e the one who get it wrong...
I think Malagaste hit the nail with the hammer pretty well..

The real question we need to ask is, how do we get the cheaters/smacktalkers to actually care about the game, so they will behave, and make uo a better place to be in And stop all the rampant speeding/cheating...Its a sad fact by now, that EA dosen't give a flying f***, if anyone cheats/speeds/smacktalk..

Can you try to reword your questions? I honestly have no idea what you're trying to ask me.

The reason why I ask is you're the one who got everything wrong, but especially the grammar, so I have no idea what you're trying to imply/ask.

So now anyone that hurts your feelings is also a cheater?

I think the biggest issue is for whatever reason far too many players are so bad that when someone does something they can't they scream haxzorzzz!! Can you prove who is cheating ect? Because gms can and I've seen them take action, if you're paging on someone and nothing happens guess what..they aren't doing anything wrong. Also freedom of speech. You want to shut them up? Then kill them and you can't understand them if you or them aren't necros, which a lot of people aren't. Also you have the option to not be in any chat.

I know what you're thinking and don't worry, you're welcome.

 

[Petra Fyde]

This thread has been cleaned, again.
Can you all PLEASE stick to constructive discussion of facts and leave out the insulting attacks on other players.
The topic under discussion is:
Suitable rewards for pvpers.
It is not 'who sucks' 'who cheats' 'who belongs in Tram and has no right to an opinion on the topic' or any of the other personal attack topics that are creeping in.

 

[Winker]

This thread has been cleaned, again.
Can you all PLEASE stick to constructive discussion of facts and leave out the insulting attacks on other players.
The topic under discussion is:
Suitable rewards for pvpers.
It is not 'who sucks' 'who cheats' 'who belongs in Tram and has no right to an opinion on the topic' or any of the other personal attack topics that are creeping in.

Well done for letting the thread run without closing it! Its nice to see a Mod Moderate rather than just close it down. Sooner or latter the thread will run its course and fade away. Its better to let them get it off their chest in a civil way rather than close it down and a new thread jump up in pace of the ones that just get closed down.

 

[Tazar]

Well done for letting the thread run without closing it! Its nice to see a Mod Moderate rather than just close it down. Sooner or latter the thread will run its course and fade away. Its better to let them get it off their chest in a civil way rather than close it down and a new thread jump up in pace of the ones that just get closed down.

True - but there also comes a point where the mods get tired of doing the same thing (unraveling a thread) again and again over the same issues with the same attacks, etc. Remember - we are volunteers and we have better things to do than clean-up isle 7 (again and again)... If the same problems persist on the forums - the thread(s) will eventually be locked.

 

[Winker]

True - but there also comes a point where the mods get tired of doing the same thing (unraveling a thread) again and again over the same issues with the same attacks, etc. Remember - we are volunteers and we have better things to do than clean-up isle 7 (again and again)... If the same problems persist on the forums - the thread(s) will eventually be locked.

While I agree with everything you just said, you must keep in mind that "doing the easy thing" is not always "doing the right thing." Until they learn they have to be tolerant of each others play style. These types of thread will continue to rear their ugly head. Moderating one thread is more easy than moderating many threads on the same topic.

 

[Chazztizer]

Many years ago, it was possible to cut up killed character's bodies and the killer would keep the cut up parts which would carry the character's name. It was stopped so, I guess, there are reasons that make PvP "trophies" not possible.

I really miss collecting PK heads, my fav prizes were Mario and postal's heads on Sonoma....I lost them in an idoc, If anyone has them give me a shout. I also think the head thing stopped because of the rating's content of the game..just a guess though.

 

[Tazar]

While I agree with everything you just said, you must keep in mind that "doing the easy thing" is not always "doing the right thing." Until they learn they have to be tolerant of each others play style. These types of thread will continue to rear their ugly head. Moderating one thread is more easy than moderating many threads on the same topic.

There is a reason that "reopening a locked thread" is against the rules and infractable/bannable...

 

[Winker]

There is a reason that "reopening a locked thread" is against the rules and infractable/bannable...

It does not matter what name they call the topic it always swings in the same direction. I am reading 5-6 threads this week all with difrent headings, but by Friday i had lost the plot with them all, as they were all the same topics with difrent titles, with the same people making the same comments.

 

[Tazar]

It does not matter what name they call the topic it always swings in the same direction. I am reading 5-6 threads this week all with difrent headings, but by Friday i had lost the plot with them all, as they were all the same topics with difrent titles, with the same people making the same comments.

Exactly. It is the old bait and switch so we have a few choices...

1.) Let it run wild.
2.) Spend all our time moderating post by post.
3.) Shut it down - send the kids to the corner - and if they get back up - smack'em.

We are willing to do #2 only so long and #1 is not an option. Eventually it will come down to #3 until the kids grow up.

 

[kaio]

Can you try to reword your questions? I honestly have no idea what you're trying to ask me.

The reason why I ask is you're the one who got everything wrong, but especially the grammar, so I have no idea what you're trying to imply/ask.

So now anyone that hurts your feelings is also a cheater?

I think the biggest issue is for whatever reason far too many players are so bad that when someone does something they can't they scream haxzorzzz!! Can you prove who is cheating ect? Because gms can and I've seen them take action, if you're paging on someone and nothing happens guess what..they aren't doing anything wrong. Also freedom of speech. You want to shut them up? Then kill them and you can't understand them if you or them aren't necros, which a lot of people aren't. Also you have the option to not be in any chat.

I know what you're thinking and don't worry, you're welcome.

There is no need for you're trolling.
By questioning my grammer you gain nothing.
What part of my questions is it you dont understand ?? Or let me put it this way, were they ment to be answered ?
I know how things work, i play in fel 90% of my online time. And i know that alot cheats. And no i don't have time to wait 20min to 30min for a gm to respond

I choose to use the chat system, because i like to talk to people, or hear about bargins when people sell stuff.
Hearing people say if you don't like the chat don't use it...bla bla... Is not the right option..It's the same as saying the chat system was created for craptalk.

My feelings is not hurt...I'm trying to save the game. So far all you do is troll...

 

[Lord Frodo]

There is no need for you're trolling.
By questioning my grammer you gain nothing.

My feelings is not hurt...I'm trying to save the game. So far all you do is troll...

My hat is off to you. I think you are doing an outstanding job here as English is not your native tounge.

I choose to use the chat system, because i like to talk to people, or hear about bargins when people sell stuff.
Hearing people say if you don't like the chat don't use it...bla bla... Is not the right option..It's the same as saying the chat system was created for craptalk.

Well said.

 

[Winker]

I choose to use the chat system, because i like to talk to people, or hear about bargins when people sell stuff.
Hearing people say if you don't like the chat don't use it...bla bla... Is not the right option..It's the same as saying the chat system was created for craptalk.

My feelings is not hurt...I'm trying to save the game. So far all you do is troll...

It bothers me that People use General Chat to sell stuff. Equaly the same amount that it bothers you PvPers use it to trash talk. But you apear to think its ok to bother me with sales talk when i dont want to hear it. Thats what the trade chanel is for.

But you dont hear me crying about it, no i just tune out and dont bother using the chat system.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

It bothers me that People use General Chat to sell stuff. Equaly the same amount that it bothers you PvPers use it to trash talk. But you apear to think its ok to bother me with sales talk when i dont want to hear it. Thats what the trade chanel is for.

But you dont hear me crying about it, no i just tune out and dont bother using the chat system.

Very well said.

 

[SixUnder]

Exactly. And if you want to know WHY no one is around and WHY no one is in Fel then you only need look in a mirror. Because it's the PLAYERS that drove them away.

its the trammies who drove some away. my guild has recently come back

 

[SixUnder]

I really miss collecting PK heads, my fav prizes were Mario and postal's heads on Sonoma....I lost them in an idoc, If anyone has them give me a shout. I also think the head thing stopped because of the rating's content of the game..just a guess though.

mine are still on display in my museum, plus i have a chest of the ones that wont lock down too.