*PvP needs some Attention*

[Speaking the Truth]

Hold up.
I am saying that 1v1 CW is could use a few minor tweaks/adjustments. In group/cross healing situations there would need to be a heavier adjustment/scaling since its effectiveness is increased almost exponentially in crossheal situations.

I think this is a reasonable statement, and if you look at most of the arguments, everyone agrees.

In 1v1 situations ONLY, its more the combination of CW and other stuff (protection, stone form, Spell bugs) that cause issue.

Also in your own posts, it does seem you feel that way as well.

My biggest issue is the 3 spells rolled into one, with a quick casting time, IE its not like arcane power, or old school blade spirts. On top of the fact its very low mana cost. CW is the biggest problem out of the entire equation, adding protection and stoneform is obnoxious, but CW is the root of the problem, the others just enchance it. It makes no sense to have the ways that make the heal less potent all be immune to it in stoneform. Especially for the fact that nothing in game can resist level 5 poison except for that, not vamp embrace, not unicorn form. There are many things that have been wrong with CW and other spells that enhance, especially if a group has more numbers, you should never die. The only reason people do is because a lot the mystics are subpar, using an imbalanced spell to let them able to not die. If you were to put a top tier mystic/weaver necro ect whatever the person wants to be vs a scribe, the mystic should win every single time.

Also you did ignore the picture that I painted to counter yours, which is fine.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Possibility of Doubling Cooldown Times for Heal Potions? (Have Alchemy reduce it by 1% per 2 points in alchemy so that GM alchemist has a 50% cooldown)

Make Glass weapons non-PoFable, and lose 1 durability when shard procs and a 20% chance to lose 1 max durability.
When hit by glass shard, target should be immune to the slow effect from another shard for 45 seconds. (Bleed effect could still take place as long as its outside of the Bleed immunity duration previously mentioned.)

I still would like it if Healers became freely attackable to Aggression victims of their target.
(So if A is agressor to B and C heals A, C becomes freely attackble to B. But if B is Agressor to A and C heals A, C does not become freely attackable to B)
Kind of like a passive Agressor flag applied to the healer.

Heal pots don't need a longer cool down, I find that cures play a bigger roll in keeping someone alive 1v1. Also having a bonus is alchemy is kind of pointless since no other template can be crippled as badly as alchemy because of consumables (shatter pot). Necromancers had it pretty bad with 15 second apples, but this is in a league of its own problem wise. The fact that its a % of your pots. As soon as someone realizes you're an alchemist if they have semi competent in pvp they will be shatter potting every time they see you.

I'm indifferent about glass weps, really doesn't matter what happens to them since there are all kinds of splintering weps that aren't glass.

The healer issue however is something that would help for pvp.

 

[Logrus]

I wrote a big response to it, then deleted it because I figured I'd rather not see the thread locked.
But to sum up what I said, Half of your picture involved group play. Since I agree that CW is OP in a group, it would be a waste for me to bother replying to that portion.
The second half, you brought skill jewelry, which had nothing to do with my posts, so I ignored that portion.
You also said a mystic could prot, bug, and chug, which I've already mentioned are issues by themselves. So I ignored those.
I have never once mentioned Mana Vamp spell to counter CW mystic in prot, thats your proposal which you also say why it doesnt help so I dont know why you mentioned it all all.

And to where your arguments actually pertained to anything I said ie 1v1s
You said its impossible to completely prevent a mystic from casting his CW during a fight.
In any caster fight, you expect the occasional 6th circle spell or even 7th circle spell to make it through. I am not arguing that point.However, If they are being reliably chained, then the opponent of that caster must be one of those "D ranks" you mentioned.
You mentioned they could interrupt you to prevent you interrupting them. (Isn't that exactly why caster vs caster fighting is an acquired player skill. This doesn't help your argument at all)
Casting Focus @ Max a solo player is able to achieve is a 17% chance which is just about 1 in 6. (So out of every 6 that you should have interrupted they should get 1 through. Is CW so powerful that getting 1 out of 6 attempts through is overwhelming?).

You also ignored my posts which included, distance scaling effectiveness, increased heal reduction after cure/curse removal, in addition to increased base mana cost and added mana cost when curing or removing curses. Which address some of your concerns about mana, and also encourage a bit more awareness in group fighting.

So if you'd care to deal with what I actually said, I'd be happy to continue that discussion in a different thread, but I consider your points answered and dealt with so if you've got something new start a new thread over in spell casters, and lets move this one back to where it was a page or so back.

 

[kelmo]

I am not looking to lock this thread...

 

[Logrus]

Alchemy could use a boost. maybe having alchemy could reduce the effectiveness of Shatter potions. In addition to a more potions, possibly some extended uses for the lesser potions if the player has high alchemy skill.

Say lesser heal providing a short hp regen buff, lesser cure providing a short petal like effect, or maybe something more dynamic like reducing the strenght of the next poison received, or reducing the damage of poison pulse.
(Those probably serve better under a enhancement idea rather than a balance idea though)

I think heal potions could use a longer cooldown, it might be superfluous with the potion weight increase and shatter potions.

I should change that from Glass to Splintering.

Speaking of necros, I think spirit speak, mind rot, liche form and maybe even vengeful spirit could use a little bit of love.
Liche form (I think) isn't bleed immune, and gives -hp regen and forced on foot, which are kind of steep penalties for more mana regen. (maybe the mana regen could be pulsed so it isnt subject to diminishing returns), or maybe there could be life leech applied to spell damage while in liche form.

Maybe have spirit speak also provide a some hp regen bonus. Also remove or reduce the cooldown on use.
Could also be interesting if it were able to cure, OR remove curse only when drawing from a corpse.


Maybe a new type of bandages that heal for Half of what regular bandages do, but remove curse instead of curing.
A skill based consumable.

 

[CovenantX]

The only pvp templates you left out were old school mages and tamers. So it looks to me like there is a nice diversity of pvp templates. And I dont think anyone thinks pvp tamers are underpowered so you simply have mage issues my friend and dont wanna play a mystic mage maybe? How about a necro? They are still very powerful and you see enough of them at the gate and spawns.

hehe fun stuff , well I left out old school templates (not just mages) because they pretty much don't exist anymore *wants them to come back*, mysticism is OP when a certain combination of spells are used (stone form+protection) since you didn't read the whole thread... I always brought up the whole spec-toggling while casting spells & Tactics being required for specials, should be reversed.(Because additional changes/bug fixes were made that (IMO) make it ok to reverse those two changes)



I didn't mention tamers because they are beatable in 1v1 & group fights same with a necro-mage if you Know how to fight them... (like everything except mysticism it seems).

It has nothing to do with me not wanting to adapt I have two mystics 1 thrower & 1 nox mage and it's extremely boring playing them, ruins UO's pvp when everyone plays the same type of character.
Many people have mentioned the only ones who really want to defend overpowering skills are the ones who rely too heavily upon them because THEY don't want to adapt.
you dont see many people bashing sampires for pvm do you?


when people pvp, they play to win, why would anyone want to play something different when it only makes it harder for them to win?... does that make any sense to anyone? =X


Sorry, but some things have been OP long enough, most of the things I mentioned in my OP are things that lessen/remove the "Player-Skill" factor, I view most of it as overpowering, some don't, I don't care if you do or not, opinions are opinions, but mysticism & throwing are pretty stupid atm and have been for quite a while.

Just in case you didn't see this...

Bleak_Mythic said: ↑

This thread has been a great read thus far, combat balance will always be an ongoing task for us. We currently have the armor revamp in the works as well as a re-balancing of all weapons. Details of those changes will be given as they are ready for public testing. Just wanted to poke my head in to let you know that we are listening.​

​

A couple thoughts on the op:​

​

Mysticism - Stoneform + Protection will be looked at.​

Throwing - will be adjusted with the total weapon re-balance.​

Archery - will be adjusted with the total weapon re-balance which will bring it up to throwing levels.​

Melee Weapon Skills - Two handed weaponswill be adjusted with the total weapon re-balance and all weapon special moves are subject to change.​

​

​

I'm looking forward to these changes, and hope they come asap.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Unless it had any kind of reducing to shatter pots it would be pretty pointless. On top of that the best things to use are on very long cool down. It's too bad that to fix exp pots on the run they have made them pretty worthless. They use to be amazing for throwing into a combo. I really believe cure pots are what make a bigger difference in 1v1 than heals, not to say they aren't helpful. I don't think increasing the time on heal pots is a good idea. It will just make people run for that many seconds longer instead of 10 in pvp.

If lich form gave hp from spell damage I feel like you would be unstoppable if you oathed someone and went off, you'd heal for a fair amount and they would die. Especially if you were a mystic/necro so you could have high hpr and a healing stone to heal for 45 when that burst came.
Mind rot does need improvement. I don't know how you would improve revs, one thing I like them for is they are very efficient for dealing with stealthers.
I think spirit speak is underrated to be perfectly honest. Being able to heal through anything it has come in handy to save me from having to apple and such so I could keep it for emergencies.

Lastly since devs have at least said they've been reading lets agree that we have different views. I think 3 spells in one is too much, and its not impossible by any means to get off 1v1, and in groups its even worse. Also lets be honest a skilled necro/mystic for example should destroy a scribe no questions asked.

 

[Berethrain]

All in all, cleansing winds is a 1.75 second spell. If you can only swing at max 1.25 seconds it gives you one swing to try and interrupt the cast 1 vs 1. Interruption with a dexer template will be somewhat difficult.


Healing Pots do not need an increased timer.

Necromancy could use some attention. But I think we are starting to focus on all the things that aren't priorities in balancing pvp. More later.

 

[puni666]

Speaking of necros, I think spirit speak, mind rot, liche form and maybe even vengeful spirit could use a little bit of love.
Liche form (I think) isn't bleed immune, and gives -hp regen and forced on foot, which are kind of steep penalties for more mana regen. (maybe the mana regen could be pulsed so it isnt subject to diminishing returns), or maybe there could be life leech applied to spell damage while in liche form.

Raise Dead should resurrect fallen comrades on top of raising mobs corpses also.

 

[Logrus]

I'll agree we have different views, though as a person who primarily plays a wrestle scribe mage, I have yet to find any casting template, that ever dominated the fight without having a spell or 2 precast before I have a chance to respond.

I think one of the more degrading factors in PvP, which really there is no cure for, is the running. It seems way back in classic times, when people had more to lose, they also had a bit more honor about it. I remember people fighting to the death most of the time. I guess you could pull all mounts, but that would just mean they'd run away more slowly. Dont know what to do about that, initially factions encouraged more group, and area-centric PvP so running was almost counterproductive.

By that token I believe that the remainder or majority of the PvP community love to fight, and go looking for fights which accounts for most of the action now. Factions and old Order Chaos, gave people something to fight for, as I believe is the goal of champ spawns as well. Its less about luring players to fel, than providing a reason for the fighting, though when its centered around a farmable resource it feels like they have to PvP.

I think some of the best attention PvP could get, is a reason or cause, that makes people want to participate. Not something that they feel forced to participate. I guess this could be in game politics, town controls, resources or benefits to those who participate, (participation could extend to crafters of PvP goods). Maybe something like where town loyalty, there's faction loyalty (separate from faction membership). So people with a high faction loyalty get benefits when that faction controls a town. Or say some faction members do an epic encounter like a harrower they get their rewards from that participation,also faction supporters(not members) with high loyalty may receive a scroll as a reward.

Basically I'd like to find ways to encourage both the PvP and participation, without people feeling as its a lure. So say PvPing grants a reward, and non-PvP participation, grants a chance at reward if your loyalty group does well.

 

[Logrus]

Raise Dead should resurrect fallen comrades on top of raising mobs corpses also.

I think that both necro and mysticism, need to have ressurection, and recall capability.(Recall at least should maybe be a 0 skill spell, Every one should be able to do it.)
Maybe the person has to be standing within range of their corpse for animate dead to res them? Not sure how it would work for mysticism.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

I'll agree we have different views, though as a person who primarily plays a wrestle scribe mage, I have yet to find any casting template, that ever dominated the fight without having a spell or 2 precast before I have a chance to respond.

I think one of the more degrading factors in PvP, which really there is no cure for, is the running. It seems way back in classic times, when people had more to lose, they also had a bit more honor about it. I remember people fighting to the death most of the time. I guess you could pull all mounts, but that would just mean they'd run away more slowly. Dont know what to do about that, initially factions encouraged more group, and area-centric PvP so running was almost counterproductive.

By that token I believe that the remainder or majority of the PvP community love to fight, and go looking for fights which accounts for most of the action now. Factions and old Order Chaos, gave people something to fight for, as I believe is the goal of champ spawns as well. Its less about luring players to fel, than providing a reason for the fighting, though when its centered around a farmable resource it feels like they have to PvP.

I think some of the best attention PvP could get, is a reason or cause, that makes people want to participate. Not something that they feel forced to participate. I guess this could be in game politics, town controls, resources or benefits to those who participate, (participation could extend to crafters of PvP goods). Maybe something like where town loyalty, there's faction loyalty (separate from faction membership). So people with a high faction loyalty get benefits when that faction controls a town. Or say some faction members do an epic encounter like a harrower they get their rewards from that participation,also faction supporters(not members) with high loyalty may receive a scroll as a reward.

Basically I'd like to find ways to encourage both the PvP and participation, without people feeling as its a lure. So say PvPing grants a reward, and non-PvP participation, grants a chance at reward if your loyalty group does well.

Though everyone did have more honor, it didn't matter even if they had less honor, you could para someone until they ran out of pouches, or have a para blow from fencing that was unbreakable and same with a stun punch for wrestling. Even if they had no honor you could stop them in their tracks and there wasn't a single thing they could do about it.

Free shards always have a lot of good ideas and it takes EA years to listen. [unnamed server] has a dueling system like ours, but even better where you can rule out specific things to do the T to get fights with all the restriction or lack of restriction to tailor a fight perfectly. That said, other free shards had things I always liked. For example one had a faction system where the robe that you get when you join gained hci and dci based on the number of towns you owned. Also some of these servers have 5 minute stat loss so people seem less afraid to fight and risk being killed. To be honest though I think even in an order/chaos with no stat loss or anything people seem prone to not want to fight and avoid dying at all costs. I think this is a big reason there is a huge disparity between top tier players, a lot of the good ones are the old ones who were not afraid of a challenge and you could sync on someone with two people and kill anyone.

Also we do have things that no one uses anymore that would make for good action. If you want to talk about back in the day when there was plenty of action. Remember when you could be Factions/order-chaos/and also war. A lot of guilds were all doing all 3. Now people won't even do guild war because they'll complain that they bank sit at luna, which is a weak excuse if you really do like pvp.

 

[Logrus]

For example one had a faction system where the robe that you get when you join gained hci and dci based on the number of towns you owned..

Damn I like that idea. That could be expanded on quite a bit. Probably less complex implementation that alot of the other stuff I was thinking about.


(Kinda funny with bless, and insurance, people seem to worry about dying more rather than less)

 

[puni666]

I think that both necro and mysticism, need to have ressurection, and recall capability.(Recall at least should maybe be a 0 skill spell, Every one should be able to do it.)
Maybe the person has to be standing within range of their corpse for animate dead to res them? Not sure how it would work for mysticism.

Just add it to the list of things CW can do? Joking... Just add a spell. OR have it consume around 150 points of the healing stone.

 

[Berethrain]

I am always at a toss up about adding items to factions. It always seems to detract away from it yet at the same time those who pvped just to pvp are mostly gone. It leaves enticing people to come give it a shot. But with it being said, would adding a new item keep people in fel? The faction gear now doesn't drop in your pack like orginally hoped for it just reduces to the normal standard which somewhat defeats the point. However, we could spend threads upon threads trying to fix factions or at least improve it.

As far as balancing pvp, if they would make minor tweaks here and there and test them, there would be less need to come up with such large lists to try and do in one shot. When this happens things get rushed and the final product is usually less than desireable.

 

[Cetric]

Damn I like that idea. That could be expanded on quite a bit. Probably less complex implementation that alot of the other stuff I was thinking about.


(Kinda funny with bless, and insurance, people seem to worry about dying more rather than less)

The problem with any town owning based activity, is that the "biggest faction" will win out. So alot of players will flock to said faction to hold the best gear, and a minority will feel obligated to fight that faction outnumbered at all corners. And as we've seen before, its about impossible to balance the numbers between factions.

In addition, the gear stuff is tried and old.

 

[Berethrain]

Though I don't really care for more faction items, I recall them side stepping other issues instead of fixing them, they would be able to control the numbers in each faction by putting the balancing cap back in. This faction is full, try your allegiance to another faction or something like that.

 

[ShadowTrauma]

As far as balancing pvp, if they would make minor tweaks here and there and test them, there would be less need to come up with such large lists to try and do in one shot. When this happens things get rushed and the final product is usually less than desireable.

This is a perfectly reasonable view. I currently play sporadically because, I like the OP tend to tire of the status quo PvP scene. I believe if we had just a few pvp tweaks per publish it would bring a great deal of excitement back to the pvp scene. Whenever there is a new publish its like Christmas and I rush downstairs (to stratics), pounce on my present (publish notes), rip open the wrapping (scan the notes), only to discover Santa has given me a Polly Pocket (cool other stuff, usually) instead of the Mighty Max (PvP tweaks) I so desperately longed for!... at least I got a Polly Pocket.

In all seriousness now I would like to pose a question. If every publish there were at least 3 specific issues changed; What 3 PvP tweaks would you like to see in the next Hypothetical Publish? Please try and avoid a generic category if at all possible, example: Mysticism. or Throwing. Feel free to explain if you want to, also please note that these issues are being looked at already:
Mysticism - Stoneform + Protection will be looked at.
Throwing - will be adjusted with the total weapon re-balance.
Archery - will be adjusted with the total weapon re-balance which will bring it up to throwing levels.
Melee Weapon Skills - Two handed weaponswill be adjusted with the total weapon re-balance and all weapon special moves are subject to change.

My 3 specific issues wishlist:

1. Cleansing Winds: crosshealing effectiveness balanced.
2. Disarm: The mechanic is extremely abusive when spammed, especially in the case of warrior vs warrior.
3. Dismount: The move itself is fine and functions perfectly, but I am tired of feeling like I need Ninja on all my pvpers.

Well thats my example list. The 3rd option might be controversial I know, but its just my opinion. Please remember that "Your opinion sucks." is fine, but "Your opinion sucks because,..." is better.

Time to go play with my Polly Pocket, thanks for reading.

 

[Mentiras]

1.

Dismount: The move itself is fine and functions perfectly, but I am tired of feeling like I need Ninja on all my pvpers.

2.

I think some of the best attention PvP could get, is a reason or cause, that makes people want to participate. Not something that they feel forced to participate. I guess this could be in game politics, town controls, resources or benefits to those who participate, (participation could extend to crafters of PvP goods). Maybe something like where town loyalty, there's faction loyalty (separate from faction membership). So people with a high faction loyalty get benefits when that faction controls a town. Or say some faction members do an epic encounter like a harrower they get their rewards from that participation,also faction supporters(not members) with high loyalty may receive a scroll as a reward.

3.

Tamers can force pet to use specials (with cooldown)

those are my 3, whos next?

 

[yadiman]

I think one of the more degrading factors in PvP, which really there is no cure for, is the running. It seems way back in classic times, when people had more to lose, they also had a bit more honor about it. I remember people fighting to the death most of the time. I guess you could pull all mounts, but that would just mean they'd run away more slowly.

I know it would be a change that most wouldn't want to make for fear of breaking the status quo, but here is my suggestion ;p

Firstly, all offensive abilities work on the run. Offensive spells, ranged abilities work on the run, and bolas can also be used while mounted or on foot to snare a target for a few seconds or until 1 attack is landed. Melee would also need a charge/teleport type attack to counter ranged that run while on offense.
Secondly, improve defensive abilities but only allow them to work at their full potential when the character is walking, standing still, or trotting on a mount. Bandages, confidence, evasion, potions(add 1 sec timer), etc either wouldn't work or would have their effectiveness reduced if the character was running. Evasion, attunement, self heals, bandages etc could be improved upon what they already are while a character is not sprinting, BUT not too much because in a 1v1 fight... SOMEone should die within a few minutes.

Of course, further testing and possibly more skills would be needed to insure spell casters, melee, and ranged characters are balanced. Unfortunately i think the current UO players are too used to pvp the way it is, and as with every change, people will whine. But if you don't like hour long draws, running till their buddies show up for a gank, etc. This is how you fix it.

Also, the Order/Chaos fighting for control of towns with the winner receiving a robe with increased stats sounds cool. To prevent one side from dominating, have the town citizens help, and the fewer number of towns one side owns = the more npc citizens that help defend.

and my 2 cents on the rest of it ^^
-nerf CW (heal other)
-add purge abilities to magery, necro, melee, and ranged
-nerf disarm (spamability/immune with high dex)
-nerf stealth
-slightly nerf pet's damage and ability to interrupt spells
-and get rid of guards in Fel (why do we need them?)

 

[kaio]

Iv'e seen lots of great idea. Pets with special moves etc etc..I like alot of those.
But how do we adress the real problem with special moves ?
The real problem is chaining of special moves + SPEEDER... (most dp-ds dexxers can chain AI like 8 times in a row,without getting interrupted when/if they take dammage.)
Thats what really kills PVP in my oppinion.

 

[Capt.E]

1. Make weapon specials that are currently borked work or change them to something that does work.

2. Cleansing winds.

3. Make blue healers flag onto shared target. It's been explained, if you need clarification I can elaborate.

 

[Berethrain]

Iv'e seen lots of great idea. Pets with special moves etc etc..I like alot of those.

I don't recall how many of them do but I do know pets like the hyru (maybe it was the lesser) do such as dismount or dogs I think bleed. I'm ok with toying with the idea as long as it does not include greater dragons. Those do not need specials.

3. Make blue healers flag onto shared target

I like this.

 

[ShadowTrauma]

I think its safe to say Berethrain your point about smaller PvP tweaks was a good one. Its been interesting to see what 3 changes people would pick for the next hypothetical publish. Some lists are showing shared concerns and I look forward to seeing if the trend continues.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

I don't recall how many of them do but I do know pets like the hyru (maybe it was the lesser) do such as dismount or dogs I think bleed. I'm ok with toying with the idea as long as it does not include greater dragons. Those do not need specials.


I like this.

Greater Dragons already have two, bleed and fire breath.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Iv'e seen lots of great idea. Pets with special moves etc etc..I like alot of those.
But how do we adress the real problem with special moves ?
The real problem is chaining of special moves + SPEEDER... (most dp-ds dexxers can chain AI like 8 times in a row,without getting interrupted when/if they take dammage.)
Thats what really kills PVP in my oppinion.

If its armor ignore they can't do it that many times in a row, maybe an elf nerve strike char. Disarm is a good way to stop damage for a couple seconds, its a way to interrupt a dexer so to speak.

 

[Berethrain]

Greater Dragons already have two, bleed and fire breath.

Good point, aside from that what animals do not have specials? I dont pretend to know much about taming except all kill.

I think its safe to say Berethrain your point about smaller PvP tweaks was a good one. Its been interesting to see what 3 changes people would pick for the next hypothetical publish. Some lists are showing shared concerns and I look forward to seeing if the trend continues.

Well it seems the trend is to do many things at once and often overshoot the intentions to balance pvp. So, they have to keep going back to retweak it. I'd imagine if they did a few things here and there its more likely to come up successfull because you're not testing a lot at the same time. You're focusing on the few and developing them as you go. But we'll see what happens.

 

[puni666]

Dismount: The move itself is fine and functions perfectly, but I am tired of feeling like I need Ninja on all my pvpers.

So drop ninjitsu and get a more useful skill. Poison is nice for defense and offense now. If you're on foot just foot other people.. or deal a $#@ pile of damage to the target that dismounted you (disarm,lethal,AIAIAI, rinse repeat). Ninjitsu just for the animal form is really just a silly waste of skill points on top of being non beneficial to a group.

 

[yadiman]

Or they could just add more abilites like moving shot. Add a protection type spell where instead of preventing interuption, it allows casting on the run at a slower rate. Add a high mana cost teleport attack for melee.

The would be less of a shock to the runners / house-hiders than my previous complete idea. They could still live sometimes. And pvp would be more more fun IMO

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Casting on the run would be insane, it can be bad enough with moving shot and double hit spells. However a group of mages that could run people down and cast fs which can't miss would be out of control. Even if it was a slower casting time if you could do it on the run it would just be a matter of time before mages would get a cursor, all they would have to do is keep up and eventually said target would die. I can't see this being fair. Don't get me wrong it would be nice to have since dexers can run and heal and a mage has to stop and cast, but at the end of the day it would ruin pvp. I am not for having anything that ruins pvp, if something like that were to go in then at that point mine as well bring back up capped AI's and WoD.

 

[yadiman]

So a group of mages should NOT be able to kill 1 person?? Shrug, maybe it would ruin people's day when they die too much. And in order to not simplify mages to the level of dexers... Could make it where only 1 less effective offensive spell works on the run.

But I guess people dying is not what UO pvp is about...

 

[Speaking the Truth]

I don't believe I ever said a group of mages should not be able to kill 1 person. I merely said that it would be insane. Tell you what why don't you take a poll and get feed back about that and tell me what the rest of UO thinks. I have a hunch that the majority will not be on board with that.

It's kind of like the idea you had with reptalons having 150 wrestling, I'm not sure people would think that has place in pvp for a tameable creature to have higher skills than almost every boss/peerless in game.

 

[yadiman]

Well the reptalon idea... I also said pets should be nerfed in pvp. Maybe 150 is too much, but G.dragons already go up to 130 post-tame.

And I already alluded to the fact that people are babies and would not want anything that makes them die more. But moving shot is already in the game, so why shouldn't mages get an equivalent spell.

 

[ShadowTrauma]

I think its definately still in our best interest to stick to a few specifically targeted issues for improvement, though I certainly don't mind reading about interesting suggestions.

 

[Berethrain]

But moving shot is already in the game, so why shouldn't mages get an equivalent spell.

Mages can already run with a spell which is why the haven't given them the full out ability to cast while running.

Also, running shot is on a 4 second weapon so the fastest they could swing is 2 seconds. Assuming everything like swing speed and stamina are maxed. Flamestrike is already a 2 second spell, you give them the opportunity to run and cast that vs running shot the damage output will always be higher since FS does more damage then running shot.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Mages can already run with a spell which is why the haven't given them the full out ability to cast while running.

Also, running shot is on a 4 second weapon so the fastest they could swing is 2 seconds. Assuming everything like swing speed and stamina are maxed. Flamestrike is already a 2 second spell, you give them the opportunity to run and cast that vs running shot the damage output will always be higher since FS does more damage then running shot.

Moving shot can be reduced at 1.5, I haven't looked at a calculator to see if it can get to the 1.25 cap. However the biggest difference I see, is that moving shot has the chance to miss, spells don't miss. At least with dci plus other things to make up your defense so you have the chance to be missed. I think that's the biggest thing. People already act as if other players don't stop to cast, so if they were actually given the ability to cast on the run as these people claim..I think it would be opening pandoras box. Plus I see it being over powered vs dexers. If they mages had the ability to cast while moving and be like a dexer and just run in circles every dexer would be up in arms about it. I just can't see this change ever happening. No good would come of it.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Well the reptalon idea... I also said pets should be nerfed in pvp. Maybe 150 is too much, but G.dragons already go up to 130 post-tame.

And I already alluded to the fact that people are babies and would not want anything that makes them die more. But moving shot is already in the game, so why shouldn't mages get an equivalent spell.

But dragons can't be protected like a riding pet. Also they get destroyed with their low cold and a slayer. I also don't think that its players have a problem with dying, I think they just dont want it to be something thats absurd like WoD ect. If you were dismounted and a pet with 150 wrestling was on you, you would be in a world of trouble. Things like Cu's can already do a lot of damage and they only have gm wrestling. Imagine adding 50 extra wrestle to that..

 

[yadiman]

...Fail at thinking outside the box

Firstly, I said pets should be nerfed in pvp. I don't know why it's acceptable that 240 points gives another 600 point enemy. But i don't want to totally nerf them either. People can, after all, use revenants, demons, etc.

Secondly, of course you cannot just pick out one of my points and say it would not work... Testing and balance would have to ensue. That's why i suggested for dexers to get a teleport attack or a ranged snare (bolas). Then mages could not simply just kite the melee. Also, I suggested for only 1 less effective offensive spell to work on the run... Not flamestrike... The spell could be a 2 sec cast 10 damage spell, or something that would equal moving shot after miss chance.

But anyways, I was just hoping that the current playerbase is tired of runners, house-hiders, ganks, and all the other lame aspects of UO pvp... but i guess not. And really, they would have to also nerf defensive/healing abilities on the run as well to fix those issues. Yes, it's a drastic change that won't likely come to fruition, mostly because everyone knows how people are stubborn towards change and UO is not in the position to lose a lot of players.

 

[Berethrain]

Moving shot can be reduced at 1.5, I haven't looked at a calculator to see if it can get to the 1.25 cap.

Not sure, I did the calculator for a composite bow and it came out a max of 2 seconds. Couldn't think of another one that would be any faster to allow running shot.

But I don't really think casting on the move is a good idea.

But anyways, I was just hoping that the current playerbase is tired of runners, house-hiders, ganks, and all the other lame aspects of UO pvp

That's been UO pvp since the beginning.

 

[yadiman]

Not sure, I did the calculator for a composite bow and it came out a max of 2 seconds. Couldn't think of another one that would be any faster to allow running shot.

But I don't really think casting on the move is a good idea.



That's been UO pvp since the beginning.

Not really. Houses used to be able to be broken into. And running was only an option if your dial-up connection was vastly superior to others. Not to mention, now you can co-ordinate with your guild while you run away.

I think everyone could agree that running, house-hiding, etc. is lame, no matter how long it's been like that or not. But what they're willing to do to change that is a different story.

Anyways.... maybe they can just implement new champ spawns / events where you are locked in an area.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Not sure, I did the calculator for a composite bow and it came out a max of 2 seconds. Couldn't think of another one that would be any faster to allow running shot.

But I don't really think casting on the move is a good idea.



That's been UO pvp since the beginning.

Just checked at 60 ssi and 181 stam you can do 1.5 with a comp.

 

[Lythos-]

Here's a few things i would do to pvp: This is just my personal opinion to give some variety into todays stale pvp experience.

1- trap boxes would have up to 10 charges and weight of 10 stones per charge (i picked up a box other night from an old guildie that quit 5 years ago) This would decrease the backpack pvp due to increased weight.

2: animal form tied into hiding skill. (ever seen that pvper that was dismounted with 3 people on him and just ran off into the woods surviving?)

3: Resisting spells: would actually work! Would give a chance for spells to do no damage but still interrupt.

4: Make DCI STAND ALONE and not require mage weps or weps equipped to actually work.

5: Disarm - This is annoying to both mages and dexxers so i say 15sec timer.

6: Deathstrike - tie it into hiding only and completely remove tracking from the list. Stealth would increase damage based off real skill like tracking does now. gm hiding/ninja = 30 damage ds add gm stealth for 40 damage, 120 real skill stealth = 60 damage.

7: Bushido- Remove the anat from the evasion list. Tied to wep skill and tact only.

8: mystics- the obvious stone form & cleansing winds

9: Add ability to put double spell onto NON garg weps and give more imbuing weight on melee weps. (I saw where they were bringing archery up to par with throwers why not give regular warriors a boost too)

I know some people will argue over some of these but this is Ultima Online "where you can be anything you want" except if you pvp then you almost have to play cookie cutter templates.

 

[Berethrain]

Just checked at 60 ssi and 181 stam you can do 1.5 with a comp.

What would give you another 20-30 ssi with that much stam. Would seem hard to do.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

What would give you another 20-30 ssi or that much stam. Would seem hard to do.

It's easy to reach the hard cap of the 150 dex, then pieces having 10 stam on it. Very attainable.

You can actually reach it just with 60 ssi and 151 stam.

SSI Calc - Knuckleheads.dk

 

[Vexxed]

It's easy to reach the hard cap of the 150 dex, then pieces having 10 stam on it. Very attainable.

You can actually reach it just with 60 ssi and 151 stam.

SSI Calc - Knuckleheads.dk

Stamina works in increments of 30... 0-29 -0 Tic | 30-59 -1 Tic | 60-89 -2 Tic | 90 -119 -3 Tic | 120-149 -4 Tic | 150-179 -5 Tic | 180-209 -6 Tic | 210 + -7 Tic

So..... 1.5 Swing speed with 4 sec. weapon & 60 SSI is 150 stam heh..... Details Details.....

Or Better Yet.... 45% SSI & 180 Stam is an easier way imo to get 1.5 on a 4 Sec Wep.

 

[Berethrain]

And running was only an option if your dial-up connection was vastly superior to others.

I had to laugh because I remember playing with dial up. And if anyone picked up the house phone you were sooooo screwed. It didn't really stop anyone from trying to run, it just made the getaway chase a lot slower. lmao


And Vexxed is right about the ssi but I digress. We are becoming sidetracked.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Stamina works in increments of 30... 0-29 -0 Tic | 30-59 -1 Tic | 60-89 -2 Tic | 90 -119 -3 Tic | 120-149 -4 Tic | 150-179 -5 Tic | 180-209 -6 Tic | 210 + -7 Tic

So..... 1.5 Swing speed with 4 sec. weapon & 60 SSI is 150 stam heh..... Details Details.....

Or Better Yet.... 45% SSI & 180 Stam is an easier way imo to get 1.5 on a 4 Sec Wep.

I always say 151 to make up for if you move and lose 1 stam so you don't fall to 149 and lose .25 on your swing. I'm always in the mindset of pvp so that's why I list odd numbers like 181 or 151. Granted it would be like 157 just 1 piece with stam the rest from the pots ect.

So yes details, details. See what happens when pvp is second nature *sigh*

 

[CovenantX]

This thread has been a great read thus far, combat balance will always be an ongoing task for us. We currently have the armor revamp in the works as well as a re-balancing of all weapons. Details of those changes will be given as they are ready for public testing. Just wanted to poke my head in to let you know that we are listening.

A couple thoughts on the op:

Mysticism - Stoneform + Protection will be looked at.
Throwing - will be adjusted with the total weapon re-balance.
Archery - will be adjusted with the total weapon re-balance which will bring it up to throwing levels.
Melee Weapon Skills - Two handed weaponswill be adjusted with the total weapon re-balance and all weapon special moves are subject to change.

Is there any time-line or specific publish in which we can expect to see some/all of these changes ?

 

[CovenantX]

I would hope that The Weapon & Armor re-balance would be coming before anymore major dungeon/spawn revamp.

The Reason is because it would be easier to tune monster difficulty After weapons & armor re-balancing takes place. The last thing I want, is dungeons to be revamped due to the potential chance weapons could be Too good for PvM and not good enough for PvP (like it is now), causing another mob/dungeon revamp? I would hope the Devs feel the same way, it's just more unnecessary work, when these resources could be put to better use implementing more improvements or possibly allow the team to add new content/expansions. (since these effect both equally pvp/pvm)


Back to the primary topic.

I recommend adding poisoning to the list of re-balancing. (There is Nothing good about anything that removes from the "player skill" factor)

I would also recommend changing the way Casting Focus Works. (Mages have protection if they want to play without being interrupted), change it to work similar to Soul-charge, heal a % of the damage you take into Mana or Stamina I believe "Spell-consumption" heals HP, When it procs from taking a hit from any given spell (it's 1% so it's not exactly easy to test).

Inscription - Passive Casting focus should be removed, because well... one, it removes from the player-skill factor, but not only that, you get a 10% Bonus to SDI. The damage bonus should be enough, to make the skill competetive, additional casting focus is IMO just as bad as the "free cure" from Poisoning.

I don't believe these things Improved Pvp one bit, and I think (it's safe to assume) most PvP'ers would prefer "Player Skill" being the most important factor for PvP, over all "Chance/RNG" playing this many roles in it.
There's already Resisting Spells RNG to resist poison, that's enough IMO.

I would say, not too long ago... (about 2 years ago) dueling was still somewhat popular, the above two/three things made dueling ridiculous, it adds too much "Chance" and Removes from the "player-skill".

I originally mentioned Cure potions as a problem, because they remove part of the "Player-Skill" but at the same time timing a cure pot correctly could be considered "Player-Skill" as well, that being said I still do believe Cure pots should have a cool-down of some sort, but it is a limited resource (you will run out eventually) but basically the cure pot thing is more of a self-preference change.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

I would hope that The Weapon & Armor re-balance would be coming before anymore major dungeon/spawn revamp.

The Reason is because it would be easier to tune monster difficulty After weapons & armor re-balancing takes place. The last thing I want, is dungeons to be revamped due to the potential chance weapons could be Too good for PvM and not good enough for PvP (like it is now), causing another mob/dungeon revamp? I would hope the Devs feel the same way, it's just more unnecessary work, when these resources could be put to better use implementing more improvements or possibly allow the team to add new content/expansions. (since these effect both equally pvp/pvm)


Back to the primary topic.

I recommend adding poisoning to the list of re-balancing. (There is Nothing good about anything that removes from the "player skill" factor)

I would also recommend changing the way Casting Focus Works. (Mages have protection if they want to play without being interrupted), change it to work similar to Soul-charge, heal a % of the damage you take into Mana or Stamina I believe "Spell-consumption" heals HP, When it procs from taking a hit from any given spell (it's 1% so it's not exactly easy to test).

Inscription - Passive Casting focus should be removed, because well... one, it removes from the player-skill factor, but not only that, you get a 10% Bonus to SDI. The damage bonus should be enough, to make the skill competetive, additional casting focus is IMO just as bad as the "free cure" from Poisoning.

I don't believe these things Improved Pvp one bit, and I think (it's safe to assume) most PvP'ers would prefer "Player Skill" being the most important factor for PvP, over all "Chance/RNG" playing this many roles in it.
There's already Resisting Spells RNG to resist poison, that's enough IMO.

I would say, not too long ago... (about 2 years ago) dueling was still somewhat popular, the above two/three things made dueling ridiculous, it adds too much "Chance" and Removes from the "player-skill".

I originally mentioned Cure potions as a problem, because they remove part of the "Player-Skill" but at the same time timing a cure pot correctly could be considered "Player-Skill" as well, that being said I still do believe Cure pots should have a cool-down of some sort, but it is a limited resource (you will run out eventually) but basically the cure pot thing is more of a self-preference change.

Oddly enough people seem to try to put these in their suits to duel so then it's a battle of who has the better RNG in their favor with casting focus. On top of eaters, hpr, ect.

I always like player skill over RNG. However, I think the vast majority like the RNG on things like that casting focus, or hit fireball. Typically majority rules. I don't see a lot of RNG things being changed.