Metal/Plate Armor Ideas, Proposals, and Pitfalls

[Smokes To Much]

a warrior without necro in Vampiric Embrace, as long as you can keep up with the damage being done.

That's really the trick isn't it. Like I said, there really aren't tanks in UO, just uber healing machines, most of which are through necro forms.

That's what I was hoping would come from a change to metal armors. Being able to have actual tanks that maybe weren't dealing tons of damage, but were able to take the 60+ hits from some of the upper level creatures. Really the only "tanks" in UO are pets.

It is somewhat messed up that my red pvp parry mage has the same chance of being hit and takes the same damage amount as the best "tank" warrior you can create.

 

[Merus]

You can have both, yes, but it is not common to have both at 120.

I run 120 tactics and swap 120 resist/anatomy based on what I fight (resist for necro casters/anat for the others)

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Looking over this thread I see a fairly significant challenge to what folks me not too long ago, which is that metal armor started out from a disadvantaged position in terms of resists.

The numbers presented in here suggest to me that that proposition is wrong.

I do so wish those who mentioned this to me and thus prompted this thread would either contradict the numbers or explain how I misunderstood them.

Indeed from the numbers and other data in the tread it seems like Reforging has event to some degree counteracted the "additional mods" advantage of wood armor!

It seems like the consensus is that the issue isn't resists at all but meddability vs non-meddability, and the desire to grant to metal armor, and plate in particular, something to counter their non-meddability.

If this is right, then all they really have to do is remove meddability from the equation. The combination of Imbuing and Reforging seems like it should counteract both the unique characteristics of Wood Armor and the awesome mods of Valorite Hammers.

If removing meddability is out of the question then I return to the suggestions I've already made. A PvM-only damage absorption either lesser than that of a Swamp Dragon, OR equal to it but where you have to put some special powder --equivalent to swamp dragon barding-- that wears out. (OR Full Plate suit combined with horse barding = full swampie damage absorption.) OR some kind of resident DCI on western plate pieces that are not mage armor, not to exceed the cap but to make it easier to get to the cap, as a result of wearing the plate.

-Galen's player

 

[CovenantX]

See my point. How do you make those old pure warrior types benefit from wearing an all plate suit, while not bumping some of the currently OPed templates (sampires, throwers, wammies, etc).

I too would love to be able to have my original LJ non-chiv pure warrior template be viable again. But not by making some of these already OPed warrior templates even more powerful.

They have "Focused Casters" there needs to be a form of "Focused Warrior" (under a different name though focused warrior doesn't sound so good imo) =p

 

[Smokes To Much]

It seems like the consensus is that the issue isn't resists at all but meddability vs non-meddability, and the desire to grant to metal armor, and plate in particular, something to counter their non-meddability.

Maybe if we start a list of why metal is inferior to leather it would help narrow it down. Feel free to delete/edit/etc.

1. Medability - Self explanatory
2. Weight - Some bosses (DH for example) can not only curse, but use a special ability to drop Str to the point of armor pieces falling off.
3. Dyeability - Less of an issue now, but the metal dye tub colors suck. Leather dye tub colors are much better, they even added a white leather tub. Pigments and tukono dyes are really only options.
4. Reuse/Resale - Very small % of chars can use metal with no drop in MR or any of the other issues. Sometimes suit pieces get handed down or resold and leather is going to be more useable and will sale for a higher price than a metal piece.
5. Looks - Platemail legs cover up any sandals, boots, etc. Platemail helms cover your face and hairstyle. (I play the CC, not sure about EC).
6. Collecting - Leather is much easier to collect. Leather was not randomized so you know where to go to collect barbed leather and your time = reward unlike mining. Also leather collection can be used to train chars and pets at the same time along with earning gold.

 

[Vessel the Humakti]

Already I have posted this in UO Forum, I post it just only FYR.

I'm interested in "Non-medable armor" issue. So long time we talk about this issue in Japan, but we can't find any good idea for it.​

​

These are just only my basic thinking about this;​

For PvM worriers, Medi is not good for Mana Recovery, You should add "Hit Mana Leech" property.​

For PvP or Mages, Medi is useful for them, So they doesn't use Metal(Non-Medi) armor. It is good for Image.​

​

​

For adjustment of balance:​

​

Common view: Non-Medi Armor < Medi Armor​

​

1. add something good point for Non-medi Armor​

2. add something bad point for Medi Armor​

​

Personally, I welcome to "Add something bad point for Medi-Armor".​

For example, How about setting up the armor, if durability decreases at the rate of twice?​

It is not big bad point for Mages, but it is not good (Very bad?) for Warriors.​

Finally, a mage wears leather and a fighter wears strong metaled armor.​

​

Just only personal idea, these.​

 

[NuSair]

That's really the trick isn't it. Like I said, there really aren't tanks in UO, just uber healing machines, most of which are through necro forms.

That's what I was hoping would come from a change to metal armors. Being able to have actual tanks that maybe weren't dealing tons of damage, but were able to take the 60+ hits from some of the upper level creatures. Really the only "tanks" in UO are pets.

It is somewhat messed up that my red pvp parry mage has the same chance of being hit and takes the same damage amount as the best "tank" warrior you can create.

Hmmm, that is what a tank is, a character/pet/summon/whatever that can take damage and then heal/get healed through it. It's like with the Cora fight, when I do her, it's usually me tanking and my wife healing me. The problem is that people in UO are starting to apply characteristics from other class based games in UO when they don't really fit. The loot system still doesn't work right for healers. And honestly, should be removed until they fix it.

And I agree with what you said in the end. It is messed up.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Already I have posted this in UO Forum, I post it just only FYR.

I'm interested in "Non-medable armor" issue. So long time we talk about this issue in Japan, but we can't find any good idea for it.​

​

These are just only my basic thinking about this;​

For PvM worriers, Medi is not good for Mana Recovery, You should add "Hit Mana Leech" property.​

For PvP or Mages, Medi is useful for them, So they doesn't use Metal(Non-Medi) armor. It is good for Image.​

​

​

For adjustment of balance:​

​

Common view: Non-Medi Armor < Medi Armor​

​

1. add something good point for Non-medi Armor​

2. add something bad point for Medi Armor​

​

Personally, I welcome to "Add something bad point for Medi-Armor".​

For example, How about setting up the armor, if durability decreases at the rate of twice?​

It is not big bad point for Mages, but it is not good (Very bad?) for Warriors.​

Finally, a mage wears leather and a fighter wears strong metaled armor.​

​

Just only personal idea, these.​

The team's stated intent, and it is a good and correct intent, is to not damage existing suits.

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Maybe if we start a list of why metal is inferior to leather it would help narrow it down. Feel free to delete/edit/etc.

1. Medability - Self explanatory
2. Weight - Some bosses (DH for example) can not only curse, but use a special ability to drop Str to the point of armor pieces falling off.
3. Dyeability - Less of an issue now, but the metal dye tub colors suck. Leather dye tub colors are much better, they even added a white leather tub. Pigments and tukono dyes are really only options.
4. Reuse/Resale - Very small % of chars can use metal with no drop in MR or any of the other issues. Sometimes suit pieces get handed down or resold and leather is going to be more useable and will sale for a higher price than a metal piece.
5. Looks - Platemail legs cover up any sandals, boots, etc. Platemail helms cover your face and hairstyle. (I play the CC, not sure about EC).
6. Collecting - Leather is much easier to collect. Leather was not randomized so you know where to go to collect barbed leather and your time = reward unlike mining. Also leather collection can be used to train chars and pets at the same time along with earning gold.

Odd to cite looks given that supposedly the superior aesthetics of plate is driving the discussion.

Weight's right, of course. Dread Horn's attack is the aura of despair or some such.

Medability is the one I see cited most-often in this thread, is of the most-practical use, and the one that seems easiest to do anything about, at least until and unless the folks who told me resists were an issue poke their head in to challenge the numbers presented by others.

-Galen's player

 

[Smokes To Much]

Hmmm, that is what a tank is, a character/pet/summon/whatever that can take damage and then heal/get healed through it.

See my post above regarding my mage that has the exact same chance of being hit (probably less considering I run 70 DCI) and takes the same amount of damage as your "tank".

When a there's no difference in a mage or warrior in terms of chance to be hit or damage taken, then there's a problem.

 

[Smokes To Much]

Odd to cite looks given that supposedly the superior aesthetics of plate is driving the discussion.

I think this goes to your point about robes. If you could hide robes, then boots and sandals not showing would look good. Not sure about sashes and I think the quivers are also showing. Of course another thing is most warriors I know are rockin the crimson, so if robes, etc were underneath, that should also be hidden. But people might want the option to hide individual pieces based on their preferences.

Another thing about looks is even if your wearing full plate IMO the best warrior head piece is M&S. So you've got a full armor set, looking good, but due to the sweet mods on the M&S you're almost forced to wear sunglasses. Yeah that fits the look of a knight

 

[NuSair]

See my post above regarding my mage that has the exact same chance of being hit (probably less considering I run 70 DCI) and takes the same amount of damage as your "tank".

When a there's no difference in a mage or warrior in terms of chance to be hit or damage taken, then there's a problem.

In general, I agree with you. But if you want to talk specifics, I can guarantee my tank is taking less damage than your mage. Between feint, damage eaters, bard songs, I am pretty sure my tank takes less damage. Yes, you can toss all that on your mage as well, but you probably don't have all that on him.

But, in general, yes, I agree there is a problem and yes, it can be answered with armor.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

In general, I agree with you. But if you want to talk specifics, I can guarantee my tank is taking less damage than your mage. Between feint, damage eaters, bard songs, I am pretty sure my tank takes less damage. Yes, you can toss all that on your mage as well, but you probably don't have all that on him.

But, in general, yes, I agree there is a problem and yes, it can be answered with armor.

Would take a lot to find something with armor that'd compensate for the PvM efficiency of Sampires or other similar hybrid templates, and wouldn't mess up PvP, and wouldn't effectively nerf leather, and wouldn't make the afore-mentioned Sampires or similar hybrid templates even more efficient than they already are...

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I think this goes to your point about robes. If you could hide robes, then boots and sandals not showing would look good. Not sure about sashes and I think the quivers are also showing. Of course another thing is most warriors I know are rockin the crimson, so if robes, etc were underneath, that should also be hidden. But people might want the option to hide individual pieces based on their preferences.

Another thing about looks is even if your wearing full plate IMO the best warrior head piece is M&S. So you've got a full armor set, looking good, but due to the sweet mods on the M&S you're almost forced to wear sunglasses. Yeah that fits the look of a knight

Yeah the whole thing is to my mind nearly pointless without robe-hiding.

Some who watched the anniversary party said they said they were going to put in robe-hiding but this transcript of the first half hour of it had nothing I saw or heard about robe-hiding.

I am also concerned by the Mace and Shield issue. I have a similar issue with my Knight character. He wears plate Samurai arms (they closely enough resemble the primitive, poor-man's plate you find in Game of Thrones), the RBC (close enough to a regular plate breastplate), leather gloves, gladiator's collar, fey leggings (so chain), and....the the Folded Steel Glasses. I RP it as him being bare-headed.

I'd also like the ability to change glasses into helms with the same stats, or for that matter to change a sash into a surcoat, but the last time I proposed something like this someone posted a picture of an easy button to mock me. Still not sure what that had to do with what I was saying, but hey.

I should think that with some similar improvement in metal armor, even a fairly simple one, there'd be an incentive to make a suit that'd bypass the glasses issue.

-Galen's player

 

[Smokes To Much]

In general, I agree with you. But if you want to talk specifics, I can guarantee my tank is taking less damage than your mage. Between feint, damage eaters, bard songs, I am pretty sure my tank takes less damage. Yes, you can toss all that on your mage as well, but you probably don't have all that on him.

You could just agree not ramble on about special moves and bard songs which I doubt your warrior is a bard as well. In fact it would be alot easier to add bard skills to a mage than a warrior due to the differences in minimum skill requirements. In fact I could easily make a mage that takes the same or less damage than your warrior with less effort and less expensive armor. The only difference would obviously be the amount of damge being dealt by the 2 char types.

But yep, that was my hope with an armor revamp. Not to nerf the current suits, but give true tank chars the ability, through metal armor, to be actual tanks. But I like the "focus effect" mentioned above so that necro form warriors don't get buffed even further.

 

[NuSair]

Because of their nature, sampires ARE tanks. Some of the ways around it are- adding a skill, making armor that can't be worn by someone using necromancy- problem is something like the dirty leach stuff hurts a non-necro based tank as well as the necro based one.

 

[Vessel the Humakti]

The team's stated intent, and it is a good and correct intent, is to not damage existing suits.

-Galen's player

Why not existing suits? you want to make patch rare?
Correction should be made extensively and it cannot consent to preparing an exception.
Supposing a negative factor should not affect the existing armor, a positive factor should not influence the existing equipment, either.
I am a Japanese, not native English speaker, if you indicate in a little more intelligible plain English, It is helpful for me.

 

[Smokes To Much]

Why not existing suits?

Because telling your paying players that 90% of their suits are now garbage and need to be redone is not a good idea.

Besides there are options for making metal armor usable without effecting existing suits.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Because telling your paying players that 90% of their suits are now garbage and need to be redone is not a good idea.

Besides there are options for making metal armor usable without effecting existing suits.

*nods*

-Galen's player