Metal/Plate Armor Ideas, Proposals, and Pitfalls

[NuSair]

Somewhere I have wrote up the documentation about changes I'd make to make plate viable again. Given my work on doing the Sampire plate armor and the number of hours I poured over it, I felt I had a pretty good perspective on it. I e-mailed Jeff and never heard back. So I shelved it.

In the end, I also added cloth armor for humans/elves with material bonuses for cloth.

 

[Coldren]

Somewhere I have wrote up the documentation about changes I'd make to make plate viable again. Given my work on doing the Sampire plate armor and the number of hours I poured over it, I felt I had a pretty good perspective on it. I e-mailed Jeff and never heard back. So I shelved it.

I'd be interested in seeing it, particularly coming from you. I think you're the most qualified crafter on these forums, if not one of the top 5.

 

[Olahorand]

What about the weight of armor pieces (not imbuing weight)?
I never use ringmail, since it takes away a lot of the weight a character can carry. Especially since ringmail is one of the armor types, a new player can carry, but a new player does not have the strength needed to carry the full suite and some loot on top, this makes no really sense.
Either untie the backpack weight of a character from total carried weight or make the armor weight to strength relation play a different role instead of making a character unmovable due to overloading.
*Salute*
Olahorand

 

[MalagAste]

Wood deserves to have that higher because you cannot recycle wood. You can make all the leather/metal you want, you get pieces you don't like, you recycle. Wood, you cannot do that.

And yes, it does make a huge difference. Speaking as a crafter.

Well honestly I've always thought that was kinda stupid... since I know tons of folk who do salvage and wood is something they are always recycling.

 

[G.v.P]

I don't think they should make everything med-able, without changing special materials to add properties to armor. If everything changed to be med-able, Woodland Armor would be the best over-all armor around due to the HPR, DCI, HCI, or DI possibilities from enhancing.

All Armor: Leather - Plate types (Human/Elf) Base resist = 15 total, Studded Leather Armor & Bone Armor = 16 total non-exceptional and normal quality resources.

if you buy 100% enhance then yeah, otherwise crafting heartwood is a pancake. I'd much rather re-forge leather even if everything was medable because leather is easier to get and more reliable as far as mods go (+durability and -requirements are worthless mods because it's too easy to get powder and supersede the 95 str req.). not a lot of people are going to uogamecodes or origin store it up just to make woodland armor, plus you have to be elf and I'm not going to lose my beard just for the traits ;D.

 

[NuSair]

if you buy 100% enhance then yeah, otherwise crafting heartwood is a pancake.

Truth.

 

[NuSair]

Let me try to explain this in a way that is easier to understand. I've posted this before, but I think it applies here:

You start with 10,000 ingots and 10,000 wood. When you craft armor, you are looking for the exceptional and arms lore bonus to be more or less in specific categories. So, you will probably end up making hundreds, thousands of pieces looking for the right pieces to go forward with.

Say you are making a plate mail legs, it takes 20 ingots. Out of the 10,000 ingots, you will be able to make 500. You don't like any of those, so you smelt them down and then make 250 more. Then 125, 62, 31, 16, 8, 4, 2, 1 (something like that). Because of smelting, you were able to make an additional 499 (maybe 500, my math might be off). So, you had essentially an additional extra 10,000 ingots.

With wood, not only is the wood not recyclable, BUT you need 4 or 6 additional bark fragments with it. So, in order to get the same base results as you do with plate (or leather), you not only need twice as much wood (in this example, would be 20,000 as opposed to 10,000) but you need an additional 2,000 to 3,000 bark fragments- none of which you can get back. And those armor pieces thrown away.

And that is not taking into account if you try to enhance without the forged metal of artifacts.

Yes, the end result is pretty damn good, but really, for all you have to go through to get there, it's not over the top.

 

[CovenantX]

Wood deserves to have that higher because you cannot recycle wood. You can make all the leather/metal you want, you get pieces you don't like, you recycle. Wood, you cannot do that.

And yes, it does make a huge difference. Speaking as a crafter.

I'm pretty sure the amount returned from Metal-Salvaging depends on your skill in Mining, I know the Leather/cloth salvaging is based on tailoring skill. so unless you have mining on your smith you won't get much back from salvaging. (which makes sense, maybe I'm the only person who doesn't have mining on my crafter)
But then again I use the salvage bag to get rid of the crap items I made, not to get my ingots back.

Not to say the resources returned don't make a difference, it does, but that (to me) isn't a good enough reason to allow Wood enhanced items to have extra properties & resistance from enhancing, while metals & leathers do not.


They could always add a way to recycle wood. Now that you bring it up, you can't recycle dragon scales either can you? <-- possible Q/A.

 

[Smokes To Much]

Not to say the resources returned don't make a difference, it does, but that (to me) isn't a good enough reason to allow Wood enhanced items to have extra properties & resistance from enhancing, while metals & leathers do not.

Yeah, looking at this from a crafting stand point is not the right way to go. I don't care if plate is given the same base resists as gargoyle armor currently has, it's still not going to get used. Being able to reforge and imbue pretty much whatever you want onto a leather piece that weighs way less, is medable and the materials are the easiest to obtain, makes it the ideal choice 99% of the time.

Unless there's a tactical advantage to using plate, nothing they do will make people suddenly decide to use it.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Yeah, looking at this from a crafting stand point is not the right way to go. I don't care if plate is given the same base resists as gargoyle armor currently has, it's still not going to get used. Being able to reforge and imbue pretty much whatever you want onto a leather piece that weighs way less, is medable and the materials are the easiest to obtain, makes it the ideal choice 99% of the time.

Unless there's a tactical advantage to using plate, nothing they do will make people suddenly decide to use it.

As far as I can tell the point is that there's people who want to use it, are willing to use it, and in some cases actually are using it. It's just that they have a disincentive to use it. They are, or would be, sacrificing effectiveness by using it. It's about being more even more than it is about having some "advantage."

I have 2 characters. If they boost metal or plate armor, only one of them is likely to change his suit. The other relies upon the meddability of leather, and he is not a mage. (Assuming the team isn't dumb enough to do something that makes plate overpoweringly awesome thus in effect forcing everyone to change....Based on the little I've heard about the Virginia party and the little they have said in public, they show signs of not going that route, which is good.)

(I'm glad NuSair's posting in this thread since he has a fascinating description of a fascinating journey posted in the crating forum where he describes making a Sampire suit out of Plate.)

-Galen's player

 

[Cetric]

small things could be done as well. For instance, you could say every piece of plate mail you have on gains you a 2% additional defense chance to the cap, so a full 6 piece suit your dci cap would be 57% Other peices could do the same, say leather adds 1 bonus to elemental resists, chain/ring add 1% dci to cap and 2 to physical resist.

I dunno, just thinking out loud.

 

[NuSair]

I'm pretty sure the amount returned from Metal-Salvaging depends on your skill in Mining, I know the Leather/cloth salvaging is based on tailoring skill. so unless you have mining on your smith you won't get much back from salvaging. (which makes sense, maybe I'm the only person who doesn't have mining on my crafter)
But then again I use the salvage bag to get rid of the crap items I made, not to get my ingots back.

Not to say the resources returned don't make a difference, it does, but that (to me) isn't a good enough reason to allow Wood enhanced items to have extra properties & resistance from enhancing, while metals & leathers do not.


They could always add a way to recycle wood. Now that you bring it up, you can't recycle dragon scales either can you? <-- possible Q/A.

Yes, it requires mining.

Ummm, unless something has changed, you get ingots/leather back when you use a salvage bag, not quite sure what that statement is about.

It seems (and correct me if I am mistaken) that you are more upset about the abilities granted through Heartwood. Metal does give some extra benefits and the bonus that wood has over metal/leather in resist is little.

Even beyond what I listed above- when you enhance with Heartwood, you only have a 2 in 7 chancee of getting HCI or DI. You can get Luck 40, Durability 50%, Lower Requirements 20%, Damage Increase 10%, Lower Weight 50%, Hit Chance Increase 5%, Mage Armor (taken from UOGuide). So, even if you use the Forged Metal of Artifacts, you have a 100% chance of succeeding at the enhance, but you still only have a 2 in 7 (1 in 7 in you are looking for 1 specific property- less than 15%) chance of getting one of the good properties.

And when you don't. That entire piece- all the materials, all the time that went into getting those materials is gone. I don't think you seem to realize just how much time and effort go into making even just a single piece of this armor, from start to finish. Plus, in the end, you will probably (85% of the time) end up with a piece that is pretty much useless.

And yes, recycling makes a HUGE difference.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

One additional point is that this discussion will matter a lot less to people unless they put in some way to hide a robe.

People who were able to watch the Virginia party said they were currently thinking of putting in a simple (from our end!) "hide robe" option in the context menu. Sounds good to me. (This being UO it's all-too-likely that there is some hidden disadvantage I am not thinking of.)

As an illustration of how tied in the armor issue is to the robe issue, I note that the same character who might be interested in plate also would hide the robe. (Indeed, he'd hide the robe even without any armor changes; his Samurai plate arm piece works well-enough aesthetically.)

Think, though, of how cool it would be aesthetically to walk into a room with your robe on, then hide it when fighting starts.

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

small things could be done as well. For instance, you could say every piece of plate mail you have on gains you a 2% additional defense chance to the cap, so a full 6 piece suit your dci cap would be 57% Other peices could do the same, say leather adds 1 bonus to elemental resists, chain/ring add 1% dci to cap and 2 to physical resist.

I dunno, just thinking out loud.

Indeed, the only way they could reasonably increase the cap on something to deal with this issue is in the manner you describe: Have a corresponding increase in another cap associated with another kind of armor.

-Galen's player

 

[Smokes To Much]

I'll wait and see what the team comes up with. But at this point I just don't see this being worth the Dev time considering the very small amount of char types that would/should benefit from this change.

Basically the only char I can see benefiting from boosting plate is an elf with no casting skills.

 

[NuSair]

I'll wait and see what the team comes up with. But at this point I just don't see this being worth the Dev time considering the very small amount of char types that would/should benefit from this change.

Basically the only char I can see benefiting from boosting plate is an elf with no casting skills.

I think all character types can benefit, depending on how it's done.

Then again, the document I wrote up revises all armor, not just plate- and adds cloth armor for humans/elves.

 

[Smokes To Much]

I think all character types can benefit, depending on how it's done.

Why should every char type benefit? Certain types of chars are already OPed and don't need to any more benefits.

Then again, the document I wrote up revises all armor, not just plate- and adds cloth armor for humans/elves.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you're not a Dev so your document is irrelevant and knowing the Devs there's a fair chance any changes they make are going to bork things up (ie..faction artis changes). And really there's not a huge problem with the differences in armor currently, at least not compared to some of the other aspects of the game.

 

[Obsidian]

Wood deserves to have that higher because you cannot recycle wood. You can make all the leather/metal you want, you get pieces you don't like, you recycle. Wood, you cannot do that.

And yes, it does make a huge difference. Speaking as a crafter.

This perpetuates the condition we have now where most warriors use wood armor. I agree with the notion that all other materials than wood need to have a similar property bonus and slightly increased resistance. The idea is not to make everyone switch away from wood and make a new class of uber armor, but rather to add diversity across all of the existing armor types and materials.

 

[NuSair]

Because the game changes. There is always something people are going to believe is overpowered. Tramers, greater dragons, sampires, archers, wraith archers, wraith throwers, tank mage, necro bard... take your pick.

Actually, Jeff came out specifically and asked for input, and without trying to sound too full of myself, I doubt there is a more qualified person to talk about plate, crafting it and it's limitations. Maybe some as qualified, but no one more so.

 

[NuSair]

This perpetuates the condition we have now where most warriors use wood armor. I agree with the notion that all other materials than wood need to have a similar property bonus and slightly increased resistance. The idea is not to make everyone switch away from wood and make a new class of uber armor, but rather to add diversity across all of the existing armor types and materials.

The problem I see then is that if you do not change wood armor, then you have to make it so that the bump you give to the other materials is just as restrictive as it is to get the high end wood armor.

Other than the rare Blood Wood pieces (and Oak for Luck), you don't see wood other than Heartwood used for those armors. If you make a leather or metal even close to Heartwood without the problems of resource gathering/recycling, then that makes wood armor useless.

 

[NuSair]

This perpetuates the condition we have now where most warriors use wood armor. I agree with the notion that all other materials than wood need to have a similar property bonus and slightly increased resistance. The idea is not to make everyone switch away from wood and make a new class of uber armor, but rather to add diversity across all of the existing armor types and materials.

More.... there is always something going to be considered the top end that people are going to strive for/copy. So what if they all wear Wood? Before that everyone wore leather, unless it was the Mage Armor Samurai Plate. There is always going to that to end tier stuff, and there isn't anything wrong with that.

 

[Smokes To Much]

More.... there is always something going to be considered the top end that people are going to strive for/copy. So what if they all wear Wood? Before that everyone wore leather, unless it was the Mage Armor Samurai Plate. There is always going to that to end tier stuff, and there isn't anything wrong with that.

Then why both even changing what is currently happening with most people wearing leather?

 

[NuSair]

Do you like to troll just for the sake of trolling? Not meant as an attack, but just an honest question.

There is a difference in 'all warriors wear wood' and 'everyone wears leather'.

 

[Smokes To Much]

Do you like to troll just for the sake of trolling? Not meant as an attack, but just an honest question.

I'm not trolling, simply asking questions and wondering why some of the already top tier char types (sampires, throwers, etc) need any more of a bonus. I guess when someone challenges mr know it all...it's trolling right? Face it, you may know a little about crafting, but there's alot of people who know more about top end PvM and certainly PvP, which is where all the awesome armor and weapons get used.

There is a difference in 'all warriors wear wood' and 'everyone wears leather'.

Dude get off the wood kick. Most warriors aren't even wearing wood anymore.

You're totally looking at this from a crafting standpoint which as I said earlier is wrong. If plate is currently crap then why are some of the most valueable and sought after warrior pieces made of plate (Animated Legs and Gladiators Collar).

 

[ShadowTrauma]

There is a difference in 'all warriors wear wood' and 'everyone wears leather'.

I don't think that Smoke is "trolling", it just seems he is misunderstanding what you are trying to say. I would love to read about the proposed changes you came up with in your document. It's always interesting to me to view peoples suggestions. There is often varied ways to solve many issues.

 

[NuSair]

I'm not trolling, simply asking questions and wondering why some of the already top tier char types (sampires, throwers, etc) need any more of a bonus. I guess when someone challenges mr know it all...it's trolling right? Face it, you may know a little about crafting, but there's alot of people who know more about top end PvM and certainly PvP, which is where all the awesome armor and weapons get used.



Dude get off the wood kick. Most warriors aren't even wearing wood anymore.

You're totally looking at this from a crafting standpoint which as I said earlier is wrong. If plate is currently crap then why are some of the most valueable and sought after warrior pieces made of plate (Animated Legs and Gladiators Collar).

I never said plate was crap. Hell, I was the one that started the Sampire in Plate threads in the crafter/warriors forum here. I think plate is awesome. It's not as good as wood (heartwood armor, that is).

As for warriors not wearing wood... most of the ones I see are wearing wood (and even some of the archers). Except my wife and I who are rocking full plate mail suits.

Not, it's not because you are 'challenging' me, it's just that each thing I say you seem to contradict. I am all for good discussion.

And for the record, I am pretty good at PvM too.

 

[NuSair]

I don't think that Smoke is "trolling", it just seems he is misunderstanding what you are trying to say. I would love to read about the proposed changes you came up with in your document. It's always interesting to me to view peoples suggestions. There is often varied ways to solve many issues.

You're probably right- when I spend a lot of time on the stratics boards, I tend to get touchy.

I'll think about posting it.

 

[Smokes To Much]

Not, it's not because you are 'challenging' me, it's just that each thing I say you seem to contradict.

I know, it's because I'm of the opinion that whatever issue there is with people not wearing plate has nothing to do with the crafting aspect. So everything you keep repeating regarding resource collection, recycle rates and base resists is meaningless. Point of fact - wood is by far the worst to collect and cannot be recycled, yet everyone and their dog was/is rocking wood (especially pre-reforging) simply for the HCI.

Most people and certainly anyone doing high end PvM and PvPers wear things that give them a tactical advantage. So you can increase platemail's base resists, make wood recycleable, whatever from the crafting aspect and it won't change a damn thing.

Also my other major point is that when I look at the char types that should be wearing plate. None of them except for the pure warrior (which doesn't even exist anymore) need further bonuses. Sampires, Throwers, Wammy's are all top of the food chain in either PvM, PvP or both (minus the stoneform/mystics, which is another topic). These chars, ones who don't need medable armor and probably arent benefiting from the 20/20 focus/med from human JoAT do not need even more bonuses that enhancing platemail might give them.

 

[Cetric]

Base resist changes won't alter much since leather being medable is the sole reason it is used like it is. Plate and the like needs a big boost in something else...or..... make EVERYTHING medable, then give different armor types different abilities. Seeing a mage in full plate and a warrior in full leather doesn't really make too much sense obviously, but i deifnitly look forward to the day hopefully in the near future where we can see some platemail wearing war hammer wielding guy prancing about fell yew smacking people around, and not looking like a complete noob.

I've been pretty bored with uo lately, so a armor and heavy weapons revamp really peeks my interest. Would love to smack someone around with a hally wearing the "heavy archer" suit from the days of old.

 

[Smokes To Much]

I've been pretty bored with uo lately, so a armor and heavy weapons revamp really peeks my interest. Would love to smack someone around with a hally wearing the "heavy archer" suit from the days of old.

See my point. How do you make those old pure warrior types benefit from wearing an all plate suit, while not bumping some of the currently OPed templates (sampires, throwers, wammies, etc).

I too would love to be able to have my original LJ non-chiv pure warrior template be viable again. But not by making some of these already OPed warrior templates even more powerful.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Base resist changes won't alter much since leather being medable is the sole reason it is used like it is. Plate and the like needs a big boost in something else...or..... make EVERYTHING medable, then give different armor types different abilities. Seeing a mage in full plate and a warrior in full leather doesn't really make too much sense obviously, but i deifnitly look forward to the day hopefully in the near future where we can see some platemail wearing war hammer wielding guy prancing about fell yew smacking people around, and not looking like a complete noob.

I've been pretty bored with uo lately, so a armor and heavy weapons revamp really peeks my interest. Would love to smack someone around with a hally wearing the "heavy archer" suit from the days of old.

I have the impression about as many people get bored when things don't change as get frustrated when they do.

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

In all honesty if the consensus is that the armors are even as it is and meddability is the only factor making metals in general and/or plate in particular not viable, then the discussion is rather pointless, unless one wants change for the sake of it and change for the sake of change alienates as many people as, or more people than, it pleases.

However, I've been made aware recently of the possibility that meddability is not the only factor, hence my making this thread.

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

See my point. How do you make those old pure warrior types benefit from wearing an all plate suit, while not bumping some of the currently OPed templates (sampires, throwers, wammies, etc).

I too would love to be able to have my original LJ non-chiv pure warrior template be viable again. But not by making some of these already OPed warrior templates even more powerful.

Per the numbers, with the right slayer axes such a template should be viable now.

I mean, look, they won't nerf Sampires, and unless they do, nothing will change that template being the most-viable warrior template.

Anything else they do can only buff the other warrior templates, and that carries its own risk.

But Sampire isn't the only viable Warrior template, it's not the only way to solo a paragon balron, paragon succubus, or Dread Horn.

Sampire, Mystic Thrower in Stone Form, what have you, all of those hybrid templates....The most efficient methods for this stuff, but not the only method.

-Galen's player

 

[Smokes To Much]

But Sampire isn't the only viable Warrior template, it's not the only way to solo a paragon balron, paragon succubus, or Dread Horn.

Let me see you solo any peerless or top end paragon not using a necro form warrior or the throwing skill........

While there may be a couple of other templates that can do it, they're not going to be doing it in 15 mins or less.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Let me see you solo any peerless or top end paragon not using a necro form warrior or the throwing skill........

While there may be a couple of other templates that can do it, they're not going to be doing it in 15 mins or less.

Please read my words before you respond to them.

I plainly admitted that all of those hybrid templates were the most-efficient methods. Further I suggested that no armor changes will change that basic truth.

-Galen's player

 

[Smokes To Much]

I did read your words..clearly you didn't read or even bother to answer my question. I'm guessing that's because you already know the answer which is most effective as u claim is far different from the ONLY way to solo top level paragons and peerless bosses.

 

[ShadowTrauma]

In all honesty if the consensus is that the armors are even as it is and meddability is the only factor making metals in general and/or plate in particular not viable, then the discussion is rather pointless, unless one wants change for the sake of it and change for the sake of change alienates as many people as, or more people than, it pleases.

However, I've been made aware recently of the possibility that meddability is not the only factor, hence my making this thread.

-Galen's player

I would say that you were definately right to post this topic, especially because you are attempting to be impartial on the issue.

The ability to med isn't the only factor, but it can be conceded that it is one of the reasons for the disparity in armor selection. I think what many posters are trying to state is that there is currently no decisive reason to use any armor sets other than leather.

Here is some data gathered (thank you Stratics and UOGuide) to show a tiny fraction of what I am implying:

*Using the most talked about armor types in this thread.*

Leather
Base resists: 15 - 2/4/3/3/3 (most balanced spread of resists)
Pieces: 6
Material bonus: Horned - 11/Barbed - 12
Weight total: 16 stones male | 10-8 stones female
Medable: Yes

Plate
Base resists: 15 - 5/3/2/3/2
Pieces: 6
Material bonus: Verite - 12/Valorite - 13
Weight total: 31 stones male | 25 stones female
Medable: No

Plate - Samurai
Base resists: 15 - 5/3/2/3/2
Pieces: 5
Material bonus: Verite - 12/Valorite - 13
Weight total: 29 stones
Medable: Yes

Wood - Difficult and expensive to make, but can come with extra properties.
Base resists: 15 - 5/3/2/3/2
Pieces: 5
Material bonus: Heartwood - 16/Bloodwood and Frostwood - 18
Weight total: 26 stones
Medable: No

What I see when I look at that data is: If you take leather and compare it to another category the pros for leather exceed anything plate can offer and only marginally matches with wood, because of wood armor's unique attributes and high resists. It just doesn't make sense that one armor set can seemingly do it all, each set should have balanced advantages and disadvantages. The problem is that the other types of armor lack "something" to balance their cons. In an ideal system people would have a reason to choose between different sets of armor to fill varied roles.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I did read your words..clearly you didn't read or even bother to answer my question. I'm guessing that's because you already know the answer which is most effective as u claim is far different from the ONLY way to solo top level paragons and peerless bosses.

You know how you can really tell I know?

I said it.

Here! I'll copy/paste!

"Sampire, Mystic Thrower in Stone Form, what have you, all of those hybrid templates....The most efficient methods for this stuff, but not the only method."

No armor change will bring other warrior templates up to the level of the various hybrid templates. More goes on in those templates than can be duplicated by armor. Cat's out of the bag, they either have to nerf the templates and deal with the consequences, or be ok with the results.

I've already repeated myself on this point, what, 2 or 3 times now, and you still act as though I somehow don't get it.

Those templates are by far the most-efficient for this stuff. They aren't the only way but they are by far the most effective.

There you go! Two more times!

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I would say that you were definately right to post this topic, especially because you are attempting to be impartial on the issue.

Thank you, and thank you for posting the data.

-Galen's player

 

[Smokes To Much]

Those templates are by far the most-efficient for this stuff. They aren't the only way but they are by far the most effective.

*sigh*

Man you're slow.... I'm not disagreeing that necro form warriors and/or throwers are the top tier chars. Say it four hundred times and still don't answer my question.

WHAT OTHER TEMPLATES ARE EVEN CAPABLE OF SOLOING TOP END PARAGONS AND PEERLESS BOSSES??????????

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

*sigh*

Man you're slow.... I'm not disagreeing that necro form warriors and/or throwers are the top tier chars. Say it four hundred times and still don't answer my question.

WHAT OTHER TEMPLATES ARE EVEN CAPABLE OF SOLOING TOP END PARAGONS AND PEERLESS BOSSES??????????

You yourself admitted that other templates could, just not in 15 minutes. And you were correct when you said it.

I'm not going to get into details here, because apparently unlike you I see this as a discussion, not a pissing contest. But I am an honest man, and have seen one Peerless, multiple paragon balrons and succubi, about a dozen or so Dark Fathers, and a few dozen lesser Doom bosses fall to a non-Sampire template.

It takes too long to be worth it and it gets rough, but it can be done and done consistently.

The Sampires and other such hybrids are by far the most-efficient, but using other templates it can be done.

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I would say that you were definately right to post this topic, especially because you are attempting to be impartial on the issue.

The ability to med isn't the only factor, but it can be conceded that it is one of the reasons for the disparity in armor selection. I think what many posters are trying to state is that there is currently no decisive reason to use any armor sets other than leather.

Here is some data gathered (thank you Stratics and UOGuide) to show a tiny fraction of what I am implying:

*Using the most talked about armor types in this thread.*

Leather
Base resists: 15 - 2/4/3/3/3 (most balanced spread of resists)
Pieces: 6
Material bonus: Horned - 11/Barbed - 12
Weight total: 16 stones male | 10-8 stones female
Medable: Yes

Plate
Base resists: 15 - 5/3/2/3/2
Pieces: 6
Material bonus: Verite - 12/Valorite - 13
Weight total: 31 stones male | 25 stones female
Medable: No

Plate - Samurai
Base resists: 15 - 5/3/2/3/2
Pieces: 5
Material bonus: Verite - 12/Valorite - 13
Weight total: 29 stones
Medable: Yes

Wood - Difficult and expensive to make, but can come with extra properties.
Base resists: 15 - 5/3/2/3/2
Pieces: 5
Material bonus: Heartwood - 16/Bloodwood and Frostwood - 18
Weight total: 26 stones
Medable: No

What I see when I look at that data is: If you take leather and compare it to another category the pros for leather exceed anything plate can offer and only marginally matches with wood, because of wood armor's unique attributes and high resists. It just doesn't make sense that one armor set can seemingly do it all, each set should have balanced advantages and disadvantages. The problem is that the other types of armor lack "something" to balance their cons. In an ideal system people would have a reason to choose between different sets of armor to fill varied roles.

Interesting numbers; thank you. The number seem to challenge the premise I was told, which is that the metal armors actually have lower total resists before the high-end runic stuff is added.

Anyone know if it's doable to have Plate have extra properties from crafting similar to Wood and make it basically the human Wood? Hell maybe make it human only save for the Plate-based artifacts, like the Heart of the Lion, like the Wood armor is elf-only because we humans are too fat.

-Galen's player

 

[Gorbs]

Ultimately, runic crafting, imbuing, and reforging leaves us with the following statements: the reason to wear leather is it's medable, the reason to wear plate is for fashion, and the reason to wear wood is for the property bonuses and higher resists on enhance. I'll ignore stone because I don't know of any reason to use it and will let someone else champion its cause.

If we're interested in the RP aspect I don't think it's unreasonable to not make plate or wood medable without using an item property. This probably leaves leather as is with no changes such that it is the preferred material for mages. Metal / Platemail should be centered around damage absorbtion for warrior / meat shield types. I would probably leave the resist spreads alone, but add in a mechanic where a character wearing matching types of metal armor receives a bonus. For example, 3 pieces of platemail could receive a 6% damage absorption chance. Damage absorption could work similar to Feint where it cuts down on how much damage a character takes. If the character had 5 pieces of platemail it could be a 10% chance, which I would propose as the cap. Chain and ring could get a similar property added with some new mechanic. Wood armor is already pretty awesome with the chance to get 5 HCI or 10 DI from heartwood. I'd probably leave it as is right now.

 

[Cetric]

i have to say, outside of pvm mana leeching, none of this will matter if leather is the only straight up medable armor, unless base damage on heavy weapons was at a point that speed was good and specials were not fully neccesary.

I have dexers that are human for the sole purpose of joat med/focus and medable armor. It is a MONSTER difference as far as pvp is concerned. I've considered gearing one all out in heartwood, but at the end of the day, the mana bonus from joat and medable armor is too big to even be overcome well by the gained properties of heartwood.

Does anyone know why pieces like the helm of insight and the 20hci leggings have gone unused forever? its because they are non-medable (and more recently, underpowered) Why is it that a helmet with 30 hit chance on it goes unused for the most part? Answer? Non-medable....

 

[NuSair]

WHAT OTHER TEMPLATES ARE EVEN CAPABLE OF SOLOING TOP END PARAGONS AND PEERLESS BOSSES??????????

Between healing, potions, trapped boxes, apples, confidence, life leach, ect... it's quite possible. My parry warrior solos rikktor consistently, rarely dies and does it under 15 minutes, I haven't tried other bosses because I really don't see the need to. If I can solo rikktor, pretty sure Mephtis, Baracoon will also fall. Maybe Semidar... might give that one a run. Band Aids are pretty quick when you have 180 stamina. And when you toss on 120 parry, 120 bushido, 45 DCI, HLA.... it works.

Oh yeah, and 100 or 120 Chivalry.

 

[Smokes To Much]

Between healing, potions, trapped boxes, apples, confidence, life leach, ect... it's quite possible. My parry warrior solos rikktor consistently, rarely dies and does it under 15 minutes, I haven't tried other bosses because I really don't see the need to. If I can solo rikktor, pretty sure Mephtis, Baracoon will also fall. Maybe Semidar... might give that one a run. Band Aids are pretty quick when you have 180 stamina.

It can be done, I sure with alot of jousting, but nowhere near as easy or quick as using a necro form warrior or thrower and your chance of taking a dirt nap is probably alot higher, provided you don't run away.

Btw for being such a self proclaimed PvM expert, you should know stamina has nothing to do with bandaids.

 

[NuSair]

It can be done, I sure with alot of jousting, but nowhere near as easy or quick as using a necro form warrior or thrower and your chance of taking a dirt nap is probably alot higher, provided you don't run away.

Btw for being such a self proclaimed PvM expert, you should know stamina has nothing to do with bandaids.

Hmmm, no jousting. Feint, Evasion work pretty well. And it's just as quick as my sampire doing Rikktor. Now, leveling up the spawn is different, yes. But killing the boss, not really.

Dex/Stamina... you know what I meant, but you are right, lol.

 

[NuSair]

In terms of fighting bosses, a warrior without necro in Vampiric Embrace, as long as you can keep up with the damage being done, will out damage a sampire. Because with a Sampire, you usually have to sacrifice Anatomy/Tactics to fit in the template. And since VE doesn't leach mana, you'll still be able to do the same special moves.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

In terms of fighting bosses, a warrior without necro in Vampiric Embrace, as long as you can keep up with the damage being done, will out damage a sampire. Because with a Sampire, you usually have to sacrifice Anatomy/Tactics to fit in the template. And since VE doesn't leach mana, you'll still be able to do the same special moves.

Everyone I know has both anat and tactics on their sampire.

Also with the healing, it's dex based and can never go faster than 4 seconds since it's every 20 dex(1 second off your heal) and the last thresh hold is at 140(since you can't get to 160 because the cap is 150).

 

[NuSair]

You can have both, yes, but it is not common to have both at 120.