Let's give thieves some love...

[The Predator]

Based on the most recent Town Hall....I believe that I saw a piece around the "Ghost of Exodus" where thieves will have some new types of engagement. That has some excitement. But, what else can we do to "revive" this template?

It appears to me that the grand majority of PvP thieving is limited to either spawns, Yew Gate, factions, or "guild stealing" --- unless you are a pretty good persuasion thief.... Unfortunately, insurance typically limits what you can steal.

Monster stealing and Artifact stealing can get old pretty quick.

Does anyone have a good idea to bring back the "good ole days" of PvP thievary?

 

[silent]

How about allow stealing in trammel and if you're succesful in stealing the item if it's insured you get the gold instead of the item? All rules apply for weight and you'll be flagged gray and can be freely attacked in trammel. To avoid griefing have a cool down timer before you can target the same person.

 

[The Predator]

How about allow stealing in trammel and if you're succesful in stealing the item if it's insured you get the gold instead of the item? All rules apply for weight and you'll be flagged gray and can be freely attacked in trammel. To avoid griefing have a cool down timer before you can target the same person.

As much as I would the ability to steal from players in Trammel --- I do not see that being popular among the player base -- but it is a good idea. However, it would be interesting if we were awarded a "bounty" of gold when attempting to steal an insured item in general. I assume whatever the value is to insure the item would be withdrawn from the targeted player's bank and deposited into the bag of the thief.....so it would still give the victim an opportunity to kill the thief and reclaim what was stolen.

I like that....good idea.

 

[AirmidCecht]

If they put new items to steal I would hope that instead of another spawn spot, they put it in Fel only and on an NPC with AI that you have to find, chase down and cleverly attempt to steal from to keep it interesting. Make the item in his pockets as random as anything he might have stolen from this town or that town.

For PvP stealing I don't think they'll put anything in Tram side but you can accomplish the above in Fel very nicely. If you are successful at stealing an insured item, you get the gold value or a 'replica' of it dropped in your pack.

 

[weins201]

If your idea means the Old days when you stole someones weapon then while fighting their bandies, and eventually killing them, to just leaving them defenseless - well they are long dead. Of course you could go to Seige if you wanted.

But sadly your idea of stealing is leaps and bounds above what most people here think, since you actually mean stealing. And i mean acquiring goods or services without the paying for them.

to Silent - stealing gold for the cost of insurance is pointless since you could never aquire any amount that way to make it worth your effort.

Items that are stolen need to have some value to make it worth the risk of even losing your insurance. But since most players have more than enough Bless deeds to insure multiple sets of armor, I doubt stealing will EVER be what it was.

 

[ShadowTrauma]

This is a good topic to post Predator. I just think that one mistake made was mentioning Trammel and any sort of involuntary player on player interaction. I have always played in Fel primarily, but it is a mistake to forget that many people wanted a safe haven from these kinds of acts. Any topic that even hints at one persons playstyle vs. anothers never ends well, Fel vs Tram is always a lost cause.

Back to the topic of the insurance idea. It is an interesting thought and I could see it being implemented relatively easy.
The example I am picturing is: Thief disarms player A and attempts to steal weapon X. Weapon X is insured and costs player A 600 gold in insurance. Thief gets 600 gold from player A's bank.
Is it really a feasible and exciting enough mechanic to revitalize thieving? I'm not so sure.

 

[Ron Silverbeard]

Ok but what would happen if the player got 0 gold in bank....

 

[The Predator]

If they put new items to steal I would hope that instead of another spawn spot, they put it in Fel only and on an NPC with AI that you have to find, chase down and cleverly attempt to steal from to keep it interesting. Make the item in his pockets as random as anything he might have stolen from this town or that town.

For PvP stealing I don't think they'll put anything in Tram side but you can accomplish the above in Fel very nicely. If you are successful at stealing an insured item, you get the gold value or a 'replica' of it dropped in your pack.

Having an "NPC instance" where you could get something random would also be intriguing -- maybe with a small chance to get a nice decorative item or rare item? And if you visiblty approach the NPC, it will vanish so you would need to be stealthy.

The only problem with doing a [replica] version of an item would be the potential for abuse. I think it would have to be an "even switch" -- taking from the victim and giving it to the thief.

 

[The Predator]

If your idea means the Old days when you stole someones weapon then while fighting their bandies, and eventually killing them, to just leaving them defenseless - well they are long dead. Of course you could go to Seige if you wanted.

But sadly your idea of stealing is leaps and bounds above what most people here think, since you actually mean stealing. And i mean acquiring goods or services without the paying for them.

to Silent - stealing gold for the cost of insurance is pointless since you could never aquire any amount that way to make it worth your effort.

Items that are stolen need to have some value to make it worth the risk of even losing your insurance. But since most players have more than enough Bless deeds to insure multiple sets of armor, I doubt stealing will EVER be what it was.

I agree, you need to have something tangible to bring enough desire. That's what makes this an interesting discussion. Thank you for your points and opinions.

 

[The Predator]

This is a good topic to post Predator. I just think that one mistake made was mentioning Trammel and any sort of involuntary player on player interaction. I have always played in Fel primarily, but it is a mistake to forget that many people wanted a safe haven from these kinds of acts. Any topic that even hints at one persons playstyle vs. anothers never ends well, Fel vs Tram is always a lost cause.

Back to the topic of the insurance idea. It is an interesting thought and I could see it being implemented relatively easy.
The example I am picturing is: Thief disarms player A and attempts to steal weapon X. Weapon X is insured and costs player A 600 gold in insurance. Thief gets 600 gold from player A's bank.
Is it really a feasible and exciting enough mechanic to revitalize thieving? I'm not so sure.

I agree -- I think we need to omit any ideas that involve bringing PvP thievary to Trammel -- people are there a safe haven, not to worry about get robbed.

Not sure if it is, but maybe as opposed to giving just the "insurance value" in gold...maybe 5,000 - 10,000 gold? That could draw more incentive...

 

[The Predator]

Ok but what would happen if the player got 0 gold in bank....

Looks like it could be a good day for the thief....

 

[ShadowTrauma]

Ok but what would happen if the player got 0 gold in bank....

Well first of all any player with 0 gold in the bank is already in trouble as he has no money for insurance, if thats what you are referring to. The more I think about it though, the more I agree with Weins. In the majority of instances you would never be able to steal enough gold to have any real value/impact. I put the example up there with the intent of helping people visualize what had been suggested, hopefully we get some more interesting ideas. It is still a good topic to post about.

Not sure if it is, but maybe as opposed to giving just the "insurance value" in gold...maybe 5,000 - 10,000 gold? That could draw more incentive...

Not a bad improvement, the thief would have to watch his weight limit more carefully and that is more significant hit to the victim. Is it exciting enough by itself to thieves? I'm not yet daydreaming.

 

[AirmidCecht]

The only problem with doing a [replica] version of an item would be the potential for abuse. I think it would have to be an "even switch" -- taking from the victim and giving it to the thief.

Ah abuse, I never factor in the dishonesty in stealing

 

[ShadowTrauma]

Ah abuse, I never factor in the dishonesty in stealing

You made me smile. Your idea on the NPC is a good one, looking forward to reading more creative ideas from other people. Maybe someone will play off that... *wanders off thinking to himself*

 

[The Predator]

Not exactly a PvP idea-- but maybe a way to improve stealing from monsters would be a chance to get an imbuing resource or mining gem? This would make it much more interesting, and a heck of a lot more fun then just farming them in the Abyss.

 

[Ron Silverbeard]

Uhuh, dont get me wrong - i LOVE the idea making thievery interresting again

I just want to make sure everything gets a look on - and from my understanding, if you insure your stuff your gold will be withdrawn immediatly, and you could go and take the rest of your gold out of the bank box...whatever sense this would make, but its possible hehe - you get in trouble if you die THAN since you cant get insta re-insurance..

What about random spawning chests in the depths of horrible dungeons deepest levels that could have a chance for a nice stealable inside?
No opening chances without Lockpicking skill, traps could still be removed by skill or tele, but with TELE there might still be the chance you got hit by a hidden trap?
What would be inside? Well, thats what has to be thought about...but you need to steal it, cant just take it...

 

[The Predator]

Uhuh, dont get me wrong - i LOVE the idea making thievery interresting again

I just want to make sure everything gets a look on - and from my understanding, if you insure your stuff your gold will be withdrawn immediatly, and you could go and take the rest of your gold out of the bank box...whatever sense this would make, but its possible hehe - you get in trouble if you die THAN since you cant get insta re-insurance..

What about random spawning chests in the depths of horrible dungeons deepest levels that could have a chance for a nice stealable inside?
No opening chances without Lockpicking skill, traps could still be removed by skill or tele, but with TELE there might still be the chance you got hit by a hidden trap?
What would be inside? Well, thats what has to be thought about...but you need to steal it, cant just take it...

The idea of doing the random spawning chests with the need of both Lockpicking and Remove Trap would bring the elements of a "pure rogue" back in the game. I like this as well. You know what would really bring this template alive? If that nice little goodie was any available server birth item....

I would almost guarantee you that everyone would make this type of character if they had a shot to get some of that pixel crack that is no longer obtainable. I'm sure some of the rare collectors that have server births would be unhappy....however...I wasn't too thrilled when the new casino was launched and the "blue glass" was made no longer rare.

Would be super cool if one chest spawned a month, at random, that has say a two story statue?

 

[Ron Silverbeard]

Well umm..maybe replicas of it yes...and the blue glass, not so sure it was that rare (the green is) you could get from a pot of eggnog too on click so...no trouble there

Since i collect myselfe rares...no server births - it would hurt the Rares Collector Profession (yes it is a profession)
But thats only my opinion

 

[The Predator]

Well umm..maybe replicas of it yes...and the blue glass, not so sure it was that rare (the green is) you could get from a pot of eggnog too on click so...no trouble there

Since i collect myselfe rares...no server births - it would hurt the Rares Collector Profession (yes it is a profession)
But thats only my opinion

The "blue" glass is a server birth --- and it could be filled with ale, wine and liquor. The glass from eggnog was always full....I usually kept mine empty because it looks sweet.

To "protect" the rare market, I think that seems fair to put a [replica] tag to perserve the rarity of other server births.

 

[Gorbs]

I'm afraid to suggest anything here. With the possible implementation of battleground shards for pvp it may make sense to add perks to the ruleset for thieves. I don't know that we can get away from insurance on normal rulesets given the item property centric gameplay. In a battleground environment perhaps the reward/loot items would not be cursed but also not insurable. For example, a reward might be a legendary artifact weapon or armor piece with ideal stats or a piece of new deco. Some mechanic of the battleground might cause the reward to be available. There would then be the chance for players to steal / loot it from eachother. Ultimately, there should be some deciding factor that determined whether the item could be brought back to the final possessor's home shard when the battleground completed. I'm obviously making a lot of assumptions here, and the idea is ripe for exploitation without some checks and balances...but it might bring some of that old feel back to the game.

Alternately, if PvM is your game, I would add a reason to have a thief to your party. One possibility would be for some champs/peerless/high level mobs to have items of fairly low significance which could be stolen by a thief. A successful steal might act like a debuff on the mob. For example, a spellcaster might get confused when it's insignificant item was stolen and stop casting spells for 30 seconds. They would have to bump the number of times mobs could be stolen from...or at least for certain encounters.

That's all I have.

 

[The Predator]

With the possible implementation of battleground shards for pvp it may make sense to add perks to the ruleset for thieves. I don't know that we can get away from insurance on normal rulesets given the item property centric gameplay. In a battleground environment perhaps the reward/loot items would not be cursed but also not insurable.

Battleground shard? Can you please ellaborate? Was this brought up in the Town Hall? I didn't catch the whole thing, just bits and pieces. I think my one big question when I hear this is this a "portal" shard, or a new shard all together for PvP?

 

[ShadowTrauma]

It has been officially brought up, but there is no solid factual information on it. Which is why in my opinion we shouldn't concern ourselves with it in regards to this topic and get back to dreaming up some practical "thieving" ideas. The "super thief chest" is another cool idea. The only issues being the challange to reward ratio and what both would consist of.

 

[The Predator]

It has been officially brought up, but there is no solid factual information on it. Which is why in my opinion we shouldn't concern ourselves with it in regards to this topic and get back to dreaming up some practical "thieving" ideas. The "super thief chest" is another cool idea. The only issues being the challange to reward ratio and what both would consist of.

Agreed. Hmm....and maybe this could be another use for the "Tracking" skill --- this could help you locate the chest when you get into the dungeon. Almost another form of treasure hunting that requires stealing.....could be interesting.

 

[cazador]

Ideas for revamp

- Must have 300 hours as an apprentice thief and complete quests for the thief guild master to gain entry..(all current thieves are grandfathered in)

- Once allowed in and embraced by your fellow thieves you become grey to the world..whether in fel or tram..and freely attackable (stealing from players only allowed in fel)

- You become green to other thieves in the guild regardless of faction alliance and are not open to steal from or kill..without hurting you thief notoriety..

- You may steal any item that is not equipped for its gold value times 3 which is then withdrawn from the victim bandbox and delivered to you in check form..

- Cooldown for items being stolen is once every real 24 hours

- An item may be stolen up to 20 times-insured 40 times-blessed(which is shown when checking stats on the item)and at that point becomes cursed for 3 days at that point the item becomes stealable unless brought to a thief guild master where u can pay to have it reset for a nominal fee based on the thieves that stole it from your notoriety's in the thief guild

...so an example is there are 7 tiers of notoriety for thieves
Novice - 1
Apprentice - 2
Adept - 3
Master - 5
Grandmaster - 6
Elder - 8
Legendary - 10

Each tier has a point value attached to it which I put next to the rank..which at that point all totals are added up so say 4 level 1's 5 level 3's 1 level 8 10 level 6's that would equals 87 that number is then multiplied by the insurance rate of the item..so if the item is worth 600 gold you must pay 52,200 to uncurse the item..the gold is spilt 60% into the bounty system and 40%back into the game...


I'm thinking expansion!!
Ultima Online - Rise of the Thieves!! Lol well u get the point

 

[Basara]

Battleground shard? Can you please ellaborate? Was this brought up in the Town Hall? I didn't catch the whole thing, just bits and pieces. I think my one big question when I hear this is this a "portal" shard, or a new shard all together for PvP?

The way they were describing it appeared to be something akin to character copy - but with any awards/points earned crediting to your account (either globally, or to the shard you copied from). The latter would probably be the hard part.

There was also the talk about doing away with the current form of factions for a Law/Chaos type 2-sided system, though it won't be Law/Chaos as it last existed on production shards.

 

[The Predator]

I'm thinking expansion!!
Ultima Online - Rise of the Thieves!! Lol well u get the point

Haha. I must say this is very creative. I'd like to see the mechanics based on "real" skill --- getting to 120 stealing is no easy task. Also, I think the gold should be dropped as coins, not as a check --- because that would not allow the victim the opportunity to slay the thief and reclaim their gold.

Otherwise, I like the idea. This thread is spawning some creativity, that's for sure.

 

[The Predator]

The way they were describing it appeared to be something akin to character copy - but with any awards/points earned crediting to your account (either globally, or to the shard you copied from). The latter would probably be the hard part.

There was also the talk about doing away with the current form of factions for a Law/Chaos type 2-sided system, though it won't be Law/Chaos as it last existed on production shards.

If there is some benefit to it that can be transmitted to my home shard....could be useful. But then again, I'm not sure how I feel about splitting up my time between two different shards. Just depends on how it is implemented. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Ideas for revamp

- Must have 300 hours as an apprentice thief and complete quests for the thief guild master to gain entry..(all current thieves are grandfathered in)

- Once allowed in and embraced by your fellow thieves you become grey to the world..whether in fel or tram..and freely attackable (stealing from players only allowed in fel)

- You become green to other thieves in the guild regardless of faction alliance and are not open to steal from or kill..without hurting you thief notoriety..

- You may steal any item that is not equipped for its gold value times 3 which is then withdrawn from the victim bandbox and delivered to you in check form..

- Cooldown for items being stolen is once every real 24 hours

- An item may be stolen up to 20 times-insured 40 times-blessed(which is shown when checking stats on the item)and at that point becomes cursed for 3 days at that point the item becomes stealable unless brought to a thief guild master where u can pay to have it reset for a nominal fee based on the thieves that stole it from your notoriety's in the thief guild



I'm thinking expansion!!
Ultima Online - Rise of the Thieves!! Lol well u get the point

I like the hours/quest idea.

...so an example is there are 7 tiers of notoriety for thieves
Novice - 1
Apprentice - 2
Adept - 3
Master - 5
Grandmaster - 6
Elder - 8
Legendary - 10

Each tier has a point value attached to it which I put next to the rank..which at that point all totals are added up so say 4 level 1's 5 level 3's 1 level 8 10 level 6's that would equals 87 that number is then multiplied by the insurance rate of the item..so if the item is worth 600 gold you must pay 52,200 to uncurse the item..the gold is spilt 60% into the bounty system and 40%back into the game...

Would any other skills add into this IE Stealth or Hiding

 

[Lord Frodo]

The way they were describing it appeared to be something akin to character copy - but with any awards/points earned crediting to your account (either globally, or to the shard you copied from). The latter would probably be the hard part.

Would that also include equipment?

 

[Basara]

Probably.... the vibe I was getting from them was that it was to be a place for guilds to test their ability against each other without all the expense and drama that taking entire guilds cross-sharding with transfer tokens usually entails.

Of course, I could be entirely wrong, but that's how I'd do it if I was Mesanna.

 

[Spiritless]

GM stealing = house robberies.

120 stealing = group of thieves with getaway steeds able to perform heists on town banks, etc.

You heard it here first, people.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Probably.... the vibe I was getting from them was that it was to be a place for guilds to test their ability against each other without all the expense and drama that taking entire guilds cross-sharding with transfer tokens usually entails.

Of course, I could be entirely wrong, but that's how I'd do it if I was Mesanna.

The only draw back I could see with this is if you could Xfer back to your shard with items, it could be used to swap items from one shard to another. If this was like TC copy to that shard then there is no problem,

 

[Basara]

yep, that's what was seemed to be said - TC copy type, as opposed to a transfer

 

[The Predator]

GM stealing = house robberies.

120 stealing = group of thieves with getaway steeds able to perform heists on town banks, etc.

You heard it here first, people.

That would be unreal.

I do miss the days when you could "rob" a house by stealing the owner's house key...just by waiting outside their house....