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Pet slot balance, hues, new tameable ideas, champ spawn balance

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I like the thought - we'd also need a way to cap the skill gain for the pets though, since they still gain regardless until they hit their cap, and it would be a pain in the neck if you had to scrap and retrain from new every '20%' pet in your combination.

They would almost need the same system as player characters, so you could lock or decrease as well as increase skills.... which would also be a useful thing combined with the suggestions about 'power scrolls for pets', but a horrendous programming task - which doesn't mean it should not be attempted ;)
I think depowering pets would be the hardest part. Like if you wanted to try something out and needed to drop a 40% pet to a 35% pet etc. I guess it all really would depend on the method of pet leveling. If it were just like every x "growth points" you can add or upgrade an "ability" and it was the abilities that counted toward the pet's power, then you could just make it so people could erase abilities.
Or if you didn't want to be so punishing let people make pet abilities dormant, so any already earned abilities could be turn back on without lots of training, maybe it would require an item or something.

I bet a good system that wasn't TOO complicated could be devised.
 
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lancelot99

Guest
''As a tamer I disagree. There's a balance there. Sampires require more skills on the character, more skills on the part of the player and are far more expensive and much more dangerous.''

And as a tamer also, i disagree with this... as my disco tamer uses all my skillpoints, much the same as my sampire, and as you have to be close to heal your pet with vet you put yourself at high risk from target switches/area effect spells without the sampire defensive abilities.
 
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Hunters' Moon

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Adding a slayer property to a pet? Seriously? Do we need to see a GD with 300% damage increase??
 

Petra Fyde

Peerless Chatterbox
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
My thoughts:
partial hues, not dunked in a dye tub, and what could be called 'unnatural' colours only on 'mythical' type creatures. Horses etc should be realistic, natural colours - including black, and maybe a rare piebald?
re-visit Reptalons and Skree
Quests, or other means, to bring existing pets into line with any changes made to newly spawning ones.
While I'm intrigued by the possibly some form of pet-wearable (collar?) which acts like the discord option on the bard masteries, allowing the pet owner to switch damage type. I'm not sure that would be a good thing, would it lead to everyone using one pet and all others becoming redundant? Matching pet to foe would maybe be better? Currently while a GD is used often, sometimes a runebeetle/mare or rune/bake or even dread/mare combo does the job more efficiently.
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
''As a tamer I disagree. There's a balance there. Sampires require more skills on the character, more skills on the part of the player and are far more expensive and much more dangerous.''

And as a tamer also, i disagree with this... as my disco tamer uses all my skillpoints, much the same as my sampire, and as you have to be close to heal your pet with vet you put yourself at high risk from target switches/area effect spells without the sampire defensive abilities.
A sampire ALWAYS has to get hit... all the time and has to keep an eye on health mana and stamina. Plus his suit has to cost a billion gold. My disco Tamer has 5 skills and 2 free for whatever unlike my sampire which has no wiggle room at all.

My tamer never dies. Ever. With luck armor with mediocre stats. My sampire dies all the time in a great/expensive suit.
 
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BeaIank

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
I'd also love to see the taming difficulty and control chance for some of the now underpowered pets lowered.
I can't see why one would need over 93 taming to tame and control an unicorn, a nightmare or a fire steed.
Lower those to 60 tame & lore, since they're quite weak, and allow people to play their holy knights mounting a fair unicorn, or their dreaded dark warrior mounting a nightmare for an investment of 120 points from their template.

I know I'd stone the 120 anatomy on my archer in a heart beat to replace with 60 taming and lore if that meant that I could control such beasts. Heck, allow only one of them to be controlled with that skill level if needed.

Lowering the taming difficulty of some of the weaker beasts such as the drake would also allow tamers to hunt some areas and have fun while training.
The need to have 90+ taming to have a pet that can actually stand a small fight isn't fun.
 
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lancelot99

Guest
''A sampire ALWAYS has to get hit... all the time and has to keep an eye on health mana and stamina. Plus his suit has to cost a billion gold. My disco Tamer has 5 skills and 2 free for whatever unlike my sampire which has no wiggle room at all.
My tamer never dies. Ever. With luck armor with mediocre stats. My sampire dies all the time in a great/expensive suit.''

Never died? Tried Stygian drag with tamer? tried Slasher with tamer? Tried medusa with tamer? I can do them all on my sampire alone but would not touch them on my tamer. - Then there is the Time it takes to raise taming (not counting Mythic chat tokens/rings/bracelets) compared to the Sampire skills (took me 2 days to 120 all my main sampire skills and some can 120 then in a day).

Not sure what the solution is then, they increase Pet power various people (as above) will scream about pets being too powerful with no risk etc ... where as at moment people are no longer using/training taming as it's becoming useless in pvm compared to Sampires/Throwers due to pitiful damage they do (At least on my shard)
Must admit, i rarely if ever use my tamer/disco and his 4.4 GD now as my sampire far far outdamages it and can solo some/all of the bosses n the game... while tamers struggle to kill peerlesses (ok, Meli is easy).
 

Logrus

UO Legend
VIP
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I'd like to add a few more pets which require different levels of taming skill. Then make it a TRUE skill requirement. Pet efficiency and ability could scale with modified skill, but the minimum requirement for using the pet would still be true skill.
That would allow the true skill to have value, while not eliminating the viability of + skill items completely.
 

Wenchkin

Babbling Loonie
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Pet boosting must take into account existing pets and tamers. Some are going to want a greater WW, my first thought is what about the WWs I have? I don't want them neglected, but I don't want them to turn into a white GD that I'll hate and never use either. I just want to see modest improvements to pets that aren't used that much. I just want them to fit into our modern game a bit better, not mow bosses down like mongbats. I hope the devs manage to find a level that's more balanced.

If I hear "I want what sampires have" one more time I might just scream lmao. Make a sampire if you want a sampire! Sampires are overpowered and for some reason have been protected from the nerf stick for far too long. But it makes more sense to bring one class down a peg than raise all the others, given that taming is not the only class that's behind sampires. It's a shame that some tamers now want to equal or better sampires. Can't we be better than that, just once? Do we really want to go back to all kill, no skill? Is it so bad that we have a challenge to kill stuff and someone is doing more damage than us? Pet changes must be done very carefully and I hope EA resist the temptation to go wild and make really powerful pets. Taming has already become much easier over the years, at the rate it's going my RL pets will be able to play their own tamer :D

Pet slots need to be done carefully too, even just 1 more slot is going to be a huge power increase. But they could double the points each pet takes and allow "in between" levels. So 1-5 slots becomes 2-10. Then some pets can be shifted slightly without changing overall power of some pets. That would open up different pet combinations without screwing the balance up.

The only kind of pet slots I'm particularly interested in are the stable ones, still strikes me as funny that every other class can have more weapon choices in their backpack at any time than I can hold in several tamers worth of stables lol.

I quite like the idea of growing a pet up to be stronger, but I would want to see this done in a way that we didn't just park pets to train on a shadow ele to level them up. Tamers are far too good at pet parking and working around the mechanics to get things trained quickly. If pet training had to be done actively by tamers and pets could only raise in power at a certain speed, that would be better. I'd like to see that actually replace the system we have for pet training now, because really it is just park at spawn x, then spawn y if you don't want to bother with more involved methods. A lot of tamers get the perks without really being involved training either their character or pets. I'd like to see better rewards for those players who take chances keeping pets alive in a spawn during training. Or who train taming on aggressive creatures, and train rather than add skill items. We have become very instant gratification in UO and I don't want to make everything take ages and be terribly boring. I just want players who take time to learn taming, to train through normal game play to have fun and better rewards. I want taming to be more about fun than pet park + skill boost items. I want to see tamers working their skills and their pets, not just meet them at high end spawns with a GD :)

What I'd love to see are quests that non tamers can do too, where you are told to go acquire specific pets and use them to kill a number of a particular monster. You can use bonded pets, but you'd get more points if you use fresh tames. Also more reward for not having any pets die during the hunt. Pets like boura could be used for players who don't have taming, along with mechanical pets like a golem. Vollum too - almost forgot about those lol. Miners could get quests for ore that involved their pack critters beating up a specific foe hehe. But you could get some fun quests if you based them round a fun challenge like that. And it would test a player if they had to keep several fresh pets alive and kill something. You'd probably have to allow for others joining in to heal the pets, perhaps deduct points if others heal or you could do a party version where tamers group together and fight something with teeny creatures. Just something fun, no uber powerful rewards but a cool test of how well you controlled and cared for animals/mechanical pets.

Pet colours...I'd almost favour things like marking like say dragons with different coloured bellies or *nice* tone changes. RL reptiles have some really cool looking markings that IMO are much better than a solid purple or blue type hue. I'd also like to see cu sidhe look more like the mythical ones, spotting on their coat and more wild dog like. Though they do look very like my happy retriever which is cool, I just fancy a more feral looking doggy!

Champ spawns - need to die with fire, IMHO. Spawning rounds of tougher monsters in excessive numbers for a bit of paper got boring for me after maybe 5 spawns, PvP around spawns is even less interesting. Restrict the Fel ones to one smaller area and re-do them from scratch. Make something engaging and intelligent, not simply bash monsters then beat the snot out of each other. PvM is more interesting to me now lol.

Wenchy
 

Wenchkin

Babbling Loonie
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I'd like to add a few more pets which require different levels of taming skill. Then make it a TRUE skill requirement. Pet efficiency and ability could scale with modified skill, but the minimum requirement for using the pet would still be true skill.
That would allow the true skill to have value, while not eliminating the viability of + skill items completely.
Big thumbs up for something like this too. Taming training is slow and boring for most tamers, it's good to have something positive at the end to justify chasing bulls for months and not just wearing a bracelet instead :)

Wenchy
 

RuSini Neb

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
I would like to see more then just a color change made to pets. I know they said they are not going to be doing boosters for quite some time, but as is My tamer is hardly ever used. Why use a tamer over a sampire in 90% of all pvm situations. I hope they add some love to tamers, and not just more powerfull pets I would love for some innovative pet breading system etc.. etc.., just something to take the dull out of the template.

I do want tamers to mow bosses down like mongbats, and all other templates for that matter ( some of us on smaller shards don't have many people to chose from to do peerless and the whatnot with so soloing is one of our only options ;x <-- was an exaggeration before people start posting about 'how stupid of an idea that would be'
 
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Logrus

UO Legend
VIP
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
One other idea would be to have pet efficiency scale with distance from tamer. So the closer a tamer is to their pet, the more damage the pet does, the more often they hit, the more they use specials etc. The further away the less damage.
Some added benefits and risk for tamers, so that its less fire and forget. (Maybe combine Vet skill and healing skill so that tamers are already building some survivability, would have to do some more thinking on this one)
 
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lancelot99

Guest
''If I hear "I want what sampires have" one more time I might just scream lmao. Make a sampire if you want a sampire! Sampires are overpowered and for some reason have been protected from the nerf stick for far too long.''

- All i want is balance, the two main templates i see (90+%) are sampires and Mage/Mystics at all events because they are the only logical choice to play. I have a sampire (Before the smart *go make a sampire comments*) but would like to play my Tamer but with new dungeons and spawns it makes no sense, whats the point apart from for role-play? (i don't consider spending 3-4x the time to kill spawn slower tham my sampire or mystic/mage as *FUN* or *Challenging*.. not challenging just boring.
A solution could be to make different classed good at different things or maybe a pentalty for having necro and chiv on the same template making players specialise.
 

Gorbs

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Now seems about the right time to throw out my usual complaint - make the size of pets scale like in other extremely popular games. For example, you may tame a dragon that is roughly 4x the area on screen of your horse while wild, but once controlled by a player it should display (at least to other players) using much less screen real estate. Alternately, give players a toggle in the UI that allows us to display other people's dragons as chickens, mongbats, or some other smaller animal. It doesn't matter to me what color your dragon is.
 

DankNuggets

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
I personally would like to see more of the Dread Warhorse type spawn, where it's a limited time only! I enjoy the rare aspect of UO, I do not think everyone should have everything. I spent a long time getting my 2 dreads when the event was out. I have trained them and spent a lot of time on them and they are rare and cool to have! That's how it should be! I'm sorry that people do not have them, but I do not have a lot of things I wish I had! I would like to see this with lots of pets. Put a green dragon in (seems to be a popular request) but only spawn it for a few months. Then put out something new that only spawns for a few months. Bring them back from time to time ( contradicts my dread statement but it would be fair to have them spawn for a limited time once a year or something.) Variety is what UO is lacking currently. It's always about a "power-temp". Marketing idea for sure, makes you buy the new stuff if you want to be "good".

It would be very nice to see a bunch of new tameables, color them, give them special abilities or what ever it is, but keep them rare and hard to get. Just don't make a new rare pet the standard power pet that everyone "has" to have in order to play. This would also make the failed pet trading stuff take off, in my opinion at least. Who wants to shop for the same dragon over and over, assuming anyone is selling a pet to being with?

*EDIT* Also pack instinct should be a factor again, and not just with ostards as that appears to be the only pack instinct pet worth doing
 
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Samaira

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
One other idea would be to have pet efficiency scale with distance from tamer. So the closer a tamer is to their pet, the more damage the pet does, the more often they hit, the more they use specials etc. The further away the less damage.
I love this. I really do. I was always the silly girl who stood beside the DF or Meli to vet everyone's pets... heck, running off screen to break target was the reason I GM'd hiding years ago. However, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, the intensity of high-end monsters' AoE effects could really do with being turned down. I love the challenge of vetting through a tricky situation, what I don't love is getting one-hit killed in the process.

I agree with you, Wenchy, in hoping that whatever is done, is done softly. The last thing I want is for taming to end up at the wrong end of nerf stick in six months.
 

Hunters' Moon

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
One other idea would be to have pet efficiency scale with distance from tamer. So the closer a tamer is to their pet, the more damage the pet does, the more often they hit, the more they use specials etc. The further away the less damage.
Some added benefits and risk for tamers, so that its less fire and forget. (Maybe combine Vet skill and healing skill so that tamers are already building some survivability, would have to do some more thinking on this one)
Add stat requirements to the taming template as well. Moderate to high dex to heal fast with vet.Tamers shouldn't get a pass on not needing dex to heal.
 
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Wenchkin

Babbling Loonie
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
''If I hear "I want what sampires have" one more time I might just scream lmao. Make a sampire if you want a sampire! Sampires are overpowered and for some reason have been protected from the nerf stick for far too long.''

- All i want is balance, the two main templates i see (90+%) are sampires and Mage/Mystics at all events because they are the only logical choice to play. I have a sampire (Before the smart *go make a sampire comments*) but would like to play my Tamer but with new dungeons and spawns it makes no sense, whats the point apart from for role-play? (i don't consider spending 3-4x the time to kill spawn slower tham my sampire or mystic/mage as *FUN* or *Challenging*.. not challenging just boring.
A solution could be to make different classed good at different things or maybe a pentalty for having necro and chiv on the same template making players specialise.
All I want is balance too, but I know that it's much more work raising all other classes to equal sampires and boosting up monsters to that new level. Better to nerf sampires themselves and if necessary, tone down content in new areas that's been designed around them.

The sampire is not a standard we must all equal, it's a lesson to EA in how you should work quickly so a single template doesn't mess the whole game up and create some "standard" that players all want to have.

And really, tamers are not just for RP nowadays... pre GD we were hunting champs and bosses, we can still do that now. Your pets are no less capable today than they were before the abyss appeared. New content is tougher because the hybrids were obviously considered when they decided how tough spawn should be. But you can simply team up with a guild and do those spawns together. I don't like that sampires are overpowered and seemingly allowed to do their thing while other classes are significantly weaker, but it's not tamers I feel most sorry for. And I would rather see sampires balanced than taming turned into some horribly overpowered class simply to equal the sampire.

Wenchy
 
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lancelot99

Guest
'' Add stat requirements to the taming template as well. Moderate to high dex to heal fast with vet.Tamers shouldn't get a pass on not needing dex to heal''

You could also make a point for mages needing mid-high dex to cast spells (moving hands) - lower dex = slower cast times (even with fc/fcr jewels)
My necro mage has 10 dex.... penalise one for low dex then penalise others :)
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
I thought it might be nice to be able to get powerscrolls on pets. Maybe even a stat scroll....
 

ShadowTrauma

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Just a quick suggestion in general here. There have been many interesting ideas posted and by no means should that stop, but I would think that if possible when posting to also consider adding more feedback on other peoples suggestions. It would make sense that starting to work to some sort of consensus might create a more fruitful discussion. I think its safe to say that this is a very passionate subject for many and it has been an interesting read so far.
 

yadiman

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Instead of trying to balance it to a sampire (which is unnecessary), why not balance it to a Rising Colossus? A RC is stronger than a Greater Dragon right now IMO. Yes you have to recast RC over and over, but you have to constantly heal a pet. In addition, for the same 240 points in myst/focus, you get many more spells. While a tamer generally needs points in Vet as well.

I understand people don't want the tamer to be the next overpowered spec (and I don't either), but I want to be able to efficiently use a variety of pets (both old and possibly new). Armor has vastly improved in recent years, yet pets have remained the same. Pet armor/claws/collars makes sense. And armor doesn't have to "dye" your pet similar to barding deeds. Adding survivability would also allow people to bring their smaller pets so that they don't use up too much screen "real estate".
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
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Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
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Instead of trying to balance it to a sampire (which is unnecessary), why not balance it to a Rising Colossus? A RC is stronger than a Greater Dragon right now IMO. Yes you have to recast RC over and over, but you have to constantly heal a pet. In addition, for the same 240 points in myst/focus, you get many more spells. While a tamer generally needs points in Vet as well.

I understand people don't want the tamer to be the next overpowered spec (and I don't either), but I want to be able to efficiently use a variety of pets (both old and possibly new). Armor has vastly improved in recent years, yet pets have remained the same. Pet armor/claws/collars makes sense. And armor doesn't have to "dye" your pet similar to barding deeds. Adding survivability would also allow people to bring their smaller pets so that they don't use up too much screen "real estate".
Another thing to note is Armor has improved greatly over the years and since then the DEV's have felt it necessary to increase the power of monsters but other than the Greater Dragon Pets seriously haven't improved leaving the Tamer kinda out of the loop.
 

G.v.P

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Pet boosting must take into account existing pets and tamers. Some are going to want a greater WW, my first thought is what about the WWs I have? I don't want them neglected, but I don't want them to turn into a white GD that I'll hate and never use either. I just want to see modest improvements to pets that aren't used that much. I just want them to fit into our modern game a bit better, not mow bosses down like mongbats. I hope the devs manage to find a level that's more balanced.
That's why the existing pets, in my opinion, need to be grandfathered, and we should have to go on a quest in order to obtain a re-roll item (in the case of converting a WW to a Greater WW, or the like) or we can just keep what we have.

My original GWW sketch wouldn't make anything close to a GD, though, and as such, many complained about the slot requirements because they want to keep using the old WW/Nightmare combo.

White Wyrm (New 4-slot WW option)

Strengths: 456 max HP, up to 90 cold resist. Very high STR; among top in its class when you consider a single hit and very high DPS considering spell casting ability.
Weaknesses: No firebreath. Much stronger melee than a regular Dragon but incapable of being a tank in most situations due to low Fire resist (mage based spells like Fireball, Explosion, and Flame Strike are too common). Low base damage minimum means drop in DPS.
Fix: Create quest to boost Wyrms into a "Greater Wyrm." New maxes: 575 HP / 450 INT / 75 PHYS / 35 FIRE / 55 POIS / 55 ENER (total max of 310 resists) as a 4-slot. Old Wyrms would have to run through the quest, which, upon completion, would do a RNG check and reroll all stats. There could be a confirmation window if the results are crappy so a tamer can decline the changes, or perhaps a more RP friendly report card to indicate the changes if the owner confirms. New Wyrms would only spawn with original tables and the quest would be the only way to achieve such a Wyrm. As a result, the quest would be somewhat more difficult to achieve than the Reptalon quest.
Additional Changes: Give the "Greater Wyrm" a new Cold-based special. Either a Cone of Cold/Medusa stone (minus Evils) like Sleep/Freeze spell, Hail Storm, or something else of the like.
To me, the key is making the WW fun through the use of a new spell. An area cone of cold, for example, which could temporarily have a stone-like effect, would make the four slot viable. Perhaps the affect could scale based on magic resist or have an artificial cap for PvP.
 

Hunters' Moon

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
'' Add stat requirements to the taming template as well. Moderate to high dex to heal fast with vet.Tamers shouldn't get a pass on not needing dex to heal''

You could also make a point for mages needing mid-high dex to cast spells (moving hands) - lower dex = slower cast times (even with fc/fcr jewels)
My necro mage has 10 dex.... penalise one for low dex then penalise others :)
Fair enough. Require heavy mana cost for tamers to "all kill". How does a humanoid character with a max 125 int(before jewels) command a creature such as a greater dragon that can have as much as 500+ int anyway? They should have it that dragons can turn it around on the tamer and the tamer does the bidding of the dragon.
 

G.v.P

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Instead of trying to balance it to a sampire (which is unnecessary), why not balance it to a Rising Colossus? A RC is stronger than a Greater Dragon right now IMO. Yes you have to recast RC over and over, but you have to constantly heal a pet. In addition, for the same 240 points in myst/focus, you get many more spells. While a tamer generally needs points in Vet as well.
There are plenty of viable PvM templates:
-Mystic stone form dexxer
-Elven sampire
-Wammy
-Greater Dragon tamer
-RC mystic mage
-ABC archer
-ABC thrower

And at the end of the day a spellweaver can come around and just WOD at the very end. PvM isn't hard, and there isn't one way to PvM.

This thread--while it's about a great many things--is chiefly about pet balance as far as pet to pet, rather than template to template. For example, ki-rins and unicorns are no where near as useful two-slots as a nightmare, and a firesteed is even worse.

I was thinking the other day, firesteeds ought to have 50% fire eater or something. Maybe 100%, but they are a two-slot. Just something to account for their high taming requirement. They ought to be the best two-slot in some regard, a tamer's pet.
 

ShadowTrauma

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
This thread--while it's about a great many things--is chiefly about pet balance as far as pet to pet, rather than template to template. For example, ki-rins and unicorns are no where near as useful two-slots as a nightmare, and a firesteed is even worse.

I was thinking the other day, firesteeds ought to have 50% fire eater or something. Maybe 100%, but they are a two-slot. Just something to account for their high taming requirement. They ought to be the best two-slot in some regard, a tamer's pet.
This is a good point because as I was reading many of the interesting ideas people have, I realized that the discussion had swayed a bit from what you are referring to. From my point of view it is also a more difficult experience to effectively control multiple low-slot pets. I would like to see some acknowledgement to the fact and possibly some incentive. I really was excited about the Pack Instinct mechanic until I realized how chaotic/unreliable multiple pets can be, not even counting the balance issues of the pets involved.
 

yadiman

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
There are plenty of viable PvM templates:
-Mystic stone form dexxer
-Elven sampire
-Wammy
-Greater Dragon tamer
-RC mystic mage
-ABC archer
-ABC thrower

And at the end of the day a spellweaver can come around and just WOD at the very end. PvM isn't hard, and there isn't one way to PvM.

This thread--while it's about a great many things--is chiefly about pet balance as far as pet to pet, rather than template to template. For example, ki-rins and unicorns are no where near as useful two-slots as a nightmare, and a firesteed is even worse.

I was thinking the other day, firesteeds ought to have 50% fire eater or something. Maybe 100%, but they are a two-slot. Just something to account for their high taming requirement. They ought to be the best two-slot in some regard, a tamer's pet.
Ok, well why wouldn't you want balance among other templates? I'm not asking to be at the top of the food chain like sampires and throwers, I would just like to be similar to RC mystic mages and the like.

BTW, bringing other 2 slot pets up to the level of nightmare would still result in -no one- using 2 slot pets... (other than pvp perhaps where i think they should be nerfed anyway)
 

Wenchkin

Babbling Loonie
Alumni
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Stratics Legend
That's why the existing pets, in my opinion, need to be grandfathered, and we should have to go on a quest in order to obtain a re-roll item (in the case of converting a WW to a Greater WW, or the like) or we can just keep what we have.
I like the idea of choice, but I would hope the improvement was such that we'd all apply it unless we wanted a rare WW that wasn't boosted. Or perhaps they could give us some way to show the age of our WWs instead. I always wanted a "tamed on [date] by [tamer]" line in the lore panels, but old WWs could get different coloured ice breath or something. And some trick command like the dreads have to show it off lol.

My original GWW sketch wouldn't make anything close to a GD, though, and as such, many complained about the slot requirements because they want to keep using the old WW/Nightmare combo.
Yup, that's how it should be IMHO. I'd hate to keep pets for more than 10 yrs then find I couldn't hunt them with their old pals ;) I think the GWW name is slightly misleading for some, myself included, because it's never obvious who is asking for a white GD and who just wants an improved WW :D

To me, the key is making the WW fun through the use of a new spell. An area cone of cold, for example, which could temporarily have a stone-like effect, would make the four slot viable. Perhaps the affect could scale based on magic resist or have an artificial cap for PvP.
I think new spells are a good idea, really just want to see a modern spin on the WW that gives devs a chance to consider adding new spells to their weaponry. I'd love if you could get a special spell on them that occasionally turned monsters into a frozen mass of icicles.

Wenchy
 

G.v.P

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Ok, well why wouldn't you want balance among other templates? I'm not asking to be at the top of the food chain like sampires and throwers, I would just like to be similar to RC mystic mages and the like.

BTW, bringing other 2 slot pets up to the level of nightmare would still result in -no one- using 2 slot pets... (other than pvp perhaps where i think they should be nerfed anyway)
If sampires, throwers (any ABC) and RC mystic mages are better than tamers--if and when--it's because of honor and armor ignore (through special moves or by chance through bushido).

A tamer can use spellweaving for WOD, discord for better overall damage, archery for hybrid slayer damage, etc., etc. Is a tamer who does nothing but heal going to compete? Yes. But if you want to maximize damage then a tamer is fairly flexible.

Vet isn't that useful because mana regen is too easy to get on a suit and you end up never running out of gheals. In that case, mana regen needs to be looked at in general, or there needs to be a distinct advantage or perk to using veterinary.

Rune Beetle/Bake Kitsune is viable as a 3-2, just takes a long time to farm the right Kitsune tank. Kitsune's are the best two-slots in the game because of their fast cast (PvP) and ability to tank, just that you can't ride them ;P. Some still use a WW/Nightmare, or Rune Beetle/Nightmare. No one is going to Unicorn/WW or Ki-rin/Rune Beetle, though, and a fully trained firesteed can die to a mummy or two.
 

yadiman

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Well I have a 4.4 bake, but i wouldn't dream of taking him exploring without area peace... Even tanking in very controlled situations is not really worth the effort vs. boss type mobs. I don't think tamers should be relegated to trash clean-up. Maybe some people use those 2/3 slot pets but the fact is that you hardly ever see a tamer without a greater dragon.
 
L

lancelot99

Guest
''Fair enough. Require heavy mana cost for tamers to "all kill". How does a humanoid character with a max 125 int(before jewels) command a creature such as a greater dragon that can have as much as 500+ int anyway? They should have it that dragons can turn it around on the tamer and the tamer does the bidding of the dragon.''

I'm fine with them reducing the INT on large tames as long as they have amazing str and dex to tear a mob apart :) and needing tame to subjigate them (Makes sense) Like a wild dumb Monster that can tear a GD apart but needs 120 real Tame to tame and control it :) I like :banana:
 

yadiman

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How about giving reptalons 150 wrestling skill. They are cool creatures which seem very quick. This would make them strong vs. certain melee oriented bosses. And like you suggested for the fire absorb with the fire steed, give all pets unique functions such as this. But all of their HP are going to have to come up to be viable.
 

Petra Fyde

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I think new spells are a good idea, really just want to see a modern spin on the WW that gives devs a chance to consider adding new spells to their weaponry. I'd love if you could get a special spell on them that occasionally turned monsters into a frozen mass of icicles.
Wenchy
The main reason I stopped using my WW wasn't because of any deficiency in its abilities, though that might be a factor with more recent additions, it was because I could no longer stay with it to vet it. The WW was always my partner of choice for hunting undead. The area affect spells such as 'wither' killed that for me. If my WW had the ability to shield me from those spells, provided I were standing within 1 tile of it, so that I could vet it, I would be really happy. I accept that might have to be a 'pvm only' change :(.
I used to spend a pleasant hour or so regularly in Ankh killing undead. I rarely go near it now.
 

yadiman

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Although I love Dr. Evil, you obviously hate tamers for whatever reason (prob pvp, in which case i don't care if they nerf all pet's damage anyway). The devs already stated that pets need rebalanced.
 

DankNuggets

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Vet isn't that useful because mana regen is too easy to get on a suit and you end up never running out of gheals. In that case, mana regen needs to be looked at in general, or there needs to be a distinct advantage or perk to using veterinary.

Thank you for saying this, I haven't used Vet in years, with Spellweaving and Magery you can get away with out any Vet and Vet has no additional perks, where SW has a bunch of awesome spells. Makes me think that Vet should be more useful. I love Spellweaving and I don't want to see Arcane Empowerment changed, but when you can g heal for around 100 why bother with vet?
 

Lady Michelle

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There's RL dragons?

Here's your chance at a new vet reward...Pet dye tub. X amount of years to get with no age restriction to use.

I hate the idea of barding deeds, especially when cu's spawn in colors.

What i would like to see in a pet revamp is the ability to train pets in what skills you want them to have. Poisoning, mage, necro, mystic, what specials to use ect. Maybe even go as far as allowing them X amount of skill points depending on how many slots they take. Would definately like to see some non cookie cutter casting pets.
Yes there is real dragons one has a job on that show Merlin. He even talks :D
 

Logrus

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Another idea to throw out there:
Change Vet to Pulse Heal over the duration and give it a set duration (Say 6 seconds 6 pulses). So you can heal for more over the long duration, but you heal for less over the short duration.
Maybe also a chance for the pet to get a temporary hp / mana/ stamina regen buff after successful full vet duration.
 

Lady Michelle

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Another idea to throw out there:
Change Vet to Pulse Heal over the duration and give it a set duration (Say 6 seconds 6 pulses). So you can heal for more over the long duration, but you heal for less over the short duration.
Maybe also a chance for the pet to get a temporary hp / mana/ stamina regen buff after successful full vet duration.
120 vet all skill uses the enhanced bandages on pets for the temporary hp / mana/ stamina regen buff after successful full vet duration.
 

CovenantX

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Thank you for saying this, I haven't used Vet in years, with Spellweaving and Magery you can get away with out any Vet and Vet has no additional perks, where SW has a bunch of awesome spells. Makes me think that Vet should be more useful. I love Spellweaving and I don't want to see Arcane Empowerment changed, but when you can g heal for around 100 why bother with vet?
Doesn't Veterinary skill increase the amount of stable-slots you're able to store pets in? might not be worth so much now... but after some changes to pets + new tamable pets may prove this to be a good enough perk.
 

Petra Fyde

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Vet isn't that useful because mana regen is too easy to get on a suit and you end up never running out of gheals. In that case, mana regen needs to be looked at in general, or there needs to be a distinct advantage or perk to using veterinary.
hmm, what template heals like that? My gheals don't heal anything like as much as my bandages. There's no way I could keep a pet alive in a big fight with my magery. I have no eval, being a peace tamer - and my mana gets all used up with barding.
CovenantX - yes vet contributes to stable slots. Also if your magery fails and the worst happens, you can't res the pet without vet.
 
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Hunters' Moon

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hmm, what template heals like that? My gheals don't heal anything like as much as my bandages. There's no way I could keep a pet alive in a big fight with my magery. I have no eval, being a peace tamer - and my mana gets all used up with barding.
CovenantX - yes vet contributes to stable slots. Also if your magery fails and the worst happens, you can't res the pet without vet.
My usual gheal heals about 62-68 hp per cast. This is with 120 eval int. With my fc/fcr at max and with 40% lmc and very high mana regen,I have kept a gdragon alive even with the pets owner getting knocked out vs Simidar. I would rarely drop below 80% in my mana pool(220+ with bless).
 

Aurelius

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Doesn't Veterinary skill increase the amount of stable-slots you're able to store pets in? might not be worth so much now... but after some changes to pets + new tamable pets may prove this to be a good enough perk.
Plus, of course, it's the most simple and straightforward way to get a ghost back to being a pet when you're out hunting, although even combined with the benefits you and others mention it's quite an expensive investment of skill points. Can't say I find it troublesome enough to have a strong wish to change it though.
 

MalagAste

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I still use vet.... need those extra slots. For every 5 points over 100 you get another slot..... I believe so yes it adds slots.
 

Warpig Inc

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Instead of a whole pet color change. Could go with a body paint style like the Savage Paint. Slayers/ Abilities based on color used. The hide art dye would also have a wear out timer and with a large oil towel can be removed. Added in some new gathered ingridents the alky and cook skills get some life. Even something as simple as boss drop dyes that just cover the leather dye tub colors could help tamers sort their pets out a mob without an "All Follow Me"

Some of the less perfered pets for hunting (basic answer anything not a GD) could have a type of pack party bonus. Boura Wranglers being a group of tamers in party their boura would then get buffs.

There is some circle of UO where slayer types oppose other creature types. Already have the GD being reptile. On the other side and all around the circle each creature class needs a GD class tame to be useful vs opposing types. Now you need vet for the stable slots and stop turnishing the tamer template.
 

G.v.P

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hmm, what template heals like that? My gheals don't heal anything like as much as my bandages. There's no way I could keep a pet alive in a big fight with my magery. I have no eval, being a peace tamer - and my mana gets all used up with barding.
gheal is calculated based on magery alone, eval int doesn't have any effect. spellweaving (arcane empowerment) can increase gheals, though, and quite a few tamers use spellweaving (for gift of renewal and gift of life as well).
 

DankNuggets

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Doesn't Veterinary skill increase the amount of stable-slots you're able to store pets in? might not be worth so much now... but after some changes to pets + new tamable pets may prove this to be a good enough perk.
AH I had forgotten that! That is a good point I had not considered. Still I would like to see more of a perk for vet, there are many ways around it for less skill points and/or more powerful ways of healing and ressing pets. I personally would start making room on my 2nd tamer for pets that I want to keep but won't use much, such as Rune Beetle, WW, and Hiyru.

To res a pet without vet: Elixir of Rebirth, Gift of Life, Another tamer w/ Vet, and the last resort; stable master. I personally see SW as being 100x more powerful for a tamer to use. Every now and again it bites you but it's not too bad.

This is assuming your pet even dies.. which with spellweaving and magery is very hard to do. I can solo a lady mel with a necro tamer no vet, that's just wrong to me.

Arcane Empowerment is really what allows this, I love this spell to death and I think it's balanced pretty well, huge mana cost and without a arcane focus it doesn't last very long. But it adds a tremendous amount of healing power, mix in gift of renewel and all you have to do is wait for the Dragon to almost die, then GoR it, Arcane Empower and chunk its life back up. Let it get low again and rinse/repeat. With this technique i've been able to get around needing vet for several years.

In a large party of tamers you will need someone with vet, but chances are at least one tamer in a group of 5 has it.
 
S

Smokes To Much

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My necro mage has 10 dex.... penalise one for low dex then penalise others :)
Just add the push through/stamina loss rules that Fel has and you'd find people would start adding at least some points into Dex.
 
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