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In the 2D Classic Client, can we get the ability to zoom out like in the EC client?
No you can't..... the client is old buggy and needs to be retired.... if you don't like it's outdated features then make the switch.... if you can't make the switch because you won't then live with the consequences..... the 2d client is holding UO back.
I have to agree here. I pitched Jeff on this via Twitter. He said more people still use the CC so nothing in the pipes to ditch the CC. Surely working on two clients must be a huge drain on resources.
If they put in a classic font end/feel to the EC then I'm sure everyone would switch. It cant be that hard to use the graphics from the CC in the EC and to have a UI that resembles the CC.. do that and I think they can retire the CC.
Was talking to a guy the other day who I traded with, he could only see 'one' item in the trade box, where as I saw 5, given that I was in the EC and he was in 2d. Upon a bit more chat he said he preferred the 2d client, to which I asked had he ever tried the EC. The answer was 'no'. I then asked how can you prefer one thing over another if you have never actually tried the other? The answer was 'point taken' but I will still only play 2d.
This is the same sort of thing you come across time after time. Often people log in for 30 mins can't 'work' it out, log out and proceed to bag the client. When I logged into the default EC after a few years away, it was also alien given I had been playing WOW and other games in the break. The settings were all default, which totally suck, the UI is clunky and large, stuff all over the place, each time you talk boxes pop open due to the different chat system and default hotkeys etc. It is the same as any 'new' thing you log into, you have to fully customize and get in tune with the new game/client/system before it is playable, and give yourself at least a week to get the feel of things again. With in an hour I had my desktop straightened to something useable, had the scaling right to suit me, started setting up my macros and other always used hotbars/items, then downloaded pinko's which was 'new' to me and started working my way through that to understand what functions that UI had to enhance the default etc.
I even had to refer to the EC User guide that I actually 'wrote' a few years back while I was in the SA/EC beta, , currently hosted on Stratics, to refresh myself.
My point, I guess, is if you want the 'functions' of the EC, then play the EC. And if you do want to seriously get into the EC, pretty much every EC player will assist you with setting up your client, myself included.
The best other thing about the EC = NO uoam, No uoassist, NO uomapper. It is stand alone and that in my book makes it superior.
This is the same sort of thing you come across time after time. Often people log in for 30 mins can't 'work' it out, log out and proceed to bag the client. When I logged into the default EC after a few years away, it was also alien given I had been playing WOW and other games in the break. The settings were all default, which totally suck, the UI is clunky and large, stuff all over the place, each time you talk boxes pop open due to the different chat system and default hotkeys etc. It is the same as any 'new' thing you log into, you have to fully customize and get in tune with the new game/client/system before it is playable, and give yourself at least a week to get the feel of things again. With in an hour I had my desktop straightened to something useable, had the scaling right to suit me, started setting up my macros and other always used hotbars/items, then downloaded pinko's which was 'new' to me and started working my way through that to understand what functions that UI had to enhance the default etc.
I even had to refer to the EC User guide that I actually 'wrote' a few years back while I was in the SA/EC beta, , currently hosted on Stratics, to refresh myself.
My point, I guess, is if you want the 'functions' of the EC, then play the EC. And if you do want to seriously get into the EC, pretty much every EC player will assist you with setting up your client, myself included.
The best other thing about the EC = NO uoam, No uoassist, NO uomapper. It is stand alone and that in my book makes it superior.
Don't know about the ui in EC, never really got in to it. But some features sound good from what other people describe.
But I will never use a client that doesn't use the CC graphics. I think they are some of the best in history (except for some of the "newer" ones.) It isn't UO with anything else and I rather quit playing than being forced to use something else.
But I will never use a client that doesn't use the CC graphics. I think they are some of the best in history (except for some of the "newer" ones.) It isn't UO with anything else and I rather quit playing than being forced to use something else.
I don't think this was meant to spur another CC vs EC debate and I'm pretty sure the mods here don't want to see another one. I think the OP has a legitimate question that shouldn't be answered without demonstrating why it wouldn't be practical to do this.
It just seems contradictory to me to state that supporting the CC is "buggy" and "a huge drain on resources" because:
1. The reason why the CC still exists is because a majority of the playerbase still use it. In other words, it is the primary revenue generator of the two clients.
2. The CC is the least "buggy" of any other UO client ever created.
3. If a client is "a huge drain on resources" and still "buggy", then just what are those resources being spent on?
And what part of that huge player base that uses CC only becuase of all that hacks out there that works with it. About as many that quit having to deal with playing next to the hacks.
To the OPs question. Right after the EC can redress out of container in our house. That is the ONLY thing I miss about CC. The ability for my characters to share those one off items without digging and dragging.
To the OPs question. Right after the EC can redress out of container in our house. That is the ONLY thing I miss about CC. The ability for my characters to share those one off items without digging and dragging.
I said supporting 2 clients is a drain on resources. I didn't specify which.
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Woodsman
Guest
If there aren't enough resources, it's not because either client is a drain on them, and it's not because of anything the UO team is doing or not doing.
It's because EA made the decision to shrink the UO team over the past couple of years and because EA would rather spend millions of dollars on a brand new Ultima. A new Ultima that is going to have a resolution of at least 2040x1536 just for the iPad alone.
I used to bash the CC for having a resolution smaller than my phone, but you know what? If EA can spend millions on a new Ultima game, if they can spend $100 million advertising Battlefield 3 or SWTOR, if they can spend millions on a new ending for Mass Effect 3 because a few hundred thousand people got upset, they can spend a few hundred thousand on boosting the UO team enough to properly support and enhance both clients.
EA treats us, and the UO team, the way they do, because we allow EA to do this. It's not because CC users won't give up the CC or because EC users want a high resolution client for modern computers.
It's because EA made the decision to shrink the UO team over the past couple of years and because EA would rather spend millions of dollars on a brand new Ultima. A new Ultima that is going to have a resolution of at least 2040x1536 just for the iPad alone.
I used to bash the CC for having a resolution smaller than my phone, but you know what? If EA can spend millions on a new Ultima game, if they can spend $100 million advertising Battlefield 3 or SWTOR, if they can spend millions on a new ending for Mass Effect 3 because a few hundred thousand people got upset, they can spend a few hundred thousand on boosting the UO team enough to properly support and enhance both clients.
EA treats us, and the UO team, the way they do, because we allow EA to do this. It's not because CC users won't give up the CC or because EC users want a high resolution client for modern computers.
Actually the EC isn't as "buggy" as you believe. I'll tell you that at the Event where we went to kill Exodus I and a few folk I know ran 2 clients.... I ran 2 of the EC even...... Now I never ONCE crashed. This means that 2 clients using the EC never once crashed nor did my friend also running 2 of the EC ... however everyone else in our vent was running the 2d client and crashed no less than 5 times during the event. So who's client is buggy?
As for your ugly Graphics you can rest assured that a vast majority of them are in the EC. And using the EC UI you could pretty much mod most all the others into it.... except maybe mobiles.... which you'd have to get used to all the dragons being red and Hiryu's looking more like a plucked chicken... with a fat head and no beak. But I digress...
I'm even willing to continue teaching folk thru Ventrillo how to use the EC with Pinco's UI.... I know nothing of making a UI on your own but I know it can be done. If I knew how to convince Pinco not to quit UO I would but I don't know that I can do that. However what I do know is the EC is less buggy than it was when it came out. It has many things that yes could be improved but it still beats the 2d client any day of the week.
As a tamer I absolutely LOVE having all the information on ONE page.... plus with Pinco's knowing exactly what the pets rating is the moment I lore something.
As a T-Hunter the maps match FAR better and I can pinpoint a location in no time.
As a fisherman I love how Pinco's automatically plots my MIB's for me... no more grouping them NE,NW, SE, SW.... I can see exactly where they all are at a glance.
As a PvPer... I can swap out my weapon, talisman and quiver in one stroke on the run while hunting you down. I can switch to an entire different set of armor just as quickly if I wanted to... No waiting to unhand one weapon while I grab another. The auto navigate automatically runs me around obstacles for the most part so while you are hitting every stick and tombstone I'm running screens away... You think I'm cheating or using a speed hack but NO I can assure you I am not.
I could go on and on and on with the advantages that the EC offers... But still you insist on holding back UO in the darkages of Graphics and everything else because you refuse to believe that Graphics ARE what is killing UO. While I'm glad that you like the nostalgia it offers I hate to tell you but the rest of the world has moved on... and they demand better from games they play.. and the worst of it all is the code for the CC is killing UO. Most things can NOT be added to the old code because the engine used to run it ..... your beloved 2d client CAN'T do it.... it's too outdated for "modern" ideas that come from modern games using MODERN engines. Does THAT make it more clear and plain as to why you can't get most those things and WHY if you want to move forward with new "features" you will have to move off the outdated client?
As for your ugly Graphics you can rest assured that a vast majority of them are in the EC. And using the EC UI you could pretty much mod most all the others into it.... except maybe mobiles.... which you'd have to get used to all the dragons being red and Hiryu's looking more like a plucked chicken... with a fat head and no beak. But I digress...
I'm even willing to continue teaching folk thru Ventrillo how to use the EC with Pinco's UI.... I know nothing of making a UI on your own but I know it can be done. If I knew how to convince Pinco not to quit UO I would but I don't know that I can do that. However what I do know is the EC is less buggy than it was when it came out. It has many things that yes could be improved but it still beats the 2d client any day of the week.
As a tamer I absolutely LOVE having all the information on ONE page.... plus with Pinco's knowing exactly what the pets rating is the moment I lore something.
As a T-Hunter the maps match FAR better and I can pinpoint a location in no time.
As a fisherman I love how Pinco's automatically plots my MIB's for me... no more grouping them NE,NW, SE, SW.... I can see exactly where they all are at a glance.
As a PvPer... I can swap out my weapon, talisman and quiver in one stroke on the run while hunting you down. I can switch to an entire different set of armor just as quickly if I wanted to... No waiting to unhand one weapon while I grab another. The auto navigate automatically runs me around obstacles for the most part so while you are hitting every stick and tombstone I'm running screens away... You think I'm cheating or using a speed hack but NO I can assure you I am not.
I could go on and on and on with the advantages that the EC offers... But still you insist on holding back UO in the darkages of Graphics and everything else because you refuse to believe that Graphics ARE what is killing UO. While I'm glad that you like the nostalgia it offers I hate to tell you but the rest of the world has moved on... and they demand better from games they play.. and the worst of it all is the code for the CC is killing UO. Most things can NOT be added to the old code because the engine used to run it ..... your beloved 2d client CAN'T do it.... it's too outdated for "modern" ideas that come from modern games using MODERN engines. Does THAT make it more clear and plain as to why you can't get most those things and WHY if you want to move forward with new "features" you will have to move off the outdated client?
Earlier today, BioWare co-founders Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk announced their retirement from BioWare/Electronic Arts. The Doctors Have Left the Building : The Ultima Codex
The EC isn't anywhere near modern, so your whole argument is moot. It is newer than CC, but so what if it uses 10x the system resources and is in a perpetual unfinished state?
The UO clientele obviously cares about more than graphics so the devs don't need to worry about competing with the latest GPU hog. But this is
And you think that those FUGLY Graphics in the EC is going to bring in new players. LOL
- You are using a client that should still be in bata.
- The people that did all the mods for the EC are gone
- You can not use the EC by itself to play UO so what new player is even going to try.
- Best for last. The CC 9the most used client) is keeping UO going and if it wasn't for that you would not be here posting about the EC.
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Tazar
Guest
Didn't the mannequin give this ability?
You want to see enhanced here you go Ultima Covers : The Ultima Codex#
yes you can, I did for at least 2 yrs. No idea what you are talking about. The EC is stand alone. The fact that we also may use Player UI's just adds even more features to the stand alone EC.
This is what I am talking about. You even wrote a How To
. If a truly new player tried UO using the EC do you really think they will stick around? UOs main site has very little help and unless someone tells New Player about UOStratics they will maybe last an hour befor shutting down UO and wiping it from thier system. When I first started playing UO (CC many many moons ago) the INGAME HELP function worked, but still the CC is a lot easier to start with and is usable from start up. Why should any new player have to go through all that when they think "Oh EC must be better then CC so I will try that" Load EC. "OMG what is all this junk" Ummmm HELP FUNCTION LOL nothing. Well I guess this game isn't really supported lets try a different game.DIE HARD CC user and I have said it over and over that ECUI is great, better then CC, but takes a long time to learn/setup. ECGraphics all I can say is FFUUGGLLYY I have also said over and over give me ECUI+CCGraphics and I will switch untill then SORRY.
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Woodsman
Guest
Normally I agree with you, and while I think the EC should have a lot more work done to it, it's been pretty good the past few months. I had no problems with Exodus other than the lag of a lot of data from several dozen players casting spells all at the same time. That's my internet connection and computer. EA can't fix that, just like Blizzard or ArenaNet can't.
You should look at why they are gone. They are gone because of a lack of communication and direction with the UO team. Go read what Pinco has said. He's the reason why most of us use the EC, and he had a lot of very relevant things to say about why he's not playing much.
Nobody disputes that it is the most used client, but there is one very important thing left out of that statement: It maybe the most used client, but it's not bringing in thousands of new and returning players every month.
I agree with you there. In theory, although we have yet to see any screenshots outside of the house walls that were posted on the Herald, that is what was being done with the EC graphics update. It wasn't going to be like Kingdom Reborn, it was going to be enhanced high resolution versions of the CC, which is a smart thing to do.
When all has been said and done Lord Frodo, I agree with you on a lot of things, but here I feel that ultimately, the problem is not one client or the other.
They could kill off the EC, put everything behind the CC, and that still doesn't solve the problem, because ultimate the problem is EA's lack of support for UO and EA's continued reduction in the number of dev team members.
If EA doesn't do something, we won't be discussing which client is the problem or which client is UO's future. We'll be discussing which free shard we are all going to play when EA closes UO down, because you can't keep losing players over the long term and you can't keep whittling the size of the dev team.
You carry one with you wherever you go?
I am an EC-only user. However, I agree with a lot of Lord Frodo's points, and I use the EC solely for the UI. Pinco has some very interesting features, but since I tend to stick with vanilla UI's, and I can't pick and chose what pieces I want to use of his UI without a great deal of effort, I don't touch it. The graphics are terrible, and I agree the art team should be going the way of Saphireena, upgrading and enhancing with the existing style and not a total overall that was attempted with Kingdom Reborn.
So I'm a vanilla UI, EC-only user. And my PC is pretty damn good.
Having said that, MalagAste, yes, it's much more buggy than the CC ever was for me. No, I don't CTD to desk top as often as I used to, but I can tell you I still do. And, in my entire recollection of UO, I've never had to log out so many times because I picked up an item, had it DISAPPEAR from my backpack, and couldn't move anything else in my backpack.
The EC, in it's current state, is beta at best. If it's to be the future of UO, it has a long, LONG way to go. And like Woodsman, I don't think EA is going to put the resources into it that it needs to.
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THIS!!!
T
Tazar
Guest
He was talking about sharing an item between two characters... that usually means passing it from one to another in a house... thus the mannequin. If you are just swapping items on the character - a 2nd Dress Macro is all that's needed. I use 30 or so of them to swap out suit pieces and slayer weapons/spellbooks as needed.
First, I use both clients on regular basis. EC has gone through quite a bit of fixes to improve performance and stability but it still has issues.
If I recall correctly, we used to be able to adjust the play screen in CC. Could they just bring that feature back into CC?
If I recall correctly, we used to be able to adjust the play screen in CC. Could they just bring that feature back into CC?
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The 2d Architecture of the CC most likely would prevent any form of zoom capability. This isn't a "slam" on the CC, it's just a simple fact.
The majority of the "ugliness" on the EC is due to the use of Legacy (Classic/2d) graphics which are very low resolution and simply DO NOT SCALE WELL. Once you go outside of the 1:1 zoom level of those graphics, they distort and pixelate (which in theory is what the High Res Artwork project should correct at the very least).
If you mean without any sort of mods, then I HOPE you don't use UOA, UOAM, UOCartographer, UO Mapper, or any other external program meant to work with the UO client. By comparison, player mods for the EC are INTERNAL to the game, not external. If the CC is such perfection, why is UOA such a used program at all? Why not simply block it (and all other programs that hack the data stream) for good if it unnecessary?
The 2d Architecture of the CC most likely would prevent any form of zoom capability. This isn't a "slam" on the CC, it's just a simple fact.
The majority of the "ugliness" on the EC is due to the use of Legacy (Classic/2d) graphics which are very low resolution and simply DO NOT SCALE WELL. Once you go outside of the 1:1 zoom level of those graphics, they distort and pixelate (which in theory is what the High Res Artwork project should correct at the very least).
Given that the EC has been available for a few years now, to continue calling it "beta" would be a misnomer at best. If that's the case, then ALL MMOG clients are betas as changes are made throughout their life spans.
Do you even understand why?
That seems odd because I and many others have used the EC solely since it was released and some even KR from the point it was available forward.
If you mean without any sort of mods, then I HOPE you don't use UOA, UOAM, UOCartographer, UO Mapper, or any other external program meant to work with the UO client. By comparison, player mods for the EC are INTERNAL to the game, not external. If the CC is such perfection, why is UOA such a used program at all? Why not simply block it (and all other programs that hack the data stream) for good if it unnecessary?
Actually BOTH clients are keeping UO going, but right now NEITHER is helping UO to grow. The CC simply is NOT going to bring in "the masses" anymore.
Nor is the EC bringing in thousands or even hundreds of new and returning players every month. Perhaps that is why the EC isn't being finished, it didn't attract bunches of new players, bunches of old players, or even half of the usual players, so they're not going to waste man-hours on it.
Actually if you have looked back at any of the polls done recently regarding the EC/CC debate you'll see that nearly half use the EC. If things were perfected more with the EC and if the DEV's put forth a TRUE effort to fix issues with the EC I think you'd start to see numbers turning and if we could get the DEV's back to improving the EC I know for a FACT that you would see more folk returning to putting in efforts on building MODS for the EC.
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I just put together a new PC. Its a very good computer IMHO. The EC is very "skippy" around houses and NPC's (or lots of players, any tweaks to help this?). The CC does not do this. I am all for moving forward, but at this point, I think an entirely new game is needed.
The EXACT same applies to the cc, when i first started I was lucky enough to have friends who via icq told me what city to 'select' so they could gather me up and tell me what to do, I had to be told how to get on a horse, how to put on the clothes they gave me etc etc. Without that the in game newbie 'help' was rubbish, got me stuck with some deamon (some big thing can't remember exactly)? the first character i tried using the new player thing, and could never even get out of the room it was in. Had no clue on what skills to pick or what stats they should have. Had it not been for my friends, I would of said 'stuff this' and left as well. As for would a new player 'stick around' yes, as with the EC all new players get dumped in New Haven and nine time out of ten there is someone there to help them.This is what I am talking about. You even wrote a How To
DIE HARD CC user and I have said it over and over that ECUI is great, better then CC, but takes a long time to learn/setup. ECGraphics all I can say is FFUUGGLLYY I have also said over and over give me ECUI+CCGraphics and I will switch untill then SORRY.
The' how to' I wrote was to make up for the total lack of information on the client by EA, at the time the new player guide on uo.com, crap that it was, only dealt with the CC. Plus it made it easier for everyone if there was one source of info for the basics and as each player discovered something about the client it was added to the guide. It was designed for those stuck in the cc world who needed to be nursed across to the EC as as with KR (which was buggy as hell and should never of been released when it was) most cc players would only log in for about 5 mins before being confronted with something different and leaving before even giving anything a go. If you are a genuine 'new' player it will take just as long, and probably a LOT longer to learn the CC due to having to get a map program (uoam or mapper or whatever is currently used) and also uoassist as well to actually function half as well as the EC, the macro system in the cc totally sucks and is not intuitive to use by anyone, plus genuine new players these days are much more familiar with hotbars and UI's such as the EC.
Setting up the cc with a map program, uoassist and all that takes a LOT longer than setting anything up in the EC, plus it doesnt' fall over every time there is a patch and uoassist doesn't work til it is updated. Setting macros even with UO assist takes forever for someone not familiar with it. I can set you up with a completely functional desktop in less than a minute. With pretty much all normal macros good to go. I set up desktops on every one of my xshard accounts after returning this time, that is 21 characters over 15 shards, 315 characters in the time it took to 'file save' over each of them, didn't even need to log them in. AS for the graphics, other than the 'mobiles' and some of the 'dungeon' walls etc the other graphics, ie all items, all housing, all grass, trees use the cc graphics so hmmm not sure why you call it ffuugglly when it is the same cc graphic in both clients.
Look I don't mind what client you play, each to their own, however I get kinda tired of miss-information by people re the EC. If you have played both clients for at least one month, full time, having fully learned how each operates and with a desktop set up that has been worked up to suit, then you have something to make a fair comparison on. Most people dumping on the EC have given it less than an day and sometimes even less than an HOUR. I can say I played the cc for YEARS and find the EC far superior once I got FAMILIAR with with the client, learned how to set up macros, assign keys etc etc. Every single one of my friends who were cc 'die hards' who I have managed to coax across to the EC have ended up there, after giving it a proper go, and some of those had played cc since 97, and never used another client. None who actually gave it a month EVER went back.
Anyways, over this thread
anyone who wants a lesson on the EC give me an icq 26 471 683 for help, can get you going in minutes!
What I find most sad is that there's a section of the UO community that takes more glee in seeing a client (and it's players) go, than seeing UO survive and do better than a rival MMO. Does anyone remember the amount of vitriol spewed when the third dawn client got retired? I know that client was only used by about 20% of UO players, but I'm pretty sure most of them left, even going by a personal sample.
And if the client being retired didn't push them away, the reaction from the "community" on stratics certainly sealed the deal.
Do people really wanna repeat it with the EC?
And if the client being retired didn't push them away, the reaction from the "community" on stratics certainly sealed the deal.
Do people really wanna repeat it with the EC?
As a Third Dawn client user, I had no problem giving up the client, the only problem I had was that they closed the 3d client a few weeks before open beta on the KR client, so for a while I did not have a reasonably usable (for me) client for a short time.
The "community" on Stratics has been HEAVILY anti-anything not 2d client pretty constantly. It's more likely that that drove more people away from Stratics than from UO itself.
Some here I'm certain do.
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Woodsman
Guest
What I find sad is that some people who think that for one client to succeed, another has to fail, and this does go back to the beginning of the 3D client.
I remember there was both a pro-3D and a pro-CC faction on the UO.com forums back when UO had an official community site, and it was going both ways. There was an intense hatred of the 3D client from some people who felt that UO was going to go the way of EQ and UO2 and move to first-person 3D, no matter how much the designers stated they weren't.
I don't necessarily blame the hardcore CC fans for their hatred of the 3D and KR clients, because it was stated that with both the 3D and KR clients, that once adoption reached a certain point, they would end the CC. That was the wrong thing to do, because that automatically made certain groups incredibly defensive about the CC, and the blame for that rests squarely upon the shoulders of the producers responsible.
However, that is no longer the case, and the only thing I could say to the EC haters is that no matter how much they hate it, they should at least get fully behind the high resolution graphics, because if something isn't done to bring new players into UO, like I said we won't be arguing over clients, we'll be arguing over which free shard to play or what we're going to do on the last day before EA turns off the servers.
This game needs players to survive. If things are done to bring in more players, then (in theory) there will be enough resources to keep UO going and improve both clients.
EA has already dealt a huge setback to UO with the layoffs over the past few years and with putting money into Ultima Forever that could have been spent on UO. I don't buy into the tinfoil theories that EA is trying to kill UO off - if the people with the power to do that wanted to kill it off, they'd just do it. That's how EA operates, they aren't sentimental about games.
However, I do believe that EA isn't particularly interested in UO's growth or survival. The last time any major EA executive talked about UO, it was to reassure SWTOR players that EA can keep SWTOR going for years to come.
QFT, This
OK I have to say as a returning player and stratics user I find it funny how most people that are all for the EC also heavily rely on a different UI then what is initially used with EC to get it how they want and this is perfectly acceptable to them and makes the EC the greatest compared to the CC. Yet they miss the fact that once you start using other UI's then you are changing the EC into something different so it can't be used in an argument against the CC.
If you truly want to compare the two then compare them as they would be if you just downloaded and install both on your comp with out any user mods made to them. Any other comparison is pure bunk and is like comparing an apple to an apple pie. Once you start changing it from its original form any comparison is moot.
If you truly want to compare the two then compare them as they would be if you just downloaded and install both on your comp with out any user mods made to them. Any other comparison is pure bunk and is like comparing an apple to an apple pie. Once you start changing it from its original form any comparison is moot.
In very basic 'useability' terms, and leaving aside almost totally any consideration of graphics.
Current basic classic is way better than it used to be - some features of uoassist have been included. basic EC is slightly better than basic CC, but not better than basic + assist. Most assist functions can be carried out, but not all.
Pinco's EC has several features which greatly enhance its useability and its ability to look more familiar to CC users. (I use classic looking containers but with a grid without gridlines.)
However there are still some features of assist that are unable to be duplicated. The one I miss most is the ability to write the spells to fill a spell book without the macro stalling for lack of mana.
This I agree with totally:
To return to the OP's question. No, 2D cannot zoom in and out for the simple reason that the older engine used is not capable of that function.
Current basic classic is way better than it used to be - some features of uoassist have been included. basic EC is slightly better than basic CC, but not better than basic + assist. Most assist functions can be carried out, but not all.
Pinco's EC has several features which greatly enhance its useability and its ability to look more familiar to CC users. (I use classic looking containers but with a grid without gridlines.)
However there are still some features of assist that are unable to be duplicated. The one I miss most is the ability to write the spells to fill a spell book without the macro stalling for lack of mana.
This I agree with totally:
A photograph of a lion taken with a modern digital camera when compared to a photograph of a lion taken with a 'box brownie' is still recognisably the same creature, just with more detail. That's how I believe UO should have been updated.
To return to the OP's question. No, 2D cannot zoom in and out for the simple reason that the older engine used is not capable of that function.
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I ran the EC default client as stand alone for at least two years before I left for a break, when I came back I ran the EC without pinko's for a few months til I re familiarized myself with UO, then decided to see what mods Pinko's would add. The thing is any user mod is part of the EC, sits in the game screen, you connect to the player UI's via the log in screen, they form part of the EC package. So to say that using a Player UI is not comparing apples with apples is not quite correct, the EC is and has always been designed to 'support' user mods it forms part of the whole EC experience if you will. Yes you download them separately but they sit within the game files for the client,not as separate programs. But as I said, any comparison I make between clients is based on the functionality and abilities of the EC default. The other UI mods are just nice to have.
Uo assist and mapper and the old uoam are totally separate programs that you have to 'open' outside the client.
My comparison has always been based on the Default EC. The user guide was written based solely on the default EC, all the macro's, information is based on the default.
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Nope. UO Assist redress pulled an item from a container when you hit redress. I had a central container for hgih end items like the jackles collar. I would log on a character and being close to the container I could hit redress, and the chosen suit for that template would jump out the container on on that character. A poison fencer with resist would share the same basic suit with a macer miner smith. They had their own jewels and the miner never removed his gloves. So the UOAssist let all my mage and necro characters share the same orny at the click of a hotkey. I got lucky drop first days of DOOM so no brainer the Orny got around. Thanks to Imbue a crafter with magery gets to sport it all the time now.
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Woodsman
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If you run the CC, do you run it without anything, without UO Assist, without any external mapping utility, just the stock CC?
Probably not. It's the same with the EC. The whole point of using LUA and having an customizable UI with the EC is that, well, you can customize it.
Go survey a dozen people that you know who play MMORPGs where the UIs can be customized or addons can be used, and you'll find that most would laugh at you if you suggested they run the vanilla UI without any changes/addons. Anytime I go back to WOW (which is about to happen again thanks to my old guild bugging me about Kung Fu Warcraft), the first thing I do is go through the list of addons I normally use and get them installed. WOW Insider wrote a couple of long articles about getting your addons ready for the Pandas.
It's completely normal to run with addons or to change UIs to suit your taste in MMORPGs.
When I came back to UO, having missed the KR era, I was surprised/impressed that the EC was customizable, because that is a very forward thinking move, one that is good for players who are used to other MMORPGs.
The customizing isn't that good for players, they have to know how to program in two different programming languages or can't customize the UI their way.
It should have had a lot of customized features built in that you could have gone through and chosen what you liked using switches, much like Pinco did, so that non-programmer players could do the customizing themselves and not be stuck with a package of what someone else considered a great combo of features.
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Woodsman
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Or they can just install Pinco's and get whatever skin they prefer
which is what most do. I do wish they had to resources to support the modding community, people like Pinco and Dermott and the others.
There's some things that are easily done. I made some new icons myself - though at the time Pinco was updating so often and over writing them that I just gave up and used his. There's at least one background that is very like the CC icons
The EC is actually designed for you to use a UI with it... It's done on PURPOSE... Where as the CC is NOT designed for you to use a 3rd party app.... but most still do.
So you can't argue about something the client is designed to do.
Btw, ist it possible to run one account on EC and the second on CC or even more, would you be able to run 4 accounts on the EC+CC simultanious?
With my Meanmachine i use for gaming, i can run 4 CC's the same time without crashing - since i never tried the EC yet, i am curious if you can run at least 2 EC clients at one.
I am realy realy sick of that 800x600 max Game Play Window Size and that non playable 1024x768 Full Screen feature..
But before i start with the EC and getting into all that customizing and 3rd party UI stuff, just wanna checkout the needs i have...
Btw, my Gameingmachine is far beyond most necessary configs you would need even for todays top of the art games so my hardware wouldnt be a problem lol
With my Meanmachine i use for gaming, i can run 4 CC's the same time without crashing - since i never tried the EC yet, i am curious if you can run at least 2 EC clients at one.
I am realy realy sick of that 800x600 max Game Play Window Size and that non playable 1024x768 Full Screen feature..
But before i start with the EC and getting into all that customizing and 3rd party UI stuff, just wanna checkout the needs i have...
Btw, my Gameingmachine is far beyond most necessary configs you would need even for todays top of the art games so my hardware wouldnt be a problem lol
Every so often I get the itch to "try" and support the EC because I'm aware that this is the end of the road for us here..either we embrace it and give EA/Bioware/Mythic/Origin/Your Mother or whoever the hell is running UO these days a reason to support this game and pump some cash into some advertising/high res/ I don't know a decent communication approach maybe hire someone..but unfortunately every time I try it I last a week or two get frustrated and shut it down because it's "just not good"..the graphics are eh at best yes they are better than the CC but the CC flows the enhanced just looks clunky/unfinished and tbh just BAD..you can't play it as a veteran to any real functionality w/o Pincos UI and that's a good hour to setup..GL if you've never played before..EA should have been bringing guys like Pincos onto the team to incorporate it into the EC it shouldn't be a MOD it should be the UI..yes it needs tweaks IMO like the huge ugly health and mana on the corners..but that's a personal dislike..the CC is what I'll continue to play until the EC is half finished atleast but do know I will continue to try it after ever publish to see if it has gotten Any better...here's to hoping they rinse the butter off and quit dropping the ball!!
I've run as many as 4 EC windows at the same time on the same machine... I dual client with the EC quite often... and yes I can run the EC and the CC at the same time...
This! ^^^ they need to be bringing MODers on-board and helping them.. they need to support those who have the know-how to MOD and they need to be helping to improve things...
As for the Ugly things in the corners on Pinco's UI there are ways to turn that off and make it look more like 2d... If you do Ventrilo PM me and we can chat sometime and I can walk you thru the EC/Pinco's Mods and help you better understand it...
And I'm willing to do this for most anyone willing to give the EC a REAL go. If you want to try it out with Pinco's just let me know and I'll do my Best... I've already helped teach one class on it and walked at least a dozen other players thru ... I'd just like more folk to give it a TRUE and Honest Test.
And Yes the Learning curve is HIGH.... But it's VERY high for UO whether you use either client... and most who would come play would NOT be happy about realizing that they'd have to PAY a 3rd party for things like UO Assist. Thankfully UO Cartographer is free... though you could donate..... so is Pinco's .... though I'm sure Pinco would appreciate any donations... and really Pinco deserves it.
I've had up to four EC clients running at once.
Yes I do run just the stock CC with out UO Assist or any external mapping utility.
My whole point is that people are comparing something that isn't very customizable to something that is and are expecting there to be an even comparison.