Now that's a good idea.
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Vendor Search Discussion
- Thread starter Petra Fyde
- Start date
- Watchers 14
Yeah I think the auction house, or whatever should be totally separate.
Maybe there should be a kind of mailbox system for players to deliver item they want listed in the auction. If the item hits reserve and sells the player can be credited the money straight to the bank box. If the item don't sell it can also be sent to the bank box. This way sellers don't even need to attend the auction, just submit the items.
Also how often for auctions? Weekly, monthly etc? What do you think? - I vote every 2 weeks.
Good point. I'd love to be able to search for a ring with say DI30 or similar. Searching for items by mods would be a bonus.
I am wondering about the architecture of the "software" running this vendor search and/or auction house - especially when it comes for UPDATING it in game.
I mean, item "uploading" und refreshing rate? A one time rate at server maintaince isnt what i would desire - it would have to be LIVE or at least each hour...
Very important would be that this system not causing a massive lag spike everytime the update starting grabbing the items from the listed vendors..
The search filters will not be a big problem, they just have to be implemented piece by piece....
You alos have to think about if an auction house wont bring up to much "basic" stuff that people start to auction off just for "fun" especially if they dunnot want or have any vendors...
And for sure it will cut the vendors down - if i can place every item in any quantity for any price on the auction house, why should i run a vendor anymore?
Should at least be combined with the fact, that you need a vendor who holds the item that you going to list on the auction house - no item placing on auction house or search without a vendor, perma.
I mean, item "uploading" und refreshing rate? A one time rate at server maintaince isnt what i would desire - it would have to be LIVE or at least each hour...
Very important would be that this system not causing a massive lag spike everytime the update starting grabbing the items from the listed vendors..
The search filters will not be a big problem, they just have to be implemented piece by piece....
You alos have to think about if an auction house wont bring up to much "basic" stuff that people start to auction off just for "fun" especially if they dunnot want or have any vendors...
And for sure it will cut the vendors down - if i can place every item in any quantity for any price on the auction house, why should i run a vendor anymore?
Should at least be combined with the fact, that you need a vendor who holds the item that you going to list on the auction house - no item placing on auction house or search without a vendor, perma.
For me THIS is not a Con but a clear PRO. Luna = overestimated and overpriced on many shards. Example Drachenfels: When a Luna house collapses (unfortunately mostly in the deep night Middle European Time), people from other timezones (e.g. Atlantics) grab the spots and try to re-sell them for hundreds of millions. You can bet what kind of vendor will be placed there... Another mega-store with incredibly high-prices - and no decent shop that provides community with needed stuff...
Shop search would be really great - no negative points for me. Most important pre-requisite: ALL locations on the shard should be listed - in order to break luna monopole. Effect: People will really GO shopping again and get in touch to all the nice locations of Sosaria.
So: PLEASE DO IT!
For me it is only a clear CON!!: In my humble opinion, UO had up to now the best vendor system of all MMORPGs. The addition of a vendor search would completely ruin the atmosphere of classic UO gameplay. There will be no more shopping trips to look for a bargain at different locations, we will only get another World of Warcraft auction house clone trading system, where all trading interactions take place on one platform?
DEVS, PLEASE DON'T DO THIS!!
We would then always know where we could buy a certain item? Where is the realism in that? UO takes place in a fantasy scenario comparable to the Middle Ages; where on earth would you find a central trade hub in the Middle Ages like in a modern electronic stock market? The classic vendor system is one of the few things that distinguishes UO from all other MMORPGs, it is just unique in itself, like its housing system and its droppable items, these are essential features of a classical sandbox roleplaying game, and the destruction of the actual vendor system would certainly lead to a further loss of your already diminished veteran player base. I would then after 15 years really start thinking about cancelling my three accounts.
DEVS, PLEASE DON'T DO THIS!!
We would then always know where we could buy a certain item? Where is the realism in that? UO takes place in a fantasy scenario comparable to the Middle Ages; where on earth would you find a central trade hub in the Middle Ages like in a modern electronic stock market? The classic vendor system is one of the few things that distinguishes UO from all other MMORPGs, it is just unique in itself, like its housing system and its droppable items, these are essential features of a classical sandbox roleplaying game, and the destruction of the actual vendor system would certainly lead to a further loss of your already diminished veteran player base. I would then after 15 years really start thinking about cancelling my three accounts.
I think a fair % of players either walk around looking for deals or spend time on an external search, it is part of their gaming experience. I call this a time sink. I love it when people say "well this new system will allow players more time to play the game". (or just buy the skill so you don't waste time training and can play the game). These are all part of the game and is the reason I still am playing after 15 years (I used to enjoy training as much as "playing the game")
Anyway I am in favor of searches since we have none available right now on Siege and I think it can be a good thing, but I worry about removing all the shoping (time sink) from the game.
Anyway I am in favor of searches since we have none available right now on Siege and I think it can be a good thing, but I worry about removing all the shoping (time sink) from the game.
I realy need to go out today and hide next to some of the huge Vendor Houses to check the traffic and conversations between seller and buyer - because actually, if i go shopping for a bit, i barely see anyone...no customer, no seller....only vendors...even at Luna...
Sorry but everybody, not just resellers, are upping thier prices on all leathers and ingots for some reason.
How to fix this problem.
- Do not buy from them and let vendor fees eat up thier gold.
- Do it yourself or get a group of players together and go farm the heck outta this and under cut everybody and make a lot of gold doing it. 4 or 5 shooters (UO tamers) and a good skinning crew (other chars with packies) killed a lot of buffalo (drakes, dragons and GDs) and collected a whole lot of hides. How many barbed leather do you think you could farm it just a few hours with a crew like this?
How is UO having its own search going to make all these RESELLERS you are screaming about when they are already here, because you just proved it by going to that No Named Site and using it just like they already do.
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We shouldnt get to personal here on peoples oppinions if i am allowed to say that here 
I think its great to see so much opinions all together AND so much brainstorming going on and great ideas comming in to say!
I dunnot want to open a browser to search for UO items i want, or i want to check, or i consider getting myselfe...
If there would be just a auction house, were all the vendors (that players want to) listed, it would be GREAT to have, not much more...
Vendors should totaly stay in players hands and stay at their houses - no auction house shuld replace a vendor ran by a player - it should just get easier to find something in game a player offerning.
And btw, with the huge amounts of gold alot of players yet have in game, it would be easy till the end of the game, to anytime sell someone's items out and stock them OR resell them quick OR start to bring that items value quick down - its 1:1 like in real lifes economy...
I think its great to see so much opinions all together AND so much brainstorming going on and great ideas comming in to say!
I dunnot want to open a browser to search for UO items i want, or i want to check, or i consider getting myselfe...
If there would be just a auction house, were all the vendors (that players want to) listed, it would be GREAT to have, not much more...
Vendors should totaly stay in players hands and stay at their houses - no auction house shuld replace a vendor ran by a player - it should just get easier to find something in game a player offerning.
And btw, with the huge amounts of gold alot of players yet have in game, it would be easy till the end of the game, to anytime sell someone's items out and stock them OR resell them quick OR start to bring that items value quick down - its 1:1 like in real lifes economy...
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I don't buy out cheap vendors and put the items on my vendors at dramatically increased prices to force many Players to either pay mega-gold or do without the item. I'm one of the Players in favor of fixing problems the economy has, so I don't add to this one by being another price gouger.
I never said you were a RESELLER I said you used the same site that RESELLERS used and having an ingame search is not going to make RESELLERS, they are already here.
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I personally don't like the idea of a multi shard AH but some people might. However, this is another one of those instances where xshard trading would be gutted and I seriously doubt that the team has a chance in hell of disrupting an existing revenue stream.Here is another wild idea
How about keep vendor search for the shard only and use a auction house to sell/buy items across all shards? (With some limits maybe)
Would that (If thats technical be possible) work or be a good idea?
Just to see what people think about all this stuff.
I'm confient you will find, as I have, that this idea of interaction with the vendor owners is a false misconception and is an extremely rare occurence. Perhaps the people who DO have this interaction have made great pains in order to do this or have a dedicated customer base they spend time to maintain. While I applaud this dedication I don't feel that a new system will affect this type of situation nor do I believe this should hold the game back.
PRO:
ALL vendors listed means no one can gouge prices nearly as effectively as they are able to now. To purchase an item with a shard wide vendor search would require a search by item, and then a filter by price. The searcher can then go to THE lowest priced vendor, with every vendor on the shard selling the item displayed. This way, the gouging that could occur because a vendor/reseller found an out of the way house with new vendors that like to price low goes away. No more "secrets" and not nearly as much margin in the reselling game this way, as I see it, unless I am missing some critical point (and I well could be).
I have spread tens of thousands of runes, I am certain, in my 15 years of playing. I have had "Wilderness" vendors for at least ten of my fifteen years. I spread so many runes that I had PK guilds copy my rune markings and dye the runes to get people to recall to Fel...too funny.
I own a Luna house now and have for about five years, and I would welcome this change, as it should hopefully give a FAR more even playing field for vendors that cannot locate in Luna or Zento.
I also firmly believe that having it be a shard wide search, and all that can bring, that it will enhance a player experience in the game.
CON:
I am really unable to think of any cons to this, except it will devalue real estate in Luna and Zento, but again, although I paid a ton for my Luna house, I will accept that devaluation to help level the vending playing field for all. I can accept the devaluation of my own property to aid the community of the game I love!
ALL vendors listed means no one can gouge prices nearly as effectively as they are able to now. To purchase an item with a shard wide vendor search would require a search by item, and then a filter by price. The searcher can then go to THE lowest priced vendor, with every vendor on the shard selling the item displayed. This way, the gouging that could occur because a vendor/reseller found an out of the way house with new vendors that like to price low goes away. No more "secrets" and not nearly as much margin in the reselling game this way, as I see it, unless I am missing some critical point (and I well could be).
I have spread tens of thousands of runes, I am certain, in my 15 years of playing. I have had "Wilderness" vendors for at least ten of my fifteen years. I spread so many runes that I had PK guilds copy my rune markings and dye the runes to get people to recall to Fel...too funny.
I own a Luna house now and have for about five years, and I would welcome this change, as it should hopefully give a FAR more even playing field for vendors that cannot locate in Luna or Zento.
I also firmly believe that having it be a shard wide search, and all that can bring, that it will enhance a player experience in the game.
CON:
I am really unable to think of any cons to this, except it will devalue real estate in Luna and Zento, but again, although I paid a ton for my Luna house, I will accept that devaluation to help level the vending playing field for all. I can accept the devaluation of my own property to aid the community of the game I love!
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I'd be for a search function as long as it also includes some reforms.
1. Empty Commodity Deeds still cost too little. 5 GP, really? Real life "redeem for X" contracts tended to charge processing fees based on the contents. Having deeds charge 1 GP per item in the stack would be good gold sink, while not appreciably raising the unit cost. They could also be made so that having the deed maker break the deed for the contents, or donating it to a collection, refunds the fee, or applies it to the donation.
2. Given that default prices for stacks have always been screwy (and not reflect the default price for single items), having vendors only take individual items or deeds would be an acceptable change. This would also tie into 1. above, and 3.
3. Still allow reselling, but have the Vendor Penalty that a shop owner pays when they remove and replace an item within certain time periods apply to any item that is bought off one account's vendor, then placed for sale on another account's vendor within the same server uptime period (i.e. have the penalty go away on maintenance for items already bought). Valuable individual items would then just have a slightly higher resell value to compensate, unless the reseller wants to sit on the item for a day.
Having stacked items restricted to deeds (as in #2) would be a mechanism to keep a reseller from breaking stacks into new piles to avoid a vendor penalty, and would reduce the amount of "petty" resellers buying to resell for low profits, just to restock their vendors without the effort the original seller put in. After all, it would be easier, quicker and more profitable to go buy gems or ammunition at remote NPCs (and ones that constantly spawn and despawn, like at the Ilshenar random camps), and bring them to Luna for sale to the NPCs there, than going around cleaning out some guy's ingots then reselling for 5 GP more per ingot - plus it saves you the vendor fees.
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As for in-game auctions, I see all kinds of errors, griefing and the like possible. They'd have to deal with the check detection bugs already present, or convert money to where it's not physical items anymore when in the bank. Then, you'd have to find some way to make sure someone doesn't move all their gold over to one character, bid, then remove all the gold, to run up bids, and cause the bid to bounce - or, on the totally innocent end, accidentally spend or lose money down to below your high bid through death, fees, etc. I'd about rather there be auctioneer NPCs where you could take some of the work out of existing in-game auctions (place an item on NPC, specify a starting bid and run time, then people present could click on the NPC to get a gump to type their bid (based on their money in the bank), be told the current leading bid, and the highest bid at the end of the time buys it with an automatic withdrawal) - and as with current vendors, you have to stay within a certain distance of the placement to participate.
1. Empty Commodity Deeds still cost too little. 5 GP, really? Real life "redeem for X" contracts tended to charge processing fees based on the contents. Having deeds charge 1 GP per item in the stack would be good gold sink, while not appreciably raising the unit cost. They could also be made so that having the deed maker break the deed for the contents, or donating it to a collection, refunds the fee, or applies it to the donation.
2. Given that default prices for stacks have always been screwy (and not reflect the default price for single items), having vendors only take individual items or deeds would be an acceptable change. This would also tie into 1. above, and 3.
3. Still allow reselling, but have the Vendor Penalty that a shop owner pays when they remove and replace an item within certain time periods apply to any item that is bought off one account's vendor, then placed for sale on another account's vendor within the same server uptime period (i.e. have the penalty go away on maintenance for items already bought). Valuable individual items would then just have a slightly higher resell value to compensate, unless the reseller wants to sit on the item for a day.
Having stacked items restricted to deeds (as in #2) would be a mechanism to keep a reseller from breaking stacks into new piles to avoid a vendor penalty, and would reduce the amount of "petty" resellers buying to resell for low profits, just to restock their vendors without the effort the original seller put in. After all, it would be easier, quicker and more profitable to go buy gems or ammunition at remote NPCs (and ones that constantly spawn and despawn, like at the Ilshenar random camps), and bring them to Luna for sale to the NPCs there, than going around cleaning out some guy's ingots then reselling for 5 GP more per ingot - plus it saves you the vendor fees.
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As for in-game auctions, I see all kinds of errors, griefing and the like possible. They'd have to deal with the check detection bugs already present, or convert money to where it's not physical items anymore when in the bank. Then, you'd have to find some way to make sure someone doesn't move all their gold over to one character, bid, then remove all the gold, to run up bids, and cause the bid to bounce - or, on the totally innocent end, accidentally spend or lose money down to below your high bid through death, fees, etc. I'd about rather there be auctioneer NPCs where you could take some of the work out of existing in-game auctions (place an item on NPC, specify a starting bid and run time, then people present could click on the NPC to get a gump to type their bid (based on their money in the bank), be told the current leading bid, and the highest bid at the end of the time buys it with an automatic withdrawal) - and as with current vendors, you have to stay within a certain distance of the placement to participate.
I paid nothing but virtual gold which holds no real value for my Napa Luna house. I allow anyone who wants a vendor to place a vendor for free regardless of being in my guild, faction or what ever. The house has held no value though it was owned by a friend who wanted to reduce the RL cost of maintaining a extra account to which I took over so I enjoy maintaining that even though he has since retired from the game. This could devalue my place further but in all reality it it nearly worthless as it is not on ATL anyways.
I can see the benifits of a in game vendor search for UO for many reasons such as ease of use, non third party interaction, helping the player base and increasing the value of the game but all of this is wasted if no one is here hence why I have stated that we need to do other stuff first to get people here. I'm not a owner of these sites, I don't activly script up resources though if I needed them and didn't have the gold I'd sure do it with no worries or moral issues but I am a active player of UO with three paid for accounts which I wish to use for another 5-10 years but I am worried that I might be the only guy left.
I can see the benifits of a in game vendor search for UO for many reasons such as ease of use, non third party interaction, helping the player base and increasing the value of the game but all of this is wasted if no one is here hence why I have stated that we need to do other stuff first to get people here. I'm not a owner of these sites, I don't activly script up resources though if I needed them and didn't have the gold I'd sure do it with no worries or moral issues but I am a active player of UO with three paid for accounts which I wish to use for another 5-10 years but I am worried that I might be the only guy left.
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Personally, I think the Vendor Search system should be what UO uses and keep the AH out of the picture, not that I am against AHs in general, but that it would be too much of a change in what UO is. VS should allow players to re-create communities outside of Luna, an AH would not IMO.
I would disagree on the cross shard auction house. But then, I'll also admit I've been very anti-x-shard trading since shard transfers were added to the game. It's been one aspect that I think has caused MANY more problems than it has solved not the least of which were BAD dupe bugs.
Personally, I think the Vendor Search system should be what UO uses and keep the AH out of the picture, not that I am against AHs in general, but that it would be too much of a change in what UO is. VS should allow players to re-create communities outside of Luna, an AH would not IMO.
I dont know how many shards are using this but on LS there is a magincia vendor that buys leather. He buys them for more than I was selling them for on my vendor in the middle of nowhere. I really dont care if this person sells them for double in luna. I got what I wanted.
This ability is a step toward easier buying and selling of goods.
UO's design of the vendor search will be what makes or breaks it. Can the game allow searches for a specific item with specific propertirs? Only the devs know.
The D3 auction house is basically a vendor search. You dont have to "auction" the item you put a buyout price and it it sold when someone wants to buy at the price. You can put a minimum bid or not.
If I want to sell a ring for 100gp them I can start an auction at 100gp and have 100gp as the buyout. When someone wants it, it is theres instantly. Just like a vendor now. But by setting no buyout, the price can go higher. So, it does both.
This ability is a step toward easier buying and selling of goods.
UO's design of the vendor search will be what makes or breaks it. Can the game allow searches for a specific item with specific propertirs? Only the devs know.
The D3 auction house is basically a vendor search. You dont have to "auction" the item you put a buyout price and it it sold when someone wants to buy at the price. You can put a minimum bid or not.
If I want to sell a ring for 100gp them I can start an auction at 100gp and have 100gp as the buyout. When someone wants it, it is theres instantly. Just like a vendor now. But by setting no buyout, the price can go higher. So, it does both.
A Sosaria-Wide "In-Game" vendor search would be a great, long-overdue addition.
Pro's: A "leveling-of-the-playing-field" for ALL vendors throughout the realm. Especially good for keeping newer players needs met with the things that they need at prices that they can afford.
Con's: Really none that I can think of. (Those who are concerned that "re-sellers" will ruin everything by buying low and re-selling high simply haven't thought this thru enough. Those re-sellers are simply NOT going to be interested in running around grabbing up all those things that "normal" (and especially newer) players need - because there's just not enough in it for them).
Suggestions: There are some really great ideas in this thread regarding what should or shouldn't be part of the new Sosaria-Wide "In-Game" vendor search, but here's the way I see it:
The way it stands right now, is that every piece of inventory on every vendor in the lands is KNOWN by the present code for UO - as are the game coords for each of those vendors. So nothing has to be added or changed in that regard. Implementing the search, in terms of what additional coding is required, would simply require the devs to pull all of that data into a database that can be presented "in-game" - and that is certainly doable....
Now, the larger questions/suggestions revolve around HOW to obtain an item from that huge inventory of vendors. I am of the belief that the immediate aim of the devs in this regard, should be to apply the KISS principle - keep it as simple as possible in the beginning and then continue to build on that base. Give us the search and include the in-game coord's for the vendor, period. More can be added later, but let's get the basic search down first (bug-free). I certainly do not mind having to run to a given set of coord's and - if a vendor looks promising for future visits - simply mark a rune. (I know that I will be using a It will also afford all of us the opportunity to re-visit or visit for the first time places that we haven't seen for some time, if ever... It will be wonderful to see players "out and about" in Sosaria like it once was....
Once the search engine is in place and functioning properly as above, then the dev's can proceed to step 2 which would probably be to implement the ability to make the purchase from anywhere without actually visiting the vendor, not that I personally would like this implementation for the reasons I stated above. I don't see a practical way to include the ability to "transport" a player to a vendor, simply because - exactly WHERE would the recall take you? It certainly can't recall you to the vendor's exact coord's since he/she's standing in the way. So WHERE exactly would the code for this take you? What "spot" around a vendor would always be "open" to transport/recall you to? Just can't be done, IMHO....
I vote for a simple search that gives the item's description and the coord's... That should be pretty easy to implement and bug-free in a short amount of time.
One last thing... Expecting the devs to include any means by which "re-sellers" could be "thwarted" is IMHO - simply a bridge to far... And I think that it won't take long after the search is implemented for us all to realize that we are worrying about a problem that simply won't be one...
Just sayin......
Pro's: A "leveling-of-the-playing-field" for ALL vendors throughout the realm. Especially good for keeping newer players needs met with the things that they need at prices that they can afford.
Con's: Really none that I can think of. (Those who are concerned that "re-sellers" will ruin everything by buying low and re-selling high simply haven't thought this thru enough. Those re-sellers are simply NOT going to be interested in running around grabbing up all those things that "normal" (and especially newer) players need - because there's just not enough in it for them).
Suggestions: There are some really great ideas in this thread regarding what should or shouldn't be part of the new Sosaria-Wide "In-Game" vendor search, but here's the way I see it:
The way it stands right now, is that every piece of inventory on every vendor in the lands is KNOWN by the present code for UO - as are the game coords for each of those vendors. So nothing has to be added or changed in that regard. Implementing the search, in terms of what additional coding is required, would simply require the devs to pull all of that data into a database that can be presented "in-game" - and that is certainly doable....
Now, the larger questions/suggestions revolve around HOW to obtain an item from that huge inventory of vendors. I am of the belief that the immediate aim of the devs in this regard, should be to apply the KISS principle - keep it as simple as possible in the beginning and then continue to build on that base. Give us the search and include the in-game coord's for the vendor, period. More can be added later, but let's get the basic search down first (bug-free). I certainly do not mind having to run to a given set of coord's and - if a vendor looks promising for future visits - simply mark a rune. (I know that I will be using a It will also afford all of us the opportunity to re-visit or visit for the first time places that we haven't seen for some time, if ever... It will be wonderful to see players "out and about" in Sosaria like it once was....
Once the search engine is in place and functioning properly as above, then the dev's can proceed to step 2 which would probably be to implement the ability to make the purchase from anywhere without actually visiting the vendor, not that I personally would like this implementation for the reasons I stated above. I don't see a practical way to include the ability to "transport" a player to a vendor, simply because - exactly WHERE would the recall take you? It certainly can't recall you to the vendor's exact coord's since he/she's standing in the way. So WHERE exactly would the code for this take you? What "spot" around a vendor would always be "open" to transport/recall you to? Just can't be done, IMHO....
I vote for a simple search that gives the item's description and the coord's... That should be pretty easy to implement and bug-free in a short amount of time.
One last thing... Expecting the devs to include any means by which "re-sellers" could be "thwarted" is IMHO - simply a bridge to far... And I think that it won't take long after the search is implemented for us all to realize that we are worrying about a problem that simply won't be one...
Just sayin......
I am confused. If I have something to sell at a price I want, why would I be worried if some reseller bought it all to resell? I mean, what's the problem? For example, I would be thrilled if I put out 10 forged pardons at 900K each and they were bought the same day and offered somewhere else at 1.5 M each. I have 9M in my pocket. Isn't that the point?
I am pro for vendor search as long as the search window is well designed. I am a little apprehensive though on how the search engine will match up what is available with what I want. I have not used the unnamed website, so don't know exactly how it works. Let's say I want to find a repond slayer katana.... Would the search engine respond to Katana, with various options? Would it respond to slayer, with various options? Or for that matter, will it respond to repond slayer katana with appropriate response?
Another thing. If you have your item found and listed on the search page, why even recall to the vendor? Perhaps you should be able to buy it right off the search page. I know people would complain loudly about this, but for sure it is the logical next step. I can see it now, the Fel group will complain that people will not recall to their vendors and demand (perhaps rightly so) that a purchase can be made right from the search page.
I am pro for vendor search as long as the search window is well designed. I am a little apprehensive though on how the search engine will match up what is available with what I want. I have not used the unnamed website, so don't know exactly how it works. Let's say I want to find a repond slayer katana.... Would the search engine respond to Katana, with various options? Would it respond to slayer, with various options? Or for that matter, will it respond to repond slayer katana with appropriate response?
Another thing. If you have your item found and listed on the search page, why even recall to the vendor? Perhaps you should be able to buy it right off the search page. I know people would complain loudly about this, but for sure it is the logical next step. I can see it now, the Fel group will complain that people will not recall to their vendors and demand (perhaps rightly so) that a purchase can be made right from the search page.
I apologize, I'm skimming, but, I'd rather see a system which catalogs all vendors in all homes rather than a system which operates out of an Auction House. An Auction House would cater the minority if used the traditional, physical way, with limited spots at cost. I'd want a system which encourages anyone to sell items, not only the rich or the few who are able to get the "good spots."
That would be awesome! No more Luna lag! And I could shop on my murderers!
Lol, is there a reason to at this point?How? You don't play.
. RL stuff has me preoccupied anyways. These forums are about all I can do to participate lately :/.
Lol, is there a reason to at this point?
W
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Guest
If you feel that strongly about it, lobby EA to spend the 10 minutes needed to add official UO forums to Social.BioWare.com. I couldn't posted in the official Warhammer forums (how bad it is that WAR has them and we don't
) without an active WAR account.And you used to not be able to post on UO.com unless you had an account as well. It was done through MyUO.
The richest character I had when playing WOW was the level 9 dwarf that sat in the Auction house and never left accept to go up to the mail box. The richer she got, the more rich she became. Those UO players with mega billions now will forever 'own' all vendor items if an auction house is established. At least right now with vendors there is some ability for players to pick up a bargain, an AH will kill that completely and the mega rich will have 100% of the power.
My account is fully paid for till next year. The game play is still the same. Nothing has changed since the last time I logged in on my over powered thrower. Any input I have should still be relevant correct?
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Woodsman
Guest
Those players you are talking about will not have "100% of the power" unless they can control all mobs, all resources, that spawn, everything that a crafter does, etc.
And right now, the people you are talking about are already running in-game auction houses or benefit from out-of-game illlegal 3rd party search sites, and they will continue to do so unless EA ever decides to enforce the TOS.
There are a few UO players that have mega billions and those few will probably ALWAYS be here (one way or another).... So, let's just get a piece of it back with a Sosaria Vendor Search system... That's all...
Just sayin....
Just sayin....
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I think a vendor search is a good idea but like previously mentioned all it should do is give you the coordinates or show you a map so actually getting to the vendor would be up to you. In no way should it automatically transport you to the vendor or allow you to buy without physically being at the vendor.
I think the best thing to do for vendors will be to automatically hide vendors that don't have items to sell on them. I hate going to a vendor house just to find out of the 20 vendors there only 1 actually has any stock.
I think the best thing to do for vendors will be to automatically hide vendors that don't have items to sell on them. I hate going to a vendor house just to find out of the 20 vendors there only 1 actually has any stock.
They don't have to control all mobs, resources and what crafters do, they will play an auction house like a fiddle with fully automated bots and control everything put up for sale instead. They do it in WOW, they will do it in uo if they do not have to leave the AH to buy and sell. Whenever someone puts ANYTHING up for sale at a price less than themselves it is bought and re-posted instantly. What people do outside of the vendor system, one to one sales, flogging stuff at luna bank etc is not what this thread is about it is about a 'vendor search system' and others have been talking about in game auction houses.
People that run existing auction houses put lots up for sale (supplied by players) with a reserve price nominated by the seller and healthy bidding by people attending the auction determines the selling price. it has nothing to do with vendors nor an in game auction house system. Point is you have 'BE THERE' in game to purchase, and need to physically go to the location in game to attend and auction and wait through all the lots to 'buy' what it is you want, not just logging in 6 times a day or so to scan an auction house and buy up all targeted items.
Yes a lot already benefit from illegal 3rd party search sites, but adding an 'approved' in game search site is not going to stop what they are doing just assist it especially if it scans every vendor on the shard. What you do not want to see is an official auction house where you can buy stuff direct without the need to physically 'go' to the seller.
It is a double edged sword, be careful what you wish for.
I would like to thank everyone who already particpated in this thread to share their ideas,thoughts and concerns. This is a good way to give the Devs the feedback they need on this system. It won't be a easy task to please everyone but atleast they know what we think.
Keep up the good and healthy discussion. And from me a
Keep up the good and healthy discussion. And from me a
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The only con I can think of is that you wont run into peeps out shopping, or as a shop owner meet the people you are supplying, which is a bummer.
The major pro obviously is that you would be able to run a successful vendor house out of any spot in the game. Right now its a real chore to get a good spot, and without one you must constantly advertise and drop runes.
So I think the good outweighs the bad. Of course it all depends on how the interface works.
Not necessariily, it would depend how it's implemented. If the search merely supplies the location of the requested object and the buyer still has to visit that location to purchase, then you will have the chance to meet.
A suggestion:
The owner of a vendor has the option to subscribe to an advert system.
The advert enters the iems on the vendor into the database on either a local or nominated town.
Players visit the notice board in the town to consult the small ads (the local database).
The location of the item is shown against the item so the char can travel there to find it.
This adds a meeting place in the city, and allows a degree of local-ness for people who like to live in a particular town or region.
Exactly what i was trying to explain
You will not only still have your Vendors and the possible conversations between buyer/seller, you will also have a new gathering point in towns, and you have the so called Auction House to search what you need and get the coordinates there - or, what alot of people suggested yet, have a tele/recall Option there next to the vendor (or a "buy rune to this vendor" option)
I realy only see Pro's anymore....
Basically every significant con to this I can think of has a workaround.
Con: Hurts immersion.
Workaround: Firstly, walking around and window shopping at random vendors will still have its place. You don't always know what you're looking for until you see it, but when you do know what you're looking for you don't want to waste the time wandering around hoping to run into it. That is annoying, not immersive.
Secondly, the official vendor database can be effectively RPed as word of mouth. If peasants in 1381 England could somehow mobilize for a massive revolt that very nearly established a prototypical Communist state in medieval England through word of mouth and messengers alone? Then surely the more-modern UO world can effectively communicate something as simple as "I saw what you were looking for at ______."
Thirdly, this functionality already exists and is in wide use, it's just only selected places rather than shard-wide, and comes from a non-official source.
Con: The reselling issue.
Workaround: Firstly, perhaps either the vendor or the house owner can opt out of the vendor search. (RP-wise this is a localized vendor that simply doesn't want much traffic.)
Secondly, reselling happens even now, so to some degree it's a zero effect.
Thirdly, is reselling such a bad thing? As others have pointed out, sooner or later if it isn't worth it for the gatherer, the reseller will be out of business as well. That is how economies work, for good or ill. (It doesn't take someone who supports capitalism to recognize this btw; just someone who notices how things work.)
Fourthly, selling through global chat or direct player interactions can bypass the vendor system, and hence the vendor search, entirely.
Con: Will hurt the current vendor search sites. (I consider this a con because they have provided a necessary service, even if we don't all approve of how they have provided it, for some years now.)
Workaround: Firstly, those sites will still have a niche in terms of searches, because they offer a more-focused search of specific high-vendor traffic areas.
Secondly, those sites also tend to offer other services beyond the vendor search. They will, I think, survive an official, shard-wide vendor search.
Con: Will hurt Luna, Zento area, and New Magincia. (I consider this a con because people have fought hard and spent a lot of money to have shops in those areas, and it's only fair to consider their feelings, and their pocketbooks.)
Workaround: Those places will still have their place and still do well. They will still be the best place by for for any kind of selling wherein customers don't know what they are looking for until they see it. Those places also have the vendors that are most-convenient to get to. And where you're most-likely to run into a fellow shopper for additional commerce or socialization.
My conclusion is....Many pros, and every significant con I can think of has a workaround.
If it's doable, do it.
-Galen's player
Con: Hurts immersion.
Workaround: Firstly, walking around and window shopping at random vendors will still have its place. You don't always know what you're looking for until you see it, but when you do know what you're looking for you don't want to waste the time wandering around hoping to run into it. That is annoying, not immersive.
Secondly, the official vendor database can be effectively RPed as word of mouth. If peasants in 1381 England could somehow mobilize for a massive revolt that very nearly established a prototypical Communist state in medieval England through word of mouth and messengers alone? Then surely the more-modern UO world can effectively communicate something as simple as "I saw what you were looking for at ______."
Thirdly, this functionality already exists and is in wide use, it's just only selected places rather than shard-wide, and comes from a non-official source.
Con: The reselling issue.
Workaround: Firstly, perhaps either the vendor or the house owner can opt out of the vendor search. (RP-wise this is a localized vendor that simply doesn't want much traffic.)
Secondly, reselling happens even now, so to some degree it's a zero effect.
Thirdly, is reselling such a bad thing? As others have pointed out, sooner or later if it isn't worth it for the gatherer, the reseller will be out of business as well. That is how economies work, for good or ill. (It doesn't take someone who supports capitalism to recognize this btw; just someone who notices how things work.)
Fourthly, selling through global chat or direct player interactions can bypass the vendor system, and hence the vendor search, entirely.
Con: Will hurt the current vendor search sites. (I consider this a con because they have provided a necessary service, even if we don't all approve of how they have provided it, for some years now.)
Workaround: Firstly, those sites will still have a niche in terms of searches, because they offer a more-focused search of specific high-vendor traffic areas.
Secondly, those sites also tend to offer other services beyond the vendor search. They will, I think, survive an official, shard-wide vendor search.
Con: Will hurt Luna, Zento area, and New Magincia. (I consider this a con because people have fought hard and spent a lot of money to have shops in those areas, and it's only fair to consider their feelings, and their pocketbooks.)
Workaround: Those places will still have their place and still do well. They will still be the best place by for for any kind of selling wherein customers don't know what they are looking for until they see it. Those places also have the vendors that are most-convenient to get to. And where you're most-likely to run into a fellow shopper for additional commerce or socialization.
My conclusion is....Many pros, and every significant con I can think of has a workaround.
If it's doable, do it.
-Galen's player
W
Woodsman
Guest
It is a double-edged sword, but it's also something that's been going on for years, and it's not something you can really regulate without destroying more of UO's sandbox than has already been destroyed.
I've been on both sides of the reseller issue in UO. I was a heavy reseller of ingots and lumber, and my best tools were runebooks full of locations of vendors all across my shard that sold ingots and lumber. Lack of an in-game search or auction houses, and even a lack of illegal third party sites had no impact on me whatsoever. The biggest thing that impacted me was finding the time to visit all of the shops I had marked runes for. An hour a day wasn't enough time to visit all of the vendor shops I had runes for.
These days, if you have no scruples and don't mind risking your account (slightly) it's even easier with scripts and the illegal third party sites, and I'm pretty sure people are doing it.
As for auction houses, I was initially opposed to auction houses when people were talking about it last year. I felt it's too easy and could ruin the immersion and do away with the need for vendors, but you know what? It works in many other games. I made I don't know how much in the WOW auction houses over the years, and I've more than paid for Diablo III with it's RMT auction house (note: I do not want RMT sanctioned in UO).
As for people trying to control markets or reselling, like Dermott said in another thread, as long as I can create those resources (by mining/LJing, crafting, BOD runs, or farming mobs), nobody can control what I do.
I don't stress over what people do with things once I sell them, whether it's in-game, or in real-life on eBay or Craig's List.
It's not worth my time to fret over whether I priced something high enough, and it's damn sure not worth my time stressing over what people do with things once they buy them from me. That's valuable time that I could better spend elsewhere in the game.
Ditto on hating all the empty vendors.
They should just do something like have the vendor quit if it's empty for more than a week and that account has logged in at least five times in that week, then just dump the gold and items into the bank boxes of the vendor owners accounts characters, not the shop owners. Anything that thoses bank boxes can't hold is lost. This would be a real motivation to keep something on the vendor and check it every few days to make sure it has something on it.
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Woodsman
Guest
This is how I feel, and I would add that as far as Luna and Zento, Amazon.com and one or two other online sites can provide just about everything I would want at a mall for a cheaper price, yet I still find myself at malls, and I still find the good ones heavily trafficked.
Besides, Luna and Zento (and New Magincia's) biggest problems are the same problems they've been for years: A lack of UO players. If you could double the number of players in UO, you would see double the number of traffic in those places.
Those places already benefit from illegal vendor searches, and they need to worry more about the overall health of UO and the lack of players.
I'm very excited by the real possibility that this (and prior) thread(s) will succeed in the in-game addition of a vendor search for all ! I truly believe that this will do more than anything else to bring in and keep NEW players playing our beloved UO... That in itself will be a GREAT REWARD for all of us....
Just sayin....
Just sayin....
It dawned on my yesterday that we already have a AH to some extent. Given that the uber rich players should all have accounts in the 168 month range it is very possible that there are alot more items that have been transfered to ATL using it as the current UO AH. I'm not sure if this is good or bad but I suspect the reality of the case. Shame though that gettting the items back off the shard isn't as easy for younger players.
Do it Dev's! And, i would Beta-Test my arse off 24/7 if you need me! DO IT! NOW! Drop everything else!
Me too ^^^^, absolutely!Do it Dev's! And, i would Beta-Test my arse off 24/7 if you need me!
