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Bringing back Order / Chaos war and removing Factions

What do you think about having Order / Chaos wars back in action, and on all facets


  • Total voters
    62

Lord Frodo

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Take non-con PvP out of UO. Problem solved. Anybody can go anywhere they want.

Only 2 things would override this.
Guild Wars
Order/Chaos

Both sides get what they want. Blues can now go to Fel and Reds can now come to Tram.
 

Surgeries

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Honestly your "idea" of going to Fel and not being able to be attacked is equal to Reds going to Tram isn't even on the same level, but I guess I will play our game.

You can go to Fel and not be attacked if all reds can go to Tram and attack players out of guard zone. How is that for a "Reciprocal Thingy"? You can go and do all the champ spawns in Fel you want and all the "Evil nasty red PK guilds" will just camp the abyss and make sure no one can get imbuing ingredients so we can control the price of those.
LOL...off base much?

We are talking about C/O access, and specifically allowing Reds to come into Tram and all other facets under that auspice (i.e. Chaos/Order) No one said free reign turn all of every facet to Fel rules, or any Blue going anywhere in Fel an not being able to be attacked.
We are talking about Orange players and the chance to have Chaos/Order, in effect, be a "PvP Toggle".

A poster had indicated they wanted Reds to go to Tram under this new set up of Chaos/Order...I indicated that would be fine with me as long as I can go to Fel and choose to be attacked or not, the same way a Red would only be able to be attacked, most likely, by an Orange player in Tram, and not any player or players that wanted to try to kill them.

That is the crux of the issue. Trying to confuse it by implying a perceived "Fear" of PKs on my part is distracting, at best. I don't "Fear" PKs anymore than you "Fear" riding pink ponies.

We all have things in life we like and don't like. It doesn't mean we "Fear" them, necessarily, now, does it? We can simply "Not Like Them", hopefully, without "Fear" of reprisal from people that try to use intimidation to get their way and maybe even try to verbally bully someone into submission. That's never worked so well on me, as you may have well noticed.

So, again, as clearly as I am able:

  • If C/O is put in with no changes to whether Reds can visit Trammel rule sets, then I think it will greatly bolster PvP all around. I do not believe any Blue player should be able to go to Fel without the chance of non-con PvP in this scenario.
  • If C/O is put in and Reds are allowed to then visit all Trammel facets, and if the Reds can only be attacked by other C/O people (Orange Players), then Blues need to be able to visit Fel, and if they are not in C/O, they should not be able to be attacked.
  • If C/O is put in and Reds are allowed full access to all facets and can freely attack other players while Blues can go to Fel and not be attacked, I would just stop playing UO.
There is likely one or two scenarios I neglected to put in, but you get the idea...it's all about reciprocity and fairness. I have no problem with any of these but the last one...I would not care for that one at all...I hope that helps clarify my position.
 

Viper09

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
If reds are allowed to enter Tram then the easiest thing to do is to simply give them the same restrictions as everyone else. This is the easiest thing to implement and the most fair, we don't want tram players scared that they may accidentally flag on a red and thus run the risk of being killed and there are so many ways this can occur from area spells, to special movies, to potions. If we want them freely attack-able by anyone then I guarantee you're going to come back here and complain that reds are griefing people into attacking them.
 
Last edited:

Driven Insane

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Please go re-read all of my posts, Driven. Maybe twice.
Oh yeah let me run off and read even more of your garbage.. can I please. :rolleyes:

The point you and the rest of the anti red zealots don't get is that the entire red/blue system is so outdated it shouldn't even exist anymore.

If you've read any of my other posts you would know that IMO being red these days has nothing to do with murdering innocent little babies (like you and Frodo) but from being loyal to your friends and guildmates by defending them no matter the color of the person attacking. Out of the people I see in Fel, 95% of them are PvPers and most importantly 100% of the people who do enter Fel do so knowing full well the ruleset of Fel. So there is no nonconsentual PvP anymore, so there should be no punishment for PvPing.

There should be no punishment for PvPing and given the way the system is set up it's almost inevitable that anyone who engages in PvP on a regular basis and is a loyal member of their guild/alliance will inevitably go red.
 

Surgeries

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Oh yeah let me run off and read even more of your garbage.. can I please. :rolleyes:

The point you and the rest of the anti red zealots don't get is that the entire red/blue system is so outdated it shouldn't even exist anymore.

If you've read any of my other posts you would know that IMO being red these days has nothing to do with murdering innocent little babies (like you and Frodo) but from being loyal to your friends and guildmates by defending them no matter the color of the person attacking. Out of the people I see in Fel, 95% of them are PvPers and most importantly 100% of the people who do enter Fel do so knowing full well the ruleset of Fel. So there is no nonconsentual PvP anymore, so there should be no punishment for PvPing.

There should be no punishment for PvPing and given the way the system is set up it's almost inevitable that anyone who engages in PvP on a regular basis and is a loyal member of their guild/alliance will inevitably go red.
Last reply.

I never said Reds murder babies. Not sure how you think that trolling in this manner is helpful, but it isn't, at all.

I know why folks go Red in Fel. It has been this way a LONG time. If you attack a Blue and kill them, they can give a murder count. Get too many murder counts and stay in Fel to play that character until they turn blue again by being "forgiven" for a count per time spent red. Been that way a LONG time. It was and is a way to help deter less than social behavior by individuals.

No doubt a person can go Red killing a jerk or five...but the "Loyal Guildie" flag you wave is quite transparent. Anyone who is Red to like...1600 counts Red...isn't just being a loyal guildie. They are attacking and killing LOTS of blues. That is apparent. Doesn't make them evil, or a baby killer, but it DOES make that character Red, prohibiting free travel between shards for that character. Been that way a LONG time now.

You say the rule is outdated and shouldn't apply, but then, your view could be ever so slightly skewed and biased. In fact, safe to say, you would be considered anything but impartial on the subject.

The fact of the matter is, we all know the current rules, and we are discussing a possible change to the rules. Compromise is a crucial element in finding common ground. I hear some people saying they want a Red to be able to come to Tram under th C/O system, which I do not disagree with.

As long as both sides give and take I would be happy with it. Reds get to come to Tram and only get attacked by other C/O people, and Blues can go to Fel and only attack and be attacked by other Orange folks, under this proposed C/O system (my own idea based on the original request that Reds be able to come to Tram).

No "Cry Baby" crap...just logic. Nice simple, unemotional logic. I am not going to try and convince you, Driven. I am simply stating my case, and my own opinions on the matter. You calling other people cry babies is just so...well...trash talking maybe?

Anyway...all done here. Have a great day.
 

Driven Insane

Sage
Stratics Veteran
I know why folks go Red in Fel.
No you don't. You don't actively PvP so you have no idea what happens in Fel and why people go red.

Again, for the slow witted, there are no innocents in Fel. Everyone that goes there has agreed to the rules of that land and therefore reds should not be penalized for playing by the rules of the land.
 

Lythos-

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
@ Tina, Some EXCELLENT questions for sure. I especially liked the one about existing faction horses. What i would like to see are these horses made available in same hues and even new hues for everyone along with keeping everyone able to rez them.

Red allowed in tram? I've been pvping since i started playing in '99, had multiple reds on every account ive ever had combined counts prolly toward 15k-20k, and i just don't think i'm for this. The whole idea of a red is to be feared and be an outlaw. Allowing that into a setting where you can't do anything would be a disgrace to me. Plus you would have people that "accidently" went red going into tram to burn counts freely.

Scrolls arent that high, neither are frags. Better yet, have a "reprieve" token available for sale.
 
J

Joey Porter

Guest
To me something that will enhance and affect 99% of gameplay should not be stifled by the fact that it may affect EM events which rarely occur and when they do alot of people cannot even make it to them.
 

Orgional Farimir

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
No doubt a person can go Red killing a jerk or five...but the "Loyal Guildie" flag you wave is quite transparent. Anyone who is Red to like...1600 counts Red...isn't just being a loyal guildie. They are attacking and killing LOTS of blues. That is apparent. Doesn't make them evil, or a baby killer, but it DOES make that character Red, prohibiting free travel between shards for that character. Been that way a LONG time now.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Back in the not to distant past (anyone know what song that is from?) I took a blue mage to a harry. I figured I would help kill the harry to speed it up. Well we got raided and at the end of the 2 hour harry he had over 50 counts. Exspecially in grinder fights where if someone walks into your para field, or your a winder, or cast any AOE's it isn't that hard to pick up tons of counts.

And sadly since this was so recent it isn't even considered a "Big" harry fight. Back in the "Good 'Ole Days" it was nothing to pick up a couple hundred counts at a Harry or Oaks fight.
 

cazador

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Waste of time..nobody but pvpers will even use this system and real pvp is long gone..focus on harpsichords and tram dungeons that's 80-90% of your revenue...I'm only for this of its mandatory ..and if that's the case alt+f4 trammel all together..but as I previously stated that's 80-90% of UO players..so on that note..give me more useless pixel trash to sell to them to put in their E-Museums and stop breaking pvp even more than you already have...
 

PlayerSkillFTW

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Last reply.
It was and is a way to help deter less than social behavior by individuals.
Thing is though, PvP is no longer considered an "anti-social behavior" in MMOs. It's considered sport. Hell, the biggest PvM MMORPG there is, World of Warcraft, hosts huge televised tournaments for top Arena PvPers, and it's considered an e-sport. Hell, some of the PvPers even get sponsors and get paid RL money to PvP.
Punishing players because they enjoy the thrill and risk of going up against the deadliest, most craftiest opponents ever; other players, is ridiculous.
 

Kiss Of Death

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Reds should be able to go to trammel to fight....other factioners or order players....if ppl dont' want to fight in trammel they simply should not join ORDER..... that's simple.

P.s. Factions should remain and they should be able to join chaos or order....
 

Dakkon Blackblade

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I would rather factions just be pulled out altogether, O/C and factions don't mix well together, if I recall correctly O/C was originally scrapped because factions was to replace it. And I hope they do not implement faction elements into O/C just leave it the way it was, it worked just fine, we didn't have sigils or flags back in the day but you knew which towns were Order and which were Chaos if you were in the community. On Atlantic for example everyone knew Delucia belonged to Visolara or =V= and Moonglow belonged to Vista Mistas crew (forgot the guild name) and GmX.

In any event it should be interesting to see where the devs take the idea, and I'm sure they will end up changing it regardless of what some old timer thinks.
 

Orgional Farimir

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Reds should be able to go to trammel to fight....other factioners or order players....if ppl dont' want to fight in trammel they simply should not join ORDER..... that's simple.

P.s. Factions should remain and they should be able to join chaos or order....
Exactly.... I could care less if reds can go into Tram to PvM. Most people who have multiple reds don't even like PvM. But I don't think the Tram players understand how long 4 mins can be in PvP.

If a blue member of an O/C guild is being attacked in Luna, while I am on my red scouting spawns looking for a fight, by the time I run out of T2A or a dungeon, recall to my house, wait 2 mins to time out because I hit a mongbat as I am running into my house, login my blue PvP char (if I am lucky enough to have one), add the pieces to the suit I took off of my other character, soul stone on and off skills, and recall to luna the fight could be LONG over and the 3 people that attacked my one guild mate have long ran off and went back to hiding until they find another guild member all alone.

Wash, rinse, repeat. It will get old in less than 1 week and then O/C will be as broken, if not worse, than factions.
 

Phangs_of_Phage

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
This blows my mind. Why not just make a new character. Why do you have to have a full pardon?
Because players like me and Cetric already have 7 chars that are fully developed and fully scrolled out. When factions was introduced they offered a 1 time pardon to any reds wanting to join. Its only fitting that it is offered if O/C is introduced.
Also if O/C is allowed to fight on all rulesets they could keep the current faction arties and remove the silver and the timer from them because they would not need to worry about people getting them then hiding in Tram.
Personally I would roam all good PvM spots looking for people doing this just to kill them.
 

Phangs_of_Phage

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
I have been trying to think of things that the EMs on Siege have done to try to make events there run as smoothly as possible. Some of the stuff I've noticed is they made the counselor's hall a no-spell zone and they put up wandering healers nearby, usually in both the red and blue varieties.

If the dev team is serious about bringing back Order and Chaos, maybe they can start tossing out some information now about how they see it working. Here are some of the questions I have now about that system, as it's something that went out of existence just about the time I was starting to play UO:

  • Can you join the Order or Chaos side as an individual character and still maintain membership in a guild that is not affiliated with either side? Or is it the case that if the guild leader joins a side, then all characters in the guild also join that side automatically and quitting a side means you first have to quit your guild and then quit the side (i.e., more or less the same process as applies today for factions)?
  • If Order/Chaos membership is enforced at a guild level, how does it affect membership in alliances? In other words and as an example, can an Order guild continue to be allied with a guild that belongs to neither side or that belongs to the Chaos side?
  • Also, if Order/Chaos membership applies at a guild level, will invitations made to join Order or Chaos guilds include any additional warning language to alert potential recruits that the guild belongs to Order or Chaos?
  • Will "young" characters be able to join Order or Chaos guilds? (Not sure if they can even join regular guilds! Have to research that.)
  • As with factions, will all your characters on an account on the same shard have to join the same side or stay neutral, or can you have characters on the same account on different sides in Order/Chaos on the same shard?
  • Where do you join a side?
  • Are there strongholds or bases, or just a sign-up/quit stone?
  • Is quitting a side effective immediately, or does it take a couple of days (the factions quit process today takes 3 days)?
  • While you're in Order or Chaos, can characters who are not on your side heal or rez you or your pet?
  • Can you steal from a character on the opposing side while outside of Felucca?
  • Is there anything like the faction 20-minute skill loss period after your character dies to an enemy character?
  • Are all kills made by opposing sides considered "legal" and not reportable as murders?
  • Does the Order/Chaos system have ranks, shard-wide leaders for each side, voting periods, etc.?
  • Is there a leaderboard of any sort to keep track of which side, guilds, and/or characters have made the most kills?
  • Will joining a side grant you any sort of special abilities or access to special items?
  • Are there plans for the designers/developers and the EMs to create special events built specifically to take advantage of the Order/Chaos system? If so, what's the best way for players who might have ideas about fun organized Order/Chaos activities to submit them?
  • Will the ability to war guilds continue to be available once the Order/Chaos system is revived?
  • What will happen to the faction strongholds, sigil posts and town stones?
  • Will there be any kind of replacement for faction vendors, especially of the reagent and bottle type?
  • Will the team make sure that NPC pricing in faction towns is not left at an artificially high or low level after the faction system is disabled?
  • What will happen to existing faction war horses? Will there be any point in trying to keep them if you won't be able to actually ride them anymore or be able to rez them with bandages without vet skill?
  • Will faction silver continue to have a use? What about faction trap deeds, faction trap removal kits, faction robes, faction-hued clothing and weapons, faction artifacts, faction consumables? Will these get stuck in containers and backpacks or on paperdolls and mannequins after the faction system is turned off?
Those are the questions I can think of now off the top of my head that I'd love to see answered soon, even in tentative form. I'm rather concerned about making sure that if Order/Chaos membership can be enacted by guild leaders for entire guilds and will affect alliance membership, that people get ample warning so they can start figuring out how to reorganize guilds and alliances.


I think it might also help out the EMs if they can start encouraging players to be thinking about activities/events that would be fun to do under the Order/Chaos system. Maybe as things develop for this, Petra would consider putting up a special forum for generating ideas so people are more forthcoming with ideas, especially for events.
It should work just like a guild war on a massive scale.
I take it you dont really understand guild alliance/war flagging system due to many of your questions.
 

Phangs_of_Phage

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
It wasnt meant as condesending. Hence it should work just like a massive guild war.
all negative acts will be perfectly legal.
It SHOULD flag O/C members so they cannot be healed by non O/C members in any facet that O/C can fight on.
Previous O/C didnt have a leaderboard, but they will most likely keep the faction score system
O/C was enforced at the guild level and should follow the same "alliance" rules as factions do
O/C did not have a statloss type penalty.
The original O/C had order and chaos shields as the special item. I would think they would keep the current faction arties and just remove the cost IF AND ONLY IF O/C are allowed to fight on all facets.
You joined order at Castle british and chaos at blackthorns castle.
Personally I think they should convert faction horses to silver steeds for order and the rideable black horses for chaos (keep same stats for warhorses)
Previously you could be order on one char and chaos on another on the same shard, this will most likely be changed.
O/C is really just a massive guild war. If you join Order, you are at a war status will all chaos guilds so you "should" be able to fight on any facet.

Thats what my magic 8 ball says about things, hope that helped.
 

jrede23

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Im sorry i guess im one of the few who absolutely despises mesanna and her whole production team. I do not understand how any of you pvper's could be on board with this. All they are doing is spitting in our face and trying to get rid of us to make way for a trammy only game. Do you even know how many ppl we lost due to the intial F##K up with the points and faction gear. I know of 13 that have quit between may and july of this year. If any of you are true pvpers and play everyshard (or used to till they F&&ked IT up) you know damn well there are not that many of us. I can go to six different shards and play against almost all the same ppl, so for me to know of 13 of them quitting thats ALOT bc of one crappy patch. There are not enough pvpers to keep things going as it is, most real ones not guard hugging blues love factions. Why? because the fights have an ending and a clear victor, the other crew all goes stat and you win (taking out stat jewels and the off chance everyone wins while fighting in stat.) Most the time thats how fights are decided, u fight against a bunch of blues or if its all non faction fights, the victor is the one with the largest zerg that can mount an offensive and have a defensive rez point in the back. Reminds me of CREW on GL a few years back but they are much smaller now. I loved O/C back in the day it was a lot of fun, and im not against it, I'm against taking out factions! As it is I used to play 12 shards now I play 2. Unlike trammies we dont farm quests, and peerless, and doom and get loot and arties to suit are guys up. We need that extra help with the faction gear. I have 10 shards I can't play on for lack of funds and ability to make a suit or farm enough silver too suit the person up. I just built three suits without faction armor above level two. Just finished two days ago and then I read this horses**T. Just wasted countless barbed kits, spined kits, and resources to build a suit that will be unusable in a few months.

Although no one is listening I've got an idea for you devs and messanna and whoever else is ruining the game that was brilliantly created in 97. STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING PERIOD! Stop only caring about your tram player base cuz guess what, ur not getting many more trammies to play. The ones that don't play aren't going to, they play WOW, or Diablo III. The trammies that do play arent going anywhere so you don't have to worry about them. This game has nothing to offer in tram that WOW or DIAblo or any other game out there cant compare to or substantially offer more! This game has one thing that no other game has, and that is its freedom and tactical advantages of pvp. NO ONE WANTS A 40 ON 40 BATTLE GROUND, IF WE DID WE WOULD GO PLAY WOW!!
This game is different in the fact that you dont have to choose one template you can mix and match anything you want to kill someone. You dont have to have approval from another party to attack them, you just do. You can run and trap, or stand and duel, or drop through a sparkle and choke it out. This game was built on pvp, it was built on a world that had no rules, and its time you guys start taking into account what we want not just what the trammies want. However, you wont, cuz you dont want us here anymore. You want the trammies to stop crying that they cant go to fel without getting killed, U basically want this to be a diablo game with far ****tier graphics. THat is my rant I will add a few suggestions that will def never be read but im used to that.

Sug 1- most importantly dont try to be like WOW or any other game, this game is far better bc of its gameplay and freedom to choose your own path, dont sell out thinking you'll keep ppl interested by following the trends of other MMORPG's

Sug 2- IT is time you listened to us, we are always called hackers, and exploiters by the trammys. Its time you stopped allowing them to exploit guard zone! ITs time to abolish guardzones in fel completely not abolish factions. However if you do that, you need to also stop them from exploiting houses as well. If you get flagged in a house you can sit there and do nothing, or recall out or whatever you want. But if you flag the person back you should be instantly ejected from said house and not allowed to fight from within it. If you flag someone from a house you should automatically be ejected no if ands or buts about it.

Sug 3- Drop a portal in the middle of FEl that connects to every single shard out there. Then we wouldnt have to make 15 diff suits with 500 million depending on how many ornys, tangles, slithers, crimmys, crys you need. You could have a few on one shard and just jump from shard to shard to fight everywhere. Dont merge the shards because then everyone would flip about losing their houses.

Sug 4- FINal suggestion, I am against pets in all shapes and forms. it is called player verse player, not player vs player and his pet (s). Although i Know that will never be abolished, atleast give us a slayer weapon and spellbook for dread mares. Last night I had an archer with a dread on me and in the time it took me to cast an explosion i went from 149 hp's to 51hps, then all that was left was to heal and be defensive without offense thats ridiculous. Also you could make it harder for tamers to play since its the easiest temp to play, the most powerful, and all they have to do is hit three keys to kill someone. How about if you have taming and lore you can't have resist or ninjitsu. I'd be good with that :).. Ok I do apologize for posting such a long message but someone had to say it.
 

Phangs_of_Phage

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Thank you!! It did help!

There were a couple of things you didn't touch on about O/C that I'm still wondering about, though. Do you remember what the rules were for quitting, i.e., did it happen immediately whether you quit individually outside a guild or if the guild leader dropped the whole guild out? And what were the rules for stealing or being stolen from while in Trammel if you were in Order or Chaos? And was there some kind of a leader for each side on each shard? I remember hearing fuzzy things that made me think there was something like that, but I never figured out if those leaders were elected or were the EMs acting in that role or were players put in that role by the EMs.

And some other questions that I just thought of: Was there any kind of chat system or messaging system for O/C, i.e., anything that helped you join forces or plan things? Or was it just a lot of unorganized/unplanned/spontaneous brawling, fights, raids? And if your whole guild joined, were there any things about O/C that gave crafters any special abilities even remotely similar to the limited crafting done in factions (trap deeds, trap removal kits, temporarily faction hued clothing and generic/useless weapons)? Did people keep their crafters in O/C guilds or mostly drop them out unless they had decent fighting or stealthing skills? Also, I'm assuming there were no "safe" zones or times where/when you couldn't be attacked, right? Also, were there any restrictions on having pets traded to your Order or Chaos character?

Thanks!

Edited to add: Scanning through this again, the word "traps" caught my eye. Could you make/use floor traps or trapped containers to injure your enemy while in Trammel? I guess in Fel, too, could you make/use floor traps there? There are those traps you can get now in the Underworld you can use in Trammel now although I don't think anyone does because they are kinda hokey. Wonder if those would find a real use with O/C. I'd really hate to see all my non-Siege faction trap removers pretty much out of a job, considering what a pain it is to train Remove Trap.
Crafters got no benefits.
Joining/leaving were instant I think (it has been many many years)
Remember back when O/C was active it was not uncommon to have 5+ hardcore PvP guild on each shard fielding 50+ people during primetime, so things were orginized more on a guild level than an O/C level.
If you order you should be able to steal from chaos anywhere where they allow negative actions (combat) between the 2 sides.
There was no formal leader
There was no chat system.
Most people kept crafters out of O/C because they was no reason to have them in (no Order tags on craftables)
There were no equivelant to faction traps at the time.
No safezones at all.
Could not have pets traded to you from non O/C members
 

Viper09

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
It's kind of funny when you think about it. When people discussed faction pvp being allowed in tram so many were against it. But when the topic is O/C fighting in tram it seems barely anyone is against it (excluding the debate over whehter or not pks can enter tram).
 

Phangs_of_Phage

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Im sorry i guess im one of the few who absolutely despises mesanna and her whole production team. I do not understand how any of you pvper's could be on board with this. All they are doing is spitting in our face and trying to get rid of us to make way for a trammy only game. Do you even know how many ppl we lost due to the intial F##K up with the points and faction gear. I know of 13 that have quit between may and july of this year. If any of you are true pvpers and play everyshard (or used to till they F&&ked IT up) you know damn well there are not that many of us. I can go to six different shards and play against almost all the same ppl, so for me to know of 13 of them quitting thats ALOT bc of one crappy patch. There are not enough pvpers to keep things going as it is, most real ones not guard hugging blues love factions. Why? because the fights have an ending and a clear victor, the other crew all goes stat and you win (taking out stat jewels and the off chance everyone wins while fighting in stat.) Most the time thats how fights are decided, u fight against a bunch of blues or if its all non faction fights, the victor is the one with the largest zerg that can mount an offensive and have a defensive rez point in the back. Reminds me of CREW on GL a few years back but they are much smaller now. I loved O/C back in the day it was a lot of fun, and im not against it, I'm against taking out factions! As it is I used to play 12 shards now I play 2. Unlike trammies we dont farm quests, and peerless, and doom and get loot and arties to suit are guys up. We need that extra help with the faction gear. I have 10 shards I can't play on for lack of funds and ability to make a suit or farm enough silver too suit the person up. I just built three suits without faction armor above level two. Just finished two days ago and then I read this horses**T. Just wasted countless barbed kits, spined kits, and resources to build a suit that will be unusable in a few months.

Although no one is listening I've got an idea for you devs and messanna and whoever else is ruining the game that was brilliantly created in 97. STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING PERIOD! Stop only caring about your tram player base cuz guess what, ur not getting many more trammies to play. The ones that don't play aren't going to, they play WOW, or Diablo III. The trammies that do play arent going anywhere so you don't have to worry about them. This game has nothing to offer in tram that WOW or DIAblo or any other game out there cant compare to or substantially offer more! This game has one thing that no other game has, and that is its freedom and tactical advantages of pvp. NO ONE WANTS A 40 ON 40 BATTLE GROUND, IF WE DID WE WOULD GO PLAY WOW!!
This game is different in the fact that you dont have to choose one template you can mix and match anything you want to kill someone. You dont have to have approval from another party to attack them, you just do. You can run and trap, or stand and duel, or drop through a sparkle and choke it out. This game was built on pvp, it was built on a world that had no rules, and its time you guys start taking into account what we want not just what the trammies want. However, you wont, cuz you dont want us here anymore. You want the trammies to stop crying that they cant go to fel without getting killed, U basically want this to be a diablo game with far ****tier graphics. THat is my rant I will add a few suggestions that will def never be read but im used to that.

Sug 1- most importantly dont try to be like WOW or any other game, this game is far better bc of its gameplay and freedom to choose your own path, dont sell out thinking you'll keep ppl interested by following the trends of other MMORPG's

Sug 2- IT is time you listened to us, we are always called hackers, and exploiters by the trammys. Its time you stopped allowing them to exploit guard zone! ITs time to abolish guardzones in fel completely not abolish factions. However if you do that, you need to also stop them from exploiting houses as well. If you get flagged in a house you can sit there and do nothing, or recall out or whatever you want. But if you flag the person back you should be instantly ejected from said house and not allowed to fight from within it. If you flag someone from a house you should automatically be ejected no if ands or buts about it.

Sug 3- Drop a portal in the middle of FEl that connects to every single shard out there. Then we wouldnt have to make 15 diff suits with 500 million depending on how many ornys, tangles, slithers, crimmys, crys you need. You could have a few on one shard and just jump from shard to shard to fight everywhere. Dont merge the shards because then everyone would flip about losing their houses.

Sug 4- FINal suggestion, I am against pets in all shapes and forms. it is called player verse player, not player vs player and his pet (s). Although i Know that will never be abolished, atleast give us a slayer weapon and spellbook for dread mares. Last night I had an archer with a dread on me and in the time it took me to cast an explosion i went from 149 hp's to 51hps, then all that was left was to heal and be defensive without offense thats ridiculous. Also you could make it harder for tamers to play since its the easiest temp to play, the most powerful, and all they have to do is hit three keys to kill someone. How about if you have taming and lore you can't have resist or ninjitsu. I'd be good with that :).. Ok I do apologize for posting such a long message but someone had to say it.
I agree with alot of your points but I do think your being overly dramatic. I would like to know what the "battleground" shard will be about. Hopefully its not just siege with insurance, I would love for it to be a T2A era shard but thats my dreaming. We left factions when they messed the ranks up initially so my playable shards went from 6 to 2, but you DO NOT NEED STATLOSS to determine a victor. We fight many vs a few 99% of the time so dont talk about the zerg needed.
Give dreads a slayer or reduce dmg output to that of a nightmare just with higher surviveability.

Besides that, I agree with everything you said.
 

Phangs_of_Phage

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
It's kind of funny when you think about it. When people discussed faction pvp being allowed in tram so many were against it. But when the topic is O/C fighting in tram it seems barely anyone is against it (excluding the debate over whehter or not pks can enter tram).
The people against it were the ones abusing the system for the items.
 

Orgional Farimir

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
It's kind of funny when you think about it. When people discussed faction pvp being allowed in tram so many were against it. But when the topic is O/C fighting in tram it seems barely anyone is against it (excluding the debate over whehter or not pks can enter tram).
That is because in O/C there is no mace & shield glasses, crimmy, and other arties on roids so it doesn't make since to have a sampire, PvM character, or anyone not interested in PvP in O/C.
 

Viper09

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I figured as much. Seems their argument against PvP in Tram as being their main concern was a bunch of nonsense after all :p
 

Phangs_of_Phage

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
I played siege back pre aos and it was great, however IMO, item based pvp cannot work with a non item based loot system like sieges. I dont mind loosing things int he Pre AOS sense, but to lose a suit on siege can be gamebreaking for weeks. (maybe not so bad post imbuing)
 

jrede23

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I agree with alot of your points but I do think your being overly dramatic. I would like to know what the "battleground" shard will be about. Hopefully its not just siege with insurance, I would love for it to be a T2A era shard but thats my dreaming. We left factions when they messed the ranks up initially so my playable shards went from 6 to 2, but you DO NOT NEED STATLOSS to determine a victor. We fight many vs a few 99% of the time so dont talk about the zerg needed.
Give dreads a slayer or reduce dmg output to that of a nightmare just with higher surviveability.

Besides that, I agree with everything you said.
Well I do agree i went off on a tangent and may have been quite dramatic but honestly look at what theyve done. Every single thing theyve done for pvp has made it go from bad to worse. Every pvp change they make they take into account how the trammies will feel about it. When is the last time they did anything for pvp that worked out? they completely ruined factions. No one can wear the gear, and that was a sell point for most ppl to join. They lowered points but didnt just wipe them completely clean, so you have chars with billions of points on shards that never will be logged into, messing up the ranking system. Since the first world existed (Fel), theyve had tram, malas, ishs, tokuno, ter mur. Never have they added another pvp world. They came out with the abyss and gave us two new champ spawns. yayy yayyyy. But who were those champ spawns for exactly? both of them have exits directly into tram ruleset where a red cant chase. Both of them have ankhs to rez blues. So honestly who do you think they made them for, us reds or the trammys to be able to sneak off spawns and if raided run to tram ruleset. When is the last time they had an event in fel where pvpers could fight over the possible event reward? We are a dieing breed and it seems they just want us to die off and be gone. As for your comment I dont agree with the non stat loss. FIrst of all its fun and hilarious to tell someone to sit out 20 mins when u just killed them :). Second its all about circumstances. The other night 6 of us raided 15 blues at a harry and killed them on 6 seperate occasions till they stopped coming back. We won but barely and it took hoursssss. If They were better and had instant rez spots they woulda beat us no problem cuz we couldnt get one in stat and then move on to dropping the next and the next. Statloss is why I pvp, I run up to a blue and fight I dont even get excited, wow nothing happens cept loss of insurance if I die. I run up to an OJ and im like shiiit better be on my A game dont wanna be sitting out 20 or be laughed at for bein put in stat. Thats fun to me, fighting blues is boring.
 
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