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[UO Herald] Healer Quest Results

popps

Always Present
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As far as I can see, (and as Angel of Sonoma already explained yet I missed that post) and according to the number of total participants per shard:
  • 0 - 49 : 1 Sleeves
  • 50 - 99 : 2 Sleeves
  • 100 - 149 : 3 Sleeves
  • 150 - 199 : 4 Sleeves
  • 200 - 249 : 5 Sleeves
  • 250 - 299 : 6 Sleeves
  • 300 - 349 : 7 Sleeves
  • 350+ : 21 Sleeves (??)
So while we have 921 and 1423 cures in Europa, since the number of total participants is 48 (less than 50), only one of them gets the cure. If 2 more players would have participated, Odin (921) would get the sleeves too.

I do not get it though........ A player who participates to the Event is then responsible AND penalized because OTHER players, beyond his/her control did not participate to the Event ?

It really was designed this way ? I am astonished..........
 
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popps

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So, if the shard is less populated, or less players participated in the event, no matter how many cures two players turn in, only one of them gets the sleeves :). And the shard which has the most participation (Yamato) gets the rest of the sleeves. It is not how many cures you turned in, you can go wild and turn in thousands of them, it is how many players participated on your shard.

If that is the case, then why on earth it was not advertised right and left that the more players participated the better it would have been for all participants ? Why this important information was not widespread and comunicated all over ?

I am absolutely confused. I really hope that future Events will learn from this one a good deal.
 

Winker

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If that is the case, then why on earth it was not advertised right and left that the more players participated the better it would have been for all participants ? Why this important information was not widespread and comunicated all over ?

I am absolutely confused. I really hope that future Events will learn from this one a good deal.
They never do learn, we seam doomed to repeat the same mistakes every few years. Insanity is... doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
 

popps

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All that is known about that shard is one person turned in 2800+ items while nothing is known about the other 20 people/chars.

If it was possible that the event was scripted and for a month the bot did the same action yet no negative result was had from the GM's then I say the cat is clearly out of the bag. Lets pretend that a new quest was put into the game, with new actions and nearly new everything but still it's scripted to all heck yet nothing is done....clearly the Dev team has no intrest in stopping this action as this would be easier than anything else to catch.

Sadly if the above is true it's time to come to the same conclusion that everyone else has come to 7+ years ago, script what you want and when you want to...nothing bad will come of it.

Well, if this is the choice then, I think, the policy should be changed and make it known with an official announcement to all players that scripting is allowed or tolerated in Ultima Online. What I do not understand and disagree with is having a Policy that forbids scripting but then not much happens to rid the game for good from scripting.

It is irrelevant the reason why scripting is not rid from the game, be it technical difficulties, desire not to ban accounts, whatever. But ain't the fact that scripting is not eradicated from the game an actual change of Policy ? Then why not allow all players to play on the same level by changing the Policy and make it known that scripting is ok in Ultima Online ?

This is what really annoys me.
 
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Winker

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Well, if this is the choice then, I think, the policy should be changed and make it known with an official announcement to all players that scripting is allowed or tolerated in Ultima Online. What I do not understand and disagree with is having a Policy that forbids scripting but then not much happens to rid the game for good from scripting.

It is irrelevant the reason why scripting is not rid from the game, be it technical difficulties, desire not to ban accounts, whatever. But ain't the fact that scripting is not eradicated from the game an actual change of Policy ? Then why not allow all players to play on the same level by changing the Policy and make it known that scripting is ok in Ultima Online ?

This is what really annoys me.
Popps, lets just pretended that the devs spend 6 months of development time in eradicating Scripting and stopping the current line-up of 3rd party software working with UO.

That’s 6 months we get no updates, no new content, no new anniversary/xmas/etc gifts. Everything stops just to halt scripting.

Within a space of 8 weeks the people who developed the scripting tools will have new software up and running and everyone who scripts will be back scripting again. These people who have coding knowledge enjoy the challenge of getting around the games security and they do it free of charge/in their own free time.

So ask your self this, is it worth 6 months of development time just to stop the scripts for 8 weeks? Do we do this cycle every year and lose 6 months of development time each year?

No matter what game you play on the internet there is always people with programming knowledge willing to try and circumnavigate the security of the game.

You have 2 choices, live with it and get on with your own thing, or leave and never play another internet based game again.
 
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popps

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So ask your self this, is it worth 6 months of development time just to stop the scripts for 8 weeks? Do we do this cycle every year and lose 6 months of development time each year?

Well, I thought I mentioned as an alternative to ridding the game from scripting (which would be what I would like the most to see for UO...), that if this was not possible, whatever the reasons, be them technical or anything else, then the official Policy about scripting should be changed, IMHO.

I do not see the point to have a Policy that forbids sscripting when then scripting is not rid from the game.
If it is not possible to get the game rid of scripting for whatever reason, then why not have all players be able to script in the game without worrying for their accounts and thus be able to play the game on an equal footing ?

If there is an official Policy, I think that it should be enforced (i.e. get the game rid of scripting). If this is not possible, regardless from the reasons, then the Policy I think should no longer be there and should be changed.
 

Winker

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Well, I thought I mentioned as an alternative to ridding the game from scripting (which would be what I would like the most to see for UO...), that if this was not possible, whatever the reasons, be them technical or anything else, then the official Policy about scripting should be changed, IMHO.

I do not see the point to have a Policy that forbids sscripting when then scripting is not rid from the game.
If it is not possible to get the game rid of scripting for whatever reason, then why not have all players be able to script in the game without worrying for their accounts and thus be able to play the game on an equal footing ?

If there is an official Policy, I think that it should be enforced (i.e. get the game rid of scripting). If this is not possible, regardless from the reasons, then the Policy I think should no longer be there and should be changed.


I think the official stance is: Scripting is ok as long as your at the keyboard. It only AFK scripting that will be punished.

Remember a script is the same as a Macro, and its ok to Macro in game as long as your not AFK.

Also keep in mind that as long as they keep making us grind something, someone will want to automate it. Its human nature, we have been doing it for many many years. If we have to repeat the same action time and time again we as humans will find a way to automate it.
 
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Adol

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I think the scripting issue is somewhat a distraction; it absolves the dev team (any team) from designing events that should be fun. Get that right and it doesn't matter too much if people script it... you can script Tetris for instance, but why would you want too? It defeats the point of the game.
We have one very fine example here, which mysteriously hasn't been used since... the Bane Vs Ophidian War. People were playing that right until the end because it was fun, and whilst there were definite rewards to work towards too, the main challenge was to beat the other side to the end. It was impossible to script, because it involved mass combat. You could even expand it with say the High Seas content for crafters; put ship cannons at various points around the fight and let those who can't fight fire away merrily. But anything which involves a puzzle risks being scripted; the nexus deed one, not so much because it involves a game board that changes size; Good design. The Cure, much easier, as it's a repeating text return where the entry requirements can also be the solution requirements. Bad design. Now years ago, people were scripting killing mobs in World of Warcraft, and here people are scripting recording vendor inventory across (currently) Luna, New Magincia, Umbra Road and, if you ask to be part of the programme I think, your own house... it's hard to be certain where the difficulty line in preventing cheating is. However, as mentioned, focus on Gameplay and not rewards and there's little reason to think people will bother. You can't as such beat the scripters, but you don't have to turn your game into their game either.

Yes
 

popps

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I think the official stance is: Scripting is ok as long as your at the keyboard. It only AFK scripting that will be punished.

Remember a script is the same as a Macro, and its ok to Macro in game as long as your not AFK.
I may well be wrong, and someone please correct me in case, but I seem to understand that even attended scripting is not allowed by the current Policy since it needs the use of third party utilities which are not allowed to be used. So, it is my understanding, attended scripting is currently not allowed just like unattended scripting.
 

Winker

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I may well be wrong, and someone please correct me in case, but I seem to understand that even attended scripting is not allowed by the current Policy since it needs the use of third party utilities which are not allowed to be used. So, it is my understanding, attended scripting is currently not allowed just like unattended scripting.
Popps they can tell if your using the 3rd party software, even the 3rd party software developers admit the Devs can see its being used. But the GM does not care if you are using the 3rd party software, they just want to know your not doing it AFK.

Now that may not be their public policy, but it sure looks as if thats their working policy
 

popps

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You can't as such beat the scripters, but you don't have to turn your game into their game either.

Well, perhaps there could be some compromise solutions that cuoild help address scripting. One possible solution, for example, could be introducing weekly CAPs to whatever a given activity in the game could produce. Tailor the CAP to whatever an average casual player can play UO (2/4 hours per week ?), and then scripting 24/7 would become pointless since past the CAP allowed it would yield nothing.
It is merely an idea, others with some more thinking might come up.

If we agree that scripting hurts the game and those players who do not script, then I simply do not understand why something which hurts the game and part of the player base is not eradicated from the game.
 

Winker

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Popps they can tell if your using the 3rd party software, even the 3rd party software developers admit the Devs can see its being used. But the GM does not care if you are using the 3rd party software, they just want to know your not doing it AFK.

Now that may not be their public policy, but it sure looks as if thats their working policy
Take for example the website that can search the vendor in Luna. Thats ran by a 3rd party scripting tool. Eveyone and their dog knows it is. But its still alowed to run and Bob still visits each vendor shop every day. So i guess its been given the ok from some place
 

Petra Fyde

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It's darned hard to design something that can't be scripted. They did their best I think with the cures. The mixing of them was complex - and stepping one back one didn't re-set the flask, I did that many times when I accidentally hid the tongs with my mount. Two of the items didn't stack, reducing the number of components you could fit in a backpack.
Recently several actions have been done through use of a context menu, which can't be put into a macro. I don't know if that affects scripts too, I've never used one.
 

popps

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Popps they can tell if your using the 3rd party software, even the 3rd party software developers admit the Devs can see its being used. But the GM does not care if you are using the 3rd party software, they just want to know your not doing it AFK.

Now that may not be their public policy, but it sure looks as if thats their working policy

That is what I am trying to say, if the actual Policy differs from the written Policy then I think the written Policy should be changed to reflect whatever is the actual Policy.

I just cannot understand why the written Policy says that something is not possible to do in the game but then players see it going on in the game without much done to stop it for good.

As I said, if scripting is not possible to be ridden from Ultima Online, whatever the reasons, then the written official Policy should be changed. What is important, as I see it, is that all of the players can play the game using a levelled field so as to be able to compete with each other and not play disadvantaged.

That said, I still would much more favour seeing Ultima Online free of any scripting possible. I think it would be a better game, IMHO.
 

Nimuaq

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I may well be wrong, and someone please correct me in case, but I seem to understand that even attended scripting is not allowed by the current Policy since it needs the use of third party utilities which are not allowed to be used. So, it is my understanding, attended scripting is currently not allowed just like unattended scripting.
There can not be an official stance on this subject since a policy is worthless if it is not enforced. Most players don't use them for moral reasons, "to compete on a level playing field as everyone else does and play in the true spirit of the game, with integrity". However, any developer saying that 3rd party programs are not allowed in Ultima Online will be laughable at this point since scripters are not caught unless they are AFK, but even in that case there needs to be a player around who can report them, wait for the GM and hope for the script to not to have a "GM Alert". Thus, the real "enforceable" policy is using 3rd party programs AFK is not allowed. Even the latest approved 3rd party program, UO Mapper, used the dynamic link library of those scripting programs before January 2012:

From: Coming Soon | Ultima Mapper

The new version will no longer utilize the "ScriptingProgram"UO DLL for client interaction, so this version should be safe to run without fear of being banned.
 
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Nimuaq

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I think Farsight has found the answer for the 21 sleeves of Yamato (from Ultima Online Forums ):

I'm impressed that someone, or a group of someones, could manipulate the system like they did.

Mathematically, it's highly unlikely, if not impossible, to get their results.

For every 50 participants on a shard, 1 tier 4 reward was given, which means Yamato should have received 8 sleeves in total. To do what they did means that (probably) 14 characters would have had to tie (coincidently, exactly 2 accounts worth). That means exactly the same number of points.

Note: Since it's mathematically impossible to have a 21 way tie (the winner had about 3k points, the shard total was 30k, 21*3k > 30k), then it's also possible that 20 characters tied for #2, 19 characters tied for #3, etc.

So I find it a shame that a mind who can take an unknown system and manipulate it for a maximum reward to be wasting that mind on an online game.

Or it's just the greatest coincidence in UO history.

Or it's a bug.
 
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J

Joey Porter

Guest
Once again the simple explanation for this is that EA is making money of the scripters and scripting sites.

Why would they stop them if it was a profit for EA?
 

Picus at the office

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If the decline in PVP on smaller shards is any indication of what might happen if scripting is really delt with I'd have to say for the good of the game just allow it.
 

MalagAste

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I don't think it can be eradicated, it would need a full team working full time to even keep track. The system for making cures was complex and, I believed, not scriptable. Yet I was assured that scripting was happening - although I never saw it.
Even if it was eradicated, there would still be a perception of scripting, because people assume it's happening whether it is or not. Both my husband and I have frequently been accused of the activity. Neither of us have ever been guilty of it.
If you don't think it was scripted you weren't on GL watching it be... Very naive... We all saw it on GL's was plain as day.

And wouldn't you know it this person got the sleeves... what a shock. *rolls eyes*

I would hope that in future the DEV's put the fun back in and remember that many of us are older ..... we work for a living. I'm not around in-game 24/7 to do events like this. Knowing how much time and energy it was going to take and knowing full well that someone was going to Bork it all for everyone else and turn in WAY more than a person should... I am glad I opted to make 3 total cures and NOT turn in a single one.

Now maybe I should have turned in 5 or 10 but by the time I got around to making my cures I'd already had enough.

I started gathering way back before it began.... when I read the spoiler... after about 2 hours of trying to farm the blight stuff from the Sewers under Brit I decided I was 100% finished. When they changed it mid-way in to make farming that WAY easy I felt the sting for those who worked it the original "hard to near impossible" way...

Had they made sugar available to buy from Vendors I'm totally sure that would have driven off about 20 players... that would have been the last straw so to speak... Thankfully the DEV's had the common sense not to do that.

However.... that said using things like Sugar and Vanilla and then giving folk a VERY limited window to plant and grow enough to really compete in something like this only served to SERIOUSLY infuriate a great many players to the point where they like me decided this event was 100% BS and they weren't going to have a snowballs chance in hell to even get squat...

Now once again I'll say that events like the Act II where you KNOW how many Graverobber items it's going to take to obtain the "goal" of what you want are FAR more satisfying than making it a competition where you feel 100% hopeless to compete.

Now going back and actually working the Graverobber thing again I am asking myself once again why??????? 10,000 points is 200 items... from monsters that have ZERO other loot.... so you get Robbers that are basically Briggands with 300X the HP doing as much damage back to you as you do to them.... ruining your armor and for what?????? 1 thing at a time..... now if you got all the items you wanted say you want Meer...... that is at the very least killing 300 Graverobbers... but you don't get just Meer items...... so we are talking upwards of 600 graverobbers... gets FAR more daunting and more and more frustrating and finally..... when you have farmed and farmed till your fingers are sore and you find you have spent 3 to 4 solid days farming and farming the same thing over and over and over again without really getting anything But 1 little item at a time..... there is NO other stuff on the Graverobbers worth looting or looking at..... you ask yourself, WHY???? Why am I doing this? Do I REALLY want a full set of those statues????? Do I really care????? And the answer is NO not so much.

Wouldn't I rather be doing something fun?????? Something that has loot worth looking at? Heck yes I would... Eventually the boredom wins out and you quit killing the graverobbers..... now sitting at 3700 points to the Juka I'm wondering do I really want to work this hard to get another 126 or more of the stupid artifacts that honestly I'd rather have for myself than turn in just to get that statue?????

So I thought Sifting Sand would be FANTASTIC! Now I have a chance to get all those cool items I wanted to NOT turn in.... but some DEV thought I shouldn't want the kegs, the scrolls or the books or armor. Who's Idea was it NOT to put those in! I mean most the stuff I want isn't obtainable.... a couple of the tapestries is nice and all ...... bones cool...... but honestly urns? They are boring... Why would they build up hope to get the really cool stuff and then dash it??? It's like Yeah they heard us and they are giving us a chance to get the cool stuff we have been turning in...... but wait.... NO they aren't. VERY disappointing.

And then wonder why the players are becoming increasingly frustrated and annoyed? I don't.

I try not to be negative but it's hard when I'm not seeing a whole lot to be positive about.

Wanted the Graphics update.... it's on hold.

Wanted the cool meer and juka stuff.... I only got part and not the parts I really wanted.

Want to be able to co-own all my characters to my house so I don't have to be a friend in my own home..... can't.

Would like to participate in the events and such but I don't have time to spend all day everyday grinding out stuff...

Have no idea why we are bothering to add the Arena's almost no one uses.

People ask for many things in here and on other forums that would help but one of the biggest things we ask for we never get..... COMMUNICATION.

What would be wrong with giving us a bit of communication??? Why can't we get a REAL offical Forum?????

They KNOW full well that EVERYONE misses MYUO.... but again we wait and wait and are getting no where.

The trouble with Stratics is that 90% of the player base will NOT come here. Most of the players don't read forums...

Half the people that do read and post on Stratics don't play UO anymore.

Trying to be upbeat about things is growing harder and harder everyday... When more and more people are quitting and frustrated with the current level of communication and in-game events that aren't a huge grind.

Sadly many of the good players have left UO and hardly ever log on anymore leaving the few of us that are left to deal with the ones who are around which are the bitter, greedy, dishonest ones who would rather scam you because they can and they can get away with it over and over and over again ..... making us more and more like them.... bitter, and unhappy.
 

Martyna Zmuir

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If there is an official policy against scripting, then it needs to be enforced. If there is an unofficially official policy to allow scripting as long as it isn't AFK, it needs to be made public. Letting the p(l)ayers argue it out amongst themselves is counterproductive.

The cure event would have been ridiculously easy to script, specifically the puzzles. You put in one of each reagent to start, then used the burner. If you got a zero, three, or four correct on the first attempt you couldn't fail the cure, except in cases of user error. If you got an instant cure you were lucky. If you got a one or a two, you emptied the flask and reset the table.

I'm confident that a script could be written for that in a few hours, and most assuredly was.
 

Chrille

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I did it on like 5 chars on cats for the sash, but after seeing the numbers i got lvl 2 for nothing i turned in like 1-3 cures on like 3-5 chars, i mixed em up so im not sure. I could have used 5 on one char but i guess i stopped at 2 for em all. So i have now like 5 +20 healing for really nothing, so im happy i miss maybe the sleeves but then i miss so much else so i dont really care anymore.
 

CovenantX

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This is precisely why the rewards for this quest should have been handed out exactly the same way the Ranger's Cloak of Augmentation and the Shadow Cloak of Rejuvenation(s) were handed out complete the quest once a day per character, it was at least a fair chance for everyone.
 

LordDrago

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I don't think it can be eradicated, it would need a full team working full time to even keep track. The system for making cures was complex and, I believed, not scriptable. Yet I was assured that scripting was happening - although I never saw it.
Even if it was eradicated, there would still be a perception of scripting, because people assume it's happening whether it is or not. Both my husband and I have frequently been accused of the activity. Neither of us have ever been guilty of it.
This is a result of unattended scripting never being addressed by the dev team from the beginning. Back when UO had the team members, and revenue to be able to impact unattended scripting, something could have (should have) been done. It wasn't, and now they are entrenched in the game, and our forces are, likely, not enough to defeat them.
 

LordDrago

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I do not get it though........ A player who participates to the Event is then responsible AND penalized because OTHER players, beyond his/her control did not participate to the Event ?

It really was designed this way ? I am astonished..........
LOL..penalized if other players did not play, as well as if another player could play longer than you.
 

Lord X

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Popps they can tell if your using the 3rd party software, even the 3rd party software developers admit the Devs can see its being used. But the GM does not care if you are using the 3rd party software, they just want to know your not doing it AFK.

Now that may not be their public policy, but it sure looks as if thats their working policy
Thats not exactly true. Either that or GM's in the past have falsified information to get someone wrongfully suspended. Either way I was once given a vacation from UO because I was using a 3rd party program. Thing is, I wasnt. Not only was I not running it, I was present at the keyboard the entire time and responded to the GM. Course he acted automated himself.... never replied to me just spit out all the generic text and hit the kick button.
 
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NuSair

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Anything in a game which requires a repetitive action can be scripted.

Walking up to a table, clicking a gump/materials, checking for results, stepping back and forth, rinse/repeat is easy. Seriously, if you really are under the belief it's not, you need to educate yourself on what is possible. Devs and players alike. Take 20 minutes and browse the scripts on various sites.

Part of me wants to say the random element of the number of needed materials was their way of trying to stop scripting, but if so, it was a rather not thought out well one.

It is almost like they wanted it to be scripted.
 

Petra Fyde

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I've never visited those sites, and I don't intend starting now. As a player, I don't need to know what scripts can do, I haven't the slightest intention of ever using one.

How would you design an event that wouldn't be scriptable?
 

Uriah Heep

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I've never visited those sites, and I don't intend starting now. As a player, I don't need to know what scripts can do, I haven't the slightest intention of ever using one.

How would you design an event that wouldn't be scriptable?

I wouldn't design one. I'd make it fairly easy to script, and then 72 everyone I caught doing it. And the trick would be to have it as a 3-4 day event, thatway the 72 would eliminate them from the event. o_O
 

Herman

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The quest/event
+
Good story
Fun gathering regs needed
New monster
Puzzle (old mastermind) but the way they did it it was fresh and new

-
Too many cures needed to get the top end rewards


I only did turn in 80-90 cures maybe that is why i m not upset with this quest/event
In my book this quest was fun so good work devs
 

NuSair

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I've never visited those sites, and I don't intend starting now. As a player, I don't need to know what scripts can do, I haven't the slightest intention of ever using one.

How would you design an event that wouldn't be scriptable?
Several times you have made comments as to what is possible or not or what you believe can not be scripted. IMO, if people want to comment on things that are possible or not, they really need to educate themselves on what is already possible.
 

NuSair

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I've never visited those sites, and I don't intend starting now. As a player, I don't need to know what scripts can do, I haven't the slightest intention of ever using one.

How would you design an event that wouldn't be scriptable?
Well, I'd be happy to do it for them, but they won't pay me. They've already implemented several ideas I have proposed though various channels, not sure I want to continue to do that uncompensated.

But, just for the sake of argument.

You have to look at what scripting is. It is actions that can be repeated over and over. There are even scripts that can complete entire champ spawns.

Off the top of my head, I would implement something that had a partly random element to it (like the location of chest in tmaps), one that required a response or several responses to questions that was able to pull from a database (or flat file) that was large enough to make scripting the answers near impossible, something like a random scavenger hunt using just about everything in UO, or make it so that it can only be completed X number of times, maybe only once.

There are ways to make scripting near impossible or impracticable, they just seem to not even take scripting into account when doing things. Or design these things with scripting in mind.
 

Picus at the office

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Anything you can do in the game can be written, ANYTHING. The game is just written on code....think about it.

I just read the posting about T-map hunting or something similar...that is a worthy idea but would have to produce better results than the thanksgiving event of a few years back.
 
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Merus

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I've never visited those sites, and I don't intend starting now. As a player, I don't need to know what scripts can do, I haven't the slightest intention of ever using one.

How would you design an event that wouldn't be scriptable?
The Bane invasion is a pretty good example of a non-scriptable event. Of course the other option would be to make the rewards automatic once the ingredients|requirements are met. If you take away the repetitive nature of the event you effectively remove the advantage of scripting... Now some may still try and script it, but it would not provide much value over the average player.

However, even without scripting in the mix, this event was horribly skewed towards players who are less obligated to real life responsibilities. Players who have an hour or two a day or a week to spend in UO had little to no chance to compete against power gamers who spend 8+ hours a day ingame. Poor poor event design no matter how you slice it.
 

NuSair

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I just read the posting about T-map hunting or something similar...that is a worthy idea but would have to produce better results than the thanksgiving event of a few years back.
Thanks! That wouldn't be too hard to produce better results. You could pretty much produce a nearly dynamic quest chain that would be unique with something like that.
 

Nimuaq

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The problem with the current event arc is not only the grinding, but a mix of grinding with various other factors. This will be a long post explaining why it is a poorly designed event cycle so far and why the grinding it introduced is not the same as grinding for gold, items, imbuing ingredients, fish orders etc.:


Act I began with the rioters inside the cities who had to be arrested using a rope that can be obtained from the guard captains. It goes like this: you find a rioter, you double click the rope, you target the rioter and return to the guard captain. In the beginning of this act, while the players knew that this type of action caused them to gain some “loyalty” for the city, they had no idea what this loyalty will be used for. It was later discovered that it takes arresting 500 angry rioters to get to the top loyalty rating, Venerated. Players worked hard to achieve that loyalty rating without even knowing what it will be used for. Mesanna told that we were getting loyalty for a purpose which will be revealed at a later date. It was later discovered that even accidentally killing one of the rioters cost multiple times of arresting rioters. Some of the players who were playing evil characters killed the rioters and since the system was acknowledging the evil actions, they thought that the negative loyalty rating will be used on somewhere too, which was later revealed that it won’t. Then it was discovered that Venerated was not actually required to get a city banner and it was also discovered that our loyalty ratings rapidly decayed. When the players ultimately gave up maintaining their loyalty ratings and let it decay, they’re told that logging in once a day will solve the decay issues.

Since much of these poor game design issues were “discovered” by the players, Kai posted City Loyalty Ratings Explained on uoherald. There is no playstyle involved in this act, you have to do the same thing over and over again without using any of your character’s abilities, skills, items etc., or any of the abilities of yourself as a veteran player, to earn an item and a title. This is not the good old grinding which you fight against the monster AI, RNG, etc. using your fighting skills, maybe your slayer weapons, your lrc fishing rod or some baits, this is a poorly designed event act that involves a very unfamiliar type of grinding to UO players: the mindless one, since you didn’t know why you were doing it and you didn’t need to use much of your brain functions. Most players who complain about the grinding recently still maintain the terrible memories from this act, losing the hard earned loyalty rating to decay (which caught them as surprise since it wasn’t mentioned anywhere beforehand), spending days near the monitor for an activity less fun than “watching flies f***”…



Act II began with a quest which you need to get one sample of purified blood from the blood dungeon and return it to the shirron of the juka, upon which she tells you where to find the meer and the juka heirlooms. This act involvs killing grave robbers, who reflect 50% of the damage dealt, to get the juka and the meer heirlooms with a lifespan of one day which you need to return to get a statuette, and not a cool statuette like the vet reward ones, just juka and meer creature thumbnails. Each grave robber drops a heirloom and you need to return 100 of these to get the lesser statuettes or a total of 600 of them to get all four statuettes. Killing a grave robber takes about five minutes (unless they spawn in Paragon form), thus you have about 50 hours ahead to get all the statuettes.

This was a novel idea from the developers, making the players use their pvm skills for the event, after all we all have various skills, why not use some of them for an event? However, nobody cared about the ugly statuettes and most were more interested with the cool juka and meer heirlooms, which we will discuss later on the fourth act.



Act III implemented the Underworld dungeon’s puzzle board to Exodus dungeon. Completing one of these puzzles drops a punch card to your backpack which you need 50 to get a nexus deed. Now, since the previous act is only participated by the players who are extraordinarily good at pvm (or have a lot of time on their hands to compensate for their weak pvm chars), this act was actually refreshing for the most since you don’t need any skills to participate. I said previously that you didn’t need any skills for the first act, but this was different since you need to use your brain to dodge the monsters inside the dungeon and to be able to solve the puzzle. Overall, not a bad act, but not the best either.



Act IV was designed to give the players an opportunity to obtain the heirlooms from the second act. This was a good idea since they showed that they do listen to their players (Mesanna was responding to the threads about the event back then). You can get a sifting tool for 1k gold which you use to sift through the sand to recover the antiquity fragments, 10 of which constructs a random heirloom. This could have been a repeat of the mindless grinding of the first act, but four factors made it the best act of this event cycle. Only the first one is thought by the developers, which was to make moderately strong monsters to randomly spawn while sifting: random encounters for the first time! The second is the group participation: the sifting takes place in the lost lands desert and a group of players can sift together, chit chat and help each other to kill the monsters that randomly spawn. The third is the paragon factor: the monsters are moderately strong but seeing a paragon version spawn all of a sudden is quite exciting and it is also fun to watch players running (you cant sift while mounted) away from a huge paragon calamari like creature (until it happens to you as well). The final one is the devs, as lazy as they can be sometimes when it comes to code new monsters' loot, copied a creature, together with is loot table, from one of the ML dungeons, thus making it drop ML item set pieces. This is still the best act of this event cycle in my opinion.



Act V only involved the “Call to Arms” event, an hour long live event which the players finally slayed Exodus. They managed to distribute the reward of this event only to the characters who dealt some relative damage to Exodus and not the healers, players who crashed thus missed the fight, players that missed the EM warning and were still occupied with destroying the damaged walls, etc.



Having all these trial and error experiences from the previous acts, they designed the sixth and (yet) the final act, Act VI. First of all, they included two books explaining what to do, as well as how the the system works in the publish notes, so they have provided the explanation beforehand, unlike Act I. Since Act II is only for strong pvm chars, they choose weak monsters and gardening to gather the necessary items as well as alchemy skill to have more attempts to mix the cure. Since most players enjoy solving the puzzle on Act III, they added a puzzle to this act too. They designed a village with laboratory stands to make players interact with each other while preparing the cure, like they did on Act IV. They said that they will distribute the rewards according to the contribution of others (will address this shortly), so every player who participated would have a chance to get a reward, unlike Act V. To prevent scripting, they specifically choose Ter Mur to prevent new accounts from participating and added 243 possible solutions to the puzzle as well as making (hopefully intentionally) two of the five resources needed for the act non-stackable which limited the number of cures to be turned in afk to about 100. Great decisions so far, so what went wrong? Nobody complained about grinding nexus deeds of Act III, this doesn’t look much different after all..

The bad decisions were adding a competition aspect to the event and not explaining the effect of other players’ participation on each shard. The idea wasn’t “each cure counts”, the idea was “if you don’t turn in enough cures, you are not even worthy to receive a reward”.

Yes, most mmos as their base gameplay equal a grind, and this is true for UO on most cases too. However, grinding is something we do to accomplish our self defined goals in UO, like collecting one of each colored fishing net in the game *coughs*. I have four nexus deeds because I thought putting one on each corner of my house would be cool (it wasn’t, the neighborhood started to gossip about Black putting huge dildos on his house and our EMs prohibit the use of nexus deeds, probably for moral reasons). The third act didn’t state a number of puzzles I need to solve or made me compete with others who want a nexus deed too. The same goes for the fourth act. Sure, nobody forced anyone to participate in these events, but isn't the goal of a global event to have as much player participation as possible? Thus, "don't like it, don't play it" is a dodgy argument here. On a broader perspective, nobody forces me to spend hours of fishing and completing orders for the fish monger quests and unlike the act in question, I don’t have a limited time to complete a specific amount of orders. I often farm imbuing ingredients, to sell them or use them to make a good suit (I always forgot to pof the items beforehand!) but that is something I choose to do and I can do whenever I want, and spend any amount of time I see fit. For this act, I couldn’t just casually gather resources if my goal was to get the best reward, I had to gather as much as I could, more than other players, and in less than a month. My contributions should have been “on par with others”, but I had no idea how many “others” (others, and not my fellow players) turned in, I had to top that or get close to that. And after I learned that Odin already turned in 500 (which was 921 at the end of the month), I just gave up, because the event was forcing me to grind more than Odin to at least have a shot of getting a good reward, but my attempts might have also caused him, a fellow player who is liked by everyone on the shard, to not to get a good reward either despite his efforts.



This is why it is a “different type of grinding” in my opinion, more like a grinding competition, and thank you for reading this far. :)
 

NBG

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Oh... I don't mind the grind. Some of the other arc event quests are still going and I have spent the time and obtained the items.

With cure event, it is shorter compare to other arc event quest and you can work as hard as you want but you end up not getting everything if you are on a shard with someone that plays the game for a living.....
 

Picus at the office

Certifiable
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
After all this time playing the game the last thing I want to do is grind. That said I spend a far larger amount of UO time reading this forum than I have done playing the game in the last 6 months. Sad but it seems the trend for all my old friends.
 

Lord X

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Forgot to mention the eventual Banners in the acts.... those were actually cool too.
 
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