How to make UO monsters better. Grinding down 10,000,000 hp over 30 or 40 hours gets tiresome

[Tanivar]

O.k., I admit, the thread title numbers are a little exaggerated. But fighting some monsters does feel this way.

The popular game AoS was based on and that now has a new version out, did have better monsters than UO typically has added since UO:Ren. The monsters, other than the ones at the end of Act 2 & 4, were not grinds to beat. No 50,000 hp kill your rump in one or two hits mobs. The battles were won or lost within a minute, they were not an hour grind. That is probably the best point of that game. The battles didn't last so long they got tiresome, then flat out boring. How many hundred times can you cast the same 'best' spell at a monster before losing the battle because your nodding off at the mindless repetition?

I'd like to see UO bring in an AI program from another game that has monsters use tactics against us, call in it's buddies, or at least become a challenge rather than the current grind of wearing down thousands of hp over a couple hours or more.

Anyone else have any thoughts on ways to improve combat vs monsters in UO? I mean the game AoS was based on has just the combat, thats it, no more depth to it at all. But it drew hundreds of thousands of players. It clearly was doing it's one thing, the combat scene, very well and the graphics were at about the level of those that UO has. Why was it such a long term cash cow for the Company that made it over what UO has been for EA since AoS cast it's shadow over Sosaria?

Any advice for the Devs on making UO combat better?

 

[weins201]

Monsters and the fight had nothing to do with the draw of Aos, the AI introduced and stil bing introduxed contstantly are improving. Unfortunatly you HAVE to have high hP monsters so that some player can actualy get into the fight. Sadley i see you as one of the single loners who are just looking to have you challange shortened to reciev a reward. If I am wrong in that thinking I am sorry, but improving the AI could Always help the grind is necessary.

 

[Tanivar]

I do tend to play solo since I normally craft instead of hunt. What combat I fight is basically my characters defending themselves or hunting something for what it drops. Ant Lions come to mind since I use them as a colored ore & peculiar seed source.

I rarely hunt anything in the ML or SA dungeons. My monster mugging pretty much stops with the SE monsters. I prefer the depth of play UO has beyond the major monster hacking scene. I bought ML, SA, & HS to be able to craft the items they introduced, phooey on the over-HPed monsters.

I started this thread to get ideas posted that the Devs could use to improvr the combat aspect of the game. Hopefully some turn up.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

I'd like to see UO bring in an AI program from another game that has monsters use tactics against us, call in it's buddies, or at least become a challenge rather than the current grind of wearing down thousands of hp over a couple hours or more.
Anyone else have any thoughts on ways to improve combat vs monsters in UO??

They have done this to a degree...
raptors and wolves come to mind first.
Daemon spawn in SA - imps (baby demons) are called before you get there, and they wake up their sleeping elders, etc.
Lich did something where it spawned a group of attackers, i think stopped now.
I think they've been putting in changes to see what works, makes sense, and that players like.
sounds tough, sorry

 

[Cogniac]

This thought is exemplified by the three rat bosses in the Cavern of the Discarded. 50,000hp each. They could have 10,000hp each and the fight would be 100% identical except for the time taken. The extra 40,000hp does not increase the challenge of the fight in any way whatsoever.

 

[Phangs_of_Phage]

This thought is exemplified by the three rat bosses in the Cavern of the Discarded. 50,000hp each. They could have 10,000hp each and the fight would be 100% identical except for the time taken. The extra 40,000hp does not increase the challenge of the fight in any way whatsoever.

The rats are probably the worse in the game. No chance of getting killed just whacking them forever

 

[legendsguy]

After having taken about 8 people and an hour and to kill Corgul I have to agree that the HP grind is a bit much. If a creature genuinely is tough that's one thing--but artificially-created toughness by merely having gobs and gobs of HP gets tiresome.

 

[Lord Gareth]

Make it so the player or players only have themselves to blame when they get slaughtered

Choosing what may or may not destroy you and anyone else you bring with you sounds like fun. You have to choose which Arms your foe will have. Will it have the pincher of Scalis? or will you unknowingly pick the arms of the Slasher? Will its head be that of a Medusa?A Mystic Llama Herder or maybe the rotting and decaying head of former Queen Dawn? Each part of the "Assembly Required Boss" would give it an ability (I Stink at math so I wont get detailed) but each part would have a certain hp, mana etc and the combined total makes its Stats and abilities.

(Highjacks EM event from 2 days ago) Maybe you need a GM Herder to challenge the "Assembly Required Boss"? They could herd Unknown Random parts into a circle to create it. (I wouldn't mind watching the body parts slide or crawl across the floor) and if you fail to defeat it the boss doesn't just poof it could attack a City or maybe it teleports to your house because its not done with you yet.

Oh and it has to say Puns! Like "You hit about as hard as Mesanna" I like when the Boss insults you as it kicks your butt.

 

[Driven Insane]

Not to open up an age old argument......

But if the monsters acted more like other players (cough PvP fights) the HP grind would be less of an issue. Ignoring the zerg tactics and cheats, part of the reason some people enjoy PvP so much is because of the challenge and exciting of fighting an opponent with at least half a brain.

Combos that can put you on your ass if you're not careful and prepared are what make fights exciting. An opponent that you sometime have to play cat and mouse with is exciting. Yes someone possibly being able to bring a few friends in at an unexpected time is exciting.

A 30 minute grind beating the snot out of something until it finally goes down with no real danger of dying is NOT exciting or challenging. Neither is a monster that can kill you in 2 hits within a span of .5 seconds.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

Neither is a monster that can kill you in 2 hits within a span of .5 seconds.

Much better when it's a player that can kill you in 2 hits within a span of .5 seconds?

I get what you're saying... which is why PvP is still an option for those who choose to embrace it. But truthfully, I think part of the issue is that with hit points so low on players in general, monster challenge is sometimes "I can kill you in 2 hits," which is just artificial challenge, and PvP challenge is who can make the best build (leaving the cheats out of this right now) that can knock someone out in 2 hits (rare, but not impossible).

There really needs, at some point, to be some sort of fundamental change to the game's core that allows for greater challenge to come less at the expense of immediate death and more at the expense of skill, whether PvP or PvM.

 

[Uvtha]

This thought is exemplified by the three rat bosses in the Cavern of the Discarded. 50,000hp each. They could have 10,000hp each and the fight would be 100% identical except for the time taken. The extra 40,000hp does not increase the challenge of the fight in any way whatsoever.

I say drop hit points and increase rarity of drops. Those rat dudes are the worst. I have literally stopped looking at the screen during fighting those things and read a book while I waited.

 

[Wolfman]

O.k., I admit, the thread title numbers are a little exaggerated. But fighting some monsters does feel this way.

The popular game AoS was based on and that now has a new version out, did have better monsters than UO typically has added since UO:Ren. The monsters, other than the ones at the end of Act 2 & 4, were not grinds to beat. No 50,000 hp kill your rump in one or two hits mobs. The battles were won or lost within a minute, they were not an hour grind. That is probably the best point of that game. The battles didn't last so long they got tiresome, then flat out boring. How many hundred times can you cast the same 'best' spell at a monster before losing the battle because your nodding off at the mindless repetition?

I'd like to see UO bring in an AI program from another game that has monsters use tactics against us, call in it's buddies, or at least become a challenge rather than the current grind of wearing down thousands of hp over a couple hours or more.

Anyone else have any thoughts on ways to improve combat vs monsters in UO? I mean the game AoS was based on has just the combat, thats it, no more depth to it at all. But it drew hundreds of thousands of players. It clearly was doing it's one thing, the combat scene, very well and the graphics were at about the level of those that UO has. Why was it such a long term cash cow for the Company that made it over what UO has been for EA since AoS cast it's shadow over Sosaria?

Any advice for the Devs on making UO combat better?

I think they are improving it: With the introduction of the void pool I realized for a first time, that the ranged weapon mobs try to stay back (rat-archers and the air elementals that use arrows). So, not that this makes a huge difference, it was nice for me to notice and I would love to see more improvements along these lines. Why not introduce hide and stealth tactics for certain monsters (with the same chances being "flushed out" with area effect spells or tracking/detect hidden).
Mortal strike only when the fought opponent is below 40% of his/her HP.
.....

I know mostly PvP ideas, but I think that's where the "smartest" battles happen,...... at least on some shards.

 

[Phangs_of_Phage]

Much better when it's a player that can kill you in 2 hits within a span of .5 seconds?

I get what you're saying... which is why PvP is still an option for those who choose to embrace it. But truthfully, I think part of the issue is that with hit points so low on players in general, monster challenge is sometimes "I can kill you in 2 hits," which is just artificial challenge, and PvP challenge is who can make the best build (leaving the cheats out of this right now) that can knock someone out in 2 hits (rare, but not impossible).

There really needs, at some point, to be some sort of fundamental change to the game's core that allows for greater challenge to come less at the expense of immediate death and more at the expense of skill, whether PvP or PvM.

Please dont speak of pvp. You obivously how no idea about it.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

Please dont speak of pvp. You obivously how no idea about it.

Oh, I'm sorry... I've never PvPed, ever. You caught me.

So are you challenging the notion that 2-hit kills never happen in PvP? Believe me, a PvP geared and templated person can do that to an unprepared player, and isn't that the gist of the idea of PvP vs. PvE? There's a reason most people don't PvP in UO... most of them don't understand it, and aren't prepared for it. I'm not sure why you're taking it so seriously since it was said lightly anyway...

If you're challenging the notion that PvP is about the best build and gear, I suppose we'll have to disagree... yes, there is some room for skill, but templates and gear do, indeed, provide an advantage.

But then, I don't know why I'm defending my argument since the only tidbit of knowledge you've provided is a generic presumption that I know nothing of which I speak. *shrugs* Your belief doesn't change reality.

 

[Tanivar]

I'd like to see Mesanna get some PvPers together on each shard and give them some serious monsters to run. The monsters are no tougher than normal but have the combat and survival skills of true PvPers instead of just a standard AI program.

Drop a dozen of them in Luna as an invasion and let them waste every player character they come across on the shard if they can. The montsters hide themselves when the PvPer needs to log, and renews it's hunt when the PvPer logs back on. The monsters are able to heal themselves magically or with bandages, or perhaps regen some hp for each character they kill. Say 10% of the victims skill point total. Run them as a party so they can coordinate their efforts.

 

[Phangs_of_Phage]

2 hit kills do not happen in pvp. Any decent char will have 130 HP, the only thing that will deal over 40 damage in pvp is a focused mage that has your cursed and flamestriked you. I mean deathstrike hits hard but thats why you learn game mechanics.