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POLL: Should Faction STAT Loss remain the same, be adjusted, or removed?

Should Faction Stat Loss be Revamped to last less then 20 minutes, be REMOVED, or Not Changed at all

  • Reduce the amount of time players are penalized so that it's less then 20 minutes.

    Votes: 17 31.5%
  • Remove Stat Loss ALL TOGETHER!

    Votes: 15 27.8%
  • Don't Mess with Stat Loss, I enjoy the 20 minutes that it currently lasts for.

    Votes: 22 40.7%

  • Total voters
    54

Lord Frodo

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factions is about fighting. popping a harry is the best way for a fight. same with sitting in dsp with the coon up. i very rarely see faction guilds running spawns for the rewards. mine dont even spawn at all.

why sit in a town??? no one will fight there cause no reason. also, blues continually mess up faction fights in guard zones for some stupid reason. no reason to be in town.
Like others have said spawns are the single best way to start a fight and it might be that a faction player shows up to enter that fight. Who on earth is going to bother defending a town or a base, that was boring as all heck 7 years ago when there was 400% more players. No one needs a horse anymore nor do people need town vendors, some lesser faction players might want to control Yew so they can place guards as a extra crutch. You expect me to join factions and hug some base with the hope that you might come to fight?
Factions are not about just about fighting other people.
Factions are about
  • Killing opposing faction members.
  • Controling your Faction Towns
  • Protecting your Faction Base.
Factions are NOT about
  • Killing non-Faction members. (You dont get faction points for this)
  • Controling Spawns (Spawns are not part of the Faction System)
  • Sitting in Luna (There is no faction combat on the Trammel facet.)
To me all you are doing is exploiting a system so you can get Faction Gear to use in non-Faction play. If all you want to do is fight then change out of your Faction Gear and go fight. Sorry if you used an exploit and built you skills around Faction Gear and without it you are just like the rest of the non-Faction players.

Faction Gear should only work in Faction Towns and at Faction Bases only, no matter which Faction either controls it or owns it. There should be zones around these areas and when you leave a Faction zone your equipment either falls off or is converted to normal arties. Upon entering a Faction Zone all Faction Gear will then revert back to Faction Gear with all it benifits.

If you want to play Factions then go play Factions and quit exploiting a broken system just so you can get LEET Faction Gear and stop with the BS "well just join Factions". Some of us refuse to exploit a broken system just to have LEET Faction Gear.

FACT! Factions would be dead if you could only use Faction Gear in Factions Zones only.

Quit exploiting a broken system and make Faction Gear work in Faction areas (zones) only.
 

Picus at the office

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no, but don't expect something silly like non-faction people being restricted from attacking you...in FEL...at a spawn.....I seem to remember them creating an entire facet for that....you know...where you can only be attacked by those you're at war with....
I only mentioned this silly idea because I had read that other people wished to see tha faction clad players could not attack others...it can not be one way without it being the other.
 
S

Sevin0oo0

Guest
Factions are NOT about
  • Sitting in Luna (There is no faction combat on the Trammel facet.)
A Faction fighter says Hey look, it's one of them Minax dudes, it's Trammel, let's go give him some sugars,
but after he steps thru that Moongate, Kill the SOB!

Something really really wrong with this? So the reward can be used in Tram with Zero risk?
What Factions is about: :mylittlepony:
yeah, tough guy
 

Lord Frodo

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A Faction fighter says Hey look, it's one of them Minax dudes, it's Trammel, let's go give him some sugars,

but after he steps thru that Moongate, Kill the SOB!

Something really really wrong with this? So the reward can be used in Tram with Zero risk?
What Factions is about: :mylittlepony:
yeah, tough guy
LMAO TY
 

Picus at the office

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Face reality, most of the people here were to worried about stat and not being able to hide behind blue status yet they wish that the masses would believe it was all about the suits.
 

Raptor85

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so...i didn't just read like 30 threads of other factioners whining about not getting free faction artys?
 

Picus at the office

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No, I believe you read threads that attempted to discuss the poor effect that the faction changes had on many shards. There were people who talked about the loss of items for sure but there was also great talk about the sudden loss players who have still not come back. All of those people paid the same amount of money as you and I, they played inside of the rules that the Devs gave and only due to some, seemingly common, absurd planning were kicked in the teeth. It is people like Frodo the shoeless who bring up the faction arties but they never talk about the loss of players. Why? I don't know but I can run to a few conclusions:(
 

Don't Tread on Me

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Factions are not about just about fighting other people.
Factions are about
  • Killing opposing faction members.
  • Controling your Faction Towns
  • Protecting your Faction Base.
Factions are NOT about

  • Killing non-Faction members. (You dont get faction points for this)
  • Controling Spawns (Spawns are not part of the Faction System)
  • Sitting in Luna (There is no faction combat on the Trammel facet.)
To me all you are doing is exploiting a system so you can get Faction Gear to use in non-Faction play. If all you want to do is fight then change out of your Faction Gear and go fight. Sorry if you used an exploit and built you skills around Faction Gear and without it you are just like the rest of the non-Faction players.


Faction Gear should only work in Faction Towns and at Faction Bases only, no matter which Faction either controls it or owns it. There should be zones around these areas and when you leave a Faction zone your equipment either falls off or is converted to normal arties. Upon entering a Faction Zone all Faction Gear will then revert back to Faction Gear with all it benifits.

If you want to play Factions then go play Factions and quit exploiting a broken system just so you can get LEET Faction Gear and stop with the BS "well just join Factions". Some of us refuse to exploit a broken system just to have LEET Faction Gear.

FACT! Factions would be dead if you could only use Faction Gear in Factions Zones only.

Quit exploiting a broken system and make Faction Gear work in Faction areas (zones) only.
no no no no NO! Factions is about pvp. Fel is about pvp (like it or not, that's what it is). Stat is the best thing going for factions (though I think 10 minutes might be a little better than 20, it's still not a big deal) because it a) gives you a great reason to drop an oj and b) gives you a great reason NOT to be dropped by an oj.

From your comments above, I figure you are not in factions and venture into fel on a blue and get killed sometimes and are a little bum-hurt about it. Dude, welcome to fel. The faction guys aren't killing you because they have a faction arty here or there, they're killing you because 1) they're better than you, 2) they have better teamwork than you do, 3) there are more of them. Get over the faction arties already! :bdh:

What is the point of sitting in a city or faction base waiting for, what, huh? NOTHING WILL HAPPEN! and people will log. Spawning, raiding, doing harry's, etc is how fights occur. If that means some bluebies get killed, oh well, that's how it is in fel. Don't like it? fight back! Sigil fighting is lots of fun when it happens--but it never does and the towns serve no purpose and takes an inordiante amount of time sitting around doing nothing and is BORING AS _____ !!!!

Lastly, anyone who joins factions just to get gear and tram it up killing bosses and the like is complete lamesauce (stolen from someone's sig, i like it).
 

Picus at the office

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You missed point number 4 which is the best one of them all.


4) We enjoy killing you. It's really fun. The best part of the game. Winning at PvP makes up for all the stupid crap that has happened over the years. Nonconsentual PvP was, is and will always be the best part of the game. Sadly not enough people ever tried flagging to see what a great element of the game it was. Loosing at PvP is 500% better than doing anything else other than winning.
 

Lord Frodo

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LMAO Factions are a joke and the only reason either of you joined them were to get the Faction Gear. Neither of you have done anything to get towns or advance your Faction. At least be honest, you are willing to exploit a broken system for gear and have no other desire that has anything to do with Factions. If you couldn't use the Faction Gear outside of Faction Towns or Factions Bases then neither one of you would be in Factions.
 

Picus of Napa

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LOL, can you show me one person who would join factions if all you could do was sit in a base or a town? I don't want to ask if the above post was a joke but....
 

Don't Tread on Me

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LMAO Factions are a joke and the only reason either of you joined them were to get the Faction Gear. Neither of you have done anything to get towns or advance your Faction. At least be honest, you are willing to exploit a broken system for gear and have no other desire that has anything to do with Factions. If you couldn't use the Faction Gear outside of Faction Towns or Factions Bases then neither one of you would be in Factions.
Wait... my guys aren't wearing faction gear. Not because of any moral outrage but because I'm sick of taking it on and off as my rank flucuates. Have I quit factions? No. Factions is awesome because you KNOW that the other oj's are going to attack you and they know that you'll attack them. Seeing an oj flash on your screen and the ensuing hunt is what is awesome. I don't get much of my rocks off knocking a blue away--half the time the blue doesn't even know how to fight at all and I wind up feeling bad for dropping a noob. Your view on factions is convoluted. It's about fighting and dropping all the oj's you see with a vengence. Waiting out their stat, and doing it again.

Again, lots less people will rage log if they only have to wait 10 minutes for revenge.

And, again, why would I sit in a town? *yawns*
 

Dan123The123Man

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I've got a question for those of you who raid and such on faction toons... Does it really matter if you bring a template that can res your faction teammate (as long as the template has offense as well as defense)? I mean does it really matter if you can res or not if as soon as you die you're out 40 (I believe?) skill points in all of your skills. I mean does a person NEED To be able to res his team mates really? I mean what use will they be at 6x 80s lol? Reason i'm askin is cause i'm workin on a template but either I 1. give up some offense to res or 2. **** being able to res and have offense. (its not ur everyday template that u see people with).
 

Don't Tread on Me

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I've got a question for those of you who raid and such on faction toons... Does it really matter if you bring a template that can res your faction teammate (as long as the template has offense as well as defense)? I mean does it really matter if you can res or not if as soon as you die you're out 40 (I believe?) skill points in all of your skills. I mean does a person NEED To be able to res his team mates really? I mean what use will they be at 6x 80s lol? Reason i'm askin is cause i'm workin on a template but either I 1. give up some offense to res or 2. **** being able to res and have offense. (its not ur everyday template that u see people with).
Yeah, I fight in stat all the time... if you're in the heat of battle, better to fight in stat than be completely gone. That being said, I would have the better offensive template vs being able to rez. Let the mages etc rez. Don't put a skill on specifically to rez. Set up your template to kill instead.
 

Picus at the office

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I would agree with Don't, offensive all the way. I fight in stat all the time as do most of my guildmates, it never ceases to amaze me how many people you can still kill regardless of total skill points.

Most of my pure dexxer types don't have anat so i can't res anyways and I leave that to the mages who can do it more effectively anyways due to walls, precast heals and invis. More often than not it's the dex monkey's role to storm the bridge or choke point to cause havok while the mages cast the fields and really do the majority of the true push(imo) thus in a real field fight it's my butt who's getting stat not the mage. Hit area weapons are surprisingly effective for a roll such as that.
 
Z

Zyon Rockler

Guest
I think Factions current system is just not good enough to be fun. It doesn't really offer anything more in my opinion.

It needs to have a goal. The Sigs don't cut it. There's not enough story to include the towns, shops. I think the game probably lacks alot of the team oriented programming that it will probably have in the future to create a tactical warfare type mini game.

Losing stats doesn't really make sense because all it does is take you out of the game or limit your ability. This seems more like some type of barbaric punishment or childish hazing or even just a very unlogical annoyance.

But I don't think it's because of the idea itself. I think it's because of the system surrounding it does not do it justice.

For example: I could invite someone into my guild and then kill them and not have to worry about stat or I could bring together a team and just monopolize kills, so, eliminate the chance of dieing. So, because there is a way around stat, it really has no purpose even if that means not being in Factions at all, it creates a way around it and furthermore, leaving the game to play one that does not have stat loss.

Now, I know, that's not taken into consideration but if you had a million people, I don't see how many of them would want to join Factions because they could have stat loss. It's not really a good selling point. I try to understand this over and over in my mind. I can make up games, fun games that people like to play over and over, card games, dice games, just stupid pass the time games but every time I try to create a game with stat loss it just sounds ridiculous.

Like, if I invited everyone over to play cards and then told them that if they lost a hand they would have to sit out for 20 hands, what would be the point in inviting them over? They could just stay home and watch tv for that 20 minutes. So, I basically blame the game itself, not the concept of stat loss, just the idea of what makes it worth it or why we need it.

Factions, to me, should be a tactical war game. It should include bases and armies. Armies should need resources, weapons and armour. Each should have its' own power or unique advantage. There should be warring capabilities such as tamables and spells and even actions that are connected to each component as a team effort for one goal, with several smaller goals to achieve it.

There should be battles that last no more than 4 hours on an epic scale. Bases should be divided and reset as well as resources, towns, even NPCs. There should be food supplies and anything maintained by the Faction should be through means of war, which is simply killing an enemy or an enemy spawn or holding teritory that belongs to the enemy even though the area gives them an advantage. For example: Strongholds, Towers, Walls, Resupplying Stations, Seige Weapons and of course the list goes on.

But I don't think stat loss should be the focus. I think a plan should be put in place that creates a mini game, a tactical war game that is expanded on as more systems that are needed are developed that promote team work and help the over all feeling of being in an actual war. These are not just systems that we can just throw sand at each other and be happy. We need to discipline our fighters not stop them from playing. We need organized troops not a bunch of yippy PvP artists or PK killers who think it's funny to watch others die and we definately don't need any Thieves running around stealing.

Not that these things couldn't be worked into the mechanics to give you an advantage. For example: In a Chaos Guild or in an Evil Faction being red could give you special rage powers, feeding the evil of the murderer so that his power is able to leech life itself but these systems need to be realized. The importance of drawing in people is far more important than trying to control them.
 

Dan123The123Man

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I'm not finished reading your post Zyon but oh.. my.... dear.... god.... VERY well said! You COMPLETELLY understand how discouraging and dissapointing it actually is!
 

kelmo

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I read it... Let's say I am not quite as giddy and ready to 'Squee'. Are you seriously expecting the amount of time and resources required for such a system to be available? Trust me, the Powers that be know exactly how many accounts and characters are in factions and where they play. It is naive to think otherwise. Let's all pull for a realistic makeover please.
 

Dan123The123Man

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I read it... Let's say I am not quite as giddy and ready to 'Squee'. Are you seriously expecting the amount of time and resources required for such a system to be available? Trust me, the Powers that be know exactly how many accounts and characters are in factions and where they play. It is naive to think otherwise. Let's all pull for a realistic makeover please.
*scratches head* :coco:
 

Don't Tread on Me

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I'm not sure I'm with Zyon 100%, but I like his way of thinking and his ideas. A brainstorming on this would procure good results I think....
 

Driven Insane

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Where do you get yer statistics from? Never mind... I do not want to know where you pulled those numbers from.
Easy. Just look at Faction participation before the Artis were added.

Face it. Factions is a boring/broken system and the only reason 99% of the people join is for Artis that cannot be gotten anywhere else.
 

kelmo

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Easy. Just look at Faction participation before the Artis were added.

Face it. Factions is a boring/broken system and the only reason 99% of the people join is for Artis that cannot be gotten anywhere else.
Where do I look for these facts? I can honestly say Factions has picked up! More folks are joining Factions and Faction Guilds are recruiting.

People are coming back to UO and celebrating this long over due fix for bugged faction points.
 

Don't Tread on Me

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Seeing orange and killing is awesome! If you have arties or not, who cares. Being able to kill someone with consequence is why most pvpers that I know are in factions. Not arties. Who cares about arties? It seems only trammies care about faction arties.
 

Driven Insane

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Whatver :coco:

Kelmo - I don't need to tell you Seige is different.

Anyone else - Factions was dead before the Artis. Don't bother even lying to me or yourself to say that Factions is some awesome system.
 

Dan123The123Man

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Where do I look for these facts? I can honestly say Factions has picked up! More folks are joining Factions and Faction Guilds are recruiting.

People are coming back to UO and celebrating this long over due fix for bugged faction points.
not trying to give you facts or even call you a liar... I just spoke with a buddy of mine on ATL and apparently one of the few only (active?) pvp guilds on there (HOT) is actually going non faction (atleast that's what I gathered, I didn't dealve into to much detail). My point being though is that there is one of the what 5 pvp guilds on ATL for instance and if they actually go non faction I believe the others may follow. Sort of like a chain reaction if you will. One guild goes non faction and the rest will... Personally I think everyone should war one another, and everyone fight in tram and fel... Sure would be interesting seeing lag fest luna bank being the new fel yew gate. Who knows... Maybe the bank sitting (trammies) will learn some pvp :thumbsup:.
 

Picus at the office

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I'm hoping that this newest patch will bring some life back to factions. I think the issue is that players whom are now finished rebuilding suits see the current trade off of stat vs no stat without the benifit of the items not worth the trouble. Adding in the fact that you cannot seem to maintain rank and the drop off of other players only makes it worse. I don't know about ATL, I have chars there but I don't use them but other smaller shards are currently empty.

Warring is a option that I have looked into but it never seems to get accepted????
 
S

Shakkar

Guest
some alternate talk on rankings ,faction items, and where they can be used.Heard some good points. I personally would like to see more faction players across the board. If to get them in is letting them use the faction artys and points fine. however any player that comes to tram with faction artys on should be attackable as if there faction was a guild. that would spice it up a bit and give a reason why these faction artys should be allowed in the tram ruleset areas. otherwise they should not be usable in tram. thats what I think.
 
S

Sevin0oo0

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however any player that comes to tram with faction artys on should be attackable as if there faction was a guild.
/that. If they throw that switch, they also loose the right to call guards, I think what you said should happen whether they're wearing faction gear or not, but great idea
 

Picus at the office

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Yup factions should be clear across all facets. Can you cast reveal in tram towns or detect hidden? If not that should/would have to be looked at but one thing at a time I guess....
 

Mervyn

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I don't really see the point in discussing something that works absolutely fine (stat loss timers) when the ranking issue hasn't been optimised correctly.

Mervyn... ever the optimiser
 

Dan123The123Man

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A person should be able to DETECT OR REVEAL ANY Hostiles... They shouldnt be able to detect or reveal players that aren't even flagged on them in trammel; however, they should be able to reveal things that can be or are flagged on them (hense other players). That would fix detecting faction players in trammel. Calling guards, yeah that would resolve that problem... Red players would kinda be left out while not being able to goto trammel but that's the drawback of being a red i guess. The reds would eventually turn blue so they could and fel yew gate will die not because yew is empty but because everyone converted to a BLUE to play in trammel... Remove stat or make it like 5 minutes or something and I dont think it will kill pvp all together. Cause when no pvp is at the yew gate and people still wanna pvp they will need to resort to factions.

A lot of people out there don't like stat loss and I just think in order to please both parties it should 1. be removed or 2. be adjusted... The faction lpayers out there that have been playing with stat might like it but what i'm saying is it won't be a deal breaker if they didn't have it or if it were reduced... It could be a deal breaker tho for people who have to resort to factions to pvp and who don't already support the 20 minute stare at screen.
So yeah it would kill fel pvp is what i'm saying and in return I would expect a change in the penalty of stat loss so that PvP isn't destroyed all together... If Tram pvp became the new thing I would hope stat loss got removed... I for one like pvping, and do not support the 2 minute gank and 20 minute stare at screen. I pay to play the damn game and want to enjoy the aspect that I enjoy most about it. Since pvp became the "hit thing" even a dummy could tell that fights dont last longer anymore and it essentially killed part of the 'action" in fel.

If pvp were to go tram style in factions (which we all know would happen if this went into affect) then I vote remove stat loss; otherwse, UO is gonna die even quicker then we had imagined. There will be "trammies" left but pvp would be dead(ER?) as far as anyone could tell.
 

Viper09

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Detect/reveal DOES work in tram on hostile players. When I was warred to some guilds every time I walked into Luna I used detect hidden and was always able to find at least one person hiding.
 

Dan123The123Man

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off topic but I sure would like to see some "faction events". Like something that would cause different factions to fight one another to accomplish a mission. Take "color wars" for example... Stick a group of CoM or regular players on one corner of a maze and stick 3 other groups on all 3 other corners... Stick the "cheese" or whatever you want in the middle and encourage the players to fight for it somehow.... I dunno just a random thought while sitting borred at work... I would like to see "color wars" though whether it be faction events or regular any player event.
 
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