FACTIONS

[Kage]

I see a lot of negative comments going out against the people who are complaining about not being able to wear their equipment. I hate to break it to you guys but they have every right to complain.... What people don't seem to understand is all of the people who are upset about this and play on several different shards do not have the time or money to revamp characters on every shard and they shouldn't have to.

People have spent tons of gold and valuable free time building there suits on several shards over the years then over night they wake up and aren't able to pvp on any shards and are pretty much FORCED into playing one shard and only hoping that they have high enough rank to be able to use the suit that they spent hours upon hours at making not to mention the amount of gold wasted on runics and imbuing/reforging.

I mean people have been running around in RANK 10 FACTION ARTIES since they were introduced. There was no reason to Fix it after all of these years regardless if it was meant to be or not.

I my self pretty much done with UO I will not be spending my time grinding at this game AGAIN, making new suits for SEVERAL characters that I shouldn't have to be replacing at all.

 

[Mirt]

I guess you too are unwilling to take the help that so many of us are offering to help make suits. At a certain point not accepting folks help you say that you wanted to quit and your using this as an excuse. If you do want help, well just PM me. The same goes for anyone on and off stratics. If you cannot make a new suit find me in game on Chesy, through ICQ or on stratics. I am willing to help anyone that asks for it.

 

[Kage]

No I'm not willing to take the help. Templates are built around suits. It's not about having to just swap out gear it's about grinding and skills also. I shouldn't be forced to stop using something I have earned and have been using during my play time. That's like me finally getting a castle spot on ATL then the devs step in and say well 15yrs ago castles were not meant to be placed on ATL we will be removing them next patch. Yes extreme but same concept.

 

[Kage]

@ Mirt very noble thing to do by offering to help and I do thank you for that.

My self when it comes to pvp I'm more of a perfectionist and pretty much spent billions making the perfect suits for multi shards and several other people I know also have done this. So you go to think about how much personal time, and money was just wasted due to this change. My self this change probably cost me 2 billion and yes i mean billion in gold for all accounts/characters.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

I think what could be useful for skills is trimming, put on soulstone, take 1-20 Pts off the top end, permanently. There's been several times where I acquired an article later, only to not use it because of the inability to adjust skills easily.

 

[Mirt]

No I'm not willing to take the help. Templates are built around suits. It's not about having to just swap out gear it's about grinding and skills also. I shouldn't be forced to stop using something I have earned and have been using during my play time. That's like me finally getting a castle spot on ATL then the devs step in and say well 15yrs ago castles were not meant to be placed on ATL we will be removing them next patch. Yes extreme but same concept.

But in this case it is different. Everyone knew this system was bugged and was not working as it was intended. I have experienced the painful end of nerfs and they weren't even from a long standing bug. I do realize that its painful but there is a point at which you have to either chose to go with the nerf or admit its a game breaker. If its a game breaker complaining about it is unlikely to change anything for you and its best to chime in and move on. For your own blood pressure its better. But I think if you give it some time you will find that while you might no longer be able to shard hop as much (at least at first) there is a great deal to be said picking a shard and sticking with it. This is your chance to do more of that and allow it to go forward and for that having someone get you a suit or two is a great idea. Imagine playing factions where when you go into stat instead of swapping chars you either stay and fight in stat or acutally wait out the 20. By then the fight is likely over but thats the perfect time to stir something else up. Its a chance to do something totally new. While all nerfs hurt (most of them bad) its better in the long run to either make a clean break or to try and adjust and adapt. It sure seems that is what happened on Chesy where pvp has been about as active as its been in years.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

no longer be able to shard hop as much... there is a great deal to be said picking a shard and sticking with it.

remember I don't PVP... I'm taking this to mean that if your current rank allows use of certain items, simply moving to a different shard this is subject to change? possibly losing all entitlements?
If so.. I think of it related to a gunfighter moving into a new area, he has an advantage until he experiences actual combats, but he doesn't have to re-prove himself, maybe he's good, maybe he suks. Ex. He's the best a shard has, but gets regularly killed by Barney Fife on the new shard, he should lose rank very fast. Alternately, if he is low on the scale and regularly kills the best, he should gain faster than normal. If players want to Xshard just to play, I think they should be accommodated.

 

[Mirt]

remember I don't PVP... I'm taking this to mean that if your current rank allows use of certain items, simply moving to a different shard this is subject to change? possibly losing all entitlements?
If so.. I think of it related to a gunfighter moving into a new area, he has an advantage until he experiences actual combats, but he doesn't have to re-prove himself, maybe he's good, maybe he suks. Ex. He's the best a shard has, but gets regularly killed by Barney Fife on the new shard, he should lose rank very fast. Alternately, if he is low on the scale and regularly kills the best, he should gain faster than normal. If players want to Xshard just to play, I think they should be accommodated.

If you actually move a char in factions you lose all your points so any faction arties you have you couldn't use as you have 0 points.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

If you actually move a char in factions you lose all your points so any faction arties you have you couldn't use as you have 0 points.

That certainly would kill any participation, sounds like BS! So anyone that Xshards should also lose all fame, karma, virtues as well, since they were earned elsewhere? Naw, sorry, that's just wrong.

 

[Mirt]

That certainly would kill any participation, sounds like BS! So anyone that Xshards should also lose all fame, karma, virtues as well, since they were earned elsewhere? Naw, sorry, that's just wrong.

No but to transfer you are leaving factions. Then you rejoin. That being said most of the cross sharding with factions is not about moving chars with transfer tokens its about having many chars across multiple shards largely outfitted by using the artie vending machine.

 

[Podolak]

I have seen a lot of people, both PvPers and PvMers who have questioned why people "shard hop". I have seen some references (not specifically directed at you Mirt) to the virtues of playing on one shard only. I think this can be thought of like the dreaded "shard merger" topic. We are very unlikely to merge shards, thereby bringing PvPers together. So, PvPers have taken matters into their own hands and created characters/suits on many shards so they can get action when they need it. It is an unfortunate reality. Of course it goes in cycles too; sometimes Lake Superior is the pvp hot spot, sometimes Great Lakes even Catskills at one point was hopping.

I don't think multi-shard pvpers should be critcized or punished for being well multi-shard pvpers. I am sure they would love to play on one shard given there is action always available but that is NOT what we have presently. I do think it is generous for people like Mirt to offer to help on their given shards. I also understand Kage's need for perfection. A conundrum to be sure.

 

[Mirt]

I have seen a lot of people, both PvPers and PvMers who have questioned why people "shard hop". I have seen some references (not specifically directed at you Mirt) to the virtues of playing on one shard only. I think this can be thought of like the dreaded "shard merger" topic. We are very unlikely to merge shards, thereby bringing PvPers together. So, PvPers have taken matters into their own hands and created characters/suits on many shards so they can get action when they need it. It is an unfortunate reality. Of course it goes in cycles too; sometimes Lake Superior is the pvp hot spot, sometimes Great Lakes even Catskills at one point was hopping.

I don't think multi-shard pvpers should be critcized or punished for being well multi-shard pvpers. I am sure they would love to play on one shard given there is action always available but that is NOT what we have presently. I do think it is generous for people like Mirt to offer to help on their given shards. I also understand Kage's need for perfection. A conundrum to be sure.

No offense taken but I should confess that I play Chesy and Baja only at this time. I really only RP on Baja (at least for now) so in this case I have not been hit all that hard. The fact that you bring up the cyclical nature of which shards are hopping with pvp bears this out. That is what its most used for one shard has things going on folks jump in on it then it goes away and then in a few weeks it starts up on another shard. It is a terrible sign of the population that it goes on in fact someone once posted on the pvp thread in the chesy forum how pvp guild recruiting was incest. It does make for an odd world with odd alliances.

 

[Podolak]

No offense taken but I should confess that I play Chesy and Baja only at this time. I really only RP on Baja (at least for now) so in this case I have not been hit all that hard. The fact that you bring up the cyclical nature of which shards are hopping with pvp bears this out. That is what its most used for one shard has things going on folks jump in on it then it goes away and then in a few weeks it starts up on another shard. It is a terrible sign of the population that it goes on in fact someone once posted on the pvp thread in the chesy forum how pvp guild recruiting was incest. It does make for an odd world with odd alliances.

You my friend are spot on. In some cases the alliances on a shard are they very same guilds who used to fight each other. The opponents on that shard are those who have "invaded" from other shards. Before people say "well if you didn't ally up with the entire shard you'd have people to fight" should realize that allying up with the entire shard might only consist of 8 people. Also bearing in mind that those 8 people are the 8 pvpers, I am not referring to pepole who do not venture to Felucca or do but don't actively engage in pvp.

 

[virtualhabitat]

I shouldn't be forced to stop using something I have earned and have been using during my play time.

...its about having many chars across multiple shards largely outfitted by using the artie vending machine.

Funny isn't it?

 

[Mirt]

You my friend are spot on. In some cases the alliances on a shard are they very same guilds who used to fight each other. The opponents on that shard are those who have "invaded" from other shards. Before people say "well if you didn't ally up with the entire shard you'd have people to fight" should realize that allying up with the entire shard might only consist of 8 people. Also bearing in mind that those 8 people are the 8 pvpers, I am not referring to pepole who do not venture to Felucca or do but don't actively engage in pvp.

I am not actually against these alliances. I just find them amusing. It does say something very negative that many of our shards do have just 8 pvpers left. In some ways the dropping of the suits could actually help this as it makes it a bit less daunting to go and pvp. Of course I do not think that will actually happen but it could. On Chesy the USA alliance and PITS have been going into fel and fighting. USA has been a bit light in vent lately but I am sure they will be heading back in as well. Of course I would not say either USA or PITS are fel guilds but they are moving in the right direction for more pvp. There is still the issue of scripting in pvp and packet pushers and speed hacks but its a start.

 

[LordDrago]

I see a lot of negative comments going out against the people who are complaining about not being able to wear their equipment. I hate to break it to you guys but they have every right to complain.... What people don't seem to understand is all of the people who are upset about this and play on several different shards do not have the time or money to revamp characters on every shard and they shouldn't have to.

People have spent tons of gold and valuable free time building there suits on several shards over the years then over night they wake up and aren't able to pvp on any shards and are pretty much FORCED into playing one shard and only hoping that they have high enough rank to be able to use the suit that they spent hours upon hours at making not to mention the amount of gold wasted on runics and imbuing/reforging.

I mean people have been running around in RANK 10 FACTION ARTIES since they were introduced. There was no reason to Fix it after all of these years regardless if it was meant to be or not.

I my self pretty much done with UO I will not be spending my time grinding at this game AGAIN, making new suits for SEVERAL characters that I shouldn't have to be replacing at all.

A couple of notes:

1. I can understand the frustration over the fact that faction artifacts have been broken for quite some time, and due to this, and fix to what was originally intended, or anything close to what was intended, is going to be very rough.

2. I know there are many people out there willing to help create suits for PvPers. I hear a lot of people YELLING that making the suits is going to be expensive and time consuming. Someone steps up and offers help and what? A whole lot of silence. So, either this is not that much of an issue, or people just want to wallow in self pity?

 

[Lady CaT]

A couple of notes:

1. I can understand the frustration over the fact that faction artifacts have been broken for quite some time, and due to this, and fix to what was originally intended, or anything close to what was intended, is going to be very rough.

2. I know there are many people out there willing to help create suits for PvPers. I hear a lot of people YELLING that making the suits is going to be expensive and time consuming. Someone steps up and offers help and what? A whole lot of silence. So, either this is not that much of an issue, or people just want to wallow in self pity?

I think you hit the nail on the head!

Most of these faction players readily admit they travel to other shards even to find a fight? I watch general chat and see comments most nights from PvPers looking for anyone to come fight. So if ya have to travel to distant shards to even find a fight my question is, "How many people are really being affected by this change over all the shards?"
Or is it just a select few who like to complain alot? Not that I've ever seen complaining and whining in general chat by a PvPer...lol.

Secondly,

If there aren't alot of people PvPing on most shards, then how are these faction suits really being used? Perhaps people are really using faction suits for non-faction purposes and are now mad because suddenly all their easy elite equipment dropped off their templates because their real PvP rank went to 0?

It seems most people who are complaining really don't want to work for anything or somehow feel entitled to whatever they want. In my opinion they don't really engage or play in most aspects of the world of UO anyways. Maybe UO needs a story arc where all the artifacts of the world suddenly crumble?

Oh no...*gasp*...guess I can't fight anyone anymore! Everyone will have to whine and quit! Hell no! you adjust and move on because you enjoy the game!

Wow I can't even imagine how it was ever possible to PvP with found Bone armor, a weapon and Pots in the early days.....what a bunch of whiny PvPers these days!

 

[Merus]

Here is my take on the overall goal of what factions should be/do. The faction system should focus on providing and encouraging those who enjoy pvp to participate while providing ample restriction when it comes to risk/reward and balance.

As this relates to faction artis, here are a few thought:

1. Faction artifacts as designed are a disaster! First it pits members of you own faction avaunt each other for the right to wear top end gear. How our Devs ever thought that was a good design escapes me. I mean if there is going to be a competition to wear the gear should it at least be against you enemy instead of your ally? Second, by creating classes among faction player were some get superior gear it creates imbalance on the pvp field. Again, a flawed precept for pvp. PvP outcome should be based on template and strategy, not who has enough points to get the better artifacts.

2. By virtue of their faction status, faction member risk the penalty of stat loss when killed. The only real reward for that risk is the faction artifacts. Some will argue the also receive the benefit of pvp without murder counts, but realistically without faction artifact you would just see alot more reds killing at will. IMO there should be no rank requirements to wear faction gear. This provides the incentive to play as a faction member and risk stat loss, while supporting overall balance with regard to gear accessability.

3. Faction membership should be tied directly to Felucca activities. I disagree with the idea that faction members should loose those artifacts in Tram. Having to maintain two suits just becomes a hassle. I also disagree with making faction pvp across all facets. The Yew gate can be chaotic enough. I personally don't what to constantly be putting up with some of those shenanigans when I am playing a PvM character. This leaves the challenge of reserving the faction artifacts to those who actively participate in Fel activitIes. We need some sort of requirement like guarding a sigal or completing x number of champ spawns, etc. that faction members are required to complete in order to maintain faction membership. Whatever the requirement is, it should be sufficient enough to produce the likelyhood that they will encounter some pvp, regardless if they win or loose.

I think with a few tweaks like this would get those who want to pvp back into their suits and into the fight, while discouraging those who would join faction just to get the artifacts for use in tram. I believe it would also incease the pvp action over what it currently is because it would means those who are in factions on multiple shards will now have to do more than just pop into the Yew gate looking for a fight.

 

[Merus]

Please forgive any typos in the above, darn phone!

 

[Picus at the office]

I think alot of the comments here are from people who either didn't subsrcibe to the faction way of life or are just mean. Unless you have actually built, transfered and funded chars on other shards you cannot understant the pure level of annoyance this change made.

Factions, either on a single shard or multi, was about the pvping. It allowed a clear momentary event where a single side won the fight but at the same time it never truelly ended. Even in a single duel based fight it defined who won, there was no BS about who ended in stat and who didn't. The arties allowed people to join with a relative low cost even though everyone had to make arms, legs, gloves, gorget, jewels(for the most part), weapons and you had to bring your own boots, cloak and other clothing. It allowed relative poor players to join and with a few kills you could have all the same "advantages" everyone else had. It really brought the concept of the better skilled player back the field and actually reduced the reliance on specific items due to the fact that the prior mentioned items were standard for everyone.

 

[Nyses]

A couple of notes:

2. I know there are many people out there willing to help create suits for PvPers. I hear a lot of people YELLING that making the suits is going to be expensive and time consuming. Someone steps up and offers help and what? A whole lot of silence. So, either this is not that much of an issue, or people just want to wallow in self pity?

Actually, I don't think you really realize the issue here, when you say "Someone steps up and offers help and what? A whole lot of silence." We are not talking about slapping an OK suit together in a couple of hours here.

The kind of suits that these guys wear requires burning Dozens of Barbed kits or Val hammers, for a SINGLE Piece! The using a Forged Metal Artifact to enhance it with. Multiply that by a whole suit, then by a shard full of characters and finally by however may shards they play on. It is also not just the resources required for the suits, but there is still time involved in communicating back and forth with the person crafting it for you, that can take days for each characters suit.

Yes, they could deal with PvPing in just OK suits, but the point was that they already spent enormous amounts of time and money to craft the "perfect" suit, why would they want to start from scratch? If someone hacked your account and wiped all your characters out, would you want to start to rebuild, or would you just say screw it and start over in another game? Extreme example? perhaps. Would some people go, and some stay? Probably.

 

[Dan123The123Man]

No I'm not willing to take the help. Templates are built around suits. It's not about having to just swap out gear it's about grinding and skills also. I shouldn't be forced to stop using something I have earned and have been using during my play time. That's like me finally getting a castle spot on ATL then the devs step in and say well 15yrs ago castles were not meant to be placed on ATL we will be removing them next patch. Yes extreme but same concept.

I could be wrong and all, and I honestly stopped after this post here, due to the fact that these faction threads are starting to become alittle redundant.

Doesn't it say on the back of the package when you purchase this game that "Content is subject to change at any time"? I know on quite a bit of games it has that fancy little note. I'd be surprised if UO didn't have something along those lines printed in the terms of service or somewhere on the box once you purchase the game.

 

[LordDrago]

Actually, I don't think you really realize the issue here, when you say "Someone steps up and offers help and what? A whole lot of silence." We are not talking about slapping an OK suit together in a couple of hours here.

The kind of suits that these guys wear requires burning Dozens of Barbed kits or Val hammers, for a SINGLE Piece! The using a Forged Metal Artifact to enhance it with. Multiply that by a whole suit, then by a shard full of characters and finally by however may shards they play on. It is also not just the resources required for the suits, but there is still time involved in communicating back and forth with the person crafting it for you, that can take days for each characters suit.

Yes, they could deal with PvPing in just OK suits, but the point was that they already spent enormous amounts of time and money to craft the "perfect" suit, why would they want to start from scratch? If someone hacked your account and wiped all your characters out, would you want to start to rebuild, or would you just say screw it and start over in another game? Extreme example? perhaps. Would some people go, and some stay? Probably.

Well, if you need the "perfect suit" in order to PvP, then I guess your just screwed. And, even if you get the "perfect suit" using any artifacts, prepare to be screwed over and over again, as new content will be added to the game changing the factors going into your suit, probably at least once a year.

BAM - new ring is created.....screwed
BAM - new mod developed or old one altered....screwed
BAM - new weapon added....screwed
BAM - skill is nerfed.....screwed
BAM - Some formula used somewhere in the game is changed....screwed

As I stated, I am not much of a suit creator, but I do collect a lot of "stuff" running around, so if you need something from a collection, some imbuing ingredients, etc, I am still available. Of course, if you need the "perfect suit" in order to compete, feel free to remain silent. I think this will be my last post regarding trying to help those who have felt the might faction artifact nerf hammer. PM me here, or call out fro me on chessy gen chat and I will see what I can do.

 

[archite666]

Once again...

They didn't nerf the arties from everyone. They just took them from the average joe pvper and let the highest tier of pvpers use them.

One of our biggest complaints is that the faction arties are still being used, just by cheaters,gimps and members of guilds that can feed them points.

Thanks for that!

The entire system in factions is flawed now. Why is it if I get more kills, my guildies lose rank? Now they just want me to die so they can get their rank back, its crazy.

The system makes no sense.

 

[kelmo]

It never made sense... Keep it to one thread.