Hypothetical Exercise for Factioneers and Crafters

[Petra Fyde]

Just an intellectual 'what if' exercise - no flames please.

First Factioneers - what properties do you most need/have become used to having on your suit?

Second Crafters - Do you believe it is possible through a combination of crafting, re-forging, enhancing and imbuing to build such a suit? Give estimated cost in relic fragments, rare resources, colored leather/ore etc.

Just theoretical, please be honest about what is possible, don't make empty promises just because you won't be expected to fulfil them.

 

[Larisa]

Personally I think faction arties should never have been implemented. I am not a hard core faction player BUT to get *free* arties makes people lazy, in my honest opinion and leads to much QQ'ing.

I am still confused on the whole Imbuing/reforging thing but I think it would be very possible to build an awesome suit tailored to your needs with the tools we have now. Sure it might cost more then killing a few faction critters for silver, but at least it would be a permanent thing and you wouldn't have to worry about faction points/lvl/kills whatever and we wouldn't hear OMG YOU KILLED MY SUIT I HAVE NO FACTION POINTS!

Get a real suit, problem solved.

 

[archite666]

I have studied and become very familer with crafting and reforging. I have burned about 90 barbed kits on Atlantic. The problem that most people do now realise is that there is no contest between nonfaction suits and faction suits. A faction character will always have more mods period.

No offense but the fact that this thread exists is just another example of the disconnection between nonfaction and faction players. Now only a handful of players can run the suits we all were running.

You simply cannot make up the mods lost by not having access to things like faction: Orny, Crystalline ring, Folded steel.

 

[Quickblade]

You simply cannot make up the mods lost by not having access to things like faction: Orny, Crystalline ring, Folded steel.

This is it, it's all about the orny 3 MR, cristalline +20 magery , 3 FCR and Folded Steel mostly for the 25 DCI, nothing else in game can compete these 3.

 

[Bob the Merchant]

The crystalline ring is no longer needed. The developers added a -15 mage weapon to reforging and added SDI to a wider range of items.

To counter the lessened stats from faction to non faction items, equivalent modifiers were added with reforging. (defense chance, hit chance)

To lessen the need of LRC or LMC, the caps were upped to 10 and 25 respectively. (this made suit building MUCH easier for both dex/mage chars)

In other words, it is completely possible to make a non faction suit in today's game that will compete on ALL levels, including against factions WITH level 10 gear.

 

[Merus]

IMO it is less about the possibility of building a suit and more about the quick access at a relatively low cost. Let's face it, after 15 pvp is about the only thing that is exciting anymore (at least that is the way most faction players I know feel). We don't want to spend hours farmIng resources to rebuild suits that we have been using for the last two years... We want to get on and find someone to pvp with. With today's server population, that often means trying multiple shards. Resuiting multiple characters across multiple shards is a hassle to being able to enjoy the aspect of the game we enjoy. We can argue the broken system all day and night, but the simple fact is, the changes from this last patch ruined alot of carefully built suits and left a great number of players with no desire to try and rebuild them.

 

[Rupert Avery]

The issue for me is not that they were basically free Artifacts... the reason they are loves so much is not because they are super pieces compared to some you can get but its because they are well rounded in resists and mods. which helps build a balanced suit

 

[Lady Storm]

Petra I agree with you in point. the only thing i see in factions that has come to this day and age is the fact they have had the "arties" so freely that they have come to depend on them. I cant fault them on the want of such but I also look at the facts that they have things we normal players just cant get like candy a factions player use to get.
Faction players are spoilt rotten. Period. Yes the arfties made suits so well rounded.. why the hell do you think the factions bit was getting so skinny before the wipe... its not for lack of equipment... They couldnt beat eachother if both have the same equipment and skills. It got boring. 99% of all players I kow in factions quit cause it got boring!
Deal with it kiddies. Get out there and make up a suit we crafters, imbuers and such can make you... hunt up what you think you need in arties.. dont tell me enough of you cant go find crimi's or the rings... they do drop.
So your not uo gods at war big deal be the real warrior and tell us what you need and lets get on with this.

 

[Quickblade]

To counter the lessened stats from faction to non faction items, equivalent modifiers were added with reforging. (defense chance, hit chance)

So you're telling me that you're gonna waste 5 mods ( 5 DCI per piece from reforging) to counter the -25 DCi loss from Folded steel, or 2 mods ( 5 DCi each ) to counter the -10 DCi loss if you go from faction Folded Steel to normal Folded Steel. 2 Mods that could be 20 lrc or 8 lmc each that you will loose by putting 5 dci instead , its not negligible ...

 

[Winker]

I have left factions and made suits that are better than the ones i had in factions through re-forging, enhancing and imbuing. I cant tell you how much i used or spent as i didnt count, i am resource rich so its just time and effort. TBH it cost little time or effort to remake my suits for 4 characters that were in factions.

 

[garillo]

I craft extensively and can tell you that a very solid suit can be put together through imbuing and reforging. For less than 100 mil you can COMPLETELY gear a character out with a suit that will last for the rest of your playtime. This isn't a slither suit, but it works just as fine. It'll be sitting at 55-65 dci (temp decides this, because a good suit is built around the template), hci capped, plenty of regens, 25/25 HPI, Increases on every piece, whatever etc.

The things people are complaining about faction-wise are losing those extra mods, like night sight, more str/dex, higher dci, etc that go above and beyond the PvM corresponding piece. \

Your crafter is going to spend from 4 to 6 WORK HOURS burning for pieces with the right resists, and if anything that is conservative because reforging is another lottery of its own that you have to play after defeating the resist lottery. This leaves a crafter sitting around matching up pieces on their spreadsheets, replugging pieces, etc for a majority of the suit building process. It is very do-able, but people do not want to pay for the HOURS a crafter puts into a perfect suit. They want to offer prices that barely match the imbuing mats for the piece. That is what they are upset about.

 

[Bob the Merchant]

So you're telling me that you're gonna waste 5 mods ( 5 DCI per piece from reforging) to counter the -25 DCi loss from Folded steel, or 2 mods ( 5 DCi each ) to counter the -10 DCi loss if you go from faction Folded Steel to normal Folded Steel. 2 Mods that could be 20 lrc or 8 lmc each that you will loose by putting 5 dci instead , its not negligible ...

*shrugs*

Perhaps you are thinking too hard. The cap on lrc is 25 and lmc 10. I can make a suit with 4 lmc lrc pieces that give me 100 lrc 40 lmc. That frees up the need to use an orny, giving you a lot of leeway on jewels, your talisman, ect.

 

[Tina Small]

The following list might be helpful for crafters/merchants/hunters who want to help out or maybe make some gold filling a need. It lists the properties and sources of the nonfaction versions of the artifacts, as well as the property that's modified or added to the faction version of the artifacts. If anyone spots errors in the list, please let me know and I'll fix them.

Rank 10 only

• Mace and Shield Reading Glasses - 30% Hit Lower Defense, +10 Strength, +5 Dex, resists of 25%/10%/10%/10%/10%. Faction version also has 10% Damage Increase. The nonfaction version comes from the Britain Public Library community collection. (800,000 points from the Warrior representative, who only takes gold, bucklers, and battle axes. 800,000 points = 12 million gold, 9877 bucklers, or 9877 battle axes. Must complete a quest that requires going to Ilshenar before you can donate at the Library.)
• Ornament of the Magician - 2 Faster Casting, 3 Faster Cast Recovery, 10% Lower Mana Cost, 20% LRC, 15% Energy Resist. Faction version also has 3 Mana Regeneration. The nonfaction version is a Doom artifact that may land in your pack or your bankbox and can be acquired by killing Dark Fathers, Darknight Creepers, Fleshrenderers, Impalers, Shadow Knights, and Abyssmal Horrors.
• Inquisitor's Resolution - 3 Faster Cast Recovery, 8% LMC, Mage Armor. Non-faction version has resists of 5%/3%/22%/3%/17%; faction version's resists are 10%/10%/20%/10%/10%. The nonfaction version is a stealable Doom artifact that might spawn once per month, if that.

Ranks 9 and 10

• Clainin's Spellbook - Blessed (not sure if blessed on Siege/Mugen), Spell Channeling, 3 Mana Regeneration, 80 Luck, 15% LRC. Faction version also has 10% Lower Mana Cost. The nonfaction version comes from the Vesper Museum community collection and costs 800,000 points, which are obtained by donating either 12 million gold; 400,000 hinges, scorps, and/or draw knives; 200,000 jointing planes, moulding planes, or smoothing planes; 800,000 plain boards, 266,667 oak boards, 133,334 ash boards, 88,889 yew boards, 66,667 heartwood boards, 33,334 heartwood boards, or 16,667 frostwood boards.
• Crystalline Ring - +20 Magery, +20 Focus, 5 Hit Point Regeneration, 3 Mana Regeneration, 20% Spell Damage Increase. Faction version also has FCR 3. The nonfaction version is a rare drop found on the corpse of the Shimmering Effusion peerless.
• Folded Steel Reading Glasses - +8 Strength, Night Sight, 15% Defense Chance Increase, and Resists of 20%/10%/10%/10%/10%. The faction version has 25% Defense Chance Increase. The nonfaction version comes from the Britain Public Library community collection. (800,000 points from the Samurai representative, who only takes gold, books of bushido, bokutos, daishos, and no-dachi. 800,000 points = 12 million gold, 26,667 books of bushido, 29,630 no-dachi, 36,364 daisho, or 100,000 bokutos. Must complete a quest that requires going to Ilshenar before you can donate at the Library.)
• Order Shield - Spell Channeling, 80 Luck, 15% Hit Chance Increase, 15% Defense Chance Increase, -1 Faster Casting, 1% Physical resist. The faction version does not have the -1 Faster Casting penalty. The nonfaction version comes from the Vesper Museum community collection. The nonfaction version comes from the Vesper Museum community collection and costs 800,000 points, which are obtained by donating either 12 million gold; 400,000 hinges, scorps, and/or draw knives; 200,000 jointing planes, moulding planes, or smoothing planes; 800,000 plain boards, 266,667 oak boards, 133,334 ash boards, 88,889 yew boards, 66,667 heartwood boards, 33,334 heartwood boards, or 16,667 frostwood boards.

Ranks 7 through 10

• A Primer on Arms Damage Removal - +1 Strength, 2 Hit Point Regeneration, 20% Damage Increase. The faction version also has 10% Hit Chance Increase. The nonfaction version comes from the Britain Public Library community collection. (550,000 points from any Library representative. 550,000 points = 8,250,000 gold or varying quantities of other items/materials, depending on which representative you donate to. Must complete a quest that requires going to Ilshenar before you can donate at the Library.)
• Spirit of the Totem - +20 Strength, 15% Reflect Physical Damage, 15% Hit Chance Increase. The nonfaction version has resists of 20%/3%/8%/4%/4%; the faction version has resists of 20%/10%/10%/10%/10%. The nonfaction version is a Doom artifact that may land in your pack or your bankbox and can be acquired by killing Dark Fathers, Darknight Creepers, Fleshrenderers, Impalers, Shadow Knights, and Abyssmal Horrors.
• Tome of Lost Knowledge - Blessed (might not be blessed on Siege or Mugen?), +15 Magery, +8 Intelligence, 15% Spell Damage Increase, 15% Lower Mana Cost. The faction version also has 3 Mana Regeneration. The nonfaction version is a major artifact from the Treasures of Tokuno and is obtained by turning in 10 minor Tokuno artifacts to Ihara Soko, an NPC found in Zento. The minor Tokuno artifacts were backpack/bankbox drops obtained by slaying monsters in Tokuno during Treasures of Tokuno events.
• Wizard’s Crystal Reading Glasses - 10 Mana Increase, 3 Mana Regeneration, 15% Spell Damage Increase. The nonfaction version has resists of 5%/5%/5%/5%/5%; the faction version has resists of 10%/10%/10%/10%/10%. The nonfaction version comes from the Britain Public Library community collection. (800,000 points from the Mage representative, who only takes gold, blank scrolls, spellbooks, and magery reagents (no necro or mysticism reagents!). 800,000 points = 12 million gold, 800,000 blank scrolls, 80,000 spellbooks, or 800,000 reagents.)

Ranks 4 through 10

• Crimson Cincture - +5 Dexterity, 10 Hit Point Increase, 2 Hit Point Regeneration. The faction version has +10 Dexterity. The nonfaction version may drop on the corpses of Mondain's Legacy peerless.
• Heart of the Lion - 95 Luck, 15% Defense Chance Increase, 100% Lower Requirements, Mage Armor. The nonfaction version has resists of 15%/10%/10%/10%/10%; the faction version has resists of 20%/15%/15%/15%/15% resists. The nonfaction version is an artifact that may drop in your backpack/bankbox after killing paragons in Ilshenar.
• Hunter’s Headdress (with 10%, 10%, 15%, 10%, 10% resists) - +20 Archery +8 Dexterity, Night Sight, 15% Hit Chance Increase. The nonfaction version has resists of 2%/6%/23%/1%/7%; the faction version has resists of 10%/10%/15%/10%/10%. The nonfaction version is a Doom artifact that may land in your pack or your bankbox and can be acquired by killing Dark Fathers, Darknight Creepers, Fleshrenderers, Impalers, Shadow Knights, and Abyssmal Horrors.
• Ring of the Vile - +8 Dexterity, 6 Stamina Regeneration, 15% Hit Chance Increase, 20% Poison resist. The faction version has 25% Hit Chance Increase. The nonfaction version is a Doom artifact that may land in your pack or your bankbox and can be acquired by killing Dark Fathers, Darknight Creepers, Fleshrenderers, Impalers, Shadow Knights, and Abyssmal Horrors.

All Ranks

• Fey Leggings - 6 Hit Point Increase, 20% Defense Chance Increase, Mage Armor. The nonfaction version has resists of 14%/9%/9%/1%/17%. The faction version has resists of 15%/11%/10%/4%/22%. Note: Some nonfaction versions can only be worn by elves. The nonfaction version may be obtained by killing named Mondains Legacy monsters (will drop in backpack/bankbox), or may sometimes drop on the corpses of Mondains Legacy peerless. (I believe the versions without the "elves only" property only drop on the corpses of ML peerless??)
• Kasa of the Raj-In - 12% Spell Damage Increase, resists of 12%/17%/21%/17%/17%. The faction version also has 10% Defense Chance Increase. The nonfaction version is a major artifact from the Treasures of Tokuno and is obtained by turning in 10 minor Tokuno artifacts to Ihara Soko, an NPC found in Zento. The minor Tokuno artifacts were backpack/bankbox drops obtained by slaying monsters in Tokuno during Treasures of Tokuno events.
• Rune Beetle Carapace - 10 Mana Increase, 3 Mana Regeneration, 15% Lower Mana Cost, Mage Armor. The nonfaction version has resists of 5%/3%/14%/3%/14%; the faction version has resists of 8%/6%/17%/6%/17%. The nonfaction version is a major artifact from the Treasures of Tokuno and is obtained by turning in 10 minor Tokuno artifacts to Ihara Soko, an NPC found in Zento. The minor Tokuno artifacts were backpack/bankbox drops obtained by slaying monsters in Tokuno during Treasures of Tokuno events.
• Stormgrip - +8 Intelligence, 125 Luck, 25% Damage Increase, resists of 10%/4%/18%/3%/18%. The faction version also has 10% HCI. The nonfaction version is a major artifact from the Treasures of Tokuno and is obtained by turning in 10 minor Tokuno artifacts to Ihara Soko, an NPC found in Zento. The minor Tokuno artifacts were backpack/bankbox drops obtained by slaying monsters in Tokuno during Treasures of Tokuno events.

 

[Lady Storm]

Thank you Tina.
It should help alot.

 

[Tina Small]

Can anyone please clarify, by type of character (e.g., mage, dexxer, archer, etc.), which faction artifacts were used the most before the change? It would also be helpful to know if people would settle for the nonfaction version of the artifacts or think it would be cheaper/easier (??) to completely revamp their suits. If yes, what kind of gear are you really looking for that could be crafted or looted and enhanced? Which crafting ingredients, which crafting tools could people stock up and sell/donate to make the job easier?

Please don't flame me, I'm just trying to help, as is Petra. Bottom line, what can other players do to help keep other people around and playing without the use of faction artifacts?

Edited to add: And which shards do you need help on for rebuilding your suits?

 

[Petra Fyde]

That's why I asked what properties were needed on a suit. Totals, not per item. We know we can't craft a faction orni, but can we match the overall suit totals? That's yet to be seen. We can include things like nocturne earrings for nightsight - that's one property that doesn't have to be squeezed onto the 6 main pieces.

Could guilds get together and chain mini champ spawns to gather essences? Many hands make light work, and we so often claim to be a community. Time to prove it?

 

[Merus]

I will toss out some numbers for a mage:

Basics: 2/6 casting total, all 70 resist, 100 lrc, 40 lmc, 70 dci, +25 hitpoint, + 25 mana, 10 mr, +15/20 magery, + up to 30 sdi, + up to 50 ep
Extra: damage eater, soul charge, casting focus, resonance

When I build my suit, the goal is to get as close to everything on the basic list as possible, looking for pieces that might also include some of those extra properties as well.

Edit: please note that in most cases at least one hand needs to remain free.

 

[LordDrago]

Petra I agree with you in point. the only thing i see in factions that has come to this day and age is the fact they have had the "arties" so freely that they have come to depend on them. I cant fault them on the want of such but I also look at the facts that they have things we normal players just cant get like candy a factions player use to get.
Faction players are spoilt rotten. Period. Yes the arfties made suits so well rounded.. why the hell do you think the factions bit was getting so skinny before the wipe... its not for lack of equipment... They couldnt beat eachother if both have the same equipment and skills. It got boring. 99% of all players I kow in factions quit cause it got boring!
Deal with it kiddies. Get out there and make up a suit we crafters, imbuers and such can make you... hunt up what you think you need in arties.. dont tell me enough of you cant go find crimi's or the rings... they do drop.
So your not uo gods at war big deal be the real warrior and tell us what you need and lets get on with this.

I have made the offer to help any factioner on Chessy to the best of my ability. I have ingredients and pts saved up and am willing to help (I have a bit of gold, but very little, so I probably cannot help a whole lot there, bit I will). I posted my willingness to help on one of the UHALL threads earlier on. I also made a post ont he Chessy forum. So far, I have helped 1 person with 1 item. (I also help out my friends in game, so to be honest, I helped one of them out as well, with some ingredients)

I am not saying that I have everything that a player would need (because I do not), and I most likely could not build a suit to your taste (If i could, I would have better suits myself - Petra: I have 1 character with an all 70's suit...and it is the virtue armor LOL...so in that regards I am like Petra), so you, in all likelyhood, will want someone else to actually fabricate the suit/weapon/whatever. But I tell you this, if you want help, just ask. I am no uber farmer, but I get a fair amount of imbuing ingredients, BoDS, and whatnot. Message me in here, or look for me in game.

I bet if you looked, there are people on every shard willing to help factioners "get back into the fight"

Message me if you want help on Chessy.

Petra - Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but I have seen several people throwing in the towel recently over this issue, and I am sure some of them play on my shard, but so far have been unwilling to ask for help.

 

[Mirt]

Petra I have made the same offer for Chesy, only I will not do the suit buying for folks. If you need some money sell some scrolls and I will help design a suit for you on any shard that there is. I will come to that shard and help or find someone to do the whole thing. I think what the issue really boils down to is that the faction arties are more powerful and for the most part you are going to get more out of them. Of course with the fact that now most cannot use them there is a good chance that having a steped down suit will not be the end of the world for anyone and they should be able to compete. Of course this is going to involve interacting with the community and spending money and participating in an aspect of the game that they are unfamiliar with. Of course stat scrolls still sell well on Chesy as do many of the pinks and many 120s so money shouldn't be impossible to come by. I am sure some folks with arties might be willing to set up and trade some arties for scrolls.

 

[LordDrago]

Petra I have made the same offer for Chesy, only I will not do the suit buying for folks. If you need some money sell some scrolls and I will help design a suit for you on any shard that there is. I will come to that shard and help or find someone to do the whole thing. I think what the issue really boils down to is that the faction arties are more powerful and for the most part you are going to get more out of them. Of course with the fact that now most cannot use them there is a good chance that having a steped down suit will not be the end of the world for anyone and they should be able to compete. Of course this is going to involve interacting with the community and spending money and participating in an aspect of the game that they are unfamiliar with. Of course stat scrolls still sell well on Chesy as do many of the pinks and many 120s so money shouldn't be impossible to come by. I am sure some folks with arties might be willing to set up and trade some arties for scrolls.

Sorry Mirt...I believe you were 1st in offering help and I just jumped on the bandwagon. So Mirt deserves 100% credit for offering to help people who actually want help, and not just to complain on the forums. I am not sure if he has had any better response than I have had, but I hope he has, as I do not believe this "bump in the road" should cause anyone to quit, especially as they, in all probability, do not need to if they made an effort and took up some of the nice offers of Mirt and others.

 

[Mirt]

Sorry Mirt...I believe you were 1st in offering help and I just jumped on the bandwagon. So Mirt deserves 100% credit for offering to help people who actually want help, and not just to complain on the forums. I am not sure if he has had any better response than I have had, but I hope he has, as I do not believe this "bump in the road" should cause anyone to quit, especially as they, in all probability, do not need to if they made an effort and took up some of the nice offers of Mirt and others.

Sadly not one person has reached out to me. But the more the merrier even if you do come from officer country.

 

[Tina Small]

I will toss out some numbers for a mage:

Basics: 2/6 casting total, all 70 resist, 100 lrc, 40 lmc, 70 dci, +25 hitpoint, + 25 mana, 10 mr, +15/20 magery, + up to 30 sdi, + up to 50 ep
Extra: damage eater, soul charge, casting focus, resonance

When I build my suit, the goal is to get as close to everything on the basic list as possible, looking for pieces that might also include some of those extra properties as well.

Edit: please note that in most cases at least one hand needs to remain free.

Thanks, Merus. This is very helpful.

 

[Viper09]

A bit off topic, but I see people offering help quite often with armor and and even with a little team work from guilds it is highly possible to get great gear replaced without much trouble. However most are not asking for help and leaving due to the change in ranks. I wonder if those people who are leaving were already not happy with the game and were simply looking for a reason to quit, the recent change giving them that reason.

 

[Merus]

A bit off topic, but I see people offering help quite often with armor and and even with a little team work from guilds it is highly possible to get great gear replaced without much trouble. However most are not asking for help and leaving due to the change in ranks. I wonder if those people who are leaving were already not happy with the game and were simply looking for a reason to quit, the recent change giving them that reason.

It isn't quite as easy as you make it sounds, particularly when you are not talking about your home shard. Consider ... A guild of six faction mages on a shard other than their home shard... Say maybe Napa. All the mages use faction folded steal and a faction orni. If they had great suits with 70+ dci, they can probably each raise 12 mill to by some none faction glasses and make do with a little less dci. However, replacing the orni is an entirely different matter. Good luck finding 6 non-faction orni for sale. Your odds are equally as dismal to go chain doom on a pvp Mage without your orni so going out and farming to replace your faction orni with a non-faction version is out. All you are really left with is trying to find a crafter to imbue something for you, but that means replacing both a ring and a braclet in order to get your 2 fc back. It will probably also require you to redo an armor piece or two to make up the lost resist or give up some substantial mods from your jewelry.

All of this said, if there were never any faction artis the initial work to build the suit would have been done. But because most faction players relied on those items when they did character transfers, you are now asking for alot of work or sacrifice just to continue playing. Furthermore, if you are going to go to all the effort to replace and rebuild suits without faction artis, many will choose to quit factions and avoid stat loss.

 

[Viper09]

It isn't quite as easy as you make it sounds, particularly when you are not talking about your home shard. Consider ... A guild of six faction mages on a shard other than their home shard... Say maybe Napa. All the mages use faction folded steal and a faction orni. If they had great suits with 70+ dci, they can probably each raise 12 mill to by some none faction glasses and make do with a little less dci. However, replacing the orni is an entirely different matter. Good luck finding 6 non-faction orni for sale. Your odds are equally as dismal to go chain doom on a pvp Mage without your orni so going out and farming to replace your faction orni with a non-faction version is out. All you are really left with is trying to find a crafter to imbue something for you, but that means replacing both a ring and a braclet in order to get your 2 fc back. It will probably also require you to redo an armor piece or two to make up the lost resist or give up some substantial mods from your jewelry.

All of this said, if there were never any faction artis the initial work to build the suit would have been done. But because most faction players relied on those items when they did character transfers, you are now asking for alot of work or sacrifice just to continue playing. Furthermore, if you are going to go to all the effort to replace and rebuild suits without faction artis, many will choose to quit factions and avoid stat loss.

Without taking this thread off I will simply say I understand. Was merely chiming off Mirt and LordDrago and thinking out-loud about why only one person actually took their offer as opposed to leaving this game.

 

[Obsidian]

IMO, the issue is not with suit pieces. It is easy access to the uncraftables:

- Crimson Cincture
- Primer on Arms
- Folded Steel Glasses
- Mace and Shield Glasses
- Ornament of the Magician

The crimmy at rank four is huge. That is a 15M gold item on most shards and cannot be replaced by crafting. The Primer has 10 HCI and can only equalled by the Conjurer's Trinket which is no longer available except by purchase from another player for 15-20M gold. The glasses are only available by community collection and through normal play it would take years to get one pair of those glasses. The best way is to pay 12M gold. You cannot craft 25 DCI on a helm (that is 5x the crafting cap) and you cannot craft HLD on any armor. The Orny is the only way to get FC2 on a jewel. It costs between 15-20M. Now you don't need all of those, but that's about 50M required that cannot be crafted per character.

Now, if they made half aprons imbuable, made a FC2 jewelry to drop in Shame, and gave a way to imbue more DCI and HLD on armor then we'd be able to build equivalent suits without faction arties.

 

[Tina Small]

I will toss out some numbers for a mage:

Basics: 2/6 casting total, all 70 resist, 100 lrc, 40 lmc, 70 dci, +25 hitpoint, + 25 mana, 10 mr, +15/20 magery, + up to 30 sdi, + up to 50 ep
Extra: damage eater, soul charge, casting focus, resonance

When I build my suit, the goal is to get as close to everything on the basic list as possible, looking for pieces that might also include some of those extra properties as well.

Edit: please note that in most cases at least one hand needs to remain free.

So, just looking at basic ingredients (other than regular gems) that might be needed for imbuing, the most helpful ingredients for building mage suits at a soul forge would probably be:

Essence of Order (for LMC)
Essence of Singularity (for DCI)
Essence of Achievement (for FC)
Essence of Diligence (for FCR)
Faery Dust (for LRC)
Arcanic Rune Stone OR Crystal Shards and Power Crystals (for Mage Weapon)
Abyssal Cloth OR Crystalline Blackrock/Cloth (for Mage Armor)
Crushed Glass OR Blue Diamonds/Glass Swords/Sand (for Enhanced Potions)
Crystal Shards (for Spell Damage Increase)
Crystalline Blackrock (for Skill property on jewelry)
Seeds of Renewal (for mana regen)
Bottle of Ichor OR Darkglow Poison/Spiders Silk/Luminescent Fungi (for Nightsight)
Silver Snake Skin (for Spell Channeling)
Luminescent Fungi (for mana increase and hit point increase)
Boura Pelts (for resists)
Turquoise (for Intelligence Bonus)
Fire Ruby (for Strength Bonus)
Powder of Fortification (for increasing an items durability before imbuing)
Whetstone (for removing Damage Increase from a weapon before imbuing it)
Forged Metal Tool (to guarantee the success of an enhancement attempt)

Anything missing?

And could anyone give some information like Merus did for dexxers and also for archers so we can assemble some lists of useful imbuing ingredients for making them too?

 

[garillo]

70 dci is nice, and the hardcap, but this is one of the big things people are upset about. 45 is the cap, anything over is applied when HLD comes into play.

 

[Merus]

70 dci is nice, and the hardcap, but this is one of the big things people are upset about. 45 is the cap, anything over is applied when HLD comes into play.

I agree, while DCI at 45 is not typically to hard to get on a mage suit by crafting, it can be tough (not impossible, just expensive) to get without faction artis.

 

[garillo]

@ Tina, a whetstone and a forge tool charge is required for a mage weapon bokuto (which seems to be the best mage weapon craftable by non runic means atm) on a casting template.

 

[Merus]

So, just looking at basic ingredients (other than regular gems) that might be needed for imbuing, the most helpful ingredients for building mage suits at a soul forge would probably be:

Anything missing?

Two very common crafting essentials that I use are powder of fort and the forged metal to enhance after I imbue.

 

[garillo]

I agree, while DCI at 45 is not typically to hard to get on a mage suit by crafting, it can be tough (not impossible, just expensive) to get without faction artis.

People seem to have a problem accepting a "less than perfect" suit because even with reforging 60-65 dci is max on a non slither suit. (throw the slither in and you can hit 70) You can, for the most part, still attain close regens, increases, DI/SDI, lmc etc. The problem is the DCI/FC/resists pvpers are losing that give them those 1-2 extra mod slots on a suit. With the faction system, and how it previously was, it was very easy to make a PERFECT suit and for a fraction of the cost/time it took to farm the weaker PvM corresponding cornerstone pieces. This made it more EFFICIENT time and money wise to gear through factions, thus leading to its widespread exploitation.

Yes, I am aware it sucks to have to make and shell out money to re-gear multiple toons, and it is NOT cheap for a well rounded pvp suit. I do not agree with how they implemented the broken system for so long that many people built small armies around it, and now they are left high and dry! However, it's a one time thing. Drop the money and it will last you forever. Who cares if you have to share a crimmy between a few toons on the same account. You can't play them at the same time, what does it matter? This isn't WoW, you will not fall out of the gear loop if you quit for a few months, and with the introduction of reforging now is the time to make your new suits anyways. Pay your crafters.

Only people with limited crafting knowledge can argue this.

 

[Tina Small]

Thanks, guys. I'll add them to the list. Now if someone could give some info for dexxer and archer suits!

 

[garillo]

LMC, Stam Inc, Mana Inc, Mana regen, dci/hci. For an upper tier dexxer suit, you'll be running the mace and shield glasses and glad collar as base pieces.

 

[Kage]

IMO it is less about the possibility of building a suit and more about the quick access at a relatively low cost. Let's face it, after 15 pvp is about the only thing that is exciting anymore (at least that is the way most faction players I know feel). We don't want to spend hours farmIng resources to rebuild suits that we have been using for the last two years... We want to get on and find someone to pvp with. With today's server population, that often means trying multiple shards. Resuiting multiple characters across multiple shards is a hassle to being able to enjoy the aspect of the game we enjoy. We can argue the broken system all day and night, but the simple fact is, the changes from this last patch ruined alot of carefully built suits and left a great number of players with no desire to try and rebuild them.

This guy gets it ^

 

[archite666]

In other words, it is completely possible to make a non faction suit in today's game that will compete on ALL levels, including against factions WITH level 10 gear.

*Facepalm* at the people in this thread.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

It is impossible to create a suit that is equal to factions. I have spent hundreds of millions of gold on my suit. I am an expert when it comes to crafting and reforging. I'v spent hours on test center figuring out the best way to get overcapped gear. I have burned over 100 barbed kits now on my gear and still I am short when it comes to my old faction suit.

This is pvp we are talking about, don't tell me you can make a similar suit with a few less mods, 1 mod is 1 mod. In pvp we strife for the perfect build because it gives us that much more of an advantage.

Heres a little exercise... Here is the minimum any GOOD pvp mage is going to want:

- Close to all 70s
- 100 lrc
- 40 lmc
- 15 sdi
- 18 HPR
- 16-18 MR
- 70 DCI
- Damage eater >12%
- 25 HPI
- 15 mage wep
- +15 magery

Now with 100 barbed kits, hours of crafting, Buying a crimson cinture, an Orny, A SLITHER, a -15 mage wep bokuto, various little artifacts, I have gotten close to this. However, with a few pieces of faction gear I could make something even better.

It is not a matter of reworking our suits, its a matter of not being able to achieve a certain level of efficiency as we once were able. Any one who says we just too lazy to rebuild our suits, does not know what they are talking about either when it comes to crafting or pvp.

 

[Mirt]

*Facepalm* at the people in this thread.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

It is impossible to create a suit that is equal to factions. I have spent hundreds of millions of gold on my suit. I am an expert when it comes to crafting and reforging. I'v spent hours on test center figuring out the best way to get overcapped gear. I have burned over 100 barbed kits now on my gear and still I am short when it comes to my old faction suit.

This is pvp we are talking about, don't tell me you can make a similar suit with a few less mods, 1 mod is 1 mod. In pvp we strife for the perfect build because it gives us that much more of an advantage.

Heres a little exercise... Here is the minimum any GOOD pvp mage is going to want:

- Close to all 70s
- 100 lrc
- 40 lmc
- 15 sdi
- 18 HPR
- 16-18 MR
- 70 DCI
- Damage eater >12%
- 25 HPI
- 15 mage wep
- +15 magery

Now with 100 barbed kits, hours of crafting, Buying a crimson cinture, an Orny, A SLITHER, a -15 mage wep bokuto, various little artifacts, I have gotten close to this. However, with a few pieces of faction gear I could make something even better.

It is not a matter of reworking our suits, its a matter of not being able to achieve a certain level of efficiency as we once were able. Any one who says we just too lazy to rebuild our suits, does not know what they are talking about either when it comes to crafting or pvp.

I have been able to make suits without faction artifacts for my chars that are quiet good and can keep me in the fight. So if your saying that without more powerful arties you cannot pvp you are flat out wrong. You might not have the most powerful suit or something way over the caps but it can still be done. I know because I have done it. None of my suits came anywhere near 200 million either. Now you might have to make some trade offs but so is everyone. Maybe you might have to dump the mage weapon for a bit a use older style mage tactics. Maybe you will not be at 70 DCI. But if anything this will add in more skill to pvp as gear mods are being taken away. I have seen many people say that is what they want. Also as I have said before if your not in favor of scrolls in trammel you should not be in favor of faction arties either. Nobodys play sytle is the end all be all and everyone should have to be in the same economy. This means that just as those that don't want to brave fel have to buy scrolls from those in fel those that don't want to deal with pvm have to buy arties from those in trammel. It becomes a two way street.

 

[Bob the Merchant]

*Facepalm* at the people in this thread.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

It is impossible to create a suit that is equal to factions. I have spent hundreds of millions of gold on my suit. I am an expert when it comes to crafting and reforging. I'v spent hours on test center figuring out the best way to get overcapped gear. I have burned over 100 barbed kits now on my gear and still I am short when it comes to my old faction suit.

This is pvp we are talking about, don't tell me you can make a similar suit with a few less mods, 1 mod is 1 mod. In pvp we strife for the perfect build because it gives us that much more of an advantage.

Heres a little exercise... Here is the minimum any GOOD pvp mage is going to want:

- Close to all 70s
- 100 lrc
- 40 lmc
- 15 sdi
- 18 HPR
- 16-18 MR
- 70 DCI
- Damage eater >12%
- 25 HPI
- 15 mage wep
- +15 magery

Now with 100 barbed kits, hours of crafting, Buying a crimson cinture, an Orny, A SLITHER, a -15 mage wep bokuto, various little artifacts, I have gotten close to this. However, with a few pieces of faction gear I could make something even better.

It is not a matter of reworking our suits, its a matter of not being able to achieve a certain level of efficiency as we once were able. Any one who says we just too lazy to rebuild our suits, does not know what they are talking about either when it comes to crafting or pvp.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I already have that suit. Non factions even. Granted it doesn't have a crystalline, but there is no substitute for 50 EP.

My second suit?
100 lrc
40 lmc
30 sdi
6 hpr
12 MR
50 dci (can get 15 dmg eater by dropping one peice with 5 dci)
45 hci
12 casting focus
25 hpi
19 int bonus
50 ep
2/6 casting.

Mind you, this suit is WITHOUT A WEAPON.

Now please stop calling other people wrong and get with the program. I would imagine that if you removed that *impossible* roadblock from your process you might actually get somewhere.

Also, I would take 50 ep over an extra 5hpr anyday.

 

[PJay]

*Facepalm* at the people in this thread.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

It is impossible to create a suit that is equal to factions. I have spent hundreds of millions of gold on my suit. I am an expert when it comes to crafting and reforging. I'v spent hours on test center figuring out the best way to get overcapped gear. I have burned over 100 barbed kits now on my gear and still I am short when it comes to my old faction suit.

This is pvp we are talking about, don't tell me you can make a similar suit with a few less mods, 1 mod is 1 mod. In pvp we strife for the perfect build because it gives us that much more of an advantage.

Heres a little exercise... Here is the minimum any GOOD pvp mage is going to want:

- Close to all 70s
- 100 lrc
- 40 lmc
- 15 sdi
- 18 HPR
- 16-18 MR
- 70 DCI
- Damage eater >12%
- 25 HPI
- 15 mage wep
- +15 magery

Now with 100 barbed kits, hours of crafting, Buying a crimson cinture, an Orny, A SLITHER, a -15 mage wep bokuto, various little artifacts, I have gotten close to this. However, with a few pieces of faction gear I could make something even better.

It is not a matter of reworking our suits, its a matter of not being able to achieve a certain level of efficiency as we once were able. Any one who says we just too lazy to rebuild our suits, does not know what they are talking about either when it comes to crafting or pvp.

Whoever reads this and wants to take it up as a challenge his figures are incorrect they are not minimum figures are nearer to maximum.

 

[PJay]

Im not even sure why this post has been created is it for the trammies because they lost their arties??

I also could take this as an attempt at masking the real issue with factions which is the problem with the ranking system and competition with your own faction.

 

[Mirt]

Im not even sure why this post has been created is it for the trammies because they lost their arties??

I also could take this as an attempt at masking the real issue with factions which is the problem with the ranking system and competition with your own faction.

It was an attempt to get those of us offering to help a place to discuss it but also for folks to post what they thought they needed.

 

[Driven Insane]

Man these threads are getting so old.

I wish the Devs would just put an ATM machine in front of every Faction base and anyone in that faction can get whatever Arti they want provided they are somewhat active and have killed someone at some point in the last 15 years.

And at the same time, just change/add the OPed Artis to Doom so Trammies can grind for them.

Problem solved.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Im not even sure why this post has been created is it for the trammies because they lost their arties??

I also could take this as an attempt at masking the real issue with factions which is the problem with the ranking system and competition with your own faction.

It was made in the mistaken belief that players could help. I have been proved monumentally wrong in my good intentions.