Unattended Scripters

[Warpig Inc]

The dirty word DECAY. Make quest or turn ins have a decay of value after doing to much in a period of time. And further grinding script gets to zero. Doing a grind to long a player turns GREY, even in tram set. Your playing the game and can run or defend yourself or your meat.

Those that really play the game would have no issue with the above. If you gathered your own boards and are doing the stool quest. Only takes a few hours before your sanity is tested. So most honest players will find something else to do after three hours. Let the unattend do something for nothing or turn grey for on the spot corrections.

 

[Thunderz]

Pardon me if I don't comprehend the situation correctly, but it seems to me a partial cure would be to limit the training ability on free accounts. If free accounts were limited to, say, 70 skill in any specialty, then at least the free accounts would not be contributing to the scripting problem.

The problem isn't trial accounts as there was a huge penalty put on them a few years back so they cant do bods [or even open a bod book] cant collect bods, can only get normal resources like wood and iron, cant get gems and loads of other things that make it so the scripter's have to actually pay for an account.

Thunderz

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Trial accounts already cannot mine colored ore or special gems and cannot jack rare wood either or the rare drops from trees.

The scripting isn't being done on trial accounts these days. The necessary skills can be trained up in a day or two and off ya go. The scripters obviously aren't using their main accounts but they are using paid for accounts.

What I find hilarious is when some dumbass posts pictures or other game related stuff here on Stratics and then cross-posts the same stuff, with a different screenname of course, on a scripter website. Hell I've even seen a few screennames that were the same as their Stratics one.

I know for sure, due to their own postings, of at least three big, expensive Luna houses whose owner posts on scripter websites. I've even read about them bragging about how much gold they've made with fishing quests and other stuff.

 

[MalagAste]

The problem isn't trial accounts as there was a huge penalty put on them a few years back so they cant do bods [or even open a bod book] cant collect bods, can only get normal resources like wood and iron, cant get gems and loads of other things that make it so the scripter's have to actually pay for an account.

Thunderz

Which is absolutely as it should be.

Scripting bots hurt everyone. Folk may not think that they do but they do. When I was "new" to the game many a time you could find players actually SEARCHING for people to mine ingots or gather lumber for them. They would pay you to basically work your mining up. I could sell bundles at 1k, 5k, or 10k lots and these folk would buy them up in an instant. They would then turn about and sell those ingots to other players. You never see that sort of thing anymore. Another thing you don't ever see is folk hanging about at the smithy. But I'll say this there are VERY few players now who DON'T have their own crafters. Almost everyone has a "mule" on their account. So those who actually chose to craft and enjoy it have no one really to sell their wares to because anyone who wanted that stuff can make it themselves. For awhile only the serious crafters had Imbuers.... but now even that is becoming more and more commonplace to have an imbuer.

What I don't have is 100's of hours to play the game in the week. But my drive to play is also less and less. But for many as we have all grown older many of the younger players have now moved on gotten married (And if you didn't know 9 times out of 10 UO is VERY frowned upon in a marriage) and had kids (Which I frown on folk playing UO and not spending time with their kids) leaving less and less time for UO. Now some like me my Kids are older and are "grown"... so now I should have more time for UO... but now I'm more frustrated by things than happy. I get frustrated with the grinds... I am tired of the constant additions that require more and more time to grind... and less and less time for community and RP.

 

[Warpig Inc]

For gathering the BR Eli was happy days.

Longer you mine, jack or fish the greater chance to spawn an enraged rare ore, enraged rare wood or enraged water elemental. Enraged would equal the old infested bumped spawn.

It is not a hard thing to make unattended play unhealthy with current game mechanics. Over a decade ago when the game was peaking they had been warned about scripting and what it will do to the games future. They seen the game as a passing fad and just wanted to fill their pockets.

There is a need for a new shard that has no transfering characters. Call it the elite shard. Cost $3 more a month to play on and comes with it's own dedicated GMs.

 

[Tina Small]

Gods how I miss being able to go get exactly what I needed when I needed it. I can't tell you how many times now I cringe thinking about doing any deco with stone. Especially any of the harder to find deposits ... Like gods forbid Verite.... Valorite...

I just want to cry if it's anything more than shadow. Its sad when you think about it. Heck I can mine saltpeter better than I can get Verite or Valorite stone.

I think randomizing the ores and trees only killed the average player never hurt the scripters at all.

What I fear happening if the developers listen to the requests to go back to fixed locations is that they will put all the higher-end ores in truly dangerous locations. Is that what we want to have happen?

 

[Sevin0oo0]

I would prefer the game to be rid of cheating.... and cheating in UO made possible for all players?

I understand the spirit of yours, and others, posts, and I feel as you, to an extent, including non-legalization of cheating. I feel legalization should NEVER EVER be on the table in the list of possible resolves. Knowing others don't really want it either, why is it even mentioned? see what I'm sayin'?
Or to say it should be one way OR another just places limits on creativity, even just the mention of a non-positive direction will help kill that spark. and I can guarantee whatever either/or situation that a problem can be boiled down to can, and most likely will, be altered by a developer. There's always someone faster and smarter out there, just like gunslingers, put them to work, make 'em think.

 

[Nimuaq]

What I fear happening if the developers listen to the requests to go back to fixed locations is that they will put all the higher-end ores in truly dangerous locations. Is that what we want to have happen?

There are scripts that can be used to kill the mobs, hide, peace etc. So I don't think dangerous locations will stop the scripters.

 

[Tina Small]

There are scripts that can kill the sea serpents and the deep sea serpents that spawn while you're fishing. We've also previously seen a scripter in Europa, soloing the mini-champ in the Cavern of the Discarded. They can auto kill the mobs, hide, peace etc. So I don't think dangerous locations will stop the scripters.

They would certainly stop me, though.

I actually prefer the randomized ore and wood. Before that change went in, it was rare on the shards I played at that time (Baja and GL) that a casual player who only mined or lumberjacked sporadically was able to get anything from the known locations for the higher-end woods and ores. Those spots seemed to be empty or blocked about 95% of the time for me. These days, I just periodically go on a mining/LJ binge in Trammel or on Siege for 2-3 hours, just walking along with a fire beetle and mining every spot as I go, and I fill up 7-8 books with runes marked for every type of ore or wood I find that's above iron or above ash and then use those runes every few days for another month or so until most of the locations have changed to something I don't want. Between doing that and using the prospecting tool, I seem to eventually get enough ingots to fill the BODs that are worth filling and keep a nice supply of boards in various colors. On Siege, I've also got one of the tree stumps, so that helps a bit too.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

There are scripts that can ...

NOT saying yours is, but discussions can also turn dangerous when definition of limits are explored simply causing the scripters to become more creative, rather than a higher level view. Glad I'm not a Mod, that's a tough line to watch, before triggering a thread lock. I know for Fact that developers, in the past, have been members of Bug Boards and such. Like they say, "it takes one to know one", kinda, I'd bet they know exactly what/how is being done in their game.

 

[Nimuaq]

NOT saying yours is, but discussions can also turn dangerous when definition of limits are explored simply causing the scripters to become more creative, rather than a higher level view.

I removed some of the details, but I don't think that discussing what those scripts are capable of will encourage players more than seeing the inaction against scripters. So a dev stating that appropriate actions are taken against scripters is more than enough to discourage scripting.

Or we can lock this thread and don't talk about scripters anymore and pretend that this is not a big issue anyways .

 

[MalagAste]

As I've said many times before until they actually do ban folk for good and prevent them from just buying another account and starting up again same day then it will never end.

There are dozens of folk still playing who have been banned many times over... nothing is there to prevent dupers or scripters from just picking right back up and carrying on where they left off.

 

[Ludes]

There are scripts that can be used to kill the mobs, hide, peace etc. So I don't think dangerous locations will stop the scripters.

Scripts can be as complicated as your willing to write them.. So Nimuaq is exactly right here.
But like MalagAste and several of ya'll have pointed out.. these aren't FREE accounts.. they are paid accounts that are made as soon as one gets banned. Hard for anyone to keep track of.. I dare anyone to lay out in code how you would track that. Without spending every minute you have.

That said.. You can compete with them.. As a lot of you know I have been trying to get the stealable books from Bedlam for a while.. always scriptors there.. but if you take two characters.. throw up a trade window with one and steal with the other.. they can be beat.

 

[Woodsman]

What I fear happening if the developers listen to the requests to go back to fixed locations is that they will put all the higher-end ores in truly dangerous locations. Is that what we want to have happen?

I don't think they would do that, because it would cause Stratics to go into a meltdown.

I think they just need to go back to the old system, because the newer system favors the scripters and the changes that were made did not fix things. There is nothing wrong with admitting a change didn't work and going back to the old way. Think about new players:

Scripting bots hurt everyone. Folk may not think that they do but they do. When I was "new" to the game many a time you could find players actually SEARCHING for people to mine ingots or gather lumber for them. They would pay you to basically work your mining up. I could sell bundles at 1k, 5k, or 10k lots and these folk would buy them up in an instant.

Rather than respond to the scripters with game changes that screw legitimate players, they just need to go back and start banning scripters. Start with the search engine bots - those search engines are scripting like crazy so that they can offer gold and resources on their sites in addition to using the bots to populate the databases. Those are easy to find. I see the search engine bots all the time, I see the bots dropping books that break the TOS. They are so easy to find.

 

[Woodsman]

Scripters DO get removed, sadly it would take a whole team working 24/7 to keep up with the folk doing it to get them all removed. But I'm sure everyone knows that Murphy's law dictates that the one who's caught and removed is the one doing it for the very first time because someone told him he'd never be caught. Don't tempt Murphy.

I know a lot of people who reported the "Tim" scripters that keep the search engine sites going, and nothing was done. I had a friend who sent screenshots and all kinds of information about the "Tim" scripters personally to Cal last year, and the response was that Cal and the UO team knew about those scripters and were "monitoring them". There were multiple threads on Stratics about "Tim" and the search engine scripters.

Petra, I believe that some are getting banned, but I've been back over a year, and not a week goes by that I don't see the search engine scripters doing their thing, or the mass evidence of the book droppers. If I make it a point to visit Luna, all it takes is one circuit around Luna and I can find a search engine scripters, no matter what name they are using.

The fact that the search engines are openly bragging about expanding their scripting to cover all of the player vendors in all of Britannia really makes a mockery of the TOS and the UO team.

 

[MalagAste]

I know a lot of people who reported the "Tim" scripters that keep the search engine sites going, and nothing was done. I had a friend who sent screenshots and all kinds of information about the "Tim" scripters personally to Cal last year, and the response was that Cal and the UO team knew about those scripters and were "monitoring them". There were multiple threads on Stratics about "Tim" and the search engine scripters.

Petra, I believe that some are getting banned, but I've been back over a year, and not a week goes by that I don't see the search engine scripters doing their thing, or the mass evidence of the book droppers. If I make it a point to visit Luna, all it takes is one circuit around Luna and I can find a search engine scripters, no matter what name they are using.

The fact that the search engines are openly bragging about expanding their scripting to cover all of the player vendors in all of Britannia really makes a mockery of the TOS and the UO team.

Again the problem doesn't lie in them not banning the scripters.... I know they do..... the problem lies in the fact that the banned scripter can run right out and buy another account and be right back at it within 10 minutes. THAT is the problem. And until they do something about that then nothing will ever change.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

Since they know (monitoring) about how the search sites are getting their information, they also know what they do on the sites, including RMT, and by leaving it in place tells me they think it's not causing enough harm to warrant the Ban Hammer. There is a large amount of people that use the site's services, whether they spend any money there or not. It's not free to the owner, nor would it be to EA... a dev's time, url builder, legal, art, etc.. They don't want a yet 3rd UO Forum, Why not, when there's already some that are run, maintained, and staffed, for Free? Some want in-game search, would devs do all that For Free??? yeah, think again. Do you really want to go mine/chop all your own stuff? (i know some do), or hunt thru literally 100's of vendors in search for something? I don't.

 

[Woodsman]

and by leaving it in place tells me they think it's not causing enough harm to warrant the Ban Hammer.

Jeff Skalski said they devalue the game, and talked about giving them their own place, so obviously they don't think highly of it. Cal said they were being "monitored" whatever that means.

Do you really want to go mine/chop all your own stuff?

If you took the scripters out the equation, or reduced their presence by going back to the old way, there would be plenty of people who would find it worth their time to chop and mine, especially new players or players training up mining/LJing. The current random system favors scripters when it comes to mining/chopping. Going back to the old system would put everybody on equal footing with the scripters.

My biggest concern is they are going to put development resources into a system to discourage it, or go through the trouble of making a shard or something for the scripters (Jeff's idea of giving them their own place), when everybody knows the scripters script either because they make money or it gives them an advantage over other players, and they won't be confined to a place where they get no advantage or make no money.

Developing a system to discourage it....well the last time they tried that, it led to the current system where scripters ultimately benefited and it was made harder on legitimate players.

 

[Woodsman]

Does anybody know if Jeff ever clarified his statements about giving the scripters their own place?

 

[Sevin0oo0]

I think Jeff wants to accommodate them for retaining their money, we know he doesn't like cheaters, and I don't think speed hackers and auto-healers are in the same boat with a search site. Something's coming tho, just wish we'd get some sneak peaks.

EDIT: and I don't think they want to go back to the old way either, wasn't that a failure?

 

[Sevin0oo0]

As someone mentioned Alexia and the majority of site usage, maybe we're the minority here, you know, the ones that throw their hands up and say I give up, I Quit, while people there are enjoying it immensely and having fun? Like it or not, UO is a world product, and other markets do affect us here, imo

 

[Ludes]

I have been approached while mining or crafting and asked if I was there.. what more could they do?

 

[Flutter]

I don't think speed hackers and auto-healers are in the same boat with a search site.

I'm sorry but I disagree. You can't tell one scripter what he is doing is ok, and another it's not. Either it's legal or it's not. Period.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

I was always taught that rules are typically guidelines, it's not the legal system where everything is cut and dried. Being guidelines, that gives discretionary powers, and responsibility to those in charge. Same with this board... where a Mod can choose to take an action, or not. Once a game has transcended to cold hard rules, even Zero Tolerance policies, it's just too strict to be fun anymore. Mostly adults here, we're an odd lot, which means 'bending rules' and having gray areas, both tolerable.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

I'm sorry but I disagree. You can't tell one scripter what he is doing is ok, and another it's not. Either it's legal or it's not. Period.

I'll have to disagree here. You could easily say that scripting, whether attended or unattended, is ok for training up skills, crafting and resource gathering while at the same time prohibiting multi-boxing in PvP and PvM, which is running a script to use more than one client and character but controlled by one person.

You could go either way with healing scripts, allow or prohibit though probably difficult to detect. I've read plenty though, where the best PvPrs say that the healer scripts usually end up getting them killed by screwing up their targeting and timing. I dunno.

 

[Flutter]

|The scripting I am talking about is all the same thing though. I'm not talking about speed hacks or client modifications.
I am talking about writing a script that makes your character perform actions. Regardless of what those actions are. I think (my opinion) that you can't say one written script (literally what it is) is allowed but another one isn't.

 

[Woodsman]

and I don't think speed hackers and auto-healers are in the same boat with a search site.

Besides what Flutter said about how you can't tell one group of people breaking the TOS that it's okay and another group that it's not, they are in the same boat.

The speed hackers/auto-healers are screwing with one type of gameplay - PvP/PvE.

The people scripting the search sites are also scripting for items to sell on those sites, and they are screwing with another type of gameplay - crafting and resource gathering. Just because a lot of us focus on PvP and PvE doesn't mean there aren't a lot of UO players who just want to do the mining/lumberjacking/crafting thing.

EDIT: and I don't think they want to go back to the old way either, wasn't that a failure?

Whatever problems people may have had with the old system, at least everybody was on equal footing. The new way favors the scripters more than the old way, and the new way ruined things for a lot of legit players.

Rather than try to actively re-engineer the system, and in the process create a system that favored scripters, they should have just looked for those people who were obviously scripting and ban them and keep banning them or made the clients deliberately screw with the scripting software.

 

[Woodsman]

If you start saying certain forms of scripting are going to be allowed, you're opening up a pandora's box. We have this problem now because the area is hazy due to a lack of enforcement. Okaying certain types of scripting would only complicate the matter. BioWare wouldn't sign off on it anyways - they have enough problems without the gaming sites asking why they would condone cheating.

Long term, they need to address why certain systems favor the scripters, especially logging/mining. Reducing the impact of the scripters would make a lot of people happier.. On PvP/PvE, that's a lot harder because how do you address it?

Should we as players be paging GMs on scripting a lot more than we are? Maybe they don't realize how much it bothers a lot of us?

 

[Sevin0oo0]

how do you address it?

I wouldn't want to say Any form of scripting should be allowed, or overlooked, and they should address the system mechanics as a root cause instead of playing police. It's more and more I feel like I'm wasting my time, other than being able to 'offer' my thoughts, because there's not going to be any comments here by Devs on this. Throw your idea on the table, then turn and go away... wait for 'soon'

 

[Orgional Farimir]

I'll have to disagree here. You could easily say that scripting, whether attended or unattended, is ok for training up skills, crafting and resource gathering while at the same time prohibiting multi-boxing in PvP and PvM, which is running a script to use more than one client and character but controlled by one person.

You could go either way with healing scripts, allow or prohibit though probably difficult to detect. I've read plenty though, where the best PvPrs say that the healer scripts usually end up getting them killed by screwing up their targeting and timing. I dunno.

I agree 10000% There are all sorts of PvP scripts from auto healing, to spell casting, to using a trapped box assoon as you get parad, and so many more that I won't even start to list. I do not know of 1 GOOD PvPer that uses them. You do get those "chump" PvPers who use them, but you can easily tell who they are and find easy ways to kill them.

There are even more scripts for PvM, from champ farming to peerless scripts, auto looting, and God knows what else. Once again, 1 good sampire can do a spawn faster than having a script do it, so they are pointless.

But when it comes to gathering resources and training skills those are the scripts that are used most often, and who can blame them. When I get home from a long day at work the last thing I want to do is double click a pick axe 5,000,000,000,000 times.

Either let people script resources and skills, but not quests, PvP, PvM or anything like that, or do what Poo said another games does. Let people hire NPC's to do their resource gathering for them. Either way for the people who like to mine, lumberjack, and all around gather resources it doesn't hurt them they can still do it how they wish, but for people who prefer to enjoy other aspects of the game with the grinding resources it helps them.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Interestingly one of my staff sent to me a few days ago

*Watches as PvPers complain in Global about GMs throwing people in Jail using speeder*

We never saw a murmur about that on the boards, did we?

 

[Flutter]

Interestingly one of my staff sent to me a few days ago



We never saw a murmur about that on the boards, did we?

I wonder what shard this was on.

 

[Picus of Napa]

Interestingly one of my staff sent to me a few days ago



We never saw a murmur about that on the boards, did we?

And this happened when and where? I highly doubt it after 5 years of the same 40 people running the same crap....

 

[aarons6]

scripters and cheaters and the like make the game worse for the rest of us because 1) they flood the market with items etc that they recieve without any effort and 2) they take the devs time away from making a better UO experience (like fixing what happend to factions last month) to tracking down scripters and figuring out how to stop them. I wish people would just play the game like it was intended. That would make everything a lot better.

your statement is flawed for the very same reasons you state..
1) if the market isnt flooded with said items the general public would not have access to them.
2) the DEVS dont spend ANY time on scripters.. if they did you couldnt script..

 

[Nimuaq]

We never saw a murmur about that on the boards, did we?

The creator of one of those script programs said in 2006 that the program can easily be detected by the developers. The point we came after six years is a spreadsheet that contains the information regarding the accounts that use illegal programs and no action against them.

GMs only take action when you report another player, they don't travel from shard to shard checking what every single player do, so I'm sad to say that this is hardly a success story.

 

[Petra Fyde]

What was interesting was that it happened, but was never mentioned on these boards at the time.
Everyone can post pages and pages about what GMs don't do, but not a single word about it when they do do something.

 

[Shakkar]

All I can say is wow. If someone is unattended and doing a single or multiple task afk,they are in violation of uo tos. However, most players are not qualified to determine the workings of another player. If you suspect unattended macroing please page a gm in game with the info you are seeing and let the professionals take care of this. Now from what I understand some guy was working in heart wood? and someone went to do a trade with them and they closed window after x amount of time? well they closed the window so they couldnt be too afk could they? I also hear the word scripter thrown out there. definiton of scripter is some one who gets and sells goods or items in uo for money(script). which, is not a violation of uo tos at all. The unattended word you put before the word script does intensify the situation. but, once again you nor I or qualified to make that decision. In closing if you really want to do more than belly aching about this you will page the gm if you have a question along this line. no need to get so upset it interferes with your gameplay.No need to make acusations in a chat forum. This sorta reminds me of people not knowing how to do something, so naturally there confused and the other guy must be cheating. when in reality the complainer lacks the understanding and knowledge to know they are wrong. In my oppinion his complaint is the same as someone saying that guy dupes stuff.Of course noone is duping anyting. but of course someone always wants to start a urban myth. in closing page the gm with any concerns and lets get it documented in game. Lets have fun and not worry about the other guy, worry about yourself.

 

[Nimuaq]

definiton of scripter is some one who gets and sells goods or items in uo for money(script). which, is not a violation of uo tos at all.

The definition of a scripter is a person who writes and/or uses code pieces otherwise known as scripts that are used by the 3rd party programs to send packets to the game client regarding the coded (scripted) actions which are against the ToS per:

23. You will not post, use or distribute any utilities, applications, emulators or other software tools related to Ultima Online that do not have the express written permission of Electronic Arts to be used with the Service. Information about approved software can be found here.

Unattended scripting means that the person not only uses those programs, but also is not present, which is against the ToS per:

6. You may not leave an active character or pet in game while unattended. If your character is performing a skill, text or action, you must be able to respond to a Game Master when one attempts to speak to you.

 

[Shakkar]

The definition of a scripter is a person who writes and/or uses code pieces otherwise known as scripts that are used by the 3rd party programs to send packets to the game client regarding the coded (scripted) actions which are against the ToS per:



Unattended scripting means that the person not only uses those programs, but also is not present, which is against the ToS per:

I am sorry I disagree, what you are defining is 3rd party programs and there uses which is a violation of tos. I would not label it as scripting but as using a third party program. And you nor I have the wisdom to determine if this is happening page a gm with your concerns if you want to remedy this.

 

[Nimuaq]

I am sorry I disagree, what you are defining is 3rd party programs and there uses which is a violation of tos. I would not label it as scripting but as using a third party program. And you nor I have the wisdom to determine if this is happening page a gm with your concerns if you want to remedy this.

I really can't understand what you mean. We can't just make up a new definition for scripting and we're already discussing scripting according to the definition above.

 

[Petra Fyde]

All I can say is wow. If someone is unattended and doing a single or multiple task afk,they are in violation of uo tos. However, most players are not qualified to determine the workings of another player. If you suspect unattended macroing please page a gm in game with the info you are seeing and let the professionals take care of this. Now from what I understand some guy was working in heart wood? and someone went to do a trade with them and they closed window after x amount of time? well they closed the window so they couldnt be too afk could they? I also hear the word scripter thrown out there. definiton of scripter is some one who gets and sells goods or items in uo for money(script). which, is not a violation of uo tos at all. The unattended word you put before the word script does intensify the situation. but, once again you nor I or qualified to make that decision. In closing if you really want to do more than belly aching about this you will page the gm if you have a question along this line. no need to get so upset it interferes with your gameplay.No need to make acusations in a chat forum. This sorta reminds me of people not knowing how to do something, so naturally there confused and the other guy must be cheating. when in reality the complainer lacks the understanding and knowledge to know they are wrong. In my oppinion his complaint is the same as someone saying that guy dupes stuff.Of course noone is duping anyting. but of course someone always wants to start a urban myth. in closing page the gm with any concerns and lets get it documented in game. Lets have fun and not worry about the other guy, worry about yourself.

I'm sorry, but the correct word for money in the scenario you describe is 'scrip' not 'script'
Scrip - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This thread revolves around computer language scripts, as definition 5 here:
script - definition of script by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

I think I'd like to see a situation where unresponsive characters following a strictly defined route were simply disconnected from the server. On the rare occasion that one of these apparently automated characters actual wasn't, the player would simply re-log - but where the 'player' wasn't playing, but afk that wouldn't happen. Therefore the resources would not be gathered.

 

[Shakkar]

I am sorry and stand corrected. when it was said scripters i took it for the meaning i wrote. ive never heard any one say scripers to define what i was talking about. my point was clearly that most things are explainable and are not necessarily cheating or third party programs. If someone has a concern they should adress it in game to remedy it. Not blow out a message board over it. If some one has solid info they should send a bug report and adress it in game is the sentiment I am sharing with all. I have set in game macros and are not third party at all, but to some they cant set same macro. Not everything is cheating. And I do not believe anyone should let this bother them. Of course thats in my own opinion. Thank you for letting me say my point.

 

[LordDrago]

Now from what I understand some guy was working in heart wood? and someone went to do a trade with them and they closed window after x amount of time? well they closed the window so they couldnt be too afk could they?

The trade window will time out if no action is taken on it. Has happened a few times when I trade something to a freind who has gone afk at the bank to make dinner or whatever.

I also hear the word scripter thrown out there. definiton of scripter is some one who gets and sells goods or items in uo for money(script). which, is not a violation of uo tos at all. The unattended word you put before the word script does intensify the situation. but, once again you nor I or qualified to make that decision.

Scripter is used in this context in regards to someone, for example, running a script which allows their character to mine ore non-stop, without the need for the "player" to be controlling the characters actions (unattended scripting). As far as determining who is/isn;t a scripter, you are correct that no player can be 100% certain that a specific character is unattended scripting, however, a reasonable evaluation can be made, prior to paging to avoid both bothering the GM, and bothering a person just mining. Sometimes it is as easy as saying hi, and getting a response (I know, you don't need to respond, but if you do, you are probably not a scripter - just as when i ask you if you are there as I am using a garg pickaxe, and I do not want to accidently get you killed if you cannot defend yourself in case the ele targets you - if you say you cannot, I will not mine there), or just casually observing what the character does.

 

[MissEcho]

Mining or lumberjacking for few hours produces a little amount of resources that is not even 1/10 of the whole demand. Also the people who rellay enjoy this kind of activities are very few, so without scripters there will be a huge less crafting activities around...

It used to be that a LOT of people used to gather resources as there was a great market for the time in v profit. Before they nerfed the 'location nodes' to random, and ANYONE could go and get val or gold ingots etc depending on demand, there were a lot more miners out there and the price was good, but not unreasonable. The scripters, while active were held in check as anyone could gather a decent amount for a bit of time. Now not only do the scripters have all the time in the world, the prices for val etc are totally jacked up so that only the very rich can even afford to buy them. It doesn't bother someone who presses a 'GO' button and walks away and comes back hours later to see what 'haul' they have in both quantity and color. I would basically say anyone who is selling 60k deeds in val etc is 90% or greater scripting those ingots.

The last time I sold val ingots was long before the ores became random, mainly as scripters then were driving the price down so it wasn't really worth selling them, now they are driving it UP as the average miner would be lucky to score 100 val ingots in any mining session of a few hours.

Just because YOU don't mine, please don't assume that there aren't a lot of us closet miners out here. Unless you have surveyed all miners. Basically even miners now are forced to 'buy' those ingots as they can't compete and the randomness of ore veins makes it too time consuming to find the spots for 1000 ingots only to have those spots disappear next time they go out.

The whole thing is screwed and basically set up for the scripters.

 

[Shakkar]

The trade window will time out if no action is taken on it. Has happened a few times when I trade something to a freind who has gone afk at the bank to make dinner or whatever.



Scripter is used in this context in regards to someone, for example, running a script which allows their character to mine ore non-stop, without the need for the "player" to be controlling the characters actions (unattended scripting). As far as determining who is/isn;t a scripter, you are correct that no player can be 100% certain that a specific character is unattended scripting, however, a reasonable evaluation can be made, prior to paging to avoid both bothering the GM, and bothering a person just mining. Sometimes it is as easy as saying hi, and getting a response (I know, you don't need to respond, but if you do, you are probably not a scripter - just as when i ask you if you are there as I am using a garg pickaxe, and I do not want to accidently get you killed if you cannot defend yourself in case the ele targets you - if you say you cannot, I will not mine there), or just casually observing what the character does.

Yes I now understand thank you. We should change the tos to say unattended scripting not anattended macroing. tho I would think unattended scripting by the termenology you are using would be much worse cause it involves not only unatteneded macroing but a third party program. which I would find either unacceptable to have in game at any time for any reason. and you are absolutly right again when you say that players have no obligation to respond to another player if they so chose not to. I personally would not summonon a monster on them to make them move or anything against them that may be considered a grief. But worded properly a gm can investigate especially if said person is really afk he will be so all or at least for hours at a time.Easy for a gm to pop in and see activity and take action aka investigate complaint. AS for people who write comp code aka script they are hackers and should be called such. so there is no mistake on the point. third party programs are not legal here and should be treated as such. I agree on the point but feel alot of things is misunderstandings is all.

 

[Woodsman]

PuckOfPacific, could you edit your post to remove the reference to an illegal site, because while I'm not accusing you of this, I've noticed in the past that some people deliberately start mentioning the software or websites in an effort to get a thread locked because they don't want the topic discussed. Again, not saying that's you, but I've seen old Stratics threads locked when people start doing that.

I think the discussion of semantics and definitions detracts from things.

Call them any name you want, the fact is that they are breaking the TOS, they are actively undermining the game, whether it's PvP or Pve or resource gathering, people like Jeff Skalski think they "devalue" the game, they harm UO's reputation (which harm's UO's longevity), and they drive a lot of players away from activities that they would normally enjoy or would be worth their time.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

prices for val etc are totally jacked up so that only the very rich can even afford to buy them

Thanks, [OT] this might be a real good time for me to sell all the ones I've saved over the years. If it's that 'rare', or 'that special', it probably wasn't meant for me in the first place - me and 'leet' don't get along anyways. I'd rather just do without and take my place in mainstream UO with the majority of users. I'm done with the needle in a haystack. [/OT]

 

[Woodsman]

What was interesting was that it happened, but was never mentioned on these boards at the time.
Everyone can post pages and pages about what GMs don't do, but not a single word about it when they do do something.

I just know that when I came back, I and others reported the search engine bots, and many people had reported the scripters for a long time prior to my coming back, and there had been several threads on Stratics.

And yet this morning I saw the search engine bots doing their thing in the open in Luna, on the two shards I logged into.

If they are going after those scripters that are undermining PvP/PvE, great! I wish they'd mention how many they've banned to set an example.

But I wish they'd take care of the ones that are openly scripting and walking past us everyday in Luna and elsewhere. That doesn't require much in the way of GMs, since it's obvious who they are and a check would show that they are logging hours that are not humanly possible. Plus those search engines are scripting resources night and day, and they would not be hard to find either. Many of us can point out the vendor houses of scripters.

I have reported them through the GM channels, I know they were reported to Cal, but they still do their thing every single day.

 

[Woodsman]

I know a lot of people like the search engines, but those search engines don't exist because the people behind them like UO, they exist to make them money, they are businesses. Those websites offer 100s of millions of gold for real life money, they offer 10s and 100s of thousands of colored ingots and wood. The people behind those sites did not obtain those ingots and wood and gold by getting up every morning and clicking a mouse all day.

It's like Google. Google doesn't provide a search engine to fill a need, they provide a search engine to help sell advertising, only these people use their sites to sell gold and resources.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

I have reported them through the GM channels

As supposedly the person that reported himself and no action was taken. One of the questions that has to be asked is What action should be taken that has the most positive impact on subscriptions? That affects both future and immediate income. They are going to do what makes the most money over time, even if it means a delay to justify a tough decision. We already know mass bans aren't going to happen, but if there's a common connector, I bet That gets removed. Become hard core straight lined, or get creative? Tough problem, tough for any producer.