State of the Moose Address (The Truth about PAIN and MM)

[Promathia]

First off let me introduce myself: My name Is Promathia (AKA Solus, Issac). I started my UO career on this shard of Chesapeake, at one time being a member of Tram guilds such as L&L and CKS. I started to pvp in {X}, and one day became the guild leader when Drake quit, and Godthick stepped down. Some time later I put the {X} stone to rest, and started my own history with the guild FoA. Eventually FoA moved to Atlantic, reclaiming the Moose Mafia _MM_ guild tag with the blessing (And joining) of its original Guild Leader. We have made adventures into other shards, even at one time being allied with LD.

Without going into many details, I want to say the time with LD was fun. Unfortunately difference of opinions led to a split, and one of their members (Blitz), and has become a very good friend on this game. As I have alot of history on Chesapeake, an ICQ conversation occurred between a Pain leader and myself. He assured me fights on Chesapeake where very big (And we already had characters back here to originally play with LD). He proposed an alliance that at first I was very skeptical of.

I think we all know the things commonly said of PAIN, so I will not get into it. Needless to say, we were not very optimistic going into it. The minute I entered vent, I was astonished. So many names popped out to me. Former enemies, former guildmates, and friends who I had sadly lost contact with. I was so pleased, and it just got better. People showed a passion for UO, and a passion to try to get better in PVP. They wanted to duel, they wanted to learn, they asked questions, they did what they could to help the group at any cost. I was very happy overall with this new found relationship with PAIN. Unfortunately, not every member was like this, and it greatly hurt the group as a whole.

As I soon found out, the guilds leadership was greatly inactive. There were no consequences for wrongdoing in the guild. If someone messed up at a fight, there was never any kind of accountability, atleast not until we tried to make the effort. My mentality is, if someone doesn't know they are doing something wrong, how are they supposed to fix it? So we started working with people, holding people accountable, watching to see who adjusts. Unfortunately, at the end of the day we were just MM and had no real say in PAIN. There were leaders who agreed with us, but for a guild who preached that they were ran as a "Group" it sure seemed to only be run by a select few.

Conflicting attitudes helped to spread the divide among members. On one hand, a VERY small group including the main leaders, preached a laid back attitude and that winning didn't really matter. The vast majority on the other hand wanted to improve, they wanted to be active, and they were tired of losing. Soon members were coming to me, saying to me in private how if the alliance broke they wanted to come with us. This was out of the blue, and I kept their names confidential, but I went straight to the leadership. I pleaded with them to understand, that their guild was frustrated and wanting change. My warnings went ignored.

It was upsetting for me , especially with everything that has recently happened. People in both guilds weren't happy, and I even lost guild members because of it. I had guild members stop playing UO, or even leave MM because of the alliance. I want to stress, they didn't leave because of the PEOPLE, but because of the inaction of their leadership. I tried so hard to keep the alliance together, even burning myself in the process. I decided that we needed to do something, or else it was all going to fall apart. I went to leadership asking for a bigger say. MM was expected to use PAINS vent, PAINS carto, but we weren't given any trust in either aspect. I asked for vent admin, so that AFK's could be moved (Which wasnt being done), so AFKs could be kicked for fights (Which wasn't being done) so I could Gmute people during raids (Again, wasn't being done). I was denied. I inquired , what if the majority of your guild wants me to have admin? The answer was still No. I was shocked. I then asked, will MM have any input on anything to do with PAIN? The answer was no. I knew the alliance wouldn't work if one side wanted ALL of the power. Nonetheless, I stuck with it, for what I thought was the better of both guilds.

The next day the Alliance was over. I had no messages, I had no inclination it was going to happen. My members were shocked, and at the same time the PAIN members were also shocked. They had not been asked for input, and a few leaders overrode all the other leaders and members. Messages were sent out saying, MMs intention from the beginning was to steal members. PAIN members were being called MM spies. Quite frankly, it was nuts. Quite frankly, I still don't know what to think of it all. Pain leaders took to their forums, and took it upon themselves to also put a plan in motion to go nonfactions. Again, an issue not agreed or brought up to the majority of the guild.

As time went by, PAIN members started icqn me and other MM members. They wanted to inquire about joining. Some have already come over, some are taking their time to think about it, and some just want some time to say their farewells. It didn't have to be this way, but unfortunately this is what things have come to. All because of a few paranoid, overzealous leaders, a guild full of good people is slowly crumbling. They don't deserve this, the members of PAIN don't deserve it. To suddenly have these decisions, and drama thrust upon them, its just not fair. I want to offer my sincere apology to any member who is now having tough decisions weighing on their mind.

I know I'm not well liked on Chesapeake due to a long long history. As human beings we all make mistakes, and I never thought of myself as anything but human. I've admitted to mine, and I have even tried to atone for them. Some sins cant be forgiven so easily, and I understand that. We need a good active community, and I don't want to see anyone quitting UO over this whole debacle. You play this game because its fun, and no matter what you choose (Joining MM, or staying in PAIN) friends STAY friends. If someone wont be a friend just because of your guildtag, well then they weren't truly a friend. That is something I know I am guilty of doing in the past.


Any PAIN members are welcome to come join MM. We plan to stay on Chessy, and we are led by myself, a long time original Chessy player. We want you to want to learn, to want to improve, to want to pvp, and want to enjoy your time online. If you mess up, you WILL be held accountable, but then we will do our damnedest to teach, or help things get better. All PAIN members are also very much welcomed to stay in PAIN as well. I understand there are long time friendships, or maybe our playstyles don't mesh. I hope you guys have fun in UO, and I wish you all the best.

I can also assure Chesapeake, that those PAIN members you once had misconceptions about will be putting you in the dirt. These guys are GOOD guys, WILLING to learn. They will improve, and they will be bringing down holy fire of vengeance upon DOTA and anyone else on Chesapeake. So keep your eye out, as many PAIN will be becoming MM, and they WILL be getting your insurance money.

Thank you all for your time, and all praise our Lord The Moose.

Promathia/Solus/Issac

ICQ: 612363999

Any questions can be answered here, in PM or icq. I will NOT be naming any names whatsoever. Whether I liked or disliked you, I will not betray private discussions, or internal guild/alliance matters.

 

[Geronimo]

You have shown a great number of people the immoral mind set you live by and your statements on this Forum once again prove this.
You use words to put a spin on a situation that did not occur in the manner you state it did. So, live in your world of lies as this is just another attempt to steal P@!N members after your access to them from Vent was removed.

The primary reason for the Alliance dissolving was because of your direct attempts to recruit P@!N members into your guild on ATL and Chessy from the onset. P@!N Council was notified of these attempts by not only P@!N members, but also from MM members. I will not give too many details because, frankly, it no longer matters, but all decisions made in regards to the Alliance were discussed and agreed upon by the majority of Council members within P@!N prior to any actions. You were provided the Vent rights you requested, within minutes of the request, but then the Council majority voted to not give them to you, so they were removed.

I can also say that your actions in regards to lying to a new P@!N member, telling them that their continued membership in the P@!N Guild was contingent upon providing DOTA's Map and Vent info, was a disgrace to the P@!N name, members and anyone with any honor or ethics. No P@!N member wanted or requested that info and I used that instance to prove another point about your dishonesty and lack of ethics to the rest of the Guild. That particular situation showed us that you are not worthy of any sort of control, power or authority because you would abuse those rights.

Unlike you, we do not tell people how to play a game that THEY pay for. We accept people as they are. We even accepted your whining and lying, because that is who YOU are, until the attempts to steal P@!N members became intolerable. Your own members reached out to me to state how they dislike you but keep you around because they like to insult, laugh and poke fun at you. That would not be my choice - but hey, to each their own.

Most people know the truth about you and those who do not will see it soon enough. Any P@!N member who leaves and decides to return will be afforded the opportunity, as will any other player in the game who agrees with our game-play ethics.

-Sadist

 

[Don't Tread on Me]

Sadist, the people want to know... are you guys going to stay factions or no? I hope so. I think that pain splitting with MM is a good thing overall. With MM's growth on Chessy, it makes things fairly even as long as all of our guys aren't on at once (which about never happens).

 

[BLACK^^]

You have shown a great number of people the immoral mind set you live by and your statements on this Forum once again prove this.
You use words to put a spin on a situation that did not occur in the manner you state it did. So, live in your world of lies as this is just another attempt to steal P@!N members after your access to them from Vent was removed.

The primary reason for the Alliance dissolving was because of your direct attempts to recruit P@!N members into your guild on ATL and Chessy from the onset. P@!N Council was notified of these attempts by not only P@!N members, but also from MM members. I will not give too many details because, frankly, it no longer matters, but all decisions made in regards to the Alliance were discussed and agreed upon by the majority of Council members within P@!N prior to any actions. You were provided the Vent rights you requested, within minutes of the request, but then the Council majority voted to not give them to you, so they were removed.

I can also say that your actions in regards to lying to a new P@!N member, telling them that their continued membership in the P@!N Guild was contingent upon providing DOTA's Map and Vent info, was a disgrace to the P@!N name, members and anyone with any honor or ethics. No P@!N member wanted or requested that info and I used that instance to prove another point about your dishonesty and lack of ethics to the rest of the Guild. That particular situation showed us that you are not worthy of any sort of control, power or authority because you would abuse those rights.

Unlike you, we do not tell people how to play a game that THEY pay for. We accept people as they are. We even accepted your whining and lying, because that is who YOU are, until the attempts to steal P@!N members became intolerable. Your own members reached out to me to state how they dislike you but keep you around because they like to insult, laugh and poke fun at you. That would not be my choice - but hey, to each their own.

Most people know the truth about you and those who do not will see it soon enough. Any P@!N member who leaves and decides to return will be afforded the opportunity, as will any other player in the game who agrees with our game-play ethics.

-Sadist

So what your saying is, your members pay to be bad? Also, ROFL at you discussing morality in a MMORPG.

 

[Geronimo]

To Don't Tread On ME:
Yes, we are staying factions. Obviously, since most of us are part-time players, we will need to re-vamp our suits a bit after this recent points change - which obviously takes a little time.
Keep in mind that 90% of what Isaac posted above is not true, regardless of his rants and insistence that it is.

Blackwell:
Just because we do not cheat in a game does not mean our players are 'bad'. It just means we do not run as fast/move/cast/react as fast as all of you guys. Obviously your guild leader doesn't think the P@!N players are bad, either, or he wouldn't have gone through so much trouble to recruit them. Look at the facts, not the 'political spin' of the situation.
And like I said about morality, you play the way you want, I play the way I want - to each their own. I choose moral people to play with, and that's my choice, hence the dissolution of the Alliance by our Council - you obviously have no morals to worry about and make your own choices based on them, or more accurately, lack thereof.

Some people put too much thought and emotion into a Video Game.

Happy Hunting!

 

[SlobberKnocker]

im truly sorry things didnt work out. i enjoyed my time in the alliance and commend mm guys for showing us some tactics and working with us to be better as a team. ill take the high road here and wish you guys nothing but success. see you down the road.

 

[Promathia]

I can also say that your actions in regards to lying to a new P@!N member, telling them that their continued membership in the P@!N Guild was contingent upon providing DOTA's Map and Vent info, was a disgrace to the P@!N name, members and anyone with any honor or ethics. No P@!N member wanted or requested that info and I used that instance to prove another point about your dishonesty and lack of ethics to the rest of the Guild. That particular situation showed us that you are not worthy of any sort of control, power or authority because you would abuse those rights.

First off, this same "Recruit" was someone who took in without asking any feedback from current members/council. He repeatedly made personal attacks towards people such as Shelly, tried to weasel his way into MM over and over, and eventually tried sneaking in through PAIN. This was said to you, and you went along with everything that happened in Vent.

 

[Geronimo]

Interesting that you chose this particular comment to address...must have hit a nerve or something.
Let's start by pointing out you have not disagreed with anything I have said..

How the P@!N Council decides to guild people does not solely rely upon everybperson's input - stop pretending you have any clue whatsoever about how decisions are made.
That person was going to be removed either way due to the issues you mentioned, which were brought to my attention when I logged in. However, you stated you wanted to speak with him, before I removed him, regarding his many attempts to join your guild. You never stated anything to me about lying to the kid to get DOTA vent and map info, or I never would have allowed it. However, once you mentioned it to him, as I stated in my original post, I observed how you handled the situation and used this info to once again prove my points about the type of person you are.

Keep trying, kid, the adults see through you like a window..

If you really insist on dragging this out I will have no choice but to keep making public the various aspects of your immaturity.

Let it rest..

- Sadist

 

[Lord Gareth]

I leave you alone on Chesapeake for one week Issac and look what happens *Shakes finger*
You will have to fill me in when I return next week cuz I must have missed a lot being gone.

And yall better be nice to my Shelly Belly

 

[jrede23]

To Don't Tread On ME:
Yes, we are staying factions. Obviously, since most of us are part-time players, we will need to re-vamp our suits a bit after this recent points change - which obviously takes a little time.
Keep in mind that 90% of what Isaac posted above is not true, regardless of his rants and insistence that it is.

Blackwell:
Just because we do not cheat in a game does not mean our players are 'bad'. It just means we do not run as fast/move/cast/react as fast as all of you guys. Obviously your guild leader doesn't think the P@!N players are bad, either, or he wouldn't have gone through so much trouble to recruit them. Look at the facts, not the 'political spin' of the situation.
And like I said about morality, you play the way you want, I play the way I want - to each their own. I choose moral people to play with, and that's my choice, hence the dissolution of the Alliance by our Council - you obviously have no morals to worry about and make your own choices based on them, or more accurately, lack thereof.

Some people put too much thought and emotion into a Video Game.

Happy Hunting!

Well sadist thats not entirely true what u said to blackwell, your guild members could be terra bad, solus will still accept them cuz he runs a zerg only format. They also refuse to play without blitz its kinda hilarious. The other night we had 5 they had six, blitz dropped so ud assume 5v5.. nahhhh torem, holy, bluebie, and the two others (names escape me) rann for the hilllssss. So he will take bad players on to outnumber his opponent and win at all costs, and just remember if blitz falls and rage logs u gotta kill em quick before they disappear. Some people just can't play without their herooooooooo. Bluebie if you read these posts, ur brother left and played with DOTA for a reason.. Come play with me and stuii again like old times We need a few more good members to attack the zergs.

 

[Promathia]

Well sadist thats not entirely true what u said to blackwell, your guild members could be terra bad, solus will still accept them cuz he runs a zerg only format. They also refuse to play without blitz its kinda hilarious. The other night we had 5 they had six, blitz dropped so ud assume 5v5.. nahhhh torem, holy, bluebie, and the two others (names escape me) rann for the hilllssss. So he will take bad players on to outnumber his opponent and win at all costs, and just remember if blitz falls and rage logs u gotta kill em quick before they disappear. Some people just can't play without their herooooooooo. Bluebie if you read these posts, ur brother left and played with DOTA for a reason.. Come play with me and stuii again like old times We need a few more good members to attack the zergs.

Hmmm, remember when LD lost 10+ members? I do! Remember they ran to MM asking for alliance because they had almost noone left? I do!

 

[jrede23]

Hmmm, remember when LD lost 10+ members? I do! Remember they ran to MM asking for alliance because they had almost noone left? I do!

hahahaha, yes I do. Do you remember when we left and our 5 beat ur 15 in terra keep. I do! We left because its more fun to fight in smaller groups than zerg opponents to death. Those fights when u are outnumbered and prevail are for more exciting than being on the other side of the equation. But you sir will always be the way you are, and I will always be the way I am . Still yet to lose a fight when our five or six core members are on, oops i lied. We did lose one fight at a harry at cove 4v 23. So yea we are 30 and 1

 

[Promathia]

hahahaha, yes I do. Do you remember when we left and our 5 beat ur 15 in terra keep. I do! We left because its more fun to fight in smaller groups than zerg opponents to death. Those fights when u are outnumbered and prevail are for more exciting than being on the other side of the equation. But you sir will always be the way you are, and I will always be the way I am . Still yet to lose a fight when our five or six core members are on, oops i lied. We did lose one fight at a harry at cove 4v 23. So yea we are 30 and 1

No, you guys left the alliance because we turned on you all on chessy. Yall pushed pain in Deciet, and we walled you guys off getting you all statted.

 

[jrede23]

No, you guys left the alliance because we turned on you all on chessy. Yall pushed pain in Deciet, and we walled you guys off getting you all statted.

No sir, u losing your harry on ATL to us and slip right after the chessy fight was a direct result of you walling off stuii and pug so that pain can kill them. We were going to leave the guild peacefully, if you didn't notice we didnt even come in your vent nemore. It was time to move on, but you pulled that tasteless maneuver (kinda like zerging it up with G dragons in wraith form haha. I kid I kid) which is why we treat u with such disrespect. Well that and the fact that no matter how many people you have, if blitz goes down and wont take a Rez u guys are ghosttsss.. Never saw one man mean so much to a guild before, but with the lack of talent you're rolling with these days it makes sense.

 

[UltimaLordAmitlu]

Stop messing with faction pts so I can wear my totem and kill all of you.

 

[Cetric]

LOLOLOLOLOL how ironic

 

[Demon Wind]

Any PAIN members are welcome to come join MM. We plan to stay on Chessy, and we are led by myself, a long time original Chessy player. We want you to want to learn, to want to improve, to want to pvp, and want to enjoy your time online. If you mess up, you WILL be held accountable, but then we will do our damnedest to teach, or help things get better. All PAIN members are also very much welcomed to stay in PAIN as well. I understand there are long time friendships, or maybe our playstyles don't mesh. I hope you guys have fun in UO, and I wish you all the best.

The Fact remains .... MM came and basically destroyed a good group of people with their promises of greatness and lies of immortality. Solus the only thing you are good at is in destroying what is good about the game and in the statement above you continue to recruit.. You are nothing without your 20 people back up and everyone in UO knows this. I am sure P@IN will survive and those members that left will soon come to know you for what you really are and at least they will be given another chance.

You claim to want to teach and such yet on ATL we joined your guild. Never were we told we were not good enough, never were we tought anything by you or anyone else or even offered to be tought. We got kicked from your guild on ATL for one reason only and that was inactivity on ATL. It was only at that time that you decided we were not good enough but do not lie to people about your willingness to teach because that Sir is a blatant Lie. Three cheers to P@IN for finally seeing you for what you are. They are better off for it in my opinion. And if your reply to me is that I am not good at pvp .... I already know this so save your breath.

 

[Orgional Farimir]

The Moose is PMSing just like it has been for the last 3 years, sadly there is no end in sight. That is the "State of The Moose".

There we go fixed it for ya

 

[Promathia]

If CREW from GL is posting in here, you are welcome to bring your guild and fight us. Of course....we all know how much you guys die to us, so I doubt you will ever do that.

Oh and for the DOTA in here, those ExPain members sure are putting you guys in the dirt lately.

 

[Tailean]

lol

 

[Emma Silvermane]

you remember .. that one time .. in prime evil lich .. when u brought foa back and a buncha trammies rolled you .. numbers almost even I do .. it was funny has hell was like suprise! ok that was my nbftl

 

[darkvulf]

bla bla bla bla

 

[hobbit35]

Must of hit a nerve since my post was removed yesterday lmbo! Promathia/Solus/Issac, Any truth that Blitz will be leaving shard?

Remember Salt is better than pepper!

 

[SlobberKnocker]

you remember .. that one time .. in prime evil lich .. when u brought foa back and a buncha trammies rolled you .. numbers almost even I do .. it was funny has hell was like suprise! ok that was my nbftl

i laughed at this. it made me think of american pie.... "that one time, at band camp...."

 

[Uncle Talbo]

Well ! Personaly i had no idea why the split, and now i have somewhat of one ( if i can read between the "he said , she said") I like the way both sides (p@in/MM) apologized to each other, if even for a moment, shows a little bit of class. There are times when playing this game that our emotions run a little high and its easy to understand one persons vendeta for another, after reading this however i feel that I can better see members of all the guilds as peeps just playing to have fun. I like that. Lets just fight and have a good time. far as fighting against numbers and winning goes, i have yet to learn how to accomplish this feat. So my plan is to just keep pounding my forehead against yours till one of us tap out ( not pretty and hardly effective but sure is fun sometimes)

I notice "DOTA" recieved a shout out several times. As a member, i got to tell you these guys are really pretty good people, not sure if past experiences has you a little chaffed or not. best advise i can give you is relax and come get my insurance money. Cheers to you all.

Talbo

 

[Mithryl Elves]

When u all coming to LS? We're getting 50 man fights pretty often with DC, CREW, 151, OMG and my guild []IQ[]
Would be really nice to get everyone all together again and get some big 100+ player multi guild fights.
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