64k subs? close but i think a little high, 8 is a little low but seeing the pop on all shards i'd be surprised if we have more than 50k left, with probably around 35k or so actual players. It was "quoted" around 2009 the number of subs was around 100k and ingame pop has dropped pretty dramaticly since then, though those numbers were never solid to begin with, EA stopped officially releasing their sub count when it dipped below 100k back around 2007ishMultiply it by about 8 and you'll come closer to the mark...
I would put down big money that UO will still be around in 5 years. At minimum there will come a time when the game stops getting developed but is still running, and at that state the game costs practically nothing.So I was told that UO has about 8k in subscriptions. I know how they know or if it is even right. I have this fear 8k is not a lot though, and will this nix my 5 year plan to play?
Updates and expansions are still being done?I would put down big money that UO will still be around in 5 years. At minimum there will come a time when the game stops getting developed but is still running, and at that state the game costs practically nothing.
heh in theory anyway.Updates and expansions are still being done?
They aren't doing the things that need to be done if they want it to last 5 years. A decent new website, much improved graphics, then we'll talk. Especially if they have much improved graphics.I would put down big money that UO will still be around in 5 years. At minimum there will come a time when the game stops getting developed but is still running, and at that state the game costs practically nothing.
I think there are quite a few more than what you mentioned, plus people like Jeff and Kai have their salaries shared between other teams (remember Jeff is the Ultima Franchise producer, not UO producer).I doubt there's any developer, at least not front-line ones, making only $40k per year. Probably more like $75k. Also, there's got to be at least 9 or 10 people working on UO full-time. There's what six people up front we all know well, Jeff, Messana, Bleak, Phoenix, Grimm and Kai. There must be at least that many we don't know.
It's probably a fair guess to say that Ultima Online still has at minimum 20,000 active accounts. At $9.99/mo that means UO generates at least $2.4 million per year.
A billion dollar company/corporation does not pay this, im sorry they dont, i have worked for one and know they pay "median" wages they actually pay people to check other wages around the country then pay right down the middle.I doubt there's any developer, at least not front-line ones, making only $40k per year. Probably more like $75k. Also, there's got to be at least 9 or 10 people working on UO full-time. There's what six people up front we all know well, Jeff, Messana, Bleak, Phoenix, Grimm and Kai. There must be at least that many we don't know.
It's probably a fair guess to say that Ultima Online still has at minimum 20,000 active accounts. At $9.99/mo that means UO generates at least $2.4 million per year.
You are looking at EA as a whole and assuming the resources of the whole will be used for this game. There is truth and the unfortunate reality here. They are a billion dollar corporation, those resources are going to be used first to whatever is theirNot sure how it breaks down, or how many games are are assigned to that studio, but at last count, i'm thinking there were over 200 people at that one studio alone, not to mention UO related still in Redwood, and then there's Intl. offices, w/o even touching on Asian. Lots of people behind the scenes that never get mentioned. Isn't there like over 40 in PR?
All they need to do to keep the game around for 5 more years is keep the existing players, and I am quite certain that there are a core of unalienable die-hards that simply wont quit till the servers shut down that could keep the game going for many years. The costs for UO have got to be really low.They aren't doing the things that need to be done if they want it to last 5 years. A decent new website, much improved graphics, then we'll talk. Especially if they have much improved graphics.
But there's too much happening in the next five years to be that certain. Too many new MMORPGs, plus the potential MMORPGs like one based Kingdom of Amalur which was developed by people who played and loved UO and love sandboxes. This isn't 2005 or even 2009.
Too much of what's being done right now is just there to keep existing players around, and you can't rely on them too much. People leave all the time.
If they couldn't figure out how to keep the existing players when there was 250,000 players, 200,000 players, 150,000 players, 100,000 players, and even 75,000 players, what makes you think they've cracked the magic code to player retention now when they have far fewer resources and revenue than they did back in the good old days?All they need to do to keep the game around for 5 more years is keep the existing players
UO can be sustained at lower numbers than what we currently have is what I'm saying. UO will not attract many new players. That's just how it is. It will attract some because it offers an experience no other games do, and not just in systems, but in a nostalgic presentation.If they couldn't figure out how to keep the existing players when there was 250,000 players, 200,000 players, 150,000 players, 100,000 players, and even 75,000 players, what makes you think they've cracked the magic code to player retention now when they have far fewer resources and revenue than they did back in the good old days?
I agree there is a core of hard-core players who will keep their accounts open to the end, but unless they are generous enough to take on the account payments of that group of players who are constantly leaving and returning, I doubt they are enough to keep UO alive. And given that UO development staff has only shrunk in the last three years, not grown, even though UO is supposed to be "widely profitable" according to the guy who is over BioWare, I'd say the revenue is not as much as some think it is.
UO was profitable in 2009, it had it's biggest expansion ever in nearly 10 years, and yet EA took the opportunity to gut UO's team and get rid of some really well-liked personalities on the team using the excuse of Warhammer and some other games crashing and burning or failng to meet financial expectations. Don't think that EA holds UO in some kind of high esteem.
EA has had opportunity after opportunity to grow UO, and they choose not to. If they had kept the Stygian Abyss team around, think about where UO could have been by now, content and client-wise.
We shouldn't even be talking about EA, because according to the two guys who run BioWare, they make all of the decisions about UO and not EA. Makes sense - UO is barely a drop in the bucket when it comes to BioWare's financials. EA accountants are not going to notice UO when it's got Mass Effect, Star Wars, and Dragon Age running interference.
Then who's decision was it to move the UO store and all accounts to Origin?We shouldn't even be talking about EA, because according to the two guys who run BioWare, they make all of the decisions about UO and not EA. Makes sense - UO is barely a drop in the bucket when it comes to BioWare's financials. EA accountants are not going to notice UO when it's got Mass Effect, Star Wars, and Dragon Age running interference.
That decision was made before BioWare officially became a label and officially took control of the Mythic games.Then who's decision was it to move the UO store and all accounts to Origin?
Stop and ponder that for a moment: The guy who is in charge of all three Mythic MMORPGs came out of marketing, and yet the last thing he's really said about any of them in the past year is to state that Warhammer wasn't in danger of being canceled when Star Wars launches.“No, no,” he said when I asked if Mythic’s involvement with SWTOR could signal WAR’s end during an interview at GDC Online. “All of these games appeal to different people for different reasons. I’m very proud to be able to say that I’m running the studio that’s run Ultima Online for as long as it has – 14 years. Dark Age of Camelot just celebrated 10 years. We hope we can run these games for as long as there is player interest.”
Citation?That decision was made before BioWare officially became a label and officially took control of the Mythic games.
BioWare didn't become a label until last August - if you're talking about the "two Doctors" coming out and saying they were fully in charge of UO and laughing that people thought EA was still micro-managing UO, it was in an interview from September or October of 2011. When BioWare became a label last August, BioWare Mythic and the other BioWare studios moved under the BioWare label. Previously, BioWare Mythic and the other BioWare studios reported to EA Games . Now BioWare Mythic reports to BioWare which reports to EA Labels. In other words, prior to the reorganization last August, the "BioWare" part of "BioWare Mythic" was just branding and Mythic was reporting to a non-RPG label. Last August, it actually began to mean something more and Mythic was reporting to the people who run all of the RPGs within EA.Citation?
To be honest, your example is something that was applied to the entire company and has nothing to do with UO as an entity. Nobody said "let's migrate UO, Camelot, and Warhammer to a new accounting system and store through Origin.com. And by the way, we're going to bring along Star Wars, Battlefield, Sims, EA Sports, and everybody else."My point is, EA keeps its fingers on the pulse on the business end of things.
The BioWare doctors said it's their decision, said they run the show when it comes EA RPGs, and they specifically mentioned UO.So game direction (which I don't think there was any confusion about) won't matter if it isn't things that keep EA from pulling the plug. Publishes, appeal to new and returning players, micro transactions, these are all things meant to keep the game going and preserve jobs. Expansions, boosters, major updates, those are things UO may never see again. So yes, EA should be included in the discussion, even concerning game development.
Oh, youAlthough the thought of all of the other games having to migrate to a new accounting system and store because of UO, Camelot, and Warhammer is humorous(For the record, Star Wars beta players were pancakes about Origin a while before we found out that UO was being migrated).
You're mixing decisions about how EA collects money for the entire company, with decisions about the design and direction of a specific game that has little impact on EA's finances. You might as well argue that EA switching it's secretaries from HP to Dell computers or EA supporting iPhones over Blackberries for its executives, or buying computer desks from Office Depot instead of Office Max keeps UO in a stranglehold or affects UO's future.EA made the decision for everyone, including Mythic, and left them no alternative. Have you noticed the amount of complaining it's caused? But you said BioWare makes ALL the decisions, which I think is humorousWhat if BioWare decided to take everything off Origin because they feel it would satisfy customers more and help improve overall quality? Do they really get to make all the decisions about every aspect of UO? NO! And the decisions EA does make affects game development, because they keep everyone in a stranglehold.
It's good that BioWare has gotten a longer leash. Realistically though, EA would rather close BioWare down than watch it grow its own legs and become a competitor. But I still think BioWare decisions, and in turn decisions by the devs about game development all harken back to who they are making money for, because EA sets the expectations higher than they would. This is why we see things like cost cutting left and right, micro transactions, delays turning into lost causes. Even if the only attention EA gives UO is checking monthly or annual numbers, it still has its dark cloud over everything, as always.Star Wars losing 200,000 accounts in a single month when Guild Wars 2 or Titan comes out is going to get the attention of EA executives. Dragon Age 3 getting poor reviews is going to get the attention of EA executives. UO's graphics direction or it's new player experience or the website redesign are not going to get the attention of EA executives.