Why no one is into the Story Arc

[Obsidian]

I have a house in New Magincia. I logged in the other day to find rioters at my steps and a fire spreading across my front porch. I thought for a moment that I needed to do something to save my house and its town. But that thought quickly faded when I realized there was no apparent benefit of working town loyalty in the story arc. There are no special drops. There is no promise of future benefits if you participate in the current plot line. I don't think I am alone because I see almost no one participating. I think back to the town invasions with the special spellbooks, Treasures of Tokuno, the invasions that dropped cursed Doom arties, the quests that droped the augmentation and regen cloaks, and the Halloween quests or monsters with Conjurer's items. Those quests or story arcs all had mass participation and were enjoyed by many. I think the root cause of the reason no one is doing the current arc is that there is no potential reward. I'd ask that the Devs consider this and bring back some special items that are rewards for getting involved in the story. These should be a combo of usable items for one's suit and new rare deco to please as many people as possible. Mass participation in events has the side benefit of getting folks to log in and play the game while providing an opportunity to rebuild some of UO's community spirit and interaction.

What do you all think?

-OBSIDIAN-

 

[LadyNico]

I can't help but wonder if this view - one widely held - isn't just a wee bit short sighted.

That there are no obvious rewards disclosed yet does not necessarily suggest there are no obvious rewards.

 

[retrorider]

I don't know about others but I am well and truly into this story arc.

I have many chars with loyalty to different cities, even one that works right outside your Fel Magincia House, Obsidian.

 

[Viper09]

I think you're off. I, as well as many others, are into the story arc.

 

[Miri of Sonoma]

I was into it but the town I am defending is Yew and I think it is broken. there are hardly ever any rioters and I only saw raiders there once. On top of that, the walk to the court where the guard captain is can be long.

It is just getting to be a frustrating tedious grind. I can't seem to make any progress so I will probably just stop *frowns*

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Sorry Obs, could not disagree more. There are ALOT of folks on Atl at least following the arc and trying to keep the towns "safe". As far as no potential reward goes, it has been stated the reason the loyalty was made so hard to get and to keep, was because the rewards are so great that Mesanna wanted it to be that way.

I do think the reason it appears to not be followed so closely is due to how the raids themselves work. With their being no set time table, and just being sporadic, folks are not able to set a time to be at the computer at X time to show how the following truly is like with past live events. I think if they were to say... all towns involved in the arc will be raided one at a time starting at 8 pm on X day, you would be shocked to see the numbers that would turn out.

 

[silent]

As far as no potential reward goes, it has been stated the reason the loyalty was made so hard to get and to keep, was because the rewards are so great that Mesanna wanted it to be that way.

When and where was this proverbial carrot dangled? Got a link?

 

[Uvtha]

I think no one is into it because:

a) The tasks you have to do are, after like half an hour, super boring, and repetitive. Walk walk walk, find a protester, drop food on them, walk walk walk find a rioter, rope them up, click click click click out the fire, repeat.

b) You have to do these tasks like 100000000000000000 times to get your rank to up.

c) Rank DECAYS. Why... Just why. Just sucks the fun out of an already not so fun event.

d) No clear reward/motivations. You get nothing, the city is not harmed by the fire, letting the riots and protests go on does not harm the city, or cause any other effects.

I see why people don't care.

I'm sure it will pick up, and there will be rewards/ramifications, and more interesting activities (ones certainly hopes) but as for now, there's no point to participate.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

When and where was this proverbial carrot dangled? Got a link?

Nope, sadly no link. After the Bear event that went wrong on Atlantic, Bennu held a talk at EM Hall. During that meeting he mentioned that being the case when some folks got to complaining about how hard it was to get the loyatly up. Which imo is not that hard to do *shrugs* ... Just takes a little time and effort is all.

 

[nynyve]

I am not into the story arc because I find it offensive for multiple reasons.

I do not like the civil war story theme, and am angry that the only option open to us is to take actions that are divisive--don't talk to me about what might happen later. I am not going to participate in an event I find offensive because I might like it later.

I find the arc a cheap shot at the London riots and the Occupy Wall Street Movement.

I also feel feel strongly that the poverty and hunger themes are tasteless. As someone whose family suffered terribly during the Great Depression (and yes my Father did starve as a child) and whose family also lived through a rather nasty typhoid epidemic in post war Germany, I am deeply angered and offended that hunger and disease are being treated as a special event in a game. To me it makes a mockery of these issues.

Yes UO is just a game. But trivializing human suffering for the sake of a story is inappropriate. Also characters are only allowed to help people to gain loyalty a specific town--not for the sake of doing good for its own sake. Those who might be interested in doing some real role playing and alleviating the suffering of all of the citizens of Britannia have no options.

I also feel that given the bugs in the game, and the many unfulfilled promises from the Devs, I think their time could be better spent.

And yes I do realize a lot of players will radically disagree with me.

 

[Phange_of_Phage]

I am not into the story arc because I find it offensive for multiple reasons.

I do not like the civil war story theme, and am angry that the only option open to us is to take actions that are divisive--don't talk to me about what might happen later. I am not going to participate in an event I find offensive because I might like it later.

I find the arc a cheap shot at the London riots and the Occupy Wall Street Movement.

I also feel feel strongly that the poverty and hunger themes are tasteless. As someone whose family suffered terribly during the Great Depression (and yes my Father did starve as a child) and whose family also lived through a rather nasty typhoid epidemic in post war Germany, I am deeply angered and offended that hunger and disease are being treated as a special event in a game. To me it makes a mockery of these issues.

Yes UO is just a game. But trivializing human suffering for the sake of a story is inappropriate. Also characters are only allowed to help people to gain loyalty a specific town--not for the sake of doing good for its own sake. Those who might be interested in doing some real role playing and alleviating the suffering of all of the citizens of Britannia have no options.

I also feel that given the bugs in the game, and the many unfulfilled promises from the Devs, I think their time could be better spent.

And yes I do realize a lot of players will radically disagree with me.

UO is a game but it is also a "virtual world" and these are things that happen in world events. If we go back far enough everyones family suffered through something at some point in history so I see no relevance in your complaint. Also if you havent notice 99% of Americans suffered in the Great Depression. I'm sure I had family in Russia that suffered under the rule of Ivan the Terrible, but I'm not complaining about the Monarchy style government ingame offending me...

 

[lupushor]

I am not into the story arc because I find it offensive for multiple reasons.

I do not like the civil war story theme, and am angry that the only option open to us is to take actions that are divisive--don't talk to me about what might happen later. I am not going to participate in an event I find offensive because I might like it later.

I find the arc a cheap shot at the London riots and the Occupy Wall Street Movement.

I also feel feel strongly that the poverty and hunger themes are tasteless. As someone whose family suffered terribly during the Great Depression (and yes my Father did starve as a child) and whose family also lived through a rather nasty typhoid epidemic in post war Germany, I am deeply angered and offended that hunger and disease are being treated as a special event in a game. To me it makes a mockery of these issues.

Yes UO is just a game. But trivializing human suffering for the sake of a story is inappropriate. Also characters are only allowed to help people to gain loyalty a specific town--not for the sake of doing good for its own sake. Those who might be interested in doing some real role playing and alleviating the suffering of all of the citizens of Britannia have no options.

I also feel that given the bugs in the game, and the many unfulfilled promises from the Devs, I think their time could be better spent.

And yes I do realize a lot of players will radically disagree with me.

Do you know that players actually kill each other in this game?

I do not radically disagree with you. You are so off reality I can't even begin a debate about your accusations. Sorry.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Those who might be interested in doing some real role playing and alleviating the suffering of all of the citizens of Britannia have no options.

I also feel that given the bugs in the game, and the many unfulfilled promises from the Devs, I think their time could be better spent.

As to the above posts:

1- To those that want to RP in the way you describe, sure they can. They can go from town to town feeding and passing out gold to those in the towns. If they want to carry it to the exterme then they can go to all the towns and do the same thing. If rp and fairness is your goal and not town loyalty that is.

2- I am not sure how much time the Devs themselves are actually spending on the content as from what has been posted, the EM's are highly active in this live event content and fiction.

As for most of the other points.... Seriously?? Dude, relax, it's just a game and fiction. Not everything should be hearts, candy and good. All lands go through hard times, strife and struggle. Why should Britannia be any different? I have yet to hear an outcry for all of the Gargoyle refugees in Ter Mur, so the only beings that get your degree of sympathy are the humans?

 

[nynyve]

Do you know that players actually kill each other in this game?

Sure. I have no problems with that although I don't do PVP. That is players creating and telling their own stories. Playing the game within the framework of the rules and the background to create rich virtual lives is to me what UO is all about. That's the whole point of role playing--create your own story, by yourself or with your friends. I


The "so called story arcs" are nothing more than performance art. Be a good player and do what the Devs want, and you will get a reward. It is really a matter of jumping through the hoops the Devs have set up. It is their story, not the players' since nothing the players do can affect the outcome. The Devs have already decided what is going to happen, so why bother? Story arcs turn characters into cardboard actors bound to follow a script. What's worse, is that in the past, Shards have been punished for not "playing." Yew was a swamp for years on Legends because not enough players participated in certain parts of the flavor of the month story arc. We were told "Well you didn't show up for the event when the Devs said you had to, so it is your fault Yew is a swamp."

Tell me, besides gaining town loyalty have your characters actually changed anything that is happening? That is why I am not participating--even if I took a character from city to city, distributing, food and gold, and putting out fires, what would change? Nothing. Hunger and poverty have been demoted to performance art.

In Pen and Paper rpgs we call this railroading. I didn't put up with this 35 years ago when I started playing D&D and I see no reason to change.

In a good Pen & Paper rpg characters would be able to take a situation like what is happening in UO and, for better or worse change the outcome. That is why I will never consider UO a true role playing game. Although players can create characters and stories, they have no real impact on the world and its events. And the events are decided in an office somewhere, and our reactions irrelevant.

 

[Uvtha]

I agree that actual ramifications for our actions would be nice, but no matter what we do or any options they give us its always going to be up to the game developers what happens. They code the world, so they know every possible outcome. It will always be false freedom because UO isn't a real place.

Pen and paper games allow more freedom because you are just using your imagination. You can just say whatever you want, and it happens. A DM can say "The city crumbles into the sea!" and it does. You can't just do that in video games it all has to be specifically planed out and coded/art provided.

No game in any foreseeable future will ever be like our imaginations. Thats why people still play d&d. Doesn't mean video games aren't fun.

 

[PitrGri]

Right on the money, Nynyve...

UO is about virtue... or was... now it is about gimme, gimme... so I can sell online.

Cheers!

 

[PitrGri]

They code the world, so they know every possible outcome.

Sorry to disagree... but sometimes they cant even see an elephant parked in the luna bank.

 

[Obsidian]

I took one of those gamer personality tests awhile back. I am a hardcore "achiever" which means my primary purpose in gaming is to build character skills, collect better items/gear, and defeat monsters or challenges I have not cleared before. I get to play UO about an hour a day maybe 4 or 5 times a week. There was a recent thread in UHall about "What have you not done in UO." It made me realize there were quite a few achievements that I still needed to accomplish in UO. I actually sat down while I was flying back from a business trip this week and made a big list of what I want to do.

So the way my calculus goes for this Event Arc is that I can spend hours trying to raise my loyalty rating in a town. I will not "achieve" anything tangible that helps me fight better. There is a possibility there will be a reward in the future, but that is most certainly undefined. Also, loyalty decays. Or the other option is I can work to solo some of the champs, peerless, and other bosses I've not yet done. I can put in the same amount of time and walk away with a fair shot of getting a helpful artifact, a needed power scroll, or gain skill on my characters. In my personal opinion, this is a better use of my time. I know not all will have the same math as me and that is perfectly fine. But I suspect there are many other "achiever" personality types in game that feel much the same way as I do. 4-5 hrs per week is not a lot of time in UO... I want to be as effective as possible during my limited playtime.

-OBSIDIAN-

 

[Uvtha]

Right on the money, Nynyve...

UO is about virtue... or was... now it is about gimme, gimme... so I can sell online.

Cheers!

Correction. ULTIMA was about the virtues. UO is not, and never has been about the virtues. Ever. It has, from day one, been about gimmie gimmie gimmie, I assure you.

The only virtues in UO are the ones people adhere to voluntarily. The in game ones are a joke on many levels.

 

[Uvtha]

Sorry to disagree... but sometimes they cant even see an elephant parked in the luna bank.

Are you disagreeing that the code makes up the world and every possible outcome you can enjoy? Are you disagreeing that they are the only ones who alter the code?

 

[Sevin0oo0]

I thought it started off great! First couple days were interesting, mostly because I was starving for something New. I don't think the 'real' new will be here for another 3-4months. They said this event runs until Sept., I think something happens Then. Grimm's schedule was full for 6mths solid awhile back, and of course they have to design months ahead of release. This whole thing reeks of EM filler content, imo. No offense, but it's cheesy, and a grind, a boring grind at that. If there was actual content, they'd release more information about it, and if it's really that big of a f'n secret, they can keep it. There's plenty else to play without all that.

retro tv > event

 

[Bobar]

No reward?. It seems to me that those of us unfortunate to have become involved in the endless rounds of arrest, extinguishing fires and clearing rubbish are highly likely to obtain a reward we don't want in the form of RSI.

Having been given no information with regard to the amount of loyalty we get for each of these actions and no means of observing the progress of that loyalty (as you can with the Gargoyle Queen) both of which seem an obvious shortfall in terms of generating interest in these actions.

The also obvious excessive decay rate is another story arc killer.

I bring these points up as I was idly wondering how many clicks of the mouse it might take to get a chars loyalty to Venerated just clearing rubbish and dousing fires.

Any offers?

 

[Uvtha]

Having been given no information with regard to the amount of loyalty we get for each of these actions and no means of observing the progress of that loyalty (as you can with the Gargoyle Queen) both of which seem an obvious shortfall in terms of generating interest in these actions.

I really wish they would pick a lane in regard to this. It's obnoxious that in the some loyalty some things are transparent and then in other extremely similar loyalty set ups are not. Just pick one or the other.

 

[O'Brien]

I for one radically AGREE with nynyve, for all of her observations and more.

Off the top of my head, UO used to have a traditional conflict between Order and Chaos. One should be able to take actions siding with the protesters and receive equal benefits for doing so. And no, murdering protesters isn't representative of Chaos.

I could go on and on but yeah. It's just more of the same with every so-called "story arc." And no, I'm not complaining about new content. I'm complaining about content that isn't creative or fitting. EMs should stop trying to write stories and instead hire a real writer who will come up with a plot that is truly engaging and fits into Ultima style and history. That way, those of us who love UO can have something new to be proud of rather than be embarrassed about.

Otherwise resources are much better spent fixing bugs than corrupting the game with these weak, offensive, inappropriate, unfitting, contradictory, nonsensical, etc. so-called "story arcs."

And yes, if I don't like it, I won't participate in it.

I am not into the story arc because I find it offensive for multiple reasons.

I do not like the civil war story theme, and am angry that the only option open to us is to take actions that are divisive--don't talk to me about what might happen later. I am not going to participate in an event I find offensive because I might like it later.

I find the arc a cheap shot at the London riots and the Occupy Wall Street Movement.

I also feel feel strongly that the poverty and hunger themes are tasteless. As someone whose family suffered terribly during the Great Depression (and yes my Father did starve as a child) and whose family also lived through a rather nasty typhoid epidemic in post war Germany, I am deeply angered and offended that hunger and disease are being treated as a special event in a game. To me it makes a mockery of these issues.

Yes UO is just a game. But trivializing human suffering for the sake of a story is inappropriate. Also characters are only allowed to help people to gain loyalty a specific town--not for the sake of doing good for its own sake. Those who might be interested in doing some real role playing and alleviating the suffering of all of the citizens of Britannia have no options.

I also feel that given the bugs in the game, and the many unfulfilled promises from the Devs, I think their time could be better spent.

And yes I do realize a lot of players will radically disagree with me.

 

[pgib]

It is just getting to be a frustrating tedious grind.

This.

Click click click walk walk walk click click click walk walk walk... and nothing changes... click click click walk walk walk click click click... and nothing changes...

I'm doing it but... it isn't very enjoyable so far.

 

[NuSair]

I am not doing it atm because of the decay. Why spend time doing it now, when it will just wear away, and in the future I can work it up.

 

[Uvtha]

I think the problem isn't the story so much as the crappy in game systems that we use to interact in the story.

Also I think it has a lot to do with people STARVING for new content, then getting roughly a days worth of content for 3-4 weeks waiting for the next stage.

I understand the realities of the dev situation, I think we all should at this point, and understand we aren't going to get any thing massive and impressive and that's fine, but they could really go about what we do get in a much better way.

p.s. Order and Chaos never meant anything in game outside of allowing you to pvp with people for no reason other than the fun of pvp. That is all it ever did.

 

[Uvtha]

I am not doing it atm because of the decay. Why spend time doing it now, when it will just wear away, and in the future I can work it up.

Agree. I was doing it to take half hour breaks from working on other irl things, but with the decay, that is just a waste of time.

Decay was a terrible terrible idea. No other loyalty decays. Why does town loyalty.

 

[Aibal]

I would be MUCH more into it if there wasn't decay. Sorry, but I play too many characters on too many shards to spend 10's of hours working up their loyalty in a city, and then hours each day maintaining it. It's a tedious, ridiculous grind. Sorry, I want to have fun, not grind. JMO.

 

[Wizal the Fox]

I agree with what has been said several times: it is pointless to do anything that decays.

It is not even the grind the issue, as I have even done the Tier Quests up to the top, but decay removes all sense of achievement.

 

[O'Brien]

I
p.s. Order and Chaos never meant anything in game outside of allowing you to pvp with people for no reason other than the fun of pvp. That is all it ever did.

I guess you are right from a game mechanics perspective. However at least for roleplayers and others interested in the game's backstory, Chaos, Order and the Virtues, were once an encompassing philosophical system. Unfortunately it is largely ignored, as demonstrated with the current "story arc" and unfinished, counterintuitive "virtue" system.

It really is a shame because instead of making peaceful Towns that always got along before now oppose eachother, they could have really come up with something that centered around philosophical morality issues like any good RPG.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Decay was a terrible terrible idea. No other loyalty decays. Why does town loyalty.

To me, loyalty should decay. Maybe the rate could be lowered a little to prevent some of the folks from giving up, i don't know, I have not dropped a level on any char yet *shrugs*. You demonstrate loyalty on a continued basis. Not working to point X and stopping. That just shows an occasional loyalty, or loyalty for ones own agenda. From an rp and fiction based standpoint, the loyalty that should be awarded is the continual type. What better way to make sure THAT type of loyalty is rewarded other than making it have a decay rate.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

I'm really torn on this arc. As I've said before, I want to like it.

I'm enjoying the EM version of the story, since it actually HAS a story - not just "OMG! Rebellion!"

But... The 'static' in-game content is incredibly boring and repetitive. I got up to Adored in Yew (of all places.. ugh) the second day the publish hit production. I'm STILL Adored even after not participating in any arrests or feeding protesters for over a week... I lost interest. As an RPer, I know I should want to clean up and protect Yew... But... 7 months of this just doesn't sound appealing. I can't bring myself to log in and pretend this is "fun."

We know there will be "rewards" in the future. Allegedly, Mesanna said that gaining loyalty should be hard because they are cool. Uhm. Right. I guess we'll be the judge of that whenever it is that said rewards are revealed, however, I'm more then prepared to be let down. *shrugs*

The loyalty decay is yet another reason to feel apathy towards this arc, or at least this particular phase of it. Decay is a mechanic Mythic seems to use far too often and it only ends up angering or depressing the players. Most people play UO casually these days, a daily decay hit isn't fun.

Game Design Rule of Thumb: If you ask your self "Is this system FUN?" and can respond with "No" or "Not really..." then you can expect your users to respond with "Hell no!" and "WTF were you thinking?!" Games need to be fun. Tedium doesn't equal fun OR challenging.

As an RPer, I understand why they don't show a numerical value for the loyalty rating. However, since we can ONLY see our own rating, this was a questionable design choice at best. Personally, I would rather see a number for a hidden stat. It allows me to feel some measure of satisfaction that I've "done good" or whatever. A title that doesn't move for 500+ arrests doesn't give me that satisfaction. The best of both worlds would be to alter the loyalty screen so you see something like "Adored (490)" or some such. That way you see the title AND you can watch the progression. This would help with a little of the tedium. Players would feel that they have accomplished something by going from 490 to 550.

Still, if they expect more people to partake of this content, they need to up the spawn of event NPCs and take the PCP away from the raiders (they are a bit overpowered).

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

...You demonstrate loyalty on a continued basis. Not working to point X and stopping. That just shows an occasional loyalty, or loyalty for ones own agenda...

Perhaps if there was some measurable show of what the loyalty means (no, I don't mean rewards) or if there was something in-game that showed having X-number of people loyal to X-city actually made a difference, you would be right.

Right now, the only in-game reason to "show" loyalty to a city is one's one aganda.

 

[MalagAste]

From an RP stand-point I feel "compelled" as it were to participate though I find the grind incredibly tedious and unrewarding.

From a player stand-point the fun/wow factor of the event is severely lacking. If it weren't for the excellent job of GL's EM's I honestly wouldn't care at all... I don't have a "town" per-say in-game as my "town" is my own of Newcastle Township... which despite all the other crazy business remains loyal to Virtue. However I'm bored already and we are barely into the event.

I didn't even hardly log into game this weekend. Just couldn't bring myself to endure more tedium.

I'm inclined to agree with a few in that if there were some tangible something from all the work I might be more motivated. But for now my motivation is at an all time low. I log in no one is on no one wants to do much I log out. No visible title is gained... no rewards are to be had yet... everyone is bored of it in the first few days.

I'm also thinking we tried to hold an event as a "fund raiser" for the poor folk... you know it was hard but I'm thinking a whole 5 or 6 folk actually showed up... That to me speaks volumes.

 

[silent]

I think the root of the problem is this event is not fun in any way right now. And if the end result is more pixel crack most in the game have what we need, or in some cases more than they need. So why participate if it's not fun and we don't need the reward at the end?

 

[Carharrt]

I personally am not interested in the fires and whatnot right now. Sure,the carrots in the front of the mule with the promise that town loyalty will mean something someday. Right now its just a bunch more clicking for nothing.

Not gonna waste my time everyday re-pumpin up my loyalty just cuz it dropped over night. I`ll worry about it when town loyalty matters and theres a reason for doing it.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

I'm also thinking we tried to hold an event as a "fund raiser" for the poor folk... you know it was hard but I'm thinking a whole 5 or 6 folk actually showed up... That to me speaks volumes.

Had I not been in a Nyquil-induced coma, I would have been there

Player events not being well-attended outside members of their respective communities is an unintended side effect of the EM Program. Player events with a few mil or artifacts as prizes can't compete with EM events where someone has the potential to "win" a 100+ mil item.

Some player events are more successful than others... Galen's crusades against Virtuebane were quite well attended. However, that was a far more dynamic event arc compared with what we have been presented so far. There was an objective evil to fight.

So far, this rebellion arc just has disaffected protesters whining about money/food, imbecilic rioters acting like children, and poorly explained raiders. Even the most generous and dedicated socially-minded real-life people won't continue to blindly give without expecting those receiving to attempt to better their own lives at some point. *shrugs*

 

[Uvtha]

I guess you are right from a game mechanics perspective. However at least for roleplayers and others interested in the game's backstory, Chaos, Order and the Virtues, were once an encompassing philosophical system. Unfortunately it is largely ignored, as demonstrated with the current "story arc" and unfinished, counterintuitive "virtue" system.

It really is a shame because instead of making peaceful Towns that always got along before now oppose eachother, they could have really come up with something that centered around philosophical morality issues like any good RPG.

The only evidence I ever saw of any Order vs Chaos RP was anti pk guilds. When the safe zone opened up it went bye bye.

I do agree no dev team has ever made an effort to try to build upon the virtues, but I think its a much harder thing to do in a non single player game.

I really wish there was another way to make a down dislike you than killing protesters.

But that could very well be coming.

Honestly my main complain about the current event is that this small part of it has gone on for so long, and for who knows how much longer. They need to move on to the more interesting stages.

 

[Uvtha]

We know there will be "rewards" in the future. Allegedly, Mesanna said that gaining loyalty should be hard because they are cool. Uhm. Right. I guess we'll be the judge of that whenever it is that said rewards are revealed, however, I'm more then prepared to be let down. *shrugs*

Yeah, same here. We have been getting promises of "amazing things coming soon!" for like years. Only to have zilch to show for it. So when I hear promises of awesome things coming, I take it with a grain of salt.

The loyalty decay is yet another reason to feel apathy towards this arc, or at least this particular phase of it. Decay is a mechanic Mythic seems to use far too often and it only ends up angering or depressing the players. Most people play UO casually these days, a daily decay hit isn't fun.

Game Design Rule of Thumb: If you ask your self "Is this system FUN?" and can respond with "No" or "Not really..." then you can expect your users to respond with "Hell no!" and "WTF were you thinking?!" Games need to be fun. Tedium doesn't equal fun OR challenging.

Bingo.

As an RPer, I understand why they don't show a numerical value for the loyalty rating. However, since we can ONLY see our own rating, this was a questionable design choice at best. Personally, I would rather see a number for a hidden stat. It allows me to feel some measure of satisfaction that I've "done good" or whatever. A title that doesn't move for 500+ arrests doesn't give me that satisfaction. The best of both worlds would be to alter the loyalty screen so you see something like "Adored (490)" or some such. That way you see the title AND you can watch the progression. This would help with a little of the tedium. Players would feel that they have accomplished something by going from 490 to 550.

I personally am fine with no numerical rating. The only thing that makes it annoying is that everything else DOES have one. So when they put in systems that are opaque its a bit frustrating.

Just pick one and stick with it.

Also, as you say more levels of progression would be much welcomed. If someone didnt read UO.com they could think respected was the limit after hours of clicking fires with no title change.

Still, if they expect more people to partake of this content, they need to up the spawn of event NPCs and take the PCP away from the raiders (they are a bit overpowered).

I've yet to even see a raider. True I haven't been at it much, but still.

 

[Miri of Sonoma]

Something that has bothered me from the beginning about this story line is that you are discouraged from helping out in other towns. My paladin is protecting Yew because she lives just east of the town and because well it is her town. However, being a paladin who always tries to uphold the virtues, when she hears that another town is being invaded, she wants to go and help! But I don't let her because I know it would hurt her loyalty to Yew. To me this goes against everything she is supposed to stand for...she would go to other towns to, at the very least, beat back the raiders.

So instead, I make her continue to run around the forest looking for practically non-existent rioters and feeding protestors and I suppose progressing (because she has been adored for a looooong time).

Perhaps, I should just let her do what she knows she should do and she will have to deal with any consequences that might arise. It might make this more enjoyable. At least I would feel better about her remaining true to who she is. After all, she is also loyal to Sosaria and while defending Yew comes first, she feels she is obligated to also defend any town in trouble.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Something that has bothered me from the beginning about this story line is that you are discouraged from helping out in other towns. My paladin is protecting Yew because she lives just east of the town and because well it is her town. However, being a paladin who always tries to uphold the virtues, when she hears that another town is being invaded, she wants to go and help! But I don't let her because I know it would hurt her loyalty to Yew. To me this goes against everything she is supposed to stand for...she would go to other towns to, at the very least, beat back the raiders.

I agree with you there. You can not even go heal those in another town that is being raided which you are not loyal too because you, will gain loyalty in that town. I place the blame for this on the new healing looting rights tho, not the design of the raids in general. Could be wrong tho...

 

[PitrGri]

Our Characters are becoming followers of Bigotry... haha funny.

 

[PitrGri]

Correction. ULTIMA was about the virtues. UO is not, and never has been about the virtues. Ever. It has, from day one, been about gimmie gimmie gimmie, I assure you.

The only virtues in UO are the ones people adhere to voluntarily. The in game ones are a joke on many levels.

I guess we were playing different games then...

 

[PitrGri]

Are you disagreeing that the code makes up the world and every possible outcome you can enjoy? Are you disagreeing that they are the only ones who alter the code?

I am saying that we change the shards with our vision and the Devs add code to implement those changes... translating into unique shard buildings and history.

If you dont think I am right, please visit the shards and compare them... you will see each shard true nature by watching what was added along the past decade... then you get to look and read about each different building... if you are lucky you get to know its purpose... and the guild or guilds behind such change...

We made UO what it is now... either by ingame playing, board crying or direct access to the devs ears (which I do not)...


About the Devs knowing what they are doing... for the past years I have noticed that sometimes a fix will ruin alot more that was ok... like if the blanket cant cover the chest and the feet... and the devs do their best to pull it up and down... but something keeps getting exposed...

I hope I was clear.

 

[Aran]

Skipping most of the posts in the thread because my eyes started to roll really early on...

I'm curious.. why do so many people rely on shiny trinkets to do anything? Is your worldview so narrow that you can only focus on "WHAT BENEFITS ME IMMEDIATELY?!?!?!" and ignore everything else?

 

[Sean]

Skipping most of the posts in the thread because my eyes started to roll really early on...

I'm curious.. why do so many people rely on shiny trinkets to do anything? Is your worldview so narrow that you can only focus on "WHAT BENEFITS ME IMMEDIATELY?!?!?!" and ignore everything else?

Amen brother.....

 

[Shelleybean]

Well if the devs don't realize by now how much players enjoy shiny new loot, then they never will. That's probably a big reason why players aren't interested right now anyway. For me it's because there's not really a lot to do and the actions I do take will become meaningless with decay. Putting out fires and dropping food on citizens was neat the first hour or so, but after that it's somewhat boring. I've only seen raiders once in Skara Brae. I don't have tons of time to play, so I'm doing other things. I'm waiting to see if anything else will happen and maybe I can make up for lost time later on.

 

[NuSair]

To me, loyalty should decay. Maybe the rate could be lowered a little to prevent some of the folks from giving up, i don't know, I have not dropped a level on any char yet *shrugs*. You demonstrate loyalty on a continued basis. Not working to point X and stopping. That just shows an occasional loyalty, or loyalty for ones own agenda. From an rp and fiction based standpoint, the loyalty that should be awarded is the continual type. What better way to make sure THAT type of loyalty is rewarded other than making it have a decay rate.

And as a game play mechanic, it makes no sense, to have something a player can build up, then decays, and yet has no benefit.

I've highlighted the part in your own post that doesn't make sense, there is no award for doing it, so imo having it decay at this point is asinine.

It doesn't even make sense in a role play or fiction stand point. You can do both without having people build up loyalty (and really, you aren't building up loyalty as much as you are building up good/bad will of the townsfolk, unless they are referring to the town's loyalty to you). And you don't even get a title that anyone can see - so, having it decay DOESN'T make sense even in a role play/fiction stand point (at this time).

 

[NuSair]

IF I was an EM- and honestly, I haven't been following this on the shards or doing any EM events for a while now- I would have some rioters attack the player towns- sure you don't build loyalty, but you want to engage the players, make them feel they are a part of it- have their player towns over run.

And it doesn't have do to anything other than that- people will love it.