Tamer-Archer -uncommon temps

[krilov]

let me say i've never been an archer..so really got no idea if what i'll say is bullsh1t..btw i was thinking of tamer archer:

120 - Archery
120 - bushido
110 - Tact
110 - Taming
110 - Lore
120 - chiv

30 free points +20 if u use hunter = 50 points maybe in vet or medit
(btw..how u reach Fc4 on an archer?! i mean...fc2 from jewels fc1 from bow then? the elf helm 2/1? but then no hunter?)


Or something like

100 archery +20hunter
80 tattica
115 magery
110 taming
110 lore
80necro
ss 60
65chiva

can work? thinking of necro for using wraith trying to recover some mana while hitting?!
Or even lich form for some mana reg.

I guess slayers bows are almost a must...but wich one to choose? Wich property would u suggest?
I was looking at yumi or composite (cuz of funny specials) or magical shortbows..cuz they are quite fast i guess.

 

[Wolfman]

let me say i've never been an archer..so really got no idea if what i'll say is bullsh1t..btw i was thinking of tamer archer:

120 - Archery
120 - bushido
110 - Tact
110 - Taming
110 - Lore
120 - chiv

30 free points +20 if u use hunter = 50 points maybe in vet or medit
(btw..how u reach Fc4 on an archer?! i mean...fc2 from jewels fc1 from bow then? the elf helm 2/1? but then no hunter?)


Or something like

100 archery +20hunter
80 tattica
115 magery
110 taming
110 lore
80necro
ss 60
65chiva

can work? thinking of necro for using wraith trying to recover some mana while hitting?!
Or even lich form for some mana reg.

I guess slayers bows are almost a must...but wich one to choose? Wich property would u suggest?
I was looking at yumi or composite (cuz of funny specials) or magical shortbows..cuz they are quite fast i guess.

Tactics should be 90 (both weapon specials available)
Magery is a waste in my opinion since you will use chiv spells all the time anyways....use the points for high chiv and or spirit speak to get the curse weapon duration up (I run the second template so that is the one I am refering to). Valid and great template in my opinion!

 

[pgib]

warrior tamers are great fun to play but because you have no way to effectively heal you pet you have to fight bigger stuff in groups. And with the cronical lack of players we have it can end up being a quite frustrating experience.

 

[krilov]

Tactics should be 90 (both weapon specials available)
Magery is a waste in my opinion since you will use chiv spells all the time anyways....use the points for high chiv and or spirit speak to get the curse weapon duration up (I run the second template so that is the one I am refering to). Valid and great template in my opinion!

my main idea was having magery for being able to heal from far but yea it could be dropped down.
My main doubt was about the wraith form and if an archer could recover enough mana through it.
About bows...i'm starting to love magical shortbows; they 're fast and they got a really cool (imo) aoe special:chain light;
As pgib said...efficent healing is out of question but still the fun of playing it wins.

MAy i know your setup dude?

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Have messsed around with the Melee Tamer for a quite few years now, finally decided to stick with the Archer/Tamer 4 years ago tho. The one I found that works the best is

GM Anatomy
115 Lore
115 Taming
120 Archery
90 Chiv (since the chiv changes a while back)
GM Healing
105 Tactics
110 Vet

Yepp, 855 skillpoints. It was a really hard temp to do prior to imbuing, I spent hours and hours looking for the right jewls to make it work. Now it's easy as heck. But is a fun temp to play with. And imo NO tamer should run around without Vet. One of the reasons they should include vet in the control chance of tames.

 

[krilov]

and with wich bow do u go around bro?

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

If I had to pick only one I would stick to the comp bow. But really I have no favorite. It really depends on the situation and critter I am going after. At times the magical shortbow for the speed, at times an xbow for mortal wound, when I used to run in Fel I always packed a fast heavy xbow for the dismount and very nice comp bow for the AI. Needless to say, the chest that holds my bows is dang near full to capacity.

 

[krilov]

yea so many specials and all of them cool....how u deal with mana probs? don't u suffer a lot?

 

[krilov]

i've been doing some tests around...especially in order to choose the skills.
It's really a pain in the ass.

So far i'm more oriented with something like

taming 110
lore 100
vet 80
archery 100 (+20 hunter)
tattics 90
chiva 70

There are 160 free points to use.
From what i've seen anatomy does not make a real huge difference in dmg.
Bushido on the contrary seems great; cheap mana skills, chance to do critics, luck boost, honor, evasion, confidence.

So i was thinking of 120bushido
Then the rest of points on chiva? hoping to bring it to 120 with some jewels boost/talisman?
Or maybe going around with just 90 bushido?
Or dunno any other idea on how to invest that 160 points?

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

From what I remember there are pretty big drawbacks to using Bushido and Archery together. You may want to look into that deeper before wasting your time on building a skill just to watch it drop.

 

[krilov]

uhm as far as i remember with just 50bushi u can just use light strike but u got 0 chance of doing critics..at 90bushi u get 10% and at 120 it's 20%.
Tbh, going around with just 50 seems quite useless.
And the diff between 90 and 120 bushi seems quite huge: at 120 u get 20% chance for a critic that means every 5hits u should do 1 critic.Thinking of using super slayer bows it starts to be a lot dmg.
Without talking about having hci capped tnx to ls.That means i can focus on other properties on ma jewels.

the idea of 120 chiva was for using dispel evil. in order to use it whenever you are surrounded by many mobs or (maybe) for saving your pet's life too.
For sure, mana seems to fly literally!

in your temp u used healing and therefore anat too...it's good 4sure but i'm stil in doubt.I mean, i would use it more for saving ma mana than for saving ma life.I got the feeling that's fking slow as healing.(even considering all the good sides it has and that i recognize ).
What 's your opinion? Have u ever tried to use bushi in your temp?

 

[Vyal]

If this is a pvp archer tamer.
of course there are two ways to run a pvp tamer archer.
1 way is what I call a first strike temp. Massive amounts of damage enough to drop even the best tank in two seconds flat using these skills taming/lore/vet anatomy/healing archery/tactics - I use a beetle & nightmare fully trained and use UOA for the dismount remount macro. Dismount pop dismount with a heavy that is setup for tons of damage - toss focus on it with the gem. Between dismount hit spell velocity the focus effect, your beetles armor corruption & your mares phys dmg & like 60% chance of DP your target should die very very fast if not instantly.

Second would be something like a archer setup in a bestial suit with resists rather then healing. Set the suit up and tune it to the way you like it. Take off vet and drop anatomy to 80 and tactics to 90. Put on ninja & hiding. Use some killer EP jewels and chug. All guard me, dismount - AI using a GD and follow that up with running shots with a fast heavy, if you get really low HP some how ninja form using your fox form for the STR HP bonus. That helps out with the bestial suit. Pop smoke let your dragon tank, heal up & head back in.

PVM archer I would say do this.
Be a human for joat skills, and set ur temp up as follows. Taming/Lore/Archery/Tactics/Natomy-80/Healing-80/Vet-80/chiv keep a insured pendant of the magi on you, cast wraith form using the pendant till you get into form using ur leet human joat skills. Get urself some good mana leech slayer comps. All kill with a GD stand behind him and AI the heck out of your target while your GD tanks and you vet him. You should be able to use non stop AI's, if you have problems keeping your mana up do it like this- AI, conc wep(chiv), AI repeat.. That will negate the dbl mana usage on the second AI. Good Yumi's and DBL shot work well also.

& people will cry about all kill when you slaughter them in a second.

 

[krilov]

Vyal dude..really good tips...i've tested a bit what u suggested (about pvm)

actually i tested it with 2 chars: 1 common pure archer and the other one that will be tamer. (i repeat i'm going to make that tamer just cuz i love so much tamers and i like to explore and try new things -whenever i need to do serious things i use my other main tamers.This is more 4 fun than else.)

Both archer are still in progress but let's say their main difference is

100 archery
100 anatomy
100 tattics
90+bushido
vs
(tamer)

115 archery
86 tattics
no anatomy

Now, the formula for the wraith form leeching mana is: ss/5 = % of DMG = mana points leeched.
With ss 120 u leech 24% DMG done as mana.
i tested the wraith form on "the common template" with just 14ss (he's elf - elfs look too sexy dude ^.^)
DI was lowered too in order to make that test working..not a big difference but well, still a difference in terms of mana leeched with my full items.

Btw, 14/5 is 2+% of ma dmg done. Sounds really low.And it is.
If u do 100dmg, it means u leech 2mana points.Isn't that bad...but it's low.

Anyway i was surprised how good it worked especially with bows (not slayer too)that have mana leech.
I've tried diff type of bows...a damned crap looted yumi too with just 30 Di, 20 ml. LOL the yumi was hitting almost the same of compo bow slayer 40DI
and i was recovering about 10mana points each time.
Without talking about armor pierce skill - amazing and really cheap (in terms of mana)
WIth neither 20 ss i could almost spam armor pierce+chiva spells. LOL.
Too bad DBL Shot do not work under wraith form xD

Then i tried the same with my "tamer".
Let's say from 100+ dmg switched to 60-80.
And ofc less mana leeched too.It seemed like using the "common templ" in wraith form but without a mana leech bow.I mean with the common templ. i was leeching mana even using just a slayer bow without mana leech.
Here i had mana probs using only EoO, cons. armr etc. LOL
The funny thing was i was leeching more mana(almost 2x more mana) using a not slayer composite but with mana leech than a slayer bow without mana leech. even if there was a quite big diff in dmg done.
This make me think that here Anat > bushido.
As told u...got 160 points to play with: 80 anat 80 heal sounds really logical..but what if one uses 120 ss and 40 points somewherelse ( i guess 30 on tattics so it goes to 120 and 10..lol no idea..maybe vet, maybe medit, maybe chiva)?
i mean yea healing is healing but even doing just 70dmg with ss 120 u gain back 16+mana points (regardless of ML on bow) and a lot more with a mana leech bow.
This should ensure you always high mana even during some spam session of obul vulni..no? too crazy eh? XD

 

[Vyal]

Vyal dude..really good tips...i've tested a bit what u suggested (about pvm)

actually i tested it with 2 chars: 1 common pure archer and the other one that will be tamer. (i repeat i'm going to make that tamer just cuz i love so much tamers and i like to explore and try new things -whenever i need to do serious things i use my other main tamers.This is more 4 fun than else.)

Both archer are still in progress but let's say their main difference is

100 archery
100 anatomy
100 tattics
90+bushido
vs
(tamer)

115 archery
86 tattics
no anatomy

Now, the formula for the wraith form leeching mana is: ss/5 = % of DMG = mana points leeched.
With ss 120 u leech 24% DMG done as mana.
i tested the wraith form on "the common template" with just 14ss (he's elf - elfs look too sexy dude ^.^)
DI was lowered too in order to make that test working..not a big difference but well, still a difference in terms of mana leeched with my full items.

Btw, 14/5 is 2+% of ma dmg done. Sounds really low.And it is.
If u do 100dmg, it means u leech 2mana points.Isn't that bad...but it's low.

Anyway i was surprised how good it worked especially with bows (not slayer too)that have mana leech.
I've tried diff type of bows...a damned crap looted yumi too with just 30 Di, 20 ml. LOL the yumi was hitting almost the same of compo bow slayer 40DI
and i was recovering about 10mana points each time.
Without talking about armor pierce skill - amazing and really cheap (in terms of mana)
WIth neither 20 ss i could almost spam armor pierce+chiva spells. LOL.
Too bad DBL Shot do not work under wraith form xD

Then i tried the same with my "tamer".
Let's say from 100+ dmg switched to 60-80.
And ofc less mana leeched too.It seemed like using the "common templ" in wraith form but without a mana leech bow.I mean with the common templ. i was leeching mana even using just a slayer bow without mana leech.
Here i had mana probs using only EoO, cons. armr etc. LOL
The funny thing was i was leeching more mana(almost 2x more mana) using a not slayer composite but with mana leech than a slayer bow without mana leech. even if there was a quite big diff in dmg done.
This make me think that here Anat > bushido.
As told u...got 160 points to play with: 80 anat 80 heal sounds really logical..but what if one uses 120 ss and 40 points somewherelse ( i guess 30 on tattics so it goes to 120 and 10..lol no idea..maybe vet, maybe medit, maybe chiva)?
i mean yea healing is healing but even doing just 70dmg with ss 120 u gain back 16+mana points (regardless of ML on bow) and a lot more with a mana leech bow.
This should ensure you always high mana even during some spam session of obul vulni..no? too crazy eh? XD

Well the problem with a elf or gargoyle is they don't have joat necro, meaning you will need +20 necro on jewels and what I have found out recently is you will fall out of wraith form if you take those jewels off. I thought that was only for vampire form but it's for wraith also. With 30 tactics you will not be able to use AI. So that will not even be a option. You should not need bushido AT ALL. As you should be spamming AI or dbl shot in wraith form and not lightning strike. What I found is lightning strike works best on a true sammy with a very fast weapon. You have a good base idea. But like I said you will need over 90 tactics and weapon skill (real) to use AI. Spamming AI in wraITH form with a mana leech bow even with 0 SS you should still be able to kill anything at all in the game by using a greater as a tank and standing behind it and vetting. I basically used this same temp with 0 SS and joat necro, after I would raid someone I would toss on a vermi toss a pendant on and pop into wraith form and spam AI on baracoon. Now you add a greater to that you should be able to drop anything with the right weps.

Anyways GL.

 

[krilov]

yea dude, when i talked about 30 points on tattics i mean to add these 30 to the base 90 tattic of the template i was thinking of.

so it was:

taming 110
lore 110
vet 80
archery 100 (+20 hunter)
tattics 90
chiva 70

here we got 160 point left: let's say 30 on tattics so--120 tattics and then
130 somewherelse.
And i thought why not 120 ss?
I know i'll do less dmg but the pet will cover that gap.
IMO what's important is having mana and as pointed before 120 ss ensure 24% dmg returned as mana points. That's really a lot of mana even if u do low dmg.
If u add a ML bow the mana recovered is really a lot.And that's should ensure me always high mana lvls even when i need to spam cures/heal with just chiva.

An other tamer of mine uses just chiva and no resspell; and i really got not prob at all in both healing me and my pets.
So that's why i was in doubt about using 80points on the healing skill.
Even if ..(right now) i'm thinking that whenever i need to vet my pet, standing close to the mob..that healing+balanced bow for pots..could make things easier... PFf fking hard decisions....
Bushido as u said too becomes quite useless but there would be evasion that could be really usefull in a template like that; Too bad i got just 720 points to play with xD

About bonuses on bow, i guess it must have SSI, DI, ML at least; Low Def probably; stamin reg would be cool too if u think of going on foot,then slayer, balanced...LOL