You didn't bring Siege into the conversation because you knew how it would make your opinion on any other shard invalid.
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Little Love for Fel PLZ!
- Thread starter Hi my name is
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R
Resource Gathererer
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I'm surprised they haven't taken down that shard. I forgot such an awful shard existed, no wonder it takes you 2 years 8 months 12 days to build a suit.
Not to disagree, but both Fel & Pvp need tweaks/improvements IMO "Fel" needs more improvements than pvp.
Pvp, needs some adjustments more so than changes IMO.
I would say Weapons need some sort of re-balance (pvp) this "could" effect the over all numbers of pvpers.. But...
IMO, it wouldn't make as big of an impact of something added exclusively to fel, as this would bring both pvpers & some non-pvpers.
Pvp is Almost perfect IMO with the exceptions of (the Orange Petal effect w/Poisoning (should be removed). & Throwing weapons being toned down about 2-4 base damage would be ideal)
kelmo
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I will put Siege population up against almost any other Shard's Fel population as numbers go. I did say almost...
R
Resource Gathererer
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Lol..Any shards Fel population? I'm sure if Siege had Trammel you would be there sitting there crying about how awful Siege is with the other 2 people that play.
You're putting the population of an entire shard up against the population of 1/5 of a shard. I think you lose by default.
There we go fixed it for ya.
R
Resource Gathererer
Guest
Kelmo gave a tour of Siege and posted it on Youtube...LETS WATCH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u618TWAOKQ
I IS DUNE 2 I HAD MY PIECE OF 3.14 GUD DAY SIRE
This is actually another point, of UO going downhill in the "pvp" world, in most cases (Even when i played siege from LBR-mid SE) it wasn't even comparable, siege had so few people compared to prodo shards (in fel), and you know what?
Power Scrolls were still pretty big at that time. (possible proof, adding things exclusively to fel brings attention?)
Easing the tension phase - - -
If you don't pvp, I'll tell you this, Numbers mean a lot in pvp, if you take 6-8 people with you to do a peerless, take 6-8 people with you to do a fel spawn, and just target the same (enemy target) ,stay grouped up with your friends, and It wouldn't be so bad.
It's pretty upsetting that someone (I) have to explain how to zerg & have a fair chance to succeed as a non-pvper in the pvp world (with friends). It wont always work, but you won't know untill you try.
Rofl, Looks like there was a fair bit of "Stand-blocking", at the door to the store there.
You're absolutely right. =]
Wow, can you imagine how depressing Siege must have been BEFORE they added mannequins??
Fel is ok..
Only thing different between Fel and Tram is you can kill other people not guilded in Fel..
Fel has same monsters other then some bosses and resources..you dont have some rare elemant that makes powerfull weaps..
You have power scrolls that have flooded Tram to a point were its not a reason for people to go farm them in Fel themselfs.
Resources are doubled , yes , but thats it..
As for PvP it needs some fixes...heal scripts and and no stam lost running trough mobs..
When you see someone walking into crates and pass trough them something is wrong , and no its not lag..
As for faction...having towns you can invade is nice..and the gear people try for is handy but ...
You will se players farm points to get it then sit in Luna all day...
Now were in that is pvp concerned items for Fel?
Make over land Fel toggleble for PvP,,but soon as you get in a dungeon thats it..its all out war..
Same for over land spawn champ areas..
But Kelmo is rite...Fel dosent need anything else that Tram dosent have..accept a fix in were you seemed concerned..PVP and Factions..
Only thing different between Fel and Tram is you can kill other people not guilded in Fel..
Fel has same monsters other then some bosses and resources..you dont have some rare elemant that makes powerfull weaps..
You have power scrolls that have flooded Tram to a point were its not a reason for people to go farm them in Fel themselfs.
Resources are doubled , yes , but thats it..
As for PvP it needs some fixes...heal scripts and and no stam lost running trough mobs..
When you see someone walking into crates and pass trough them something is wrong , and no its not lag..
As for faction...having towns you can invade is nice..and the gear people try for is handy but ...
You will se players farm points to get it then sit in Luna all day...
Now were in that is pvp concerned items for Fel?
Make over land Fel toggleble for PvP,,but soon as you get in a dungeon thats it..its all out war..
Same for over land spawn champ areas..
But Kelmo is rite...Fel dosent need anything else that Tram dosent have..accept a fix in were you seemed concerned..PVP and Factions..
kelmo
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Seriously?
R
Resource Gathererer
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What?
"Trammie" what else are they called ?
There's no shame in being a Trammie, If you don't like Fel, who cares. but give people who play in fel something to do exclusively to fel, might interest people in pvp (if not) will be something we have to offer to the "Trammies" (non-pvpers/Characters).
All I'm asking for is something in fel that's worth doing (even if it's not pvp) the option for Non-Consensual Pvp to take place around such things is what's important.
kelmo
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Yes. I was trying to not get there...
See? It is not about shards or facets...
Insults will always get a lock.
My opinion is.. yes, fel needs some love.
And another opinion about forum threads in general: when a mod comes to your thread and he/she clearly is against your idea, then the worst you can do is reply to him because the thread will eventually get locked.
I am not talking about anyone in particular. Just a thought.
And another opinion about forum threads in general: when a mod comes to your thread and he/she clearly is against your idea, then the worst you can do is reply to him because the thread will eventually get locked.
I am not talking about anyone in particular. Just a thought.
Very true...it's a shame you can't post your opinion without some mod trying to bully you around.
The bullying here wasn't done by Kelmo, and this thread should have been locked long before now.
There's no "Bullying", just people disagreeing with each other, seems some people just don't know the difference Or they are totally against the suggestions in such threads thus being one of those people who claim (It's MY WAY and THAT's It). . .
Obviously the game is suffering, It could be the times... Or it could be because they are listening to the wrong people on the wrong aspects and change things for the worse because it sounds fine?
(I personally think it's both) but who knows...
Obviously the game is suffering, It could be the times... Or it could be because they are listening to the wrong people on the wrong aspects and change things for the worse because it sounds fine?
(I personally think it's both) but who knows...
Well, I've been listening to people complain about how the game is suffering since I started playing in 1998. I guess that isn't going to change.
Trammel's actually just shy of a dozen years old, btw, per the Wikipedia's release date for UO:R....And yes this is an important number.
How long Trammel's been around is a reality that many posters, though I suspect few players, like to ignore, because it lets them argue that Trammel was the end of the game. Every year longer that the game survives with that is a year that they can't claim Trammel ended the game. So the less there are, the better.
And every year that Felucca thins out more and more despite continual incentives being added.
So the less there are, the better.
Unfortunately for them, reality is at odds with that argument. And unfortunately for me, reality usually takes more words to express, and hence has a smaller audience than the fantasy does.
-Galen's player
How long Trammel's been around is a reality that many posters, though I suspect few players, like to ignore, because it lets them argue that Trammel was the end of the game. Every year longer that the game survives with that is a year that they can't claim Trammel ended the game. So the less there are, the better.
And every year that Felucca thins out more and more despite continual incentives being added.
So the less there are, the better.
Unfortunately for them, reality is at odds with that argument. And unfortunately for me, reality usually takes more words to express, and hence has a smaller audience than the fantasy does.
-Galen's player
I especially like the part where you include all of these incentives!
Annnd this is where you lost everyone that follows this thread.and threads like it.
What incentives were added, besides power scrolls exactly?
Dungeon Khaldn and all associated content. At the time introduced? Unique content, quite a big deal. Largely failed in terms of its intended goal.
Power Scrolls and associated champ spawn content, succeeded in its intended goal to a minor degree, but it kinda wore off after nearly 60 Publishes (and the removal of all meaningful disincentives for being red) and is now a source of complaints.
Double resources. Largely failed.
Faction Artifacts which are, in case you've forgotten, far above its non-Faction equivalent and available only in Felucca. I guess this succeeded in terms of giving Fellies equipment far above what was available exclusively in Trammel, though Imbuing balanced this out somewhat, and it sure as Hell failed in terms of increasing overall player interest in Factions and in Felucca. All that happened was that Fellies took the artifacts and never looked back at Factions again, instead using the Artifacts in Yew Gate and Champ Spawn fighting. No new people brought in as far as I can tell.
Several Champ Spawn Artifacts are available only in Felucca, through the Abyssal Infernal or Primeval Lich champ spawns, or through the Harrower. (And yes despite the rare use of these at EM events, these do count as Felucca content.) These largely failed and in fact have been, bizarrely, the source of Fellie complaints. (I'll never forget, after years of complaints about how all Champ Spawns are just choke point fighting, the complaints about the Abyss Champ Spawns as NOT having choke points.)
There is way more content than people realize, of all sort, available exclusively in the Primeval Lich champ spawn, which shows thought and imagination and is largely ignored.
I have listed all these before in numerous similar thread.
They are either ignored or are scoffed at as not being "real" incentives.
If "real incentive" is defined as 'something I happen to like,' discussion over, as that's just a personal preference.
If "real incentive" is defined as "something that works" in terms of luring more victims to Fel, then discussion over, because it misses the point. People do not want to PvP and be subject to the things Fellies constantly accuse each other of in Global Chat.
*shrugs*
As in all such discussions, reality is a secondary consideration. As such I'm really at a disadvantage, as I try my best to deal exclusively in reality.
The UO team needs to learn that loudness does not equal popular playstyle.
-Galen's player
I guess we need to specify Incentives that aren't as old as trammel...
The things in this list you've added are hardly incentives...
Primevil Lich & Abyssal Infernal : Whats this? Another way to make it "Easier" to get the ONLY THING Exclusive to FEL? (Powerscrolls) No Way...
maybe this would be a legitimate argument if the Tram entrance wasn't 10 seconds from the spawn alter... and all but one replica you can obtain elsewhere (in tram)...
Double resources : Hardly an incentive, considering you could gather the same resources in tram, just at a slower rate (half)no big deal. what about fel and Imbuing ingredients ? most pvpers and *tram-elites* would consider Imbuing Ingredients overall the only real important ones, aside from the very few raw materials you need to make suits/weapons...
Ugh, I could sit here and pick apart everything you said, but I know it wouldn't make a difference. This post is exactly why us "fellies" can't stand you "trammies".
"Incentives I do not like" does not mean "no incentives."
Nor, btw, does your ignorance of what's available mean that it is not available. The Primeval Lich spawn and Abyssal Infenral spawn both have things (artifacts, unique items that spawn on the ground, unique and thought out puzzles and sub-quests) that are exclusive to Fel and don't spawn in Trammel and are not power scrolls.
The statement about things as old as Trammel is quite bizarre as everything I listed is younger than Trammel.
Simple logic there. No reason to provide incentives to go to Felucca until after most players already left it for Trammel.
*shrugs*
-Galen's player
Ya, but maybe if everyone started listening we would get somewhere. I'd have a better chance trying to catch big foot in a mouse trap than get someone to change their mind on an internet forum.
Do you even play UO ?
This is the exact reason there NEEDS to be FEL Incentives....
If you compare Trammel (all facets with TRAM RULESET) to Felucca (non-consensual pvp areas) there is no comparison based on content. the only things we (fellies?) have are champ spawns WITH powerscrolls, khaldun. and um... the two spawns mentioned in the posts above. Edit: which one of these are near obsolete? ... All of them!? !! DING DING DING !!
and you say faction artifacts only benefit those who pvp? Guess what... Pvpers can pass points to another faction character (in the same faction) allowing them to use the artifacts too without the need for pvp...
Sorry but I don't count faction arties being a good enough incentive, maybe because there is a penalty for those who play in it? its called Stat loss.
Maybe they should have started re-vamping the Fel-exlusive (khaldun) first, instead of the Anti-Virtue dungeons that exist in both tram & fel?...
C
Carharrt
Guest
You gain +1 in internet intelligence.
It isn't what Fel lacks that is responsible for its low population. The problem is something that Fel has that the majority of players don't care for... non-consensual pvp. There's no getting around that, incentives or no incentives.
You don't HAVE to go to fel. If you go to fel, you are giving consent to PvP. There's no such thing as non-consensual PvP in UO.
So your telling me that Powerscrolls didn't work for atleast 4 years?
The problem is the Incentives aren't good enough... the point of this thread, is to Add More Incentives....
PvP is non-consenual in Fel, which is part of UO. Trammel is also part of UO. Therefore, there is such a thing as non-consenual PvP in UO. And this is precisely why Fel isn't going to attract a large number of players, regardless of what "incentives" the Devs may choose to provide.
Well untill the Devs add "real worthy incentives" to fel we'll never know...
The point of this thread remains unchanged.
How many players actually chose to call Fel "home" because of power scrolls? Even players I know who still have houses in Fel usually prefer to play in Trammel. I don't know what incentives you think can be added that would actually bring more population to Fel without shortchanging everyone else.
Ok, in no way in any posts here has stated anything about "calling fel home" just because you have a house in Fel doesn't mean a thing.
Of course everyone is going to choose tram over fel because there is little to nothing you get from fel, that you cannot get in tram, powerscrolls and a few replicas are all you can get in fel that you cannot get in Tram-rule set facets.
Sometimes it makes me wonder if people even read the thread title, because it seems some replies have absolutely nothing to do with what this thread is about.
Yes, I've been reading the posts in this thread. I happen to disagree with the suggestion that greater incentives are going to make much of a difference to players who simply don't want to go to Fel. Anything added to Fel that cannot be acquired in Trammel will, like power scrolls, end up on Trammel vendors anyway (Fel folks do sell in Tram). With as much gold as there is in the game, I expect most players will patronize those Trammel vendors, regardless of overpricing, just as they do now.
I think Kelmo is right. Changes need to be made to PvP... not to Fel.
ok so they listen and place a big new shiny dungeon in fel. complete with new content, new puzzles, new arties, new stealables, etc. Publish hits and what happens? the entrances are camped by reds waiting for non pvpers to come looking to play the game. Fel fan boys rejoice with all the easy kills at first, then start crying because everyone that comes near the new dungeon either runs away from the fight or the red gets killed by a "trammie" and then said red runs to uhall to post complaints about either the trammies suit or a spell he uses. After one month the new dungeon is only attended by the same old pvp guilds who farm it and then try to sell them for exorbitant amounts. The devs then listen to the Majority and place a clone of this dungeon in tram.
that is what i believe was meant by saying that PVP needs attention, not just fel. ya add something to fel to draw more people in and it fails like all the others. You address pvp and make a honest attempt to balance it out in accordance to UOs population and you might save fel.
Now i will leave the thread before the anger management dropouts come in raging like always, or they just skim the post and reply "you dont agree with me so you cant post here"
that is what i believe was meant by saying that PVP needs attention, not just fel. ya add something to fel to draw more people in and it fails like all the others. You address pvp and make a honest attempt to balance it out in accordance to UOs population and you might save fel.
Now i will leave the thread before the anger management dropouts come in raging like always, or they just skim the post and reply "you dont agree with me so you cant post here"
Point made, fel has nothing for "Fellies" to sell, that they can get, that everyone in "tram" already has. Pvpers want things in tram (arties)
pvmers want things from fel (powerscrolls) Arties can be lost. powerscrolls used cannot thus demand has been reducing oooh so much for the last 8-10 years?
Well sure Kelmo is right, in saying PvP needs changes. I do not agree that Fel
needs no new incentives.
What I do not agree on is everything in tram being handed out with little to no Risk vs Reward. sure its nice to have Somethings like this... but not Everything, especially nothing that is geared more towards pvp than pvm.
(slither as an example) pretty much a pvp only artifact.
I use the Slither as an exampled "pvp" item because DCI/HPI on an item slot that's better replaced with (sdi mana phasing orb" or "slayer/+DI talisman) for pvm, than pvp
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ the Same mistakes WoW is making ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
When everything "good" is easily obtained, and only becomes easier. it gets boring, people quit... (WoW nerfs everything that was once a challenge, and hands out the same rewards to people who didn't even try...) If you've played WoW you will know what I mean. (Imbuing would be a fine comparison to this and had a big impact I'm sure)
Though imbuing improved some aspects (easy access to the best equipment) of the game it still adds challenges on future plans (to the devs). I could only imagine how hard it is, to revamp dungeons and add loot that is a good enough (better than something you can craft & imbue) reward to get people to pvm again.
What I don't get is why Trammel players (in general) feel entitled to every single bit of content that's every introduced into the game.
I retired the rest of my characters and played a thief exclusively, right around the time Mondain's Legacy was introduced. I've never seen a peerless and I think I've only set foot in 2 peerless dungeons. I've never been down into the Underworld and haven't seen most of the new lands in Ter Mur. I've never fought the High Seas champion. I'm not complaining. That content just wasn't accessible to the character I chose to play.
I'm not a red pvper, but I know that some of them have no interest in logging in on a blue and hunting monsters. They log in to pvp. They know that some content just isn't accessible to the character they choose to play. In a way, you can say that the vast majority of content found in UO is exclusive the Trammel play style. This is fine.
But then you take Trammel players (again, in general). You make power scrolls exclusive to Felucca and then all of a sudden players are upset that they "can't play the game they paid for." My point is, if a new dungeon is introduced in Fel. You're right that a few pvp guilds will be camping it and fighting over it, but who says other people have to go there to get slaughtered if they don't want to? That content just may not be accessible to the characters that those people choose to play. And what's wrong with that?
If EA made in one new dungeon in Felucca with unique loot and then made ten new dungeons in Trammel with unique loot; I'd be happy that I got a new dungeon to play in... and then some people would be angry that they weren't given 11 new dungeons instead of 10.
Not to say none of this is true, but you know, not everyone in fel is on the same side..
you think all the factions/reds are going to team up together, to gank all the non-pvpers? I'll wager, there will be a big pvp fest (both pvpers and non-pvpers) because they want to see the new content/rewards and so forth.
Now this is just completely unnecessary trying to provoke an arguement to get a thread locked? what was the point in even saying this?
Maybe you just don't want something you can't get ?
If he's asking for more people to kill, then I guess you're right.
But if he's just asking for another location to fight over, in addition to Yew Gate and champion spawns, then I say it's over due.
That's all I'm saying.
CovenantX, I can respect your opinions, although they may differ from mine. As for risk vs. reward, I think perceptions may vary widely. What constitutes risk to one player may not be viewed the same way by another. It's rather subjective, really.
That said, I imagine the best course to follow is to agree to disagree. I believe the Devs will ultimately do what they think is best for the game, knowing full well that no matter what they decide to do (or not to do), it isn't going to please everyone.
It's getting close to 2:30 a.m. here, so I'm going to call it a night. Take care.
That said, I imagine the best course to follow is to agree to disagree. I believe the Devs will ultimately do what they think is best for the game, knowing full well that no matter what they decide to do (or not to do), it isn't going to please everyone.
It's getting close to 2:30 a.m. here, so I'm going to call it a night. Take care.