Dexterity.

[lupushor]

I have always had this question in my head and never manage to find a proper answer for it:

- Why do only fighting skills depend on Dexterity?

Disclaimer: I don't know if I would like myself the changes discussed further for Dexterity. I have no proposal for an actual change. I'm just debating the LOGIC of the system.

Ultima was always based on sound logic. Actions, interactions, skills and even magic have a logical path and outcome.
But I fail to see the logic why Dex does not influences trades like Bard or Thief.

I know that finding room for Dex on a Mage Bard may seem impossible, but if the advantages of a very high dexterity would rock destard like one of the best clubs in Ibiza then maybe one would find a way.

Also, I think a thief leaving me in my underpants in Felucca should be a slick type of character, not an Einstein-Goliath with 100str/10dex/125int.

What would be the change? - Higher Dex leading to better outcome for Bards and Thieves. (haven't thought about other proffesions yet - e.g. Crafters)

How would this affect us? - It would hit hard, no doubt. Some templates may not work anymore, the new system seeming to push toward specialized templates. I won't even start discussing the new suits needed.

Are there any advantages to this besides "logic" ? - Well....this is where you guys come in ... How would you imagine yourselves playing in this new system?

 

[Llewen]

Doesn't dexterity affect skills like stealing, hiding and stealth? If it doesn't, it should...

 

[lupushor]

Well, uoguide pretty much says that Dex is only counted for SSI, parry and healing.
I have a 10dex stealther that can circle the world unnoticed, and a 10dex bard that does a perfect job.
I mean, Strength affects hitpoints and how much you carry and others, Intelligence has mana and affects lore and spell power, but Dex, part of this big trinity of stats, only influences SSI? Seems petty
I know Dex also means stamina and some of you have connections that actually burn stamina while riding, but....would you buy concert tickets to hear a 10dex singer play??

 

[Llewen]

You are right, I agree completely.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

You know it never occurred to me that Dexterity did not impact stealth, stealing, and the like....But damn, now that I think about it I don't recall reading anything that says it does, and I know plenty of stealth mages with very low dex.

For that matter, does dexterity impact, say, Ninjitsu?

The fact that warriors have to depend on all 3 stats, whereas mages for the most part only have to worry about 2 (I didn't say for all purposes, I said for the most part), has been cited at some points (not often though) as a balance issue.

-Galen's player

 

[Sevin0oo0]

i think we should have an inherent level of stamina, 10, many toons have that Only for the stamina, nothing else, almost like a game requirement. I would venture to say mobs have that, or their stamina cannot be depleted by HP loss. I've seen many actually move faster at near death

 

[PwnySlaystation]

You know it never occurred to me that Dexterity did not impact stealth, stealing, and the like....But damn, now that I think about it I don't recall reading anything that says it does, and I know plenty of stealth mages with very low dex.

For that matter, does dexterity impact, say, Ninjitsu?

The fact that warriors have to depend on all 3 stats, whereas mages for the most part only have to worry about 2 (I didn't say for all purposes, I said for the most part), has been cited at some points (not often though) as a balance issue.

-Galen's player

It's a warrior choice to make intelligence such an important part of a template. You don't have to do 10 specials in a row. Also, don't macing weps still kill stamina? Crushing blow etc? 10 stamina mages won't be running very far if that was the case.

 

[Willard]

Guess I will raise strength and lower dex on my stealth thief so he can cary more loot

 

[Packrat22]

Just an observation, if changes to stats occur I feel that stats logically would have to be added to soul stones.

 

[old gypsy]

Just an observation, if changes to stats occur I feel that stats logically would have to be added to soul stones.

Oh, I like that idea! Soul stones for skills, and stat stones for stats!

 

[lupushor]

It's a warrior choice to make intelligence such an important part of a template. You don't have to do 10 specials in a row. Also, don't macing weps still kill stamina? Crushing blow etc? 10 stamina mages won't be running very far if that was the case.

Well, yes, but what's important is that they DO have those choices available. To have some higher int for specials/chiv or not. And honestly, how many 10int dexxers do you know?
(to answer a previous post, one cannot lower a stat below 10, so 10 dex/stamina is inherent).

This whole idea started when I was planning my templates. It was like "This guy is a warrior....i need 125 base dex. This other guy is not a warrior....how should I split the stats? 125str/120int or 120str/125int? I mean 10dex is pretty much standard for non-weapon templates. From my 25 toons, 18 of them have 10dex. And none of them have 10int or 10str. This just doesn't seem fair towards dex.

To get back to the point, what if mages would be given this choice too? To have higher dex for some "specials" of their own. For example, what if with 80 dex a nox mage would inflict DP 100% of times?

 

[Hi my name is]

I have always had this question in my head and never manage to find a proper answer for it:

- Why do only fighting skills depend on Dexterity?

Disclaimer: I don't know if I would like myself the changes discussed further for Dexterity. I have no proposal for an actual change. I'm just debating the LOGIC of the system.

Ultima was always based on sound logic. Actions, interactions, skills and even magic have a logical path and outcome.
But I fail to see the logic why Dex does not influences trades like Bard or Thief.

I know that finding room for Dex on a Mage Bard may seem impossible, but if the advantages of a very high dexterity would rock destard like one of the best clubs in Ibiza then maybe one would find a way.

Also, I think a thief leaving me in my underpants in Felucca should be a slick type of character, not an Einstein-Goliath with 100str/10dex/125int.

What would be the change? - Higher Dex leading to better outcome for Bards and Thieves. (haven't thought about other proffesions yet - e.g. Crafters)

How would this affect us? - It would hit hard, no doubt. Some templates may not work anymore, the new system seeming to push toward specialized templates. I won't even start discussing the new suits needed.

Are there any advantages to this besides "logic" ? - Well....this is where you guys come in ... How would you imagine yourselves playing in this new system?

Mages rely 100% on their mana pool to compete. Dexxers can use both regular swings as well as their mana pool to compete. Hence why dex should be required for DEXxers and not mages. It's hard enough to play a mage with how overpowered dexxers are these days, this would just be the nail in the coffin for mages. If having higher dex gave you an advantage with no downside, then by all means I'm for it.

 

[lupushor]

Mages rely 100% on their mana pool to compete. Dexxers can use both regular swings as well as their mana pool to compete. Hence why dex should be required for DEXxers and not mages. It's hard enough to play a mage with how overpowered dexxers are these days, this would just be the nail in the coffin for mages. If having higher dex gave you an advantage with no downside, then by all means I'm for it.

Ok, I was afraid this will turn into a PvP debate, and it was never my intention.

Please, let's get back to Thieves and Bards, forget Mages and Dexxers, they work fine enough.

Scenario : A Bard will have a high chance to provoke two greater dragons if his/hers template+suit will provide the following : 120 music, 120 provo AND 150dex. If he had only 40 dex than he would have NO chance of provoking those 2 beasts.
- Would this make better sense than the current system?
- Would you play such a character with high str, max Dex, low int for the benefits?

 

[Carharrt]

Great idea on the Stat Stones! We so need that on Siege. I would love to have the dexxer option when my only toon is set up for a mage.

 

[Mairut]

Ok, I was afraid this will turn into a PvP debate, and it was never my intention.

Please, let's get back to Thieves and Bards, forget Mages and Dexxers, they work fine enough.

Scenario : A Bard will have a high chance to provoke two greater dragons if his/hers template+suit will provide the following : 120 music, 120 provo AND 150dex. If he had only 40 dex than he would have NO chance of provoking those 2 beasts.
- Would this make better sense than the current system?
- Would you play such a character with high str, max Dex, low int for the benefits?

It never made sense to me that thieves and bards wouldn't have a need for dexterity, however... a definition of dexterity is: skill or adroitness in using the hands or body.

Secondly, I noticed a majority of your posts are in UORares, and I'm questioning why you would want to make a post that would encourage the devs to make another change that would nerf many thief templates, and whether your inclusion of bards is simply a distraction from this. Were you a rares fest thief target or something?

 

[Uvtha]

Ok, I was afraid this will turn into a PvP debate, and it was never my intention.

Please, let's get back to Thieves and Bards, forget Mages and Dexxers, they work fine enough.

Scenario : A Bard will have a high chance to provoke two greater dragons if his/hers template+suit will provide the following : 120 music, 120 provo AND 150dex. If he had only 40 dex than he would have NO chance of provoking those 2 beasts.
- Would this make better sense than the current system?
- Would you play such a character with high str, max Dex, low int for the benefits?

I think that's a bit severe. I think something more like some kind of baseline dex say 50 that if you are under you start to get penalized, and you are over you get bonuses.

Requiring people to slap 150 dex into thier builds to do stuff they used to be able to do with no dex is probably not a good idea.

I think the effect should be more subtle.

 

[Mairut]

I think that's a bit severe. I think something more like some kind of baseline dex say 50 that if you are under you start to get penalized, and you are over you get bonuses.

Requiring people to slap 150 dex into thier builds to do stuff they used to be able to do with no dex is probably not a good idea.

I think the effect should be more subtle.

This makes a lot of sense. Wouldn't mind doing this on my mage/thief; trading str for some dex.

 

[Uvtha]

This makes a lot of sense. Wouldn't mind doing this on my mage/thief; trading str for some dex.

Maybe for every 10 dex over 50 you get a 1% chance to not be revealed when stealing, or a 1% chance to bard a normally unbardable monster. 150 dex = remove trap skill does not reveal.

150 dex is a big commitment on a suit for a non melee character, so I think there could be a reasonably large reward.

 

[virtualhabitat]

You know it never occurred to me that Dexterity did not impact stealth, stealing, and the like....But damn, now that I think about it I don't recall reading anything that says it does, and I know plenty of stealth mages with very low dex.

-Galen's player

Back in May of 2011 I asked this question because the Statics guide does, indeed mention that

"When stealthing near other people or monsters there is a chance you are detected. A check is made by comparing the stealthers Stealth skill and Dexterity versus the other persons or monsters Detect Hidden skill.
LINK (It's the second to last item in the list)

It does not have any effect on stealth, of course, but there it is in black and white.

I wish dex would factor into this silly passive reveal.

 

[Hi my name is]

Ok, I was afraid this will turn into a PvP debate, and it was never my intention.

Well considering PvM in UO is so far behind other games I don't know why you would focus on such a small aspect when the entire system as a whole needs revamped.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

It's a warrior choice to make intelligence such an important part of a template. You don't have to do 10 specials in a row. Also, don't macing weps still kill stamina? Crushing blow etc? 10 stamina mages won't be running very far if that was the case.

Nah, it's not really a choice, save in the sense of "I choose to have a shot in Hell at being effective, or I choose to always suck all the time."

Specials (whether you do 1 in a row or 10 in a row), Bushido, Chivlary, Ninjitsu, etc., all require Mana.

I do not have the impression mace weapons kill stamina save from special moves, and all kinds of weapons have crushing blow (if that's even the stamina-killing one which I honestly don't know).

-Galen's player

 

[lupushor]

It never made sense to me that thieves and bards wouldn't have a need for dexterity, however... a definition of dexterity is: skill or adroitness in using the hands or body.

Secondly, I noticed a majority of your posts are in UORares, and I'm questioning why you would want to make a post that would encourage the devs to make another change that would nerf many thief templates, and whether your inclusion of bards is simply a distraction from this. Were you a rares fest thief target or something?

No No hidden agenda whatsoever. Don't nerf thieves, make them better.
I'm just debating over a principle: Should or should not Dex affect other skills that it currently does not influence?
Bard, Thieves, Veterinary, Poisoning, Tinkering, heck even Tailoring? Not all of them, of course

Maybe for every 10 dex over 50 you get a 1% chance to not be revealed when stealing, or a 1% chance to bard a normally unbardable monster. 150 dex = remove trap skill does not reveal.

150 dex is a big commitment on a suit for a non melee character, so I think there could be a reasonably large reward.

Yup, my point exactly. Large reward for stretching a template to it's limits.