um Why can people make better UI than Devs?

[NBG]

Just saw a paper doll that looks really awesome in another thread and when I look at the EC default, all I can do is

If someone can do quality work like below on their spare time..... Where are you getting your Developers/Graphic designers? I mean when you compare the work quality, you are just putting $$$ down the crapper.

Why not hire people part time.... that has shown actually ability on these boards and save some money!

Please look at this paper doll someone is using....

 

[MalagAste]

Um...

Not to "burst your bubble." or anything but that's what the EM's look like in the EC.

Sorry.

That's the normal everyday EM skin.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

BioWare Mythic just needs to pay Pinco.

 

[NBG]

Um...

Not to "burst your bubble." or anything but that's what the EM's look like in the EC.

Sorry.

That's the normal everyday EM skin.

Um..... I am talking about the UI not how the character looks.
And if they can make EM look like that, why does regular character look like crap....

 

[Tazar]

Sure, the Dev's could do all of this stuff - but they have other priorities like fixing bugs, planning scenarios, adding content. So instead, when they created the enhanced client, they put these powers in the players hands to customize it.

That said - I do have to admit that the default EC is not attractive. Those bright yellow/gold icons, etc stand out so much that they detract from the game world. I sort of think that the Dev's intentionally did it that way to encourage players to jump in with mods, user interfaces, etc.

 

[pgib]

I like the default EC style: clean and simple. I also think the devs have made a good job in making it scriptable. The only drawback is that it has no documentation so tweaking it is a trial and error process.

 

[RuSini Neb]

Sure, the Dev's could do all of this stuff - but they have other priorities like fixing bugs, planning scenarios, adding content. So instead, when they created the enhanced client, they put these powers in the players hands to customize it.

That said - I do have to admit that the default EC is not attractive. Those bright yellow/gold icons, etc stand out so much that they detract from the game world. I sort of think that the Dev's intentionally did it that way to encourage players to jump in with mods, user interfaces, etc.

Um people that Design code are normally not Graphics Design. Its two different schools of disciplines. So, unless UO is really like a two man shop now, there are no excuses for the devs to turn out art work.

Also didn't our new producer say something about investing into the EC to get it out of beta ? I know that doesn't say exactly (update character paper doll art work in EC ) but yeah, generally moving from beta to Gold has graphical improvements involved.

 

[Tazar]

Um people that Design code are normally not Graphics Design. Its two different schools of disciplines. So, unless UO is really like a two man shop now, there are no excuses for the devs to turn out art work.

Also didn't our new producer say something about investing into the EC to get it out of beta ? I know that doesn't say exactly (update character paper doll art work in EC ) but yeah, generally moving from beta to Gold has graphical improvements involved.

It is still a question of the allocation of resources between games, etc. Considering that there have been statements before about "Outsourcing" some of the graphics, then yes - it is a direct question of "do we pay XYZ company to further develop the layout? or do we sink those funds into other areas".

Also, if you will check above, the original poster was talking about the user interface - not the paperdoll - so that was how I answered.

Yes, the new producer (and others) have said that graphics will be enhanced. We have see parts of it with the last two publishes - but that is not the same question as the player vs. Dev designed user interface one from above.

 

[G.v.P]

BioWare Mythic just needs to pay Pinco.

Only if they hire Saphireena first. ;P

 

[Sevin0oo0]

They put it in place, and threw in a sample (default) script. Kinda left it to the user for customization, I think w/ a few instructions as well.
I say just be glad that it's changeable , that was pretty magnanimous in my book.

 

[Daga Taga]

BioWare Mythic just needs to pay Pinco.

I agree, just pay Pinco!!!!!!

 

[LadyNico]

BioWare Mythic just needs to pay Pinco.

Only if they hire Saphireena first. ;P

This.

 

[Willard]

BioWare Mythic just needs to pay Pinco.

^^^^THIS^^^^

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

BioWare Mythic just needs to pay Pinco.

Only if they hire Saphireena first. ;P

From what I have heard, that ship has already sailed and sunk. It was sad news.

 

[Storm]

Just a FYI in your Userinterface folder there are instructions on making your own UI !

 

[Zosimus]

Pinco for president..... errrrr well how about prodcuer





* Hot ice.*

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

The EM Paperdoll uses a different model than the normal character paperdoll, it is not designed by modders and will appear that way regardless of the UI used.

Modders can create better UIs simply because they aren't bound by the restraints of EA/Mythic/Bioware suits in terms of manpower and focus. When I work on a UI texture pack, I do it on my own time under my own terms (when I want to do it, not because "it's my job"). Modders are also not as nearly constrained by internal QA systems aside form what we use ourselves (generally logging in with the new idea in place code/texture-wise and hoping it works). Since we don't have a formal Publish schedule/process, we can push out as big or as small of a change as we desire.

Different people have come and gone from the modder scene and each one has brought new ideas to the table and has helped the custom UO Enhanced UI grow.

 

[Elric_Soban]

Only if they hire Saphireena first. ;P

She's talented but we don't need a high res 2d client. Put her to work on EC and you've got my vote.

 

[Cetric]

BioWare Mythic just needs to pay Pinco.

honestly.. seeing pincos work... if he could fix a few things i believe he could sway a few people to switch from cc to ec

 

[Cetric]

She's talented but we don't need a high res 2d client. Put her to work on EC and you've got my vote.

oh god... i forgot about that super high res 2d art... nevermind.. hire that chick. Her work was awesome looking

 

[MalagAste]

Her work was awesome...

I'm thinking between the two they could totally revolutionize UO...

 

[G.v.P]

From what I have heard, that ship has already sailed and sunk. It was sad news.

True. I'm a 2D fan boy, I'm still sinking on that ship ;P (unless they make an actual 3D UO).

She's talented but we don't need a high res 2d client. Put her to work on EC and you've got my vote.

I needs high res 2d!! or real 3d .

 

[Merion]

Just in case you didn't know it - Saphireena also made some KR improvement demos. So yeah, I sa hire them both and unleash the on the EC.

 

[Llewen]

It seems to be one of the "facts" of the industry. The hobbyist developers produce better quality work than the actual professional developers. Hobbyist developers are working for love, not money, or they may be motivated by the dream of working in the industry some day, or developing their skills. Whatever the case may be, they are more highly motivated to produce quality work because it isn't just a job to them.

Hobbyist developers are also not shackled by quality assurance systems, deadlines, lawyers, or industry watchdogs, and the politics associated with that. There are lots of reasons why hobbyist developers tend to produce better quality, and more interesting work.
That's why most developers these days go out of their way to make their products mod friendly, because good quality, popular mods add value to their products and greatly increase their longevity in terms of sales.

In some ways, like it or not, the developers of third party cheats for the original classic UO client were game modding pioneers. UO Assist itself actually started off as a cheat, and when so many mods were created for Ultima Online, the original developers were caught flat footed as to how to deal with the "improvements" these mods offered. The one thing that has become clear however, throughout the history of computer gaming, is that a healthy modding community for a game, is a good indication of the health of the game itself, and it's continued potential as a revenue stream.

 

[Spiritless]

The whole premise of the thread is ridiculous. The WoW client looks pretty crappy by default too, that's why there's literally thousands of addons available for it to improve it. Should Blizzard hire all of those bedroom programmers too, since they obviously can do such a better job? To be honest the fact there's only one guy known for creating UI mods says a lot about the state of the game and the uptake/development of the EC client generally; if either of those were healthy there would probably be many more.

One thing I would say about Blizzard is they tend to include the functionality of highly popular addons into their client eventually. Perhaps EA should look at emulating this.

 

[Llewen]

No, the whole premise of the thread isn't "ridiculous". It's a valid question and it has produced an interesting discussion. The fact that there are such high quality mods available for the EC also says good things about the potential and future for that client as well.

Pinco didn't create his mod in a vacuum. He took the best of the many other mods that had already been created for the EC and combined them, then took the entire package to a new level. There is no question that those of us who love the EC are very lucky that he decided to gift us all with his work.

 

[RuSini Neb]

The whole premise of the thread is ridiculous. The WoW client looks pretty crappy by default too, that's why there's literally thousands of addons available for it to improve it. Should Blizzard hire all of those bedroom programmers too, since they obviously can do such a better job? To be honest the fact there's only one guy known for creating UI mods says a lot about the state of the game and the uptake/development of the EC client generally; if either of those were healthy there would probably be many more.

One thing I would say about Blizzard is they tend to include the functionality of highly popular addons into their client eventually. Perhaps EA should look at emulating this.

Um ?? Last time I checked, Blizzard integrates mods in to its client. Quest Helper for example, that's a more recent one.

 

[Spiritless]

No, the whole premise of the thread isn't "ridiculous". It's a valid question and it has produced an interesting discussion. The fact that there are such high quality mods available for the EC also says good things about the potential and future for that client as well.

Pinco didn't create his mod in a vacuum. He took the best of the many other mods that had already been created for the EC and combined them, then took the entire package to a new level. There is no question that those of us who love the EC are very lucky that he decided to gift us all with his work.

There aren't "such high quality mods available for the EC." There's basically one. A UI pack. That's it. What happened to the UO Modders Exchange? Exactly. The devs haven't even provided an API comprehensive enough to create any serious addons. If these things are meant to highlight "the potential and future" for the client then it doesn't look immensely bright, keeping in mind the fact it was released over 2 years ago and the modding community has essentially died bar a handful of people. The client had potential in terms of modding, but EA's development, or lack thereof, largely caused their development to stagnate. Even people who are part of that community will concede this.

Um ?? Last time I checked, Blizzard integrates mods in to its client. Quest Helper for example, that's a more recent one.

That's exactly what I said they do. Brain.

 

[Pinco]

There aren't "such high quality mods available for the EC." There's basically one. A UI pack. That's it. What happened to the UO Modders Exchange? Exactly. The devs haven't even provided an API comprehensive enough to create any serious addons. If these things are meant to highlight "the potential and future" for the client then it doesn't look immensely bright, keeping in mind the fact it was released over 2 years ago and the modding community has essentially died bar a handful of people. The client had potential in terms of modding, but EA's development, or lack thereof, largely caused their development to stagnate. Even people who are part of that community will concede this.

That's exactly what I said they do. Brain.

well, actually the client could have potential, but there are no API because the entire mods are made by workaround...
WoW has events for almost every game interaction, UO has few events and the rest is buried inside the client and made inaccessible.
Unfortunately the buried part has to stay as it is because in a game like UO you can really do bad things with it

The only thing I would like to have (and Cal said they thought about) is a readable value for the current zoom, and it's the only thing I really miss...

Well to be honest I would like also the following events to lighten the UI:
- OnSpellCast(spellId)
- OnSpellCastFinish(spellID, success as bool)
- OnSkillUse(skillId)

but probably this is too much