[UO Herald] Terms of Service Reminder

[RaDian FlGith]

There's only one thing that botheres me about this...

If you receive a warning for any infraction, it is because you were reported by a fellow player for breaking the ToS. Warnings placed on an account will escalate to suspension if the account commits the same offense repeatedly.

Okay... so... are they not scanning for these things on their own? And... does that mean all someone has to do is accuse another player of using something?

Not disputing a policy in place isn't good... just... I don't quite get the wholeness of the policy.

 

[Sauteed Onion]

I would say "What's the big deal?" but I think the people that know they are doing something illegal vs. ToS know what the big deal is.

Anyhow, at least they are moving the right direction. Good moves in order at this point:

Enforcing ToS

Advertising (to replace those that are angry they can't get away with breaking ToS all day long)

My .02 (not that it matters)

 

[Xalan Dementia]

There's only one thing that botheres me about this...



Okay... so... are they not scanning for these things on their own? And... does that mean all someone has to do is accuse another player of using something?

Not disputing a policy in place isn't good... just... I don't quite get the wholeness of the policy.

Its poor wording, they are basically trying to put down any rumors of rogue Gms wandering the game dishing out warnings/bannings without being paged.

 

[Poo]

from what ive seen, the fellas that posted pics from their 'marks' from yesturday, none of them showed the FULL SCREEN in their pics.

you couldnt see what was running down on the toolbar, and the fact that they took the time to cut the pic and delete that portion of the pic screams volumes to me as to their being cute little innocent virgins in this big bad UO world.

and as for them marking people who get reported to them, lets use our heads here people, the GM is gonna come have a look when someone complains about you, he's then gonna look to see if your running anything, then to see if your attended.
if you fail any of those checks your gonna get a mark.

makes perfect sense to me.

i personally dont see what the big uproar is about.
if ya dont wanna get any marks, dont run scripts.

 

[WootSauce]

If you receive a warning for any infraction, it is because you were reported by a fellow player for breaking the ToS. Warnings placed on an account will escalate to suspension if the account commits the same offense repeatedly.

^^^^^^^^^

make this clear, please. I farm shame on three or more accounts at once. I do this on one machine with 3 monitors and no programs, even approved ones. I have been accused of scripting by other players on many occasions. Does the above mean that reports from anyone who i don't want to speak with who encounters me mean that I will get a warning? Is there some new ability for the GM's to identify 3rd party programs, or is the change just to take the word of the pager? I'd be glad to cancel a few of my accounts if I know that we are now taking the general populous and allowing them to be the judge and jury on who is scripting or using a 3rd party program.

 

[Tazar]

It is clear... it means that a player files a report and then a GM investigates. As long as you are not running cheat programs (and yes - they can tell) and as long as you can respond to the GM, you should not have a problem.

That said - I know that the programs that allow one player to control multiple clients (all in sync with the same actions at the same time) would be considered illegal and I would hazard a guess that they are actionable.

 

[Hunters' Moon]

from what ive seen, the fellas that posted pics from their 'marks' from yesturday, none of them showed the FULL SCREEN in their pics.

you couldnt see what was running down on the toolbar, and the fact that they took the time to cut the pic and delete that portion of the pic screams volumes to me as to their being cute little innocent virgins in this big bad UO world.

and as for them marking people who get reported to them, lets use our heads here people, the GM is gonna come have a look when someone complains about you, he's then gonna look to see if your running anything, then to see if your attended.
if you fail any of those checks your gonna get a mark.

makes perfect sense to me.

i personally dont see what the big uproar is about.
if ya dont wanna get any marks, dont run scripts.

The post quoted here is why I wish there was a 'like' button option in Stratics.

People just want to see how much they can get away with,instead of simply following the rules as is intended. And does what Cal Crowner said back in 2010 about Cartographer really hold water any more?

 

[WootSauce]

the GM is gonna come have a look when someone complains about you, he's then gonna look to see if your running anything, then to see if your attended.

i am ok with this, however they have never had the ability in the past, and as far as anyone knows dont have the ability now to " look to see if your running anything".

when i am making a suit - i may have my crafter logged in for HOURS, while i am working things out on an excel spreadsheet on another monitor. i will be crunching numbers and crafting max at the same time, using in game Classic client functions. i may go make a grilled cheese while i figure out how i want to proceed with the suit - all the while, i may be logged in to game, and not looking at the screen.

 

[kelmo]

i am ok with this, however they have never had the ability in the past, and as far as anyone knows dont have the ability now to " look to see if your running anything".

wanna bet yer account on that? I do not. *smiles*

 

[Hunters' Moon]

i am ok with this, however they have never had the ability in the past, and as far as anyone knows dont have the ability now to " look to see if your running anything".

when i am making a suit - i may have my crafter logged in for HOURS, while i am working things out on an excel spreadsheet on another monitor. i will be crunching numbers and crafting max at the same time, using in game Classic client functions. i may go make a grilled cheese while i figure out how i want to proceed with the suit - all the while, i may be logged in to game, and not looking at the screen.

Is your crafter making anything while you are afk? If so,TOS states that is against the rules.

 

[Poo]

actually, they do have the ability to see what your running.
they have for a while now, and they have made no secret about it.
they are just now actually USING this info that they have had at thier disposal.

and i hear ya about crafting, i do the exact.... and i mean EXACT thing when im making suit.
ill head off the the bathroom and contemplate it on the throne, ill wonder up stairs and make a sandwich, ill come back and tweak something, then head up and get a drink.

im a very wondering UO player.

but ya do so at the risk that some day, some GM may swing in to check on ya, and if you cant answer him, your getting a mark.

does it suck?
yup.
hell, ive gotten 3 day bans before for this very thing!

but how do they know what we are doing?
its said right in the TOS, you must be attended and able to answer a GM should he talk to ya.

but i tell ya, id much rather have the pain of logging out when im in a wondering mood then have the speedhacking pot chugging script runners we have to deal with now.

 

[Poo]

The post quoted here is why I wish there was a 'like' button option in Stratics.

People just want to see how much they can get away with,instead of simply following the rules as is intended. And does what Cal Crowner said back in 2010 about Cartographer really hold water any more?

someone likes me!

 

[Tazar]

People just want to see how much they can get away with,instead of simply following the rules as is intended.

*Presses "Like" Button*

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Case you missed the memo, we have new producer in EA for UO. And it is not Cal who posted that in May 2010.

just saying.... what he says means nothing to us as players anymore

Read the thread, yes, it was Cal. He was producer at the time, it was his decision to make...he posted it.

Simply because we now have Jeff doesn't mean that everything Cal said is trash.

 

[Poo]

send it to me in a PM

ill sit here and wait for it.
(and i promise i wont go make a sandwich either!)

 

[kelmo]

(and i promise i wont go make a sandwich either!)

I could go for one... and a beer too?

 

[Storm]

I could go for one... and a beer too?

Ditto

 

[puni666]

what about

ventrilo?

teamspeak?

UOSU, of which i downloaded originally 9 years from stratics

list is endless.

that list needs adjusted.

Everything on this site needs to be adjusted...

 

[Picus of Napa]

Did I miss a actual reply from a member of the real UO dev team reply in this thread or is it only moderators of these boards posting with information?

I would like to see some type of clear identification to these accusations of GM's and such being able to clearly identify which means they have to determine who is "cheating" and who is not. A slippery slope is directly in front of us.

 

[kelmo]

Don't cheat. *shrugs* If ya don't cheat you will most likely have no worries. If you do... Stratics is not the place to fight that battle.

 

[WootSauce]

No Devs, no team members, but plenty of Mods assuring us that whatever happens to you is because THEY KNOW.

love ya kelmo, but not one of my ten accounts received an email informing me of a ToS change where they can scan my PC and see what other services that I am running when i am logged in. Hell, come to think of it, i had to spend 3 hours of my life trying to figure out how to give EA my money after the billing changes...

 

[kelmo]

No you likely did not get an email... The TOS has changed though. We discussed that some time ago here on Uhall.

 

[WootSauce]

Unless i missed it somewhere, when i agreed to pay EA a monthly fee, i dont recall that they required me to monitor UHALL for updates on my ToS with them.

 

[Tanivar]

It is clear... it means that a player files a report and then a GM investigates. As long as you are not running cheat programs (and yes - they can tell) and as long as you can respond to the GM, you should not have a problem.

The OP makes no mention of this. What you care to assume is up to you.

I take the words in the OP as they are written, no assumed additions to it.

It says "it is because you were reported by a fellow player for breaking the ToS." There is absolutely no mention of anything saying a GM checks anything. It clearly states if a player. makes an accusation against you, you will receive an infraction.

Nothing in the OP says otherwise.

 

[Kralock]

well its the msg displayed in my new splash to open the game, so stratics or not ppl should know whats going on.

 

[Xalan Dementia]

people are misunderstanding this.


If you receive a warning for any infraction, it is because you were reported by a fellow player for breaking the ToS.
Warnings placed on an account will escalate to suspension if the account commits the same offense repeatedly.


basically stating, if you are approached by a GM and given a warning/infraction, it is because someone called the gm, not because of a random spot check or wandering GM. It is not saying that anyone reported gets an instant infraction, thats just stupid. So stop over thinking this, if your afk and your characters still doing something, whether its riding a Make Max hit or your using a illegal ap to macro, then you risk getting a warning/infraction if someone happens by and reports you and a gm shows up and you dont respond.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

It is clear... it means that a player files a report and then a GM investigates. As long as you are not running cheat programs (and yes - they can tell) and as long as you can respond to the GM, you should not have a problem.

The OP makes no mention of this. What you care to assume is up to you.

I take the words in the OP as they are written, no assumed additions to it.

It says "it is because you were reported by a fellow player for breaking the ToS." There is absolutely no mention of anything saying a GM checks anything. It clearly states if a player. makes an accusation against you, you will receive an infraction.

Nothing in the OP says otherwise.

I have to agree. It's another asinine example of EA/Mythic customer service. Let's put up a post that's going to ignite a firestorm on the forums and walk away leaving it to burn.

That no representative of Mythic has commented on the numerous but obvious questions here is shameful.

 

[lucitus]

UOCatographer does not affect the client in any way. You cant also say only because ICQ isnt on the list it is illegal or against the ToS.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Unless i missed it somewhere, when i agreed to pay EA a monthly fee, i dont recall that they required me to monitor UHALL for updates on my ToS with them.

You don't need to monitor UHall for updates to the ToS. Every time an account is reactivated and/or every time you enter any code, if there's been a change to the ToS, you have to agree to accept the terms.

 

[WootSauce]

You don't need to monitor UHall for updates to the ToS. Every time an account is reactivated and/or every time you enter any code, if there's been a change to the ToS, you have to agree to accept the terms.

except for when they continue to bill my cards on the several accounts that I have not updated to the new billing system that they never informed me about?

 

[Petra Fyde]

Re: regarding EA and their post..

Let's leave the board pvp out please?

oki 1. the GMs don't just ban on a player's say so. How do I know? Because my hubby was taken outside the Labyrinth by a GM and told he'd been reported 3 times as an exploiter but he had nothing to worry about because he was doing nothing wrong. He got reported for healing up while mortalled - his reporter obviously didn't understand Bushido.
2. UO Cartographer, will be clarified shortly, please be patient.

 

[THP]

pinco???

 

[Xalan Dementia]

pinco???

pincos is a UI not a 3rd party program, it is fine to use.

 

[garillo]

Re: regarding EA and their post..

What spells do you think they stopped casting through walls?

Sorry if you're new, which you appear to be, but years ago they stopped spells such as chain lightning and meteor swarm from being cast through walls, as it was used to kill players inside private homes. Mysticism was overlooked and needs a fix to animate weapon.

 

[garillo]

Re: regarding EA and their post..

What spells do you think they stopped casting through walls?

Sorry if you're new, which you appear to be, but years ago they stopped spells such as chain lightning and meteor swarm from being cast through walls, as it was used to kill players inside private homes. Mysticism was overlooked and needs a fix to animate weapon.

***My sincerest apologies Sugarsmacks, it has just come to my attention that you are not new. You were not aware of this because you did not start this aspect of the game until mysticism was released.

 

[R Traveler]

What about proxy apps allowing run client behind firewalls?

 

[Kralock]

they clearly state they will give you a warning before taking action, so whats the fuss about?

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

What about tape and a beer bottle on a keyboard?

 

[LordDrago]

This is not cool... I want to know too... How is it someone else NOT sitting right next to me at my house can "know" what it is I'm running on my PC?

I mean I could go out today and tell EA/GM's that 100 people at the EM event are running anything... and what they get banned?

I think there needs to be some proof going on here... This doesn't sound good at all and before this becomes a witch hunt and a total panic I think someone with some authority best be giving more solid answers to some of this speculation.

Or, it could mean that uo team members are not actively out looking for someone running an illegal program, so the only way an investigation is launched (ie, a visit form a gm, etc.) would be someone reporting "illegal" behavior. The banning or punishment could come after the investigation. Its just the investigation initiation that is started from one player reporting another.

It could also be that UO will keep track of reporters, and if someone keeps reporting "false" incidents, they may very well become "peter".

 

[Black Sun]

I have pruned a few posts, How about we leave board PvP and personal issues out of the discussion shall we?

Actually on second thought, no, that's not a request. Further accusations and board wars will be issued infractions.
*takes off evil mod hat*



I'm taking the OP it exactly as it's suggested. It's a reminder. Do bad stuff and bad stuff will happen to you. I'm sure there's nothing to worry about as far as the "you got a mark because you were paged on" comment goes. I think people are reading too much into it. It borders on ridiculous to think that they've thrown investigations out the window and are simply banning or marking accounts because some player paged on you.

As far as what programs are approved, well that's a grey area. It's always been my understanding that if it interacts with the data stream in any way, they can detect it and you will get in trouble for using it. My rule of thumb has always been, if there's a question on legality, I don't use it.

And for those of you who are asking about ICQ, Vent, Excel, etc. Don't be foolish. They're talking about programs designed specifically to interface with the UO client. As far as EC client mods go, I have nothing to offer on that. I loathe the EC and don't use it. Although, some of the UI mods I've seen (and a few I've tried) are amazing. Pinco, I'm looking at you.

 

[Tanivar]

Or, it could mean that uo team members are not actively out looking for someone running an illegal program, so the only way an investigation is launched (ie, a visit form a gm, etc.) would be someone reporting "illegal" behavior. The banning or punishment could come after the investigation. Its just the investigation initiation that is started from one player reporting another.

It could also be that UO will keep track of reporters, and if someone keeps reporting "false" incidents, they may very well become "peter".

The word could is used a lot in this quote. Ever consider the OP is a specific statement of the new UO policy?

I've heard the line "Oh I know what it says, but you know what it really means." over the years. At least until it gets shoved somewhere you don't like it with the words "It says exactly this! Whatever impression you had of the intent means nothing joker. You violated our agreement!"

You optimitic souls keep coming up with words and meaning your imagining are in the OP. What EA has done in the past has no bearing on what it's doing now. EA suddenly put someone new in charge of UO and has made a new policy announcement in the OP with no changes in it since.

Until EA re-words that offical OP statement to actually say what you people insist on imaging what it means, it - means - exactly - what - it - says, - word - for - word.

 

[NuSair]

Re: regarding EA and their post..

that is just it, most of the guys posted pictures on here of when they were in jail or playing getting told etc.

onlythings open besides UO and UOA was ventrilo and UOC.

so you tell me?

mark teh ones who using basic funtional utilities?

There are ways to hide programs from showing up in the tool bar--- it's really not even that hard.

 

[NuSair]

i am ok with this, however they have never had the ability in the past, and as far as anyone knows dont have the ability now to " look to see if your running anything".

Actually, they have had the ability in the past...

 

[NuSair]

I could go for one... and a beer too?

Come down to Atlanta, GA and I'll buy for you both.

 

[Lynk]

How is it that I still see that character named Plague on GL dressed up in Newbie necromancer gear running the same rail every day all day?

 

[G.v.P]

I'm sure someone has said this already but the list of accepted programs hasn't changed, and won't change, unless EA turns on the "Third Party Affiliate Program" again.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

How is it that I still see that character named Plague on GL dressed up in Newbie necromancer gear running the same rail every day all day?

I see him on Pacific everyday too.

 

[Tanivar]

How is it that I still see that character named Plague on GL dressed up in Newbie necromancer gear running the same rail every day all day?

I see him on Pacific everyday too.

Ditto for Chesapeake

 

[RuSini Neb]

How is it that I still see that character named Plague on GL dressed up in Newbie necromancer gear running the same rail every day all day?

Count Baja in. Was there last night.

 

[Orgional Farimir]

How is it that I still see that character named Plague on GL dressed up in Newbie necromancer gear running the same rail every day all day?

Because they use trial accounts. So even if an account were to get banned no big deal they will just create a new one.