Can we get an Auction House system similar to World of Warcrafts please?

[Saphireena]

Shard wide vendor searches...yes

WoW auctions...no

What he said! As much as I like using the AH in WoW, it would be mismatched in a game like UO where people are able to set up their very own shops. In WoW, there's not much choice since you can't own your own land or set up vendors can you, so it -has- to have that kind of system. But not in UO. I love the fact that players visit each other's houses and meet new people this way, see each other's designs, decos, architecture. It's very gratifying both as the one who loves to show off their hard work, as it is being the one who takes in the amazing designs of others. I've met a lot of nice people from those shopping experiences and a AH would simply kill all of the above. However, as sad and embarrassed as I am to admit this, one of the reasons I've been so excited to play UO again has been because of those vendor search services out there that we cannot mention here by name. That sort of thing is badly needed in UO because of the following factors:

- Less players, less vendors about these days, so to shop around is absolutely tedious unless you do it in Luna. For the past days I've been running all over Britannia checking shops all over the lands and it's so disappointing to keep opening empty abandoned vendors.
- For those of us who find it exhausting to remember the going price of all the wares, the search service is a handy way to do a price check

And if people are afraid of merchants using it as a tool to undercut, what about a version that only lists the vendors, shops and coordinate locations of these shops, but not the actual prices. We'd still need to do some leg work to compare prices as a customer, but at least we'd know that the shop is carrying the item.

 

[Merion]

...

We don't need an auction house per se, but we do need an shard-wide search system ingame that includes all player vendors.

As for people without a house or vendors, there are PLENTY of housing spots available for people to place a house and open it up for vendors.

this!

 

[Tor the Invincible]

UO can't have useful, functional tools. Especially not if other games have had them first. Being an unmanageable pile of crap is what gives UO it's "charm" or so threads like this have tried to tell me.

(Can't have semi-automated looting of monster corpses, clicking and dragging is what makes UO a great game. Not customization or housing or anything else, clicking and dragging!)

Right now the UO economy is bought and paid for by an unholy conglomerate of professional Luna vendors and illegal goldselling search sites, but a bunch of ostriches with their heads in the sand won't dare to change that for fear that someone will, you know, vulture the auction house or something.

At least if the dedicated merchants were screwing us over on an in-game auction house, we wouldn't need to go to some scripting goldseller's website for the privilege of getting screwed.

 

[Saphireena]

I've been pondering this thing all morning and decided to use my lunch break to whip up a set of very rough screenshots of how this thing might be able to work, in keeping with the UO style and atmosphere.

1. Banks and Merchant's guild houses in cities would get a message board on their wall allowing people to "browse" the wares of the shops, and allow those with shops to list their own (or alternately have them all listed there by default). (maybe not everyone wants to advertise?)

2. Upon opening the message board it could look something like this. (and please ignore the inconsistent styles, fonts, buttons etc. The point is the idea and functionality.

Browse in alphabetical order or shortcut to the letter of the alphabet the item starts with. Or, simply do a search.

Upon clicking a desired item, a list of shoppes that carry the item opens up, showing on the right the amount of how many they are carrying. Also an image of the item shows at this level.

Upon clicking a shoppe's "Map" button, a treasure hunting type map pops up showing the location. Perhaps it could also have a "Save copy into backpack" button so you could take a copy of the map with you and go looking for the shop. This would also make it easier if you had several shoppes to check out, 1 map per shop.

Oh and in the case of all vendors being empty, the system should simply remove the shop from visibility.

 

[Eric Ravenwind]

I've been pondering this thing all morning and decided to use my lunch break to whip up a set of very rough screenshots of how this thing might be able to work, in keeping with the UO style and atmosphere.

1. Banks and Merchant's guild houses in cities would get a message board on their wall allowing people to "browse" the wares of the shops, and allow those with shops to list their own (or alternately have them all listed there by default). (maybe not everyone wants to advertise?)

2. Upon opening the message board it could look something like this. (and please ignore the inconsistent styles, fonts, buttons etc. The point is the idea and functionality.

Browse in alphabetical order or shortcut to the letter of the alphabet the item starts with. Or, simply do a search.

Upon clicking a desired item, a list of shoppes that carry the item opens up, showing on the right the amount of how many they are carrying. Also an image of the item shows at this level.

Upon clicking a shoppe's "Map" button, a treasure hunting type map pops up showing the location. Perhaps it could also have a "Save copy into backpack" button so you could take a copy of the map with you and go looking for the shop. This would also make it easier if you had several shoppes to check out, 1 map per shop.

Oh and in the case of all vendors being empty, the system should simply remove the shop from visibility.

This is absolutly fantastic! The only thing I dislike about it, is the treasure map pointing to the vendor. I would like to be able to buy the items streight off the vendor board.

Great work!

 

[Saphireena]

This is absolutly fantastic! The only thing I dislike about it, is the treasure map pointing to the vendor. I would like to be able to buy the items streight off the vendor board.

Great work!

Thank you! *curtseys* But the problem with buying right off the tool would be that people would stop visiting each other's shops, which is exactly one of the things we want to avoid at all costs. This is a MMO, so people should be out and about adventuring and travelling, meeting and interacting.

 

[Eric Ravenwind]

Then maybe add an option to teleport to the vendors? I suck at reading maps, that is one reason i suggested buying off the board.

 

[Salivern_Diago]

Eh I would have to disagree with that option Saphireena. Ilike what you've done but I like UO far more.

Trading in UO is one of its charms and if you remove that, its another nail in the coffin as far as I'm conferned.

There is no need for a central shop list (they dont exist in real life so why the hell would UO have it?). We're not WoW, we're not carebares...

Please just leave it as it is! Vendors need work yes (Empty vendors being the pain in the ass bit). but we dont need anything like that just yet.

Although if it was house based then that might work. So you click on the house sign and then can browse though the items for sale in the entire house?

 

[Merion]

I like Saphireena's idea!

In fact, I have proposed pretty much the same idea half a year ago or so. Only without the nice pictures

Personally I like the map idea - especially as the code to create maps for any given location is already there with the new t-map system. Some would prefer some kind of rune-dispenser, but I like the maps.

It's a neat compromise. You can search and still need to travel there. This means 'good' vendor places, viz. near moongates, roads or cities still have higher value than out in the woods places. But those out in the woods places still get business too, if the prices are good.

And those who oppose the idea completely... well, I like oldschool UO too, but I just don't have enough time to run hours through sosaria in search of the item I need. I either use the runes at the bank or even more often I resort to using "those search sites".

 

[Eric Ravenwind]

Eh I would have to disagree with that option Saphireena. Ilike what you've done but I like UO far more.

Trading in UO is one of its charms and if you remove that, its another nail in the coffin as far as I'm conferned.

There is no need for a central shop list (they dont exist in real life so why the hell would UO have it?). We're not WoW, we're not carebares...

Please just leave it as it is! Vendors need work yes (Empty vendors being the pain in the ass bit). but we dont need anything like that just yet.

Although if it was house based then that might work. So you click on the house sign and then can browse though the items for sale in the entire house?

Nobody is saying that you HAVE to use the system. If you wanna run all over looking for stuff the old fasioned way - go for it.

 

[Saphireena]

Then maybe add an option to teleport to the vendors? I suck at reading maps, that is one reason i suggested buying off the board.

Although this would be very cool for the lazy, it's not really consistent with the way UO operates, in which only those can recall and gate, who have the magical abilities to. And even then they first have to travel to the place to create that rune. Treasure maps and mibs don't have a "go to" button either, which is why I don't think this should.

Besides, how would the game determine a coordinate location for arrival in making sure it's not blocked by a tree or another house? And what about people using this tool to get around the world the lazy way instead of legging it or using magic? However, we do of course have moongates... but hmm...

Salivern_Diago: Fair enough, although you might have misread my idea in that with this tool you'd still have to travel to the shop and browse the vendors like normal. This tool would only serve one purpose: in giving an idea of where the object you desire to buy might be on sale. And think of it as a message board of "shop adverts" if you want to consider the RP element. As for browsing vendors, we can already do that through the house sign. Perhaps you weren't aware .

 

[Salivern_Diago]

What I can see here though is its abuse by those sites that sell gold and items. Within hours of something like this being written up they'll have a script or program written that'll search though all the shards for the cheap highly profitable items and will set a script up to go and get it. The illegal sites only update every so often so there are plenty of gaps but with an inbuilt one like this in place, it'll update instantly so there will be no chance to get the 'bargins'

Instead it'll fuel those who make money out of UO and the casual player will loose out. Prices will end up going higher as the cheaper items will be sold off.

Also you'll find that there are far more items for sale on a shard than what WoW will have to contend with. Luna has thousands of items, and if you add the rest of the shard.. Thats alot of items to deal with.

I guess what could make this work without loosing the charm of UO, is have it so that it only does Luna and Tokuno which are the prime shopping areas anyway. That way it keeps the prices in check to a point and no-one feels they've lost out. Because again if you impliment this as orginally devised, house prices in Luna would drop considerable as they are no-longer the easiest way to shop.

 

[Eric Ravenwind]

Although this would be very cool for the lazy, it's not really consistent with the way UO operates, in which only those can recall and gate, who have the magical abilities to. And even then they first have to travel to the place to create that rune. Treasure maps and mibs don't have a "go to" button either, which is why I don't think this should.

Besides, how would the game determine a coordinate location for arrival in making sure it's not blocked by a tree or another house? And what about people using this tool to get around the world the lazy way instead of legging it or using magic? However, we do of course have moongates... but hmm...

Salivern_Diago: Fair enough, although you might have misread my idea in that with this tool you'd still have to travel to the shop and browse the vendors like normal. This tool would only serve one purpose: in giving an idea of where the object you desire to buy might be on sale. And think of it as a message board of "shop adverts" if you want to consider the RP element. As for browsing vendors, we can already do that through the house sign. Perhaps you weren't aware .

I've got my heart set on buying directly off the board!!!!!1

 

[Saphireena]

What I can see here though is its abuse by those sites that sell gold and items. Within hours of something like this being written up they'll have a script or program written that'll search though all the shards for the cheap highly profitable items and will set a script up to go and get it. The illegal sites only update every so often so there are plenty of gaps but with an inbuilt one like this in place, it'll update instantly so there will be no chance to get the 'bargins'

Aaaaaaah but perhaps you did not notice that the price of these items was not mentioned in any way? And for this reason exactly. As well as to avoid undercutting. There is no way in hell that these scripting sites would have the time and resources to run all over Britannia every day to check the prices.

 

[LordDrago]

Then maybe add an option to teleport to the vendors? I suck at reading maps, that is one reason i suggested buying off the board.

Although this would be very cool for the lazy, it's not really consistent with the way UO operates, in which only those can recall and gate, who have the magical abilities to. And even then they first have to travel to the place to create that rune. Treasure maps and mibs don't have a "go to" button either, which is why I don't think this should.

Besides, how would the game determine a coordinate location for arrival in making sure it's not blocked by a tree or another house? And what about people using this tool to get around the world the lazy way instead of legging it or using magic? However, we do of course have moongates... but hmm...

Salivern_Diago: Fair enough, although you might have misread my idea in that with this tool you'd still have to travel to the shop and browse the vendors like normal. This tool would only serve one purpose: in giving an idea of where the object you desire to buy might be on sale. And think of it as a message board of "shop adverts" if you want to consider the RP element. As for browsing vendors, we can already do that through the house sign. Perhaps you weren't aware .

Per haps for X gold, the system could provide a rune for a vendor shop for those that don't want to find it via map. You have an easy but more expensive way to get to the vendor, or hoof it there youself if you are so inclined.

 

[Eric Ravenwind]

Aaaaaaah but perhaps you did not notice that the price of these items was not mentioned in any way? And for this reason exactly. As well as to avoid undercutting. There is no way in hell that these scripting sites would have the time and resources to run all over Britannia every day to check the prices.

I would like the prices to be shown though.

 

[Salivern_Diago]

I think the way Seph has explained it would work, buy not showing the prices it stops the chance of people screwing with the market.

You've won me over slightly Seph, but I am still cautious over giving unfair advantages to scripters and selling sites.

 

[Saphireena]

Eric don't get me wrong - the lazy gamer inside would like all the same things you would!

But the game developer side of me tells me that there are other things to consider than what makes things the most convenient for the player. There is a bigger picture to consider. You want to be able to buy straight off the tool but what is your solution to making people still visit shops physically?

You'd like to be able to teleport straight to the shop. But what's your solution to people misusing the tool as a mere travel device (who aren't even interested in shopping).

You'd like the price to show, but what's your solution in avoiding so that merchants aren't merely checking the lowest price, then rushing back to their own vendors to slap on an even cheaper price? There is inflation and deflation in the game economy to consider as well. We don't want to go interfering with these things too much. How about scripters automatically checking what items are for sale and buying things such as rares to sell for real cash on their site etc.

 

[phantus]

Aaaaaaah but perhaps you did not notice that the price of these items was not mentioned in any way? And for this reason exactly. As well as to avoid undercutting. There is no way in hell that these scripting sites would have the time and resources to run all over Britannia every day to check the prices.

I would like the prices to be shown though.

YOu already get that feature with the sites that provide this currently. The best part is you have a search filter and an option to buy with real life money. Nothing Saph makes is going to be superior to what already exists

I whole-heartedly appreciate Saph's work on her lunch break but giving a portion of a service that already exists with many more bells and whistles is not a good concept. Although it's perfect for UO...

 

[Saphireena]

Phantus: I see where you're coming from, and like I said in my first response to this thread - I use them myself and they are increasing my motivation to play. However...

- "those sites" are illegal and there are a lot of players in UO who refuse to use them for ethical reasons or RP reasons alone
- "those sites" may have all the bells and whistles, however they only cover Luna, Magincia and Zento was it? This tool would be supporting player shops in ALL of the lands. Something which would finally give the "little guys" a chance to get some business and attention. I think it's not right that the majority of trade is revolving around the aforementioned cities and everyone else is left out of the action. I really would love to buy from other shops as well, but after travelling for several days all over Britannia and being left empty handed, the lazy me will succumb to just using "those sites" and shopping only in those areas. It's sad but true.

 

[Eric Ravenwind]

Eric don't get me wrong - the lazy gamer inside would like all the same things you would!

But the game developer side of me tells me that there are other things to consider than what makes things the most convenient for the player. There is a bigger picture to consider. You want to be able to buy straight off the tool but what is your solution to making people still visit shops physically?

You'd like to be able to teleport straight to the shop. But what's your solution to people misusing the tool as a mere travel device (who aren't even interested in shopping).

You'd like the price to show, but what's your solution in avoiding so that merchants aren't merely checking the lowest price, then rushing back to their own vendors to slap on an even cheaper price? There is inflation and deflation in the game economy to consider as well. We don't want to go interfering with these things too much. How about scripters automatically checking what items are for sale and buying things such as rares to sell for real cash on their site etc.

I mainly, would like to buy off the board instead of teleporting to the location or whatever. As far as scripters buying stuff to sell on their site; don't they do that now?

 

[elianydd]

I would say NO to a "world-wide" AH type thing, and this is from someone who's played a LOT of MMOs, both with and without AH's.

HOWEVER, I think UO really needs SOMETHING in-game to help people find things. There are so many little shops out there spread around the world, and the world is sufficiently large, that it can be virtually impossible to find what you're looking for. It is especially frustrating with the number of "empty" shops and vendors, where you can't even tell whether they actually have anything without going there and having to open the vendor, and oftentimes, checking out the individual sub-containers one-at-a-time, only to find most if not all of them EMPTY. It is REALLY annoying (and a waste of my play time.)

I do love looking through vendors to see what they have (COUGHshoppingCOUGH) but:

1) i want to know that they actually HAVE things for sale,
2) I want at least a general idea of WHAT they have for sale,
3) I need to be able to FIND them.

At the very minimum, some form of public (in-game!) board that either 1) automatically tracks plpayer vendors, or 2) is available to player vendors to post on, to tell me where their shop is, and they'd perhaps need to come back and "refresh" the board once a month or so to ensure that the listing on the board(s) are fairly likely to be "active" vendors.

You could even put up a board in each major city around the world(s), with each board listing vendors in that part of the world, and showing you where they were on the map, if nothing else.

There could even be an option for a "player community" to put up a board so that shoppers could go to one place in that community to see what types of things are available (or which vendors in that community were actively selling, etc.)

A step up would be a way for me to somehow find vendors that had, let's say, treasure maps (in my case) for sale (or that stocked them when they could) so I could build my own (current) list of runestones for shopping.

In short, AT THE VERY LEAST, we need some mechanism better than players having to leave runestones laying on the ground in arbitrary places that I may or may not happen to pass by before someone else happens to pass by and take/trash/whatever the one or two runestones. The runestone-on-the-ground for advertising is just plain silly and inefficient. (Not that you SHOULDN'T be able to keep doing that if you want to.)

 

[Saphireena]

elianydd: Sounds like you want almost exactly the same thing I do. Did you have a chance to see my suggestion with screenies? What do you think of something like that?

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

I just love some of the replies in this thread.

Let's not have an auction house because somebody else had it first. Who cares if it would be good for the players and the game.

An auction house wouldn't eliminate vendors. Simply limit the number of items you can have on auction at one time. Twenty-five or less items, something like that. Players aren't going to close down their vendors for low-end items, resources, bulk items and such.

Let's not have a global vendor search because the scripters may or may not benefit more than the average player. Typical UO player logic.

Let's crush a system forever for the majority of players in order to knock down the scripters for a day or two or cause them the need to simply add a few more lines of code into their scripts.

It's evident from the How old are You POLL that the majority of players playing UO are over 30 and have played for years. Too many are overly resistant to change whether it would improve the game or not.

An auction house would be an excellent addition to enable efficient and secure buying and selling of high-end items. Add to that a bank account that doesn't depend upon checks and it would be perfect.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

I do love looking through vendors to see what they have (COUGHshoppingCOUGH) but:

I used to enjoy shopping thru vendors too. Back ten years ago before I had a wife, four kids and a demanding job. I don't want to spend ANY of my valuable free time anymore shopping for that one item I need or want in order to go play the game.

Put in an auction house. Put in a vendor search. Kill the classic client and watch the illegal search site disappear immediately. Kill the classic client and see how many of the tens of thousands of players that left because of cheating come back to try UO again. They left and are playing other MMOs. Games with modern graphics and UIs that they are now used to and UOs classic client looks tired and dated. The classic client is the A number one thing enabling that program that cannot be named to exist.

 

[elianydd]

elianydd: Sounds like you want almost exactly the same thing I do. Did you have a chance to see my suggestion with screenies? What do you think of something like that?

Saphireena,
Sorry, hadn't had time to read the whole thread in detail and had missed your stuff. YES! That looks/sounds awesome. Would LOVE something like that.

*****

As it is, RIGHT NOW, what we have is essentially (in real-world terms) something akin to this:

I decide I want to go shopping today for widgets.

So, I get in my car and drive to the local bank to see if there are any leaflets laying around for stores. Leaflets might or might not mention anything about WHAT the store stocks.

Now, between the stores I know about and any new one I might've found a leaflet for, I start driving around.

First, I go to the new store I found the leaflet for. It's a big mall! (Player house) I go in excitedly!

Inside the mall, there are a bunch of storefronts (NPC vendors) but each is completely blacked over and I can't see inside, yet each entices me in with promises of interesting goods at great prices.

I go into the first store I come across, but despite all the signs of sales and wonderful deals, it is nothing but a room full of empty shelves. I leave.

I go to the next store. Inside, there are giant boxes on the floor, each marked with what type of item it contains! Peering inside each box ('cause I love to see what kinds of unexpected deals I might find) it turns out that the first 5 boxes I open are completely empty. The sixth box, however, (marked "ARTIES" oooh!) contains various types of colored plants and seeds. I leave, somewhat disillusioned.

Three empty stores later, I finally find a store that has shelves with (appropriately named) rings and other jewelry, but most of it is for gargoyles, and just don't fit me.

Frustrated, I leave this mall, throwing away the leaflet.

I ride around in my car for a while looking for malls I haven't been to before. They seem to be everywhere these days. But 4 out of 5 that I stop at seems to be a bunch of storefronts eagerly hawking wares that don't exist. I waste half my day.

Finally, I go to my old faithful mall, knowing at least, that they carry the kind of stuff I know I can use. Getting there, I go in. Unfortunately, the owner hasn't been around for a few weeks, and there's nothing new.

Saddened, and frustrated at having wasted much of my day shopping and getting nothing out of it, I head home, vowing to NOT BOTHER trying to shop again for a while.



This is what "shopping for stuff" on player vendors is like in UO right now.

 

[Saphireena]

I used to enjoy shopping thru vendors too. Back ten years ago before I had a wife, four kids and a demanding job. I don't want to spend ANY of my valuable free time anymore shopping for that one item I need or want in order to go play the game.

Are you saying that games should change according to their playerbase's life situations? And if so, which demographic should it support? You say you enjoyed the mechanics when you were younger and had more time on your hands. Thus, if UO were to change according to your needs, wouldn't that be robbing all of the younger players, or those with time on their hands of the very game play experience you used to enjoy?

Listen, I'm a 42 year old single mom with 2 boys and work full time, I cannot "afford" to "waste" time on such things either - but then I just modify my play style accordingly instead of expecting the game to change because of me. And personally it's that old magic that keeps me coming back to UO. I've spent countless hours in WoW in the auction house, just standing there numbed and silent amongst 30 other numb and silent players, all of us together but still so alone. All of us selling to one another, yet not exchanging a single word. I'd HATE to see that in UO.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

I used to enjoy shopping thru vendors too. Back ten years ago before I had a wife, four kids and a demanding job. I don't want to spend ANY of my valuable free time anymore shopping for that one item I need or want in order to go play the game.

You say you enjoyed the mechanics when you were younger and had more time on your hands. Thus, if UO were to change according to your needs, wouldn't that be robbing all of the younger players, or those with time on their hands of the very game play experience you used to enjoy?

There is merit to your statement. I do believe however, that any new, younger players, especially those from this current, me, me, me, I want what I want NOW, generation, are much less likely to enjoy wasting hours looking for stuff.

Additionally, years ago UO was much simpler. There have been thousands of items added to the game. AoS brought in a mind numbing amount of data to process when searching for armor, jewls and weapons. Searching thru vendors with a hundred pieces of armor or one hundred pieces of jewelry wouldn't be fun anymore no matter how much time I had.

 

[Ricsreturn]

All of us selling to one another, yet not exchanging a single word. I'd HATE to see that in UO.

one thing I never see in those games I see too much in UO is how someone scammed them. UO is infamous for scammers. My first week back I witnessed someone selling a Cu pet of rare color for a considerable amount of money more then any player could hold so they had to improvise the sale which allowed the buyer to scam the pet without paying. I asked why he didn't use the vendors in mag he said they couldn't handle the amount the Cu was worth. But anything that would eliminate risks of being scammed by players would be a good thing for the future of UO.

If the Dev's could create vendors such as the new ones in the bazaar to allow items to be auctioned it would eliminate the ability for players to be scammed. There's no warnings for newer players about the scams to watch out for or how to protect themselves from exploited sales because there's no where to post it without it being locked or deleted which is a whole different subject which isn't allowed to be discussed here.

 

[phantus]

Phantus: I see where you're coming from, and like I said in my first response to this thread - I use them myself and they are increasing my motivation to play. However...

- "those sites" are illegal and there are a lot of players in UO who refuse to use them for ethical reasons or RP reasons alone
- "those sites" may have all the bells and whistles, however they only cover Luna, Magincia and Zento was it? This tool would be supporting player shops in ALL of the lands. Something which would finally give the "little guys" a chance to get some business and attention. I think it's not right that the majority of trade is revolving around the aforementioned cities and everyone else is left out of the action. I really would love to buy from other shops as well, but after travelling for several days all over Britannia and being left empty handed, the lazy me will succumb to just using "those sites" and shopping only in those areas. It's sad but true.

Well, being perfectly honests here I'm at the point where the illegality of the website is no longer a consideration. This is a basic MMO function and it has to be implemented in some manner that is consistant with currently MMO reality. That is to say, I have a system where I put in the item I desire through a browse or a key word search and then I buy from that interface the object I want and it's either mailed to me or put in my backpack. I do not wish to travel the lands looking for vendors nor do I wish to buy a recall rune to the shop displayed in the results. Yes I'm lazy. Yes I'm selfish in my regard to have a system the way I want it. Yes I'm spoiled into thinking I can have it this way because I have seen it work in Sooooooooooooooooo many other games the fact we have to discuss this system is ridiculous in it's scope and concept.

The system needs to be shardwide with filter for facets. This is a simple request and has not been met by the development side of the game resulting in the cheating(illegal *laughs*) sites dominating the tool. They have luna houses and it functions for them. I want a UO tool to function for us all but since there is no development committment to this I give my money to those who do it on their own. I should not have to do this but then again I should not have to point out obvious facts about MMO gaming to people who program and run the damn game I've been paying for over 10 years. Color me disgusted with this entire concept.

Please don't take my attitude toward this as a comment on your suggestion. I find it has merit although even your proposal doesn't hold up to where it needs to be in today's market. I do however, very much appreciate your commitment and idea.

 

[Eric Ravenwind]

I don't, and never have, chat with people while shopping vendors. I simply want to buy what-ever it is that im looking for, so i can go back to playing the game.

 

[Ludes]

I vote NO..

For reason already explained by others as well as I could.

 

[A Thought Elemental]

This is a basic MMO function and it has to be implemented in some manner that is consistant with currently MMO reality. That is to say, I have a system where I put in the item I desire through a browse or a key word search

-

has not been met by the development side of the game resulting in the cheating(illegal *laughs*) sites dominating the tool.

This.

It simply needs to be done, it is just like that. Believe it or, don't, but it's how it is.

Don't forget that *every single 3rd party site* which offers a database like this is violating the game's TOS every minute of every day. Their process requires bots to go out and browse all the vendors to get the data. Right?

I don't believe that the direct income generated for UO by the afore-mentioned 3rd parties is all that significant. What could be significant is what holes they may be covering in UO's present design by providing needed items/consumables/services to the playerbase. If it's not already known internally, those things need to be studied. The processes which are providing the player economy with the items everyone needs (BOD reward items, plant-resources?) must be understood (if they are not now). Once it's all really known, that's when control can be taken back in a way that is win for everyone (well, win for everyone except 3rd party botters who may be sucking in the game's gold for potential sale etc.).

BTW the pet vendors in Magincia were a very good step in the right direction.

I write all of this with the presumption that the best direction for UO is one where the game design leads the game's direction, and therefore, out of necessity, the game designers expect to exercise control over its economy. It is like, either the game designers will control it, or if there is any real money to be made, pseudo-players will take control and gain from it at the game design's expense (or even, the company's expense, literally {buddy codes}). Gold-seller-types are NOT a game's friend, i'm sorry...

 

[Tor the Invincible]

Any in-game system less versatile and powerful than existing search sites will go unused, and represents nothing but a waste of development resources. You have to show the price, you have to show the location on a map more easily readable than a treasure map, and at the very LEAST you really need to give the user a rune to the shop in question.

The overwhelming majority of UO players are NOT randomly roaming the world looking for random vendors that might just randomly happen to be selling whatever it is they happen to be looking for. The entire reason Luna is ABLE to charge vastly more than other vendors is because players are willing to pay a large premium specifically to avoid having to randomly roam the world.

Right now the game's entire economy is owned lock, stock, and barrel by scripting goldsellers. Opponents of an idea like this are left trying to explain why having a vendor search option owned and controlled by scripters is better than having one controlled by the developers.

Will some evil scripter buy up every 120 magery scroll (or whatever) on the shard and cackle maniacally as everyone becomes his slaves? Man, someone who worries about this, please tell me what's stopping him from doing that RIGHT NOW. You don't think there's a stack of 120 magery scrolls sitting on some random vendor in the woods near Cove or something, waiting for players to experience the magic of UO by laboriously roaming the world for hours to find them, do you?

 

[Saphireena]

I do believe however, that any new, younger players, especially those from this current, me, me, me, I want what I want NOW, generation, are much less likely to enjoy wasting hours looking for stuff.

Sadly, you're probably right. But I was actually referring more to the concept and ethic of expecting a game to change according to how your life situation evolves. That said, it is true that most UO players will most likely be the ones who were in their teens or 20 somethings when UO started and most are probably in the same life situation as you and I now. And most likely, the only players who will still be around in 5 years will be the very same crowd . But even if the vast majority of players don't have time for such things, I would still not change a game because of that. For me at least, it's the realism of all the little tasks you can spend hours doing that makes part of the magic. I can't count how many times I've told people with sparkly eyes about how you can make cloth yourself in UO by sheering sheep or gathering cotton. THAT is time consuming "nonsense", but THAT is also magic. For me at least.

Additionally, years ago UO was much simpler. There have been thousands of items added to the game. AoS brought in a mind numbing amount of data to process when searching for armor, jewls and weapons. Searching thru vendors with a hundred pieces of armor or one hundred pieces of jewelry wouldn't be fun anymore no matter how much time I had.

A very good point actually. I have to admit that the search engines have managed to dissipate some of the anxiety I had towards the ever-growing amount of items. Before, grasping just what is out there, what to do with it and how much it's worth felt out of reach and I always felt like I'm missing out on something. It was bad enough that they brought those stats into weapons. That alone causes me so much stress because I never know what's valuable and what's not. This is a completely different topic of course, but they need to bring back a title system for weapons. Sure, keep the stats for those who want to read them but have some type of title set like in the old days that give "us simple folk" an easy way to determine if something is good or not.

 

[Saphireena]

There's no warnings for newer players about the scams to watch out for or how to protect themselves from exploited sales because there's no where to post it without it being locked or deleted which is a whole different subject which isn't allowed to be discussed here.

This much is true. But you're going to absolutely hate me for saying this - but even scammers are part of UO's charm for me. I come from back in the day when there was no Felucca and Trammel, just one Britannia. It was a time when player's learned the hard way how to become street smart. Didn't want to be robbed? Place a trapped chest in your backpack or go into hiding. Didn't want to be murdered in the forest? Learn how to hide, work in packs, learn how to fight. The same can be said for scammers. Just as in real life, we need to learn how to be smart in the way we do business and it was all a learning process to understand how it was done and how to protect oneself from it. But oh how utterly satisfying it was once you'd had your hard knocks and knew your way around the block! Oh how wonderful it was to find honest good merchants and form lasting business relationships with them! Again, that is UO magic right there. I do agree though, that new players need some sort of warning. But it would be good that it was done in a natural RP way instead of some scary list of warnings before you even log on. More like integrated into a quest or something.

 

[A Thought Elemental]

This much is true. But you're going to absolutely hate me for saying this - but even scammers are part of UO's charm for me. I come from back in the day when there was no Felucca and Trammel, just one Britannia. It was a time when player's learned the hard way how to become street smart. Didn't want to be robbed? Place a trapped chest in your backpack or go into hiding. Didn't want to be murdered in the forest? Learn how to hide, work in packs, learn how to fight. The same can be said for scammers.

I'm sorry but, no... as a general principle, MMOs cannot afford to roll that way with scammers..

Things like use of the game's stealing skill, snooping skill, guard-calling, and ability to PK are within the game's designed mechanics and as such are part of a controllable system.

Scams are one way for a player to abuse another in a way that is beyond this control. At its core, it is always abuse. It's destructive to the player's overall experience in the game due to potentially being one of the most disturbing forms of harrassment one player can do to another.

Should habitual scammers be in an MMO, they tend to be a small subset of the playerbase who are frequently unhealthy individuals with certain personality disorders. Given the opportunity, one of the main reasons for their participating in your MMO is to scam, and by definition this activity can only be outside of the intended game's use/design. This alone qualifies the behavior as a TOS issue.

Further, the net effect of scamming is destructive. I havent heard of anyone who enjoys being scammed. An environment that permits scamming is hard for a person of normal sensibility to take seriously or, importantly, respect. It reflects badly on the game and acts as a natural encouragement for players to float out the door to seek a better experience elsewhere.

It is not sensible in an MMO to permit theft/scamming that is not controlled/limited/playable as a designed part of the game. It's definitely in an MMO's best interest to remove from the game the unhealthy individuals who demonstrate the ability and willingness to be a repeat scammer.

The tolerance for scamming that I have observed over the years within UO has been a huge disservice to it. I think that the damage done by scammers, both those who get reported (but no action taken), and those who the players may feel unable to report, has been great. These are simply not experiences that customers will stay for if there is a show in town that doesn't have it. For the sake of what users of UO remain, the habitual scammers here should be pursued with ferocity and ejected.

An MMO which wishes to retain its customers should consider itself as having the obligation to guard their environment against those few, ill individuals who would show with these damaging, 100% self-centered, and game-disrespecting intentions.

 

[Tor the Invincible]

It does not represent some kind of "me me me" moral depravity to want a clean, effective interface in order to accomplish your goals quickly efficiently. Some of you sick masochists need to realize this.

Nobody wants to search the woods for vendors. Nobody IS searching the woods for vendors. Search sites rule the UO economy for a reason.

Some of you seem to want to believe that running around the woods looking for vendors is normal and only a few weird cheater types use search sites. No. Search sites are what 99% of everyone uses.

 

[Saphireena]

Nobody wants to search the woods for vendors. Nobody IS searching the woods for vendors. Search sites rule the UO economy for a reason.

Nobody wants to, but at least I have to if I can't find what I'm looking for on a search site. Tell me, what do you do if there is an item you absolutely need (want) and it hasn't been sold by anyone visible to the search engine for say a week?

 

[hen]

Auction houses are great for arcade games like WoW but not so much for online worlds like UO.

 

[Serafi]

Can we please NOT have an auction house like Wow. UO has its own vendor system that has character and charm, and where buyer and seller are able to meet up with eachother occasionally and have a lil chat.

What we could use is a wide shard legal search function, which would go a long way to ease some of the frustration people experience when they look for a specific item. Love your work there Saph, simple and very UOish.

 

[MikevonHammer]

Can we please NOT have an auction house like Wow. UO has its own vendor system that has character and charm, and where buyer and seller are able to meet up with eachother occasionally and have a lil chat.

What we could use is a wide shard legal search function, which would go a long way to ease some of the frustration people experience when they look for a specific item. Love your work there Saph, simple and very UOish.

Problem is: How are you going to find that player vendor way out in the middle of no where that has reasonable priced goods? I looked at a handful of vendors around luna, and the majority were either over priced, or empty.
An example of over priced is arrows. When i last had a vendor, I sold them for 1gp per arrow, I came across a vendor that had them for 10gp per arrow.

Now if there was a cheaper vendor on my shard, how would I find it, without wasting a hundred hours looking for it?

So an auction house may not be desired, but how about an in game "advertising" system. That a player can enter their location, the item they are looking for, and the results would show you the location and vendor name and price of goods.
Then all you have to do is go to that location and shop.

 

[Ricsreturn]

the system doesn't have to be anything like wow's auction house. UO now has a bazaar in Mag instead of resource or pet vendors put in the ability to auction an item simple as that.

know what would really be cool is gypsy wagons. RPing as traveling merchants kinda like the NPC ones in iish but for players.

 

[Saphireena]

I'm sorry but, no... as a general principle, MMOs cannot afford to roll that way with scammers...

I can completely understand where you're coming from, however I'm wondering if there are two types of scammers. The ones who are out to cause grief to others and to corrupt the system and those who play a scammer just as they would a thief or murderer. In UO, I have been the victim of both scamming and extreme griefing.

The scam happened in a trade around the bank and it was one of those situations where I should have known better. It stung when it happened sure, but I learned from it and was a smarter trader after. The experience did not leave me with scars and I remember it with good humor, just as I do moments when I was robbed by a thief or murdered by a PK. They are funny to think back on.

But griefing is a whole different thing in my book. Back when I was running the Big Mamas Nightclub every Saturday night, one night we had some rowdy boys causing some lag trouble with their spells and they refused to stop so we ejected and banned them from the castle. This started a war which would continue for months and which would leave me feeling miserable after every Saturday, often in tears. They got their guildies together and would come outside the castle while people were lining up to get in and bad mouth us and harass the customers by casting spells and setting dragons free etc. Calling a GM resolved that issue and he turned up in a robe to tell them to stop. (those were the good old days eh?) But did they stop? No-ho-ho, they only got smarter in the way they did it. They got a hold of my personal info and started harassing me out of the game, all the while working on a plan that would be the ultimate shocker. They actually tracked down the person who owned a small tower in front of the castle, bought the tower off them, and made a casino to compete with us. Then every Saturday night they'd spam their casino advertisements around the people lining up and would lure them away and into their casino instead. Talk about going to lengths eh? Eventually I had enough and it was enough to actually make me quit UO. So yeah, I know about griefing. And THAT experience left scars. The scamming incident didn't.

I still insist that griefing and scamming are two different things. To me it feels like calling scammer a "griefer" would be equal to calling a thief or murderer a griefer too. I mean that's what they do isn't it? Kill you or rob you and laugh in your face?

As long as scammers do so within the game rule set and without the misuse of game mechanics, I feel they have a place in UO.

 

[A Thought Elemental]

Back when I was running the Big Mamas Nightclub every Saturday night, one night we had some rowdy boys causing some lag trouble with their spells and they refused to stop so we ejected and banned them from the castle. This started a war

Now that is one ****ed up story. These sorts of things **** me off. I'ma just shut up instead of commenting...

I still insist that griefing and scamming are two different things. To me it feels like calling scammer a "griefer" would be equal to calling a thief or murderer a griefer too. I mean that's what they do isn't it? Kill you or rob you and laugh in your face?

As long as scammers do so within the game rule set and without the misuse of game mechanics, I feel they have a place in UO.

Well... maybe consider it this way.

A player who PKs you is doing so because he has some combat skill which enables it. He's a mage or an archer or, similar, and in the PVP zone the mechanics of UO allow him to do this.

But if instead of killing you with his skills, he runs around the corner and lures mobs onto you, which kill you for him, that's against the game's terms of service. Same outcome of course - - your death - - except that one utilizes a planned and controlled game mechanic (his combat skills). The other could be done by a player's crafter, which is not intended. Mob luring in general is not meant as part of the intended PVP experience. So - - it's got a name - mob luring - and it's against TOS.

I suggest that scamming is to stealing what mob luring is to PKing. Same outcome, but one is outside of the design. And the one is also highly objectionable to people of usual sensibilities.

The way to transform scamming into being like stealing/PKing would be for the game designers to design it into the game. It would presumably involve adding the 'scamming' skill, perhaps have its success require a high stealing skill, perhaps pick a stat to augment it, and importantly, design its limitations.

Also, be aware that in practice, the scams in UO do frequently abuse a game mechanic or mislead a player about a game mechanic to empower the theft. Example scams I've seen in person in UO (I was not the victim, just an observer):


[*] Scammer in Britain lying to and tricking players who thought they were buying a black horse into paying large amounts of gold for a regular one instead. The trade window was incapable of representing the traded horse's color at the time.


[*] Scammer tricked a guildie into paying a lot of gold for what was supposed to be a particular, rare robe, but the rare item was swapped at the last moment for a common one that looked identical in the trade window. And I do mean, literally, looked identical in the trade window, including the name. It was a hue issue.


[*] Before checks existed. Scammer was supposedly selling a deed to a house which he had purchased but not actually needed. In full knowledge of the results of doing this, the scammer instructed the buyer to put all of the gold into a bag and then pass him the bag in a trade window. At the time, this caused the bag (with all of its gold) to fall to the ground, where the scammer quickly picked it up and put it into his own bank.


In the above cases btw... the GMs were paged for help and did NOTHING (and it's time for me to shut up again before I get on a roll..)

But even when it does not use a game mechanic trick, its still destructive when it occurs.... mmos that are exersizing good sense don't allow any of this, I mean, I don't know what more to say.