[Arms Lore] Soulstone your Arms Lore when crafting armor to imbue!

[Old Man of UO]

I haven't seen this trick before, so if someone else has posted it just ignore me, and it just came to me as I was making sleeves for my new Virtuoso suit.

It just came to me that the chance to get that perfect piece is much much greater if your remove arms lore when crafting armor and looking for at least two resists that did not get the Arms Lore bonus. This lets me add two extra imbuing properties to something else.

Why? A GM+ Blacksmith with Arms Lore adds +20 randomly distributed resist points to a piece. Without Arms Lore, you only add +16 resist points (15 points for elf or gargoyle).

How much of a difference does that make? Using combination probability of 16/20 points over 5 resists:
C(16,5) = 4,368 possible combinations
C(20,5) = 15,504 possible combinations

Now, since you can't add more than 15 points to any resists, you have to adjust for those combinations, and the true numbers are"
W/O Arms Lore = 4,368 - 5 = 4,363 possible combinations
With Arms Lore = 15,504 - 25 = 15,479 possible combinations

That is a HUGE difference.

This after about 500 tries once I soulstoned my arms lore - no extra points in Poison and Energy Resists:

 

[Gorbs]

Ok, but this is the same as if you were to have GM Arms Lore and arrive at a piece with:
8
7
10
3
8

Since imbuing resists is not additive there is no benefit to having 3 poison and 3 energy v. 3 poison and 8 energy if you are going to use two imbues on those two resists.

 

[Old Man of UO]

Ok, but this is the same as if you were to have GM Arms Lore and arrive at a piece with:
8
7
10
3
8

Since imbuing resists is not additive there is no benefit to having 3 poison and 3 energy v. 3 poison and 8 energy if you are going to use two imbues on those two resists.

It's not the same - I don't need more poison/energy. The advantage is when you want to add resists only to the other three and leave poison and energy alone. That gives you two extra non-resist properties to imbue.

Edit:
By the way, I get about 1 in 10 pieces that have one property with no bonus resist when I removed Arms Lore. It was about 1:50 before.

 

[Old Man of UO]

With an Elf or Gargoyle instead of human, with only 15 bonus points:

C(15,5) = 3,003 possible combinations.

That is 1/5th the number compared to GM Arms lore.

 

[sirion]

This "trick" makes sense, and I wish I had realized it earlier!

I just tried with Barbed Leather.
With Lore, total resist is 47.
Without is 43.

Now, because I am already fixed with many other armor parts, therefore I needed to imbue certain resist to the highest number. For that, I needed to tailor those resist as low as possible to begin with.

 

[Gorbs]

I still don't follow. If you're not imbuing poison or energy then any resist imbue will cover up resists applied by the exceptional bonus.

So, your piece is 8-7-10-3-3. What are you intending the final resists to be after imbue. Ignore enhance for now to keep it simple.

 

[Storm]

I learned this not long after imbuing came out some one on here had mentioned it now the only time i use lore is if making weapons (if I want di) or making a generic lrc suit

 

[Old Man of UO]

I still don't follow. If you're not imbuing poison or energy then any resist imbue will cover up resists applied by the exceptional bonus.

So, your piece is 8-7-10-3-3. What are you intending the final resists to be after imbue. Ignore enhance for now to keep it simple.

ACK! LOL You're right - I'll only end up with 8-7-10-18-18, it's not what I thought at all. So I end up with about the same thing anyway....

Never mind... *kicks a rock*



What I ended up with is 8/7/10/17/17 with MR2, LMC 8 and LRC 20, but sacrificed 4 resist - not sure it was worth the effort after all, but saves going through thousands of leather sleeves

 

[CorwinXX]

It seems you muss up the reason and the consequence.

Everyone says "If you're going to imbue fire to an item you need it has as less fire res as possible". But this is completely wrong. An item with 15/15/15/15/15 resists is better for imbuing fire then an item with 10/3/10/10/10 because the imbued item will get more total resistances.

The true statement sounds like "If you're going to imbue fire to an item the fire res on it does't matter but you want other res be as high as possible". Due there is a cap for total res then the less your fire res the higher other res will be. To check a fire res is just the simplest way to calculate the sum of other res.

There is a sense to reduce your fire res by increasing other res, but there is no sense to reduce your fire res by decreasing total sum.

 

[Old Man of UO]

It seems you muss up the reason and the consequence.
...
There is a sense to reduce your fire res by increasing other res, but there is no sense to reduce your fire res by decreasing total sum.

You are absolutely right... I got a bit confused.

However, in the overall resist the piece I finally made after another 1,000 attempts gave me one more point total resist because I just couldn't get that perfect piece with Arms Lore. Perhaps another 14,000 tries...

 

[NuSair]

Reading this thread had given me a headache.

I can't think of a single instance where I would want to take Arms Lore off then crafting armor. It doesn't make sense.

As far as fire being the lowest possible... that's a pretty good guide to go by, and there is a reason for that. If you have a limited number of points to spread out and you know you are imbuing fire, then the less points in fire the better.

Now, once you get down to the last piece or two, and you are looking for something like x/x/10/x/8, then you are right, in general, it really doesn't matter what the value of fire (or physical/poison for that matter) as long as you hit the numbers in cold and energy.

 

[5% Luck]

When crafting base peices for an imbued suit, if you count up the armslore bonus (X5 per +1 every 20 skill points) on a full imbued suit that is 2 whole mods that count out as resists buff if armslore is not present.

Now I can say if I were an imbuer by trade and was cobbling together a "quick suit" for a stranger I might indeed drop the armslore so the base pieces were a little easier to make ....OR I could imbue over a +0 to +5 base resist and just count that as the lost arms lore bonus and the results would typically be better.

With all this I do however drop the armslore when crafting neon weapons with a dull copper runic. Reason being when the runic adds a DI mod if its over 35 but under 40 that will "soak up" a potentially bad mod that other wise might have ruined a weapon.

 

[Old Man of UO]

...
With all this I do however drop the armslore when crafting neon weapons with a dull copper runic. Reason being when the runic adds a DI mod if its over 35 but under 40 that will "soak up" a potentially bad mod that other wise might have ruined a weapon.

After a bit of testing and getting feedback here, I can see that removing arms lore when making armor probably isn't the best idea in the long run, but I hadn't considered this for weapons.

Hmm... Looking at the mods for a DC hammer and the chance that it will give you 1-4 DI, I'm not sure this is much of a bonus or even possible. DC hammers give you 1-2 properties with 40-100% intensity each - how can you get 36-39 DI at all if it's an exceptional weapon? Can you explain this more? How often does the "soaking up" happen?

 

[Gorbs]

With all this I do however drop the armslore when crafting neon weapons with a dull copper runic. Reason being when the runic adds a DI mod if its over 35 but under 40 that will "soak up" a potentially bad mod that other wise might have ruined a weapon.

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Is there any chance you can rephrase it?

 

[NuSair]

When crafting base peices for an imbued suit, if you count up the armslore bonus (X5 per +1 every 20 skill points) on a full imbued suit that is 2 whole mods that count out as resists buff if armslore is not present.

ummm.... the bonus from Arm's Lore is not counted towards imbuing weight.... so, not sure what you are saying here.

Now I can say if I were an imbuer by trade and was cobbling together a "quick suit" for a stranger I might indeed drop the armslore so the base pieces were a little easier to make ....OR I could imbue over a +0 to +5 base resist and just count that as the lost arms lore bonus and the results would typically be better.

Ok, I think I see what you are saying, but that is incorrect. The Arm's Lore bonus is not counted against in the imbuing weight of an item.

With all this I do however drop the armslore when crafting neon weapons with a dull copper runic. Reason being when the runic adds a DI mod if its over 35 but under 40 that will "soak up" a potentially bad mod that other wise might have ruined a weapon.

I just either make the weapon exceptional and reduce the DI to 1% or use a crafter specially for making weapons that has no or very low chance of making an exceptional weapon.

But, with the new patch, that isn't necessary anymore since there is a way to remove the DI bonus from an exceptionally made weapon.

 

[Old Man of UO]

With all this I do however drop the armslore when crafting neon weapons with a dull copper runic. Reason being when the runic adds a DI mod if its over 35 but under 40 that will "soak up" a potentially bad mod that other wise might have ruined a weapon.

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Is there any chance you can rephrase it?

I'm not sure either. The only way I can see the mods fit into his description is if it is not an exceptional weapon - then the damage increase can be in the 36-39 range. Other than that, I'm not sure what he is saying.

 

[elspeth]

But, with the new patch, that isn't necessary anymore since there is a way to remove the DI bonus from an exceptionally made weapon.

You can? How do you remove the DI bonus?

 

[NuSair]

But, with the new patch, that isn't necessary anymore since there is a way to remove the DI bonus from an exceptionally made weapon.

You can? How do you remove the DI bonus?

Someone posted about it in another thread, there is an item (guessing you make it) called a whetstone that is used to remove the damage increase bonus off exceptionally made weapons (that haven't been imbued yet).

 

[5% Luck]

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Is there any chance you can rephrase it?

Ok...

Its a tiny tiny chance but its there...

An exceptionally crafted weapon has 35% DI with armslore its 40% Di.

If the runic rolls a DI bonus under 35% it always gets bumped to another mod.

If the runic rolls over 40% DI it stays on there. (and can be lowered via imbuing if that is something you want) That will spare you a mod that otherwise might be unwanted thereby ruining the weapon.

Now, if you drop the armslore there is a very small chance, tiny infact that you roll a neon or neon potentate with between 35% and 40% DI.

Very small indeed but its there.

Not big enough to use a frag or buy a separate soulstone for but if you have an empty might as well kind of thing.

My thinking was when crafting for neons every bit helps.

 

[5% Luck]

Someone posted about it in another thread, there is an item (guessing you make it) called a whetstone that is used to remove the damage increase bonus off exceptionally made weapons (that haven't been imbued yet).

As far as this is concerned, I read a dev post that this was going to go in but it was a part of the new shame content over an extended patching phase.

Its a cat out of the bag!

It was meant to remove negative mods on the new armor but not unless it "becomes necessary" through an extended test of the new mob loot tables. As it is, its not a part of the actual coding. Only a contingency.

 

[NuSair]

As far as this is concerned, I read a dev post that this was going to go in but it was a part of the new shame content over an extended patching phase.

Its a cat out of the bag!

It was meant to remove negative mods on the new armor but not unless it "becomes necessary" through an extended test of the new mob loot tables. As it is, its not a part of the actual coding. Only a contingency.

That is incorrect. What you are referring too is the ability to remove the negative effects off the new magic loot, which MAY go into effect at some point and will cost Clean Up Britannia points.

http://vboards.stratics.com/2036695-post209.html

That is the whetstone, shows how it is made and yes, it is in publish 73.

 

[Gorbs]

Ok...

Its a tiny tiny chance but its there...

An exceptionally crafted weapon has 35% DI with armslore its 40% Di.

If the runic rolls a DI bonus under 35% it always gets bumped to another mod.

If the runic rolls over 40% DI it stays on there. (and can be lowered via imbuing if that is something you want) That will spare you a mod that otherwise might be unwanted thereby ruining the weapon.

Now, if you drop the armslore there is a very small chance, tiny infact that you roll a neon or neon potentate with between 35% and 40% DI.

Very small indeed but its there.

Not big enough to use a frag or buy a separate soulstone for but if you have an empty might as well kind of thing.

My thinking was when crafting for neons every bit helps.

Ok, I get the theory. I searched for info to confirm that yesterday, but didn't really find anything. In theory since your chances of rolling DI bonus from a DC runic run 40% (20) to 100% (50) it should happen up to 50% of the time where you get 35DI or less out of the DI roll, right?

 

[5% Luck]

Ok, I get the theory. I searched for info to confirm that yesterday, but didn't really find anything. In theory since your chances of rolling DI bonus from a DC runic run 40% (20) to 100% (50) it should happen up to 50% of the time where you get 35DI or less out of the DI roll, right?

All I can really say is I have rolled 36-39 di on dull hammer crafted weps occasionally. As far as how often that rolls... IDK

Im sure there are some math players around that might have the gumption to do out the probability but I can not.