You asked, Mr. Skalski

[UOPlayer4LYFE]

What I want to see:

A reason to play UO again other than just the occasional yew gate fight or raid. For about 3-4 years now the only reason I've kept my account active is because the PvP in UO is unmatched by any other game I've ever played. Unfortunately, even PvP has become a rarity and I barely seem to log on to UO at all. So in a nut shell this is what I would like to see:

-A reason to PvP again. Power scrolls are what about 8 years old? There simply is no incentive to actively do spawns anymore. Replicas were a great way to get people back into champ spawns, but that was added quite some time ago.

-Correctly balancing PvP. I know pub 72 (or was it 71?) focused heavily on PvP balance, but, as usual, the changes only made PvP worse. Frankly, the Dev team has proved time and time again they are not knowledgeable enough about PvP in order to make the changes necessary to balance it. Somebody desperately needs to step up and actually learn what PvP in UO is about before further ruining it.

-A reason to PvM again. The introduction of imbuing made 95% of all PvM absolutely pointless. I still can't believe imbuing was allowed to be so ridiculously overpowered, and has barely been adjusted since its release. I realize the revamp of Shame is an attempt to overcome this problem, but making even more overpowered items is not the answer. Rather than focusing on how to adjust items in the game, I believe changing core aspects instead (i.e. skills, spells, etc) is much more important, and where the majority of the problems lie. I DO NOT want to see UO become WoW, which it seems to have been trying oh-so-hard to do these past few years.

Ultimately I just want to see UO become fun again. For me, and many other "Vets" (by Vets I mean the people who have mastered just about everything in the game, not the people who have played this game since beta and still die to barracoon on a sampire) UO is just too easy anymore. Almost nothing in the game is challenging, and it seems as if every patch is attempting to make UO even easier. This goes for both PvM AND PvP.

This is my opinion on the current state (of emergency) in UO. Thanks for reading.

 

[anna anomalous]

completely agree. we need more challenging activities that doesn't consist of a grind.

 

[soze]

completely agree. we need more challenging activities that doesn't consist of a grind.

Exactly!! Challenging DOES NOT have to equal a grind.

 

[Mirt]

I agree that challenging and grind is not the same thing.

 

[CovenantX]

I cant say i disagree with anything in this post, well worded, and true.

Pvm - With that said, Don't be afraid to Overpower mobs (preferably bosses & peerlesses) and some lessers. like add weapon specs to More mobs say difficulty rating of 1-10 everything 6+ should have special abilities?

Splintering weapon, hit spells, executioner's reflective ability, succubus' life drain ability, tentacles of the harrower's defensive ability, the list goes on and on, there's just a lack of challenge in pvm, there needs to be more (Group premoting fights - pvm related not just in fel) but, a point to do both tram & fel ones.

drop rates are low & mobs aren't hard enough (if you can solo it, Its not hard enough).


Pvp -
1) Archery & Throwing being harder hitters than 2h melee weapons, should be adressed imo, atleast a slight re-balance with base damage 2 handed melee weapons should hit harder imo than a bow or a throwing weapon.

2) Poisoning, Poisoning itself had no problems with it, It was the potions curing too fast, thus making poison not do damage with higher lvl poison because of it being cured over and over instantly because of potions.
I think the "Orange petal effect" with poisoning is a little OP too.

two things I personally would like to see removed, is the tactics requirement for special weapon moves & the restriction on casters to not beable to toggle weapon moves on While casting or holding spells.

 

[iamSnippa]

-A reason to PvM again. The introduction of imbuing made 95% of all PvM absolutely pointless. I still can't believe imbuing was allowed to be so ridiculously overpowered, and has barely been adjusted since its release. I realize the revamp of Shame is an attempt to overcome this problem, but making even more overpowered items is not the answer. Rather than focusing on how to adjust items in the game, I believe changing core aspects instead (i.e. skills, spells, etc) is much more important, and where the majority of the problems lie. I DO NOT want to see UO become WoW, which it seems to have been trying oh-so-hard to do these past few years.

You sorta lost me here... A reason to PvM again... there are reasons to PvM in the game currently, though obviously it doesn't take you all over the world, unless you're fishing. I'm sure by this you meant a reason to fight monsters we fought before or in areas we fought in before. As he said though, that is being dealt with, Shame is just the first step.
I know what you mean about the overpowered items, but I don't see how changing skills and spells rather than adding new items would really help give a reason to PvM.

As far as UO becoming WoW... that was one of the reasons I left 6 years ago (aside from the fact that at the time I didn't want to work for everything I had earned all over again - long story...). While they did copy a few things from WoW, I can guarantee you, my fears of UO copying WoW too much were put to rest upon my return to UO a few months ago. Mondain's Legacy looked to me to be what would kill Ultima Online once and for all... yet, the game still has quite alot of that old feel that WoW could never compete with.
WoW will always be a very linear game with no risk involved except the risk of losing time.

I'm not trying to rip into you or anything, I just think you should clarify exactly what you mean as that paragraph seemed a bit scattered with no direction, what exactly are you wanting out of PvM? I'm sure Mr. Skalaski would appreciate clarity.

 

[pgib]

I disagree with everything requested.

 

[Mirt]

Could you be more specific pgib? Do you mean the specific examples or even things like it doesn't need to be a grind?

 

[MalagAste]

By Challenging.... Please do not make Kitchen Sink Monsters for PvM.

Ok don't give them 5million HP and make it just a grind.

Giving them more HP is not the answer... also... Giving them the ability to one hit kill folk is only irritating not challenging.

Challenging monsters do the unexpected. They use tactics. They move out of the way if they are standing in a field... they dispell your summons when you summon things upon them... They slow you down, knock you from your mount... invis so you must retarget them... call for aid from others around them... Disarm you if they can... Force you to think...



As far as PvP goes until the battlefield can be more evened it's going to be whatever the flavor of the month template is... Sadly.

And you can't "lure" people to Fel with the promise of stuff... That's a proven fact.

Right now many shards have an established large Zerg/Gank group in place... making any true incentive to going to Fel a waste of time. The average person who would "want" anything that is in Fel is either a Member of that Guild or they wouldn't ever go there no matter what you put there.

Truth of the matter is most folk don't care for PvP or can't compete in the current atmosphere. What was once enjoyable is gone. A promised revamp of Factions has never happened. The only reason most join factions now is for the faction artifacts and they will advertise in General chat about paying for help in gaining the points to wear such armor.

The concept of Risk vs Reward is skewed. Most would rather take their chances at buying whatever they want rather than going to Fel to get it.

And those in Fel are more than happy to supply it. They control many things including Websites that cater to selling anything and everything UO. Turning the game from a game to a cash cow generating large volumes of cash. And do you think these folk want to see ANY change?

Of course not. And the entire basis of the new system in Shame will only add to that wealth. So the "rich" in Fel will only become Richer while those who can not compete will be left with the scraps once again. The system is flawed.

Not so long ago there was talk of a change to the currency system.... perhaps soon it might be time to think more about that.

 

[anna anomalous]

if we take anything from WOW, it needs to be the in-depth battles that occur in their boss fights.

enough of this discordance and sit semi-afk healing your dragon. the PVM fights need to have phase changes.

random disadvantages need to occur during fights. people should be required to actually think and act when engaging in a ultima online boss fight.

 

[Mirt]

Monsters using tactics could be nice. It looked like there was some of that with ter mur monsters. Raptors or the trap door spiders. Maybe more of that writ large.

 

[Woodsman]

if we take anything from WOW,

if we take anything from WOW, it's that the game needs more players.

 

[anna anomalous]

obviously? great solution offered

 

[Mirt]

More players are always good. But we shouldn't sell out our soul for it. (If your willing to sell your soul I am told WOW still allows new players) (Also I am buying souls if the price is right!)

 

[UOPlayer4LYFE]

Of course not. And the entire basis of the new system in Shame will only add to that wealth. So the "rich" in Fel will only become Richer while those who can not compete will be left with the scraps once again. The system is flawed.

Zergs will always be around..that's the nature of the game. The real problem with UO now is that PvP has become a complete numbers game where the guild with more people wins 95% of the time. This is because skill no longer plays a large role in the outcome of fights like it used to. All anyone has to do to be the best PvPer these days is make a gargoyle thrower and be able to double click. It is literally impossible to PvP largely outnumbered anymore. I remember we used to raid a zerg guild named OMEN 5 vs 20 and win. Now we can barely fight 2v3 without struggling. There just needs to be more skill involved in UO than there currently is.

 

[Woodsman]

obviously? great solution offered

WOW loses more players in 2-3 weeks than UO probably has subscribing at any one time. Start capturing those WOW players and others who get bored with the treadmill/theme park MMOs.

All you need is:
A modern client
Advertising/Support
????

 

[Vyal]

If champs would drop a item 100% of the time people would be in FEL more often. Simple yet effective way to bring more people back to fight.

 

[Plague]

I totally agree with covenantx, two handed melee weapons need to hit hard and fierce, much harder than bows, all i ever play is melee because thats what i like and it is not easy running around not even being able to damage someone unless your right next to them, and than to only hit slow and weak with a two hander even with max stamina ssi and di, melee characters just dont stand as good a chance as they used to anymore.
Im not looking for a one hit kill thats not fun, but at least bring melee back to a place where people will desire to play a melee character again, im the only melee pvper i know besides maybe a few others like lynk.

 

[aarons6]

this game is FULL of challenge..

just cause you THINK something is too easy dont make it harder for everyone else..

if your bored with pvm, limit yourself to certain builds or certain caps.
maybe try to take down a boss or mini champ with just npc armor..
or something.. STOP TRYING TO MAKE THE GAME HARDER FOR EVERYONE ELSE...

 

[pgib]

Could you be more specific pgib? Do you mean the specific examples or even things like it doesn't need to be a grind?

I'll make it short because it may take a while to fully explain.

Referring to champion spawns the poster is clearly asking for more felucca-baits. It is in the therm "non consensual" pvp the reason why that won't work: we have a p that doesn't want to be put v the other p. No matter what you insist and insist and insist to put in. Let's try to say this another time: the better loot in the new Shame WON'T WORK. Not even this time. You know, just in case someone is listening.

Balancing pvp. They made the balacing patch, they built the arenas, they built a pvp-free shard, they make pvp temp shards for holydays, they nerf skills because of pvp, they nerf items because of pvp, they don't put new pets because of pvp... and 95% of the player base don't pvp. Can't we have a little break, please?

As for pvm we could spend a book to tell how wrong he is. Let's just say that the fact that the freak of the week with a very peculiar sets of skills and equipment can kill everything shouldn't even be considered as a problem, untill all the fighters (but the same applies to crafters and their usefulness in the game) are capable of doing the same things, with the peculiarities of the set of skills they choose. If they continue leveling the big mobs looking at the template of the day things will get... well not worse than what they are because we are really at the bottom.

 

[Petra Fyde]

This thread has been pruned from the point where is ceased to be constructive feedback and became 'attack everyone who doesn't think/play as I do'. Please don't take it down that route again.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Giving people a "reason" to PvP isn't really going to be effective long-term: At most it lures more victims temporarily.

The problem is that people no longer wish to PvP (if by PvP one means Fel, which is usually what is meant). Numerous incentives to lure people into Fel have all failed, or met with at most qualified success) long-term because people no longer wish to play in this particular manner. They were given a choice, they made it.

Even when champ spawns were booming, during the early days of Publish 16 and before AoS's lack of stat loss and giving what had hitherto been PvP characters the ability to do tremendous damage in PvM, the population was still heavily skewed toward Tram.

No amount of insults from Producers (Cal's "care bears" remark) or Stratics (the Siege Forum's slogan refers to non-Siege shards as "a namby-pamby version of UO") can change the fact that most people just don't want to buy this particular product anymore.

New "reasons" won't change this either.

Now if you meant "giving people who are already PvPing something new to fight for or fight over," let me ask you if you can think of something that won't skew the game's power base any further towards that distinctly minority playstyle any more than it already is. And something that won't cause complaints from that particular community. (Despite the awesome content at the Primeval Lich Champ Spawn, for example, there were immediate complaints about the lack of a choke point and, weirdly, at the ability of players to get a warning when drifting into the SA Fel areas.)

-Galen's player

 

[curlybeard]

More players are always good. But we shouldn't sell out our soul for it. (If your willing to sell your soul I am told WOW still allows new players) (Also I am buying souls if the price is right!)

Though players will sell their soul for an item bless deed on a temporary holiday themed shard ;-)

Thanks again Supreem!

 

[Daelomin]

The current state of UO is quite good atm. The new stuff that are being introduced are generally well thought out.

I like the idea of improving the stuff we all ready got.... while new systems are introduced old ones were forgotten.

Imbuing was too powerful which made other systems suffer. Crafting and Monster loot must be improved in order to be in balance with imbuing.

PvP is quite well balanced atm, except for "Death strike", 50 damage cap for the death strike itself is too high.

Weapons are not balanced at all. A kryss can swing at max speed (every 1.25 sec) with 10 stamina and Swing speed increase 35 (35 is very easy to achieve with 30 on weapon and 5 on the ranger cloak)

Death strike dexers now run around with 10-15 stamina with same amount of mana as a mage... chaining Death strikes.

There should be an incentive to use two handed weapons. Their disadvantage of not being able to drink pots must be compensated with "some" benefit.


I also don't think that introducing some kind of rewards as an incentive to PvP is the right way to do it.

When factions were at its peak, people fought for points (a better point system that we have today) and they fought for cities and honor.
I think leader boards, improving the benefits of controlling cities etc is the right way to do it.

 

[Mirt]

Just for the record imbuing is crafting. Its just a different kind of crafting but it is skill based and requiring raw materials.

 

[UOPlayer4LYFE]

Giving people a "reason" to PvP isn't really going to be effective long-term: At most it lures more victims temporarily.

The problem is that people no longer wish to PvP (if by PvP one means Fel, which is usually what is meant). Numerous incentives to lure people into Fel have all failed, or met with at most qualified success) long-term because people no longer wish to play in this particular manner. They were given a choice, they made it.

Even when champ spawns were booming, during the early days of Publish 16 and before AoS's lack of stat loss and giving what had hitherto been PvP characters the ability to do tremendous damage in PvM, the population was still heavily skewed toward Tram.

No amount of insults from Producers (Cal's "care bears" remark) or Stratics (the Siege Forum's slogan refers to non-Siege shards as "a namby-pamby version of UO") can change the fact that most people just don't want to buy this particular product anymore.

New "reasons" won't change this either.

Now if you meant "giving people who are already PvPing something new to fight for or fight over," let me ask you if you can think of something that won't skew the game's power base any further towards that distinctly minority playstyle any more than it already is. And something that won't cause complaints from that particular community. (Despite the awesome content at the Primeval Lich Champ Spawn, for example, there were immediate complaints about the lack of a choke point and, weirdly, at the ability of players to get a warning when drifting into the SA Fel areas.)

-Galen's player

Still don't understand how you can label them as "victims". Going to fel is immediately giving consent to all forms of PvP. I also don't understand why people think PvP'ers want to "bait" people into fel. Why would I want to run around slaughtering a bunch of PvM characters? It is in no way challenging or satisfying. However, by doing so I hope that it is an incentive for that player to become better at PvP, thus making the game much more fun and challenging. If tram wasn't an option, it would force people to adapt. The reason there are so few people good at PvP is because there is no need to be good at PvP. Any trammy can farm a spawn all day long and make enough gold to buy anything that comes out of fel (which is sadly still only power scrolls). I don't want to fight a bunch of terrible players I want to create a bunch of good ones so that PvP is actually interesting again.

I am also sick and tired of PvP'ers being labeled the "minority" in UO. Have you ever been to test shard? Tc1 has one of the highest populations of all the shards and the only logical thing to do there is PvP. Just because most people who PvP don't log onto Stratics and whine about this and that all day everyday doesn't mean they don't exist. They're usually too busy playing the game rather than talking about it. Show me some real statistics proving PvP'ers are a minority in UO.

 

[Mirt]

Just so you know entering fel is not consenting to pvp. It is simply acknowledging that you can be attacked.

 

[UOPlayer4LYFE]

Just so you know entering fel is not consenting to pvp. It is simply acknowledging that you can be attacked.

You are consenting to the fact that you can be attacked. Being attacked is another phrase for PvP. You are consenting to PvP.

 

[Mirt]

Not exactly. You are acknowledging that it can happen but you can still give counts. For the most part it can add excitement unless there is a xerging issue in which case it just shuts things down.

 

[Izzy MBC]

I realised after writing this piece, it doesn't carry too much relevant to OP's post besides his first pointer, "A reason to PvP again". A short but personal rant/rambling, I felt I had to get out.

I'm completely PvM focused whenever I play. It's all I do and it's getting extremely stale in recent years (although I haven't tried to the new Shame stuff yet). I guess if I could be bothered to explore the idea of creating a new character solely for PvP, I might do. I'm not a millionaire though, so I can't afford to uber kit him out and survive - I guess joining a suitable Guild could help me get on my feet there.

Anyways, despite being completely PvM-centric, I wouldn't mind seeing:

A) Insurance removed completely
B) Fel only Ruleset

Why? Because it would...

A) Force me to remove all my awesome armour (which lets me cast 9,999,999,99+ Energy Bolts in a row without Regs and little Mana trouble) because if someone kills me, they will likely steal it.

B) Carrying on from (A), I would have to actually revert to Reagents again, which should always be a requirement (Or atleast cap LRC at 50% or something). Seriously, a Mage casting infinite spells without reagents, what the fudge man, it should NOT be possible.

C) Force me to confront other players, and as annoying as being farmed/griefed is in games, it would force me to improve my PvP skills and fight a real person with unique tactics (Not crappy mobs), and in general get my blood flowing again - because seeing Reds appear on the screen is just a "Fuuuuuu-!" moment.

D) I'll have to kit out with simpler equipment in fear of it's loss ("Carry only what you can afford to lose"), which makes PvMing "high-end" Monsters like Balrons, actually really difficult again. Hell, I might even have to ditch FC/FCR Jewellery, imagine that.

E) The loss of items, even though transferring hands, would hopefully put prices up a bit, and sink some Gold in the process, since people like me would have to purchase at least replacement GM armour and basic goods.

F) Other things I can't think of, but the above immediately makes everything radically more interesting.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I wish I started playing in 97/98 and not moments before Tram appeared. I'm a "newfag" PvM guy and I'd like the option of the old days (Yes, I supported the Classic Shard business a while back).

Feel free to poke holes in my "theory" and slap me in the face for any silly thoughts - just one slap though.

 

[UOPlayer4LYFE]

I realised after writing this piece, it doesn't carry too much relevant to OP's post besides his first pointer, "A reason to PvP again". A short but personal rant/rambling, I felt I had to get out.

I'm completely PvM focused whenever I play. It's all I do and it's getting extremely stale in recent years (although I haven't tried to the new Shame stuff yet). I guess if I could be bothered to explore the idea of creating a new character solely for PvP, I might do. I'm not a millionaire though, so I can't afford to uber kit him out and survive - I guess joining a suitable Guild could help me get on my feet there.

Anyways, despite being completely PvM-centric, I wouldn't mind seeing:

A) Insurance removed completely
B) Fel only Ruleset

Why? Because it would...

A) Force me to remove all my awesome armour (which lets me cast 9,999,999,99+ Energy Bolts in a row without Regs and little Mana trouble) because if someone kills me, they will likely steal it.

B) Carrying on from (A), I would have to actually revert to Reagents again, which should always be a requirement (Or atleast cap LRC at 50% or something). Seriously, a Mage casting infinite spells without reagents, what the fudge man, it should NOT be possible.

C) Force me to confront other players, and as annoying as being farmed/griefed is in games, it would force me to improve my PvP skills and fight a real person with unique tactics (Not crappy mobs), and in general get my blood flowing again - because seeing Reds appear on the screen is just a "Fuuuuuu-!" moment.

D) I'll have to kit out with simpler equipment in fear of it's loss ("Carry only what you can afford to lose"), which makes PvMing "high-end" Monsters like Balrons, actually really difficult again. Hell, I might even have to ditch FC/FCR Jewellery, imagine that.

E) The loss of items, even though transferring hands, would hopefully put prices up a bit, and sink some Gold in the process, since people like me would have to purchase at least replacement GM armour and basic goods.

F) Other things I can't think of, but the above immediately makes everything radically more interesting.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I wish I started playing in 97/98 and not moments before Tram appeared. I'm a "newfag" PvM guy and I'd like the option of the old days (Yes, I supported the Classic Shard business a while back).

Feel free to poke holes in my "theory" and slap me in the face for any silly thoughts - just one slap though.

Major props for going against the "Omg I have so much fun PvM'ing why would I ever PvP?" stand that most people on Stratics seem to take. I never even played before AOS came out and right away I was drawn to PvP because the PvM in UO has never been all that great. The most fun I can remember having in PvM was when Doom was huge and before they decided to split loot between everybody. It was fun trying to grab as many items as you could as soon as the monster died. Sadly this was removed due to typical whining trammies about how they can't loot fast enough, they lag, blah blah blah. To me it just seems like all the competitiveness that used to exist in UO has been continuously sucked out year after year. The point you made in C) is exactly what I wish would happen.

 

[Woodsman]

Anyways, despite being completely PvM-centric, I wouldn't mind seeing:

A) Insurance removed completely
B) Fel only Ruleset

It's already there. You already have the ability to turn off item insurance and only play in Fel. You can do this on your home shard, or play Siege where you don't even have to bother.

 

[UOPlayer4LYFE]

It's already there. You already have the ability to turn off item insurance and only play in Fel. You can do this on your home shard, or play Siege where you don't even have to bother.

Ya I'm totally going to un-insure my whole suit every time I PvP so that when I kill 50 people i get 0 suits and when I die once I lose my only suit. Brilliant argument.

 

[MalagAste]

Anyways, despite being completely PvM-centric, I wouldn't mind seeing:

A) Insurance removed completely
B) Fel only Ruleset

It's already there. You already have the ability to turn off item insurance and only play in Fel. You can do this on your home shard, or play Siege where you don't even have to bother.

^^^ this.

 

[Anonymoose]

I realised after writing this piece, it doesn't carry too much relevant to OP's post besides his first pointer, "A reason to PvP again". A short but personal rant/rambling, I felt I had to get out.

I'm completely PvM focused whenever I play. It's all I do and it's getting extremely stale in recent years (although I haven't tried to the new Shame stuff yet). I guess if I could be bothered to explore the idea of creating a new character solely for PvP, I might do. I'm not a millionaire though, so I can't afford to uber kit him out and survive - I guess joining a suitable Guild could help me get on my feet there.

Anyways, despite being completely PvM-centric, I wouldn't mind seeing:

A) Insurance removed completely
B) Fel only Ruleset

Why? Because it would...

A) Force me to remove all my awesome armour (which lets me cast 9,999,999,99+ Energy Bolts in a row without Regs and little Mana trouble) because if someone kills me, they will likely steal it.

B) Carrying on from (A), I would have to actually revert to Reagents again, which should always be a requirement (Or atleast cap LRC at 50% or something). Seriously, a Mage casting infinite spells without reagents, what the fudge man, it should NOT be possible.

C) Force me to confront other players, and as annoying as being farmed/griefed is in games, it would force me to improve my PvP skills and fight a real person with unique tactics (Not crappy mobs), and in general get my blood flowing again - because seeing Reds appear on the screen is just a "Fuuuuuu-!" moment.

D) I'll have to kit out with simpler equipment in fear of it's loss ("Carry only what you can afford to lose"), which makes PvMing "high-end" Monsters like Balrons, actually really difficult again. Hell, I might even have to ditch FC/FCR Jewellery, imagine that.

E) The loss of items, even though transferring hands, would hopefully put prices up a bit, and sink some Gold in the process, since people like me would have to purchase at least replacement GM armour and basic goods.

F) Other things I can't think of, but the above immediately makes everything radically more interesting.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I wish I started playing in 97/98 and not moments before Tram appeared. I'm a "newfag" PvM guy and I'd like the option of the old days (Yes, I supported the Classic Shard business a while back).

Feel free to poke holes in my "theory" and slap me in the face for any silly thoughts - just one slap though.

Major props for going against the "Omg I have so much fun PvM'ing why would I ever PvP?" stand that most people on Stratics seem to take. I never even played before AOS came out and right away I was drawn to PvP because the PvM in UO has never been all that great. The most fun I can remember having in PvM was when Doom was huge and before they decided to split loot between everybody. It was fun trying to grab as many items as you could as soon as the monster died. Sadly this was removed due to typical whining trammies about how they can't loot fast enough, they lag, blah blah blah. To me it just seems like all the competitiveness that used to exist in UO has been continuously sucked out year after year. The point you made in C) is exactly what I wish would happen.

Agreed. People on these forums mistakenly think their opinions reflect that of the majority of the people who play UO. Unfortunately, the avid forum-goer is usually the one who Devs listen to, and so their opinions are usually the only ones heard. This is likely why pvp changes constantly fail - the Devs think they are giving players what they need, but in reality are listening to people who have likely never particiapated in "consensual" pvp.

Regarding other posts, I can sum up why both pvm and pvp are broken in one word: Balancing. Its something the Dev teams just cannot seem to grasp. This is largely due to their tendency to make sweeping overhauls instead of simply fixing what is broken. When you change so much at once, it is infinity harder to assess how one change impacted play and will undoubtedly lead to all kinds of unforeseen effects. This is common sense 101. This is also why the Devs then spend the next batch of their time fixing their fixes.

No, it's not just about "Fel-bait". It's about making pvp more than just the crap you find at Yew Gate. And thats only if you choose to call blues in guard zone or people house-hiding "pvp". It's about making pvp more appealing and, dare I say, fun for more people by adding different dimensions. Call it "Fel-bait" or "non-consensual" if you want, but a lot of people find pvp more exciting when there's something at stake.

 

[RawHeadRex]

PVP lessions some way some how would be cool if implemented into the game... like a complete beginner would be able to take baby steps in pvp and work their way up as they learn. Like a mage training dummy with different levels of skill.

Macro keys would need to be taught showing what would be most effective as far as keys in relation to hand placement. For example right hand would control mouse and left hand would work left home keys and keys above and below left home keys. Then gradually work up from there as far as adding macro keys.

I truely think people would appreciate pvp for how much fun it is if basic fundamentals were shown.

 

[Woodsman]

Ya I'm totally going to un-insure my whole suit every time I PvP so that when I kill 50 people i get 0 suits and when I die once I lose my only suit. Brilliant argument.

The person I was talking to was referring to things that can be accomplished right now. Siege/Mugen.

 

[UOPlayer4LYFE]

PVP lessions some way some how would be cool if implemented into the game... like a complete beginner would be able to take baby steps in pvp and work their way up as they learn. Like a mage training dummy with different levels of skill.

Macro keys would need to be taught showing what would be most effective as far as keys in relation to hand placement. For example right hand would control mouse and left hand would work left home keys and keys above and below left home keys. Then gradually work up from there as far as adding macro keys.

I truely think people would appreciate pvp for how much fun it is if basic fundamentals were shown.

Or they could use their brain and do something on their own for a change.

 

[Izzy MBC]

The person I was talking to was referring to things that can be accomplished right now. Siege/Mugen.

I can't quite articulate why I haven't properly tried Siege, I guess I don't really know myself. Day off work tomorrow, maybe I should give it another try.

Perhaps the thing that puts me off is starting with a new character all over again, I haven't even maxed out my main on Europa... after how long now?!

Your point is taken though!

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Going to fel is immediately giving consent to all forms of PvP.

Then why do people say continually how there's all these "regular people" in Fel who aren't specifically there to PvP?

Why would I want to run around slaughtering a bunch of PvM characters?

The answer your people have historically given for doing such things is that it's fun to do so.

Case in point was the early EM events, frequently, I hear, held in Fel to help accommodate the EM-controlled villains (which it seems they thank God fixed eventually). Lots of laughing and joking about killing "stupid trammies" who didn't even know to insure their items!

Funny though how these items were oft-insured before they got to Fel.

I am also sick and tired of PvP'ers being labeled the "minority" in UO. Have you ever been to test shard? Tc1 has one of the highest populations of all the shards and the only logical thing to do there is PvP. Just because most people who PvP don't log onto Stratics and whine about this and that all day everyday doesn't mean they don't exist. They're usually too busy playing the game rather than talking about it. Show me some real statistics proving PvP'ers are a minority in UO.

This has got to be the worst way to determine who the minority of players in UO are.

The 2nd worst was guild size, which is also the only other way I've heard PvPers defined as a majority in the game. But this only defined the necessity to run in packs and the inability to do things as spontaneous groups rather than planned groups.

If more people PvPed, you wouldn't be here asking for incentives to do it.

The team wouldn't have had to keep finding different incentives going back to Khaldun and going through the Primeval Lich.

*shrugs*

-Galen's player

 

[UOPlayer4LYFE]

Then why do people say continually how there's all these "regular people" in Fel who aren't specifically there to PvP?



The answer your people have historically given for doing such things is that it's fun to do so.

Case in point was the early EM events, frequently, I hear, held in Fel to help accommodate the EM-controlled villains (which it seems they thank God fixed eventually). Lots of laughing and joking about killing "stupid trammies" who didn't even know to insure their items!

Funny though how these items were oft-insured before they got to Fel.


This has got to be the worst way to determine who the minority of players in UO are.

The 2nd worst was guild size, which is also the only other way I've heard PvPers defined as a majority in the game. But this only defined the necessity to run in packs and the inability to do things as spontaneous groups rather than planned groups.

If more people PvPed, you wouldn't be here asking for incentives to do it.

The team wouldn't have had to keep finding different incentives going back to Khaldun and going through the Primeval Lich.

*shrugs*

-Galen's player

Did you just refer to PvP'ers as "your people"? Nowhere in my post did I attempt to determine who the minority of players are in UO. Reading comprehension good skill have.

 

[Shiznit Bo'Bourbon]

A) Insurance removed completely
B) Fel only Ruleset

C) UO shuts down within three months.

Go make a character on Siege with the other five or six people that actually bother to play there.

 

[NuSair]

If champs would drop a item 100% of the time people would be in FEL more often. Simple yet effective way to bring more people back to fight.

No, it wouldn't.

Even though on Atlantic I can solo most spawns and not get raided these days, people still refuse on general principle to go to fel. They'd rather farm X in tram, sell it, then spend X mil on the 120 they need rather than try for the drop from a spawn. They HATE PvP that much. Even just the threat of PvP is enough to keep them out.

The only thing making the drop rate 100% would do is make it where the people already in fel fight over it a little more and flood the market with items.

 

[UOPlayer4LYFE]

No, it wouldn't.

Even though on Atlantic I can solo most spawns and not get raided these days, people still refuse on general principle to go to fel. They'd rather farm X in tram, sell it, then spend X mil on the 120 they need rather than try for the drop from a spawn. They HATE PvP that much. Even just the threat of PvP is enough to keep them out.

The only thing making the drop rate 100% would do is make it where the people already in fel fight over it a little more and flood the market with items.

I don't think it's that they hate PvP. They hate not being spoon fed and actually having to work toward something.

 

[NuSair]

If tram wasn't an option, it would force people to adapt. The reason there are so few people good at PvP is because there is no need to be good at PvP. Any trammy can farm a spawn all day long and make enough gold to buy anything that comes out of fel (which is sadly still only power scrolls). I don't want to fight a bunch of terrible players I want to create a bunch of good ones so that PvP is actually interesting again.

I am also sick and tired of PvP'ers being labeled the "minority" in UO. Have you ever been to test shard? Tc1 has one of the highest populations of all the shards and the only logical thing to do there is PvP. Just because most people who PvP don't log onto Stratics and whine about this and that all day everyday doesn't mean they don't exist. They're usually too busy playing the game rather than talking about it. Show me some real statistics proving PvP'ers are a minority in UO.

Not sure about 'real' statics. And not really sure how you'd prove it. Cal once stated a percentage of players that PvP, but not sure how that could be accurate. I spent several hours a day in fel and don't PvP.

If tram wasn't an option, chances are UO wouldn't be here today. 10s of thousands of accounts were closed purely because of non-consensual PvP. That is from a designer. Barring some other solution where people were protected from random dude 101 attacking them, most people don't want that. Sorry, that is just a simple fact.

 

[Izzy MBC]

C) UO shuts down within three months.

Go make a character on Siege with the other five or six people that actually bother to play there.

I think I will, thank you for your kind suggestion. I hope you are exaggurating the population count though, indeedy doody.

 

[NuSair]

I don't think it's that they hate PvP. They hate not being spoon fed and actually having to work toward something.

heh, nah, they HATE pvp with a passion. Well, I shouldn't try and reference them all. But, I can speak for all the people that I've been in guilds with since the start of trammel.

More often than not- it's a list that includes- I work x hours a week, why do I want the stress of being randomly attacked. Why do I want to work on something for an hour only to have someone come up and take it, when I can spend an hour else where and profit. Scripting (from what I see and hear, it's just as bad now as it was before the bannings) - client hacks.

It has nothing to do with work. It has to do with you can put hours of effort into something and have someone run up and take it. Most people don't want or need that stress, real life is stressful enough and they don't want to deal with it.

That is from years of being in various guilds, from traveling all over the US in various capacities and talking to old UO players in MMO panels at conventions.

And tbh, most of the ones that I talk to that love pvp play on those shards that we aren't allowed to talk about here.

 

[Anonymoose]

If more people PvPed, you wouldn't be here asking for incentives to do it.

The team wouldn't have had to keep finding different incentives going back to Khaldun and going through the Primeval Lich.

*shrugs*

-Galen's player

You're missing the point. There ARE the people to pvp and I also think they are less a minority than people would think. The facts that cloud this are (A) people get fed up with lousy balancing efforts and (B) there's just too much space in this game. Too many shards, too many facets. It's time to acknowledge that it is not 2003 anymore and the population is a fraction of what it once was. If you combine (1) updated incentives to go out in Fel (2) educated balancing efforts and (3) some shard consolidation, I guarantee pvp would be amazing again.

 

[CovenantX]

this game is FULL of challenge..

just cause you THINK something is too easy dont make it harder for everyone else..

if your bored with pvm, limit yourself to certain builds or certain caps.
maybe try to take down a boss or mini champ with just npc armor..
or something.. STOP TRYING TO MAKE THE GAME HARDER FOR EVERYONE ELSE...

well one thing that's important (I think so anyway) is to not get Rid of the solo-able content, but add things that are just not solo-able,

make "new bosses" with like like say 60-80k MAX hp, some special abilities that would make it nearly impossible and require a set number of people to fight it.

As of now, there are NO group-premoting fights, for pvm, except maybe a harrower, (the only reason it might take a group is for pvp reasons).

Personally, for current peerlesses & bosses, I would prefer to do them solo just because its easy and the drop rate is so low, and itss Dreadfully boring to get eggs for medusa, I would like to get the "rare drop" for myself (<- sounds greedy, I know)

 

[NuSair]

Hate to point it out, but Medusa doesn't work that way.