Fish Monger Quests and their Design consequences....

[popps]

We have been given Fish Monger Quests and they are cool for all those who like fishing.

We even have seen them further expanded with the latest patch with cool and usefull new rewards.

All is nice and all is great then ?

Well, sort of.........

They have been a very nice addition to fishing and made fishing in the game richer and more interesting. We even got fishing powerscrolls!!

So what is the problem then ? What are these "design consequences" ?

Well, the way Fish Monger Quests have been designed they are very intensive in the fish that is needed. Meaning, that the fisherman has to fish a lot.

That's a good thing if it was not for some fishing "byproducts" which, unfortunately, still cannot stack. I am talking, for example, of Messages in a Bottle, Fishing Nets, Treasure Maps which can soon become a burden to find room for.

How about making them stackable to make life easier to fishermen ? For the Treasure Maps, they could be arranged with a special Book like for Bulk Order Deeds which could hold, say, 500 Treasure Maps and only count for, say, 5 items.....

This could allow a fisherman to fish at will without worrying about the consequences and burden to one's own storage !!

Now, some will perhaps at this point suggest, if one does not have room to store them, to either discard them or sell them or give them away. Why instead shouldn't a fisherman be allowed to stock them up for the future and for whenever they may want to pause fishing and, for example, take up treasure hunting of do SoSes ??

Why sell them or give them away or, worse, discard them, when the fishermen could keep them if only the Developers allowed them for better and easier storage ??

Just a thought........

 

[unified]

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Give it a rest.

Little should be stackable in UO. Regs maybe.

Scripter: FISH FOREVER cause it all stacks.


Argh. Pops.

You summed it up well. THE FISHERMAN HAS to fish. So fish. Throw out junk. Set up a vendor, sell your SOS's. Do something.

I fail to see the need for any mechanic changes. If you and others would use what is available inlcuding the trashcan. UO would be more fun.

SELL THE MAPS.

as so it begins

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Now, some will perhaps at this point suggest, if one does not have room to store them, to either discard them or sell them or give them away. Why instead shouldn't a fisherman be allowed to stock them up for the future and for whenever they may want to pause fishing and, for example, take up treasure hunting of do SoSes ??

No. Because it is silly. Your point is you get so many. Do you really need to save a bizzillion nothings for a possible time when you might want to do SOS.

NO... when you decide to do SOS you can fish a bit, get the maps then, and go do them. Or save 20 in your house for emergency urges.

Argh.

 

[Fishy McHook]

if u want to hoard then get new acc with a hose on it if not quit cry,n

 

[LordDrago]

I could write a longer response, or just say: please refer to posts 2 through 5.

 

[Flutter]

lololol Really?

 

[DenAlton036]

He makes good points, I like the t map book idea, which has been mentioned before.

 

[Theophania]

He makes good points, I like the t map book idea, which has been mentioned before.

I agree. this could be very useful.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

He makes good points, I like the t map book idea, which has been mentioned before.

Yes AWESOM idea, because when the books are full of treasure maps....

Maybe would could have A BOOK of TREASURE MAP BOOKS.

The Book of treasure map or sos books would hold 25 plain treasure map books. You get the idea.


AND THEN we could have A BOOK of BOOKs of TREASURE MAP BOOKS.

Because the guy that aint fishing up the TMAPS or SOS will really fish up 6100 of them at some point in the future.

BLAH sell them.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

Maybe would could have A BOOK of TREASURE MAP BOOKS.

LOL
If it's not a 'grind', you're on Test. Isn't 120's the reason GM=worthless?

 

[Flutter]

Yes AWESOM idea, because when the books are full of treasure maps....

Maybe would could have A BOOK of TREASURE MAP BOOKS.

The Book of treasure map or sos books would hold 25 plain treasure map books. You get the idea.


AND THEN we could have A BOOK of BOOKs of TREASURE MAP BOOKS.

Because the guy that aint fishing up the TMAPS or SOS will really fish up 6100 of them at some point in the future.

BLAH sell them.

 

[Basara]

Raven:

So, the Wizard and Time Bandit should stop fishing and return to port when they get 125 crabs, instead of the thousands their hold was built to handle the weight for?

I could write a longer post, but it's easier to say that posts 2-6 are based on personal bias, not anything to do with the game. A broken clock is usually right twice a day, folks.

Now, the T-maps are a bit of an issue. Frankly I think if you made maps stackable it should only be ones not decoded.

But, the MiBs should stack - their contents aren't determined until they open, so whether one is an ASOS is part of the creation of the SOS from cracking open the bottle. SOS should not stack, though.

Similarly, there's no reason for the green nets not to stack. After all, they work like bandages, to an extent (click, target, wait for effect to kick in). There's no harm in making them stackable.

Item count will NEVER come into play for a GM fisher, only weight. There's only 56 base "uncommon" fish types, and 14 are crustaceans you have to trap, and 12 you aren't gonna be on your boat when you get them. A person fishing only from a boat, that is high enough level to not get the "a fish", would only have the chance of getting
A. 18 deepwater fish types
B. 12 Shallow Fish types
C. 4 small fish types (that don't stack, and NEED to be stackable)
D. delicate scales (that do stack)
E. the two base "Big Fish types"
F. whatever rare fish are native to the shard's seas.

NO WHERE will it occur that a person hits item count before they hit weight, from the fish being 10 stone each, and UOAssist not working, last I checked, to move the new fish to the decks.

Persons that are scripting 1000s of fish are ALREADY using ILLEGAL software, and fixing some of the oversights in the fishing design won't somehow enable them more. IT will, however, encourage more people to use fishing legally, that WON'T FISH AT ALL presently, due to the hassle.

Trying to argue against making the game more uniform and streamlined for the common player, using the cheaters as an example, is like saying that you want to curb speeding by people that won't follow the posted limits under any circumstances, by reducing the speed limit for those that DO follow the posted limit.

 

[popps]

Yes AWESOM idea, because when the books are full of treasure maps....

Maybe would could have A BOOK of TREASURE MAP BOOKS.

For how many years now, have we had Bulk Order Deeds Books ?

And how many Bulk Order Deeds are in circulation on each shard ?

My take is far, but FAR more than whatever Treasure Maps there may be on that same shard.

Now, do we have Books to hold Bulk Order Deeds Books ? No we don't.

Since there is fewer treasure Maps than there are Bulk Order Deeds, if the problem does not exist for Bulk Order Deeds Books I do not see how it could exist for Treasure Maps Books.....

Treasure Maps are used for training of the skill and quite many are needed.

Being able to just hunt them and drop them into a Book for better storage would allow the player to store them as they play to then later, when they have a number high enough, decode them for training the skill and then dig them up.

I am not sure how much coding work it would take, but I suspect that the Bulk Order Deeds Books code could be used to some extent to lessen the coding work necessary to tailor it to host Treasure Maps, instead.

And it would be a nice new addition to help players out in their storage needs.

 

[Flutter]

For how many years now, have we had Bulk Order Deeds Books ?

And how many Bulk Order Deeds are in circulation on each shard ?

My take is far, but FAR more than whatever Treasure Maps there may be on that same shard.

Now, do we have Books to hold Bulk Order Deeds Books ? No we don't.

Here is a picture of my bod book holding vendors (it's legal don't start trying to say it's not). Each vendor here has max item count holding bod books filled with bods. Note the bod books on the ground that don't fit on the vendors.
I could use a bulk order deed book for my bulk order deed books. There are a HELL of a lot more bods in the game than treasure maps I assure you LOL

 

[Aurelius]

Why sell them or give them away or, worse, discard them, when the fishermen could keep them if only the Developers allowed them for better and easier storage ??

Just a thought........

Because, like reality, you do not have any justification for claiming infinite space created for you to packrat every item that comes your way into storage, forever?

You get to make a decision - do I keep this or not. You seem to be thinking that you don't even want to make that tiny a decision, but rather that people should give you a way around having to choose. Best way I can describe that is, I'm afraid, 'childish'. Make decisions what to keep, and live with them, the consequences are trivial - a pretend map on a pretend character in a pretend world................

 

[popps]

There are a HELL of a lot more bods in the game than treasure maps I assure you LOL

I do not doubt that at all, considering that Bulk Order Deeds can be very easily scripted and have been scripted for years now.......... Scripting Treasure Maps is quite more difficult.

 

[popps]

Because, like reality, you do not have any justification for claiming infinite space created for you to packrat every item that comes your way into storage, forever?

You get to make a decision - do I keep this or not. You seem to be thinking that you don't even want to make that tiny a decision, but rather that people should give you a way around having to choose. Best way I can describe that is, I'm afraid, 'childish'. Make decisions what to keep, and live with them, the consequences are trivial - a pretend map on a pretend character in a pretend world................

I must disagree.

I mean, in the game we DO have already, for example, BOD Books, or Rune Books.

Why make it easier for BOD scripters (or VERY intensive BOD collectors...) or Rune Libraries and not, for example, for Treasure Hunters who may have a similar need ?

I mean, either your arguments holds true for ALL activities in the game, and then NONE is favoured, OR, and this is MY argument, ALL activities in the game that need enhanced storage are to be helped, sooner or later.

Since it has been now a LONG time since we last saw BOD Books or even Rune Books, I say time is due again to introduce into Ultima Online another space saving container.

A book to hold Treasure Maps seems to be a very good candidate, but I could mention also others.........

 

[Aurelius]

Why make it easier for BOD scripters (or VERY intensive BOD collectors...) or Rune Libraries and not, for example, for Treasure Hunters who may have a similar need ?

An absolute nonsense of an argument, because you think someone else has it easier then everyone who wants to should have it easier.

There is no equivalence of need in BODs , rune libraries or TMaps. A rune library is as complete as you want it to be, for convenience. There is no 'need' to make a huge one unless you actually want to do so. BODS there is at least to some degree a 'need' to collect many in order to have the componemts needed for the higher end, multi-part BODS. TMaps you can do as and when you choose, the results are not affected by your choice of when to do them and they do not need to 'combine' to get a higher level reward.

I mean, either your arguments holds true for ALL activities in the game, and then NONE is favoured, OR, and this is MY argument, ALL activities in the game that need enhanced storage are to be helped, sooner or later.

Again, nonsense. Nobody suggested it hold true for 'ALL activities' (with the bizarre implication that fighters be able to line up neat queues of opponents to kill in sequence, and thus should get a 'monster book' to store up what they prefer killing until it suits them to have a mass slaughtering session), and you immediately roll back on that to make it 'ALL activities that need enhanced storage" without actually explaining, defining or supporting this 'need' - because what you actually mean is not 'need', it is 'I want', which is a very different concept indeed.

You want yet more convenience for you, and have decided this must be right because there are some other convenient storage methods for other people so you are therefore entitled to a similar consideration. How, precisely, do you intend using this marvellous 'book' of tmaps? Wait until it is full and then do a hundred or so at once? Unlikely, since that would take up several days of your limited playing time. Is your storage capacity so limited you can't wait until you have maybe a dozen or so maps and do them in a batch? If so, you don't appear to need any more storage tools. Or do you just not want to part with those maps, and feel some need to hang onto them for some undefined time in the future where you might actually get round to doing them all.... which seems, from what you have said on this and many other topics in the past, a far more likely outcome.

The real thing needed is for people to look what they have, really think why they are hanging on to it, and if they are not going to use it then sell it or throw it away. Not to get yet another tool to allow even more huge amounts of unneeded, unwanted crap to be stored away in the vague hope that one day, it just might, possibly be useful. Learn how to let stuff go......

 

[popps]

Again, nonsense. Nobody suggested it hold true for 'ALL activities' (with the bizarre implication that fighters be able to line up neat queues of opponents to kill in sequence, and thus should get a 'monster book' to store up what they prefer killing until it suits them to have a mass slaughtering session), and you immediately roll back on that to make it 'ALL activities that need enhanced storage" without actually explaining, defining or supporting this 'need' - because what you actually mean is not 'need', it is 'I want', which is a very different concept indeed.

Actually, in defense of fighters, I do favour also Amor/Weapons Armoires and Jewellery cases...

That is, special containers where fighters could store all of their armor, weapons and magic jewels so to reduce their item count........ Sort of like BOD books work for BODs but instead with armor, weapons or jewels in them.......

You want yet more convenience for you, and have decided this must be right because there are some other convenient storage methods for other people so you are therefore entitled to a similar consideration.

I want more convenience for ALL players, be them treasure hunters, fishermen, warriors, whatever. I do not see why some activities might be more helped than others....

How, precisely, do you intend using this marvellous 'book' of tmaps? Wait until it is full and then do a hundred or so at once?

Why not ?
Not all player play the same, some may play little here and little there while others might play in "waves", like intensively do hunting, then intensively do some treasure digging, then intensively do some BODs etc.

Why can't the game have tools to cater as many players' styles as possible ?

A game offering more will be more welcoming to different players and so, I see this as a good thing for the game.

Besides, would it really be much coding work to "adjust" BOD books to be capable of hosting Treasure Maps, instead ?

I mean, if it CAN be done, and the effort it takes is not prohibitive, AND it can ADD something to the game which players can see favourably, then WHY NOT ?

 

[Aurelius]

Why can't the game have tools to cater as many players' styles as possible ?

It already does. What you constantly want is more and more 'easier' ways.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Raven:

So, the Wizard and Time Bandit should stop fishing and return to port when they get 125 crabs, instead of the thousands their hold was built to handle the weight for?

I could write a longer post, but it's easier to say that posts 2-6 are based on personal bias, not anything to do with the game. A broken clock is usually right twice a day, folks.

Now, the T-maps are a bit of an issue. Frankly I think if you made maps stackable it should only be ones not decoded.

But, the MiBs should stack - their contents aren't determined until they open, so whether one is an ASOS is part of the creation of the SOS from cracking open the bottle. SOS should not stack, though.

Similarly, there's no reason for the green nets not to stack. After all, they work like bandages, to an extent (click, target, wait for effect to kick in). There's no harm in making them stackable.

Item count will NEVER come into play for a GM fisher, only weight. There's only 56 base "uncommon" fish types, and 14 are crustaceans you have to trap, and 12 you aren't gonna be on your boat when you get them. A person fishing only from a boat, that is high enough level to not get the "a fish", would only have the chance of getting
A. 18 deepwater fish types
B. 12 Shallow Fish types
C. 4 small fish types (that don't stack, and NEED to be stackable)
D. delicate scales (that do stack)
E. the two base "Big Fish types"
F. whatever rare fish are native to the shard's seas.

NO WHERE will it occur that a person hits item count before they hit weight, from the fish being 10 stone each, and UOAssist not working, last I checked, to move the new fish to the decks.

Persons that are scripting 1000s of fish are ALREADY using ILLEGAL software, and fixing some of the oversights in the fishing design won't somehow enable them more. IT will, however, encourage more people to use fishing legally, that WON'T FISH AT ALL presently, due to the hassle.

Trying to argue against making the game more uniform and streamlined for the common player, using the cheaters as an example, is like saying that you want to curb speeding by people that won't follow the posted limits under any circumstances, by reducing the speed limit for those that DO follow the posted limit.

Yes when you get 125 you go back to port. Ever watch Dangerous Catch. They have to go to port. They also cant hold them forever or the crabs die.

Better GAME ADDITION add a fishing boat. A boat that holds more fish/weight. A boat that you could charge/hang with green fishing nets. Stackable - BLAH boring simple and uncreative.



You have fish that don't ever die. You dont have to maintain them. The new boat should have an airation tank.

So sorry yes. You fish. You got take care of them. Who says a game should be made easy to keep everything. Make choices.

Same with T maps and SOS... you know why? The are self contained. You don't need them to be matched with something else. BODS have to be held to be matched and made into something. You need a book for them because the game requires you to get large orders and find small orders.

The TMAPS and SOS stand alone. They dont need to be in a book.

And its not uniformed and streamline. Though I agree weight might be a problem. It is shear laziness. No one wants to do anything in this game but collect rewards.

Sorry. Why not just make everything go to your bank box or MAGIC 15 anniversary HOUSE BOX... it could all stack there.

I wish TAILORS WOULD get a shoe box. I want to keep all my fish up sandals but I can't they dont stack.

I hope they become valuable turn in items for spring cleaning...

 

[Lost_One]

Lost One be thinkin dat whatever Popps suggests sum peeples on ere be disagreein wid him, no matter whats. he be making da good points and dis be one orcs dat agreein wid him.

 

[Basara]

Yes when you get 125 you go back to port. Ever watch Dangerous Catch. They have to go to port. They also cant hold them forever or the crabs die.

I was watching it as I typed it. They get 125 in just 3 traps sometimes, and their hauls are measured in thousands of crabs; tons of them. And, they stay out for a couple weeks at a time.

Your suggestion is simply to make all fishing quests impossible to fill.

It can take several UO days to get enough of one specific fish for a 1-line fish quest if you start with 0. It can take several real life days to get all the fish for a multi-line fish (the equivalent of a month in-game), and I have 1 quest on board my ship currently that the rarity of the fish for it means that it's been close to a YEAR of UO days since I got it, 2 months ago, and STILL haven't caught enough fish of two types for it.

You arguments are NOT based on any knowledge or experience as a fisher in the game - only on dislike of certain people that you feel compelled to play devil's advocate to, even when to do so puts you in an indefensible position. You need help....

 

[yanaki2]

to be honest yes there is far greater the amount of bods then there ever will be of tmaps or sos's that is true, but they are apples to oranges. i had at last count 7500+ smithing and 6800+ tailoring bods, nicely kept in one of my keeps in there books. i also have corrently over 4000 sos's and 220 anchient sos's left to fish up that take a large number of lockdowns at one castle, and 5422 at last count various treasure maps at a second castle taking up the majority of lockowns there.if you dont beleive me ill lock them down for you to look at.. so yes i would love to see a tmap book and a sos book added to the game. it would just make them easier to deal with.


ohh and if there is actually anyone out there that doesnt want there sos's,tmaps and nets just let me know ill happily take them off your hand no matter what shard there on

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

I was watching it as I typed it. They get 125 in just 3 traps sometimes, and their hauls are measured in thousands of crabs; tons of them. And, they stay out for a couple weeks at a time.

Your suggestion is simply to make all fishing quests impossible to fill.

It can take several UO days to get enough of one specific fish for a 1-line fish quest if you start with 0. It can take several real life days to get all the fish for a multi-line fish (the equivalent of a month in-game), and I have 1 quest on board my ship currently that the rarity of the fish for it means that it's been close to a YEAR of UO days since I got it, 2 months ago, and STILL haven't caught enough fish of two types for it.

You arguments are NOT based on any knowledge or experience as a fisher in the game - only on dislike of certain people that you feel compelled to play devil's advocate to, even when to do so puts you in an indefensible position. You need help....

I fish and fill.
It isnt impossible.
I also buy fish from brokers.

And somebody is filling them just fine becasue I am buying items off vendors, Lava hooks, Dredging hooks. It is working for at least 1 players. Hard to believe you are having so much trouble.

Dont be so limited in vision. The game has many routes to 1 avenue.


You can not fish. And do other things and collect gold and trade for fishing items.

You can fish. And collect fish yourself.

You can fish. Swap fish. Buy fish. Etc etc.


My position is well defended. The game shouldn't be based on 1 need. It is already candied down and harmed from it.

Work and get rewarded. Besides by the time you reply to this...

All the new fishing items are turning up dirt cheap. See my point. Everyone wants ease and speed to get new items. In 7 days, they are almost free on vendors.

Think about that. In two weeks... nothing will be rare or novel in this fishing world and people will complain.

Raven

 

[Merus]

At this point I would be happy with a trash can on my boat to discard what I don't want... Or if you prefer a more creative solution, how about a tillerman option to swab the deck which would trash everything not in the hold.

Another nice addition would be to allow containers inside the hold to function like containers inside a secure, i.e. let them exceed the 400 stone weight limit. I would love to orgainze the fish in my hold, but as is a container can't hold more than 40 fish. =(

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

At this point I would be happy with a trash can on my boat to discard what I don't want... Or if you prefer a more creative solution, how about a tillerman option to swab the deck which would trash everything not in the hold.

Another nice addition would be to allow containers inside the hold to function like containers inside a secure, i.e. let them exceed the 400 stone weight limit. I would love to orgainze the fish in my hold, but as is a container can't hold more than 40 fish. =(

Im for a fishing rig ship. With just that container.