Capture the Fort (PvP) - discussion thread

[EMSeppo]

Greetings! We have had the first "Capture the Fort" event earlier this month. I believe it went quite well and based on the feedback we have received thus far, everyone enjoyed it. As you all know, the plan is to have this as approximately a monthly PvP event on Baja.

As we move forward, it would be desirable to change few things along the way. We are open to suggestions related to:

1) Addition of features to the garrison area,
and

2) Changes to the event mechanism

Addition of features to the garrison area

Current list of features:
1) Teleportation out to the T2A side of Minoc entrance from the large tower
2) Password based entry into the garrison area from the gate
3) Access to the Large Tower for the members of the winning team
4) Access to containers within the Large Tower for supplies
5) One forge and Anvil within the garrison area

We are open towards adding more features to the garrison area. However, keep in mind that T2A is a busy area for champion spawns. We do not plan on adding features that would give a critical advantage towards champion spawns to the winning team. So, we are unlikely to add ability to bank or log out within the garrison area.


Changes to the event mechanism
There is always room for changes. However, at this stage, we are not in favor of any major changes to the existing system. I think it is a pretty strong framework to build upon, but the basics will probably not change. Never say never though, so feel free to suggest any ideas you might have.

Please, stick to the above two points in here.

BTW, the next Capture the Fort event will take place the weekend of January 15th, 2011. So, get ready! Recruit people, build alliances, what not!

 

[ShockerBleedsKR]

okay, so i was not available for the event tonight, i wish i had been. A good idea to get people to enjoy this style of pvp, is to set only 1 tower in the area that people field to guard, and another on the other side of the map, so there would be 2 places to defend at all times. Because if not everyone is funneled into one tunnel and its really who ever has the most mages out there to keep fields up win. Blues have an advantage because they can get right back out there after they die.

Just a thought.....

 

[MasterP]

okay, so i was not available for the event tonight, i wish i had been. A good idea to get people to enjoy this style of pvp, is to set only 1 tower in the area that people field to guard, and another on the other side of the map, so there would be 2 places to defend at all times. Because if not everyone is funneled into one tunnel and its really who ever has the most mages out there to keep fields up win. Blues have an advantage because they can get right back out there after they die.

Just a thought.....

You my friend are wrong. A fight like this comes down to who has the best #1 xhealers #2 fields #3 target caller. If you take out the larger number's shoot caller then the group is weakened...If you take out there weaker members then they dont have as many fielders/xhealers. It comes down to leadership and skills.

 

[EMSeppo]

So far the numbers have been the main issue. Only Cartel seems to have managed to get their members online for both of the events. It was not so bad in the first one. I think K^R was making good gains till they managed to get themselves sandwiched between SI and Cartel. However, it was something like 3 vs. 10 in second one. Props to Aden [SI] for putting up a one man stand till he got some support. It is nice to see people showing up just for the PvP, regardless of potential for victory or reward. It brings up fond memories of a friend from back in my own PvP days.

Other guilds have to plan things in advance, and put up a more serious effort. If a time and day is not good for your guild, I can work with it if you let me know in advance. For future fights, we can even do a discussion on here so that it is a time that works for most people.

As I said, I am willing to change things and take suggestions. However, I am not convinced that multiple flag locations will make any kind of significant improvement. Having your guild online in full force with a good plan is going to make the biggest difference. Just watching Aden, I noticed potential for several strategies that could work quite well given enough support and proper execution. However, as always, a team that has a balance of templates and utilizes it properly will always have an edge.

I am still looking for suggestions to add more solid features to the garrison to make it a more attractive target. Still not considering giving item rewards though. Also, I am under the impression that people who have participated so far have mostly enjoyed the event. If this is not true, then please let me know. I don't want to have a situation where we continue with a format because we think the PvPers are enjoying it, whereas some of you guys feel obliged to show up because you don't want to let us down.

 

[ToniFierce]

Other guilds have to plan things in advance, and put up a more serious effort. If a time and day is not good for your guild, I can work with it if you let me know in advance. For future fights, we can even do a discussion on here so that it is a time that works for most people.

Primetime on a Friday night would be great for us

 

[SuperKen]

I will play for internets. Not concerned with anything else.

If you want SI to come out in force, there's going to have to be a more attractive prize. Just my honest opinion.

I disagree with Shocker; he would say anything that means he can play his stealthing archer all day long since he lacks the ability to see the field like a mage can. It's not like he doesn't have a perfectly fine blue Mystic Mage to use; he just refuses to and knows he has a better shot at "PvP" when it comes bundled with smoke bombs and ninjitsu to form away.

More stealth archers is not PvP.

 

[WarderDragon]

Mm.

When can we expect the next event?

 

[EMSeppo]

April!

 

[SuperKen]

Did you forget about this month or just wanted more time to prepare for April's?

We noticed it had gone missing but figured you were busy with something or another.

 

[EMSeppo]

Aye - have a big deadline for March 31st which is keeping me busy this month. But, after that no more edumacation. Hooray?

 

[SuperKen]

Good luck Elder EM Seppo! Keep up the hard work!

 

[WarderDragon]

...have a big deadline for March 31st which is keeping me busy this month.

Mm.

I understand the Magincian War concludes before the end of March.

How will this impact the Global Arc on Baja?

 

[EMSeppo]

All global events will happen on Baja when they are supposed to as they always have.

Also, EM Crysania will be around and has promised to pick up my slack for the month. I know it is going to be exciting few weeks and I would love to spend time to spin some fun Baja specific stories related to the struggle against Bane. Unfortunately, on my part, I cannot promise such things this month. I will try my best and that is one of the reasons I have postponed the capture-the-fort till next month.

 

[EMSeppo]

Planning to have next Capture the Fort event on Saturday, July 9th @ 8:00 PM PST. What do you guys think? I would like to see a commitment from other active units besides $C$ to show up. If you don't, then you should really have no reason to complain about not having PvP based events.

Also, I am actively reconsidering the earlier decision to not having items drop during the event.

 

[SuperKen]

I would like to see a commitment from other active units besides $C$ to show up. If you don't, then you should really have no reason to complain about not having PvP based events.

Quoted for truth. I guess most of the complaining was coming from PvPers, but it's a tad disappointing to see that most of the other groups not coming to play when goodies aren't involved.

Also, I am actively reconsidering the earlier decision to not having items drop during the event.

Worth a shot, I guess. We'll be coming out to play either way.

 

[Cyanide_Mage]

Also, I am actively reconsidering the earlier decision to not having items drop during the event.

Didn't wanna say I told you so but I did say back at the town hall that nobody would show up past the first holding of the event unless something was droped :/

 

[Lord Frodo]

Also, I am actively reconsidering the earlier decision to not having items drop during the event.

Didn't wanna say I told you so but I did say back at the town hall that nobody would show up past the first holding of the event unless something was droped :/

I am sorry but you should not have to resort to bribery to get them to an EM Event that is based on PvP. If they do not want to do the event and if nobody shows then do away with it and think long and hard before doing any more events in Fel. If you do decide to use bribery then you need to bribe EVERYONE that shows up to any event no matter what or where it is.

 

[SuperKen]

Lord Frodo, tons of the Trammel events already have items drop. Many people show up to Trammel event in the hopes of having items drop. I believe someone posted before that the rate of item drops at Trammel events is around 30%?

We PvPers on this shard specifically requested for no items to be dropped, ever.

The Item Drop issue has been discussed elsewhere but don't drag us Fel folks into it. No more events in Fel because only a few people show up when items don't drop? Ridiculous.

Try announcing that no items will drop, ever, for any Trammel events. I daresay Cartel have shown up, religiously, to attend these Capture the Fort events to show our support in higher numbers than Trammel players who aren't there at Trammel events for an item drop.

You want to make an issue of Item Drops, be my guest. I give away so called expensive rares. I'm against Item Drops myself. But bring it up in another thread and leave your personal feelings about Fel out of this.

You suggesting that Fel events be stopped completely because people won't show up because there are no item drops rubs me the wrong way. We have never asked for items, and we have requested since the beginning to not have items drop. We're of purer spirit than you think, and your suggestion to kill off Fel events altogether just goes to show you've little to no regard for the greater community as a whole.

Elder EM Seppo designed this event for us PvPers. By and large, we have faithfully attended everyone of them, despite the other groups on Baja being reluctant to do the same. We're not in it for the items; most of us make our own money. I'd lay a wager that it's mostly Trammel folks who solely attend events for the loot on this shard.

Elder EM Seppo took out a bit of his own time to set this up. We've had folks from other shards tell us how cool it is that he's done this for us. We're on a few different shards (Baja being home, of course) and we've seen firsthand how most EMs on other shards completely disregard the PvPers.

There's space enough here for all of us. If you don't want to attend Fel events, that's fine with us. We trust that we will continue to give Elder EM Seppo our support and he will reward us by throwing us a bone once in a while. We'd never ask for more than our fair share, and we don't even grumble all that much that 90% of events are held in Trammel. Why should we? We chose for ourselves to play in Fel. We have the option of attending Trammel events. You also have the option to attend Fel events.

Canceling all Fel events seems to indicate that your only concern for events is the item drop, and you worry that once items are being dropped in Fel events, you won't be able to get your share. Correct me if I'm wrong, I do not mean to offend. Because I've heard good arguments for and against item drops, but I've rarely encountered someone who said all events in Fel should stop that didn't have some kind of bias beforehand. By your same logic, shouldn't Fel itself be scrapped as well?

Fel events are fun and exciting and replace CPU intelligence with that of creative humans. Few things beat a good rush against enemy defenses, where one can almost see the morale of an attacking force as if it were onscreen data. Organization, communication, and a few daredevil risktakers can change the outcome of any battle. There are no statistics in Fel; no remaining hit points on a super monster or luck suits or pet skills.

Anything can happen in Fel and in that seemingly random chaos are players like you and me, who by pushing a few buttons and using a few macros, are stretching the very boundaries of what this game allows us to do.

 

[EMSeppo]

I am sorry but you should not have to resort to bribery to get them to an EM Event that is based on PvP. If they do not want to do the event and if nobody shows then do away with it and think long and hard before doing any more events in Fel. If you do decide to use bribery then you need to bribe EVERYONE that shows up to any event no matter what or where it is.

Currently, I had promised to not drop items during this event because it was so requested by many of the "hardcore" PvPers. However, lot of other players, especially the "non-hardcore" PvPers, have indicated that they would be more inclined to be involved if there was an opportunity of a reward.

As such, I have decided to make this event same as all of the other events, meaning that there might or might not be some type of a reward involved.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Were you there at the meeting when this was first talked about? NO
There was one, let me repeat that, ONE PvPer (read post #16) there and Seppo stated that no items would be dropped for this event and now

Originally Posted by EMSeppo
Also, I am actively reconsidering the earlier decision to not having items drop during the event.

Well IMHO Cyanide_Mage was right and now Seppo needs to bribe the rest of the PvPers to come out and play.

You need to go and search some of my old posts and you will find out that I am against random item drops at any event. If you want to give an item for being at any event then make it an item that all players get at the end of an event, like a sash or book or whatever. I go to all the events that I am able to and I have 0, ZERO, random drop items from them, that is not the reason I goto them. I am tired of this give me BS and EMs creating ubber rares just to get people to come out and play. Oh and I have been to events in Fel also and I have the death robes to prove it. So please come off your high horse, Yes your Guild may be there, but how many others are? Well, must not be enough when our own EM says he may have to use bribery to get the other PvPer out to play. Gee why is that?

 

[Cyanide_Mage]

Were you there at the meeting when this was first talked about? NO
There was one, let me repeat that, ONE PvPer (read post #16) there and Seppo stated that no items would be dropped for this event and now Well IMHO Cyanide_Mage was right and now Seppo needs to bribe the rest of the PvPers to come out and play.

You need to go and search some of my old posts and you will find out that I am against random item drops at any event. If you want to give an item for being at any event then make it an item that all players get at the end of an event, like a sash or book or whatever. I go to all the events that I am able to and I have 0, ZERO, random drop items from them, that is not the reason I goto them. I am tired of this give me BS and EMs creating ubber rares just to get people to come out and play. Oh and I have been to events in Fel also and I have the death robes to prove it. So please come off your high horse, Yes your Guild may be there, but how many others are? Well, must not be enough when our own EM says he may have to use bribery to get the other PvPer out to play. Gee why is that?

I made my initial statement at the town hall knowing that on baja there is a solid one full time pvp guild and a handful of guilds who mostly pvm and only pvp when they have too. The only way to get the other guilds other than Cartel off the sidelines and into the fight is to offer them trinkets or at least the chance at getting a trinket. Like it or not this is what uo is and has become.

 

[SuperKen]

My high horse?

You're the one suggesting that all Fel events be cancelled!

You won't ever find anyone in my guild seriously talking about cancelling all Trammel events because there are random drops.

Like it or not, flippant and careless remarks like yours are going to be taken as representing the majority of opinion because not many speak out. You might think it's just your opinion when you say that all Fel events should be seriously considered before ever done again, but when it's a thread like this with just about only 2-3 other posters representing all of Baja, it will sound like the voice of Baja. Worse still, you voice your opinion as if you represent all of Fel.

I don't pretend to know your record; and for all I know, you may very well be one of those players who invests time in the community and attends events out of interest. But that's just you. Do you deny that there are many, many others who come out only for item drops, who even shard hop to do so? Don't talk about a high horse when you're a solitary example and yet you post as if your opinion should represent many.

P.S. Pfft, meeting? We were contacted well before any Town Hall meeting about a possible event like this and made our opinion clear that we didn't want item drops. We also voiced it at various other times. Excuse us for not showing up to Town Hall meetings.

 

[SuperKen]

Currently, I had promised to not drop items during this event because it was so requested by many of the "hardcore" PvPers. However, lot of other players, especially the "non-hardcore" PvPers, have indicated that they would be more inclined to be involved if there was an opportunity of a reward.

As such, I have decided to make this event same as all of the other events, meaning that there might or might not be some type of a reward involved.

Oh no, we should just cancel all Fel events altogether rather than have them on equal footing with Trammel events for greater participation.

/sarcasm

EDIT: You want a real item drop solution? How about EMs create so much junk that rares collectors simply stop having the money to buy it all. Have events that drop 50 different trinkets in sets of 3, and do this on every shard for long enough that it's just not "rare" anymore. Do item replication events where people show up and request a particular rare.

All of these "rares" are worthless. They have no mods, no specials. They are mostly just re-colored items with restyled names. In enough time, the entire rares market will be inundated with so many differently colored pieces of crap that actually do nothing and are not desirable for actual usage that the rates on the pieces will drop and people will no longer care.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

The way I see it, everyone has the ability to participate in tram related events. IF a single guild is the only one involved in zerging up an event in Fel, who is really having fun participating? Seppo makes some strong points regarding the one guild participation.

As an active roleplayer, PvPer, and rares collector...I tend to see things from all sides. However, my main thoughts still seem to revolve around the idea of everyone having fun. Again, when one guild has the ability to stave off participation from the rest of the shard...who is really having fun?

Items? Who cares? I would go regardless...I like events.

 

[SuperKen]

Why don't we try this then? Cartel doesn't show up.

Everyone else is invited to fight for it, and there's a prize at the end too.

We can see how that would go, if it's the dominance of one guild that is the main issue that blocks others from having fun.

 

[EMSeppo]

This thread is going way off-topic. Please, do not air general grievances related to rewards in here. If you are venting off about whatever happened/happens in XYZ event, then you should not be doing that in this thread.

Everyone does things for a reward. Only thing that differs is the definition of a reward. For some people a feeling of a community suffices as a reward, for others it is nice to get a trinket now and then. World revolves around the release of Serotonin and other chemicals! So, lets not get into name-calling and highbrowing.

I was not going to drop an "item reward" for Capture the Fort because I thought I could come up with a compelling non-item reward for people to compete for. However, thus far it has been quite challenging to do so without adversely affecting other game mechanisms. The ones I have received so far (such as, friending someone from the winning side to the fort) cannot be implemented due to various reasons. I have even failed in updating the signage on the gate to indicate the name of the winning team.

I am still open for ideas that would make the location actually useful to "capture" without the use of trinkets. If you would like to contribute along that road, then I would deeply appreciate your efforts. So, lets stick to that.

On another note, I am also not quite convinced that the idea is a "failure" without using an item reward. From my discussions with several members of SI and other guilds, the advertisement of the event has not been done properly either. Currently, all our in-game event announcers are based in Trammel and that might be an issue. It would be nice to have contact information of active representatives of Fel-based guilds who like to participate in PvP. I used to have that in the past but it is obsolete now.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Time for some constructive suggestions?

1. Suggestions for how to get the word out -

• contact details for main pvp guild leaders?
• or a town crier in a prominent, non faction, spot in Fel? Jhelom by the pit for eg?

2. Suggestions for acknowledgement of the winners.

• Could each guild have a banner style/colour to choose that would be recognised as theirs and placed on the outside wall?
• A 'war chest' for the winning guild containing consumable supplies such as potions, bandies, regs etc, suggest what else would be acceptable in it.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Time for some constructive suggestions?

1. Suggestions for how to get the word out -

• contact details for main pvp guild leaders?
• or a town crier in a prominent, non faction, spot in Fel? Jhelom by the pit for eg?

How about a special town crier at West Brit bank (Fel and Tram) with a sign of the owners/guild name of the new owners of the fort next to it.

2. Suggestions for acknowledgement of the winners.

• Could each guild have a banner style/colour to choose that would be recognised as theirs and placed on the outside wall?
• A 'war chest' for the winning guild containing consumable supplies such as potions, bandies, regs etc, suggest what else would be acceptable in it.

A one way portal from the new owners guild house/house to somewhere inside the fort. Would have to be moved everytime the fort changes owners.

A NPC vendor/vendors inside the fort that would sell consumable supplies such as potions, bandies, regs etc, suggest what else would be acceptable in it. Maybe next to where they are teleported in.

 

[PASmountaindew]

NO MORE TROLLING!!! Keep this thread on topic and no more bickering. Consider this your one and only warning in this thread. If you choose to not follow the rules then there will be consequences.

 

[SuperKen]

Suggestions:

1. No team can comprise of more than 10 players.

2. No team can win more than 4x in a row.

3. Each team must follow a certain pre-set party limit (for example) of 3 mages, 1 tamer, 1 archer and 1 free class. Larger teams need to follow the same ratio and all teams must register in advance, with late substitutions allowed only if the class type is the same or similar.

4. All participants are enrolled 30 minutes prior to the start of the event, then team captains are chosen/volunteered, a dice is rolled, and the other participants are chosen one by one, from the pool of all participants, regardless of guild/faction affiliation.

Option 4 opens up a whole different can of worms though; communication will be difficult and backstabbing is almost bound to happen, especially to those in Factions. On the other hand, it would be pretty cool for Baja to have a monthly event where the PvP guilds put aside their differences and worked together. It would definitely be something unique to Baja (haven't checked any sources on this).

5. Only a pre-registered participant on each team may be allowed to change the color of the flag.

6. Any team that occupies the same position for ten minutes will have random monsters spawned on them to limit fielding and defensive chokes.

This, of course, would be up to the EMs but rather than creating mega monsters that will end up attacking other groups as well, it might be more prudent to create masses of easily defeated but highly disrupting spawn, such as Bake Kitsunes or Flesh Golems (Flesh Golems use bleed attacks which are highly disruptive against non-Protection fielding mages).

 

[EMSeppo]

Thank you for all the suggestions. I just got back from vacation today. Some of these suggestions will definitely make it into future Capture the Fortress events.

The one tonight will be held at the stated time.

 

[Grey Eagle of Baja]

Ultima Online started out as a PvP game . It still remains (IMO) by far the best and most diverse pvp of all MMO's
I try to pvp almost every day (though after all these years I still suck).

We should all be thankful that EM Seppo is making this event for us.
Since Cartel seems to be the only guild that wants to particpate in the event, my suggestion is we split up into 2 separte guilds for the night. That way we can all enjoy a night of fun without the so called "zerg"

Again thank you EM Seppo, this is really great.


Noxx M1S (Menace of Society) Minax Factions

 

[Manticore]

Suggestions:

1. No team can comprise of more than 10 players.

2. No team can win more than 4x in a row.

3. Each team must follow a certain pre-set party limit (for example) of 3 mages, 1 tamer, 1 archer and 1 free class. Larger teams need to follow the same ratio and all teams must register in advance, with late substitutions allowed only if the class type is the same or similar.

4. All participants are enrolled 30 minutes prior to the start of the event, then team captains are chosen/volunteered, a dice is rolled, and the other participants are chosen one by one, from the pool of all participants, regardless of guild/faction affiliation.

Option 4 opens up a whole different can of worms though; communication will be difficult and backstabbing is almost bound to happen, especially to those in Factions. On the other hand, it would be pretty cool for Baja to have a monthly event where the PvP guilds put aside their differences and worked together. It would definitely be something unique to Baja (haven't checked any sources on this).

5. Only a pre-registered participant on each team may be allowed to change the color of the flag.

6. Any team that occupies the same position for ten minutes will have random monsters spawned on them to limit fielding and defensive chokes.

This, of course, would be up to the EMs but rather than creating mega monsters that will end up attacking other groups as well, it might be more prudent to create masses of easily defeated but highly disrupting spawn, such as Bake Kitsunes or Flesh Golems (Flesh Golems use bleed attacks which are highly disruptive against non-Protection fielding mages).

I would add to that, no-speed hacking programs by any player. Not pointing fingures at anyone or any guild but it is a known fact that fel guilds throughout all shards are heavily invested in these type of programs to give them the edge. With the computer set up I have and the amount of money I spent on it, running on a T1 line, watching myself being chased down in fel no matter how fast I run tells me that they are using additional programs that I am not. It is unfortunate that UO said many times they will crack down on this but I have yet heard or seen any difference. So of course when Trammel players come to fel they get slaughtered and loose interests over time.

So back to the main point of this thread, if no other guilds participate in this type of event except the one then shouldn't the 10 hours per week paid by our subscription fees be spent towards the majority? Just a thought. The idea is great perhaps this shard is not the right place to have it. This type of event would do very well on Atlantic or Great Lakes where they have a more balanced faction system.

 

[EMSeppo]

Manticore, this event takes little to no time investment as everything is already setup. It only involves opening and closing the gate. However, you are right, if participation does not take place then there is little point in continuing with it. I will probably give it one more shot.

The robes have been given to all of the teams who have signed up so far, including SI, M!S, and KR. They are just things crafted by myself.

But, maybe you are right, I am biased against shutting this event down because it is an idea that I feel like it should work. Maybe, it is time to call a spade a spade.

 

[Lt.Snuggles]

seppo lets give it 1 more run, ill make it worth it! this was a great idea from the get go, it's really more of a way to get everybody involved in everything. i want everybody to attend the next 1. just to get a feel of it. even sk will be from china! dont let sk show anybody up!

 

[PASmountaindew]

This thread is for discussing the event and how to make it better or what needs to change. IT IS NOT FOR POINTING FINGERS AT WHO MAY OR MAY NOT BE USING SCRIPTS OR TRICKING PLAYERS TO SECRET LOCATIONS TO KILL THEM OR ANY OF THAT. i HAVE ALREADY WARNED FOLKS IN THIS THREAD ABOUT THIS AND HERE IS A SECOND WARNING. You will notice a few posts are gone because the authors could not follow the rules.

 

[Yalp]

well my post was deleted and I pointed out that during the last event only 1 guild participated and that has been a trend since the first one of these events was held. .. so it's time to have an honest discussion about EM events being held for 1 guild. The fact that this guild has a name and has been used isn't pointing fingers.. it's stating a fact... made doubly interesting because EM event items are being handed out to "winners of a non-event event"....is this also something that should be treated as a taboo subject because it might offend either an EM or a board mod?

 

[Cyanide_Mage]

Maybe the EM should take a little different approach Since its clearly been proven numerous times that others are too scared to come to the event the event could be modified in the following way:

Make the fort controlled by mobs from the beginning. There can be warriors/lieutenants/captains/and a king. Once all mobs are dispatched then a 20 min timer can be started once a team takes control of the fort. Do what other events in trammel do, named mobs could have a particular item that drops for them. Winners own the fort for another month.

I don't see why an event should be totally done away with because a group of people try to dictate that "Not enough show up." Implementing this change would cater to everyone. PVM for the mobs, PvP cause its in fel, and item drops for those who like to show up and "win" something If you still choose not to show up then that's on you, no complaints.

 

[SuperKen]

well my post was deleted and I pointed out that during the last event only 1 guild participated and that has been a trend since the first one of these events was held. .. so it's time to have an honest discussion about EM events being held for 1 guild. The fact that this guild has a name and has been used isn't pointing fingers.. it's stating a fact... made doubly interesting because EM event items are being handed out to "winners of a non-event event"....is this also something that should be treated as a taboo subject because it might offend either an EM or a board mod?

I agree that it is not fair for one guild to keep winning...but this is an open event that all are invited to participate. Even the Girl Scouts made a run out.

A change to the event is needed to make it fair so that there are more "winners" a la true Trammel style. I don't think anyone has a problem with tweaks being made to the event.

Speaking on behalf of the guild that keeps winning: we don't want the win either. We want a fight, we want people to show up, we want it to be a see-saw battle. At this point, we'd rather lose and have a fun fight than just walk in and see no competition.

I don't think it's fair to point us out as being sole recipients of rewards; we've done nothing wrong except win. Should the Yankees be banned from baseball or the game of baseball abolished completely because they keep winning the World Series? There are winners and losers in life and while that may not necessarily apply in Trammel, it definitely should in Fel.

I am unaware that there were any actual item drops, but we'll give them back when the Yankees give back their trophies.

Most events are held in Trammel; us PvPers only get this one. Talk should be along the lines of improving the event, not getting rid of it. That would leave the PvPers without events at all which is rather more vindictive than progressive.

I question what motive people have in banning the last true event that PvPers have; is it not true that if you don't like it, don't attend? Elder EM Seppo has been open in suggesting that changes can be made to appeal to all, why must the talk always center on abolishing the event or even all future Fel PvP events? Jealousy, revenge, bias?

I do agree that it's unfair to all that nobody else wins.

I'm just not convinced that everything needs to be fair.

 

[Nistra]

removed by me

 

[Manticore]

No fingers pointing at anyone here!!

I am sticking with the topic:

If the majority doesn't want to participate in this type of event. Then why have it?

I absolutely agree that not everything needs to be fair.

 

[SuperKen]

This is true, but it still boils down to numbers..... "they" popped a harry with 10 people. Yes they lost it to the people who won the ctf. BUT "they" (me) scouted the ctf and counted 17 people (was later confirmed by a winning member that the count was closer to 20) and the whole thing fielded to bleep. I watched most of it.. got revealed a couple of times. Whether "the winning guild" likes to admit it or not they are the only ones left on baja that can pull those kind of numbers most guilds just can't.

As for the not knowing thing......we've already SAID we knew, we choose to do something else.

Oh, I was referring to posters above that changes should be made to broadcast the times more publicly because people weren't aware when it started.

I've been told that y'all don't pull the same kinda strength right now.

We haven't heard much from the formerly big guild yet in the way of suggestions. What would y'all like to see changed?

I still don't think getting rid of the event because people don't show is the answer. There were no item drops anyways, so what does it matter if one guild wins it? So far, it's only been bragging rights and the PvP guild can't even have that when no one shows.

 

[EMSeppo]

Rewards: If I did not make it clear before, I have not dropped a single event reward at these events so far. We have only discussed the possibility of doing so in here. I considered dropping a reward at the last CTF, but then changed my mind. Team robes crafted by me cannot be considered in the same category as normal event rewards. I have done that often for various other events in the past. The rules regarding such items are completely different than the standard event loot. I know that people claim in general chat that they got "mad loot." I would advise you to take such claims with a truck load of salt.

Tinkering: Regarding, the team suggestions. That could work out okay in theory. It could also encourage individuals who are not that good at PvP or don't have the required backup to participate. However, I am not too sure how good it would work technically due to guild/faction rules. What about having a rule where a guild cannot field more than a finite amount of people? If all the major guilds can agree on this, then it could prove to be the easiest fix for now.

Time investment: As I mentioned before, it takes insignificant amount of time to do this event on a monthly basis. Additionally, I do not agree with the suggestion of comparing the numbers with a standard trammel event. In theory, an event where I preannounce that I am going to drop an uber loot on a mob in Trammel will consistently see the highest amount of attendance. Not just CTF, but other projects like Town guards, High council, etc. would be hard to justify based on such a comparison. I am pretty sure that all of you will agree that its not a great idea to heavily rely on such tricks in the long run. I have to nurture all different types of communities on Baja. If CTF is not going to work out, then it is fine. But, there will be something else targeted towards the PvP audience. However, starting another initiative from scratch requires far more time investment. The reason why I try to salvage this one.

 

[PASmountaindew]

is this also something that should be treated as a taboo subject because it might offend either an EM or a board mod?

I am the one and only forum mod in charge of the EM discussion forum for Baja and I don't take any offense seeing as I do not play on Baja Shard.

 

[SuperKen]

No one's blaming the big guild. The onus of success should not be reliant on another guild coming out against their will to participate in an event that is beyond their ken. The first CTF was a blast but it was because the Knights guild came out with a plan and numbers. I personally maintain that if you don't want to show up, please don't.

But please don't try to dictate what should or shouldn't happen if you don't intend to participate.

Elder EM Seppo has always been around to field questions and take comments. The big guild has had many opportunities to speak to him regarding other issues but CTF wasn't brought up because the event is not in their natural interests. Rather unfair to bring it up now as evidence of some supposed bias...you reap what you sow.

Talk of the PvP guild loving the event as is is off the mark. Do you think we want to show up to fight monster spawn?

Accusations of not having anything constructive to say runs both ways; I have seen little to no suggestions on either side. Don't be afraid to speak up in the back. Suggestions may be shot down but they might also lead others to build on them.

I think it's perfectly fair to pre-organize teams of, say, 10. I also like Cyanide Mage's idea of capturing the fort from monster spawn.

Maybe there could be 2-3 forts to capture, each with their own individual spawn to deal with. Players may go over to other forts to PvP/kill the other team, but risk having the constant monster spawn in their own fort multiply beyond saving. So ideally the forts would require 7-8 players to deal with and successfully capture, and 2-3 PvPers can go to mess with other forts. Since there are multiple forts, first team to capture it wins.

If that were the case, Vent communication would not be necessary (not too hard to tell who the more bloodthirsty players are) and teams could even be chosen at random or by team captain. A team of all tamers might be good for the spawn, but not great in PvP.

The PvP guild could also split themselves up for this and be separate teams.

This thread is constantly on the verge of being derailed and much of it is due to in-game animosity that has found its way here. Have a little more respect for Elder EM Seppo and yourselves.

 

[Nistra]

same

 

[SuperKen]

WHY is only 1 guild participating?
WHAT can be done to increase participation?
HOW do I find out what those who don't want to participate think about this?
WHEN can I implement changes to promote a more successful event?

WHY is only 1 guild participating?

This is a PvP event and there's only one PvP guild with both the numbers and desire to participate.

WHAT can be done to increase participation?

Decrease the amount of PvPers to be more balanced with the amount of PvMers who would show up. This is difficult because the PvMers are risk averse and usually show up either for profit or fun (i.e., not constantly dying for no reason other to buff up another's ego).

Or

Increase the amount of rewards available to those who participate to make the risk worth taking.

Or

Ban the winning guild from appearing or place restrictions on them. FYI, the PvP guild has already agreed to have restrictions placed on themselves (such as limiting their numbers or not even appearing) in order to raise participation at this event. The offer was sent via PM and is a more generous offer that those who claim the PvP guild want nothing changed and just like to keep winning.

HOW do I find out what those who don't want to participate think about this?

This, to me, is the weakest question. Let me explain.

The PvP guild does not contact Elder EM Seppo. Rumors and accusations of such have always been false and are usually downright laughably silly. The PvP guild has, instead, sent emails through the website or PMs just like anyone else can. I do not remember how exactly the idea was brought to our attention, but we put in an effort to participate fully.

I recall when the fort was being designed, we chanced upon it in our spawn scouting. We didn't know what it was either.

Later, there was talk on General chat and on Stratics that the Fort had holes in it, and people were invited to come and figure them out. At this time, it was actually mostly members of the BRPA and other non PvP themed individuals who came out to check the security of the base. I myself also showed up out of curiosity and to help out.

Basically, no one was aware beforehand what was going to go on.

So to answer the question of HOW should guilds and individuals be contacted smacks of the "entitled" attitude that defines most Trammelites. You shouldn't expect to be contacted. You should put in the work yourself to make your voice heard via legitimate channels.

Those who wish to participate or take interest in the event have always had the option of leaving their opinion. Those whose only desire is to derail the event should be ignored.

WHEN can I implement changes to promote a more successful event?

Changes are implemented immediately. For those of us who have participated in every CTF, we have seen the changes and know that Elder EM Seppo is constantly tinkering with the formula. We have sat in defense and been attacked by monster spawn before. However, at this time, it was usually a single uber monster.

At the last CTF, several new types of monsters were introduced that were disruptive towards field casting mages, as per my suggestion up above. I did not expect it to be tried out, but it was. Other suggestions might take longer to implement, but small ones such as the type of monster spawn were made right away.

Instead of doubting the process, take a step forward and make some actual suggestions and you will see for yourself the tinkering that is going on to make this event more accessible to all.

 

[SuperKen]

I don't think it would be too much to ask of Elder EM Seppo. Perhaps you could leave the contact info or the person(s) he should contact that you feel would have some valuable input on the event? I think via PM would probably be best.

Other guilds should do as well, after all, no one should be saying that this event was only designed for the PvP guild or the big guild to join against their better judgment.

If the idea to mix up the teams is taken up, I hope that we can see lots of people coming out that just want to participate and thus the bias on party lines on all sides would simmer down a bit.

As for Manticore...there were no item drops. The robes were given out the first CTF to all sides to those who participated (the Knights, the Misfits, the PvP guild and the big guild). There has been nothing else since.

As for the unfortunate event that happened afterwards regarding a "hidden museum"...that sounds like regular Fel trolling in game and has little to do with this event.

 

[Manticore]

As for Manticore...there were no item drops. The robes were given out the first CTF to all sides to those who participated (the Knights, the Misfits, the PvP guild and the big guild). There has been nothing else since.

As for the unfortunate event that happened afterwards regarding a "hidden museum"...that sounds like regular Fel trolling in game and has little to do with this event.

See, this part here should be removed as PASmountaindew stated clearly no more talking about the specifics of things not related to the topic at hand. Althought the sequence of events that lead to that particular incident lets just say what you put down is incorrect. But I am following the rules here no pointing figures


But back to topic at hand. Wanna make it fair? Simple, make it an all naked CTF and everyone will join.

or

I was at the GL event today and they are also experiencing a very similar problem, i.e. the dominating guild there "DC" is controlling all Fel events. Now wouldn't be awesome if there was a X-shard challenge between DC and Cartels for the CTF? Hell, I'd pay to come see that event. Or HOT guild of Atlnatic vs Cartel? That way, no more bickering about unfair this or unfair that it would be just a lot of fun.

 

[SuperKen]

I was at the GL event today and they are also experiencing a very similar problem, i.e. the dominating guild there "DC" is controlling all Fel events. Now wouldn't be awesome if there was a X-shard challenge between DC and Cartels for the CTF? Hell, I'd pay to come see that event. Or HOT guild of Atlnatic vs Cartel? That way, no more bickering about unfair this or unfair that it would be just a lot of fun.

Any ideas on steps they are taking on that shard to deal with the one guild domination problem? It would be an interesting compare and contrast.

We've fought BC and DC before, on Great Lakes, but that was a few years back. I think it would be fun to fight them again as a guild. They've grown in number and have less of the drama/leadership issues they had at that time.

I've never seen HOT fight. I know that they are one of the biggest names out on East Coast, but we've only had a few members play over there. I don't like to pass judgment on a guild that I haven't seen with my own eyes.

Either way, whatever brings fights, even ones we lose, is more fun for us. I've had xsharding friends and PvP folks on other shards comment how cool it is that we have this event, but that hasn't exactly translated into people coming over here to participate in it. Maybe some day?